I see that my colleague bmaz referenced a post I wrote about a year ago back at Digby’s place, about how Obama the candidate was consolidating structures within the progressive movement – field, voter registration, fundraising, messaging, new media, organizing – into his Presidential campaign.
It’s good to reflect back on this piece, especially in light of Micah Sifry’s superlative piece about how Obama’s grassroots movement demobilized in 2009. I actually think it holds up pretty well. I remember at the time getting a lot of criticism for one line – “this is tremendous news” – referring to some of that consolidation. But it was good news, in the context of the actual campaign. The organizing and voter contacts from May to November resulted in a 365 electoral-vote total, wins in historically red states like North Carolina, Virginia and Indiana, millions of new Democrats and a mandate for bringing in a transformative agenda. I saw first-hand people never involved in politics before working for months for Obama, building robust local structures that could have been leveraged to infuse new energy into local parties and bring forward a new generation of leadership.
So why weren’t they? Sifry explores this in his piece, asking why Organizing For America was the dog that didn’t bark last year.
The truth is that Obama was never nearly as free of dependence on big money donors as the reporting suggested, nor was his movement as bottom-up or people-centric as his marketing implied. And this is the big story of 2009, if you ask me, the meta-story of what did, and didn’t happen, in the first year of Obama’s administration. The people who voted for him weren’t organized in any kind of new or powerful way, and the special interests–banks, energy companies, health interests, car-makers, the military-industrial complex–sat first at the table and wrote the menu. Myth met reality, and came up wanting [...]
Now, there is a new enthusiasm gap, but it’s no longer in Obama’s favor. That’s because you can’t order volunteers to do anything–you have to motivate them, and Obama’s compromises to almost every powers-that-be are tremendously demotivating.
How much of this was pre-ordained by how Obama as a candidate shut down ancillary structures within the progressive movement? I definitely was wary of that consolidation at the time, because of the potential long-term impact. As I said then, Presidents need independent movements helping them:
What’s less positive is the centralization of all these networks and amplifiers, and how that will work as a potential governing strategy, AND where that leaves those groups who have grown up in the current polarized environment, and prospered. I don’t think it’s the end of them – even if the big donors desert some progressive movement groups, the Obama campaign itself has shown the ability of a self-sustaining small-donor network. In addition, some of these groups, like the 2004 structures built to run field campaigns in the Kerry election, were so ad hoc and combustible that they offered no long-term hopes for success anyway, and the single-issue silos of the past have always had a range of flaws.
Still, outside amplifiers are going to be needed to enact Obama’s agenda. There’s a myth that progressive groups like MoveOn would dry up without a lightning rod like Bush to oppose but I don’t think that’s true. People aren’t only mad with Bush but really are seeking legitimate solutions and will get excited about them. If Obama is shutting out these organizers who are positioned to help him put through those solutions, can he possibly build a parallel movement big enough to combat the institutional barriers in Washington?
Instead, Obama’s White House tried to shut down any outside progressive groups who criticized any of his policies. This has actually backfired by this point; MoveOn is practically radicalized by now, recently calling for the rejection of the Senate health care bill, for example. But it left millions of supporters adrift, reliant on the OFA structure to organize them. And it simply has not stepped up meaningfully.
And that’s not necessarily just the fault of the OFA leadership, which tried to shoehorn a community organizing movement into the DNC brand, the epitome of a square peg and a round hole. But while I agree that much of this can be laid at the feet of the leadership, at least some of it should go to the organizers themselves, the state-level leaders who never sought anything other than taking marching orders, and who were unable to translate that to the larger rank and file. There was certainly the opportunity for the state-level people to turn OFA into something vibrant and workable within their own communities. I know that some groups have done that in particular CDs. But that didn’t happen in a widespread way.
I know that I was brought in by OFA people here in CA to do some educational workshops about California’s political crisis. The idea was to get people engaged and to channel that into real actions on the state budget. We had two meetings and then nothing. It just fizzled. Some of this could be due to inexperienced people who, without a major signpost goal like electing Obama, just faded away. But it’s also the fault of the organizers one level up, the state leaders, who just didn’t execute outside of rah-rah actions.
To a certain extent, the jury is still out. OFA was a proven election campaign model, not a governing model. We’ll see if they’ve totally disillusioned their base to the extent that they cannot motivate them to work for other candidates in 2010. An OFA organizer in CA I know would respond to this by saying they’ve been building capacity all year, and will be better poised to take advantage of things next year. I don’t know if I believe that, but next year will certainly be a test.
Nevertheless, the bungling of OFA had real-world consequences for governing. Progressive groups have started to fill the gap of a counterweight pressure on the left for Obama, but that came much too late. A good chunk of the first-year mandate was lost, and a command-and-control organizing movement couldn’t return its supporters to the energy level of the campaign. The blast emails are left unopened, the White House YouTube channel unwatched, the base moved on to other projects.
I don’t think that the political team at the White House understands the enormity of their problems. You really can’t fool people more than once, especially when you oversell the ability for a bottom-up movement for change to actually advance an agenda in Washington, and then describe the crumbs that result as a pure distillation of that change agenda. But it may be healthy for them to have some adversity at this point. If the outside groups can gather their own steam and operate independently, they can create that cultural and political force that nobody in Washington will be able to rein in.
There are obstacles to that; karoli doesn’t realize that so many progressive groups aren’t asking for money because they’re vibrant, but because they’re HURTING, due to a combination of the bad economy and the funders not wanting to upset the White House.
However, if progressive groups can find the formula and convince the funding apparatus that movements can succeed where even Presidents fail, they would be well-positioned to pick up where the core of the Obama movement left off, as a decentralized, independent, outside organizing force.
…Micah Sifry has some additional thoughts on how Obama could have sustained his movement, if he chose to.



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This is a very interesting post for me, because of this paragraph:
I was one of the “OFA people” in CA who approached Dave about our workshop idea. Although, it’s important to note that at time, last March, none of us were paid OFA staff, and most of us hadn’t even been paid staff on the campaign – just highly trained volunteers.
Looking back, I think there are three reasons we couldn’t get this off the ground.
1) Inexperience. Back in March, when we approached Dave, we had a LOT to learn ourselves – most of us had ZERO experience beyond the campaign. We could never agree on the focus this effort should take, mostly because we had no clue what the priorities should be.
2) We aren’t professional organizers – we all had full time jobs at the time we started to put this together, and tried to fit this in during our spare time. Of the seven of us who started this effort, five dropped out within weeks, siting conflicts because of job and personal priorities.
3) We had no institutional support. I think if I had had the contacts with different progressive organizations that I have now, this would be different. But at the time I barely knew any of the players. I did reach out to our local Democratic Party Club and got no response. And even though I’m a delegate to the CA State Party, my contacts within the party are pretty thin. The California OFA State Director, who wasn’t officially the State Director yet, told me at the time OFA was “interested” in what we were doing, but offered no guidance or support, financially or otherwise.
Lastly, I’d add this. Even though I feel like I’ve never gotten out of campaign mode, and am frankly exhausted by the effort, I also feel like I’ve personally accomplished very little. Not because I’m a bad person or a horrible organizer, but because I’ve been swimming against the tide for a year now.
