I’m surprised this keeps coming up, but Jonathan Cohn takes another stab at the theory that the health care bill does not rest on the fate of Martha Coakley in Massachusetts. In doing so, he rules out two of the three options for passage. He says that Olympia Snowe does not appear to be gettable any longer, and that getting the bill passed quickly before Scott Brown would be sworn in is also unlikely.
Therefore, he says (and actually Cohn’s relaying the thoughts of some Democratic insiders here), the House would simply pass the Senate’s bill, and be done with it.
Such a move could be quick; unless I’m mistaken, the House could hold such a vote this week. It would also be perfectly legitimate: When a chamber votes to pass a bill, as the Senate did when it passed health care reform on Christmas Eve, it’s effectively offering to make that bill a law, pending the other chamber’s approval. And that offer is good through the end of the Congress, even if the chamber’s membership changes.
Would House Democrats go along? It’s hardly a given. Centrists, many of them as ambivalent about reform as their Senate counterparts, would be tempted to use Coakley’s defeat as an excuse for voting “no.” Liberals, meanwhile, would chafe at supporting a bill that includes so many unpleasant compromises.
But there are good substantive reasons why both sides should be willing to vote “yes.” And there are some good political reasons, as well.
If this were just a case of the merits of the bill, that could be the case. Enough of the 39 conservative Dems would see the Senate bill as closer to their priorities for health care reform to offset liberals who may defect. And House liberals always seem to come back to the herd anyway.
But that treats passage of the Senate bill in a post-Brown environment as a policy and not a political problem. Cohn says that anyone who has already voted for the bill has sealed their fate on it in terms of attack ads, but that doesn’t account for those who, in Cohn’s world would flip their vote to Yes after a Republican was elected in Massachusetts largely on the slogan that he would be the 41st vote to block health care. As Ben Smith notes, there would be mass panic (Mass panic?) in the caucus, and people don’t usually pass political courage tests in that environment.
And you would have to get some flippers, because the pool of 220 votes from when the House passed their bill in November is gone. Robert Wexler resigned, dropping it to 219. Setting aside the fact that the affordability credits aren’t good enough for the House, the excise tax deal with unions would be invalidated, the exchanges would be state-based, and all the rest – just on the abortion issue alone, and remember the Nelson amendment is in the Senate bill, which Bart Stupak has derided, you probably lose a dozen more. It’s pretty confirmed that you’d lose three – Stupak, Republican Joseph Cao, and Steve Dreihaus.
Democratic Rep. Steve Driehaus said he will oppose any version of health care reform legislation that doesn’t clearly prohibit federal funds from being used to pay for abortions.
“I believe in clarity and simplicity, and we should make it simple and clear that taxpayer funds aren’t going to abortion coverage,” said Driehaus, an anti-abortion Catholic from West Price Hill.
Dreihaus is the guy who’s down by 17 points for re-election in the latest poll, so he’s probably dying to come off the bill anyway. So a bill with no negotiating room on abortion won’t fly, because those dozen or so Stupak holdouts won’t have much of a problem tanking it. And that’s presuming every liberal swallows hard and takes the bill as it is.
If something is to pass should Brown win, it would only be available through reconciliation – ask Chris Van Hollen. Heck, ask John Podesta, as David Gregory did on Meet the Press yesterday:
I think that there are paths forward and that the, the Congress will find a way to pass healthcare reform because they know they absolutely have to do that having gotten this far. And there, there are a variety of different paths.
I think that the one thing I disagreed with about–that [a previous speaker] said was I don’t think the, the White House would be happy with just the Senate bill passing. I think they want to see some changes and they have to find a way through reconciliation [or some other way.]




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Shouldn’t the headline read, “The House won’t pass the Senate bill”?
Does anyone think Dumbo is regretting Rahmbo, yet?
How about Geithner?
What about supporting LIEberman?
Is the smart president getting a clue, yet?
When you make the base your prison-beatch then, you should not expect a Valentine’s Day card.
I see no evidence that O has learned anything. Well, maybe some wrong lessons.
When Geithner, Summers & Bernanke are gone; when the government starts warring down Wall Street rather than propping it up, then it is possible for the vendetta mentality that has captured the Middle Class to ease.
But that still wouldnt be enough, I’m afraid.
fixed!
I agree Obama is a slow learner.
