After last night’s epic cave-in on the Lieberman health care bill, I thought I’d just give a big-picture view of where we’re at right now:
• As has been reported everywhere, Lieberman basically got everything he wanted with staggering speed. While there are no specific lists of what’s now in the bill and what’s out, all indications are that every piece that liberals swapped in exchange for the public option will be removed, and the public option won’t be triggered but eliminated.
• And that’s not all. Another major addition in the mystery “deal” on the public option, the extension of the medical loss ratio to 90% (meaning that insurance companies would have to spend at least 90% of premiums on medical care), took a major hit from the CBO, and an ideological one at that. Doug Elmendorf basically said that such a medical loss ratio would make the private insurance industry into a government entity, “so that all payments related to health insurance policies should be recorded as cash flows in the federal budget.” This would make the health care bill cost several trillion dollars in CBO’s eyes despite the fact that nothing would have materially changed, and so this arbitrary decision basically killed the medical loss ratio, at least at 90% (it’s unclear what the magic MLR number is that turns the private insurance market into a government entity; Elmendorf didn’t explain it, just saying that it was somewhere between 85% and 90%).
One question for those who argued that liberals could easily bargain away the public option for something really valuable and good – how does “nothing” sound to you?
• This, of course, has made Lieberman beam with joy, thrilled with the prospect of making every liberal in America eat dirt.
Mr. Lieberman could not be happier. He is right where he wants to be — at the center of the political aisle, the center of the Democrats’ efforts to win 60 votes for their sweeping health care legislation. In short, he is at the center of everything and he loves it.
“My wife said to me, ‘Why do you always end up being the point person here?’ ” he said, flashing a broad grin in an interview on Monday.
And he finished off this with a dash of circular logic:
“People have said to me, including some people in the caucus: ‘We know you are for health care reform. You know how important this is to the president. Would you yourself stop this from happening?’ ” he said.
“So I say: ‘There is a wonderful core health care reform bill on the Senate floor. Would my liberal friends in the caucus stop that from happening and prevent the president from getting this major goal that he has set because they want to add more on to that? Why won’t they be reasonable?’ ”
It’s not even worth rebutting this, considering how every single compromise in this legislation has come from the liberal side of things.
• The other thing we know is that Lieberman really doesn’t like anyone mentioning his wife’s long history torpedoing health care reform:
One thing he wouldn’t tolerate were questions about his wife’s longtime connection to the health care industry, and whether she should keep her position with a breast-cancer advocacy organization.
“I just think that’s over the edge and offensive to me. My wife is a private citizen and she’s working for a movement that aims at reducing or finding a cure for breast cancer,” he said. “It’s just deeply offensive to me.”
Yes, it’s those darn uncouth liberals who are the source of all the problems. Not the woman lobbying with pharmaceutical interests who are fighting generic versions of life-saving drugs for, among other illnesses, breast cancer.
• At his press conference after last night’s meeting, Sen. Reid said this bill would pass the full Senate next week, without explaining what in blue blazes the bill is. But Chris Bowers gets confirmation of the schedule:
The cloture motion on health care reform will be filed either tomorrow or Thursday, setting up a vote two days later. With a very crowded legislative schedule, and demands from the White Hosue to pass the bill in 2009, there really isn’t any other option. My bet is that Olympia Snowe will probably vote for the bill now, as will Roland Burris. All of this makes even the unlikely prospect of a no vote from Bernie Sanders on the cloture motion irrelevant. Barring further mendacity, this bill now has sixty votes.
The cloture motion Bowers is talking about is just the first of three. The other two cloture motions that would have to be filed and surmounted, given the one legislative day between filing and the vote, puts final passage right around Christmas Day. And since the Senate’s on a White House-set schedule all of a sudden to secure passage by the end of the year, they had to give Lieberman basically everything to stay on that schedule.
• About the only avenue left to improve the Senate bill at all is a vote on the reimportation of prescription drugs from Canada and other countries abroad, which gets a vote today, per unanimous consent agreement. However, side by side with that vote on the amendment sponsored by Byron Dorgan is that “safety” amendment from Frank Lautenberg, a poison pill which would tangle reimportation in so many safety and feasibility studies that it would kill the intent of the bill.
Dorgan said Lautenberg’s amendment is “designed to kill our effort to allow the reimportation of drugs and put the brakes on skyrocketing drug prices.” He called the safety argument “completely bogus.”
