Thank goodness.

Indeed.

I hope he gets life w/o parole. We don’t need martyrs.

He is a dangerous deranged man that should be locked up for good because he poses a danger to society. Let’s hope that the swiftness of his trial and conviction send a message to like minded evil idiots.

Rush must be rushing to poor, benighted, dear, misundersood, stand-up-kinda-white-guy Scott’s defense, plus all those C Street “Family” off-shoot churches will be sobbing about how sad it is that Scott cannot be free to just be him… protecting all the unborn. No doubt they will all pray for Roeder whilst decrying Dr. Tiller.

Amirite?

Thank goodness some sort of justice prevailed. I am a little surprised by this, but will be surprised only if he gets the maximum sentence.

Phew !! It does seem that we live in a TOTALLY insane world. Nice to see, even within this horrible context, that it isn’t so.

video of reading the verdict here

No matter where you are in the country, juries seem to take their job on the jury seriously. In a lot of cases, more so than do judges.

This judge and this jury, despite initial indications deserve thanks.

Next up. Time to throw the book at Roeder in sentencing. Max life.

It’s the correct verdict, but is it sufficient for what he did? He continues to say he has no regrets and he knows he’ll be hailed as a fucking hero by crazy people who will try to follow his example. He’s getting exactly what he wanted, no?

Nice to see we still have laws in this country next I want to see Bush on trial.

How can this – trial of domestic terrorism possibly be legitimate since he wasn’t tried in a military court?

I’m no great advocate of the death penalty, but isn’t a case like this one exactly why those who do support the death penalty say it’s necessary?

Good.

Exactly. Murderer doesn’t seem to be sufficient. Terrorist seems more appropriate.

Last night, I wrote Scott Roeder Faces First-Degree Murder; Judge Rules Against Voluntary Manslaughter because I’ve been trying to decide whether what Roeder did qualifies as terrorism and because, if it does qualify as terrorism, I wanted to know why there weren’t outcries from the right when Roeder announced that he wanted to use the court as a forum for spouting his political views.

Clearly his motives in taking the stand in his own defense were not to convince anyone that there was any imminence of danger on a Sunday morning in the back of a church.

Being a Hero and knowing the best part of your day is eating cold oatmeal every morning will get old fast. Unless he meets a nice man.

The terrorism analogy is so apt. God save us from self-appointed Divine Agents.

Cheerful thought: He’ll likely become a jailhouse preacher. What will he preach to those who will someday be released?

Boxturtle (I only rob abortionists, Your Honor)

Execution is way too good for the likes of this guy. Plus, it would make him a martyr. I’d much rather see him confined to a maximum sercurity slam for the remainder of his days, preferably in general population. (No isolation cell crap. Let him get a taste of the main line…)

Imprisonment is way more brutal (and just) than an easy injection, followed by a long nap.

Randall Terry:
Verdict came in so fast, shows Roeder didn’t get a chance to defend himself

Roeder may find that he is not very popular in prison – one can hope.

I couldn’t agree more. This self-righteous bastard needs to be dead, buried, and forgotten.

How soon before we see “free Scott Roeder” posters at crazy people rallies?

As long as this piece of shit lives, he’s fuel for the fire for the nuts.

Pro-life murderers stick together.

He also didn’t have a jury of his peers and it’s not as if twelve gun waving maniacs would be all that difficult to find.

Roeder didn’t get a chance to defend himself

Defend what? He admitted the killing and the judge (basically) laughed the idiot “saving the lives of the unborn” defense right out of the courtroom.

Nope. Mainline for this guy.

I think he’ll have plenty of support from crazy people on the outside and, more worrying, I think he’ll be hailed as a martyr (Greek word meaning one who bears witness for his or her beliefs, usually by making an ultimate sacrifice) who some will believe is worthy of imitation.

Deep stir is the place for dudes like this, Rudolph, Kazinski and the rest. One hour a day outside the cell and no publicity. Have fun motherfucker.

When a person is sentenced to life in prison ends up getting murdered I feel like the system has failed… not that I have a lot of confidence in the system.

So, you condone rape under some circumstances?

Justice Prevails!

Actually Roeder’s own words condemned him as a violent, and continuously dangerous terrorist. He admitted not only the actual murder, but of conceiving acts like cutting off Tiller’s hands. His only REAL defense would have been “I was brainwashed into becoming a obsessive sadistic murderer by the controlling propaganda and influence of Randall Terry”. Then he may have had an insanity defense.

