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Here’s an amazing little article from Politico.
The Roman Catholic bishops signaled Thursday that if agreement is reached with House leaders on anti-abortion language, the church would work to get the votes needed to protect the provisions in the Senate — and thereby advance the shared goal with Democrats of health care reform.
What are they talking about? Well, the bishops want the Stupak amendment, which would effectively end coverage of abortion services in all insurance markets over time.
Never mind that the federal government already subsidizes abortions through the employer deduction for coverage that almost always includes reproductive choice. Never mind that the Nelson compromise in the Senate bill would probably do exactly what the Stupak amendment does, because the requirement of two separate payments – one for your health insurance and one for the portion that covers abortion services – “would be cumbersome for insurers and objectionable to customers.” Never mind that Linda Blumberg, a health policy analyst for the Urban Institute, said that “There will not be abortion coverage in the exchanges. There just won’t be.” Never mind that the design of two separate payments singles out insurers who offer abortion coverage, opening them up to anti-choice protests. Never mind that under the bill, employer-based coverage is meant to move to the exchanges over time, as the eligibility for the exchanges expand, meaning that this restriction in the individual and small-group markets will eventually be brought to everyone. And never mind even that Ben Nelson, who authored the Senate version, “tried to figure out language that would be as close to Stupak as you could be without repeating the language,” according to his spokesman.
No, the Catholic bishops want to show a measure of dominance over the US government, and they want their way on this. And they have convinced Stupak to reject the “third bill” strategy, which House leaders offered to him.
What they want to do is to put the changes to the abortion language in a reconciliation sidecar bill, the second bill. This ensures that it will get passed as part of the package, since the President and Senate leaders have already promised that the sidecar will become part of the agreement.
But wait, you say. Reconciliation is intended only for budget-related items. How could the Stupak amendment language on abortion survive the inevitable point of order on the Byrd rule? Well, the bishops want to break that rule, and get 60 votes from the Senate to waive the point of order.
“We would strongly urge everyone, Democratic and Republican, to vote to waive the point of order,” Richard Doerflinger, an associate director of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, told POLITICO. “Whether it would be enough to get to 60 votes, I can’t predict. We would certainly try.”
“I think it’s something we should explore,” said Rep. Dale Kildee (D-Mich.), a longtime opponent of abortion. “It could be something that could carry out the bishops’ objective.”
Essentially, the bishops would opt to try and change the reconciliation process and the Byrd rule to accommodate their restrictions of women’s choice. And they would threaten all Senators, Republican or Democrat, who didn’t vote their way, to break the rules.
Those are the words of a group that considers themselves more powerful than the government, and I suppose with good reason.
Now, I have no idea why they would think that Republicans in the Senate would vote affirmatively to untangle the only remaining piece between the Democrats and a health care bill. But, they cite as evidence of their power the initial vote on the Stupak amendment in the House in November, which every Republican voted for.
The precedent of waiving the reconciliation point of order whenever the mood strikes would be potentially powerful for essentially ending the filibuster. But my suspicion is that, if it comes to this, waiving the rules to make allowances for the Catholic bishops to crusade against women would be seen as a one-time deal. “We HAD to do that,” you see, and it’s not applicable to anything, you know, progressive.
If this actually happens – and if Pelosi has no other options to find the votes, I’ve little doubt that she’d at least explore it – you’ve basically ended the separation between church and state in this country.
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Well, Bart Stupak has to pay back C Street Family for the cheap rent – this must be how he does it.
One, Stupidpak needs a new place to live in downtown Detroit after he’s dropped off, by himself, tomorrow night on a corner – any corner, and two, don’t the catholic bishops have enough to work on with all the issues they have molesting young boys all over the world and the pedophile prostitution ring in their midst ??
Hmmm.. Influence over the American government – huh… NO.. Go AWAY YOU PERVERTS and DO IT TODAY !
The so-called,”right to lifers” are merely sexual tyrants and sexual terrorists. They hate women and want to punish them for having sex by forcing them to carry their pregnancies to a live birth. End sexual terrorism.
So the argument against voting for Jack Kennedy because the Papists would wind up calling the shots comes true in an oblique kind of way.
Keep the Church out of our Constitution!!
If these Bishops want to interfere in how the country is run, Then they Must pay the price and lose their Tax exemption for being a church… Didn’t Jesus say “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and give to God what is God’s.”
They Also must follow the Laws of this Country which stipulate the Church and State Must be separate!
I am so fucking tired of “Other People” who want the rest of us to follow their Morals!! Tell where in the Constitution it says we will have a National Religion??? Tell Them to STFU!!
Maybe the Catholic bishops ought to worry more about the gay prostitution ring at the Vatican.
past time to strip the Catholics, the Southern Baptists, the Mormons and most other denominations of their tax exempt status. They have thumbed their collective noses at the rules for far too long, to this nation’s detriment.
Thanks for this post, David.
I’m not sure I understand why some think it’s helpful to bash on Catholic bishops. They’re doing what they sincerely think is right.
