The latest Village meme on health care and the public option is an expression of surprise that it’s still alive. Clearly they all believed – reporters, operatives and politicians alike – that they could punch the hippies in the teeth without consequences and congratulate each other for doing so in the name of “winning the health care battle.” This under-estimation of the intensity of the progressive coalition on this issue is a permanent condition. In fact, it continues, with the expectations on a down-shift into the trigger option, which isn’t acceptable to anyone in the progressive coalition or the Progressive Caucus in Congress. The nugget in that Washington Post story, that the House and Senate want to pass similar versions of the public option, so conference committee can focus on other issues, actually makes it more likely that the trigger gets extinguished, because it simply cannot pass the House. The opt-out may have more of a chance, but the Progressive Caucus still “opposes an opt-out in any form.”
That said, I have to marvel at statements like this from Politico’s Jonathan Martin on Hardball:
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MARTIN: Yeah, there’s truth to that, and that’s in large part, Chris because you have House progressives who are very wary of anything that is not a robust public plan. And there are some of those folks, that have nothing politically to lose, that are going to very much hew to that, and are not going to support anything short of a full public option, and that’s going to be a real problem for the Speaker.
This is just not true. Here you have an anti-incumbent mood across the country, as much among Democrats and progressives as Republicans. Progressives have had a general sense of disappointment with Congress since Democrats won the House in 2006. There is no issue where the public is as keyed in as on this health care issue. There’s no question that progressives will face primaries, which wouldn’t have to be entirely well-funded if the public mood sours, if they don’t stand up for their constituencies, who are most in need of a public insurance option, in the halls of Congress. They are showing that directly through their actions. They actually have EVERYTHING politically to lose.
Since the Village missed the fact that progressives would actually force the public option into the bill from the bottom up, I think we can expect that they’ve missed the fact that their progressive representatives in Congress would do the same, at least partly out of political survival.
This is unrelated, but kind of glorious. From the WaPo health care article:
Reid’s original inclination was to leave the public option out of a final bill he is writing from measures passed by the finance and health committees. But his liberal colleagues began urging him two weeks ago to reconsider, after insurance industry forecasts that premiums would rise sharply under the Finance Committee bill, which lacked a public option. The report had the effect of prodding Democrats to look for better ways to control costs, and the public option — strongly opposed by the insurance industry — reemerged as a possible solution.
AHIP has been the public option’s best friend for the last month.
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Perhaps the insurance industry wouldn’t mind the Public Option if they were guaranteed that they would be running it. LINK.
Um – is not Martin saying that those progressives who ARE standing up for their constituents have nothing to lose (i.e., they are very much hewing to the public option)? I agree that those who aren’t, do, regardless of the tilt tint of their district….
Yeah, what the hell is that about? There is no bill yet, where do they get that info?
Can I just say, shallow as it is, Mike Allen looks as stupid as he writes.
The Village is about to discover that ‘it’s not their town anymore.’ The Village would make a great anthropological study. It’s a tribe whose members consist mainly of ex-Congressmen and congressional staffers cashing in as lobbyists, people who have always been lobbyists, assorted paid hacks in conservative think-tanks, trust-fund babies at WaPo and other news outlets, and at the tip of that submerged iceberg, the elected officials. Since Reagan this village has become ever larger and tighter. What matters is power, because power determines who gets to sip at the public trough. They don’t understand any other kind of politics, because this has been the only kind that we’ve had at the Center since the 1980s.
Obama was a shock they didn’t anticipate. Figured he go along to get along just like the Clinton’s did. What they didn’t anticipate was the Republican meltdown and his nerve and intelligence, which have something to do with the meltdown.
The Village is still in denial.
I also love how “folks concerned about abortion rights” always find a friendly venue on Tweety’s wee programme. He manages to keep the anti-abortion issue on the burner single-mindedly, when everyone else is trying to talk seriously about health care reform.
Has Versailles ever been right about anything since Cronkite retired?
You didn’t really think he was a Democrat(despite working for Tip O’Neil and Jimmy Carter), did you?
