I remember the President closing his State of the Union address with the phrase “I won’t quit.” I replied, “So don’t.”
On at least one level, he is quitting, or at least relenting:
The White House ordered the Justice Department Thursday night to consider other places to try the 9/11 terror suspects after a wave of opposition to holding the trial in lower Manhattan.
The dramatic turnabout came hours after Mayor Bloomberg said he would “prefer that they did it elsewhere” and then spoke to Attorney General Eric Holder.
“It would be an inconvenience at the least, and probably that’s too mild a word for people that live in the neighborhood and businesses in the neighborhood,” Bloomberg told reporters.
“There are places that would be less expensive for the taxpayers and less disruptive for New York City.”
The financial impact is a somewhat legitimate argument, but it’s not usually taken into account when determining where to site a criminal trial. New York happens to be the scene of the crime. There were two others, at the Pentagon and in Shanksville, PA, and so you could presumably hold the trial at or near one of those locations. But there’s an opportunity, says Jeralyn Merritt, to move it virtually anywhere, because the offenses of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and the others began outside the country.
Since the offenses were begun outside the U.S. and the defendants have not been arrested or brought before a U.S. court, is venue proper in whatever district the U.S. flies them to and officially arrests them in? Or should it be in the District of Colombia?
Seems to me the charges should be brought in one of the districts where the offense — or at least an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy — was committed. That’s probably a lot of districts, giving the Government pretty free reign.
9/11 plotters were located in multiple locations throughout the country.
It’s not exactly a sign of strength that Bloomberg’s objections were enough to disrupt plans that DoJ had for months. Needless to say, the newly forthright post-SOTU Presidency isn’t off to such a bold start.
UPDATE: The White House is pushing back on the multiple news reports, saying they were just putting in place contingency plans. Justice Department officials denied there was an order to move the trial, though they are “considering other sites” because of the expense.
Incidentally, nowhere in any of these articles does it say that the White House is ordering a change in the type of trial, from a criminal trial to a military commission, for example. This is just about the venue. It’s annoying that they’d shift course on NYC, but moving it to a military commission would be a true capitulation. This is quite a bit less than that.



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Why do the Democrats always cave in to pressure. Do they stand for nothing? Have they no principles? SICK OF IT.
Let’s just re-elect the Republicans who brought about the great recession, spend like drunken sailors, ram everything they want through Congress that they want and simply turn the country over to the Uber and Large Corporate class.
And then just maybe after the destruction of the middle class a political party will rise and fight for democratic principles.
Wow – Obama sure knows how to fight for his principles. Has Palin’s Twitter account become a fourth branch of government?
Back a month and a half ago there was a Saturday “rally” in front of that courthouse. It was purportedly put on by Capt. Burlingame’s sister (sister of the pilot of the Pentagon plane, if that’s what really hit it…). Big fancy stage, HUGE sound system, TV boom camera to fly over the crowd, even a frickin JUMBOTRON screen on the side. Dressing room trucks, yadda yadda yadda. All the majors had a satellite uplink truck, and of course Fox was right up front. All in place to show the world how angry “patriotic Americans” were that Holder would presume to do such a stupid thing.
One problem though, no angry crowd… Probably 100 people max, and they were all under their umbrellas because of the rain.
All that preparation turned out to be useless.
Folks, I watched from across the way, not to participate. The 9/11 Truth movement can get thousands to Lower Manhattan for a rally as has been proven several times.
I don’t think anyone could have predicted that that the SOTU address would be comprised of hollow rhetoric…
Well, at least somebody in the White House realizes that they’d look like total frickin’ wimps if they bowed to a carpetbagger-financing billionaire who takes his marching orders from non-New-Yorkers like Crazy Pete Hoekstra.
And the easiest way for Holder to show he is an independent AG is to refuse to move the trial.
Has Palin’s Twitter account become a fourth branch of government?
Actually, it’s the fifth branch. The fourth is Palin’s Facebook account.
Yeah, that’ll happen…
Wait for the military commission capitulation in 5…4… 3… 2…
And then moments later the DOJ will explain why that’s not a capitulaton either… something about the cost, yeah, yeah, that’s the ticket… it’s costs a lot. No one capitulating here; nothing to see, move along now.