Yes, he did get to defend himself. Against the strong objections from the prosecutor, the judge allowed him to speak to the jury and make his case for a lesser charge of voluntary manslaughter.

See my diary: Scott Roeder Faces First-Degree Murder; Judge Rules Against Voluntary Manslaughter for what Roeder said and what the judge ruled and why.

Btw, why does Randall Terry assume that the jury returning a verdict quickly implies that he didn’t have an opportunity to defend himself? Does he have no idea how the system works?

Murdered was not what I meant. I just hope he is given a really hard time – shunning might be best if solitary is not available with this sentence. Many in prison seem to get religion and it might not be considered a good thing to murder a minister.

Good.

Thank you. It makes me very uncomfortable when rape is considered a part of prison sentences, as if it were earned in addition to the given sentence.

I agree with Raven that he should receive no publicity, no chance to interact with like-minded lunatics on the outside who might be disposed to regard him as a hero.

No, I guess not. I could wish that this person’s prison experience is much worse than, say, a kid who commits robbery out of need; but no human deserves to be violated. I would not condone it–point taken.

Agreed. thank you.

Yes, I realize it is impossible to protect inmates from acts of violence but some effort must be made. When we denounce violence but allow some exceptions we relinquish any claim to moral superiority.

Good on you. and Eureka Springs, to you too.

Sure he will be a Martyr but just smelling the same thing day after day watching Dukes of Hazard reruns he will not enjoy himself.
Rush and that crowd will forget about him and who will look after his family, folks etc? Forgotten and Ignored is not a life I would choose.

SuperMax him. Let today be the last day anyone on earth sees his face or hears his voice or speaks his name.

And peace to the Tiller family.

He said that he’d been thinking about killing Tiller since 1993, that he first visited Tiller’s church in 2002, and that he went to the church with a loaded weapon two times before he finally killed Dr. Tiller last May.

He had a chance to defend himself. The judge let him take the stand and speak to the jury. His defense was bullshit. The verdict was correct, but just doesn’t seem sufficient.

All of the inhuman abuses of our current penal system this prick will get to enjoy. The GOP never speaks about prison reform maybe they should start that GOP Opporative in La might be visiting soon and I’m betting he talks if faced with real time.

The right must be worried if they can’t get jury nullification in Kansas for their Crazy’s and then we get ACORN Pimp behind bars I’m thinking the GOP dirty Tricks squad might find new work.
Can we get ACORN Pimp behind bars before the election we need to send the GOP a message.

The original comment evidently got modded, which leaves my reply hanging out there like some bizarre non sequitur. Oh well.

We need to start calling these people what they are. They are religiously motivated terrorists. Their stated purpose in blowing up planned parenthood offices and clinics where abortions are performed, and assasinating medical professionals, is to strike terror in the Medical community to stop them from performing abortions. They are domestic terrorists. You do not need to be a muslim to qualify.

I noticed, and was kinda relieved, since my original reply – that went to you – was to Twain, who took your point.

I’m thinking he’d have more fun in general population, although I doubt he’ll get that opportunity. Single-cell isolation wouldn’t be quite as…um…exhilarating for him. Maybe he could open up a little tatt shop on the main yard…for about 15 minutes, give or take…

I rather enjoy bizarre non-sequiters, actually.

I hope you noticed the original author’s acknowledgment @ 35, which is good enough for me. I only hope people will think twice before they make those kinds of suggestions.

Stay tuned. :-)

I would never condone rape. If what I read is correct, it not only happens in prison but is allowed by the guards who pretend they don’t notice. It is a horrible thing.

Exactly.

and Twain, thanks, it’s just not a condition to take with equanimity.

No it means the jury had no doubts he was guilty.

Blue Texan’s regularly scheduled post is ready: Blanche Lincoln Calls League of Conservation Voters “Extremists”

He faces additional Federal charges.

Ironic isn’t it, that he felt moral superiority, in that by his personal decision he took another life as if it was his personal decision to make. I’ve had enough moral superiority for the day, [Edited by Moderator: Certain terms can mean different things to two different people, so they are better left out of the discussion.] They can stop when 25 years are up. Good Day.

A comment got deleted which kind of messed up the thread sequence. Nobody would ever suggest you would condone violence of any sort. I consider you an exemplary individual, Twain.