Given that the Senate leadership has stripped the cost-control provisions of the public option and Medicare buy-in, they arguably NEED the Dorgan amendment to pass just to get a favorable CBO score. PhRMa has reportedly been renegotiating its deal under the threat of this amendment, and last night Reid and others vowed to move toward the House’s version of closing the Medicare Part D “doughnut hole” on prescription drugs. This is clearly designed to give Democratic Senators an out to vote against Dorgan’s amendment while still doing something to cut away at drug industry profits. We shall see if it’s enough to block passage.
One other tidbit from Reid and company’s vow to close the doughnut hole – they plan to do this through conference committee. Meaning there may actually be one with the House, instead of ping-ponging the bill to the lower chamber.



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Jesus Mary and Joseph they have all become Liebocrats. How in the hell did Liarman keeps his mug shot in the center of the issue. He has created the storm. The Obama administration wants this weak reform for Obama’s legacy more than they want it for the people. This is pathetic.
Liarman knows that the Dems will pay a big price for this next fall. There is no way Progressives will work for the Dems the way they have.
So Liarman(and he is a liar through and through) wins, trumps the needs of40 million Americans, keeps his chairmanship and helps the Dems lose next fall all in one swoop. May Liarman get what he deserves for fucking over the uninsured
This is all about Rahm thinking that what killed the Dems in 1994 was not having a health care reform bill, when in fact Rahm’s demoralizing the Dem base with the NAFTA sellout he pushed had a lot more to do with Dems staying home in ’94.
This is not Lieberman. This is the old guard of the Democratic party asserting itself and cementing it’s affiliation with corporate interests. These are the same people who campaigned for Leiberman against Lamont and who helped fund his re-election. He is not betraying them, he is providing them cover.
So, what should we do?
Recognize that this bill is a huge betrayal of America and work to kill it. Work to support those progressives who help kill it and to undermine those Democrats who are enabling this fiasco.
What good is a majority if the results only serve to push a progressive further into the ground?
This is not health care reform, this has morphed into a multi billion dollar “bailout” of an already obscenely profitable health insuranc e and pharmaseutical industry.
This si simply a corporate giveaway at taxpayer epxense. It should not be allowed to pass, ad if passed should be vetoed.
Of course, what ought to happen and what will happen, not the same thing.
Rahm just complety blew 2010. What Dem is going to turn out to vote after thsi betrayal? Musch less doante money or volunteer time?
Don’t these people know how to read public opinion polls? What part of 80% favor a public option did they not understand?
could not get in here all day yesterday, still can’t using ie today but figured I’d try in in firefox and here I am
I hope the web masters are looking into that, it affecting traffic
anyway, I sure hope the progressives will prevent this bill from passing, I haven’t read the comments but is there a chance of that?
Has Markos finally smelled the coffee?
Has Jane?
To a one time, (log ago) liberal Republican, these times are a painful reminder of the Reagan Revolution. Where has the liberal contingent of the GOP gone? Those that have stayed in have tunned into Snowe, Collins, Specter and the tragic Kristy T. Whitman.
I really don’t know what we should or shall do. Staying within seems to lead inevitably to corruption. Third parties haven’t worked since the Whigs’ self-destruction fueled the GOP. Maybe a strong block? I do think there must be strong organizing locally..
I don’t see why, after the final insurance industry enhancement bill is passed & the President has signed it, Harry Reid can’t get Medicare expansion &/or Medicaid expansion & whatever else that has a $$ amount on it thru the Senate via reconciliation. President Lieberman is having his moment, but it won’t be long before he’s toast.
Anyway, thanks for the update.
The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com
What I have said right along-
A 20% Corporate Welfare Tax for the privilege of repealing Roe v. Wade.
No Public Option, No Mandate!
This is really hard for me to stomach. Not just Lieberman’s role in it but the betrayal of the will of the majority of the citizens of this country. I am for single-payer health care but was willing to accept the “Public Option”. I was learning and evaluating the Medicare buy-in but this “compromise” is too much. There is almost nothing left of value in this boondoggle.
How soon before the low information voter figures out it was a giveaway to corp interests?
Yup.
We’ll fix it later.
Haven’t you had enough of bullshit promises?
We may have Roland Burris. From Open Left:
Open Left reports ~ Sen. Roland Burris, D-Ill. is the only Senate Democrat who has said he would oppose a bill without a public option. They call for Progressives to show their support for Illinois’ Senator Burris’ refusal to “just pass anything’ ~
We should show we have his back, and give him every possible support to
stand steadfastly opposed against the Lieberman capitulation bill during the
important meeting at the WH today. Pls contact Senator Burris bureau asap and
tell the staffers that you support him making a stand for the people, and
against the interest of the industry, especially Lieberman donor Aetna! http://burris.senate.gov/conta...