Fankly, I don’t think I can keep going like this. My life is completely out of balance. I’ll likely have to pull back, because my professional and personal life will go in the toilet if I don’t.
I don’t think I’m the only out there in this position.
if OB and OFA want to re-ignite the base, then pass a good HCR bill and go back with reconciliation to fix the rest of it.
Then, you will see excitement and lotsa I-told-you-so’s.
i can hold my breath a long time, but not forever.
It’s been encouraging to see MoveOn become more radicalized, and depressing to watch TrueMajority and US Action turn into Obama enablers. I didn’t support Obama – so I was never involved with his organization. To have that kind of organization and enthusiasm and not go anywhere with it is shameful.
Will those same volunteers come back to help Obama in his next campaign? It seems unlikely, given what a disappointment he is to all but the most die hard Obamabots. He was a pretty, articulate, mostly empty canvas that a lot of people painted their own hopes and dreams upon. Anyone who really listened to him, or looked at his record knew he was no progressive.
the ability of a bottom-up movement wasn’t over sold. a command-and control movement was sold as a bottom-up movement when it wasn’t.
i actually think most political activists don’t know the difference (don’t think it’s their fault though, not when the training they’ve received is from the command and control organization pretending to be a bottoms-up organization).
here’s a bit from a typical discussion i had here not too long ago (it was about healthcare reform, but it could be about anything):
to repeat my central point:
grass roots organizing is helping people help themselves to achieve their own goals.
not convincing them to help you achieve yours.
who is actually doing this kind of organizing in politics nowadays? because if i can find an organization dedicated to that kind of organizing, that’s where i’m going to put my efforts.
(((Marta Evry)))
burn out sucks.
It aint about fool some of the people, really. It is about evolution from campaign to governance.
in the campaign, clearly we and our phone banks were troops to be deployed. we all had the same goal. No one was fooled. the Goal was shared. Success was defined.
get votes for OB.
That breaks down in governance and legislating where there are different views of what is the right reform or legislation, or what is progressive or worth doing.
But OFA is about deploying troops. There are lengthy discussions and efforts to keep the volunteer organizers involved and to give them input. But in the end it is a fundamentally different thing than the campaign, because the goal line is less clear and success is defined differently by different folks. YMMV.
Whether OFA survives and can motivate people will depend on how the HCR is handled, and whether the cadre holds together or is further winnowed.
Jeebus, you wrote what I wanted to say at the end of my post and was too worn out and, quite frankly, stupid to write.
Ddays thoughts in that post last year have held up VERY well. There is an important lesson to be learned from that; especially when coupled with the last calendar year.
that’s top down.
they should be the ones giving you input if you want a grass roots movement.
i agree. I am not arguing that OFA is grassroots organizing.
It is teaching organizing but not the listening part.
We are not going into neighborhoods and finding out what they want.
OFA leadership is not checking with us on policy and finding out what the program should be.
I was arguing about you can fool people once….
I dont think we were fooled the first time around. We got what we were after. McCain aint president.
Will we get the pony? I doubt it will have three legs, maybe not even two.
It is volunteer, and is allowed to develop its own operational structure on the very local level. it is not allowed to make its own policy.
I think there is definite interest in our views and to give us input, but I am cynical enough to feel it is more about keeping us happy than changing their view.
I am enough of an optimist to feel they are not tone deaf to our unhappiness with the current Senate bill.
In November and December, we did take some freedom in messaging even to the point of pushing public option when the OFA line was access and cut costs.
I was arguing that we werent fooled. We got what we wanted. McCain aint president.
Will we get the pony? I doubt it will have even three legs. More likely it will be a donkey.
This is an anecdote, not data but so telling I must relay it. This summer I was out petitioning to get candidates on the ballot. One man said to me that there was no reason to sign since “in November he had elected his man Obama.”!!! So therefore he never had to be involved in the political process ever again. It was as if by magic Obama would make everything work and everything would magically get better.
I have 3 feelings about the failure of OFA to be effective as a valid mobilizer of change and as a entiry controlled by this presidient and his administration.
Good..I’m glad it’s a failure…Democratic/democratic politics shoud never be centered on a person. It is anathema to democracy. A thought I expressed in the post Matt Stoller wrote that was referenced by Micah.
Thank God for both their incompetence, tin ear and actual disinterest. I’ll go into why later.
Bad….I was angry and apprehensive as I saw it happening during the campaign. I was angry that some good outside, Progressive organizations were essentially defunded, sidelined and demobilized.
It is disturbing that progressive groups that could have benefitted from the energy, people power and money of the grassroots were disabled during the campaign and afterward.
Bad..That some of those groups will not recover or even be recreated now that OFA seems to have dropped the ball.
I had always feared during the campaign that the very top down organization of the Obama campaign would use the huge list and people power to actually bully progressive Democrats into supporting what I knew would be a a centrist rather than a progressive agenda.
Micah talks about the things that OFA could have done to be more effective. However because it’s ineffective it does leave progressive Democratic officeholders to make decisions on their own, rather than this is what the White House/Rahm/Obama want. I am glad they are ineffective. There is enough indirect pressure from all sources. I am glad there is no organization that could mobilize tens of thousands of call to Congressional Pregressive Caucus members to back off their support of the public option. That would have been the end of any independent thought in the Democratic party.
The very ineffectiveness of OFA now leaves room for more progressive organizations to grow. And that is all to the good.
Micah and others may mourn its ineffectiveness because they still are under the illusion that under his own steam, Barack Obama will want and try to enact TRANSFORMATIONAL progressive policies. That is not the case. It will not be the case in the future and frankly it was clear to anyone who actually listened to what Barack Obama said rather than what they wanted to hear,, that it was never the case in the past.
This is someone who’s ambition is just incremental change, rahter than transformatinal change. And to quote myself from a January 8, 2008 post, I said this was ” a person who is as cautioius as poeple accuse Hillary Clinton of being. And someone who will deliver change in teaspoons and not gallons”
We have to supply the change and make this adminstration and Congress actually enact it.
Great article David, right on the money .
I was a long time poster at Think Progress, visited the staff in Washington a couple years ago and told them I thought they were among the best Blog sites out there , which they were .
Since Obama’s election the site has turned into a mere propaganda mouth piece for the center right democratic party establishment, publishing endless puff pieces on Obama and stating the obvious about the likes of Limaugh , coulter Fox news and the Republican party endlessly . No criticism is any longer tolerated by the posters there and the comments , it’s hard to believe this is an accident , are so adolescent that in order to find anything of value in the comment section one has to wade through 100′s of vulgar nasty personal attacks on the so called “trolls” that it is no longer worth looking through them .
The Podesta group has profited handsomely off of selling access to Washington .
Thanks. I appreciate it.
BTW, I didn’t get into that last paragraph to elicit sympathy, but to highlight the difficulties non-professional organizers have sustaining their focus and energy if there’s no infrastructure behind them to help.
“There was certainly the opportunity for the state-level people to turn OFA into something vibrant and workable within their own communities. I know that some groups have done that in particular CDs. But that didn’t happen in a widespread way.”
