So David Dreier and the Republicans are making a bunch of attempted amendments to the rule, none of which are being allowed, as the Democrats vote as a block.
Rep. Alcee Hastings actually read the rule out, and it appeared to me that Rep. Stupak’s amendment on abortion language was going to be allowed on the floor. I’m trying to get confirmation on this. The AP had a story that this would happen, but when Stupak testified in committee he claimed that the deal fell apart and he was “scrambling” in an effort to get the amendment on the floor. So I’m trying to figure things out.
Jim McGovern and Pete Sessions are getting in a fight about the stimulus. They’re all slap-happy.
…Wow, it looks like the Stupak amendment will get a floor vote. The Democratic leadership is making a bet that, if it doesn’t pass, Stupak and his cadres will sign on to the bill (I highly doubt it; most of them are no votes on health care entirely); and if it does pass, pro-choice Democrats won’t sink the bill entirely (also, I highly doubt it). I’m a bit surprised that it’s come to this. Also, Stupak appeared to have lied in the Rules Committee about how the deal “fell apart,” since he got what he wanted.
This is an enormous bet, and not a well-designed one either, in my view. The Democratic Party will tomorrow give a minority of their caucus an opportunity to amend a large health care bill that would effectively ban abortion services coverage in the individual and small group insurance market, essentially telling private insurance companies what they cannot cover.
UPDATE: Here’s more on this from the Washington Post. Pro-choice Democrats are seething right now.
The amendment is expected to pass with the combined support of more than 40 anti-abortion Democrats and virtually every House Republican. That likelihood meant that leaders of the much larger group of Democrats who support abortion rights were not happy to learn of the deal.
“There will be no abortion, not just with public funds, but with private funds under the public option, and that’s not acceptable,” said Rep. Diana DeGette (D-Colo.).
House leaders met with that bloc of Democrats late Friday to try to quell their frustration., but the agreement makes clear that they believe abortion-rights Democrats will find it difficult to vote against the health-care bill even with such a restriction attached to it.
They totally caved because they couldn’t find the votes for their bill. Now they’ll try to jam it down the throats of pro-choice Dems. And they’ll probably succeed. A case in point: in discussing the Stupak Amendment in committee, Rep. Alcee Hastings (D-FL) said it would lead to back-alley abortions with coathangers and said if it passed, he would “have a lot of trouble” voting for the bill. But when it came time to vote on the final rule, Hastings said “I am voting with history, I vote yes.” He’ll say the same thing when he votes to ban abortion coverage in the private individual and small group market by passing the bill tomorrow.
Also, we’ll never know if Stupak was bluffing.



91 Comments


Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL News Desk
Thanks for the dogged follow-up and reporting, dday.
Wasn’t blocking that amendment the leadership’s excuse for preventing all other amendments by House members from reaching the floor of the “People’s House”? [Indiscriminate blocking which Jim McGovern, Alcee Hastings, Dennis Cardoza, Mike Arcuri, Ed Perlmutter (I think), and Jared Polis robotically and tauntingly executed, repeatedly, against 200+ Republican and Democratic amendments alike - in the face of the four Republicans moving to put them in order - in mindless obedience to the Party puppetmasters who pull their sycophantic strings. The Democratic females, including the Chair Louise Slaughter, and Doris Matsui and Chellie Pingree, managed to skip out on the final, deeply-unsettling ritual slaughter of democratic process in the House Rules Committee at 1:00 AM, just short of 12 hours after the committee started their little play-acting performance about having an open mind. Power apologists, one and all, except when they find themselves in the minority.]
So what’s the excuse now for the jaw-droppingly undemocratic Democratic Party rule allowing only one floor amendment by House members on this massive, “historic” piece of legislation?
Stupak and Kaptur, et al, apparently played a successful game of brinksmanship with the Party leadership, and got their way as a result. Too bad “Progressives” don’t likewise have the courage of their (professed) convictions, or their amendments to this bill would also now be in order on the House floor.
So… is this a poison pill? In the sense that the Rs and the BlueDems can get the Stupak amendment passed, which could peel enough progresso-Dems off to doom the bill in the actual vote?
Some good info here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/07/compromise-reached-on-hea_n_349309.html
planned parenthood says hell no dems. says this is defacto abortion ban. what a mess. and why again no medicare po?
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/66789-stupak-to-get-up-or-down-vote-on-amendment-to-block-abortion-funding
Doesn’t he still have to come up with the votes? It only gets in the bill if he’s not bluffing and can produce the votes. Not sure I understand your point.
