That’s very nice of him to keep us informed. I mean aside from none of them actually saying anything.

Kabuki!

We will have at least 218 votes.

Wether or not this is “kabuki” and im sure it is, even if they dont have 218 in the bag yet, we still need to be fighting this thing.

That’s the spirit and I agree. This bill will not be perfect, but it is better than the status quo. I like to remind my fellow Democrats that we would be in a better position now if Clinton would have succeeded in his reform effort.

Then again, I’m a corporate Democrat. j/k

I absolutely believe that no matter who we get t to vote against it they will come up with enough votes, demo or repubo, because thier employers on wal st want them to. but we will get the opportunity of disecting the staged farse, and pointing out how the whole process has been a series of secret meetings, threats and bribes from on high, and a forgone conclusion and a complete mockery and fecal smearing of the phony democratic process in america, as it stands today. we are no more a democracy( or “democratic republic” you libertarian weirdos) than was rome under the ceasars.

lol. RIGHT. lets play golf and get drunk and dicuss how we can screw over “the little” people and yet feel self satisfied and sanctimonious about it sometime

I am a liberal democrat. Both bills are pathetic. The House Bill is better than the Senate’s. I feel like a kid who is hungry and told to eat wood shavings because mommy and daddy have been on a binge and forgot to buy food. Kids can’t vote, but I can. We need to be thinking about removing some democrats from office and replacing them with others.

Eli is upstairs!
How To Be A National Security Expert

Aww, D-Day, you left out the best part of the leadership presser.

Pelosi: “There were a number of things he was for on the campaign trail.”

Zing!

Will the Progressives stand up is my question is there any better issue to make a stand on than this one? Is there any better issue to go to the mat for?
Threaten to kill every vote on everything for 6 months unless we get National Healthcare for everyone no questions asked paid for entirely by taxes on the rich.
Either that or the Dems will lose the next election. Either the Dems start fighting the White House or they can end up like the Republican Party after Bush left.

You aint lyin.

Not zing, IMO. She’s excusing him. She tosses it off, “ha ha, la la”.

On the public option, she said its goal was to hold insurance companies accountable, and that “there are other ways to do that, and we look forward to those discussions.

I clearly misunderstood the public option. Now that I know it is about making sure that insurance companies use good accounting practices and report their profits back to the government I will have to take back everything.

Well, if everything is killed for 6 months, the timing would be just about right for an exit stage left.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/05/rahm-emanuel-reportedly-c_n_411852.html

Calling anything now, better than the status quo, is illusory.

If you refer to the Senate Bill, alone, as it stands, it will prove to be MUCH worse than the status quo as it strips Medicare, Medicaid, and bury’s any attempt at reform in a sea of government and public debt, therby giving all the reason to strip ALL entitlements from any federal and government funding and support.

But thanks for the corporate rhetoric.

I’d say we’ve had all the opportunity we need to dissect this for all the things you list. No need to wait for something to pass to call it for what it already is and is going to be . . . corporate feudalism.

You’re right. Let’s do nothing and then allow those “the little” people to continue dying due to lack of coverage. Good idea.

No, the progressives will NOT stand up, because they are not really progressives or they would have dug in their heels LONG ago on FISA, TARP, and early this year on HCR.

So, the simple answer is No. No standing up. All about corporate capitulation. No pony’s, no dreams, no hope.

It’s over, it’s done, finit, completa. It’s a fait accompli.

And then, the people are gonna really get pissed at what happened, and at having to buy some crap that won’t really give them care OR coverage, and well . . . the system will continue to run itself broke and the government will bail it out and we’ll lose Meidare, Medicaid, and then Social Security . . . after that, public funding of education is on the block.

This is it, this is the flood coming thru. HCR (the lack of it) opens the floodgates to drown the villagers of social conscience.

Yes, it’s that bad, IMHO. Get ready . . .

This bill is only the first step in actually saving Medicare. In the Senate bill alone seniors will get 3 free annual preventative checkups. Both bills expand Medicaid, the House more so, which I think is a good thing. Over 20 years, the bill saves the government 1.1 trillion dollars. I think that’s a good thing also.

signed,

Corporate Dem. (snark)

When this shit passes, and is implemented, you’ll see first hand how the little are STILL screwed and not helped, and how MANY others besides ‘the little people’ are gonna get screwed.