On November 5th, intensity dissipated like Obama’s exhaled hot air from his speech in Grant Park. I believe one of the big reasons for this has to do with the failure of the organizing effort to include and push for local candidates at all levels. When you tie the national efforts to the local efforts you maintain connection with the folks on the ground and leave them unified to work together on the community goals and elections. The whole process of organizing in a community develops real opportunities for new local candidates to emerge. School boards, village councils, University regents, county boards, yada, yada.
This is a territory where the GOP has ruled. Organizing and working for your friends and neighbors endures well beyond the national calling. So, two or four years from the election your infrastructure is largely in place and well integrated in the societal fabric. Really the day after the election is when a light bulb went off for me. I didn’t know specifically what I was feeling. I was unsettled – feeling guilty of something. A Roman Catholic might be more aware of what I am talking about. Guilty consciences do not use clear advertising to make you aware. After a while and as the cabinet choices became more known, I could see why.
The progressives have merely coalesced for a common bitch session but going to the next level we suck at. It would be incredibly liberating if we could take it to the next step and build numbers in the real world not just virtual.
I would note that OFA did train a lot of people. Now that they’re being cut loose, they’ve got a lot of time and skills on their hands to put to good use, yeah?
Look at the odds…The republican party is nuts. The DLC is undermining anything and everything progressives want to do.
Hasn’t the Obama presidency proven one thing clearly and emphatically..it is time for a third party.Our history shows great things accomplished by them.
The current restrictions on third party candidates making it difficult to even get in the race need to be changed NOW.The debates in the primaries are a joke. All you have to do is look at some old Nixon/Kennedy debates. They talked about issues. We were talking about the importance of wearing a flag pin.
Rule # 1..Since abortion is currently legal. It has no place in third party talks.
Common sense..find common ground. I have nothing in common with the DLC, although I consider myself at heart a democrat.
Obama has somehow managed to radicalize the left on a level that Bush could never have.
I never, ever thought that I could have anything in common with republicans or the fringe right…but we do agree that Obama’s campaign was a masterful exercise in deception.
The Democratic pros do not want to rouse the base, because the base might make demands. They want a veal pen, as Jane says. They have a history of mobilizing for elections and then fading out for a year and a half. That isn’t an accident — they want the militants to cool down and drift away.
This has really been true forever. The best things that the Democratic Party has ever done have been in response to outside pressure. If you’re loyal, they pat you on the head and ignore you. Only if you get feisty will they listen.
A slightly contrarian view might be that most self-described conservatives have always fallen back to bitch sessions. Many Republicans consistently get out votes by promising to solve specific issues that their constituents are mad about. In fact for many cases within Republican politics all they have is a large base that is motivated by their displeasure with the people they see as representing on the other side.
Put a slightly different way it may be the case that it is the self-defined liberals who fail to be displeased when they are compromised or who feel overwhelmed that is the bigger problem. Apathy derived from feeling that no one else cares so why should you.
Most of the Inner-tubes is a giant bitch session and that is what has taken some of the power away from the don’t-rock-the-boat mainstream press. Perhaps not bitching leads to dearth of options. Maybe right now, lots of people are just trying to figure out what went wrong and whether anything worked as expected.
Better to complain until you find a direction than suffer in silence.
The left never had a seat at Obama’s table. Liberals were a means to an end. Our bi-racial, Harvard-educated, charming President needed the left to get elected and he needs the right to get reelected, here in America.
The real question, however, is what’s Obama’s true motivation for becoming President? No one on the left has a clue. Why is that?
I think we’re moving past disillusionment to actual hostility. This is not just the result of disappointment with Obama, it is shock, dismay, and disgust with the Senate handling of HCR. If the House capitulates as expected the Democratic Party brand could be severely damaged for a long time.
THIS JUST IN:
EXCLUSIVE: Dems ‘Almost Certain’ to Bypass Conference
Obama will never get the right to vote for him – never.
If he loses the left and some of the independents, he’s in real trouble. Someone in the WH needs to realize this and fast.
Right you are man…
A paranoid delusion of mine has always been that, upon entering the Oval Office, on the first day the President is suddenly informed of all the ugly truths the voting public is protected from. Yes, JFK was killed by CIA operatives and, in fact, those operatives were aided by the aliens that landed at Roswell; and, by the way, you don’t really run the country because that job has belonged to the Illuminati/New World Order/Gnomes of Zurich/Bilderberg/Rothchilde faction for years…so here’s what you are going to do…
Nuts, of course, but it would certainly explain why liberal candidates never live up to their billing. I guess I’m just going off of Clinton and Obama. Carter was probably never clued into the whole Roswell thing.
But, really, the most disheartening thing about the Obama administration leaving the progressive movement behind is that it was there and it really, really, really looked like it was happening. Now a more savvy observer like Mr. Dayen obviously saw the tell-tale signs of cracks in the foundation, but people like me, who were hungering for something other than the idiocy of the Bush years, bought the whole “hope” message hook line and sinker.
I had an interesting conversation with my 11 year old after we went to see Avatar over the weekend. She said, “What was Pandora? Wasn’t she a person who opened a box?”
I said, “Yeah, and all the evils in the world were in that box. She was told not to open it but she did and they all got out.”
Now my daughter, who must have picked up some version of the story from any of the umpteen-million media sources she has access to, said, “But wasn’t something good saved in the box.”
And, being the terrible father I am, I replied, “Yes, but the thing left in the box was Hope. You’ll notice it was trapped in the box like all the bad things were before Pandora let them out, so Hope wasn’t saved at all. It was trapped. The reason is because the ancient Greeks really didn’t have all that great a life and their basic philosophy was that, for the masses, there really was no hope.”
That’s not the Hamilton interpretation of the myth, but it was more a reality for the ancients as it is now. We were suckered in by the message of Hope, and it was so appealing. That’s why the reality that there is very little to be hopeful for is such a really big bummer.
I’ll be interested to see who wants to vote for another big bummer in November.
I would really like to see the left/right dichotomy retired, although I know that will not happen. It was fabricated to divide the electorate and pit the two sides against each other, lest we band together and do something unprecedented such as hold our leaders accountable.
Meanwhile, the corruption, looting and sacking of the country continues unabated.
Who the hell cares at this point?
The difference between republicans and democrats has been erased beyond change of rhetoric.
All we have changed is the color of the skin of the powerful.
That should not matter…..but apparently it does.
Obama’s a salesman, using that classic technique of “over promise, under delivery”. Heh. Throw in a little bit of wishful thinking by some on the left (I think he made it pretty clear that the Bush crime family would skate) and it’s easy to slip from disappointed to down right pissed. He was never “one of us”. Who knew it would be by such a wide margin? Not this Cynic.
An electoral campaign wants all the free citizen help it can get all the way up to election day. After that, if the campaign is successful, then the newly-elected candidate wants that support group which was so important to his election to do one of two things: support whatever he does or, failing that, STFU and leave him alone to govern as he sees fit.
That’s the basic case whether the candidate is of the left, right or center.
Obama and Co. shall once again be very interested in all the grass-roots help they can muster once another election period comes around. Unitl then, they see their problems as “How can we get people to see things the way we want them to see them?