As I read the linked Huffington Post report, it appears that once an Ellsworth compromise fell through Pelosi had three choices: 1) Include the Stupak amendment in the bill; 2) Call his bluff that he had the votes to take down the rule or 3) Allow a vote on the Stupak amendment.
Obviously, the first was a non-starter. So Stupak was going to get his vote — either by taking down the rule or on his amendment. I guess Pelosi decided that if Stupak has the votes (and nobody is really sure whether he does) it would be worse to lose the rule than to adopt the amendment.
Guess we’ll see tomorrow.
WaPo story here: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/11/democrats_to_resolve_abortion.html?hpid=topnews
thanks dday, that was an heroic effort at live blogging and it is much appreciated.
I guess the idea is that, together with those who oppose the bill for other reasons, there are more than 40 votes. So they give Stupak a vote on his amendment–but Stupak was clear it has to pass in order for pro-lifers to vote for the overall bill. This will probably require some fence-sitters to vote for the Stupak amendment to make sure it passes.
I just sent this to my congressman via his campaign net guy and his health care LA:
If the democratic party lets this happen:
http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/07/actual-action-at-the-house-rules-committee-on-the-health-care-bill-stupak-amendment-to-get-floor-vote/
You all have lost my vote, my interest, my money. Period.
You can let Joe know this.
Deb
oh, and I don’t even care that he will vote against it. Somehow that doesn’t give me comfort.
Dems caving to blackmail on votes. Whoever could have anticipated…?
This seems like the poison bill, er “pill” amendment. This is such a transparent bill killer. I wonder if Rahm is using it to rationalize the failure to pass any bill?
any bill or this bill with even a weak PO?
It’s on Nancy’s head this time though.
It’s a pisser, but if it’s what it takes to get a bill passed …
morning revdeb and all.
this is mind blowing if allowed to pass. between it, the industry bailouts, schip, mandates, no cost controls, i never expected anything this bad. and for all jim mcgovern’s talk, i’m pretty sure most people in MA getting subsidies would be worse off (have much higher costs). and is there even an out of pocket max for people getting subsidized plans in the house bill as there is in MA? i’ve just been reading up on the MA subsidized plans and they look much better than what i can see of the house bill (going by the nov 2 cbo letter)
where can we get straight info (not dishonest propaganda) to compare what this bill would do vs the current situation? especially cost info…
don’t know if this is news to y’all or not
US Conference of Catholic Bishops endorse Pelosi Bill
Morning David and Firedogs
Planned Parenthood’s sending out alerts and Tweets like this one:
This whole thing is really insane!!!!
This needs to go down in flames as a lesson that the people, not special interests, come first!
Doesn’t everyone realize that Hispanic/Latino seniors are the single largest group of Medicare Advantage enrollees? 33% of all Hispanic/Latino Seniors (25% African American, 20% White, 16% Asian)…
fully 82% of all Hispanic/Latino seniors with incomes LESS THAN $20,000 per year have Medicare Advantage — because the plans often have ZERO premium, and coverage for things like vision and hearing that ARE NOT COVERED by standard Medicare.
These plans will disappear immediately.
EVERY HISPANIC/LATINO AMERICAN SHOULD DEMAND HOW THIS CAN POSSIBLY STAND!!!!
That is interesting. Stupak is listed as a RC. Guess he has been spending to much time at “C” Street and not enough out in the real world.
Call 202-730-9001 and PP will connect you to the House switchboard. If you can’t get through there, try your congresscritter’s local office.
last week they urged priests to read an anti choice “pastoral letter” at last sunday’s mass.
sorry. My body is not for sale for a bad bill.
I doubt they will have enough votes to reject it. We shall see. All the rethugs plus a combo of the no-choice dems and the dems who want to stop the bill should just about do it.
And where’s the progressive caucus I want to know?
I’d like to see their tax exempt status evaluated.
also -per CSPAN – Stupak amendment debate in about 20 minutes.
Can their tax exempt status be challenged over this? Did they ever issue a “pastoral letter” over payday loans at usurious rates?
anyone else watching / streaming cspan? realplayer radio link (at least it used to be, haven’t tested it recently, i’m streaming via itunes)
I am afraid that the rethugs are going to support this ammendment in the hopes of driving a wedge into the dems.
by this administration? They are still giving money to faith based agencies—what Bush started, they have not stopped.