They should go ahead and pass the damned thing just to get it out of the way. Passing it is in my view not going to add to the harm already being done.
It is a piece of trash, even likely to be regressive but I do agree failing to do so would be more devastating to hopes for a framework in which to elect and support less conservative legislators. But it’s a crap shoot.
So the final bill gets worse some more?
Absolutely correct, it will not be enough. He will need to transform himself from a war president to a peace president.
Time for a third party. Neither one represents me. Remember , WE pay our congress people’s salaries…not the other way around.
As a country, we have been increasingly treated with disdain once our leaders get to DC. obamarahm is the worst. Dissing the very people who put him in office.
I am only masochistic to a point.This s— has got to stop. WE have to call , beg and cajole for legislation that actually does something for US and not corporations. Then after all that law gets passed for corporations and against US every time.
The Justices on the Supreme Court who voted to stop the vote count in 2000 need to step down as that was illegal.
OT
6.0 earthquake in Guatemala, initial reports say no serious damage.
I also just learned that a niece was in Port-o-Prince for the earthquake. She is fine, but remains there. His sister is guessing she’s trying to figure out a way to help.
Has anyone [our old pal Nate Silver, perhaps] done a calculus of the REPUBLICANS who may cross over to SUPPORT this bill, now that they’ve seen how radioactive it is for Democrats?
Surely there are enough Republicans who are retiring [so they don't have to run on their "yes" vote] who could jump on over to “help” the Democrats tie this anchor around their necks.
There’s the Right, there’s the Left, and then…there’s the…
Left Out”.
WHOLE lot of folks in the “left out” category.
TPM is reporting that a deal appears to be in the works that, if necessary, would have the House pass the Senate Bill and then fix it later through reconciliation. Good luck with that one.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/plan-b-democrats-consider-how-to-pass-health-care-if-coakley-loses.php?ref=fpa
Lucy queues up another football…
The swing voter in that debacle has already stepped down.
Link.
Would that I were as optimistic about the peace option.
If history is any clue then he will have to create a situation that says “don’t change horses in the middle of the stream”. Peace does not coincide with that stragegy. Iran, Georgia or some other Caspian Sea neighbor being fairly optimal countries that need saving. Kazakhstan’s gold is a bit of a stretch but Azerbaijan has always needed to be saved so that Georgia can be safe. China’s control of so many rare earths being protected by a large foot army make it a bit of a challenge.
Once again, this doesn’t address the abortion issue, where Stupak is not going to take “we’ll fix it later” for an answer. And I don’t see any Blue Dogs enthused about passing a bill with a secret deal that it will soon get, from their perspective, worse.
The MSM is up to their old tricks.
Obama, Rahm, and the rest of the sorry Dems are trying to sell this HCR Bill as progressive
The reason Coakley is losing in Mass, is because she is not a real progressive, PERIOD.
The MSM is telling everybody that independents have left Coakley, the DEM base has left Coakly. The last time I check MASS is a DARK BLUE state.
Obama and Rahm have been expose for being ConserverDems.
Candidate Obama showed up yesterday talking about how Progressive his agenda has been. WOW!!!
The question is what has Obama done that is progressive.
Increase War in Afghan
No Public Option
No Drug Importaion
Obama the Hope a Dope is Over!
I need to replenish my earthquake supplies. Going to get water, coleman fuel and canned soups.
Thanks, mother nature for the reminder to be prepared.
Wake up people most voters don’t read polls or follow politics close enough to know the details of the health bill.
They just want some help with the least amount of trouble.
The more you bash Dems the more losses we will see in 2010.
Brown Must Win To Save Health Care!
The present health care agreement is garbage and everyone knows it. There is ONLY one viable alternative from a Progessive’s point of view. If Scott Brown wins, Congress needs to pass a new reconciliation bill, reflecting a more liberal agreement. Rep. Chris Van Hollen said as much on Bloomberg TV over the weekend.
People need to call on MSNBC, the only network that in any way represents the the interests of the American people and encourage the network hosts to start pushing this new reconciliation bill agenda. Write in to the liberal newspapers, demand more from the President and your elected officials. There is still hope for economic justice.
Note to Jane and Arianna- help!
Yes, you live in an earthquake prone region.
Point taken, but you yourself said Democrats in the House tend to come back to the herd.
Besides, Rahmbama has access to more than enough jobs and other booty to buy off any Blue Dog who might be out of work next January.
