Hhahahahahah!!!
Baucus and Dodd = forget the PO.

Chrissy Dodd is on the look out for gainful employment as a ‘non-lobbyist’ à la Tom Daschle. He’s a weasel, but a very clever one. He’ll have a hundred and one schemes ready to kill the PO if it is ever even discussed.

rockefeller is strong for the PO but prolly cant out muscle dodd baucus, though dodd loses allot of gas cause he is a lame duck.

I would love to have a link to the Pfeiffer pretzel: we are for the PO but just not FOR it.

Reid made his announcement at the same time as he was hanging out with Obama. This is a Good Cop/ Bad Cop Routine, they’re on the exact same page. Either the Republicans miraculously sign on at the summit, or there will be a public option.

Even if you accepted the idea that Obama is secretly for the PO (you’d have to be deluded to think that but still) that would mean that he was not interested enough to spend political capital on whipping votes and/or he senses that he is too weak as a leader to whip successfully.

Wish you were right mikesong but this has been going on since October
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/04/obama-passes-the-public-option-hot-potato/

No, a better explanation would be that he already has the votes and the plan in motion and has no need to discuss it in a public summit with Republicans who will just say no to everything anyway.

All that proves is that there have been months of FDL’s “interesting”, shall we say, slant on covering Obama.

the President didn’t include a public option in his proposal, but he supports it.

No one could have predicted the President’s feelings on the matter./s

Actually, the best place for real information about the Health Care Sell Out is at FDL. Time and time again, Rahm Emanuel made deals to sell out the voters. We must assume he is doing what the President wants. Time and time again, we have been insulted and left out of the process. That is fine, it means we are free to fight for what the people want, SINGLE PAYER! LET OUR KRITTERS VOTE!

more Kabuki theater — i am done watching

Shorter Gibb:

Sure we’d like a public option but we wouldn’t support one if it was offered.

Hot Potato!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBWQCHb95rg

Reid just announced the list of attendees for Thursday’s health summit.

The usual suspects.

“I think they’ve asked for a vote on the floor of the Senate, and that’s certainly up to those who manage those amendments and up to Leader Reid,” Gibbs said.

Nice tap-dancing. “Take it, Harry!”

Let’s not go insulting potatoes. More like a hot turd.

It’s not too late to collect some money to bribe a congressional printing office employee to insert some PO language into what ever bill they eventually decide to pass.

I hear they don’t read those bills anyway, and it’s also closer to the way things are done in DC.

And then there’s that thing about “… doing as the Romans do.”

I mean, it can’ turn out any worse than the time and money donated to Obama and the democrats, right?

Come to think of it, it’s also sort of related to the way that corporations became persons.

Nobody wants to actually be responsible for the demise of the popular measure, but everyone wants to be on its side.

The punch line of a really bad joke. What a waste.

Meanwhile, James Carville sent out another one of his hokey-sounding emails today (this one entitled “Bullpuckey”) telling Americans that they should contribute money to the DSCC because of the Supreme Court’s Citizens United decision.

Seriously.

Well, Mr. Carville, as someone who did make a financial contribution to the DSCC in 2009, I refuse to support anymore those failures who can’t pass real health care reform, including something as popular with the American people as the public option, despite having 59 members of the US Senate. Why should any of us believe that that gaggle of losers, weaklings and sellouts who call themselves Senate Democrats aren’t doing exactly what you say the Senate Republicans are doing: “licking their chops at the thought of limitless corporate benefactors.” Even if there are a few decent human beings among them, they’re ineffective and weak.

Yes, Carville says that I should send money to the DSCC because the Supreme Court’s Citizens United decision “is a big win for corporations [and] a big loss for the little guy with the little wallet.”

Really, James? Well wtf would the Senate Democrats do to help a little guy with a little wallet like me?

Well I, for one, think a spud could produce better legislation than what these asshats are doing. But I have an uncommon respect for root vegetables.

Here’s your chance mike.

Let it rip.

Hmmm. Looks like the R’s will allow a vote on the jobs bill…that’s uncharacteristic.

A big Bronx cheer to Eelhead & the DSCC. Whenever I get their stupid mailers, they go straight into the circular file. No more $$ from me (not that what I ever contributed amounted to that much, but still), and forget even filling out any stupid questionnaires. What’s the point? Fool me once & all that. Clearly Eelhead & the DSCC only holds voters & the base in the lowest of low contempt, looking down on us plebs from their high & mighty cushy, corporate sponsored positions. toss a few crumbs, why doncha.

BAH! A pox on all of them. Anyone who thinks BHO has “something up his sleeve” in terms of the PO is living in a fools paradise, and I have a bridge to nowhere to sell them. No offense, but how anyone can *believe* that BHO has the voter in mind at this stage of the game is beyond me. Rahmbama’s intentions and allegiance have been crystal clear for quite some time now, and it ain’t about you & me. Big Daddy WarBuck$ calls the shots. Money talks.

