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	<title>Comments on: Pulling Threads: Afghanistan</title>
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	<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/18/pulling-threads-afghanistan/</link>
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		<title>By: tanbark</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/18/pulling-threads-afghanistan/#comment-531</link>
		<dc:creator>tanbark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=148#comment-531</guid>
		<description>Nationbuilding.

Because, that is what we&#039;re talking about.   

Bush couldn&#039;t do it, but he was sure enough trying it.

I don&#039;t think Obama can do it either, but the conservatives who engineered this fuckup will be delighted for him to try it, since it will, irrevocably, put a stamp of &quot;Property of Barak Obama and the Democratic Party&quot; on the misery.  
    Jacking up our committment of money and bodies MAY achieve some kind of bloody stalemate, but the other achievement, of having a lot of people who voted for the democrats last November, asking:  &quot;WTF???&quot;, will be of more moment, since, in the highest of ironies, it will likely return control of the government to the very people who created this grotesque piece of foreign policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nationbuilding.</p>
<p>Because, that is what we&#8217;re talking about.   </p>
<p>Bush couldn&#8217;t do it, but he was sure enough trying it.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Obama can do it either, but the conservatives who engineered this fuckup will be delighted for him to try it, since it will, irrevocably, put a stamp of &#8220;Property of Barak Obama and the Democratic Party&#8221; on the misery.<br />
    Jacking up our committment of money and bodies MAY achieve some kind of bloody stalemate, but the other achievement, of having a lot of people who voted for the democrats last November, asking:  &#8220;WTF???&#8221;, will be of more moment, since, in the highest of ironies, it will likely return control of the government to the very people who created this grotesque piece of foreign policy.</p>
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		<title>By: shekissesfrogs</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/18/pulling-threads-afghanistan/#comment-529</link>
		<dc:creator>shekissesfrogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=148#comment-529</guid>
		<description>

&lt;blockquote&gt;We have no reasonable mission in that region, unless its control of the natural resources and the land over which they will travel to get to us.

If that’s what we’re about then we’ll have to suppress the locals with a war, and set up bases to protect “our interests.”

Come on Obama and DOD say it. Speak the truth.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Careful what you ask for... &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175121/pepe_escobar_pipelineistan_s_ultimate_opera&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Pepe Escobar on pipelineistan&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>We have no reasonable mission in that region, unless its control of the natural resources and the land over which they will travel to get to us.</p>
<p>If that’s what we’re about then we’ll have to suppress the locals with a war, and set up bases to protect “our interests.”</p>
<p>Come on Obama and DOD say it. Speak the truth.</p></blockquote>
<p>Careful what you ask for&#8230; <a href="http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175121/pepe_escobar_pipelineistan_s_ultimate_opera" rel="nofollow">Pepe Escobar on pipelineistan</a></p>
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		<title>By: RichardKanePA</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/18/pulling-threads-afghanistan/#comment-521</link>
		<dc:creator>RichardKanePA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 05:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=148#comment-521</guid>
		<description>I think General Stanley Chrystal&#039;s grim assessment that we will lose soon unless 40,000 more troops are sent in, means there is no stalemate, we are losing.  Perhaps our major concern should be how to get out with giving al Qaeda less to cheer about.  General Chrystal never implied that victory was likely in the long run if 40,000 more troops were sent in.  

I want to reinterpret his grim honest assessment as a need to get out in a hurry.  Whether or not this is am exasperating, his message was definitely no pep talk.

Interpreting General Chrystar this way makes more sense than claiming the war is for no purpose, or even stupid,

RICHARDKANEpa.blogspot.com
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/10214</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think General Stanley Chrystal&#8217;s grim assessment that we will lose soon unless 40,000 more troops are sent in, means there is no stalemate, we are losing.  Perhaps our major concern should be how to get out with giving al Qaeda less to cheer about.  General Chrystal never implied that victory was likely in the long run if 40,000 more troops were sent in.  </p>
<p>I want to reinterpret his grim honest assessment as a need to get out in a hurry.  Whether or not this is am exasperating, his message was definitely no pep talk.</p>
<p>Interpreting General Chrystar this way makes more sense than claiming the war is for no purpose, or even stupid,</p>
<p>RICHARDKANEpa.blogspot.com<br />
<a href="http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/10214" rel="nofollow">http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/10214</a></p>
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		<title>By: Inaru</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/18/pulling-threads-afghanistan/#comment-516</link>
		<dc:creator>Inaru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=148#comment-516</guid>
		<description>Actually, Obama did put the wars in the budget, as a smart tactic for exactly the kind of &#039;more troops/bombs&#039; arguments he expected. The higher taxes/deficits argument is working on the right.

There&#039;s a long sad history of colonization that&#039;s made Afghanistan what it is today: imagined borders that only serve money-laundering-leaders, 90% illiterate, no roads to move agricultural products (besides heroin!), no industrial development, or infrastructure for just clean water. No access to the sea, thanks to the Brits. Check out Invisible History of Afghanistan on the C-SPAN Book TV, video here http://bit.ly/NahpZ

If colonialism were ever part of the dialogue, we&#039;d have to admit we owe and the Brits owe, big-time. Both of us used them like toilet paper, made their lives worse by every conceivable measure, as if they were mere troublesome insects on our path to self-enrichment/aggrandizement. 