Mandates, rising and continual long term unemployment, and no way for we the people to pay for housing, food, transportation much less pay for mandated health insurance that will not really cover them or deliver them care?

And you cling to some notion this crap is going to be better than this?

Nah, we fully disagree, hoss, on what reality exists, and will exist.

Is reading the bill or objective analysis actually to difficult for you to comprehend? Those who need help with paying for coverage will get the help they need.

Either you’re a teabagger in drag or lacking serious critical thinking skills.

Dude, I don’t know where you get your calculus for saving or expanding Medicare or Medicaid. It’s not from Senate Bill 3590 language as I’ve been told by many posts, links, quotes of the bill language, and comments and diary’s.

And there’s NO proof or analysis that’s been offered, that this present HCR process will ever be improved in the future, but LOTS of detailed analyses that it is the closing of the barn in destroying the present government support for health care delivery thru Medicare and Medicaid.

Yer killin me.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2010708304_healthnow06.html

This bill is only the first step in actually saving Medicare

That bill you speak of is in dreamland, not the actual text in the Senate bill, and even the House.

Show me the text lines in the bill that proove your assertion.

‘Cause here’s the thing; only the Democrats can shiv Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security. And they’re going to, led by Obama.

Keeping Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security on their current paths will “shiv” them.

I always forget that the firedoglakers know more than everyone else. Silly me.

Have you read any of the 200 or more posts in the past 6 months here at FDL that have quoted bill languages, cited research, and offered all the things I’m saying?

That’s MY citation and attribution, and it discounts and breaks down every single thing in the present Senate Bill that can be and will be circumvented in one manner or another . . . I’d post the few hundred links to those thoughts but FDL has a policy I think about how many links one CAN put up in a comment.

I suppose you actually believe the Senate Bill 3590 ( think that’s the one?) will put an end to recission, and end to exclusion for pre existing, an end to annual and lifetime caps, expand coverage for all, compete with private insurance to lower premiums, allow for generic reproduction of drugs and prophibit evergreening, and enable reimportation of drugs. Oh, and reinstall the anti trust laws to break up the insurance companies who operate on a few monopolies across the nation.

I think that covers it, lemme know how you intend to prove any of that . . . by reading the language in the bill don’t cut it hoss, that language has already been taken to task with how private insurance and PhARMA and the med delivery system will get AROUND any language that looks like it’s reform.

Yer killin me, but worse, yer killin the people you claim you are trying to save, all them ‘little people’.

Good luck, we’ll see in the end which way it turns out . . . ;-)

It’s a matter of priorities.

See, if you quit paying for dumb wars, or tax them, cause you know they’re not free, you end up with plenty to pay for Medicare/Medicaid/SocSec.

What are your priorities?

Like I said, that stuff has already been shown for the false reality the bill’s language offers . . . hundreds of posts here at FDL have shown that.

Man I wish I could unload my saved folder on HCR with them hundreds of links that spell it all out in detail.

But alas . . .

Sure…
The problem is they will not have enough left over to pay for their actual medical treatment.

Kelly, I wish we could unload the post and article links to the hundreds of posts and articles that FDL (and you) have published in the past year . . . actually, in the year, the number is likely in the thousands, my folder only has a few hundred saved, though.

Heh, I even have articles from a guy who posted really progressive stuff before he went WAPO on us all . . *G*

BTW, responding substantively to the actual lines in the Senate bill that do what you claim would be helpful.

See, there ya go again, assuming any of us have said ‘keep it on the same path’ . . .

That’s not our message, that’s not MY message.

Tell Carl Rove to get you some updated talking points, cuz this is old and tiresome . . .

Rescission – no
pre-existing – yes
end caps – yes
expand coverage – yes
competition – yes
generic drugs – not sure
re-importation – no
anti-trust laws – depends house – yes senate – no

Funny, anyone to the right of Fidel is obviously a Rove plant.

New premiums that the uninsured can’t afford cuz they are unemployed for a year or more, then unregulated co-pay costs, then reduced care or denied care, and don’t GET me started with costs for any drugs needed that you have to pay for out of pocket cuz the insurance don’t cover them or only covers them at percentage that don’t matter because the price of the drugs were hiked up by PhARMA anyways . . . .

Yep. Thanks for wading in on this stagnant pond being thrust at us as a pristine Lake Tahoe!

*G*

Still interested in your personal priorities about what we pay for in the budget, and waiting for the lines that prove your assertions.