V.I.D.—very important doners (or contributors, enter your preferred term) —get to have significant imput along the way, before, during and after the election, as the return on their “investments”. Others, who haven’t paid in substantial cash, don’t get any of that or nothing more than what the elected organization feels inclined to give.
Obama, like all candidates since Nixon & JFK, was heavily marketed by sophisticated mass-marketing techniques managed by campaign and marketing professionals (and the steadily-growing infusion of campaign money only promotes this all the more). At every major juncture, the key questions turned on how a decision would likely help or hurt the candidates vote-getting prospects. When it came to the matter of Reverend Jeremiah Wright, the electorally-driven decision—rationalized by Obama as if it were not made on the basis of the votes-gained-or-lost-interest—was to cut Reverend Wright loose and thereby reap advantages in distancing the candidate from public remarks which, though difficult or impossible to refute on the basis of honest facts, were deemed none the less damaging to Obama’s campaign. But such occasions–that is, where decisions concerning morally terrible trade-offs arise—are inevitable. It should surprise no one that in a high-stakes election, one’s opponents are always going to be interested in helping arrange, engineer, the most constraining moral dilemmas they can come up with and then seek to place the candidate before a no-win choice—one that ultimately tests his moral groundings, because, in every such case, doing the clearly morally right thing (if there is one) carries the very highest price that can be put on it. In my view, Obama made a calculated decision to repudiate Reverend Wright and probably did this with the belief that it wouldn’t have lasting consesquences for him. Unfortunately, that’s never the case. Such moral choices always leave the person at the center seriously compromised morally —and that, after all, is the point of placing them in such a position in the first place.
Once you start down the road of serious moral compromises, with every fresh challenge, the relative risks/advantages argue in favor of ever greater compromises because the previous ones have to be shored up—it’s a matter of reasoning that, “Well, we already did X, Y, & Z, so, at this point, we dare not jeopardize those compromises by failing to follow them with what’s now demanded.” This is a classic Faustian-bargain situation and Obama, for all his touted intelligence, fell right into it. The problem, as he’s either seen by now or soon shall see, is that while it’s easy to get into such a situation, it’s terribly difficult to get out of it and the costs of doing that only grow with time. This is a man who is now joined at the hip to something called “political expedience” and it’s going to be a hell of a “partnership” for the rest of his term.
Obama understands this old British socialist song:
It’s the rich what gets the money
It’s the poor what gets the blame
Isn’t it a bleeding shame.
I’ve got the foreman’s job at last
The working class can kiss my ass.
Obama gets it, as we can see. DO y’all?
Face it. The military-industrial complex runs this country and OB is powerless against them. The military is an outdated institution in an enlightened society and capitalism is based upon greed. Doesn’t look like there is much hope for society in general.
No, perhaps if you elevate yourself a bit more, talk slowly and use one syllable words we’ll begin to get it.
—> TPAZ #20 :
“The real question, however, is what’s Obama’s true motivation for becoming President? No one on the left has a clue.”
I think that, as is very often the case, there’s a very strong mixture of “wanting to do great/good things for the nation, (i.e. the people of the United States) on one hand and, on the other, “wanting to hold and exercise power”. And, as is also so often the case, Obama has no clear idea of his own as to the relative weights and importance to give these two ambitions when, as usual, they come into direct conflict. The temptation is always to favor the latter at the expense of the former.
Man, that’s grim, but hard to argue with. Some part of me wants to still believe that Obama was handed such an incredibly large tub of crap, that there were no good answers, but your Faustian-bargain description has a painful ring of truth. I felt as much when I watched him accept the Nobel prize for peace and then proceeded to make a case for war. Suddenly all that previous eloquence felt hollow. It is funny to discover what one’s own opinion can be colored by.
“Suddenly all that previous eloquence felt hollow.”
As well it should. This is an indication that your priorities and your sense of right-and-wrong are still working.
I think O’s all about power and never had a wanting-to-do-good thought in his head. That how I read Dreams: his community organizing was a means to an end. IMO, O showed not a scintilla of real interest in those folks. If he had, he would have written and afterward to show how it all turned out, invited them to the inauguration and sat them in the first row, etc.
I thought he was tuning people out on purpose, but I did not think he was taking it down all the way as has been done.
One other small point that has been discussed – the echo chamber effect with people who had any criticism of Obama (policy/strategy/goals) being mocked/shutdown (essentialy having Bush tactics used against them by Obama boosters) also likely caused people to tune out.
Jane has a fresh cross-post up: “Will Jan Schakwosky Keep Her Word?”
You can fool people more than once though, or as an alternative you can fool different people each time (god they must pine for first time voters that have not been F’ed yet).
The other thing is with the 20% shift in jobs going from “R” to “D” – let’s not be fools and realize there are plenty of “D”s who will toe the line for some cash or a seat at the table. The good news with the internet and modern communication is that they are called out sooner, and there are 100 people in line to take their place as honest people. Of course the newbies only stand on a soap box – while the establisment drowns everything out with megaphones and MSM.
David, I agree with your OFA friend about the under-the-radar stuff. In my opinion, a lot of what’s happening now is similar to what happened during lead-up to the Prez primaries, where few noticed what had been built until it was too late to stop them. The MegaMedia doesn’t cover it, and to my surprise, most big Liberal blogs still don’t seem to get it, even after the success Obama had with the same strategy.
This video demonstrates what I’m talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKFPu5Nq0VE
My experience backs up what’s shown in the video, where a local OFA splinter group (mostly young folks) reached out to NORML is working hard on marijuana legalization right now in an effort to capitalize on the momentum that movement has at the moment. I doubt these OFA folks would’ve ever thought to collaborate with NORML, or even be active on this issue at all without the experience in the Obama campaign.
Of course there’s been a drop-off in activity in OFA after the election. Many people were being PAID by campaign cash to do much of that. It’s now much, much more reliant on volunteers, which almost always leads to burn-out eventually, as mentioned by Marta in comment #1, and I hope she can take a break and recharge and be ready for next Fall. However, I can think of no time certainly in my lifetime that comes anywhere close to the level of organizing that’s happened in a year after a Prez election, and much of this is from OFA.
I think OFA is handling things very well right now. Timing is everything, and being ready and rested when your time comes is key. The biggest cure for anxiety and “disillusionment” is getting active with people on a local level. There’s always local campaigns and issues to work on, and it seems to me many here could benefit from more that, rather than these endless debates in blogs with people talking past each other. Onward and upward!
In political science they talk about “the politics or consent” (elections) and “the politics of governance”. They don’t ever quite say that they’re two entirely different and unrelated things, but they just take it for granted that there’s a big gap.
Political insiders, media people, political pros, etc. take this as Rule One. If you don’t realize that your candidate is going to cheat you, it’s your fault for being a sucker. The pros and insiders are proud to be on the cheating side and not on the cheated side. Go to a centrist blog and you’ll see people talking that way in the comments. “Who were those suckers who believed in hope that you can believe in? How could anyone believe in that?”
If you’re on the cheater side of the consent/governance divide, you’re cool. If you’re on the cheated side, you’re an idiot. And if you get mad about being cheated, you’re a paranoid conspiracy theorist, and the conspirators laugh at you.
Let’s understand what was accomplished by the Obama campaign, while recognizing that any organization with a paid field staff is not a bottom up grassroots organization.
