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	<title>Comments on: Obama On OFA Webcast: &#8220;We Have To Be Unified&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: Username</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/obama-on-ofa-webcast-we-have-to-be-unified/#comment-1041</link>
		<dc:creator>Username</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 02:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=230#comment-1041</guid>
		<description>My bets, as they have been for months, is we end up with largely the Baucus Bill. Perhaps some concessions will be made at the last minute, which will serve to fool those on the left into thinking they&#039;ve won some kind of victory forgetting the original bill was completely absurd to begin with. I even can see a Public Option in name only being included at the last second, but it not being the robust public option nearly everyone means when they use that term. However, it will be enough to placate those who blindly support and defend Obama as well as the many who do not follow the ins and outs of this closely. They&#039;ll hear him say &quot;public option&quot; on the TV while flipping through channels and think it&#039;s what they&#039;ve been supporting from the beginning. 

There are many reasons I came to this conclusion, but it&#039;s important to note the silence from the hc industry, except recently, in fighting health care reform. Seems rather odd this billion dollar industry would be relatively quiet if they thought their business was in jeopardy. They&#039;ve certainly fought hard in the past. All the visits from hc industry reps early on, no progressives, and the lack of a PR war to kill health care reform from those industries is more than suspicious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My bets, as they have been for months, is we end up with largely the Baucus Bill. Perhaps some concessions will be made at the last minute, which will serve to fool those on the left into thinking they&#8217;ve won some kind of victory forgetting the original bill was completely absurd to begin with. I even can see a Public Option in name only being included at the last second, but it not being the robust public option nearly everyone means when they use that term. However, it will be enough to placate those who blindly support and defend Obama as well as the many who do not follow the ins and outs of this closely. They&#8217;ll hear him say &#8220;public option&#8221; on the TV while flipping through channels and think it&#8217;s what they&#8217;ve been supporting from the beginning. </p>
<p>There are many reasons I came to this conclusion, but it&#8217;s important to note the silence from the hc industry, except recently, in fighting health care reform. Seems rather odd this billion dollar industry would be relatively quiet if they thought their business was in jeopardy. They&#8217;ve certainly fought hard in the past. All the visits from hc industry reps early on, no progressives, and the lack of a PR war to kill health care reform from those industries is more than suspicious.</p>
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		<title>By: Username</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/obama-on-ofa-webcast-we-have-to-be-unified/#comment-1037</link>
		<dc:creator>Username</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 02:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=230#comment-1037</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;going from harvard law and the law review to organizing in the chicago projects is what? a plan for upward mobility?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Who knows what the motivation was for that except Obama? He didn&#039;t show a consistent commitment to grassroot progressive efforts before or after that. This is just one thing he can list on his resume. Maybe at the time he wanted to do something like this. It&#039;s not unusual for an otherwise mainstream person to want to do something to help those in need. Even right-wing folks often participate in charities through their churches. That&#039;s the most positive way to look at it, taking into reality he is not a progressive fighter for the poor, working class, etc now. The more skeptical way to look at it is that he saw it as a stepping stone to advance his political career. What better way to win local (Democratic) votes than to show you have done something for the community?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>going from harvard law and the law review to organizing in the chicago projects is what? a plan for upward mobility?</p></blockquote>
<p>Who knows what the motivation was for that except Obama? He didn&#8217;t show a consistent commitment to grassroot progressive efforts before or after that. This is just one thing he can list on his resume. Maybe at the time he wanted to do something like this. It&#8217;s not unusual for an otherwise mainstream person to want to do something to help those in need. Even right-wing folks often participate in charities through their churches. That&#8217;s the most positive way to look at it, taking into reality he is not a progressive fighter for the poor, working class, etc now. The more skeptical way to look at it is that he saw it as a stepping stone to advance his political career. What better way to win local (Democratic) votes than to show you have done something for the community?</p>
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		<title>By: eagleye</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/obama-on-ofa-webcast-we-have-to-be-unified/#comment-1015</link>
		<dc:creator>eagleye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=230#comment-1015</guid>
		<description>I keep trying to trust Obama on healthcare, but it&#039;s a struggle.  A President who turned the economy over to ex-Goldman Sachs guys and who enlisted Rahm Emmanuel as his Chief of Staff has made it pretty clear where he&#039;s coming from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep trying to trust Obama on healthcare, but it&#8217;s a struggle.  A President who turned the economy over to ex-Goldman Sachs guys and who enlisted Rahm Emmanuel as his Chief of Staff has made it pretty clear where he&#8217;s coming from.</p>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/obama-on-ofa-webcast-we-have-to-be-unified/#comment-983</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=230#comment-983</guid>
		<description>I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but I&#039;m not sure I&#039;m sure I&#039;m ready to go with &quot;pretentious piece of crap&quot; quite yet.