Does anyone really believe that having Olympia Snowe’s vote- even if that’s possible- would make the legislation bipartisan? That is simply absurd. One vote doesn’t mean that Republicans support the legislation and could later be used to say they have any responsibility for its consequences. Is anyone -other than the MSM- stupid enough to swallow this? Besides, let’s be clear: health care reform is a concrete action that will affect every single American, one way or another. Bipartisanship is a theoretical concept that may sound nice but doesn’t affect anyone other than the players themselves- and their devoted followers – the MSM.
Why do I have the urge to wrote in capital letters and bold type? Because I feel like I need to scream.
Obama and Emanuel are the problem, not the solution. The Castle within the walled village seems more out of touch than the Senate who’ve, been by and large, bought off by their corporate benefactors.
Public option run by private insurance…perfectly Orwellian. And yes, it’s been there all along attracting very little attention. Most progressives are envisioning Jacob Hacker’s version of the public option (he came up with it, I think). Be interesting to see the public reaction if they do contract it out to private industry. General outrage might be a reasonable response.
and marcopolo @ 11. I dunno what it’s about, but I almost went apoplectic when I saw it. I’ve been a real pest about it, too (hope I’ll be forgiven) and linked to it in about three places here already. Maybe marcopolo will tell us more, since you seem to be more on top of it–please.
And I don’t think it’s clear that Snowe will support any bill, even without the ‘robust’ public option.
That is the ultimate stupidity. It will be fun to watch to see if any republicans vote in favor though, won’t it.
I’d prefer it to be passed with only dems, though, cuz we’ll get lots more voters. I feel bad if it’s opt out, except that a lot more dems would be elected at the state level, which would be a good thing.
I think it’s a ploy to make us hate the public option. I just don’t believe it. Nobody was cited, I’ve never once heard it before this morning…and that was from the Ultimate Village.
I’ve been plowing through Nixonland for almost 5 months and when it reminds me of the shit that Segretti et al pulled none of this is a surprise. These motherfuckers are masters of doing anything to get dems fighting among themselves. Planting bullshit stories is just one of their time honored tactics.
The part I find most baffling is how the nearly entire Democratic party seems to fail to understand that unless people see REAL improvement in their healthcare situation — both in availability and cost — before the 2010 election, they can kiss their majorities goodbye. And Obama WILL be a one-term president, probably replaced with whichever GOPer promises to repeal the “healthcare reform” legislative abomination.
The facts are simple. People are getting sick, dying, and going broke because the healthcare industry has turned cancerous and parasitic on us all. Every other advanced nation has pretty much solved this problem through strict regulation and government support. Canadian, British, Swiss, German, French — they all have different solutions, but their people don’t suffer like we do, all for the sake of continued ruthless sociopathic capitalism. Here, the Republican party has gone insane — they no longer care who they hurt, so long as they stop every Democratic party initiative; their votes cannot be had at any price.
Instead, they dither over whether to even have a public option, whether to enforce regulations and cost-containment measures (like importation of cheaper drugs, reducing monopolies, etc.), whether to stick in a trigger, whether to delay any help for YEARS.
The Democratic Party in Congress and the White House seem blithely ignorant that they are in the process of cutting their own throats. All for the sake of votes they can’t get and shouldn’t even try for.
I’ve enjoyed watching Lawrence O’Donnell On KO have to change his tune on the inevitability of no public option. He was really annoying in using his experience from being the Finance Committee’s chief of staff in the ‘93-’94 health care debate and extrapolating that out to today’s debates. He, like a lot of other “oldtimers,” really misunderestimated the power of the online community in being able to change the conversation from one run by MSM, FOX and the Repukes in July and August to now. We cannot see Rahm in action, but I am imagining that he has had to eat a few words himself, as he is of that same generation.
Haven’t read that as yet but do have memories of anytime Segretti et al got called out for something they always blamed Dick Tuck for forcing them to respond.
So the “Party of Personal Responsibility” has been blaming others for their actions for a few decades now.
It’s looooongggggg. Granted I only read it at “critical” moments but still!
Go Becca!
Raven, the dems better get the word on whether this is true lickety-splitly.
So why doesn’t the House vote on 676 already, (or did they and I missed it?)
Think of the new pressure it would bring if 676 actually passed the House. What the hell, are there Democrats afraid of going on the record and actually voting for or against 676? That tells me enough right there to know they’re not real Democrats.
I don’t think I missed the vote on 676, but I suppose it’s possible. Have they voted on that yet?