This administration is showing itself for who they were all along. They don’t care about gays, they don’t care about women, all they care about is lining the pockets of the banksters and corporate overlords.
I have to write a sermon and this is totally invading my head space. Not good.
Yep….I was mulling over saying anything about Ft Hood on Sunday….right in my backyard.
Government is broken.
Kill this entire bill.
I am
yep.
what are they applauding?!?!? (on the House floor)
Dingell presiding. On a total sell out. By all means, let’s applaud. NOT.
I guess having Rep. Dingell presiding
thanks! misery loves company.
I can’t bear to watch this. I have to tune it out and close down every window except the ones having to do with sermon—about open minds and Overton window no less.
ES, i saw your reply over at OL. to my comment. thanks so much, it’s been so frustrating that there has been no conversation about the pledge. jane is madly working the biologics issue, but over at OL they aren’t working any issue to improve the bill. just horse race stuff so i’d expect this would be a topic of discussion. it’s like i’ve entered an alternative universe. with no reply from chris at all.
(((revdeb)))
ditto
Now we have to watch many of them beat on their chest and continue to put fear in the public….Yawn
Republicans and some Blue Dogs = Health Scare
like the way they have it lined up…moving quickly
This healthcare bill is getting crappier by the minute. If the Senate version lacks the abortion amendment, it can be stripped out in conference, but there are already so many bad parts to this bill the best course would be to kill it. This won’t happen of course. As we predicted long ago, the Obama/Rahm strategy was to cater to the Blue Dogs and peel off progressives as needed. Meanwhile the majority of Democrats would go wherever their leadership pointed and vote for any bill they were presented with. Any healthcare bill that comes out of this Congress is going to be a steaming pile, but the Obama/Rahm strategy has been a resounding success, not for us really, more for corporate interests, but a great success in any case.
virtual radio silence since Medi-Neg. Rates was announced. I didn’t hear anything new when speaking with their offices this week – and none of them tweet – so would really appreciate hearing from anyone with a link
ah crap! did I just hear Woolsey support this bill ?
OL, particularly Bowers never embraced the term P.O. except as a term of convenience. He certainly never considered “robust”.
Considering his blog work on climate bills and health care this year… I think Bowers is a capitulating triangulating wannabe insider, over and above principles. It’s a crying shame.
At this point I have to wonder just what Dems would have to do the the health care bills to lose his support.
She said women make 77% less than men. That would be 33%
These guys are being so obnoxious. Call in the sergeant of arms Haul these guys out in cuffs “I object” “I object” “I object”
Call in the Sergeant of Arms
Dingell totally ineffective. Rethugs openly being . . . thugs. Dems looking helpless.
i participated in a phone town hall with my rep (mcgovern) on wednesday night. i got the first question and asked about his pledge. notes at the end of this thread:
http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/that-strange-biofuels-rider-in-the-house-managers-amendment/
short answer, i got blown off.
E-mailed my congresscritter – who is generally pretty good – and said that I wanted him to vote no on Stupak’s amendment, and if it gets into the final bill, then the bill is unacceptable and should be rejected. (And added a paragraph about my view of the GOP. Without actual profanity in it.)
he used to post on the progressive block strategy.
worse though, imo, was when he had three posts on costs within a few days (and had it wrong — conflating fed costs with total costs) i corrected him all three times and never got a response. there is so much misinformation (if i’m not wrong, which of course is always a possibility) from hcan, etc even here, i’ve found it very hard to figure out what is going on.
The rich white Republican men are freaking out “I object” “I object”
I revise my remarks: Dems are helpless. Hopelessly so.
Not that you asked, but I think you should. If the Word can’t help us in the context of our daily lives, I don’t know what it’s good for. There are really a lot of lessons to be learned. Courage, tolerance, the opportunity to see that we’re all in the same boat. You’ll be great, I bet!
looking at the cbo nov 2 letter, it looks to me like a family of four making $96,000 will be required to purchase insurance that, for the enrollee reference plan will cost $15,000 in premiums and $5,500 in average cost sharing for a total of $20,500/year. that’s 21.3% of their $96,000. and i don’t even know what the out of pocket max costs are.
this doesn’t strike me as “affordable” and will be a massive tax increase if they weren’t previously purchasing insurance. am i missing something?