On alternative candidates, I think we ought to look at Sheldon Whitehouse. He seems like a really straight up guy. The most trustworthy guy to fight for us is probably Bernie Sanders, but his &quot;image,&quot; sadly, is not the sort that the MSM would find impressive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;m ready to go with &#8220;pretentious piece of crap&#8221; quite yet.</p>
<p>On alternative candidates, I think we ought to look at Sheldon Whitehouse. He seems like a really straight up guy. The most trustworthy guy to fight for us is probably Bernie Sanders, but his &#8220;image,&#8221; sadly, is not the sort that the MSM would find impressive.</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/obama-on-ofa-webcast-we-have-to-be-unified/#comment-953</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=230#comment-953</guid>
		<description>So this is interesting. Your premise is to push either Single Payer or the Public Option on all of us even if we have insurance already paid for out of our own pockets AND are happy with it. What happened to this just being &quot;another affordable option&quot;? BTW as I am sure you know, if you get the public option, it will eventually become single payer. 

Also, I agree with the first line of your last paragraph, but why does it take a complete overhaul of the Health Care industry to allow competition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So this is interesting. Your premise is to push either Single Payer or the Public Option on all of us even if we have insurance already paid for out of our own pockets AND are happy with it. What happened to this just being &#8220;another affordable option&#8221;? BTW as I am sure you know, if you get the public option, it will eventually become single payer. </p>
<p>Also, I agree with the first line of your last paragraph, but why does it take a complete overhaul of the Health Care industry to allow competition.</p>
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		<title>By: SomeGuy</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/obama-on-ofa-webcast-we-have-to-be-unified/#comment-930</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=230#comment-930</guid>
		<description>That speech recharged my batteries. I&#039;m all for unity. He did make a good case that even the worst bill is better than nothing.

I still want single payer. If we can&#039;t get that, I want a strong public option.

The problem is that even the best of the bills being considered don&#039;t go far enough. Can we really call it a public option if a large majority don&#039;t have it as an option? Even worse, those who do qualify to get it really have no other option, not even the option of not buying insurance at all. 

If they are  unwilling or unable to regulate the health insurance companies to keep them from ripping us off, the least they could do is encourage competition in healthcare insurance. Without competition, the insurance companies can just pass along any taxes or fines they might get to their customers.

