I’m sure it wouldn’t be hard to find …

“In a statement _______, McCain said “The rulers of iran Iraq have no desire to meet their international responsibilities, and every desire to use the tools of violence and repression at their disposal to crush the peaceful aspirations of Iran’s Iraq’s citizens.” Lieberman added on MSNBC ______ that “I would say that the opposition to this fanatical government, regime in Tehran Baghdad is not going to go away… It’s just a matter of time until the people triumph over this government that does not really represent them.”

“It’s just a matter of time until the people triumph over this government that does not really represent them.” So true, maybe st. john, LIEberman, and obamarahma will all be out by 2012. The next group may not represent us, but perhaps it will make it possible to get real representation.

I doubt if anyone in Iran or elsewhere gives much credence to proposals submitted by a losing presidential candidate or his whiny sanctimonious butt-gerbil.

Gee, John McCain, maybe the US should just invade Iran like Sarah Palin sez instead of letting things take their natural course. The stupidity of GOPers is obviously of unfathomable depths – no wonder Bush was considered brilliant next to these bozos. Anybody else as glad as I am that McCain wasn’t elected Preznit?

To the casual observer the situation in Iran looks like the beginning of another revolution against an authoritarian regime, not much different than the one against the Shah 30 years ago. All we have to do is continue to apply the economic pressure and the people of Iran will do the rest. If the US had a competent CIA, they would be supplying covert economic and logistical support to the dissidents, but I think they are too busy perfecting their torture techniques to do anything which might be in the US interest.

Ain’t nothin’ that can’t be solved with a couple hundred thousand pound bombs

[Mod Note: Rhetorically speaking of course?]

Hundreds of thousands dead and injured in Iraq, millions displaced and the warmongers are on their way to Iran with no “hard evidence”

Diane Rehm, Rachel Maddow, Chris Matthews, Neil Conan, Scott Simon David Gregory, Terri Gross etc etc have for years now allowed unsubstantiated claims about an Iranian nuclear weapons program. Not once have I heard one of these talking heads challenge that unsubstantiated claim not once. They could have over the last six years at least demanded that “alleged” be put in front. But no they will have played their role in allowing the stage to be set for a pre-emptive strike on Iran.

Israel and the Israeli lobby who h ramped up the inflammatory rhetoric about Iran immediately after the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq

This has been at the “Take Action” section of Aipac’s website for years now
Take Action

* Pass Tougher Iran Sanctions
* Support Security Aid for Israel
* Back Divestment from Iran
http://www.aipac.org/

The hundreds of thousands dead and injured in Iraq, Afghanistan are just a bump to go over for the warmongers on their way to securing the realm

And it’s unclear whether the effect of these sanctions will help reformers or swing the public behind the ruling regime in a nationalist fervor

I heard an interview with Robert Baer just yesterday afternoon in which he articulated in detail just how insane getting bellicose with Iran could turn out to be. So far, we’re not hearing the nutty “bomb Iran” crap from the adults in the room, but the current escalation in rhetoric (from all sides) is a bit worrying to me. Everyone needs to just step back, take a deep breath and start listening to the experts on the region. (And by “experts” I do not mean neocons.)

No one in our media ever comments on how Israel treats the Palestians protesters. No one in our media comments on how the U.S. military has arrested journalists in Iraq who were covering the conflict and held them for over a year without charge and then released them. No one in our media comments on how Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan (neither of which hold democratic elections) constantly arrest opposition leaders and beat protesters. Our government and this country is in big trouble. We condone violence, abuse and torture when it suits our need, yet we comdemn it when it doesn’t. The hypocrisy and double standard will be this countrys downfall.

McCain and Lieberman Beavis and Butthead are the last people I want to listen to on Iran policy.

Here’s Beavis singing “Bomb Iran” to our troops back in 2007.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg

I can honesty see them sitting on the couch together watching the bomb camera footage on CNN. Fire Fire! Cool, heh he

However, they did make 1 valid comment:
“It’s just a matter of time until the people triumph over this government that does not really represent them.”

Oh the irony.

Yesiree, that Iranian revolution worked out really well for the U.S.

And the CIA is up to all sorts of shit in Iran. Supporting the opposition, which is probably one of their programs, just deligitimizes the opposition.

I use antiwar.com to keep up on the Iranian nuclear situation. Here’s a recent article. Here’s another on how sancitons just hurt ordinary Iranians & drive them more into the hands of their leaders.

Just who the hell does the US and especially these two fools think they are to lecture any country about peaceful co-existence.