Thanks David.

You are disingenuous. You think the current bill is good, per your comments on thread below, but appear to be unwilling to expound on which parts of the bill you find to be “good.”

This “hot potato” meme is both false and destructive, as it supports the bigger VRWC/MSM-established “Dems in Disarray!” meme that gets trotted out anytime there is any public discussion of differing viewpoints.

Obama, Pelosi and Reid work closely together, they coordinate strategy on a continuing basis, they decide collectively who will push what legislative aspect when, and stay in contact personally or through staff multiple times each day. The idea that one of them is unilaterally tossing a “hot potato” at the other is plain silly.

On this specific matter, a public option, the obstruction comes 80% from Republicans and 20% from BlueDog/NewDems. It would be better strategy for the Left to keep focused on those who are obstructing rather than unfairly and inaccurately shifting blame to those who are in favor but lack the power to make it happen.

When did you first realize you had a flair for the comedic?

…this has been another edition of don’t believe your lyin’ eyes…

You are right, of course. If Democrats just had 61 votes instead of sixty…

Announcement was just made on The Ed Show that as of today Tim Johnson of SD and Debbie Stabenow of MI are now numbers 21 and 22 respectively on the Bennet letter to Harry Reid. Best news I’ve heard all day.

I’m giggling.

Obama and the majority of Democratic Senators can not serve both the private insurers and measures that threaten their profits like the PO and Meicare buy-in at the same time.

At this point it is beyond dispute that Obama is the worst kind of craven whore for the private for profit health insurers. So no time needs to be wasted wondering about his support for the PO, he does not. The only question is whther 51 Democratic Senators are free of the shackles of private insurers.

So why the uncertainty and mystery? Is the answer to this question somehow so difficult to attain? Just ask these inept and inertia sodden saps whether they will vote for the PO or a Medicare buy-in. What is the friggin hold up all about. Have Reid ask the Democrats whether they favor these measures , yes or no.

Mr. President: The buck stops here.
Stop being a weasel and tell us what you believe in.

I support what Harry Reid is doing here. Obama is pathetic. His refusal to lead is not only weak, it’s disgusting. Every time I see him on tv, Reid looks exhausted. He has battled this healthcare thing and done all the legwork in the legislature, and gotten nothing, zip, zero, NADA from the White House but a few limp hints here and there. The White house has not corralled votes, has not called Senators, has not come out and said “this is what we want dammit!” until this horrible proposal (which is just the Senate bill for cripes sake! They didn’t even write it!)
Reid is playing chicken with Obama- it’s about damn time- I’m on Reid’s side. It’s the President who should come out and say he WANTS A PUBLIC OPTION or not. What’s his problem? Since when is the Senate majority leader the initiator of legislation in the USA?

“Surtt February 22nd, 2010 at 3:47 pm 29
Mr. President: The buck stops here.
Stop being a weasel and tell us what you believe in.”

Exactly!!! Either Obama bites the bullet and takes a risk and LEADS THE NATION or he can watch his presidency dissolve. Frankly, I’m of the mind that if he refuses to stand up and do his job, he should resign. I knew Hillary would have been a better president, I knew it.

That news isn’t really all that great. That letter should have had the signatures of 51 Senate Democrats on it within 24 hours.

DDay wrote:

Nobody wants to actually be responsible for the demise of the popular measure, but everyone wants to be on its side.

I suppose the flip of that is that a few Senate Democrats want to get credit despite having done little-to-nothing as real health care reform was killed by the sellouts and their enablers.

Kabuki.

Of course, getting credit for saying they support something that they don’t have the courage to fight for as the Democratic Party ship sinks isn’t going to help any of them.

I agree that FDL, particularly David, is a great source of information about health care, that’s why I spend a lot of time here. However, I do think they take concerns and run with them, sometimes to the point of losing the forest for the trees. I don’t have a problem with that, because I think we need FDL to throw a shitfit over every possible sellout – it keeps the politicians accountable. But I’d encourage people to make FDL one of their many sources of information, not the only one.

I was out for a while. I just got back and responded to you on the other thread. Decent = subsidies, regulations, cutting waste. Good = National exchange. Great = Public Option.

When Reid made his move on Friday, he was hanging out with Obama in Nevada. They are moving in lock stop, don’t let a good cop/bad cop routine fool ya.

The list of attendees doesn’t even matter, it’s a red herring.

Nothing is going to come of the whole ordeal. Republicans will never vote for anything that comes from this.

the real fight comes when the Dems realize Reconciliation is all that’s left.

That the Republicans would say no is precisely the reason to discuss it in public so that they go on record against a popular reform that is subsequently passed – if you are right that they have the votes locked up for passing the PO. Why would you want to protect the Republicans by preventing footage that could be used against them in the midterms?

Oh boy do I want Obama to fail hard on this one. Can. not. wait. to. watch.