1. The Obama campaign spent proportionally more effort on field operations than past Democratic campaigns, which seemed to think that wall-to-wall media blitzing of ads was sufficient.
2. The Obama campaign was able to deflect the hostility of the national media through an intensive 50-state field operation that recruited a record number of volunteers and by conducting events that allowed for a lot of free local media coverage. At the same time, the Obama campaign was stingy about his appearances with the Village media.
3. The fact that these strategies won set expectations among volunteers for a continuing grassroots campaign and many OFA groups set up their own local agendas in order to keep continuity. Others didn’t. So there is a reservoir of trained campaign volunteers in many more places in this country than there were before, and by and large these are local progressives–even in areas nominally hostile to progressive Democrats.
4. Obama tapped the local organizational resources of the black community and the Hispanic community in ways parallel to OFA.
Here’s the point. All of the results of this are available for progressive grassroots organizations to use. All of those active and frustrated OFA members, all of those coalition contacts with local black and Hispanic organizations, all of the savvy about organizing local events and getting local media coverage. For the most part, now sitting idle, waiting for the 2010 campaign season.
So about bottom-up grassroots organizations:
1. If they have paid staff or a contact named “Field Organizer”, they are neither bottom-up or grassroots. They are in the old Southern jargon, “outside agitators” when what a bottom-up organization needs is inside agitators. This is especially important in small communities that fear outsiders.
2. The Achilles heel of bottom-up grassroots organization is personal conflicts, the formation of factions, and co-option by outside agendas. Small groups do just fine. When the are federated or joined in coalitions all those other issues and agendas start getting in the way. Which is usually the point at which someone suggests incorporating and hiring an executive director and, yeah. field operations staff. The progressive movement has yet to crack this problem of the bottom-up transmission of agendas for national priorities. And person-centuries of long, drawn out, tedious meetings and participatory democracy methods have not solved it.
3. Bottom-up grassroots groups depend on volunteers to be effective. More important, they depend on the wide personal networks that a small group of volunteers can provide. Those networks are involved in activities that also depend on wide personal networks. Prioritizing those claims for payiing back chits on volunteer service often create conflicts that cause volunteers not to show up for key events. Solving this problem is not trivial.
4. The role of a progressive bottom-up grassroots group is to develop agendas, but it is also to recruit and vet candidates for public office, creating deeper and deeper benches of candidates for local, state, and national office. It must move from a dynamic in which the candidate recruits the volunteers to one in which the volunteers recruit the candidate and expect accountability in return.
5. The Republican Party has avoided all this nasty grassroots stuff by capturing local authority figures — high school teachers giving a conservative slant to US history course, preachers using their authority to tap the extensive personal networks of the members of their churches and the area and regional organizations of their denominations, local newspaper editors (who in most rural areas are small business owners) to use their personal networks of small business owners, and the rank and file Republican Party members last of all. Control the opinion makers and authority figures and use their networks of trust.
6. The blogosphere has allowed geographical expansion of interaction with progressives, who formerly felt alone in Mississippi or Alabama or Utah or Idaho and now know other progressives with whom to coordinate activities. It also allows discussion of issues and in the best cases defining a consensus position of progressives. And can relate bottom-up grassroots groups to a national agenda without having to construct a hierarchical organization.
It’s time to move beyond disillusionment to creating some clout.
If you can show me a politician that welcomes independent mobilized organized grassoots folks to hold him/her accountable, please, let me smoke some of whatever you’ve got.
QFT. I think this whole healthcare debate has made me actually more liberal than I was prior. The public option was the compromise, hell, most of the bill was the compromise and we were forced to give more and more. Why compromise at all when what you are left with is a feeble shell of the original policy? Why compromise at all when the other side gives nothing?
Heres a thought :
When Bush was elected the plan to dismantle the Constitution and go to war in order to project American power abroad (PNAC) was put into action knowing full well that in the end doing so would virtually destroy the republican party.
Obama ,running on progressive issues such as health reform and the restoration of the constitution and civil liberties then turning his back on them knows full well that in doing so he will all but destoy the democrats in November , but the advancement of the corporate agenda is worth destroying the party over !
This merely resets the clock and reinvigores the “other” party bringing them back from extinction. It’s a rigged game !
And be sure there are already contingency plans afoot for dealing with the emergence of third party candidates .
Thanks for that, it’s always nice to read something that is forward thinking. I know I love to bitch about the current state of things, but I like many just need something to do next. This is also why FDL has fast become my favorie blog, if only because the discussion in the comments are sometimes better than the original post themselves. I think a lot of it has to do with the lack of rating a post, it prevents pointless one sentence remarks and sloganeering.
Difference is that Bush fucked the democrat base after breaking his promise to govern as a uniter, while Obama fucked the democrat base after his promise to run as a progressive uniter.
Why is it that the Democrat base keeps on coming back for more, like an abused spouse, always thinking it can change him if just given one more chance?
thanks for the reply. you’ve explained very well how OFA is not grassroots organizing (i especially like your reference to the “listening part.”)
governance, unless the citizenry is relegated to the role of observer, requires grassroots organizing and a flow of info from the bottom up, not just top down.
that’s why it’s no surprise OFA has had no role other than campaigning. by design, it was not intended to participate in the governance phase. no bungling involved — ie i disagree with dday on this part.
i’m going to go even further and say, if we (progressives) want citizens to have a role in governance, then we must organize — and very importantly, we must organize in accordance with our progressive principles and our institutions must reflect that. to expect that we can organize in top-down businesses structures with no transparency let alone participation in the decision making processes and somehow get the opposite kind of governance in deecee is nothing less than batshit crazy.
my 2 cents.
just empathy. the only organizing i’ve done was very much without institutional support. fortunately for me there was community support from some very experienced organizers/activists. but still, it’s a tremendous energy and time sink.
I think the OFA was always meant to be a one trick pony.
Some of us were doing this even before the November 2008 election. We just were getting more grief at the time than help.
I think you continue to misunderstand the basic problem. Obama and the Democrats screwed us over. That wasn’t inadvertent or accidental. It was policy. The truth is that they are just not into us, as in not at all, ever, and we should not be into them. My criticism of this post is that you still think the Democrats are reformable or will respond to pressure from us. I have seen no evidence of this outside of a few flip statements and stillborn gestures, certainly nothing that has shown up in legislation.
Obama is proving every bit as destructive of the middle class as George W. Bush.
Oh, speaking of bad, the sublime irony just occurred to me: The Faustian adversary role in this little passion play is mummed by someone called “Emanuel”…..HEEEEEE!
(Oh, my poor wife. Now I’ll be insufferable all day!)
well said and imo very important to be thinking about. thank you.
i’ve sat through those “long, drawn out, tedious meetings” and as frustrating as they can be, i prefer them to being shut out and opaque governance.
i’ve also seen, just a few times, seen what looked like, at least in comparison, some really effective processes. maybe there are sources of experience and wisdom that could be tapped. not necessarily for solutions, but maybe for “good enough” models to use.