BTW Senator Wyden looked totally whipped last night. He knew he was full of shit when he said that this bill is worth voting for as a foundation for the future. No Way. Go with reconciliation and take another half year doing it if necessary. Change the Senate rules and grow a pair but do not vote this POS non-compromise into law.
I shant be holding my breath.
Can yu imagine if the Clintons had been re-elected? We are much better with this bill and complaining about it than no bill and complaining about that. Gotta start somewhere and the fact that the insurance industry represented by Lieberman would not go for an extension of health insurance in the form of a medicare extension is no surprise. In fact none of this is a surprise. The Clinton democrats from the red states went with the insurance folks. What’s new?
Well, obamarahma will get what they want with the leadership of the real leader of the senate, joeLIE, leading the way. I now see that not only was obama not progressive (as I knew), but not in any way a real leader. It is getting harder and harder for the obama supporters to continue to say what great things he has planned or accomplished. “Make me do it” was never going to be achieved; it was actually “try to make me do it, but there is no way that I will go against the big corps.”
We all know that Holy Joe is a scumbag who will do and/or say anything to advance his personal agenda. My question is this: What, exactly, is his personal agenda? Is he positioning for a cushy gig post Senate? I have to believe it’s something like that. There just has to be some serious cash flowing – or about to flow. Why else would he do this (besides narcissistic personality disorder, of course).
Call your broker and invest in insurance stocks.
Maybe you can make enough in the stock market to pay for your health insurance premiums./s
There’s a strategy..
Kinda says it all, n’est pas?
in other news….WE GOT LOTS OF MONEY FOR WAR!!
health care industrymedical insurance corpsadding a little accuracy as words do have meaning despite the accelerated subversion of our language.
karen
Kinda like giving a homeless person a dime and feeling good about it. It doesn’t do the homeless person one bloody bit of good if a bed and shelter is what she needs.
you’re really missing the point of joe, a little spite doesn’t hurt but that’s not why he did this
he did this because he is a republican
he only votes dem when the vote doesn’t mean anything either way, for instance if the dems win with or without his vote he’ll vote dem, if the dems lose with or without his vote he’ll vote dem
but when his vote is swing he votes republican, he is a judas sheep
I think Lieberman is doing the country a great service. The current bill is unsustainable and he is the only democrat who appears to understand that.
We are not “Much Better With THis Bil” than nothing. SEE:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/15/814244/-Call-to-Defeat-the-billits-time-
The Senate will be in session today to debate (for five hours) three amendments and a motion [see here, to include both Dorgan and Lautenberg, as dday says] starting at 10 a.m. But the Senate will be recessed from 12:45 p.m. until 3:15 p.m., for the “caucus luncheons” (and, for the Democrats, the White House Audience from 1:30 to 2:30 p.m.). So actual voting on these four measures won’t be underway until after 3:15 p.m. this afternoon.
http://c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN2_rm.aspx
I was thinking about his little joke with Cheney in the VP debate..his joke was about not telling his wife about the more money to be made in
the private sector…well, we are certainly learning more about her + likely where he will be headed. He was such a non-entity for Gore..Goot riddance if he is ready for a new career plan.
Another victory for the milititary/industrial/medical/media complex. Is this a great country or what?
this bill is more damaging then no bill, far better to trash this one and let obama know he’s not going to get a second term
obama=fail even to democrats, not the right man for the job at all
Really something that he did not recognize that the unnecessary and immoral war in Iraq was unsustainable. Obvious it could give a rats ass about the hundreds of thousands who have died in the war based on a “pack of lies” and he was one of the liars.
Billions on an unnecessary war that he pushed.
Your comment just does not make any sense. Either does Liarnman
tough to just blame Leiberman…
WHITE HOUSE CUTTING DEAL WITH PHRMA TO GET HOUSE VERSION OF CONCESSIONS IN EXCHANGE FOR SENATE DEMOCRATS VOTING TO GUT DORGAN REIMPORTATION AMENDMENT!!!!
Call your Senator and tell them NOT to give in to Rahm PRESSURE!!!
Agree with Kos — KILL THE BILL!!!!!
In a perverse way Elmendorf has embraced a point the left has been pressing for over a century now. Properly administered, medical insurance is a government function, no less so than police and fire protection. Elmendorf backs into this insight almost unawares, in shocked response to a request that our dysfunctional insurers stop gouging their customers and deliver what they are supposedly in business to do.