Here you have a deformed McCain rattle on about governments respecting the peaceful will of it’s people while he had no qualms about the US raining down bombs and killing 1 million innocent people in Iraq for no reason whatsover, while he also took direct part in bombing Viet Namm again in for reason while the US killed roughly 2 million inocent Viet Namese. We are supposed to listen to this piece of shit lecture other countries about respecting the rights of its people?

Or to listen to this fanatical Jew Lieberman prattle on about governments respecting the rights of people while Israel usurps 92% of what was formerly Palestine and routinely kills and tortures Palestinians and invades other neighboring countries at will with the aid and comfort of the US. We are supposed to listen to this asshole preach to us about the sovereign rights of people?

Iran can do what it damn well pleases as long as it abides by the provisions of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty to which it is a signatory, while Israel is not and the US withdrew from. The US has no business interfering with the sovereign rights of any country period. And while the US and Israel repeatedly threaten Iran with armed aggression in contravention of the UN and Geneva accords against countries instigating crimes against the peace, Iran has threatened nobody with any such aggression.

In fact in the face of such threats Iran would be remiss for not arming itself to the teeth knowing full well the past history of the US and Israel being only to happy to attack and kill weaker nations without any pretext whatsoever.

I think that’s the whole point. Iran’s middle class is vast and well educated. Without the Axis of Evil speech and everything after, they might have already overthrown their government by now.

Just like with Iraq, the sanctions will make the wealthier, most educated Iranians leave the country, the middle class will be driven into poverty. Education will suffer, and the populace will rally around the leader they would otherwise be working to overthrow.

If 500,000 kids die, Hillary Clinton will say the price has been worth it.

Then when we walk into a crippled society in a few years, we can install the puppet of “our” choice.

Perhaps the blogs should take up a collection, and deliver some cans of white paint to Washington, and tell them to take it to Iran. Once their people are painted the proper color, there would be no need to keep this up.

Or like McCain sang during the campaign: BOMB, BOMB, BOMB; BOMB BOMB, IRAN…

Fuhged McMaverick. I want to know wxactly what has Lieberhore provided to the Dems as far as getting his BFFs Graham,Collins and McMaverick to the Dems on any issues? This mofo needs to go today.

Well according to your line of thought when Bush usurped the Presidency to the dismay of many in this country then the secret service of Iran out of respect for the bereived American citizenry should have sent its spies to wreak havoc with wall street.

Oops, maybe that was the rationale for the Mujahadeen of Afghnaitan to land 2 airliners on the World Trade Center Towers. Better be careful in tritely advocating for our spooks to go around the world meddling in other people’s affairs.

If there is one lesson that needs hammering home it’s that the US has no purchase on good intentions and love of freedom and world peace. The US is as much an agent for war and death as any other world power before it. There is nothing innately benign behind the design of this government and there never has been.

Obama actually did something good today by placing sanctions just on businesses owned by former Republican guards, who are the Iranian mafia. This disables some of the bad guys and empowers civilians. Good move.

I have no problem with destabilizing a potential future nuclear power ruled by an authoritarian religious cult with an overt hostility to modern civilization. If there is a large consensus of people in that country who also oppose their government, it makes sense to assist them covertly. This is different from many past US actions that helped remove popular governments that happened to oppose US policies. That is the difference in this case – the Iranian government is run by crazy people who are opposed by their own citizens and pose a threat to every other country on earth. If either of those conditions change, there is no justification for interference.

As for the other comment about the Iranian Revolution not working out so well for the US, my answer is, so what? I merely pointed out that the Iranian people were overturning an authoritarian regime they disliked. It turned out fine as far as the Iranians were concerned – they got the religious crazies they wanted. Now the Iranian people are fed up with the religious crazies and want them out. Great, that aligns with the interests of the rest of the world, who also would be pleased to see the religious crazies gone. What comes after that is up to the Iranian people, not the US.

you know about Flynt Leverett’s new site “The Race for Iran”

My favorite folks to read who seem to know more than anyone else about Iran
http://www.raceforiran.com/
CHINA MOVES STRATEGICALLY WHILE THE U.S. REMAINS STUCK ON IRAN

Thanks for those links. Antiwar.com great site

Nicely put.

To paraphase Allen Ginsburg, “America, go fuck yourself with your smart bomb(s), I don’t feel so well today….”

