Let’s face it. Republicans think that the world is 6,000 years old and that Obama is the love child of Elvis and a Martian, that Democrats engage in human sacrifice even though they are atheistic socialists. This is not to say the Democrats have a clue policy-wise or that they are completely bought and paid for by corporations. It is just that the Republicans are so much nuttier.

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Is there really any hope for America if so many people are this delusional?

When Gore actually won in 2000 and had the presidency stolen from him by a partisan Supreme Court, we were just sore losers.

When Obama won in 2008 by a large landslide, it was somehow stolen?

Sadly I can’t say I’m surprised by this, but if that large of a percentage of people are so detached from reality what hope is there for our democracy?

Hoffman is an ass. ACORN doesn’t even operate in NYS’ 23rd!!!

These jackasses will say anything.

barack didn’t win by 500 votes when his bro was the governor of a state, did he? but let’s not let facts deter them.

It has always been thus, will always be thus. This is nothing new in human history. You will always have a loony fringe to whom their own shadows seem frightening. Press forward and keep fighting, it is our only option.

It is just that the Republicans are so much nuttier.

it’s time we stopped using benign terms like “nutty” to describe them. their actions are deliberate.

Projection or sucker-punch for future GOP election theft?

We know they have the experience.

a majority of Republicans believe that ACORN stole the Presidential election for Barack Obama.

The difference is that all Democrats know for a fact that Gore actually won in 2000 and that’s what casts doubt on the legitimacy of the electoral process.

Republicans were hacking, rigging, fixing and stealing elections during the Bush regime, which ruled until January, 2009. Millions and millions of votes counted by electronic machines controlled by privately-run and Republican-directed corporations such as Diebold. Chuck Hagel (R – Nebraska) (retired) started this GOP electronic election theft back in 1997, when he ran and was elected as a severe underdog on senatorial elections counted on his own corporate electronic voting machines, not even a measly paper trail was given. Just search the internet for terms such as “republican electronic election theft, diebold.”

and some of my earlier comments:

In the November 2004 Presidential election, some thirty million votes were cast electronically without any auditable paper trails. These insecure, hackable voting machines were built and operated by Diebold, ES&S, Sequois, Triad and SAIC, five secretive right-wing Republican voting machine manufacturers. About 3/4s of all our votes were then tabulated on insecure, hackable electronic tabulating machines by Diebold and ES&S, with proprietary (secret) software. Throw in the highly accurate exit polls which pointed to a landslide Kerry victory on November 2 and you have the perfect electoral fraud storm.

In 2002, the Republican Party staged their test run of controlling the new Diebold computerized paper-trail-free electronic voting systems that were installed in every precinct in the State of Georgia. It worked like a charm. Two popular Democratic incumbents, the Governor Roy Barnes and Senator Max Cleland, were both “defeated” by Republican challengers. The Democrats were both ahead by several points in both the pre-election voter opinion polls and in the election day exit polls, yet the Diebold voting machines declared the two Republican challengers as winners. The local media claimed to be “amazed” by this election “upset.” They should have been horrified and outraged. These elections were stolen electronically. There was no paper trail, no recount was possible and for good measure, Diebold Corporation “accidentally erased” the disputed 2002 election returns data from their computer hard disk drives a few days after the election. How convenient, how clean, how slick and how crooked is Republican election theft in the 21st century.

Australia, Canada and many other nations use the traditional hand-counted paper ballots in their national elections. Canada completes an honest vote count by hand, usually within 24-hours of the closing of the voting booths. Can’t we Americans wait for a few hours to get an honest, open, legitimate election vote count?

We will never get our democracy back until all the computerized voting machines are unceremoniously dumped into the nearest body of water. Traditional hand-counted paper ballots will restore our democracy and help end this national nightmare of Tsunami Bush.

23 January 2005

Yes, their actions are deliberate, but they are also quite completely insane.

That incredible scene in “Fahrenheit 911″ in which Gore summarily dismisses the evidence of the Congressional Black Caucus still haunts me.