I have thought for sometime (well maybe since 1968) that local progressives have developed a bad case of learned helplessness. In areas where there are a lot of progressives, they are not to put a fine point on it lazy or lackadaisical, waiting for other progressives to pick up the slack. In areas where they are a signficant minority, they hunker down flattering themselves with police oppression fantasies for their inactivity. And on blogs a veneer of cynicism suffices to keep them from activity that might just change things. And when one or more them get together, the discussions over the right principles overshadow the need for actually doing something.
I keep hoping we’ll snap out of it and get smart. Maybe 2010 is the year.
even dictatorial governments will respond to pressure if the pressure is powerful enough. as things stand, progressives have no power. that, i think, is why the focus is on organizing — to create countervailing power.
I was a member of my local Democratic committee. We first had to plea for OFA to come to our county. A few did intermittently. However the OFA people that came to us were attractive and enthusiastic but did not seem able to take advantage of even the local experienced workers in and out the party structure. They seemed intent on getting us to call black folks to encourage them to vote. We asked for some general talking points and they really couldn’t answer.
I sure as heck hope so.
me too. just trying to brainstorm….
I read a good piece on OFA — and what Obama might do with it this year — on the Britannica Blog a couple of months ago, here:
http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2009/11/can-obamas-organizing-for-america-evolve/
Its by a political scientist named Daniel Galvin. He has quite a different take than Sifry.
What is the worst case scenario (as envisioned by Democrats)? That they will lose to Republicans. And what is the worst case scenario for Republicans? That they will lose to Democrats. But for the rest of us it is just one group of corporatists handing off power to another group of corporatists. Yes, the Republicans’ Supreme Court choices will be worse, but then they never are able to go after Medicare and probably Social Security the way the Democrats do. What I see is a corporatist tag team. You might just as well argue that the Republicans are susceptible to progressive pressure. Except we know they are not. Neither are the Democrats.
This is in response to selise at #56.
OFA was a proven election campaign model, not a governing model.
Word! Music to my ears.
And that explains the inchoate support for politicians from supporters who don’t know and/or can’t say why, they support their candidate, they just do. It’s the rhetorical analogue of the “flashy thing” from Men In Black: a highly sophisticated, even artistic, use of carefully crafted narratives chock full of symbols guaranteed to jack the targeted voting bloc. For a great illustration, of both the myths and how to bust them, watch Rachel Maddow’s segment, TRMS Investigates, on a mission.
“It’s a scintillating stratagem,” Harold Pinter said in 2005 in his Nobel Laureate in Literature lecture. “Language is actually employed to keep thought at bay.” (Video here.)
I’ve been working on a diary entry on this topic, focusing on examples from economists of two contrasting mythologies: cosmos as artifact vs. cosmos as organism; and their corresponding fundamental units of political economies: subjects of an arbitrary imperial will, as in the neo-feudalism Marcy Wheeler has been elucidating; versus self-sovereign citizens.
My thesis rests mainly on this definition of the science of comparative mythology from Joseph Campbell.
Neocon practitioners of the art of political lying jacked us to war in Iraq not with facts, but with myths, right? Myths speak directly to our emotions, bypassing (for the most part) our rational neocortex.
We’re not the Newtonian automata our sciences and politics imagine us to be. That image of being human turns out to be a voodoo doll. It’s an homunculus, a distorted model of ourselves that can be useful, but on the whole is doing more harm than good.
Can’t you just see Cheney huddling over a voodoo doll of the American people, fiendishly needling us to ever more war?
Many a time, when politicians aren’t making sense, it’s not because they’re insane or stupid, it’s because they’re speaking in metaphors and making myths. That’s why it’s so profoundly offensive. They’re using the power of our own dreams, terrors, and aspirations, to jack us around like so many toy soldiers in a world of perpetual bogus holy wars.
We need to bust the myth that’s creating this world of pain and powering this ungodly weaponized rhetoric. In part 4 of The Real News Network’s engrossing series, Crony Capitalism Unchanged, Robert Johnson eloquently describes the power of myth.
We need a national myth, Dr. Johnson is saying, what Papa Bush famously called “the vision thing,” for the health of the body politic, but not one that just jacks us to hell, one that leads us out of this Waste Land and into a more promising future.
I think the intentional jacking of public opinion with deliberately weaponized rhetoric is at the heart of the Obama disconnect.
So you could say, midwifing that vision while simultaneously “disrupting, dismantling, and defeating” all that rhetorical ordinance is my goal here at FDL.
Two words:
Manchurian Candidate…….that is Obama. Feel used? Well, you all should.
We don’t need any more mythologies, or spun realities which permit them, to stampede us over the cliff, as they please, when they please and because they can make us re live the Wille E. Coyote moment as if it was a brand new occurrence every time they do.
Time to hit the pause button on this loopy tragic/farce, and unthinkingly rely on instinct to protect us? Better angels?
Rethuglican supporters basically copy the talking points, whether proven wrong or not. Dem supporters seem to be used, tossed away, but still try to evaluate just what went wrong, why, how can we get the same outcome next time, if only we just deserve it more…..or work more diligently, or just go door to door canvassing, or mass shuttling voters on election day, or, or, or…….I gotta say, what keeps people supporting such a lost cause?
Gee, thanks, I feel better already. Not. Guess what? Many of us here weren’t fooled at all. So at whom are you throwing this invective? And how’s that supposed to help? Busting myths is one thing, kudos for that, but I could do without the passive-aggressive guilt trip, thanks anyway.
Let the Canadian beaver who has never been used cast the first stone. And before the throwing of said stone, let that beaver first distinguish between Used and Unused, with perfect accuracy, and in all earnestness, lest an Unused One be stoned unfairly. (Me, I’m fairly stoned most the time, for genuine medicinal purposes.)
Actually, this is one of the few progressive sites that isn’t still trumpeting the “just give him more time”/”he’s only been Prez for ___ days”/”he’s a chess player and he’s just above us all in his mastery” type comments. People here GET IT. I’m sorry if I offended. Was not my intent at all. Been reading this site for some time and just now signed up, after witnessing multiple attacks on Jane on other sites go unanswered by the site owners. I’ve had the misfortune of having the exact same thing happen to me with a political party.
You totally miss the point. You can’t do without a mythology, it’s the background out of which your awareness right now is arising. Mythologies that function unexamined, many times mistaken for “sciences,” are the worst kind.
Tell me, fuckno, in what cosmos do you spend most of your time? How is it composed, how does it function, how do we fit in? The answers to questions like these define your personal mythology.
We say people are sane or crazy, depending on how their mythologies compare with ours.
I’m glad you use the phrase “better angels.” That’s exactly what I’m saying.
Would you also say we don’t need any more psychologies, sociologies, biologies? I somewhat disagree: we need them to be sure, but we need them to be first and foremost human.
Our intentions materialize our realities. And so the fundamental unit of a political economy is a direct expression of the beliefs of the people so organized. How could it not be?
Thomas Frank, in his interview with Laura Flanders, put his finger on it. The Boy Emperor himself displayed the problem when he said, government should be market-based. That reduces us self-sovereign citizens into mere consumers.
What are we? What is the primordial, inalienable nature of being an American human: are we organisms, or mechanisms? self-sovereign citizens, or subjects of an arbitrary external will, whether that be a divine power or merely mechanical?
