The fact that the Progressive Caucus folds so quickly and takes themselves out of the game is the reason I don’t give to candidates anymore. I wish Bill Halter success, and the other Firedogs, but it’s not worth the investment. They don’t/can’t deliver results. Far better to spend my limited cash on long-term movement infrastructure outside DC.

Exactly

Agreed, I am without a representative/caucus atm.

Go Stupak 12…. kill this bill!

progressive caucus again proves itself the group in Congress you should most ignore

You don’t often hear about Barack Obama cutting deals to get liberal support.

I guess he only cuts deals with his political allies.

From TPM:

President Obama’s message to progressives who are dissatisfied with the Senate health care bill is two fold: First: Don’t forget about the uninsured. Second: Don’t forget what failure to pass this bill would do to the party and my presidency.

Why is it I feel like I’ve been taken hostage? I want to scream “YOU’RE the one who got us all in this wretched position!”

Obama also apparently pledged to revisit the public option in the future.

Yeah. Right.

No PO? No Mandate!

No Stupak and NOvember!

Gosh, you mean Grijalva is not a monster?

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2010/03/defections-from-the-left.php

Make the Senate pass the House bill as written and fix the Stupak language with a signing statement.

It could happen.

I was amused by this passage in the Yglesias blog:

You just don’t vote “no” on a major expansion of the social safety net simply because you feel you’ve been slapped in the face.

Is the Senate bill a “major expansion of the social safety net”? And if so, how so?

Likely outcome, once again: Obama pressures House to pass Senate bill until last minute, readies face-saving gesture at end.

That’s not how it works. But it would sure be fun.

yeah!!!

Anyone see Rachel Maddow tonight, with a story on the connections between Stupak and the C Street/The Family group?

It’s getting to where I worry more about the Dominionist Christians than anyone else.

shit Rachel is on a conspiracy tear!!! ha ha ha ha!!! even GWB! OMG Al-Quida!!

I won’t believe Stupak until he provides the names of his dozen.

And Rachel did a beautiful job of sharing his C Street work tonight.

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen David Dayen and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

What about a simple and straightforward reconcilliation “fix” originating in the Senate that simply expands Medicare etc with a timeline beginning 2011 that phases out the mandate as the Medicare expansion takes place? Could be done simultaneous to the House votin’ the Senate bill into law, couldn’t it? Isn’t the ultimate way out here, gunna be a simple expansion of existing public healthcare structures that can grow as the market for them grows and of course it’s all covered by the Hyde Amendment?

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, IT’S BEEN IN FRONT OF ‘EM ALL ALONG!

No but for some reason it’s always the liberals who have to give up what they want. I don’t think “compromise” means what they think it means.

LMAO! Did you see her last segment? Rachel bin Maddow. I’m going to be laughing about that until everybody is quite annoyed with me…

I did and she was great!! Still LMAO!

Liberals Not The Problem On Passing Health Care

Probably because the liberals in the House aren’t really liberal. Again, there are no progressives in the Senate, and at most 5 in the House. And that’s it. Grijalva was going to cave on this from the get go. His folding should come as a surprise to no one. I hear the same kinds of things about Pelosi that she is really a liberal, etc., etc., but she never hesitates to line up behind the White House. A real liberal would be fighting Obama and his kleptocratic corporatists tooth and nail on healthcare and many other issues but not our Nancy. The Democrats aren’t simply worthless. They are working actively against us and our goals.

agreed

I totally agree.

Not one Progressive Caucus member has said I will not vote for the Max Baucus Insurance written Health Care Bill.

Glenn Greenwald article told real progressives the truth about Progressive Democrats in Congress, they only pay lip service to the Dem progressive base.

Now all the Progressives are trying to hide behind the Stupak 12. House Dems are praying that Stupak kills this bill.

We can only hope that in 2011 that one real progressive get elected to congress. It would be great to hear one progressive yell at the White House no Robust Public Option no Health Care Bill

The million dollar question about the Max Baucus Insurance Bill is what makes the Senate Health Care Bill Progressive? The Senate health Care Bill is a Republican Bill.