“In a statement _______, McCain said “The rulers of Iran Iraq Israel have no desire to meet their international responsibilities, and every desire to use the tools of violence and repression at their disposal to crush the peaceful aspirations of Iran’s Iraq’s Israel’s citizens.” Lieberman added on MSNBC ______ that “I would say that the opposition to this fanatical government, regime in Tehran Baghdad is not going to go away… It’s just a matter of time until the people triumph over this government that does not really represent them.”

Iran has threatened nobody with any such aggression.

Ahmadinejad did make a (badly interpreted) statement about Israel which many have interpreted as a clear intent to do violence. But, words are words and until Iran does something more than selling tubes to Gazan Palestinians we really should do no more than to warn them.

I think what irks a lot of us is that Ahmadinejad is so much like Dubya. He’s got that same, ‘bring it on’ smirk and attitude.

but that gerbil has a intense personal hatred for the nation of iran.

and i’m not talking about disliking the government or the religion. i’m saying the hates the race(s) and heritage of the people that live there

he will try his hardest to drag us into another ME war

i sort of agree with you, but from a different vantage point

i can tell you that as much as the majority of iranians want good relations with the west including the usa, ……
the number one most important/critical requirement for the iranians living in iran and fighting for their freedom is keeping foreign influence out of their country

without getting in depth into their history, iranian political wisdom has grown in the last few decades. where as iranians used to be angry at the world for repeatedly invading their country or corrupting their governments or secretly infiltrating their government….. what they are mostly now is angry at them selves for letting it happen to them.

they now accept the blame and realize that they let foreigners corrupt them. if you know any young iranians that grew up there, you will see that they are very determined to not let any foreing influence into their country

of course, what we hear mostly in the usa is the voice of ex-patriots. many expatriots are former monarchy allies or their children that grew up outside of iran. so their voices are loud, but their influence in iran is limited and their viewpoint very bias

related to this is a theory i have that one of the reasons that last year’s protests in the summer didn’t topple the government is that too many foreigners and ex-patriots tried to get involved.

ex-patriots were all over western tv. what really finished off the excitement for a new iran was when the republicans (beholden to oil companies and military companies and hoping for war) were all of a sudden making comments in support of protesters. i think the protesters started to question their movement. in other words they though “”if so many of our enemies and traitors and monarchists and people who wanted to bomb us are all of a sudden supporting the movement, maybe this movement is not what we think it is”"

of course the other problem that was the final nail in the coffin was rafsanjani. he is well known in iran as one of the most corrupt politicians in the entire history of the nation. iranians have more respect for the former monarch than this guy. he has swindled the national treasury of iran out of billions and billions of dollars that he has hidden in banks all over the world for his personal wealth. these are of course international and european banks. he has personally lived a life that is contrary to all the religious rules he claims he believes in.

so when he started speaking out, the movement fizzled. people who remembered him (not very difficult) were not going to go out on the streets to risk their lives, get shot, get arrested, risk the lives of their family, just to put that criminal back in power.

so, that is my excessively long comment to your comment.

non iranians need to just chill out and let them take care of themselves. because of their (and our) unfortunate history they are ultra sensitive to foreign involvement or presence in their country.

i think economic pressure is ok, but suggesting that a good clandestine operation would be useful is really just wishing for failure of the revolution and a new harder lined reprisal by the religious government.

if somehow the revolution occurs and somehow it is found out that the usa covertly helped, it will turn the opinions of iranian people against the usa

right now, the people want better relations with the west and with the usa. but if iranians sense another corruption of their government coming, then they will turn against the west and the usa and begin a long period of antagonism against the west

right now their government is nutty. but the people are not. another american corruption of their government could turn their cultural attitude against the usa and believe me that we dont’ need that.

that doesn’t help us at all

toppling the crazies in their government is only a matter of time. i don’t know if it is 2 months or 2 years or 6 years, but it is coming. just let them do it on their own and lets keep our hands clean.

i don’t want our president having to go apologize to them again in 50 years like we just did.

absolutely right

Since you seem to be a rabid anti Islamist (and therefore a fanatic and crazy yourself) what is your religion?

I ask only because you seem stuck on phrases like “religious cult” and “religious crazies” to slur the religious rulers of Iran. You must be claiming that Islam is a crazy religion in comparison with your own, well please spell out for all how your religion is so much superior and more sane than Islam.

And since Iran poses such a threat to all the world perhaps you can explain to everyone how many people have been killed by the US and Israel on their forrays into other people’s country and compare that to the number of people Iran has killed by invading other people’s land.

Perhaps your definition of threat to the entire world is absolute bullshit.