Health insurance companies should be encouraged to go compete in new markets, and have to deal with new competition in their own markets. They could make laws that could reward or punish the companies behavior with taxes. They could make things more affordable and efficient for healthcare providers by encouraging health insurance companies to use standardized forms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That speech recharged my batteries. I&#8217;m all for unity. He did make a good case that even the worst bill is better than nothing.</p>
<p>I still want single payer. If we can&#8217;t get that, I want a strong public option.</p>
<p>The problem is that even the best of the bills being considered don&#8217;t go far enough. Can we really call it a public option if a large majority don&#8217;t have it as an option? Even worse, those who do qualify to get it really have no other option, not even the option of not buying insurance at all. </p>
<p>If they are  unwilling or unable to regulate the health insurance companies to keep them from ripping us off, the least they could do is encourage competition in healthcare insurance. Without competition, the insurance companies can just pass along any taxes or fines they might get to their customers.</p>
<p>Health insurance companies should be encouraged to go compete in new markets, and have to deal with new competition in their own markets. They could make laws that could reward or punish the companies behavior with taxes. They could make things more affordable and efficient for healthcare providers by encouraging health insurance companies to use standardized forms.</p>
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		<title>By: DanRockridge</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/obama-on-ofa-webcast-we-have-to-be-unified/#comment-923</link>
		<dc:creator>DanRockridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=230#comment-923</guid>
		<description>Obama is willing to settle for next to nothing. His OFA quote, which stinks of the myth &quot;don&#039;t let the perfect be the enemy of the good,&quot; fits perfectly with the ongoing WH line that Obama prefers the public option but is willing to consider all other ideas. Obama knows the public option is the best solution but he&#039;s still willing to ditch it. &quot;Yes, we can&quot;** 

**but that doesn&#039;t mean we will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama is willing to settle for next to nothing. His OFA quote, which stinks of the myth &#8220;don&#8217;t let the perfect be the enemy of the good,&#8221; fits perfectly with the ongoing WH line that Obama prefers the public option but is willing to consider all other ideas. Obama knows the public option is the best solution but he&#8217;s still willing to ditch it. &#8220;Yes, we can&#8221;** </p>
<p>**but that doesn&#8217;t mean we will.</p>
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		<title>By: mercury</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/obama-on-ofa-webcast-we-have-to-be-unified/#comment-919</link>
		<dc:creator>mercury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=230#comment-919</guid>
		<description>IMHO, I tend to think the actual scenario is closer to what you describe than it is evidence of some kind of total sellout.  

Hope I&#039;m right, and will do my bit to keep up the pressure in the meantime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMHO, I tend to think the actual scenario is closer to what you describe than it is evidence of some kind of total sellout.  </p>
<p>Hope I&#8217;m right, and will do my bit to keep up the pressure in the meantime.</p>
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		<title>By: fatster</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/obama-on-ofa-webcast-we-have-to-be-unified/#comment-911</link>
		<dc:creator>fatster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=230#comment-911</guid>
		<description>Go for the whole loaf.  You may not get it, but with the Rahm-Obama approach, we&#039;ll end up with a couple of crumbs--and the insurance, pharma and for-profit health care providers will end up with the entire bakery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go for the whole loaf.  You may not get it, but with the Rahm-Obama approach, we&#8217;ll end up with a couple of crumbs&#8211;and the insurance, pharma and for-profit health care providers will end up with the entire bakery.</p>
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		<title>By: TarheelDem</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/obama-on-ofa-webcast-we-have-to-be-unified/#comment-910</link>
		<dc:creator>TarheelDem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=230#comment-910</guid>
		<description>It begins to smell like baiting the base to keep the pressure on Congress.

Congress, however wants to use him as cover for the fact that Reid can&#039;t or won&#039;t deliver party unity on what the public wants.  Obama remaining non-committal focuses attention on the Congress.

It also has the advantage of undercutting the industries who negotiated in bad faith (those supporting Americans for Prosperity, for example) coming back and charging that Obama broke his agreements.  If he seems true to his negotiations, he can set up other industry groups the same way.

The fact is we need to stop &quot;reading the tea leaves&quot; when dealing with a poker player.  We will never ever know what Obama really thinks about any issue.  It could be that poker player Obama is simply saying that his reading of where Congress is that the worst hand is better than the status quo.  And he will continue to say that publicly until the Democratic caucus in the Senate is united.  And certainly until the Senate actually has the reconciled bill.

That is what is driving the right wing nuts.  They&#039;ve not been able to get traction on this issue despite the millions of dollars and 24/7 propaganda poured into the Teabagger movement and Americans for Prosperity.  The majority of the public now sees through the government takeover lie and the harder it is pushed the more support for a robust public option solidifies.