Yes, I always listen carefully to GOP accusations because it usually tips their hand of some shenanigans they themselves are plotting.

This map always makes me, a factually based human, feel better about the election results.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/

And when they can’t win elections by fraud, cheating, etc., Karl Rove had
“his girls” go after Don Siegelman, which apparently Obama is all hunky dory with.

I wholeheartedly agree. Paper ballots. thank you.

This is just flatulence … wait a bit and it will all dissipate… Just like the Repuke Party is doing.. just takes a bit longer than flatulence takes..

I hear you, but I respectfully disagree. The so-called “base,” or the teabaggers are pretty delusional, but as one commenter posted, they are immersed in fundamentalist/authoritarian religious beliefs that posit that the world is 6000 years old, creationism makes sense, etc. I suppose we could call such people nutty (and, yes, I have, too), but I think they are more accurately deliberately brainwashed.

Those doing the brainwashing are NOT nutty in the slightest. I have stood on my “soapbox” in some other blogs positing that we left-of-center types may need to shift our perspectives and stop focusing on the teabaggers, or the 29%, or whatever we want to call them. Some may be nutty, some are definitely delusional, all are being brainwashed to a greater or lesser extent.

The fact that the “belief” exists that BHO didn’t legitmately win gives me pause. My fundie family started spouting this nonsense on 11/5/08, and the drumbeat has just gotten louder. I got chapter & verse very early about BHO either didn’t legitmately win at all, or at the least, he only won by about 500 votes. They were dead serious.

It is the corporations, including Doug Coe & the C Street Family (which includes far too many Democrats, like Stupack), who are responsible for these “talking points.” As we all know well here, said talking points are then churned out into the mass media. It’s not just Fox, anymore, either. It’s almost ALL news outlets of any kind, plus they are blasting out rightwing talking points emails all the time (written by some corporate whore).

The question is: HOW do we combat this?

Even though I, too, have taken great delight in dissing the teabaggers and calling them all kinds of names or mocking them, I’m now of the strong belief that we mostly need to move away from such commentary.

Truly our opponents are NOT the teabaggers, so much. We really have to figure out how to fight our real opponents, which are corporations, as well as corrupt, bought politicians. HOW can we fight these opponents BETTER? Mocking teabaggers will only get us so far. The corporations are still controlling the conversation far too much, even on the left.

This will help if enough citizens demand it: http://youstreet.org/
Check it out you WILL like what you see…

lurve me edit

Republics also believe that Decider Bush was fairly elected in 2000. It will not be possible to combat this so long as Limpy Limbaugh and his clones are allowed to broadcast, unchallenged, hours of hate and misinformation.

When the Supreme Court decides the case with the jackass that made the Hillary movie and virtually gives the power to control elections to corporations we are f#*ked anyway. Voters will believe a 30 second sound bite because they’re too damn lazy to think for themselves. And we damn well know the Roberts court will side with corporations. They have time and time again. Revolution is the only answer. Given the outcome of the 2000 and 2004 elections brings to mind the Stalin quote “Those who cast the votes decide nothing, those who count the votes decide everything”.

I don’t believe for a minute that 52% of Rs think that Acorn stole the election. They may say that but they don’t believe it. They KNOW that Obama was elected but they follow the talking points for the day. If 52% believed that we would have to open lots of new places to put the insane. Rs just say things – words lost their meaning quite a few years ago, along with truth, decency and self-control.

words lost their meaning quite a few years ago, along with truth, decency and self-control

Yet another side effect from the rise of Limpy Limbaugh.

Total OT: Giuliani running for U.S. Senate and has eye on the White House. Hubris, thy name is Rudy. link

Doesn anyone, ie. mods or other behind the curtain peoples, know if Jane is going to be on MSNBC? I do understand that news shows have flexable, changing schedules. But, Blech!, the covered the Going Rogue Tour. I think we should calle it the Going Rouge Tour.
Anyone? Will Jane be on or not?
If not, Jane, I hope they had tasty goodies in the green room.
Nevermind…here she is……coming up.