Obama and the MSM keep trying to call the Senate Health Care Bill Progressive, who are they trying to fool?

If House Dems pass the Senate Health Care Bill their political careers are OVER! How are Dems in Congress going to fight republicans, state Democratic and Republican lawmakers who attack the individual mandate and scream from every hill side, the federal government has over reach. In they are going to be yelling this in the middle of a depression.

Brookings is reporting that 100 million americans are heading toward poverty.

I’m not surprised but I am disappointed that Raul Grijalva folded.

From The Hill article linked above:

Grijalva also said that Obama gave CPC members his word that he would fight for a government-run healthcare plan in the future.

What future? 2011 when there are fewer Dems and more Republicans? 2012? And Obama’s word and $3 will get you a cup of coffee.

A major expansion in the safety net… but first lets wait a period of time a longer than between Pearl Harbor and the end of World War II.

I’m just not clear that the Senate bill offers insurance holders anything close to “safety” — that the insurance companies won’t just take people’s insurance money and then deny their claims regardless of the frivolous “penalties” for not doing so, or of the insufficient enforcement of the insurer penalties which will be offered by mostly-bankrupt state governments. One has to imagine that an “expansion of the safety net” would promise the people some assurance of “safety.”

If the pitiful little progressive caucus waited until Obama cut his deal with the Stupidacs and then delivered a message to the administration that they can’t vote for the bill until the Senate expands Medicare through reconcilliation, chances are we would really start seeing a show. That won’t happen, of course, because, as Hugh says above, there are no progressives in congress (with the exception of Dennis Kucinich). So we got a caucus of one. We can only go up from here, or maybe not.

I’m curious to see how Barbara Lee is going to vote.

Let’s see:

Millions of Americans will be forced by law and the IRS to buy insurance that they don’t want, can’t afford, and once they have it, giving up, say, any hope of a better life, college funds for the kids, what have you, they will find they can’t afford the copays and can’t see a doctor.

But they’re ‘insured’.

Either these Dems are *trying* to put themselves out of work, or they’re actually insane. Foam-at-the-mouth, stylish wrap-around jacket, padded cell insane.

Oh wait, what am I saying. Even if they get voted out en masse, they have steady work ahead as lobbyists.

I don’t see how a lousy bill that doesn’t take effect for years is better than no bill for Dems in the 2010 elections. There’s just enough time for the masses to figure out that they’re not getting anything useful any time soon, and that they’ll have to pay for it whether they like it (or use it) or not.

It’s not better at all. It’s far worse. People will know they’ve been screwed. With inaction, at least, the Dems could share the blame with Republicans. This abomination will pass without a single Republican vote, and thus they will be held blameless.

This will only be the first too. It’s the test case. Once this passes, every industry will line up for their turn at the trough, and why not? Thanks to Citizens United, they can just turn on the money spigot until they get whatever it is they want.

Horrible individual mandate which is designed to catch everybody in the net for the insurance companies slowly but surely needs to be removed from this bill.

Whats next ? Bailout for fast-food companies with IRS enforced individual mandates because people are eating healthy home cooked food and avoiding their junk food.

This individual mandate is un-constitutional and not in compliance with our declaration of independence principles of having liberty to make a free choice. This is a American issue and this mandate need to be removed right away.

What’s more likely to happen is that large numbers of people will pay the mandate penalties, and there will arise a great demand “in Congress” that the mandate penalties be vastly stiffened. Meanwhile, all of the shenanigans that one currently sees with health insurance will continue.

I become less and less of a “progressive” every day that this nonsense continues.

Shows just how worthless the progressive caucus actually is.

I’m curious when we start trumpeting progressive candidates, what’s the point really? Weiner, Grayson, Griljava…go down the entire list, all of them caved immediately, didn’t even try to put up a fight.

Yet where are the two that actually took a stand from the left? Kucinich is great but he’s always going to be relegated to a corner. Massa was also great, but now he’s retiring for whatever reason you choose to believe.