Even CodePink - no sold-out-lefty-slouches - went to Afghanistan&#039;s women hoping for support for a U.S. pullout, and were stunned to hear the women want us there for protection. We armed the Taliban&#039;s war lords, they pay for it. 

So, sure, pull out, but not until we do just as we need to do here: create the system to provide meaningful green jobs, for men &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; women, that pay a living wage. A lot smaller investment would do 1000X as much there as here, and maybe we&#039;d (more of us) would sit up and say: Let&#039;s do it here, for ourselves, now.

And the Brits had best put in half the funds and people-power to get it done. They cut Afghanistan off from the Arabian Sea and created that fake worthless border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Obama did put the wars in the budget, as a smart tactic for exactly the kind of &#8216;more troops/bombs&#8217; arguments he expected. The higher taxes/deficits argument is working on the right.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a long sad history of colonization that&#8217;s made Afghanistan what it is today: imagined borders that only serve money-laundering-leaders, 90% illiterate, no roads to move agricultural products (besides heroin!), no industrial development, or infrastructure for just clean water. No access to the sea, thanks to the Brits. Check out Invisible History of Afghanistan on the C-SPAN Book TV, video here <a href="http://bit.ly/NahpZ" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/NahpZ</a></p>
<p>If colonialism were ever part of the dialogue, we&#8217;d have to admit we owe and the Brits owe, big-time. Both of us used them like toilet paper, made their lives worse by every conceivable measure, as if they were mere troublesome insects on our path to self-enrichment/aggrandizement. </p>
<p>Even CodePink &#8211; no sold-out-lefty-slouches &#8211; went to Afghanistan&#8217;s women hoping for support for a U.S. pullout, and were stunned to hear the women want us there for protection. We armed the Taliban&#8217;s war lords, they pay for it. </p>
<p>So, sure, pull out, but not until we do just as we need to do here: create the system to provide meaningful green jobs, for men <em>and</em> women, that pay a living wage. A lot smaller investment would do 1000X as much there as here, and maybe we&#8217;d (more of us) would sit up and say: Let&#8217;s do it here, for ourselves, now.</p>
<p>And the Brits had best put in half the funds and people-power to get it done. They cut Afghanistan off from the Arabian Sea and created that fake worthless border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Becca</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/18/pulling-threads-afghanistan/#comment-515</link>
		<dc:creator>Becca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=148#comment-515</guid>
		<description>And as ever, Afghanistan is where empires go to die...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And as ever, Afghanistan is where empires go to die&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: demi</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/18/pulling-threads-afghanistan/#comment-511</link>
		<dc:creator>demi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=148#comment-511</guid>
		<description>No forgiveness needed.  I love David Byrnes.  Saw him live in the late 8o&#039;s at the Greek Theatre.  I won&#039;t get into the details, but I was awake All Night.
He&#039;s hot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No forgiveness needed.  I love David Byrnes.  Saw him live in the late 8o&#8217;s at the Greek Theatre.  I won&#8217;t get into the details, but I was awake All Night.<br />
He&#8217;s hot.</p>
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		<title>By: Valley Girl</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/18/pulling-threads-afghanistan/#comment-510</link>
		<dc:creator>Valley Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=148#comment-510</guid>
		<description>TY Things- glad you understand why I linked it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TY Things- glad you understand why I linked it.</p>
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		<title>By: ThingsComeUndone</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/18/pulling-threads-afghanistan/#comment-509</link>
		<dc:creator>ThingsComeUndone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=148#comment-509</guid>
		<description>Great tune it fits the topic:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great tune it fits the topic:)</p>
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		<title>By: ThingsComeUndone</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/18/pulling-threads-afghanistan/#comment-508</link>
		<dc:creator>ThingsComeUndone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=148#comment-508</guid>
		<description>Because they are stealing from us? Granted the groups fighting us are not in on the take. A real plan for Afghanistan would have us paying small farmers cash to grow crops instead of drugs. This way we cut off Taliban and probably some of Ossama&#039;s funding.
    Of course then General McChrystal would have nobody to fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because they are stealing from us? Granted the groups fighting us are not in on the take. A real plan for Afghanistan would have us paying small farmers cash to grow crops instead of drugs. This way we cut off Taliban and probably some of Ossama&#8217;s funding.<br />
    Of course then General McChrystal would have nobody to fight.</p>
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		<title>By: Valley Girl</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/18/pulling-threads-afghanistan/#comment-507</link>
		<dc:creator>Valley Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=148#comment-507</guid>
		<description>demi- forgive me if my very odd sense of humor misfires- and I am making a pretty odd association here, but this is one of my favorite Talking Heads youtubes and thought of it because, well it captures aspects of War- I pulled it up and was thinking 

This ain&#039;t no Dupars, this ain&#039;t no disco, this ain&#039;t no fooling around&quot;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5yJZUyr_cM&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Talking Heads - Life During Wartime&lt;/a&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>demi- forgive me if my very odd sense of humor misfires- and I am making a pretty odd association here, but this is one of my favorite Talking Heads youtubes and thought of it because, well it captures aspects of War- I pulled it up and was thinking </p>
<p>This ain&#8217;t no Dupars, this ain&#8217;t no disco, this ain&#8217;t no fooling around&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5yJZUyr_cM" rel="nofollow">Talking Heads &#8211; Life During Wartime</a></p>
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