I can’t stop gagging. The idea of this man having a forum to speak is just too much.

she is on now demi..

On the other hand, we KNOW (have evidence) that G. W. Bush was legitimately elected in 2000, and then stole the 2004 election with rigged machines.

I suspect that more than a few of them are Libertarian Ron Paul supporters.

What I said.

I Haven’t seen the film, but if it is the counting of the electoral college ballots, a member of the senate must co-sign the request. they were all cowards shocking i know).

LoL

Nahant, thanks anyway. Once I saw she was on, I went and watched.
Gosh. I’m wondering why they chose Jane to go up against that dickhead about the trip. I was hoping for something about Health Reform and the letter Jane got to the Senate Committee.
PS. That guy, John something is kinda stupid and weird. David tried, but didn’t get anything out of it. Just my take on it.
Nap time for me, before I burst.

Agreed. It’s a fine line there. My sister is part of the crowd that now disavows the Republics as being too liberal. I try to avoid any discussion with her because she becomes incoherent with rage (why? no reason, but an abundance of anger seems to be the going thing) when “discussing” politics.

I hear tell that my family now call themselves “Libertarians” but have no clue what that really means to them. But they are mad as hell, and they’re not going to take it anymore. And they are being taxed beyond all belief (even though they’re not).

and so on… and so I do see that the meme of “BHO didn’t win” is their fantasy. But I also do believe that the corporations are pumping it out in a real effort to de-legitimize this adminstration, and I have real concern about that.

There’s a lesson for us. It’s not just hypocrisy, I think Republicans have such a lack of creativity that they are just incapable of thinking than anyone would act differently than they would in the same situation.

That’s why they accuse Obama/Acorn of cheating, because they know they would (and have) in our situation. And I’m sure they are working with whatever the
Republican equivalent of Acorn is to actually do all the things they accuse Acorn of doing. So watch out, you know it’s coming.

What’s expected?

The GOP have stolen so many elections the expect the same behavior form all.

When you cheat and then loose, you believe its was unfair, because you expect all to cheat.

When you’ve fuck up the economy and fucked up national security so badly that bath are severely damaged, and these were your strengths, you can either accept blame or deny and blame others. There is no shortage of denials, right Sarah?

Pot calling kettle black?

Thom Hartmann was talking today about all the presidential elections the Republicans have stolen(make that all of them since at least Eisenhower) this is projection again.

It’s time to begin portraying Republicans as hypocritical anti-democratic, totalitarians that are dangerous to the health of the nation. Who is in disagreement with that? It’s up to progressives to spread the word so our grandchildren will never have to worry about Republicans again.

To put these polls into perspective, I think we have to look at the changng geography of the Republican Party. The kind of views the poll picks up are current in the South, and especially in the lily white Appalachians and their Mountain State offshoots. They geographically concentrated, and from the standpoint do not represent a threat as long as mainstream Republicans like the Country Club Rethugs outside of Texas and Florida go on issues like this. They need a new home. There is an opportunity for a long-view political reformer to build up a center right party like the original Republicans did in 1856, when they had to deal with among others, the Know-Nothings.

If that sensible right catches hold, the crazies will have no place to go except not vote. But I doubt they will stop voting, and so will support the Center-Right.

The true Republicans, and there are surprisingly, a lot of them still left, have got to come out of the closet and claim their party back, or else start a new party.

How far are we away from the time a Republican leader, like Cheney, or a Republican General, like McChrystal, seizes power claiming that the Democrat , say Obama, is illegitimate? — This is no longer unrealistic. Indeed it can happen here. The foundations have been laid since Clinton was nearly driven from office for a blow job. -

Thanks Nahant; been pushing you street for awhile now. BUT, I’d still like to see people weigh in on the so-called debates(which aren’t).

this is what happens when democrats, independents, and disinterested sane people allow republican lunacy to go unchallenged. Sure republican politicians are universally insane, and republicans/conservatives control the corporate media where most Americans get all of their information, and which media universally promotes republicans and denigrate democrats, but no matter how stacked it is against honesty, truth, and integrity, sane decent people should be outraged and must not stand by idly while republicans dominate all conversation with the violent insane rhetoric.