Why are we continuing to fund these people? What happened to the letter about no PO no bill?

This is why the progressive movement is doomed.

This individual mandate is un-constitutional

Unfortunately, it’s not. Fortunately, it’s only at 2.5% right now. It could be far, far worse.

Why are we continuing to fund these people?

Progressive ideology.

I don’t think it is Constitutional, but it’ll probably be ruled as such, and in the end that’s what matters.

I suppose after Kelo they can just define this as an eminent domain taking and be done with it. The public ‘benefit’ is that we all get to see the smiling insurance company executives on their new yachts.

I agree with you completely, I should have put “safety net” in quotes. :o)

Remind me, why is Herseth-Sandlin a Dem?

No PO? No Mandate!
No Stupak and NOvember!

Ooooooo, catchy. Can I quote you?

“NOvember” very nice.

Something else is that the Republicans have screamed about the mandates, as with everything else, but you can bet that if the bill passes with them they will love it. They claimed they’ll challenge it’s Constitutionality in the Court, but they’re liars and that’s not going to happen.

No, the mandates must go if there’s no PO. If a bill with mandates gets to the House it should be vetoed/stomped-on, burnt and voted down with laughter. Only idiots would hand that to the House and risk their presidency and senate seats in Nov. The House would have all the leverage over the presidency and senate for that one moment in time — and they could (to use a Yoo-ism) crush all their testicles at once.

Why should America be forced to pay for the Healthcare of Europeans per AIG and not our own?

Al Greenspan more dangerous than Al Qaeda?

Ya betcha!

Apropos of nothing, playing off “No”vember kind of makes me think of this.

I hope congress does what you described to the Senates HCR bill with the individual mandate if it is presented to them in such a form.

If the democratic party plans to have long term viability after this years November elections they better remove this Unamerican individual mandate without the safety net of the public option in any HCR bill they pass or else the party founded by our founding father Thomas Jefferson will be tarnished forever and cease to be major player in the countrys future elections.

I’ll be voting against anyone who is for this Max BaucusRhamBama bubblitious bullshit reform. The loopholes that will be penned into it on behalf of the economic elites will be audacious. For us there will be no alchemic potion to turn hope into reality.

Go out and march with the students. We will not be able to compete against policies enacted on behalf of the economic elites with e-mails, petitions or the rare appearance on the teevee by a Jane, or some other un-blinkered or less blinkered liberal. It’s always been shit in the streets that turned the tides of repression by the elites, and in more recent history it usually started with students and unions (not much there left for precisely that reason, Polish shipyard unions breaking the government, ironically come to mind.)

Join the students if you don’t care to join with the ‘baggers, but what is needed is mass, – and frankly it makes not an iota of difference what it’s composed of. In this case the sum of the parts is all that matters.

And in regard to Grijalva, this is why I refuse to pork out money when told such and such a Rep has pledged to the public option so let’s support him. The list of sellouts goes on. I can just hear Obama at this so called progressives session telling everyone, “this is just the foundation” that we are going to build upon. Obama is definitely a charmer and a con artist and they all fall for it.

Exactly right..

Yeah, Rachel’s doing great work…avoiding the real issues of the HCR boondoggle. God, I’ve gone from adoring her to barely being able to stomach watching. Pretty soon I’ll have another hour of completely free time, Mon-Fri from 6 p.m.- 7 p.m. PST.

that’s a fucking 100 year project on the up side!

right there with you, BigJess.

The left has divided into tiny group that believes (or pretends to believe) the Democrats have a good bill in the works, and another group (most people), who think the bill stinks to high heaven and will be a catastrophe.

The defenders of the bill–our rperesentatives and a few brave bloggers–sound half-hearted, as if they don’t really believe what they’re saying. I’m guessing some form of self-hypnosis here. Any sane observer can see the bill has destroyed the Democrats.

I especially love the argument that we will “fix the bill later,” which makes steam shoot out of my ears.