I agree with you. I think Obama is willing to take some heat on the public option right now, then once the public option passes in the Senate Reid will get the credit and have a great shot at keeping his seat.

All the Obama hate here is really weird.

And well deserved. The man is a complete liar and coward, nothing he does is in good faith, and obamabots are simply pitiful.

I’m going to enjoy this.

Ok. lol.

God bless.

Thank you.

That would be messy and unnecessarily risky. Everyone already knows all Republicans hate the public option.

:-) Glad to see it’s sunny where you are. I’m doing my best to keep it sunny around here.

Good to hear. I read dailykos, huffingtonpost, nytimes and they seem to be supporting at least passing the Senate bill rather than nothing. A Senate bill plus the fixes is even better and if they included the public option, that would be better yet.

That said, I think the Senate bill plus the fixes is a step in the right direction and good for America. I always have to preface by saying that I still think that a single-payer is the best way to go, but I understand the reality of American politics today.

I’m not really sure how this public option debate will play out. I hope that the public option at least gets a vote during the reconciliation process. I’m still calling my Senator and praying that we can win this victory, but if not, that’s politics and you regroup and keep moving to fight on another day.

Well, I would say ms that you are right-on.

Progressive and the far left need to realize that Obama didn’t campaign as a lefty. He campaigned as a centrist/center left candidate. The Democratic Party is a big tent party and governing that coalition is difficult. I’m okay with centrist/liberal policies being put in place when the alternative is what the Republicans offer. We can’t let conservatives back into power because their stated goal is to make sure that government doesn’t work. That’s scary stuff.

One term, then history. Shameful little man Obama, it’s unfortunate.

Obama will win in a landslide in 2012. I’m sure he will do okay without the dozen or so votes from the purists at firedoglake.

You sound a little defensive, are you really that sure?

Just a little reminder to you happy-faced Obamapologists: The proposed bill as it now stands includes the mandated purchase of health insurance from the same predatory healthcartel that has been victimizing this country. No public option. I refuse to believe that any regulatory Commission is going to be able to ride herd on these companies.

Also, let’s not forget that Big Pharma will be allowed to torch the countryside unhindered. So even if you do make it to the doctor, you won’t be able to afford the drugs he/she prescribes.

The pessimists here at FDL have been correct every step of the way. I see no reason why they won’t be correct again at this juncture.

I wouldn’t be terribly shocked if, after Congress scraped a public option through with reconciliation, Obama were to VETO it. Claiming that it would spike the deficit and cause a loss of jobs in the healthcartel industry or some other such horse manure. Remember, he is OWNED by the healthcartel.

How anybody can continue to have faith in this clown is beyond fathoming.

I tend to agree. There seems to be no limit to people’s glassy-eyed gullibility.

If as you say the votes are already there with a plan in place, the only risk would be for the Republicans to be on film publicly rejecting a popular reform that is subsequently passed – that would be messy for the Republicans who would end up getting voted out of office in the midterms instead of the Democrats.

you don’t need the republicans on film against the public option. even my dog knows they’re against it. we need them on film saying no to Good Cop.

the risk of bringing up the public option too much in the summit is more Democrats getting weak-kneed like Jello Jay. Keep it quiet, act like the Good Cop, make the Republicans say no to pre-existing conditions and out of pocket expenses and puppies and flowers. After that, they meet Bad Cop, who opens up their throat and shoves the public option through.

Empty mockery is cheap, and easily done. If you can manage to muster a substantive rebuttal, please do so. If not, well….

You insist on using inapplicable affiliations for your vote projections, and are thus confused and angry when confronted by reality. The real party breakdown in the Senate is not 59/41, nor was it 60/40. Those associations are artificial and temporary, existing solely for establishing control over committees and dividing up power over spoils.

For purposes of passing legislation, quite a different matter, the real party breakdown in the Senate is 41 Radical Reactionaries (Republicans), 12 Conservatives (BlueDog Democrats + Liebermann), 30 or so Moderate Liberals, 15 or so Progressive Liberals, and 1 Socialist. No group in this Congress has a majority, much less 60 votes needed under current Senate rules to overcome filibuster.

These groupings behave in a liquid, only poorly associative manner except for the Radical Reactionaries, who move almost entirely in lockstep (but not always, as we saw on the “jobs” bill today.) Nominal Democrats are free to act against the wishes of their leadership because, unlike a Parliamentary system, defeat of the majority party’s bills does not have an immediate punitive effect such as bringing about new elections or reshuffling of a governmental power structure. They all keep their established committee positions and associated power regardless, and have plenty of time to refine their image before facing the voters.

Neither Reid nor Pelosi can “command” their caucus to do anything, and Obama has no control over Congress whatsoever (nor would have Hillary). If you want to understand why our government works (or fails to work) as it does, you need to take a more nuanced view than just Blue and Red boxes. Or not, and you can just keep being frustrated and puzzled; up to you.