You still here?
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen David Dayen and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Thank you for another post remindin’ us of the obvious that no one seems to be recognizin’ and that is that the Clintoncorporatist strategy of breakin’ up the progressive Democratic majority in congress is doomed to failure regardless of what happens in November of 2010 or this Tuesday in Massachusetts. Even if the Democrats lose control of the House and Senate (unlikely in either case) the Democratic Party remaining is gunna be much more progressive than the overweight majority party it is now and ObamaRahma will NOT be able to triangulate with the fascist Republican majorities because the fascists will NEVER give this President a single vote on anythin’ and there will not be a single Blue Dog vote left to sell out.
The strategy of the Democratic Party must be to kill this healthcare mutant in the womb and start an insurection in the party to get Howard Dean put back in charge of the DNC. Get the Democratic organizers back in every state of the union includin’ Alaska with Howard Dean directin’ traffic and ObamaRahma will have nowhere to go except change parties and ya think the lunatic fascists will hold out their arms to the bastards??!!
The Obama Presidency is dead in the water already, let’s work to get him the fuck outta office and write ‘im out of history.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE FUCKIN AMMUNITION, LOSE A BATTLE BUT NOT THE WAR…THE STRUGGLE WILL ALWAYS BE HERE!!!
Peace is not an “option.” It is an obligation.
I don’t see why Rahm won’t just somehow force everyone into line to make this bill pass.
Maybe it is me but I wld have serious reservations about supporting a bill that was the impetus for the dems LOSING a seat in the bluest of the blue states. If all these people are against it you wld think that someone in the dem party wld say wait a minute lets see what passing this bill is going to mean to our party in the future. Passing this bill is important to Obama bcz he thinks it will save HIS ass, he is not really worried about the democratic congressman who loses their job for supporting it. Obama is asking a lot of people to die on the sword for his insurance company bill, we will see how many decide to do it.
And, haven’t had one for sixteen years. I have dipped into the earthquake supplies for camping, and it’s been so long, I need to go through the cans and throw out the old ones, get newish.
Yikes. It’s difficult to Stay Awake, like Organic George says, follow polls, politics, world and human rights and keep up the earthquake supplies.
Not to mention rescue stray animals. It’s a long list.
Brown Must Win To Save Health Care!
The present health care agreement is garbage and everyone knows it. There is ONLY one viable alternative from a Progessive’s point of view. If Scott Brown wins, Congress needs to pass a new reconciliation bill, reflecting a more liberal agreement. Rep. Chris Van Hollen said as much on Bloomberg TV over the weekend.
People need to call on MSNBC to get the word out, the only network that in any way represents the the interests of the American people and encourage the network hosts to start pushing this new reconciliation bill agenda. Write in to the liberal newspapers, demand more from the President and your elected officials. There is still hope for economic justice.
(Note to Ed Shultz – you collapsed on Afghanistan. you can redeem yourself by pushing hard for reconciliation in health care).
Note to Jane and Arianna- help!
A perfect storm, I am so loving this.
: )
Norske, there is no such thing as a pre-digested Democracy.
Pass the Pepto AND the ammunition!
Citizen robbep:
ObamaRhama have painted themselves into a very small corner and it doesn’t matter one bit what happens to the healthcare bill, the Obama presidency is over. But if the Democrats can kill the bill without makin common cause with the lunatic Ron Paulites, then the Democratic Party will have moved far to the left of corportist politics and Obama’s corporate masters will drop ‘im like a used condom.
I’m not all that sorry that the House won’t pass the Senate bill.
Senate Democrats and Obama systematically wrecked what should have been – what could have been -, “the most important piece of social legislation since the Social Security Act passed in the 1930s, and the most important reform of our health care system since Medicare passed in the 1960s.”
Those were Obama’s words on Christmas Eve, when he tried to bullshit the American people with false praise for the Senate bill.
Obama can say that Democrats are delivering on “the promise of real, meaningful reform,” but that only makes him a bullshitter with better rhetoric.
Barak Obama is his own worst enemy. He thinks he’s the first post partisan President. What this country needs is more partisanship from the Democrats not less. The Republicans know this are taking advantage of Obama’s weakness and naivete. With Coakley’s likely defeat the WH will read the tea leaves that they must now move further right. The further right they move the more catastrophic will be Democratic losses in 2010 and 2012.