If I had a time machine, we could avoid Iraq, but I would still invade Afghanistan. But the reality is that we have to finish those wars up the best we can and not make the same dumb mistakes. In a perfect world, the one where firedoglakers love to imagine we could be at, I would want a single payer system like France has.

Dude, there IS no House in this scenerio, there is only the Senate Bill 3590 that will pass in full in both chambers.

Didn’t you pay attention to even TODAY’S FDL postings and analyses?

Yer killin me.

Fidel was a facist in sheep’s clothing, and what’s he got to do with you mimicing pure Rovian/Rethug/Corporate Based talking points that have been discounted by progressives near and far, and thoroughly debunked here at FDL?

Nice pattern, evade, bring up disingenuous point, accuse. Weak, hoss, really tepidly limp and weak.

Yer killin me.

here’s a pdf of the bill, so you can look up the text to support your assertions.

http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act.pdf

You managed not to state your preference. Would you rather pay for war first, and people’s helath at hoome next, or vice versa? Cause we can pay for war with a war tax.

We could have single payer if you and everyone else stood up and demanded it.

And demanded an end to foreign occupations that would easily cut our national debt and support rebuilding our nation for jobs, and healthcare and infrastructure.

Do you want that, for us, for me, for yourself, for everyone?

Do ya, Tar?

The House has more sway than firedoglakers believe. The House will cut the neutered public option to get more of their ideas into the bill. I think that the House will get the high risk union jobs exempted from the taxing of their generous plans.

O, dear firedoglaker, as you are one if you’re posting comments here, the Power of The House doesn’t elude us.

That’s why we’re putting pressure on the house.

Still waiting to my question to you @41.

Yes, but once again there’s a real world and the firedoglake world. I can say anything that I want to happen, then there’s the reality of making it happen. Expanding coverage to at least 30 million people and reforming the insurance industry is a huge accomplishment, but still not enough for the infants at firedoglake who will hold their breath and stomp their feet because the bill isn’t perfect.

Two simple questions waiting for you @41, that don’t need insults in response.

Kelly, others, thanks for wading in here on the side of reality as we know it.

I stayed out of the blogs a bit recently, cut back a lot. This was fun, but it’s the same tiresome game played out over and over, and this one Tarheeler has reeled me in fully for its own edification and enjoyment.

It was fun to play for a bit, I’ll see Pups upstairs later. ;-)

BTW, It DOES hone one’s response chops, I admit, as I have a LOUSY memory and have to keep looking things up. I’ve now got a pretty good rap about the HCR pic ingrained in my brain due to constantly saying the SAME fucking things over and over, and reading the same things over and over . . . so thanks for helping me practice Kelly and Pups!!! *G*

Do.Not.Feed.
You guys are being drained, that is it’s purpose.
Do.Not.Feed.

I just told you, but unless you want to act Republican about it, we have to pay for everything. There’s an annoying tendency on the left now that thinks that because the Republicans ran up a huge bill doing what they want, we can do the same thing when it comes to our agenda. Once again that’s childish. We inherited bad Republican fiscal issues, but we still have to deal with them.

The HCR effort as it stands just will NOT expand coverage to 30 million nor will it in any way, shape or form reform the insurance industry. But if you REALLY want to believe that, can I have your pony in exchange for not arguing with you?

Heh, I only let them suck outta me what I want to burn off, like Holiday Calories . . . ;-) this one got tiresome, again, as they all do.

Howdy Newtonusr . . *G*

And now to explore beyond the troll horizon!!! lol

Thanks newtonusr, but not drained in the least.

I’m actually practicing for a deposition, where I’m the one being deposed by a ridiculous plaintiff.

This “deponent” is not doing a very good job of answering direct questions, and littering the record. Things I must continually remind myself not to do. So it’s a bit of fun on my part.

And DANG mind my manners, David Dayen thanks for the post, I didn’t respond to it because you and others pretty well covered what I think of today’s House Presser . . . KABUKI! *G*

You’re right. The whole year of debate from every stakeholder is wrong and the firedoglakers have all of the answers. The CBO is wrong. The health reformers in Congress who have been attempting this for years are wrong. Everyone is wrong and Jane’s lemmings have all of the answers.

Sure, but in what ORDER of importance do you have for our health at home vs. war abroad?

Simple question. Who comes first? Health or War?

I’d say, given what I’ve read of you the past few days, yer in game form and ready to rumble, hoss!