Yeah, it’s surprising how long books will last when read like that.
Whats 676?
What’s also surprising is how even more critical those moments become when you can’t find anything to read! I’ve had something near panic set in at times.
HR 676, isn’t that the Improved Medicare for All bill? Essentially, single payer?
I bring up 676 because I keep hearing they’ve got the 218 votes for a strong public option in the House. Now I’m well aware that it’s not likely that all 218 of them also support single payer, but couldn’t they be convinced to vote for it once as a strategy to get the best possible public option in conference?
I know it sounds like a long shot, but I want Democrats on the record one way or the other for 676, and I think that’s why they’re not voting on it, because they don’t WANT to be on the record one way or the other.
I don’t think single payer has been seriously discussed. Maybe in 2013…
It’s been introduced, referred to committee, and has 88 co-sponsors.
EDIT: And I thought I remember hearing that a promise was made that it would be brought up for a vote. IIRC, in previous Congress’s it’s never been brought to a vote (it’s been introduced several times). But i thought I remember a pledge from leadership that it would be voted on in this Congress.
Takes 218 though…
OT- Geraldo Rivera takes on Lou Dobbs.
Politico is merely a less obvious arm than Fox of the Republiccn Party.
At some point it might be necessary to come to the conclusion that the current political/social system has become so corrupt and ossified that it is incapable of meaningful reform. The plutocrats would seem to see the American people as merely shills to be fleeced either by corporations or the government itself.
The battle of the mental midgets.
Ain’t that the truth?
thats your laugh line, right there.
who needs a restricted, limited, selective, partial, untried form of insurance assistance that kicks in three years from now?
yeah, I need a new roof on my house, and a lot of rain is gonna fall between now and 2013, so it is ludicrous to say that some elaborate, bureaucratic subsidy program for roof repairs in the future is what I need.
people are dying and being bankrupted very day by the atrocious health care system in this country – what they need is something like Single Payer, Medicare for all, not diversionary ruses conveniently postponed until after the election cycle of 2012.
I just can’t help myself, I keep coming back to this paper published in August ‘08:
Renewing America’s Promise
Preamble
We come together at a defining moment in the history of our nation – the nation that led the 20th century, built a thriving middle class, defeated fascism and communism, and provided bountiful opportunity to many. We Democrats have a special commitment to this promise of America. We believe that every American, whatever their background or station in life, should have the chance to get a good education, to work at a good job with good wages, to raise and provide for a family, to live in safe surroundings, and to retire with dignity and security. We believe that quality and affordable health care is a basic right.
Covering All Americans and Providing Real Choices of Affordable Health Insurance Options.
Families and individuals should have the option of keeping the coverage they have or choosing from a wide array of health insurance plans, including many private health insurance options and a public plan. Coverage should be made affordable for all Americans with subsidies provided through tax credits and other means.
It’s what the Democrats ran on and won, says it right there in their:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/5580817/2008-Democratic-Party-Platform-Renewing-Americas-Promise
Why are they so surprised that we’re expecting them to keep the Promise to America? I mean it was in all the papers. Just a week before it was adopted Christopher Krohn wrote in the Berkeley Daily Planet:
The Democratic Party’s recently released platform draft, titled “Renewing America’s Promise,” is to be ratified at the party’s Denver convention next week. It appears at first to be a long speech filled with platitudes. It is in fact a document filled with policy responses intended for the widest swath of possible voters, and in some places it offers a rather bold and progressive agenda at that.
This agenda includes the regular Democratic stuff: winding down the war in Iraq, protecting a woman’s right to choose, pursuing alternative energy, defeating Al Qaeda, and repealing the Bush tax cuts on those earning over $250,000. But, there are some surprising Democratic Party agenda items buried inside: the call for universal healthcare, contemplation of “a world without nuclear weapons,” breaking America’s addiction to foreign oil (but NOT to oil itself), calls for doubling automobile fuel efficiency standards (but with no time frame given), affordable childcare for “every American child,” paid college “if you commit your life to teaching,” asking for premiums collected by insurers to be primarily dedicated to care “not profits,” raising the minimum wage and indexing it to inflation, and even support for “the revitalization of American Indian languages” as well as advocacy that our children learn a foreign language. Whew! http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2008-08-21/article/30923?headline=CONVENTION-SPECIAL-Democratic-Party-Platform-All-things-to-All-People-
Didn’t Mary Landrieu and the Blue Dogs get an invitation? Or maybe they didn’t read this 59 page message approved by the Democratic National Convention http://www.scribd.com/doc/5580817/2008-Democratic-Party-Platform-Renewing-Americas-Promise
The Village, got to live there to understand them.