Bro, you are smart as shit but you an I both know that NOBODY knows what can or will happen in the next three years. Come on.
I have to confess that I was one of those people who was really energized in 2008 and gave a lot of money to Obama, the Dems, and various other organizations (except for the Human Rights Campaign, which had already proven itself to be worse than useless). And now I’ve more or less lost interest in everything that’s going on.
The Dems are struggling right now to pass a really crappy health care bill, and none of the major players seems to have any interest in fixing it. The Dems in the Senate went out of their way to claim Joe Lieberman as one of their own, so both Dems and Republicans have been saying that the Dems have a filibuster-proof supermajority in the Senate, when in fact they don’t. This means that they’re going to have to own every shitty concession that they make to Lieberman.
There’s been little movement in gay rights at the federal level. In fact, things are so bad on the gay rights front that the biggest crusader for gay rights right now is Ted Olson.
Where, exactly, is the change? In terms of getting things done, I’ve seen a lot of carrots–to Wall Street banks, to wishy-washy Senators, to basically everyone who DIDN’T fight like hell to get Obama elected–but I haven’t seen any sticks, except when it comes to beating progressives for asking for what we were promised. Joe Lieberman can get blown by just about anyone in DC these days, while progressives have spent the last year having our faces rubbed in dogshit. This isn’t what I signed up for.
@#34
I am suffering from my first post partisan depression.
Wonder if that will be covered in the HCR?
As I understand it, much of what is needed in health care reform could not be done through reconciliation.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/08/can_reconciliation_work_for_he.html
The details on this seem murky.
If dems were willing to ram a bill through the senate budget reconciliation process, what would have to be left out- and would the house support it?
Citizen Raven:
YOU are the smart one Brother Freebird and if I can figure this thing out so can you… so even if my political pronostication is wrong, the truth of history will out and the corporate bosses will have no use for Obama after 2012.
I said liberals in the House tend to come back to the herd. The Stupak Dems, by and large, have no problem with tanking this bill and would be happy to use the abortion issue as a pretext for the same. If Rahm could “force people in line” to vote for the bill, it would already have passed by now.
Citizen rwcole:
You are, for once, right on the money but actually I hope ObamaRahma does try and send this pig through ronconcilliation because we will never hafta worry about ANYone usin that route again like the fascists did under Bush. The mess in the economy and the death of healthcare reform must now be hung around Obama’s neck…it will kill the Obama presidency but strengthen the Democratic Party.
Jane has a fresh cross-post already in progress: Driehaus Doubles Down on Stupak
Question in 1967: “What do you think of the French Revolution?”
Chou En-Lai: “It is still too soon to tell.”
Then what?
If they pass it, we’re stuck with a piece of crap that won’t do what they told us it would, and no way to fix the damned thing.
Kill the bill.
I don’t believe in the ‘fix it later’ maneuver. I’ve seen it too many times in business and in politics, and nothing ever gets ‘fixed later’. There’s too much stuff that comes up for them to get around to the fixing, and the people who promise it have a tendency to either forget their promises or leave office without fulfilling them.
Lets hope and pray that Scott Brown wins Tuesday.Most of us wanted Health Care.We did not vote for Obama and a Democrat majority to turn the Health of the American citizens over to the insurance conglomerate and the Doctors on there list under insurance controle for profit not Health Care.
dday, if the house leadership was at all interested in their own bill (hr 3692) then why didn’t they make the substitution?
here’s kagro x from jan 1:
as far as i can tell the house did nothing. which leaves hr 3590 as the only bill available for reconciliation via official conference committee (as opposed, i guess, to the non official negotiations now taking place at the white house with congressional leadership). or alternatively, the senate bill is still available for the house to pass as is — doesn’t this make it look as though the house leadership was intentionally leaving open the possibility of passing the senate bill and that is why they didn’t do the substitution?
Will President Obama ever realize that his rope-a-dope-with-hope strategy is no longer working? How stupid does he think we are? They now think they can win us over by “explaining” this Big Insurance Mandate Bill to us!
There is so much talk about how if Coakley loses the conservadems will not vote because this will happen to them too.
I cannot believe people are this stupid. Does it ever occur to them that Coakley might be losing because progressives were punked by Obama? Did anyone learn anything from the Virginia gubernatorial loss? Or did they just see what they want to see?