Our Constitution demands of us the former, yet our dominant mythologies conceive of us as the latter. Just pay attention to the terms with which you refer to biological systems, esp. us humans, and see for yourself how mechanized are our minds. WTFIUWT?
That’s the power of myth. Reducing the cosmos, and us along with, into Newtonian voodoo dolls, doesn’t make us proof against it. On the contrary: that outdated and discredited mechanistic reduction itself is it.
Well said, canadianbeaver, no offense taken. I’m just in an especially smart-alecky mood right now.
I am a great fan of the late Stephen Jay Gould and not of Campbell.
What you call myth is just the organic working of the “other cognitive system” called emotions. Those who learn to incorporate both into their intellectual life tend to do better than those who cannot.
Why call it mythology? Mythology is composed of factually inaccurate stories that are the result of incorporating and condensing a variety of ides, events and personalities. Useful short hand they are however difficult to modify with new knowledge.
Your so right ( no pun intended) about Obama NEVER getting the right to vote for him. Thats a given his real problem is he’s losing the Indies fast. They went for an awful corrupt Goper in NJ over the Obambot Corzine and they’re going to abandon the Congressional Dems. this fall as well. So, if he thinks pissing off the Progressive wing of the Dems. is going to make these people somehow vote for him he , Rahm and David are really dreaming.
Bingo. Give the man a cupid doll.
Let’s see; he’s a metaphysically great orator and an indecisive shallow pol behind the desk?
I’m not buying it. Are you?
“Tell me, fuckno, in what cosmos do you spend most of your time? How is it composed, how does it function, how do we fit in? The answers to questions like these define your personal mythology.”
So, I move from Plato’s Cave to Campbell’s sat chit Ananda, and here I am still watching self inflicted fuckery all around us, – ‘bliss’ it ain’t.
So, now I’m mauling over Marx and Engels; that is the cosmos I live in.
Sorry, but I completely disagree with your caricature of mythology. You’re way off. A myth is an image or vision, most often in narrative form, in which we believe ourselves to be acting.
I feel like I live at a time before it was understood that the brain has something to do with awareness. Take a good look at the background from which your awareness is arising. What do you see?
What are we? I’ve enjoyed many of your comments, TalkingStick, but it’s embarrassing to see otherwise knowledgeable and even wise people, like yourself, repeatedly make such a sophomoric mistake as equating myths with falsehoods. There’s a world of wisdom in our myths. Why persist in conflating them with lies?
By what myth do you live, TalkingStick? Or are you in possession of the one true Truth aka modern Americanized Western science?
Let me guess: the myth of the cosmos as an artifact, a construct, a thing made and assembled by the fully-automatic mechanical forces of nature as described by Western science. Only, like most religionists, you think your myth is truthiest and theirs is myth. Am I right?
I engage comparative mythology as a scientific art (as defined above @62). You seem to engage mythology as a thing to be discredited, derided, done away with by us sophisticated scientific Americans. That’s so eighteenth century!
Cool, well said. You know the words, but, as Jimi Hendrix would ask, are you experienced?
If I may ask, where is the border-crossing, between samsara and nirvana? Is there a checkpoint, a guardhouse, a demand to see your papers? Not in my world. Yours?
IOW, Heaven and Hell, bliss and suffering, are right here and now. Where or when else is there to be? Or, more vividly: the stinkier the swamp, the more fragrant the flower.
I bow in your virtual direction.
Nice one, I like it, I like it a lot. And I might even credit you. ;-}
One other thing. We have something in common, regarding Campbell: I’m not a fan, either. I’m a student. I happen to disagree with a lot of Campbell’s ideas.
Liking him or not, I suggest, isn’t the point. He lectured for decades at the State Department’s Foreign Service Institute. Someone–besides George freakin’ Lucas and the Grateful Dead!–took his powerful lessons, on the power of myth: the shape the “reality” in which we believe ourselves to be acting, to heart, and is now using them to play patriarchal war god the world over.
Denying the power of myth doesn’t make us proof against it, it only leaves us all the more open to getting jacked.
D’oh, forget to link that assertion about Campbell.
Obama will be a one-term president….The man is the biggest con job ever…..I never thought there would be a bigger con man than Bill Clinton and here is Obama for ya……I never thought we would have a worse president than George W. Bush and here is Obama for ya……..I never thought we would have such a fake for a president like Ronald Reagan again and here is Obama for ya……Obama as Abraham Lincoln—-NOT……
Obama is more like a Booker T. Washington than a W.E.B. DuBois.
Obama is a disaster and a fraud.
How many people live in your world of ‘leisure class’ ideas?
“Is there a checkpoint, a guardhouse, a demand to see your papers?”
I suggest you pose the question to the Palestinians living in Gaza or the West Bank. The Hindu farmers that are committing suicides en mass, Darfour, Congo,…. Tell them about your Cosmos. Fuck, just walk out your door, hit a shelter and give them a piece of your, undoubtedly well meaning solace.
No need to try to intimidate me with mockery of my views. We likely just come from different directions. I am a humanist. The UUs like to describe folks like me as “spiritual humanists” Even they just can’t get beyond the notion that emotions are irrational and must be in the service of some supernatural entity or at best incomprehensible mystery.
In my view,myths are the stories we tell ourselves to get through the day. Like teddy bears they are wonderful transitional objects. And as well a substitute for emotional reality. As f—no declares. They can be manipulated and spun to make us question our own capacity for recognizing truth………. for the purposes of others.
I respect your commitment to your belief system. But that is what you describe is.
The main problem I have with elevated belief systems beyond their personal use is that they come to serve as I say as substitutes and interfere with the potential for incorporating emotional cognition into full intellectual development and emotional awareness.
.
I in no way deny the power of myth. I wrote last evening in a different thread of the power or the mythology in recruiting complicity of ordinary, even highly intelligent people in the cause of Nazism. One has only to look at the mythology informing our right wing fellow citizens.
The only common ground that men can find is that of truth. There will always be great diversity of our myths which certainly add a richness to everyday life but as you say in our personal life we each must live our own story
BAHA! No, you goof, the finger with which I point is not the thing to which I point. You’re mistaking denotations for connotations. I’m referring to structures of your psyche, you mistake them, reduce them even, to bricks and mortars.
And not just any, but (you suppose) the most sympathetic, thereby to induce the most pain in me. I say again, BAHA! Take a look at my user name: I’m Buddhist, my mythologically cavalier friend! You might have at least have tried to hit me with guilt from my own tradition.
Not that it would do you any good.
Care to guess again? I must warn you, you’re playing on my court. Try thinking more metaphorically. Try this one on for size: where, precisely, is the boundary between “you” and “me,” or any other so-called “thing?” Is there such a boundary?
That’s the border-crossing I’m talking about: the one that you assume divides you from nirvana, bliss, The Other, or what have you.
And please, the whole “you’re an Ivory Tower-type idealist, ignorant of the “real” world,” is so old hat. We Buddhists get that all the time. If I may recommend one of my favorite living philosophers, I think you have the intellectual fortitude to handle Changing the Way Society Changes: transposing social activism into a dramatic key, by Peter Hershock of the East-West Institute, Honolulu.
