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	<title>Comments on: Rumor: Public Option To Be Left Out Of Merged Senate Bill</title>
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	<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/16/rumor-public-option-to-be-left-out-of-merged-senate-bill/</link>
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		<title>By: vmckimmey</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/16/rumor-public-option-to-be-left-out-of-merged-senate-bill/#comment-336</link>
		<dc:creator>vmckimmey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 14:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=113#comment-336</guid>
		<description>Hey Jane, how about doing a progressive senate block.  how many progressive senators would it take, joining the Republicans to defeat the Baucus bill?  Why not Whip It?  Lets get Senators to take the pledge, no public option, no bill!

it worked in the House, why not the Senate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jane, how about doing a progressive senate block.  how many progressive senators would it take, joining the Republicans to defeat the Baucus bill?  Why not Whip It?  Lets get Senators to take the pledge, no public option, no bill!</p>
<p>it worked in the House, why not the Senate?</p>
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		<title>By: bmull</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/16/rumor-public-option-to-be-left-out-of-merged-senate-bill/#comment-325</link>
		<dc:creator>bmull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 03:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=113#comment-325</guid>
		<description>The NY Times is allowing itself to be used as a propaganda vehicle for the White House. Anonymous administration sources should not be used to undermine people like Tom Harkin who are on-the-record supporters of reform. Every time you read a story like Herszenhorn&#039;s your next call should be to the NY Times public editor to complain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The NY Times is allowing itself to be used as a propaganda vehicle for the White House. Anonymous administration sources should not be used to undermine people like Tom Harkin who are on-the-record supporters of reform. Every time you read a story like Herszenhorn&#8217;s your next call should be to the NY Times public editor to complain.</p>
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		<title>By: RU4862</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/16/rumor-public-option-to-be-left-out-of-merged-senate-bill/#comment-321</link>
		<dc:creator>RU4862</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 02:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=113#comment-321</guid>
		<description>I rather there be NO bill than some watered down, bull shit bill. The DemoCRAPS are going to feel the backlash from the base in the 2010 midterm elections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I rather there be NO bill than some watered down, bull shit bill. The DemoCRAPS are going to feel the backlash from the base in the 2010 midterm elections.</p>
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		<title>By: TomThumb</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/16/rumor-public-option-to-be-left-out-of-merged-senate-bill/#comment-299</link>
		<dc:creator>TomThumb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 22:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=113#comment-299</guid>
		<description>Check this out. New CBO report out today estimates that the House bills which include a public option and which cover 95% of the people, will run about 900 billion.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/10/house_health_bill_trimmed_by_3.html?hpid=topnews

This totally takes the steam out of Max Baucus&#039;s cheap crapola, non-public-optioned bill. What he was selling was &#039;cheapness&#039;. Now that the CBO report for the House bill is out, Max&#039;s argument is moot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check this out. New CBO report out today estimates that the House bills which include a public option and which cover 95% of the people, will run about 900 billion.</p>
<p><a href="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/10/house_health_bill_trimmed_by_3.html?hpid=topnews" rel="nofollow">http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/10/house_health_bill_trimmed_by_3.html?hpid=topnews</a></p>
<p>This totally takes the steam out of Max Baucus&#8217;s cheap crapola, non-public-optioned bill. What he was selling was &#8216;cheapness&#8217;. Now that the CBO report for the House bill is out, Max&#8217;s argument is moot.</p>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/16/rumor-public-option-to-be-left-out-of-merged-senate-bill/#comment-295</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=113#comment-295</guid>
		<description>No. Tosh is just mistrustful and so am I. What reason do I have at this point to trust either the Administration, or Harry Reid?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. Tosh is just mistrustful and so am I. What reason do I have at this point to trust either the Administration, or Harry Reid?</p>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/16/rumor-public-option-to-be-left-out-of-merged-senate-bill/#comment-294</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=113#comment-294</guid>
		<description>You bet. Progressives need to defeat a bill in the Senate that has no PO. If the President wants a bill moved out of the Senate, have him get Harry Reid get rid of the filibuster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You bet. Progressives need to defeat a bill in the Senate that has no PO. If the President wants a bill moved out of the Senate, have him get Harry Reid get rid of the filibuster.</p>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/16/rumor-public-option-to-be-left-out-of-merged-senate-bill/#comment-293</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=113#comment-293</guid>
		<description>The money a PO would save annually is peanuts compared to what HR 676 could save if it were passed. It&#039;s likely that enhanced Medicare for All would save $700-800 Billion per year, or $7 - 8 Trillion over ten years compared to the present system. The PO would only save a small fraction of that figure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The money a PO would save annually is peanuts compared to what HR 676 could save if it were passed. It&#8217;s likely that enhanced Medicare for All would save $700-800 Billion per year, or $7 &#8211; 8 Trillion over ten years compared to the present system. The PO would only save a small fraction of that figure.</p>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/16/rumor-public-option-to-be-left-out-of-merged-senate-bill/#comment-292</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=113#comment-292</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s true, but I think that this reform process has been very different and that more Senators are stubborn in their support for the PO. Btw, only one Senator can torpedo a UC agreement. So, Bernie can do that by himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s true, but I think that this reform process has been very different and that more Senators are stubborn in their support for the PO. Btw, only one Senator can torpedo a UC agreement. So, Bernie can do that by himself.</p>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/16/rumor-public-option-to-be-left-out-of-merged-senate-bill/#comment-290</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=113#comment-290</guid>
		<description>This diary and a number of others at Firedog Lake today frame the coming phase of the legislative process in terms of the need for 60 votes to get cloture and pass the PO. For example:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Left out of this story is the fact that any amendment to the bill on the Senate floor would in all likelihood need a cloture vote – in other words, 60 votes – in order to pass. Therefore the placement of the public option inside or outside of the merged bill is crucial, as there are probably not 60 votes to either insert it or remove it from the legislation. So allowing an amendment as a “compromise” is not really a compromise at all.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