Yea right. The same people who just got done squatting down and crapping on us all year are swearing to fight for us in the future, if we’ll just play along this one last time.

Of course, the argument is a blatant insult, but not altogether surprising.

Surely you’ve noticed that a tendency to insult their fellow Democrats is a defining feature of Obama Democrats.

The argument that they will make the bill better also blatantly contradicts the other lame argument–that it’s a decent bill in the first place. We need to tell the apologists it is making them seem stupid and duplicitous–not good in politics.

Me too. She needs to stop bashing Republicans (yawn) and start calling out Democrats again.

Although I agree that the current Congress is thoroughly compromised and initiatives limiting corporate influence at the local state level that will bypas congress is needed, I don’t think that these two tacks are mutually exclusive. In fact I think they should be pursued in tandem.

That is, I think that electing candidates into Congress such as Halter who are dependent on the left for support is worth doing because it shows that the left has electoral influence and will make that candidate pursue our objectives. Showing to itaself and others that the left has electoral influence is a strategy that should be pursued in a more widespread manner.

At the same time local state ballot initiatives establishing single payer health insurance arrangements and placing limits on corporate behavior can be pursued at the same time. A dual track strategy is liable to bring about the changes we on the left want.

It’s the Democratic Party’s job to absorb and neutralize the energies of the left. How does it feel to have your energies (and your money) absorbed and neutralized? Then why are you still a Democrat?

The progressive democrats are as worthless a bunch as they come. Dennis is the only one with the guts and convictions to stand firm for what they believe. They are the only group that has sacraficed everything they said they stood for and they are the only ones eager to sign the bill. It is no wonder they get shit on all the time. I am not voting for any dem who votes for a healthcare bill without a public option.

Health Care Reform is Easy

The republicans have used reconciliation on health care before plenty of times – heck they created the whole CHIP program – via reconciliation. Dear lord stop swallowing the kool-aid – this isn’t a sporting event my side versus your side (do you think the status quo might be aware of the concept of divide and conquer – don’t be such dupes)

People, people, people – this is about getting our dollars back from the richest 1% that hoard them at the top (there is no such thing as trickle down) or For Profit insurance wouldn’t be killing the middle class, driving people with health insurance into bankruptcy, and tying a dead weight around small business and even the bigger national corporations – this has to get done – our politicians are playing games to get elected….

they are not “governing” but manipulating voter sentiment to whip up turn out to try and win elections – not based on any specific philosophy of governing but for plain old self interest.

Actual governing takes a huge back seat to “will I get re-elected” – the easiest way to solve the health care debacle of for profit health care is simple – but handing a success to the other party – isn’t how the political “game” is played.

Unfortunately our lives are caught in the cross fire of their STUPID GAME. And because of game playing we deregulated everything and created the global financial meltdown – ooppps – maybe proper management would have prevented that – but politics has never been about properly managing our resources – its about GETTING RE-ELECTED.

Healthcare is easy – here’s how -

“Use Senate reconciliation and expand Medicare via the Senate’s buy-in provisions. The CBO has already signed off on this as a means of saving money.

More importantly, if more Americans can do a buy-in with Medicare, it creates more cost control (because there’s a genuine competitor to for-profit healthcare).

It also helps to solve the problems of pre-existing conditions, because Medicare does not deny coverage on this basis.

Allowing a Medicare buy-in to Americans under 65 would give people a genuine alternative to private insurance and thereby render the pre-existing question moot.

It would also lower Medicare costs by expanding the risk pool of patients (the great bulk of medical expenses are accounted for by a small number of people, mostly the elderly, requiring very expensive treatment).

And it would substantially enhance the global competitiveness of American corporations. After all, in what other country in the world is health care a marginal cost of production for business?” – Roosevelt Institute Marshall Auerback

Now get out there tell your neighbors, your friends, pick up the phone and email your representatives – because whether you like it or not we are all in this together – and it’s us versus the politicians – not each other.

Paul Burke
Author Journey Home
Democracy For America