Give ‘em hell, Kelly!

*smackshisasssportslike*

Put up the pony or we’re done talking hoss, I want your pony.

You don’t HAVE a pony, do ya, Tar.

Didn’t think so.

Buh, by.

Lemmings! My favorite!

Now, point to the actual text in the provided bill above which supports your assertions.

I’ve read this thing over and over, and what you claim is not in it.

Defend by fact, not “lemmings”

It’s interesting to me I haven’t insulted you once, yet it’s fine with you to insult.

Very good! We have a priority.

Now there’s a mechanism beyond “time machines” to pay for the war. It’s called a war tax, and you don’t have to like that idea. I’m just saying it’s available, and it’s a false choice to sacrifice our health at the altar of war.

There’s also a crazy idea that we could lift the caps on SocSec income beyong the current ~$106,000 per year. But that irritates rich people and we don’t want to do that, do we?

As to your assertions of what the bill does/doesn’t do.

Still waiting.

Ha. I’m sure they’re terribly disappointed you noticed. :-)

Still, to be fair, what would you expect at this point?

I love the smell of kabuki paint in the morning. He he. LOL

I’m for a war tax and lifting the caps to pay for social security. Once again it easy to just fire off good ideas. It’s easy to say that. Doing those things is what the challenge is. But still a 12.1 trillion dollar debt that will keep expanding is going to need more reform than that. Passing good ideas through the meat grinder of Congress is what I’m getting at here. I want single payer, but getting there now is not possible. This round of health reform is what I’m excepting now.

It’s this kind of optimism that keeps me coming back time and again. /s

Didn’t you get the memo? Everything is fucked and ruined forever.

Although, I’m just a corporate whore so who knows if I’m right.

Truly, thank you for that. I believe you are sincere in that comment. I really do and I’m not being snarky.

Your beliefs/wants are the most imprtant part here. It’s is a total bitch that Congress is a meat grinder. We all get that. And I get it that you accept the current round of alleged reform.

And that’s why I use that word “alleged.”

What this legislation is, is a Win in the Win column for the Dems and Obama, but you really can’t articulate or prove the places in the actual Senate bill where its actually REFORM. What you can articulate are the talking points from the “Win” folks.

I appreciate your earnestness on this damn long football field and trying to gain some Dem ground. But what it comes down to is this:

The Dems are NOT reforming health care; they’re insuring Health Insurance profits. And when people finally get that, it’s going to be a nightmare.

Pelosi would only say that the final product would have to ensure affordability for the middle class, accountability for insurance companies and accessibility to health care for all,

Let’s see: I would judge the “current bill” on EACH side of the aisle as FAIL, FAIL and FAIL on all of those counts.

Of course nothing about mandates or women’s reproductive rights.

no sequence, not in parallel, not related, not not related, they just are in action and evolving to a good end for all

Is the corporate view always the same as the Teabaggers/Right-Wing-Loons “gov’t is the enemy” meme?

If we could just enable people with the PO, the Exchanges and subsidies and the fed health care centers & such, then many more would get insurance and have very real use of it.

The mandates are just a political nightmare.

I can’t understand what you wrote. “Not related, not not related…” etc.

As it’s constituted right now, yep, nightmare.

I disagree. The problem is that government has fucked up so much stuff as of late, the people don’t trust government right now. This is partially the fault of Democrats and almost exclusively the fault of Republicans. If we had more trust in government we could have a public option and one day a single payer system. The things we are doing today are actually amazing considering we just were in an era where George W. Bush won two elections. In 2004, I thought the Democrats and the left were dead forever, now we are leading the national direction. We are not getting the perfect solutions, but we are at least doing something about health care, the environment, financial regulation, immigration reform, and rebuilding our credibility around the world.

The way I see things is that Obama and Rahm decided to work within the system to bring about progressive goals rather tearing down the old systems and starting new. There’s too much power and money to fight against right now, so they cut deals with pharma and the insurance industry to at least get modest reform done. Do I like that? No, but they could have easily killed any attempt to create a single payer system.

I’m just not as dogmatic as some on the left are these days. If we have to drill for oil here and build more nuclear power plants to get cap and trade, that’s fine. If we have to cut deals with drug makers and insurance industries, that’s fine. If we have to patrol every inch of the southern border to get immigration reform and citizenship for 20 million people who came here illegally, that’s fine.