Developed countries that use private insurers regulate their insurers’ profits. Their social contracts make it criminal to pad premiums to generate profits till they sing the siren song of the capital markets. As a countermeasure, they shift risks (as in the Netherlands) so companies do not have to go under in the course of carrying out their public function.
The overarching point lost sight of in these United States is that all of our corporations live perpetual lives of limited liability by the grace of government. Here this notion is considered prelude to a human rights violation. How far we’ve sunk as compared to the rest of the world, but it’s all implicit in this CBO score.
The war in Iraq probably was necessary though poorly executed and if it had not been fought in 2003 it would be fought at some time – probably would have started a few years later as Saddam became more aggressive.
LIEberman is a douche, no question about it. What person would vote against his own bill? Someone who is who is so greedy, he is willing to do anything to get his money and power. It also helps to hate liberals who tell it like it is.
I feel sorry for Conneticut I wonder how they feel to have the most hated senator in the nation…
Cat In Seattle
Right, the messaging has to be clear. Despite Ezra Klein, this is PR solution and a PR solution is no solution at all. It will not be accepted. End of story. If the dems loose big, it is more likely the dogs loose than the progressives and the lesson should be clear. The dogs are on the wrong side of history!
medical
insurancecasino corps — to be even more specific.karen
rahm acts on obama’s will and pleasure, you cannot seperate the two
obama was a student of lieberman, I do believe we’ve been had voting “a change we can believe”
I have seen the Canadian system first hand as well as the British NHS (The best medicine Pakistan can provide). Trust me you don’t want it if you have been there.
i despise lieberman too, but i seriously doubt this is lieberman’s doing on his own.
don’t miss pow wow’s excellent deconstruction:
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/18912#comment-107907
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/18788
I’m guessing you’re a city dweller. Most fire departments are not official government functions.
This is the plan the Blue Dogs support. The Blue Dogs rule the party.
let’s not forget;
lieberman is here because of obama, he has seats at tables of power because of obama and it was obama who told rahm to tell reid to deal with lieberman
it’s beginning to look as though lieberman finally got the vice presdident spot after all, running defense for the president
And you are willing to murder hundreds of thousands of people for “probably”? You my friend are sick, sick, sick.
Once upon a time a newly elected American President and his Party came to WashingtonDC and looking around decided to bring up reform of American healthcare and proceeded to put the word out that Obama WH and the D Party was open for business as in campaign contributions.
K Street welcomed the move as moving money around is what K Street does.
Soon all the big entrenched interests found in American healthcare regime surely went over to war footing to resist any changes number one or to modifiy any changes to reduce impact.
The Obama WH had a big production at the WH where President Obama hosted an array of American healthcare regime players and interested parties. It made for a good day of WH live television too. A pretty “democratic” setting and it sure looked like this time around healthcare reform was going to be done “smart” and not like how the Clintons did it back in the 1990′s.
Single Payer concept was taken off the table very early on by Barack Obama.
He just was not going to invest his political capital in that flight of fancy we were told but here was this Public Option which was a pretty good idea too. So it was going to be a Public Option that would go forward.
Well we know what happened in Congress and we know who the D Party put in positions of gatekeepers in the U.S.Senate. Max Baucus and his Gang of Six were clearly given the WH greenlight to do what they did or did not.
President Obama made it clear he was behind Max Baucus.
The Public Option was often pushed down by this Obama WH. It was just a sliver of what Barack Obama was seeking we were told more than once.
Well we know now the D Party was working harder to kill any PO than to keep it alive or let it grow stronger.
It was killed off for certain within the last couple of weeks.
Medicare at 55 was brought out and now that evidently is dead too.
What remains? For profit insurer health insurance mandated join and buyin.
Who benefits from that? For profit insurers.
Once upon a time a newly elected American President and his Party decided to throw a campaign cash grab party. About American healthcare reform.
We know the money came in and moved around. Here in mid December 2009 the finish line is being chalked in. Barack Obama is going to tell us this turd smells great. The D Party is going to tell us this turd is a great turd. The for profit insurers are going to tell us they like this turd just fine. All this wonderful news about a turd brought to us by Barack Obama,the D Party and shaped and paid for by the for profit insurers and other big American healthcare regime players.
So what is changed from where Americans were at on March 1,2009?
No Single Payer. No Public Option. No Medicare at 55.
There is a Join/Buy-In Mandate. Some past practices may be altered or made to cease but that is small print,rules and regs stuff which can be moved around or shapeshifted easily by motivated money politics. Nothing in stone here to be sure. It might kick in in some ways in 2010 or perhaps not until 2013 or 2014. Lots of political terrain to cover meanwhile.