Agreed, but HOW to challenge this b.s. in any really meaningful or effective way is the question.

We’ve all seen how when Democrats/leftists/progressives protest, for ex the Iraq war (in numerous demos some years ago), the media simply doesn’t cover it or covers it in a very slanted & dishonest way, definitely & deliberately downgrading the numbers of protestors, etc.

Yet when teabaggers are paid to be bused in by corporations, the media not only radically inflates the numbers in attendance, but plays a big role in hyping up the action on the ground.

How do we counteract that? It’s been reported on in various ways on the left – via MSNBC and blogs – and shown how dishonest the reporting is, but most people out there don’t see the truth. They are fed the fiction over and over. I’ve even watched the BBC spew out lies and distortions about the teabagger rallies.

So, how do we combat and counteract this?

I think many feel that feet-on-the-ground protests aren’t going to make much difference in such a media environment, and teabaggers will make up fiction about it anyway to make themselves feel better.

And so, how do we make common cause with “sensible & sane” Republicans and other independents to stand up for our rights, to get the real truth out, and to have our government be morally responsible (not asking for much, am I? and yet, it shouldn’t be so difficult)??

I think many on the left are definitely challenging the lies in the media, but what other avenues can we pursue?

Amen to that. There will always be a percentage of flat-earthers, birthers, creationists, Palinists(wd?), anti-ACORNists, etc.

Note that Owens won, so did Obama, the great majority of USAmericans consider themselves more liberal than conservative. As our population increases and ages, new ideas are accepted and developed.

We are moving forward; yet there will be loud Limbaughs, Becks, Palins etc. around to rally those troops even in the face of facts. Don’t be swayed by their screeches.

We challenge by winning elections. Consider that if we liberals win elections and they conservatives cry foul, then we still win. Especially when they cry “ACORN!” or “unions!” to heal their wounds, they show, as Hoffman has here, that he is truly off the wall.

Possibly. But that’s not what we have now. The president has many tools that he isn’t using – thank god because there’s no immediate need. So we must continue working with the confidence that historically, society progresses, though never in a linear direction.

The US is built to be a 2-party nation. The parties change about every 60 years, so we’re about due. Note that 3rd parties can sometimes make a difference in races, but that they’ll never usurp power from the 2.
However, social and political changes will raise and lower the parties’ stature. It’s important to work in the political system (somewhere) to help bring about this change.
That’s why the GOP is on its way out. Its clinging to all it has just to stay afloat. Realize that it’s mostly an Appalachian white male party now, though there is still enough strength in that area – and enough fear for the party to spread – that it can remain.

“a majority of Republicans”

How many is that at this point? eleven? twelve?

At this point, I’m more worried about the threat our own party leaders pose to our liberties than anything that the remaining Flat-Earthers may come up with.

The GOP used to be good at winning elections – not good at governing. For the past few cycles (not counting GWB), it hasn’t been good at winning/stealing elections. The reason it’s moving rightward is not because it feels that is better for America, it’s moving rightward because it feels the only way to beat the Democrats is to present a distinct product.

I love these maps (first saw them in the Stranger, Seattle). This is one place I get my optimism. The cities v rural areas, 3d projections, state maps, all lead to the conclusion that we are moving toward a more purple world.

Hoffman will lose (again) even by his fanciful ACORN and union accusations.
The ACORN poll in the story is useless. Political polls can be useful leading up to an event (election) but 1 year later there has been immeasurable trash entered into the social sphere by the GOP. It’s surprising the % was only in the 50s. There are no immediate consequences for the polling audience.