My basic premise is that as of right now we can do a lot of good by working within the system and cutting deals to get better results. They are not perfect and I wish we had 60 Bernie Sanders clones in the Senate and 218 Dennis Kucinich clones in the House, but we don’t.

p.s. Thank you for being civil.

There’s too much power and money to fight against right now, so they cut deals with pharma and the insurance industry to at least get modest reform done. Do I like that? No, but they could have easily killed any attempt to create a single payer system.

When WON’T there be too much money and power? And guess what? They killed single payer. It was off the table to begin with.

If we have to drill for oil here and build more nuclear power plants to get cap and trade, that’s fine. If we have to cut deals with drug makers and insurance industries, that’s fine. If we have to patrol every inch of the southern border to get immigration reform and citizenship for 20 million people who came here illegally, that’s fine.

By basic premise is that as of right now we can do a lot of good by working within the system and cutting deals to get better results.

Drill baby drill, nuke power, PHrMA deals, keep the brown people out, cut deals in general.

Change YOU can believe in. Sounds the same ol’ thing to me, only with a different President.

I tried in good faith with you, but evidently it’s the team sport, and not actual change or results that matter to you.

I’ll be going now.

When won’t their be money and power in politics? Probably never, hence the reason for trying to continue the push in our direction even if we have to cut deals with the forces pushing back.

Drilling in America and nuclear power actually produces less carbon than what we have now are doing now, plus with cap and trade still a part of the package, that would spur the usage and production of cleaner technologies. Pharma kicking at least 80 billion and maybe 100 billion if we are lucky is a huge thing considering it will help close the doughnut hole for our senior citizens.

Keep the brown people out? What the fuck does that even mean? For one not all illegal immigrants are “brown” and two, helping them achieve citizenship status is not keeping them out. A reformed immigration system wouldn’t force “brown” people to cross the fucking desert every year where many “brown” people die because they are just trying to better their lives They cross the desert and come here illegally because of our broken immigration system.

Cutting deals is the art of politics, but I’m glad you are back to your childish ways.

Hey, maybe you can think really hard about creating our left-wing utopia and rant on left-wing blogs and then shit will get done.

I love this place.

If we accept the reality at hand, it offers the ways needed to change it.

So far, too many won’t accept the harsh reality, and the change attempt is ineffective.

I’m not about optimism, much . . . . glass is half full as long as you can prove it.

So far, proof is, it’s half empty and draining fast.

Now, given that, what to do?

I don’t know, never have professed to know.

Only know, people won’t engage until they are desperate and have no choice. By people I mean the masses it takes to DEMAND change, force change. So far, the masses ain’t moved, but they sure are taking a royal screwing.

How much will they take before they decide there’s nothing to lose but GET engaged somehow or another, en masse?

I don’t know. As I said up above, wish I could predict what the level of desperate it takes, and then predict what the actual actions will result in once that desperate button is pushed . . . .

But for now, we’re dying slowly, and faster slowly, every day the status quo continues.

Thanks for your snark tag . . .*G*

Or evergreening, or reimportation of drugs.
Kabuki.

The mandates are just a political nightmare.”

No they are not, they are a death sentence for many, many thousands annually, already described and documented, and whose numbers will likely escalate rapidly as the Senate Bill cuts in Medicare and Medicaid kill seniors, the unemployed and uninsured, and more.

Sigh.

“When won’t their be money and power in politics? ”

There, not their.

LeSigh.

Better. I expect better than this idiotic sniveling from these people.

Isn’t Rangel in jail yet? or do they need his vote first?

Resission—Yes,Just ask the out of work under worked or the person that had to take a pay cut to work.No only for bankers and those with enough to have be promised a return on there Investments.TARP to WALL STREET should have been put toward U.S.American based production of goods jobs.Good paying. JOBS=TAXES=BENIFITS=SELFESTEEN=LESS CRIME=EVERYONE HAS A HORSE IN THE RACE.

but I would still invade Afghanistan

You really should consider a different screen id. Lefty in this case would only apply if we move the line over into Republican territory.
tarheelconservative might be a bit more accurate.

Cutting deals is the art of politics, but I’m glad you are back to your childish ways.

Hey, maybe you can think really hard about creating our left-wing utopia and rant on left-wing blogs and then shit will get done.

I love this place.

The art of persuasion disguised as self-important attacks on the same people you claim to best represent. The difference between your position and say Newt is different only in that Newt doesn’t generally claim he is a lefty.