Progressives have -- by being where the public is (thus the popularity of the public option) instead of being ahead of the public.  Being where the public opinion should be a backstop for legislation in Congress at the same time that we work to move the public toward realistic and practical change--and give them the legislative opportunity to test the popularity of the visionary.  

Looking at where public opinion is and not the opinions of progressive bloggers, taking single payer off the table was a huge political mistake brought about by folks like Baucus and Ross; hopefully Pelosi and Reid have learned from that fiasco.  Those ads run in Nebraska, Montana, Arkansas, and other states might not have gotten the politician in question to publicly admit to a changed position, but it has definitely moved and solidified public opinion to know who the compromised Democrats are.

And we should realize that there are other players in the White House than Rahm Emmanuel, and Obama seems to play them against each other before deciding.

Finally if having gotten a nominal filibuster-proof majority in the Democratic caucus, the task is not to move that Congress in a progressive direction without expecting Obama to help. What he will always be stating is the least of what we can expect out of Congress.  If there is any primarying to be done, it is against members of Congress who, like Baucus or Mike Ross or Jim Cooper, are out of step with their constituents and those who pay more attention to contributors who have vested corporate intrerests in their position than to their constituents.  In most cases, both of those conditions apply.

I would rather be dealing with these issues than dealing with a McCain presidency and a Republican Congress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It begins to smell like baiting the base to keep the pressure on Congress.</p>
<p>Congress, however wants to use him as cover for the fact that Reid can&#8217;t or won&#8217;t deliver party unity on what the public wants.  Obama remaining non-committal focuses attention on the Congress.</p>
<p>It also has the advantage of undercutting the industries who negotiated in bad faith (those supporting Americans for Prosperity, for example) coming back and charging that Obama broke his agreements.  If he seems true to his negotiations, he can set up other industry groups the same way.</p>
<p>The fact is we need to stop &#8220;reading the tea leaves&#8221; when dealing with a poker player.  We will never ever know what Obama really thinks about any issue.  It could be that poker player Obama is simply saying that his reading of where Congress is that the worst hand is better than the status quo.  And he will continue to say that publicly until the Democratic caucus in the Senate is united.  And certainly until the Senate actually has the reconciled bill.</p>
<p>That is what is driving the right wing nuts.  They&#8217;ve not been able to get traction on this issue despite the millions of dollars and 24/7 propaganda poured into the Teabagger movement and Americans for Prosperity.  The majority of the public now sees through the government takeover lie and the harder it is pushed the more support for a robust public option solidifies.</p>
<p>Progressives have &#8212; by being where the public is (thus the popularity of the public option) instead of being ahead of the public.  Being where the public opinion should be a backstop for legislation in Congress at the same time that we work to move the public toward realistic and practical change&#8211;and give them the legislative opportunity to test the popularity of the visionary.  </p>
<p>Looking at where public opinion is and not the opinions of progressive bloggers, taking single payer off the table was a huge political mistake brought about by folks like Baucus and Ross; hopefully Pelosi and Reid have learned from that fiasco.  Those ads run in Nebraska, Montana, Arkansas, and other states might not have gotten the politician in question to publicly admit to a changed position, but it has definitely moved and solidified public opinion to know who the compromised Democrats are.</p>
<p>And we should realize that there are other players in the White House than Rahm Emmanuel, and Obama seems to play them against each other before deciding.</p>
<p>Finally if having gotten a nominal filibuster-proof majority in the Democratic caucus, the task is not to move that Congress in a progressive direction without expecting Obama to help. What he will always be stating is the least of what we can expect out of Congress.  If there is any primarying to be done, it is against members of Congress who, like Baucus or Mike Ross or Jim Cooper, are out of step with their constituents and those who pay more attention to contributors who have vested corporate intrerests in their position than to their constituents.  In most cases, both of those conditions apply.</p>
<p>I would rather be dealing with these issues than dealing with a McCain presidency and a Republican Congress.</p>
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