Thanks….always consider yourself asked…
David Dayen
thank you for all your reportage
after months and a huge investment of personal time, here we are – and I have to work today&@^#%^! – but I know I’ll be able to follow everything through your work.
thank you so much
Hopey- Change ….Changey-Hope…it was a big truck load of manure.
yes thank you
Rep John Dingell is being so patient so clear with this circus.
oldnslow is in the other room – screaming at the tv of course – reminded him, per David’s admonition, through Repub parliamentary flim-flam, this circus could go on ’till Tuesday . . .he’s now switched channels and is happily following New Yankee Workshop
gotta go, hang in there firedogs – it’s just getting started
mad progressive love to all
backatcha!
Why is this even being discussed? It’s the damn law of the land.
The whole thing is beginning to smack of blatant unconstitutionality. first mandates, now Congress is going to make the insurance companies NOT cover something protected by law? We’re about to lose Roe, I can smell it!
So far the word “killing” has been used 17 times by those who object to the bill.
“freedom, job, health killing” bill
Burton “hope we do not get a hernia” carrying the pages of the bill
I continue to feel increasing disgust with the entire Democratic party.
We won’t allow Weiner’s single payer amendment, but we’ll allow the abortion amendment?!?!?!?! An NO ONE, not FDL, not kos, not a single person, has said that. They’ll allow abortion amendments but not single payer.
I’m done with the Democrats. A useless spineless party. I’ll vote green or communist from now on. But I cannot continue to support this corrupt of a party. And I would hope FDL wouldn’t either.
But tomorrow we’ll hear another fluff piece about how courageous someone who will sell us out in 2 weeks is.
worse, no kucinich amendemt to allow states to experiment with single payer. the dems want us all stuck in their effed up model of a mandated private insurance market.
i’m pretty sure this bill is going to make costs increase, except for those who will qualify for subsidized insurance (and don’t already have a subsidy).
is there any reliable info on this that anyone knows of?
o.k. now we are up to “killing” being repeated 23 times by those who oppose. Mostly repeating “job killing” bill. So now that AARP has given the green light the new focus is “job killing” “job killing”
One fellow Rep Carter blew it and said “job keeping” oops
I asked my Rep if the expansion of Medicaid would be funded and his aide sent me a BS treatise on Medicare advantage…so I still haven’t gotten a straight answer.
I think this is going to make the whole mess worse, not better for US
dogged for sure, – heroic?
ok, maybe that was a little over the top, but have you tried liveblogging a long committee or floor debate?
the level of ignorance, misinformation and downright dishonest propaganda has been mind blowing. i don’t think our reps have any idea what they are doing. otherwise they would be able to explain it.
Imagine how Rep. Anthony Weiner feels. He withdrew his propsosal for a single-payer system, specifically to prevent Stupak’s amendment from getting to the floor. And now this?
Kill this Frankenstein mis-creation, call members of the progressive caucus and tell them that there is no longer a reform bill left worthy of passing. Let them patch a few existing laws like preexisting conditions, let them adjust fees to wages or inflation, and be done.
Goddammed this is unreal.
PLEASE PROGRESSIVES. KILL THIS BIG HEAPING PILE OF FECAL MATTER!
This is unbelievable. Basically go back to outlawing abortions (unless, of course you’re rich. But wait, aren’t the rich right wingers? I mean THEY won’t be getting abortions, will they?….*cough* *cough* *spit*) just like pre-RvW. Unfuckingbelievable. If the progressives cave on this, then I not only am giving up on blue dog Democrats, but I’m giving up on the Party as a whole. THIS IS BULLSHEEEIIITTT!
armed with an index finger on each hand? – fuckno.
was that the deal? do you have a link for that?
wow.
at this point, listening to the idiot republicans is about the only thing that could get me to consider supporting this bill.
FUCK the idiot Republicans *spit*.
(Sorry, I’m in a DAMNED foul mood after seeing this bullshit)
Some of the repeated statements of those who oppose “government takeover, job killing, massive tax increase, job killing, increase debt, job killing, medicare cuts, job killing, job killing, massive tax increases, crushing debt, job killing, 4 million jobs loss, debt, job killing,job killing”,
Sure wish some of these people would have been so concerned about our nations debt when they passed the 2002 war resolution. Lots of “debt” from that war based on the Bush administrations “pack of lies” and lots of “killing killing killing”
They sure get off on saying that word when it comes to health care reform. Really odd
right because a lefty couldn’t have actual objections to this corporate bailout.
i’ve never been so convinced about the brokenness of our fed gov. used to be i thought the problem resided mostly with the idiot Rs. now i see the Ds don’t appear to be capable of good governance either.
we are so fucked.