We had a turd on March 1,2009. We still have a turd here in December 2009.
Barack Obama truly is a charlatan for having done this. As for his D Party they so richly deserve to suffer at the polls in 2010 and going forward.
Joe Lieberman? The D Party deserves whatever he gives them. Barack Obama seems quite attracted to him. As does his CoS. Polish your turd guys.
I’ve seen both of those first hand as well
trust ME, you would MUCH prefer their insurance then ours
no contest
unless of course you’re healthy, then of ours is just fine
Should have called your broker back in July.
sadam was becomming less and less aggresive not the reverse, he had less and less resources to do anything at all and his health would not have held him in power too long
sorry, you’re batting baseball in a football field with that one
I don’t really have a broker, just venting.
Saddam was killing his people at a pretty good clip. I think most war is based on the probability of what might happen if it is not fought. I don’t think that means I have a disease or do you have difficulty expressing yourself.
IMHO, the public option and Medicare buy-in have been killed by the White House. And, Joe Lieberman is out there (“courageously”) drawing fire away from the true culprit, Barack Obama. Joe will be well rewarded for this contribution to preserving health-insurers’ profits.
So who the fuck is organizing mass demonstrations on the streets of D.C.? As long as the people sit on their asses the Dim-o-crats and Obama have nothing to fear. The media will spin a half-assed, fatally flawed insurance reform bill as a great victory for the people. Where are the unions? Were are the patient advocate groups? Where are the civil rights groups? Who the fuck is leading the “people?” The Titanic continues to take on water.
I so agree with you and powwow. Lieberman is just a foil. While everyone is throwing rotten eggs at Lieberman, this horrible legislation will quietly pass.
It’s all on Obama. He owns this. They ought to name it “The Obama Healthcare Plan” and let him be saddled with it for years to come.
What does volunteering have to do with whether not something is a government function?
That is not correct but if you wish to delude yourself that is fine with me. At this point Iraq would be the 2nd largest oil power with all the attendant power and would have been much more dangerous. Of course it is difficult to predict a future which did not happen but our leadership did their best.
I lived under the dreadful system in England for the first half of my, now, pretty long life and let me assure you It is a damn good, efficient and cost effective system,
If, more likely when, I get seriously sick in this country my family and friends have strict instructions that I am to be flown back to England where I will still get free health care under my Irish passport.
My mother, needing an operation that would have cost nearly $30,000 in 1972, flew back to England with my brother, was operated on, had 6 months rehab in a beautiful place by the ocean, and the whole damn thing cost $299 round trip ticket (Actually $598 counting my brother’s ticket).
You are, I am afraid, full of bullshit
yeah… I hope I have some of those evil insurers’ shares in my portfolio ;-P
I agree with Perris. The “change” we were promised was intended as a move away from “extremes” on either side toward the type of post-partisan centrism that Lieberman used to represent – 10+ years ago.
But part of that change was also supposed to be away from corruption. And the very centrism that was supposed to save us from corruption is now the most irredeemably corrupt aspect of American politics – a club of corporatist tools. His vision for American governance is reminescent of the “Great Society” technocracy movement of the past, a desire to clean up government, of passions/drama, of greed and of partisanship. I don’t think the Obama admin fully understood the corruption at the center until it was way too late. Clinton certainly didn’t. Obama probably still doesn’t.
of course, people still “like” Lieberman in the Senate.
They never attacked us. Many experts stated and knew there were no WMD’s, they lied and lied and lied. Hundreds of thousands are dead, injured, millions displaced. No that war is illegal, immoral and was unnecessary. Period. No way in hell around this.
If you do try to spin this or step around these lies you are walking through the bones of hundreds of thousands dead and an ocean of blood. You may try to swim through these lies. But you will eventually drown both morally and spiritually. Period
Better yet: “The Obama Health-Care Profits Protection Act of 2009″ (along the lines of the title of this thread).
You are deluded if you think it is free.
They will pay in 2010..and Liarman knows it and wants this
Unfortunately they will call the piece of crap the “Kennedy Health Care Reform”.
“Lieberman basically got everything he wanted with staggering speed.”
emmanuel didn’t have any traditional gifts to give lieberman for chanukah this year and so he decided to give him this…
Ask Canadians or citizens of Great Britain if they would want to change their health system for what the U.S. has. They would laugh and say “hell no!” Now run along little virus.
That leadership did not have a best; it had ignorance (ignore the information) and Lies (WMDs). Not a best around.