But people won’t return to the repugs. That would be like jumping off a bridge cause your best friend did it.
HR 676 / Medicare For All, originally had 86 co-signers. Throw in its author, John Conyers, and the bill has 87 supporters in the House. Of course, all of this preceded Obama’s election and any real possibility that the Dems would have to make good on their promises to their constituents.
Still, the idea that Medicare For All is not viable, that it lacks Congressional support, has always been bullshit. It’s a lie that’s been peddled by Obama flunkies and the peasants that eat the crumbs that they are thrown.
With 87 signatures already on the bill, its too late for these members to deny the idea altogether, so they simply avoid talking about it. As for the peasants … well, I have no idea why they don’t fight for it and instead beg for the Pyrrhic Option. Maybe you should ask them?
Medicare For All / HR 676: Don’t accept any substitutes or any legislative rebranding of the only real option for the American public.
yikes! the cost of dem party activists taking single payer off the table last summer in favor of an industry centered approach (yuck), is that when people’s attention turns to healthcare reform actual progressive policy initiatives are hard to be find.
so… here are a few links off the top of my head for anyone who hasn’t been following the diaries of ralphbon, letsgetitdone, montanamaven, libbyliberal, (all great diarists to check out, btw):
*** must read: Can the Democrats Avoid a Populist Health Care Rebellion?
* hr 676 faq from john conyers
* Single-Payer National Health Insurance info from Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP)
* pnhp’s blog (must read — the best policy analysis on healthcare reform)
* guaranteed healthcare blog from * CNA/NNOC (california nurses association / national nurses organizing committee – a great progressive labor union)
* pda single payer working group from progressive democrats of america (PDA)
* Healthcare-Now! Organizing for a National Single-Payer Healthcare System HR 676: One Plan, One Nation
* Mobilizaton for Health Care for All
* Mad as Hell Doctors (background while site is offline from pda, me and montanamaven)
hopefully that should be enough to start with *g*, please ask questions if not.
many apologies to the mods, i’m sure i’m going to go over the link limit with this one! (((mods)))
All of Pelosi’s communication to me as a constituent has been that 676 does not have sufficient support.
I do so want to agree, but I keep thinking of lemmings.
I’m going to hold that thought, Loo Hoo. Many thnx.
I feel like a duck who’s woken up in a brand new world… I’m a 60 year old woman… grew up in south Mississippi…. voted as a democrat in every election… never wavered.. gave money…put up yard signs … and replaced them when my winger neighbors stole them… And suddenly here I am part of the ‘lunatic fringe left’. What friggin world is this? Those morons in washington have lost their minds. I can tell you what fringe is. Fringe is what’s on those bell-bottom jeans I used to wear and I’m not above digging them out and taking to the streets unless this HCR gets passed to my satisfaction. For God’s sake, the public option IS the compromise. It’s plain as day; we’ve been sold down the river. But hey, if we’re going back to serfdom and fiefdoms we all get our little cottage in the country where we can grow our own veggies and keep a cow, right? What a nightmare this is turning out to be!
i should have included the pitch for single payer hr 676:
everybody in, no body out
no deductibles, no copays, no coinsurance
doctors and hospitals compete for your business.
also some history on hr 676 (prior to this year):
i was first introduced to single payer policy-wise in 2002 when i (for some random reason that i don’t remember) when to a talk given by someone from pnhp to a local human rights group i’d done some anti-war organizing with. it was an amazingly good talk, very informative and persuasive.
in 2003 “Proposal of the Physicians’ Working Group for Single-Payer National Health Insurance” was published in JAMA (Journal of the AMA):
also in 2003 hr 676 was first introduced (38 cosponsors), again in 2005 (78 cosponsors) and in 2007 (93 cosponsors, by this point in the 110th congress there were 88) and 2009 (87 cosponsors so far). each time there have been a lot more cosponsors until this congress (the 111th – so far there are 87, which is almost the same rate as the last congress. still pretty good imo with all the oxygen being taken up by the dems proposed public option / mandate system).