I completely agree with you but there is a valid idea here.

If the mandate survives court challenges, which is questionable only because the SCOTUS is so far to the right, the promoters will drag others around them down by association. The clear winners are the people that wrote this dreck – the health insurance industry and the lobbyists.

PRE-EXISTING—yes???—When the Doctors have to follow insurance guide line.Blue Cross,Prudentialand Kiser Doctors told me to learn to live with my condation.When I was in such bad shape that biteing a bullit was a choise my cousin insisted that I go to the VETERANS HEALTH CARE from day one Veterans Hospital Emergency the Doctors and staff went to work My quality of life has improved.I ?????????? PRE-EXISTING CONDITION with Insurance Co.deffination.HEALTH INSURANCE IS NOT HEALTH CARE.

ENDING CAPS ON LIFETIME??? CAPS ON YEARLY COVERAGE.—-Do you realise that 1 trip to the Hospital a short stay in intensive care can cost everthing you have worked to gained in life???

EXPANDED COVERAGE??? Walking on who Do you want your children to have to decid if being in poverty is better than working up to middle class.Sickness would make there choise for them.

COMPETITION yes??? From where and at what profit and over head level.Who to say what overhead is?

GENERIC DRUGS and IMPORTATION of DRUGS???I’ve been told that one of the drugs best for me cost $50,000.oo per. year.You can get it from Mexico for $300.00 per year.haven checked this out I have VETRENS HEALTH CARE not Insurance Co. coded care.

ANTITRUST LAW yes or no—-What will be the differance. Who would enforce the law we already know the insurance industry can buy the Health Care Obama,Senateand and Congress is caveing.

Obama is using the FBI against Conyers Wife, Charlie Rangel, and John Murtha. Obama is an absolute fascist. Read page 1020 of the senate health bill. Harry Reid put a perpetuity clause in the bill for the IMAB. How many millions of people will be denied care under the imab. Wake up my lefty friends. Obama is a fascist. He is controlled by Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, and Wall St. Kill THIS BILL while we still have a country. We must return to the policies of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

Brian Crowell Economist, Teacher
supra5677@aol.com

TO SUM UP — There 1 US CONGRESSMAN that has said he would HONOR his signature on the letter that 57 of the Congress members signed on JULY/30/2009.JANE HAMSHER posted August/16/2009/4:57pm.If these anyone of these Congress People for anything less than what was said in that letter can we ever trust them to do what thay say thay would do.Remove them from office.Progress does not have to be made by walking on others less fortunate would you want someone to do it to your children.Progress BY STOPPING A BAD BILL.THANK YOU THE PRODUCTIVE CITIZENS FOR THE HEALTH CARE I HAVE.WOULD GIVE IT UP IF ALL MY FELLOW CITIZENS COULD HAVE THE HEALTH CARE I RECEIVE FROM VETRANS HEALTH CARE AND THINK MOST VETERAINS WOULD AND I’M SURE THE COMBAT VETERAN WOULD THAY HAVE OFFERED MORE THAN THAT FOR A RICH NATION.SEMPER FIDELIS

It’s worse:

“Rescission – no CAN REFUSE IF “FRAUD”
pre-existing – yes BUT EFFECTIVELY NO BECAUSE CAN CHARGE 400% MORE PREMIUM
end caps – yes BUT EFFECTIVELY NO BECAUSE ANNUAL CAPS CONTINUE
expand coverage – yes BUT ABOUT HALF IS MEDICAID – NOT THE $600B INS CO GIFT
competition – yes BUT SENATE IS STATE BY STATE WHICH DOES NOT WORK
generic drugs – not sure FOREVER STUDY QUALITY PLANNED
re-importation – no – AGAIN FOREVER STUDY QUALITY – CANADA IS SO LAX!!!!
anti-trust laws – depends house – yes senate – no”

Afraid fact free posts just sound silly – single payer frees 5 to 8% of GDP to do more productive things – it releases capital. How it bankrupts and causes bond default for the US is kind of hard to follow – impossible to follow once you realize that the gov has the power to tax. By flowing health care dollars through the gov rather than the ins co’s you do get a meaningless larger ratio of gov budget to “GNP” – which is a problem only to the concept that that ratio has meaning (Paul Samuelson – not Robert – was my econ Prof at MIT back in the early 60′s).