Froomkin at HuffPuff suggests we should be in the streets banging pots and pans, – I fully agree. Then, he suggests that without this popular show of hands Obama lacks the clout to push his agenda – wtf? Bush didn’t give a fuck about polls, – he was a leader with his eyes on the prize, and so is Obama. Fuck Froomkin,- nonetheless we need to organize street demonstrations, where are our community organizers? What’s going on?
I hope every woman who was around at the time and bought into the slogan “You’ve come a long way, baby” recognizes they are still 2nd class citizens.
I know there is much more to be angry about in today’s circus – but
right now, I’m finding the discrimination in women’s health care infuriating.
this IS the pro-choice world’s fucking fault. I’m 49, oh, BTW, genetic plumbing means I’ve never had, personnaly for me, and I’ll never have, personally for me, to choose!
I remember my aunts and mother being pissed at their priests and the catholic church in the 60′s when they were told to stay barefoot and pregnant … and that was the end of the church for them.
IF it is sold correctly, 90++% of the country does NOT want their neighbor’s guru, rabbi, priest, bishop, minister, sensai in their OWN
bedroom,
kid’s classroom,
doctor’s office,
place of worship …
Why the fuck are we dealing with these flat earthers? well, unfortuneately cuz the relatively affluent politically active pro-choice crowd is so $ocially homogeneou$ that they do NOT work outside their own little clique$,
hence their pathetic ass message is ALWAYS just preaching to the planned-parenthood-board-of-director talbot’s set,
hence they do NOT whomp these flat earth 12th century fucks back into the maggot slime caves they belong in,
hence our pathetic ‘progressives’ are spending yet another day pissing & shitting in their diapers about how mean meanies are being … mean.
ugh.
rmm.
i haven’t read froomkin, so maybe i’m misunderstanding? but from what i’ve seen of obama’s agenda, i have no desire to support it – bankster bailouts, insurance industry bailouts, no regulation, no jobs program, no universal healthcare,…..
Undergoing “marriage counseling” in the Catholic Chruch in the fifties, I
was told my spouse could not be refused “his marital rights” even if he was
inebriated. Left both church and fiance and never looked back. I was 17
at the time.
“Marital rights???”"
Jeebus H Crackers. A man has a right to womans body? (Now I’ll admit there’s been a time or two where I wished that were so… but that is bullshit)
FUCK the Catholic church. And good for you for never looking back.
exactly! We should be in the streets demanding that he Fires Geithner and Lawrence, declares himself for Medicare plus, insists that Stimulus be directed at creating the most jobs possible, propose to cut foreign entanglement budget (DOD) by 30% while assuring the chickenshits among us that we will still have the biggest fucking arsenal by far over the next potential adversary, declares GWOT to be utter BS in terms of the tactics required to fight it (police action), etc.
He does that and we will demonstrate in his support, yes. Now, however. we should show our deep displeasure with his lack of leadership, and also show that for every T-bagger we can mobilize 5 Democrats in the Streets.
Froomkin:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/06/want-obama-to-be-bolder-t_n_348969.html
If people don’t hit the streets in very big numbers and very soon, the corporatists will declare the experiment over.
Do you know this?? In my local small town (Leesburg, Va), we had a candlelit get together every Thursday evening in protest of the Iraq war and demanding the boys and girls be sent home. I can’t tell you how many of those evenings it was less than 10 folks.
I remember the 60′s seemed to be a time when crowds would mobilize over sometimes small things. Yet today with the internet, cell phones, etc… I dunno. Americans seemingly have become…. disengaged? Something.
That’s the major problem. The left is seemingly unable to get people in the streets (as is the rites-but I don’t worry about their problems.)
It seems to me citizens of the 21st century look at successful movements of the 1960′s as somehow passe. I don’t understand that stance.
I participated in an FDL book salon last week and asked the author what role physical demonstrations must play in getting a progressive agenda traction. He sloughed off the legitimate question as if I wanted to overturn Roe. It was as if progressives and people in the streets have no place in the same room. Way to sell a book.
The sorry thing about this is that Weiner was forced to withdraw his single payer amendment from a floor vote and this piece of garbage goes to the floor? Notice how Maddow didn’t bring that up last night on her show after Weiner has been featured vowing to stand tough in the face of this onslaught.
Everyone who voted for Obama, with the exception of the Wall Street crowd and the health care industry, has been screwed.
NO BILL is better than this piece of garbage.
Just more Deny, Delay, Defend, Distract and Distort.