and as of last year (from drsteveb)
ralphbon and others here can talk about all what has been happening this year (and the links in my previous comment have lots of info on that), it’s been too much for me to keep up with.. the only link i will include is to the liveblog of the congressional committee hearing that was only held after 13 people (including doctors and nurses) got themselves arrested protesting single payer’s exclusion from all for senator baucus’ hearings:
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/5695
that’s what social movements are for. the dems aren’t going to take on the insurance companies (and lose all those $$$) unless we make them.
yep.
and whoever thought pre-compromising away single payer and pre-accepting individual mandates because the party leadership could be trusted to do something like hacker’s original public option proposal (actually robust, unlike the weak pos now being fought over) was, imo, nuts.
Sure, marketing is key. Because you wouldn’t want PO supporters who think they are really fighting for Medicare For All to mistakenly write, call, march and work for some other program, right?
I’m not all that convinced that they are the issue. I do agree that they compromise when they don’t need to… and they are victims of the fact that conservatives have successfully embedded their PR into the culture’s collective brains in these 30 or more years. I think what’s happening right now is what needs to happen. These reasonably intelligent, brainwashed, folks are slowly waking up to the idea that the old accepted ideas just aren’t accepted any more.
The only real question is – do we have that critical mass yet to give us enough power to actually get decent health care?
lol. well, i wouldn’t but apparently hcan et al. disagree. at least, i don’t have any other explanation for the massive amount of disinformation (the public option will let you choose single payer, the public option is single payer, the public option is like medicare,….) and co-opting of single payer rhetoric, etc. i’ve seen over the past year. the latest “medicare e” for “medicare for everyone” is really outrageous. not medicare. not everyone. and hr 676’s official name since 2003 has been “expanded and improved medicare for all act.”
if selling the po/mandate system is hard going, the answer shouldn’t be pretending it’s something (single payer, medicare) it isn’t. lame.
Right! What we’re looking at now is a repeat of 1988 when they added “catastrophic coverage” to Medicare only to be forced into repealing it in 1989. Why did that happen? It was repealed because it put all the costs up front and, BY DESIGN, did nothing until a future date. This is what we’re doing again and the lesson isn’t even part of ancient history.
Unfortunatly, when things come undone, the dems ranks are thined, etc, the wrong lessons are sure to be the ones that get promoted. It will be said, the country wasn’t ready for reform, it was too radical, we can’t hold the purple districts with progresive legislation, etc. Whereas the real lesson is, when you pretend to fix things but don’t people won’t stand for it.
You are so right Gnome! LO is a perfect example of village idiocy. I usually like him but seeing him on Countdown time after time stating matter of factly that there were not enough votes for the PO no way, no how has been maddening. I even wrote a kos diary about it. The weird part is LO seemed to be enjoying saying that the PO was dead. Whatever. All these village idiots will have some major egg on their faces when all is said and done…can’t wait to see the crow eating contest.
I just hope it’s them that has the egg on their face. I’m not going to be shocked if a bill passes with no PO or with one so watered down it might as well have been no PO. Wouldn’t surprise me one bit. In fact, I’ll be surprised if they DO pass a bill with a strong PO. But then again, I am a long time pessimist.
I saw and sensed that, too. My take is that LO is anxious to be prescient, partly because he needs the ongoing cred of knowing the Hill, and partly because he believes it, and thinks wasting time on it on cable TV shows would be time better spent laying waste to Republicans for obstructing.
I would dearly love to see him resoundingly repudiated on the former.
And I don’t dislike LO.
there is no strong PO in any of the bills. that one, the original hacker proposal, was apparently pre-compromised away too (although that pre-compromise, unlike the single payer one, was not to my knowledge every announced or formally acknowledged).
http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/07/20/bait-and-switch-how-the-“public-option”-was-sold/
i think the idea now is to try to get something that might, with future improvement, be workable or at least not a major fail. just wish people would stop with “robust” nonsense. over hyping the reform will blow back on the dems. and it’s not right to be less than as accurate as we possibly can in describing the various bills/policies/etc.
my two cents anyway.
Excellent points Becca, exactly correct!!
why aren’t there any progressives in the Obama administration?