The WaPo has some unnamed sources saying that Lower Manhattan will no longer be the site of the Khalid Sheikh Mohammed trial:
The Obama administration has all but abandoned its plan to put Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the self-proclaimed mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, on trial in Lower Manhattan, according to administration officials.
A senior administration official said no decision has been formalized, but the Justice Department is already considering other venues. Said another official close to the discussions: “New York is out.”
The reversal would mark the latest setback for an administration that has been buffeted at every turn as it seeks to close the military detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Its options for closing the prison had already been dwindling, and without the backdrop of Ground Zero for a trial, the administration would lose some of the rich symbolism associated with its attempt to forge a new approach to handling high-profile al-Qaeda detainees.
The NYT concurs.
I know what I wrote yesterday, but I’ve been reconsidering this, in fact I did in the update. If this is just a change of venue, I’m cool with it. In fact, given the impossibility of getting a jury seated for the crimes of 9/11 in Manhattan, there was likely to be a change of venue anyway. Better to do it now than hand defense lawyers a likely victory later. If this is a prelude to changing the nature of the trial, and to move it back into the military commission process, it’s a problem. But the indications are that’s not the case right now.
Republicans and a number of Democrats in Congress have demanded that the detainees be tried in a military commission at Guantanamo Bay, arguing that they are enemy combatants in a war with al-Qaeda and the Taliban, not criminals deserving of the protections of civilian court.
But the decision to bring Mohammed and his cohorts onto U.S. soil for a civilian trial is a linchpin of Holder’s tenure, and an administration official said the Justice Department would not back down on the central principle of trying the men in federal court and inside the United States.
That commitment was welcomed by proponents of using criminal courts to try terrorist suspects.
“As long as these trials occur in federal criminal courts with proper due-process protections, the actual venue doesn’t matter very much,” said Anthony D. Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union. “All of our federal courts are equipped and able to handle such cases. That’s where they belong, and that’s where they should stay.”
I do have a couple other points on this:
1) I think that those arguing against Lower Manhattan are overreacting about the amount of security necessary to host the trial. We’ve been hearing about hundreds of checkpoints and effectively bringing the lower corner of the island to a standstill. I’m not certain that’s warranted. Joe Sestak, appearing on Hardball yesterday, analogized to the White House, which we’re “able to keep safe” without a flotilla of checkpoints around the perimeter for miles on end. It seemed like overkill to me, though the general point of holding a trial which would at least have some security cost in a densely populated area may hold. Ramzi Youssef and other terrorists have been tried in Lower Manhattan, and I don’t remember this hysteria about checkpoints.
2) I know a billion dollars to Mike Bloomberg is like an extra sandwich at the Carnegie Deli, but in exchange for saving his city from a trial with that price tag, he really should offer full-throated support to holding a criminal trial. His sinking of the NYC venue will be misconstrued as a victory for those who think we should upend the criminal justice system that has served us well for two centuries and confine trials like this to the flawed military commission process. The least Bloomberg could do is help to minimize the damage.
For more on how the New York City terror trials went up in smoke, read this comprehensive piece from ProPublica.



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*sigh*
as long as it is not portrayed as a big retreat by the administration.
venue — if it is about the high cost and disruption to lower Manhattan –is not as important as a trial in federal court.
Do it at West Point.
I like that one.
I don’t really care where they do it, just so they stick with the decision to have a criminal trial.
“His sinking of the NYC venue will be misconstrued as a victory for those who think we should upend the criminal justice system that has served us well for two centuries and confine trials like this to the flawed military commission process.”
I don’t know of any high powered Zionists who have spoken out against the upending our criminal justice system.
Can anybody name one?
Mukasey, Chertoff, Lieberman, etc.
Bloomberg flew his private jet to Southern Israel to watch the Gaza Cast Lead fireworks with the other cheering Israelis.
I’ll second that.
FEAR RULES!!!!!
I am astounded by the cowardice of New York City. Supposedly tough, in your face, patriotic New York City. So guess the whole tuff guys…Guido thugs…press and “reality” tv stuff…..when it comes down to it…cowards.
Not at all surprised that Obama is a wuss…but I thought Eric Holder had some moxie. Guess not. What a bunch of pussies. I hope the nations future efforts in the world particularly the struggle on terror is not left up to a bunch of New Yorkers and the bullshit spineless Obama administration.
Cowards.
I’m with you ratfood – I don’t give a shit where they hold the trial just so long that it is a civil trial, not a military tribunal.
And isn’t that Bloomburg a real numb nuts. The feds would spring for the cost of extra security, not NYC. And this bozo is bleating and braying that New Yorkers “MIGHT be in danger”. Now that’s an insult to every New Yorker I ever knew – They have balls the size of grapefruits but their own mayor is calling them a bunch of pee-pants! I can here them now – “Fuck You Bloomie, I ain’t no pussy”…
I totally understand it from a fiscal perspective. Bloomberg has already dropped a lot of programs for the poor, like dental clinics for poor children.
I just wish they had made the decision to hold it elsewhere before announcing it would be held in Lower Manhattan.