Not one jury member held out and argued the prolife defense of the unborn even in Kansas I’m starting to think the right is not as popular as they think they are.

The judge didn’t allow them any room, it was an up or down vote, guilty or not guilty. Since Roeder acknowledged pulling the trigger it would have been difficult for the jury to reach a different conclusion.

So, although the jury reached the proper verdict, I give most of the credit to the judge.

I’m not so much concerned with him enjoying his martyr status than I am with the idea that others will think of him as one, admire him for what he did, and imitate him. If that happens, the terrorist has won.

On the stand, he said he was inspired by others:

Roeder testified that he admired Shelley Shannon, the woman who shot and wounded Tiller in 1993, and he had visited her in prison in Topeka. He said he also sought out other abortion foes who were open to using force against abortion doctors and considered them his friends.

No!

That was in reply to a comment that was later deleted by the mods.

I’m glad you agree.

Similar comment to the one which was deleted @ 55, if the mods are still around.

Thank goodness! Although, I think any first degree murder conviction should automatically eliminate any chance at parole, ever.

Maybe. I’d prefer the death penalty which, I believe Kansas still has. Otherwise, there’s a good chance Palin’s Supreme Court will let him go for good behavior which they think it is anyways.

25 years is plenty.

This guy will live in PC. Danger will come when he is out for shower or 1 hour exercise period. His only safe time will be when he is locked in his cell alone. Martyr? OK as long as it is past tense. Killing is murder as the judge knew. Correct verdict.

Whether you agree with the death penalty or not, if I were a bookmaker I’d give Roeder about even odds of pulling that ultimate penalty.

This was FIRST DEGREE murder. The death penalty MUST at least be considered, seriously. The convicted murderer went out of his way to say that he wasn’t sorry for what he did. Too bad for him, but that’s going to weigh very heavily during the penalty phase. Any expression of remorse or regret is a mitigating factor. The affirmative denial of remorse is an indication that if he is ever freed he will re-offend. That puts anything less than life without parole out of the question. He’s made his cold steel bed, and now he will have to lie in it.

If the death penalty is not an option then he should not see the ligtht of day again as long as he lives.

What? Oh, well, why should I expect logic from Randall Terry?

Fifteen minutes, they say? Having sat on a couple of juries, I can promise you it took less than fifteen minutes. It takes ten minutes for the jury to walk down the hall, enter the deliberation room, get a cup of coffee, and sit down and get ready to deliberate. Once they are done, they have to notify the bailiff that they are ready to return to the courtroom. My guess is, once they sat down, it took about one minute just to make sure everyone was sure, and they were done.
I’m glad justice has been served, for once.

Yeah, this is my favorite part of today’s decision. Jury sits down, looks around the room, quick first poll – guilty, guilty, guilty, etc. – pick a foreman, write it out -done.

Restores my faith in the jury system, of 12 regular folks of reasonable intelligence to see right through the bullshit and do the right thing.

And, though he’ll be eligible for parole in 25 years, unless he changes a lot, he’ll admit that he will do the same thing again if released, so he will never be released.
That’s, of course, assuming that in 25 yrs there are any doctors willing to perform abortions.

I believe it is dangerous to write of Roeder and his supporters as being crazies. There is a valid logic to what he did if you accept his premises. Now, I don’t accept the premises, had known George Tiller for almost thirty years, and I defended his practice before the Kansas State Legislature.

Randall Terry is at least intellectually honest in his support of Roeder whereas most of the abortion opponents want to have it both ways. What I would like to see is a grand jury convened to look into whether there was criminal encouragement of Roeder by the abortion opponents that at least implicitly supported him.

make that “off,” not “of.”

It’s difficult to find a truly adequate punishment for killing another human being. Perhaps the most appropriate would be a life in isolation from those he would try to encourage, and bombardment with information showing that his efforts to try and stem women from having the right to choose has not only failed, but perhaps led to greater efforts by those who want to assure reproductive choice.

He should be denied all access to the media and contact with his supporters. His mail should be restricted and censored. And any activities that he does to earn a few cents for cigarettes, TV time, a video…should have a portion of that money dedicated to Planned Parenthood, Women’s Sanctuary Organizations and Scholarships to Medical Schools that offer training in abortion methods.