While all that is true, it is only so because of the existence of the filibuster in Senate procedure. However, it only takes 50 votes + the VP to get rid of the filibuster through using the procedure known as &quot;the nuclear option.&quot; 

This possibility is often dismissed by progressive bloggers, with the cursory remark that the &quot;nuclear option&quot; won&#039;t be used by the Democrats, and the bloggers then go on to talk about scenarios involving 60 votes. But, I think this is a mistake. We should not be writing only about what is likely to happen or what may happen, or whether progressives in Congress should oppose a UC agreement or not. We should also be writing about what it is possible for the Democrats and Harry Reid to do, and what they should be doing.

I think this last involves the issue of their decision to live with the filibuster both in the health care reform area, and also other legislative areas, and therefore to continue to live with the burden of always having to corral 60 votes before they can legislate something.

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;This decision is a decision to overturn the results of the last election. It is a decision to empower the Republicans and the blue dogs to block reform. It is a decision to fail at reform and to break the promises the Democratic Party made to the American people. &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;

Harry Reid&#039;s and the Democrats&#039; failure to get rid of the filibuster and to legislate effective reform is the big story about these last months of the health care reform effort, and perhaps even of President Obama&#039;s first term. And it is a story that most of us progressive bloggers are ignoring, as previously we ignored the President&#039;s taking single-payer off the table, and talked up the public option instead. 

What we should be doing now is generating a deafening blog chorus about the Democrats having the power to remove the 60 vote requirement in favor of the constitutional 51 vote one, by getting rid of the filibuster once and for all. But we are not doing that. Instead we are accepting the legitimacy of the filibuster and discussing the arcana of navigating the PO through what may prove to be multiple 60-vote barriers, before even a very weakened PO can finally emerge. What kind of progressivism is this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This diary and a number of others at Firedog Lake today frame the coming phase of the legislative process in terms of the need for 60 votes to get cloture and pass the PO. For example:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Left out of this story is the fact that any amendment to the bill on the Senate floor would in all likelihood need a cloture vote – in other words, 60 votes – in order to pass. Therefore the placement of the public option inside or outside of the merged bill is crucial, as there are probably not 60 votes to either insert it or remove it from the legislation. So allowing an amendment as a “compromise” is not really a compromise at all.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>While all that is true, it is only so because of the existence of the filibuster in Senate procedure. However, it only takes 50 votes + the VP to get rid of the filibuster through using the procedure known as &#8220;the nuclear option.&#8221; </p>
<p>This possibility is often dismissed by progressive bloggers, with the cursory remark that the &#8220;nuclear option&#8221; won&#8217;t be used by the Democrats, and the bloggers then go on to talk about scenarios involving 60 votes. But, I think this is a mistake. We should not be writing only about what is likely to happen or what may happen, or whether progressives in Congress should oppose a UC agreement or not. We should also be writing about what it is possible for the Democrats and Harry Reid to do, and what they should be doing.</p>
<p>I think this last involves the issue of their decision to live with the filibuster both in the health care reform area, and also other legislative areas, and therefore to continue to live with the burden of always having to corral 60 votes before they can legislate something.</p>
<p><strong><em>This decision is a decision to overturn the results of the last election. It is a decision to empower the Republicans and the blue dogs to block reform. It is a decision to fail at reform and to break the promises the Democratic Party made to the American people. </em></strong></p>
<p>Harry Reid&#8217;s and the Democrats&#8217; failure to get rid of the filibuster and to legislate effective reform is the big story about these last months of the health care reform effort, and perhaps even of President Obama&#8217;s first term. And it is a story that most of us progressive bloggers are ignoring, as previously we ignored the President&#8217;s taking single-payer off the table, and talked up the public option instead. </p>
<p>What we should be doing now is generating a deafening blog chorus about the Democrats having the power to remove the 60 vote requirement in favor of the constitutional 51 vote one, by getting rid of the filibuster once and for all. But we are not doing that. Instead we are accepting the legitimacy of the filibuster and discussing the arcana of navigating the PO through what may prove to be multiple 60-vote barriers, before even a very weakened PO can finally emerge. What kind of progressivism is this?</p>
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		<title>By: whyknot</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/16/rumor-public-option-to-be-left-out-of-merged-senate-bill/#comment-284</link>
		<dc:creator>whyknot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=113#comment-284</guid>
		<description>Cynic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cynic.</p>
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