Why didn’t the Dems grow a pair and take Lieberdouche’s committee chairmanship away?
WTF? He was protecting western civilization’s eastern flank against the Iranian Revolutionaries. He was doing our bidding. Why do you think we didn’t take him out in 1991?
Clearly that war was not illegal except in your mind. No point in getting into the facts of the matter as you appear well-immunized against them.
Expect to see more buckets on counters at convenience stores pleading for money so some poor soul can have medical treatment. Expect to see more “free clinics” where thousands line up for the most basic of health care. The United States has lost it’s soul and the ruling elites have lost all legitimacy to govern.
No it is not all about Rahm. It is time that we come to grips with the fact that this is all about his boss. Rahm is a viscious attack dog that responds to the voice of his master. He would be pulling every trick in the book to get the public option passed and the medicare buy-in, if that was what Obama wanted. This adminbistration made deals with Pharma and the insurance industry to get support for 2012. Everything else is for show. The closest they have come to fighting for reform was lukewarm comments about the President’s preferrence for the public option. They have been trying to neuter it every since. They just want shell passed so they can say they have done something historic, while at the same time it is just as cosmetic as the Lilly leadbetter law they got passed. If you think that bill was anything but cosmetic, then what has changed since its passing. They might has well have proclaimed December 16th as working wiomans day. Actually that may have been more effective.
And the Dims have earned every defeat at the polls. Let this be the end of the Dim-o-cratic Party.
People are hurting. They’re looking for work and trying to figure out how to keep their homes and feed their kids. It’s not easy to stay informed and engaged and active when you’re preoccupied with a stack of unpaid bills. Have a little sympathy.
Besides, remember that it’s always easier to stir right-wing authoritarians into mobbing and screaming than it is to stir progressives. RWAs will eagerly protest against their own interests if Beck tells them to.
If the media weren’t so worthless, and our elected representatives so complicit, people like Lieberman wouldn’t have so much power or sway.
because he’s doing exactly what he’s supposed to be doing!
i don’;t think it could be just the whitehouse if the majority of the dems in congress didn’t think it was a good idea too.
Yes!
New around here?
Highjack a thread and then get personal? I am impressed/s
That is probably correct. Wouldit have been better to ahve Iraq and Iran fight each othe again with perhaps millions of casualties and the Strait of Hormuz in play.
Not sure I understand.
They have to try and get this done quick before progressives can help a strong supporter of the public option, (Elaine Marshall, who is 37 points ahead of the DSCC favorite) can beat Sen. Burr to remove Sen. Lieberman’s death grip.
Finally, the truth
Lets see:
1. Hijack- to argue points off topic from the post
2. Personal- You are “deluded”(your words ) if you think you can insult some commentors whose respect has been earned through arguing points that this blog covered thoroughly YEARS ago.
/s means I am impressed.
I see. Well I did not bring up the war but I do see your point. On the other hand I have suffered such outrageous ad hominen attacks by a group of bloggers whose skills are reminiscent of George Bernard Shaw and Oscar Wilde. You seem to suggest that what you prefer is an incestuous peanut gallery – preaching to the choir so to speak.
Great post!
If the turd passes we all get to start paying higher insurance premiuns in 2010, + expect higher cost of living, as business will pass on the added expense to consumers.
Isn’t there just ONE Progressive senator who will stand up against Liberman. Come on Al Franken or Russ Feingold withold your vote on this monstrosity of a bill. Will anyone have the guts to stand up for the people against the corporate interests? If there is not one out of 59 than my vote is to forget about politics in this country and move to Canada.
This blog has years and years of archives. Give those a perusal to take the temperature of the water here before you dive in. Respect is earned if you take the time to research the level of dialogue around this blog.
Ad hominem attacks are discouraged here.
Obama’s hands off approach to the negotiations speaks loudly to me. He doesn’t care what is in the bill, he just wants a bill. The Blue Dogs are more intransigent and thus more powerful than the DFHs and liberals. Obama let the factions argue, and the left seems to have caved.
If the left truly wants a public option, then, as Jane says, they can kill this current abomination. If they make it clear that they are willing to kill a bill without a public option, then there will be a public option. If they don’t, the public option is toast.
Sort of convert or the sword?
I was wondering what has happened to the amendments to allow capping and to allow the insurance companies to use the least regulated state or territory as a home base to set their standards and practices while being able to ignore the regulations of the state they are selling their service to. Thanks for any updates.
That’s too much I think. If that becomes acceptable we will not be able to get anything done. Healthcare is important but it I’d not the only important issue.