If you’re not denying it, how come you’re always pointing out its power over others, and in a decidedly negative light? By the power of what myth do you live?
Sorry, TS, I’m not mocking you, a thousand pardons for any offense. I’m in an exceptionally smart-alecky mood, forgive me.
But you have an obvious disdain for my scientific art, reducing it repeatedly to things that aren’t to be taken seriously, like teddy bears, cuddly blankets, at best, and much worse.
Says you. I think you owe the whole field of comparative mythology an apology.
It is encouraging to see bigger groups like MoveOn actually demanding change and a public option in health care.
“I don’t think that the political team at the White House understands the enormity of their problems.”
I think they don’t give a sh**. What? Where are you gonna go? To the Republicans? To Ralph Nader? Come on. I wish the author was more blunt. The Obamas wanted to take the fuel out of the grass roots movement to control the spin. They didn’t want demands, except from Wall Street.
And I think that progressive sites HAVE to take responsiblity for Obama’s now roughshod ways to the progressives. When I posted to liberal sites like Feministing criticisms of Obama, saying that he took more Wall Street money than Clinton, I was called a racist, a plant of the right wing, etc, etc…. And even now, on some sites, it’s all about “giving Obama THE WIN” on health care before the state of the union address. Hey. How about Obama giving the win to the American people? How about fulfilling his campaign promise of health care for all with a public option? Yes. He did. Say that. And he actually criticized Mccain’s enforced insurance buying for all citizens.
Enforced insurance buying is a massive transfer of wealth to private companies with no promise of coverage. For the first time in US history, the IRS will enforce the direct transfer of wealth to private companies. No messy bills and tax allocations required just direct sweet, sweet money and to boot– the govt is the enforcer of the citizen checks for private companies. Sweet.
Any – and I mean any progressive site that pushes for this health care bill just to give their hero, Obama, the press win, are scabs to the progressive movement and whores to the corporate lobbyists and to the Obama image machine. Serve the people not the corporatists.
For a Buddhist you don’t seem to give much weight to the concepts of prajna or shunyata . Let me parapharse the diamond sutra
Myths ar true
myths are not true
myths are both true and not true
myths are neither true nor not true
I honor your commitment to your beliefs.
My real point in reference to this gathering is that myths have their power in personal interpretation and the emotional experiences evoked.
The only irrefutable common ground for us all is objective truth. That is where we will find peace between us.
I suggest re reading Keats. Simple straight forward. Profound.
Nice one! ‘Bout time someone else brought the Buddhism. I bow in your virtual direction.
I’ll see your paraphrasing of the Vajracchedikā-prajñāpāramitā-sūtra, and raise you my own translation of the Heart Sutra aka the Prajñāpāramitā-sūtra.
The received version of the heart of the Heart Sutra reads: “All dharmas are sunyata.” To my anglophonic ears, that’s just gibberish.
Taking each of the central Sanskrit terms of Asian mysticism back to their radical roots, we the hear the pivotal sentence of the pivotal sutra of my way of being Buddhist thus: all [holding or carrying] is [essentially self-emptying]. Need I say more?
For example, freeman, can you tell me precisely how these words and spaces, right here and now, are relaying to you my meaning remotely?
Oh fuck it, I can’t wait to tell you. Imagine, if you will, holding in your hands a steaming hot cup of your favorite elixir.
Just so, these words, right here and right now, are the self-emptying vessels of mind; into which experience is pouring; from which our shared awareness of this event is arising; and from which our behavior is flowing like water.
Given this kenotic nature of being human, where are we to draw absolute and eternal boundaries? We don’t find boundaries, we impose them.
I’ll ask again, since you’re so smucking fart, what is being said by the spaces between these very words?
Here’s where I’m getting this concept.
That is to say, life is not a “-ness” thing, a characteristic of an independently extant object; life’s an “-ing” thing, as in “be-ing.” In this way of translating sunyata we can see the infamous empty Void springing to life.
That was fun. What else you got?
OK, nice of you to say. I’m more a student of poets like Whitman and Emmerson, esp. the New England Transcendentalists, but I’ll take your advice.
maybe you are thinking of only electoral political only?
nixon didn’t give us the epa and osha because he was infavor of protecting the environment or worker’s rights.
there are other ways to pressure politicians — but this gets into the realm of social movement politics. here’s just one example of anither kind of pressure: picture a few hundred thousand people doing continuos sit-ins surrounding capital hill and thousands more at every rep’s and senator’s office. congress could be shut down by non violent protests. that would be pressure.
there’s lots of stuff like this that can be done, but it takes massive organizing and training over years.
either that, or a ‘spontaneous’ uprising of a thoroughly fucked over population.
imo, considering the economic outlook, the second is more likely.
What in, transcendental terms then, would be your assessment of Walt Whittman’s position on the Mexican-America war, in view of Emmerson’s opposite one? How do you get both of them settled in the comfortable shade the bodhi tree?
Too many words not enough spontaneity .
Your philosophy is superimposed upon a reality greater than can ever be truly expressed in a system of ideas and even that statement is inaccurate.
Besides Buddhism is a myth . Though I share the Bodhisattva’s foolish attachment ,once you have crossed to the other shore … why bother staying in the boat.
The universe knows what it’s doing , try to stay out of it’s way .
In answer to the question of what can be done to solve our problems in the political arena under the bodhi tree I fall back on the Zen method . We should all just sit quietly and the political system would begin to collapse spontaneously .
Puppets are too easy to manipulate .
Okay, we disagree on that then. I am convinced that, along with all the other things that went and go with the motivations, Obama long had and still has a great desire to do genuinely good things for the nation. The idea that he is nothing but a cold and calculating proponent of sheer selfish ambition with no desire to help, no desire to make a mark for the betterment of millions—that is just as much a cartoon fantasy of what a real person who attains his office is really like as is the fantasy notion of him as a brilliant and transcendant leader. In between, there’s a fallible but intelligent (not a world-class gigantic genius, mind you) human being who, while wanting to do much good, also has all the usual baser motives and finds himself in one of the most difficult posts of responsibility in the world.
Citing you:
“Let’s see; he’s a metaphysically great orator and an indecisive shallow pol behind the desk? I’m not buying it. Are you?”
A “metaphysically great orator”? No. But, following Bush’s act, with his speaking talents, which are genuinely good, he doesn’t have to be stellar to stand out. So, he’s orders of magnitude better than the truly and embarrassingly inept Bush.
“An indecisive shallow pol behind the desk” ?
First of all, he’s not that indecisive. His cutting and splicing, his obsession with seeking a compromise position, all that is born of deliberate decision, not indecisiveness. If anything, he’s had overconfidence in the usefulness of that approach. “Shallow”? Compared to what or to whom? George W. Bush?
I don’t understand why you want to insist on such a Manichean view of things. Obama, a child of very seriously depraved times, is a product of those times, a product of the television age, and, at the same time, a bright and typical “over-achiever” for whom rather too many honors and awards, too much gushing praise, have come too easily for his own good.
But you go overboard in the other direction. You offer two alternatives, both of them caricatures of reality.
Hey, how about the navel-gazers get fully detached? It’s funny that these jokers argue about over-achievement and detachment so — attached-like. While Rome burns.