The mindless, relentless pushing of the same tired ideas, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, is sad. I thought Obama was a smart guy. I guess Rahm can blunt any mind, however sharp.
When is the penny going to drop? Is it ever?
Once was sufficient for that piece of dim.
Dear PJ,
I don’t understand your response. Could you clarify?
rahms role as an enforcer, and a whip for the white house is only as potent as the white house is strong. when the house and senate caucuss members start milling around looking for their own alliances of survival, as they are certainly starting to, then you know the white house is weak, and rahms position,(thanks god) is growing weaker along with it.
What in the world makes you think that reconciliation would be used for anything other than passing some more corporate dictation?
so i’m guessing the union deal would die in this scenario too. Trumka et al can’t be too happy if this happens.
The failure of this bill in the House wouldn’t affect progressives much at all – most of them are in safe D seats by any measure. It will be the centrists and conservaDems who will be sweating bullets about their seats. But that won’t stop them from bailing out on this bill – these people are closer ideologically to GOPers anyway and will be desperate to end the pressure instead of having to take another vote on a reconciliation bill. So I agree Coakley’s defeat will end all attempts at HCR until after the fall elections. But that’s fine with me – the current bill is worse than no bill, imho.
Smart or just cunning? He appears, after all, to be a consummate politician, and cunning is certainly a prerequisite.
Do you know of any who say they will not vote for the bill who voted for it last time? We have a congressman in our district who has been under immense pressure not to vote for the bill. He always sides with Pelosi so am thinking he was let off the hook on the first vote but sure if they need him he will vote for it this time.
“Justices…need to step down…because what they did was illegal.”
YES!! That’s the solution to the present corporatist court: Impeach the criminals who voted to give Bush the Dimmer the election.
What the Fascist Five did was either: 1.) Incompetent; or 2.) Treasonous. Either is grounds for impeachment; and the latter is grounds for criminal action.
Of course, Obama is proving that he isn’t even “up” to denying the banksters their pelf, or reaffirming the Bill of Rights, let alone mounting an impeachment campaign. But it damn sure SHOULD be done…
Hi rwcole.
It’s as simple as starting over with Medicare for all. No problem using reconciliation then, if the powers that be so desired.
Medicare for all could be used to accomplish all the stated reform goals. The current 2000+ page loophole laden corporate friendly versions don’t come close.
He campaigned on increasing our involvement in Afghanistan.
He was against the mandate and Congress forced it on us.
He was for the Public Option and Lieberman (I suppose) stopped it.
Drug Importation was on the table and it was being used to delay progress.
It’ll get done soon on it’s own merits.
Don’t forget Lily Ledbetter!
It appears Don’t Ask Don’t Tell will go by the wayside some time this year.
He didn’t install a dictatorship to ‘save’ the economy.
We’re not torturing (so far as I know).
He’s trying to close the GITMO prison…if Congress will allow it.
He’s going along with Congress on pushing for the Green Revolution.
He supports EFCA if they can find a variation on it that will get through Congress.
He’s improved international relations and America’s reputation.
It’s not all been a Hell on Earth.
I don’t know how you force anyone in Congress when each and every one might be THE crucial vote.
Besides, even if it wasn’t so tight and Rahm could do something to force their hand, would you want to belong to a party that behaved that way?
Another reason for the citizens of Mass. to vote for Martha Coakley is that her voice will be heard individually. Dems don’t steamroll their senators. We listen to them as they speak for their state.
Vote for Coakley!
Special insurance coverage for post-partisan depression? Heh. Pretty good.
If the Dems don’t pass their number one agenda item (as the party platform says) then the Republicans will never let us live it down and their argument that government doesn’t work and that politicians are all inept, corrupt or liars will ring true.
It’s not just the HCR at stake, it’s the big picture political question the Republicans have been posing for some time now. Can government work as it has been said it can? They’ve done everything they can to ‘prove’ it doesn’t work. Dems have to prove them wrong or else.
If Liberals can’t get out and vote for Martha Coakley then Mass. will lose a good leader, a Dem majority in Washington and the moral authority of a party that claims it can do healthcare reform.
A lot is at stake.
Vote for Coakley!
Keep smoking that rock. I don’t want to deny you the imaginary world you’ve cooked up for yourself. Keep believing, hope will undoubtably lead to action. Lol. Obama will need you for his 2012 campaign. Be prepared.