Those spineless pee-pant dems in the senate folded like cheap lawn chairs again. Guess they miss the taste of the dog-shit that was crammed down their troats during the Bushie years.
As for Obama and company running the dem majority with a velvet-gloved iron fist, looks like they prefer having the minority of rethugs and blue dogs shove enemas up their asses instead.
Right now Obama is heading for Carter country – you know, one and done. The only difference so far is that Obama gives good speeches.
As for Obama’s historic legacy – Looks like it’s gonna be limited to being the first black POTUS, period.
The trolls have really crawled out of their caves en masse the last couple of days. [See the activity on Marcy's thread from yesterday.]
It’s pointless to try to “reason” with them, as their purpose is only to hijack.
Scroll on by.
You are right on about Joe.
He is going to make Progressive Dems pay for the 2006 primary.
I’m not sure where you want to draw the line. Obama lost me with his escalation of the war. His betrayal on health care was expected. My last hope for spending any more time and energy in electoral politics is that some Progressive senators grow a spine. Why does Liberman hold all the cards?
I recently met with the regional director of the DNC. Pushing health care “reform” at any cost tops their agenda. At any cost. I knew Obama was a center right politician going in — my vote for Obama was a vote against McCain/Palin. All my misgivings about the combination of Obama’s conservatism, his remote temperament and his hands off management style are coming true. He is leaving giant vacuums to be filled by Emmanuel, Lieberman, Snowe, Nelson, et al. There is no hope for change. I will not vote for Obama again no matter the whack jobs the GOP runs against him.
I’m with you. Actually, we’d be better off now with McCain because the Democrats in Congress would probably not be voting him the funds to escalate the war and we would not have wasted all the energy for change on a deceitful promise.
Despite all the arguments to the contrary, there will need to be a third party which is progressive. If the progressive agenda was to move forward through the Democratic Party, it should have done so this year. It didn’t for a ton of reasons, and more gloomily, it is unlikely to do so in the future. The difference is between the Democrats and the GOP, it’s between those who have no real home within the Democratic party. I am sad because Obama is an attractive figure, but I care more about the issues and he simply is not representing my views—at least in action.
Were you around for the last two years of Bush. Nothing would be very much different except that Palin would be Vice President.
I got exactly what I expected from Obama, especially once I heard that Emanuel would be chief of Staff, but McCain would still be worse, as hard to imagine as that is. There is something to be said for not being unabashedly lied to.
I will be voting third party in 2012 just like I have done every Pres election between 1992 and 2008, the last two times I voted for a major party candidate. Clintion did me in with NAFTA just like Obama is doing me in with health care.
What’s happened to Dorgan’s drug re-importation amendment?
Right now it’s the best bet to scuttle the deal with the health industry which this bill is an enactment of.
He holds all the cards because we do not have 60 votes. We have 59 and him. The others were just trying to get more for their State. Sen. Lieberman is out for revenge. If his chest had been a cannon he would have shot his heart upon it (the Democratic party). In 2010 we could have a loyal Democrat as #60 who strongly supports a public option. 2010.
Isn’t that kind of a masochistic attitude?
8 years of GOP Destruction wasn’t enough?
You would risk more because of heartbreak?
Don’t let the GOP prove they are correct:
THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANNESS
Why don’t the Democrats force the Republicans to hold the floor for their filibuster, and keep the Senate in session through the holidays?
“great” blame Obama for the DLC, Summers and the Clintons. You can bring back the Clintons and the DLC democrats. The point here is that Obama is not responsible for Lieberman and who Louisiana elects to the Senate.
I believe that it is still for sale.
No, I don’t buy that I can make a difference in a conservative two party system that does not allow for change. The GOP is peppered with religious right wing conservatives (sorry for the redundancy) and so is the Democratic Party (thanks to Emmanuel and Schumer) and these troglodytes keep running and getting elected or reelected. There should be little doubt that the country is a mess and it has been for quite sometime. Bush epitomized the crest of the mess but Clinton was part of passing that hot potato on to GWB. Much of it began with Reagan. Obama is part of the breakdown in governing America. We need bold leadership. We don’t have it and my hunch it isn’t coming any time soon. My best hope for change is at the local and state level.
I knew the people in CT were too smart.
If Emmanuel, through Obama, told Reid to cave to Lieberman then Emmanuel, through Obama, could have told Reid to strip Lieberman of his committee assignments when Obama took office. But he didn’t so, yes, Obama is to blame for Lieberman.