Color me totally unsuprised; just waiting for this particular shoe to drop. Conservatards whine and Rahmbama wrings his collective hands and rushes around figuring out how EXACTLY to please them. Yeah, yeah: distracting kabuki show, but I’m still annoyed. What else is new?
Dumb & dumber. But thanks for the giggles re the Queen of Babble-On’s twitter & facebook accounts. True, dat!
lol!
When I heard this story this morning I thought, great leadership skills and conviction there prez. Way to piss down your leg at the slightest provocation.
So New Yorkers would be inconvenienced. Well, boo damn hoo. I’m inconvienced nearly every damn time I leave the house. That’s the way life is.
9/11 plotters were located in multiple locations throughout the White House.
Now, now, no need to disparage leg-pissers. Vultures do it in mid-flight to benefit from convection cooling. Think of the president as a vulture perched atop the carcass of our late republic.
‘Backbone’ has been removed from Safire’s Political Dictionary. replaced with Politcal Expediency. Playing Taps.
David Dayen has an even fresher cross-post up: Scott Roeder Found Guilty Of First-Degree Murder
When I was in NYC in November, people I know thought it was fine to have the trial there. Of course that is the people I know, who live downtown.
This could be another Rahm trial balloon. It is more evidence of the disarray in the White House when they don’t seem to be able to make a decision on anything and stick to it. More evidence that Obama and the Democrats are failing at basic governance.
I guess when we all voted for the Anti-Bush, that’s what we got. Bush was an idiot with backbone. Obama is a smart guy with no backbone.
Thanks for the laugh. I needed that.
You could be a writer for The Daily Show, which incidentally was extra hilarious last night. I actually had tears rolling down my face from laughing so hard. And I’ve pretty much lost my sense of humor when it comes to the destruction of our country.
As a New Yorker, i’ll say that the Federal office/court area of downtown has increasingly become a wasteland since the security state went batty. Between the Feds and NYPD ( barriers and checkpoints) and the destruction and construction over at the WTC site, downtown is a shadow of its former vibrant self. If the Feds could pull off a trial without closing down all the streets and bridges (Brooklyn Bridge is right there for instance) then great. The trial is fine, but the security theater that will be driven by Feds insensitive to local concerns will be a real burden.
You say “boo hoo” but this part of town had been fighting to restore some normalcy (which doesn’t include he whole WTC memorial bs that the rest of the country keeps demanding).
Wow, thanks for the compliment.
I hope you will always find time to laugh.
Appeasement does not work. Triangulation and centrist means that no one is satisfied. It does not work.
Sneaking away and buggering off…….the Obama legacy.
Death and destruction are part of our way of life. The entire country and world have been fighting to restore some normalcy. Sadly to no avail.
I’m sorry it happened but it’s time to move on. I don’t give a rat’s ass about a memorial. The only thing I have demanded is the criminal element in the White House that engineered this and the aftermath be brought to justice.
I’d like to see the trial moved to Gitmo.
Is there anything that terrorizes the Obama administration more than Republican criticism?
If New Yorkers can find a way to meld together places like Brooklyn, Harlem, the Bronx, Queens, Staten Island and Manhattan, they can sort out how to try a few alleged terrorists. NYC has tried organized crime figures who kill for a living, as well as high-end “financiers” who steal billions for a living. The only thing that was too much for them was the fear oozing out of the White House, put there by Joe Lieberputz and his legion of friendly, old-time, old-values, “centrist” Republicans.
Hate to say it but there seems to me to be something more diabolical at work here. I’m thinking more and more that this, as well as Feinsteins letter (scary), is a setup to another false flag incident. I hope that I am wrong. I just hope Obama is not involved, the Republican that he has become.
This does not smell good to me.
It doesn’t matter where the trial is, as long as legal due process and justice is involved. Security, morality and justice is the only way to smoke out the bad stuff no matter who is behind it.