As mentioned in the post the trial of the first bombing of the World Trade Center was held in New York. I do not see why the trial for the second bombing of the WTC could not be held there as well. I agree that the price tag for security was way overblown. It will be an expensive trial no matter where it is held. The influence of the real estate lobby though to have the trial moved I found to be more evidence of how corporatized even these types of decisions have become.
Wow, I did not realize New Yorkers had balls the size of grapefruits. The women too? Geez, like the elevators wouldn’t be overcrowded anyway…
Go back to the ClusterFox comments section dude. They’ll love your “Obama is a commie pinko pussy born in Kenya” talk over there.
Besides, you’ve got your facts reversed like a true teabagger – The Obama adminsitration wanted the trial of KSM in NYC and it’s Bloomburg and the other rethulicant bed wetters that got their nickers in a knot over it…
It’s beginning to look like one could frighten Obama with a balloon on a stick.
Sorry about that. Let me correct things – And the ladies have ovaries the size of hand grenades. Is that better?
I’m only joking folks – don’t go blowing a gasket. But if you must, have at it, I’m really thick skinned…
Sounds about right. Profit concerns of Bloomberg friends could have tilted opinion. I still won’t be surprised if they move it to a location that inhibits press coverage, like a military base.
Bloomie just might have a bit more credibility on things like costs if he hadn’t just shoveled a bunch of his campaign staff into $100k per jobs on the city payroll.
You’re not the only one going over the top here.
Not knowing you, I don’t know what your agenda is. Some people come to vent or rant, or to tell all us crazie (missplelling intentional) how it really is.
This used to be a place where thoughtful discussion could happen. And, it still happens, sometimes.
It’s one thing to care about others blowing a gasket, that’s an honorable thing to want. But, it’s always good to re-read your comment to make sure it’s what you really mean before you hit Submit.
I appreciate your voice. Just wanted to give you some feedback.
That’s really uncalled for. As a former Manhattan resident, I can attest that things can barely move in Lower Manhattan as it is. The trial and its ramifications would bring the whole area to a standstill, possibly for years, and would in itself be a victory for the terrorists.
The symbolism is worth less than the pragmatism in this case. What’s important is that the bastard is in our control, and will be tried in a place that makes sense for us.
One thing I don’t understand is why the move is needed. NPR story today was talking about all the “blowback” (some word like that), without describing at all what that blowback was.
Who is complaining about NYC as a venue?
who cares
You always mostly make me smile. Thanks, Raven.
my pleasure, just a drive by!
Other considerations…
Thinking back on the Timothy McVeigh trial, held in Denver after change of venue from OK City, the court agreed after petition and appeal that all the families who lost members in the OK Bombing had rights to attend the trial, and accomodations were made for a few to be at each court session, but for closed circuit TV to be available at several sites for Family and some authorized Press.
In the case of KSM, we have at least 3000 families that might claim such rights to attend the trial. Some in DC, Most in and around NYC. And then the families of those on the four planes, who would be from all over the country.
Thinking about security — I suspect the operative lesson from the Christmas Day attempt to bomb and bring down the NW Flight has to do with the difficulty of identifying potential bombers/terrorists. While it hasn’t happened yet, and I am not sure if they have deflected a plot to do so, I would imagine they would be worried about lone suicide bombers who might attack something on the fringe of a KSM trial — such as a line of family members waiting to go through security so as to sit in the courtroom or in a closed circuit TV room. How do you provide for the rights of victims families to attend, or watch, and at the same time provide strong security against stuff that has happened in lots of places? How do you provide for a huge International Press Corps that is likely to show up and demand access to the trial? How do you do this, given security requirements?
We knew this was coming when the establishment started circling the wagons this week. Maybe someone figured out they got nothin’ without introducing all the torture. Much easier to control the info in a military courtroom.
Besides, KSM is probably such a physical wreck from all the torture, he most likely isn’t capable of a coherent sentence. Platfrom for propaganda, my ass. His brain is jello.
As far as any possible security issues in NYC, I take that as a goddamn outrage. We’ve spent how many hundreds of billions to create our police state? And how many new departments exist with numerous layers of security and surveillance blanketing the US, and they have the nerve to say they might not be able to meet the security challenge of a trial held in a US courtroom? Oh, man. Are they kidding me?
The only reason that makes sense for NY is the cost. On the other hand, if they thought the trial would serve the establishment, the price tag wouldn’t even be a consideration. I think this is about having more control of any damning disclosures against the CIA and the Bush administration. Obama prefers looking ahead, and a public trial might force Holder into areas Obama prefers to protect.
well hey! ah think we ourter have dat der trial thingy in Oklahoma, at one of the big meetin rooms at that Oral Roberts unibercity. the only problem ah’d see wit dat would be convincing 12 of them peeple there to come out from under there beds hiding from terrorists and travel from ther trailer to the korthouse to acturally have a trial. ah mean it not lack we becum like them 1938 nazi’s er sumptin. raight? RIGHT?
I’m really so fucking tired of the Obama administration being so easily bullied on stupid issues.
Here’s a serious question for these chickenshits. Does anybody really think that there are people out there who could carry out a terrorist attack on NYC, but now will decide not to, solely because the trial is not there?