Don’t know much about the rules of logic, do you? A valid conclusion follows from the premises. Just because one or more of the premises is false does not render the argument invalid; it renders the argument unsound. Roeder’s conclusions validly flow from his premises; that is what makes this dangerous; there is validity. So, before you call me a [Edited by moderator] name again, kindly familiarize yourself with the basic rules of logic.

There is a god and she is pissed off at the Talibangelicals for taking her name in vain. Have to say that I am somewhat pleasantly surprised by this result. might almost restore my faith in human nature.

Are you looking for vengeance, or justice? The problem here, as I see it, is there really is no justice available in these situations. The victim, and the victim’s family cannot be made whole, even in an approximate sense. It seems to me, however, that in a “just” society, recognizing this reality and holding in balance consequences for actions rather than vengeance is the task, and a difficult one.

And this is one of the things that should be absolutely stopped. Non-relatives (with the exception of lawyers, and perhaps a non-denominational minister who is not involved in advocating for the cause that “motivated” the perp is convicted for) should not be allowed to “visit”. Prisons should not be used for advocacy, as recruitment centers, etc. This does not impede a prisoners rights to obtain an appeal through the legal system or appeals by their lawyers for support for new investigations that relate to it.

To the point of using the death penalty. Death is only a tool for recruitment for those that believe in martyrdom through death. Religious zealots, whether Christian or Muslim have no sense that such a death is actually a penalty (as the “victim” will be entering paradise).

Justice. Committing someone to death or to compel them to suffer brutality in prison would be vengeance. But creating conditions that would deny the perpetrator “winning”, by knowing that his every act of small pleasure was in fact doing the opposite of what he sought. And making his followers aware that he was, in fact, obtaining such privileges (thus helping pro-Choice groups or women seeking abortions or doctors training in such procedures) would be justice.

I see your point. Sort of like forcing sex offenders to be chemically castrated so they can’t engage in or enjoy their fantasies, which I am not opposed to.

If he’s guilty, the surely Bush is guilty also. They both supposedly “killed one to save many.”

The prosecutor put on the record just after the verdict that she would be filing for a “Hard 50″ sentence, which means 50 years before eligible for parole, not just the 25 mandatory. Roeder would be 101 at that time.

Even with the trial judge taking voluntary manslaughter off the table, there would have been the possibility of jury nullification and letting him walk. I am hopeful that the conviction will act as a deterrent toward anyone else who might be inclined toward violence.

I want to give KS one big sloppy kiss for this just verdict of 1st degree murder for the piece of shit roeder. Maybe a trip to KS instead, where I’ll shop in their stores, eat in their restaurants and tip big. Time to see the glories of KS corn, yessir. This is a good moment in these depressing times.

I can’t say I’m surprised, actually. I don’t think nullification is as common as people claim, at least in killing cases. And as such cases go, this one was pretty clear cut.

The guy plotted shooting a person in the latter’s church on the Sabbath and stalked him over several days. Premeditation couldn’t be clearer, and the imminent danger/greater-evil defense couldn’t apply given the fact that it was Sunday morning in church.

So you could be as antiabortion as the defendant and believe in every claim the defense made–and you’d still have to find the guy guilty.

Scott Roeder, the man who killed abortion services provider Dr. George Tiller, has been found guilty of first-degree murder in a Kansas courtroom today. The jury took just 15 minutes to deliberate on their decision

Kansas. In 15 minutes.
Let them put that on their posters.

I don’t want him to die any time soon. I want him to sit in an extremely unpleasant place until he decides to squeal on his co-conspirators. Not that he’ll get off or anything, but maybe they’ll let him out of general population, or into it, whichever is less terrible to him.

Tim McVeigh didn’t squeal because he thought he was such a tough guy, and he didn’t have long to wait before he was silenced forever. I’ll bet he’d have squealed by now if he’d still been alive.

life in a box without companionship is appropriate for roeder.

the guilty conscience never rests.

btdt.

peas!

Like your style.

The Death Penalty is just not a deterrent to crimes. Lives in America is of little value to most people, however only a few have the nuts to pull the trigger.

That’s why so many Americans are so willing to send people they don’t know to die in the great sandbox/rock quarry.

For Roeder to be found GUILTY (did we really a trial for that?) when its was possible the jury being where the trial was could have found some crazy pro lifers to put on the jury and deadlocked the trial, this was the proper outcome.

I hope he gets LIFE and yes no martyrs needed and please Homeland Security the behemoth it is should focus more on Domestic Terrorism (ie: White Power, Abortion Fanatics, etc).