Potential “disruption” and loss of business revenue are their facial concerns? Puhleeze. The Republican National Convention caused more of both. Presidential motorcades stop traffic up and down Manhattan for hours. Yes, these trials would go on for weeks or a few months, unlike my examples. But the stated reasons are not persuasive; more tangible is the White House fear of uncontrolled publicity, Republican criticism, and too visible a process.
I assume, also, that if the venue changes, the responsibility for the case shifts to a new USA. Or is this USA and his team siphoned off and dedicated to these trials, leaving his office’s work to others, such that he can leave the district and work just as well from rural Pennsylvania or DC.
Rahm Emanuel being the mini-Rove that he is, I wonder if changing the venue has more to do with the appellate circuit these trials would go to or the likelihood of capital punishment being the order of the day.
I think the criticism that Obama is “caving in” is overly critical.I can understand the massive cost to the city, estimated at a billion dollars, and the incredible inconvenience to have the trial there. This trial can easily be handled at a military base with a federal judge.
I could give a shit where they hold this trial – As long as it’s a criminal court not a military tribunal.
These al Quida terrorists are nothing more than baby killing sociopaths and thugs. We should never, ever have raised them to the status of legit military soldiers – That’s an insult to men and women all around the world and throughout history who have ever worn a uniform to dutifully protect and serve their country.
It would in fact be a whole lot cheaper, logistically expedient on a daily basis and very, very secure for all parties involved if KSM’s civil trial was held on a military installation somewhere in or around NYC(how could the rethugs possibly piss and moan about the federal dollars it would save – but I’m sure they would figure out a way).
As for Obama and/or the dems “caving again” that’s the same partisan bull shit rhetoric that Obama dumped on the rethugs about during his SOTU address. Besides, if the trial is held on a military installtion it could probably start next week. The sooner we try and convict KSM the sooner we can see justice served. It’s taken to longas it is…
I’m with you on this one rodram – see my post for confirmation…
Gotta say that the thought of Baghdad barriers going up in lower Manhattan, or any U.S. city, is enough to make me wonder whether something different couldn’t be done. Such could include 1) a more isolated venue, e.g. some military base or Park Service facility, of which there are some very close to the city, or one of the city islands that has usable but currently underused structures, that could be secured without making ordinary American folk and our guests feel like we are living under occupation, or 2) less of the probably unnecessary extra security theater, which just might be the most sensible.
This was a Daily News story…WH allegedly pushed back today and said not true. Has anyone verified that the WH wants the trial moved? Somehow I just don’t buy it.
It’s imperative that these trials be held by a regularly constituted civilian court in the usual way that every other alleged criminal is tried, wherever that court ordinarily sits, be it lower Manhattan, downtown Cleveland or Chicago or Pittsburgh, or the federal courthouse in DC. It’s not necessary, indeed, it’s harmful to hold these on a military base.
“New York happens to be the scene of the crime. There were two others, at the Pentagon and in Shanksville, PA, and so you could presumably hold the trial at or near one of those locations.”
Actually that is a reason to not hold the trial at the NY Federal Court building, which is a few blocks from where the Twin Towers were. I think it would be hard to find an impartial jury in any part of the country, but I think holding the trial right next to ground zero would make that impossible and if any case screams for a change of venue, it would be this case. The DC Snipers were for instance tried 100 miles away and the DC Snipers are far lower profile than KSM. Frankly everything coming out of the administration sounded like they were trying to prejudice any potential jury and that they picked a location that would lend itself most to having a prejudiced jury. I’d expect KSM’s lawyers to immediately move for a change of venue and a judge to grant it – if the judge didn’t grant a change of venue, I’d be very suspicious – so I think the trial would be moved anyway and changing the venue under the cover of politics actually looks better politically than having the judge declare how prejudicial the location is and ruling against the prosecution.
sheez, what a bunch of myopic whiners. fickle fickle fickle.
look, bloomberg just happened to notice that the security for the trial was going to disrupt a huge portion of the city and most importantly – of course, for bloomberg – the commerce.
now, i’m as ok with the trials there as not, in principle. but we have to be practical, and – especially now that the gop has made this such a potential circus – there is likely a better place to do this that will not be so disruptive to real movements and operations of so many people.
changing venues is not that unusual; get real.