Dorgan was just on the Senate floor with his charts. He wondered whether there’d be any voice voting for the public’s interests in the Senate this afternoon.
Obama is responsible for the “big deal” he made with the health industry and this bill is now nothing more than an enactment of it. Very convenient.
The only saving aspects that may still be viable, from what i hear, are a still-possible expansion of Medicaid to 150% FPL, a rule that between 85% and 90% of premiums be used for health care, and the Dorgan drug re-importation amendment.
150% saves $100 billion according to CBO and that money comes directly out of the subsidy going to insurance companies.
Even 85% used for health care is at least twice as good as we have now.
Drug re-importation blows the subsidy with the health industry to pieces but has substantial support and again, CBO says it saves a lot of money.
The Mandate has got to go. It’s poison.
Before it is possible to respond to your babbling, can you specifically state from the record the reasons the US attacked Iraq?
Nobody cares what you think, your thoughts merely reflect the musings of a poor sap in the thrall of killing people. What is needed is evidence. What were the reasons given by the US for attacking Ir
Just as the teabaggers are staying with and affecting the GOP, progressives have to stay with the DEMs and make our voices heard in the long run. To throw away a vote on a third party is to let the worst outcome in the door: the fucking GOP.
We can elect more and better DEMs if we make that our unified goal.
Roland Burris?
AMEN!!
Al Franken: please vote “no.”
Were you able to give him [her?] an earful about how pissed Progressives are? About how a big portion of “the base” — the portion that got in early, worked hard, donated beyond their capacity, manned phone banks, walked neighborhoods for GOTV, recruited friends and neighbors — that portion, won’t be working for Obama or Democrats, not in 2010, and probably not for years to come.
Folks may not be “going Green” or voting Republican — hell, they may even vote for “a” Democrat or two — but they aren’t going to work like they did in 2008.
And the “health care ‘reform’ [sic] at any price” is the big reason. DNC is sowing the seeds of the party’s own demise.
I’ve read all of the comments.
And there’s only one on here that’s “deluded.”
This is only true if you want this Frankenstein bill to pass.
Since it’s now clear that this thing is solely a give-away + protection racket for insurers & PhARMA, why not just go “oopsie” and let the bill “fail.”
OFG, every time I read your comments, I love you more.
Do not forget about Stupak & Nelson. Will they be the new guys in charge of abortion?
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/72259-dont-forget-about-nelson
But he wasn’t killing them at the rate we could! USA USA USA!
lol, thanks!!!
I’ll take love anywhere I can find it! lol
Consider what happens in Oregon, North Dakota, New York, Nevada, Maryland, Indiana, Connecticut, California, and Arkansas if progressives stay home 11/9/2010?
Excellent point!!!
Perhaps the White House and Congressional Dems should’ve considered that.
Let’s not forget North Carolina, unless we want Raham & Co to pick the Democratic Candidate.
I’ve lived in cities and in the country. I know both volunteer and municipalized fire departments. They are both governmental or quasi-governmental entities. I won’t presume to guess where you are from, but you’ve said something altogether remarkable, so let’s see what it is.
You apparently don’t know a governmental function when you see it. There are those among us who think they are quintessentially American and who think nowadays that if something was done for them it was one of two things:
(1) it was the government if it involved making people do things they didn’t want to do; and
(2) it was private enterprise it if it involved people who did things on their own volition, in which case it was done for a profit.
Now let’s see which one describes your volunteer firefighters.
Why, neither does! Volunteer firefighters are neither type-(1) serfs nor type-(2) entrepreneurs. They protect the commons without compensation. That’s the very essence of a government function in terms of both what is achieved and what reward is reaped, namely, the satisfaction of having done one’s civic duty.
This anthropology – which may or may not be yours — seems a bit impoverished. One wonders how it makes sense of Westerns when a posse is formed and no cash jingles.
This is part of the disease I was describing. We did not always have it. In fact we’d make fun of other countries because they had it. Once, during the 1930s or 40s, a “Believe it or not”-type radio show featured a segment on how house fires were put out in Turkey. The department chief would show up with his crew and negotiate with the homeowner to set a price for the dousing. This was presented as backward – unfathomable to the audience – a sign of how, here in the United States, everything is so civilized, in contrast to craven Orientals who can’t do better than barter over the public good.
Of course now the Turks would never have such a system whereas, again and again, that’s just what we have instituted. Perhaps we should bomb some sense into them for envying our freedom. What do you think?
Don’t tell me. I don’t want to know.
Thanks for further illustrating my point. And know that there’s a place for you on the CBO staff.