The real question is: What the fuck are the Democrats doing? No one should be held accountable for what they’re doing in the name of “health care reform” but them. If they pass this immoral Stupak garbage, all Americans should demand that they change the language in the next Democratic Party platform to reflect their new views, which are totally contrary to the position that is stated clearly and unequivocally in the current Democratic Party platform: Renewing America’s Promise.
Why is it that Democrats always find ways to fuck things up, no matter how strong the hand they’re dealt by the American people?
yeah, like a self fulfilling prophecy.
Because of this, I won’t vote for a Roman Catholic unless I am sure they are independent of the Church’s political goals. And no more Catholics on the Supreme Court!
Whatever their sincerity concerning abortion and it’s practices here in the US, they have absolutely no business meddling into the politics at that level, and instead need to use the pulpit to generate support for their position. But, last time I looked (about 50 years ago!), it is ineffective, so now, this.
The church does not operate by popular vote (of the layperson) so now they want to destroy that in Congress.
No! Wait! It already is!
They are afraid of the power that women have over them.
I’m with you, sister.
It sucks. Totally.
why not them too? After all, corporations are “renting” members of both chambers like cheap whores, health insurers and drug makers own the White House, and, like Dick Durbin said, the banks own the Senate. Why shouldn’t the bishops get their payoffs too, as long as all other corrupt criminal enterprises have their claws in our Congress?
Those bishops are simply Roman mullahs in ermine, and kissing cousins of the Baptist Taliban in suits. Phooey on them!
best question. Possibly related, TPM claims that NOW is supporting Sestak in his primary challenge to Specter. So NOW is directly confronting the White House. Specter built his rep in PA on long-standing loyalty to abortion rights, but what has he done lately? How would he fight off the bishops in the Senate? And how the fuck did we elect a president who would let this Stupak shit occur without mentioning the word “veto”?
There’s nothing left to do but laugh at this ongoing travesty where nothing is possible for progressive goals, but there’s no holds barred for a conservative/corporate win. This reinforces my new understanding that progressives won’t have allies in congress or the white house without showing that they can destroy a politician’s career. Politicians do the bidding of whoever presents the greatest threat and/or who offers the most money.
You’re preaching to the choir, so to speak.
My point remains.
You need to tell it to the Democrats currently holding elected office. They’re the ones fucking up. They’re the ones who should be held accountable.
The other day, Elliot said Tough Nougies. Love that stuff. Phooey!
Remember when the Big O(bstacle) said that he would personally work to remove the Stupak language?
I don’t remember that. We need to find a transcript of that.
I guess the WH could claim they did that by having the Senate adopt the Nelson-Boxer compromise. But what is the WH response now to this Catholic church bullshit?
Maybe you need a hobby? I’m just saying that maybe everyone here jumping on the President for every step he makes, is not helping. Is it? Seriously. I had a boss once who told me Just don’t make a whole fucking career out of it. Saying.
OK. This is ridiculous. Wasserman-Shultz has been all over the place saying they couldn’t do a Public Option (Which removes billions from the deficit) because of the Byrd rule.
How in the HELL does this Stupak thing relate to the budget? This shouldn’t even be eligible for reconciliation. ESPECIALLY after the justifications they used with the PO. She’s the whip for jebuz’ sake!
sorry, OT – bookmark for later.
DIANE RAVITCH — (“She’s long been known as an advocate of No Child Left Behind, charter schools, standardized testing, and using the free market to improve schools. But she’s had a radical change of heart”):
“The Obama administration, however, has bought into this rhetoric of accountability and choice, and they’re actually taking the Bush policies to a greater extreme. There is more support from the administration, this administration, for choice, because they have no opposition in the Congress, because it’s a Democratic president….”
“They’ve said to the states in the “Race to the Top,” this competition that was just held, that the requirements to be considered are, first of all, that the states have to be committed to privatizing many, many, many public schools.”
“And Obama has said that he wants to see 5,000 low-performing schools transformed or closed, as we saw just recently in Rhode Island, where the only high school in a desperately poor community is supposed to fire all the teachers, close the school. And I think this is a terrible thing for public education. And I think we’re going to see a devastation of public education over the next—however long this president is in office, unless he changes course, which I hope he will, and doubt that he will.”
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/3/5/protests
hahahahaha! that’s rich! This IS my hobby.
We may come to regret tearing Obama down do much. And we started before he was even sworn in. However much we gripe, this situation could be a lot worse.
not to mention that working to get a progressive in the White House and working to create progressive majorities in the House and Senate is my WHOLE fucking career right now. What’s your career?
Thanks David and for all the excellent comments.
When an RC priest is found to have repeatedly molested underage boys, the Bishop tells the parishioners about mercy and that they have to be forgiving, because there is a priest shortage,
because the hierarchy will not go back to optional celibacy, like it was up until the 11th century. And God’s power of ordination can only work through one gender.When a divorced Roman Catholic, who cannot afford an annulment (or does not want to debase themselves by pretending they were crazy when they gave consent), or both; wants to remarry, those same Bishops are flat out of forgiveness and mercy. Unless the divorced Roman Catholic lives a life of perfect celibacy, just like a priest, they are denied the sacraments and damned to Hell.
Not helping what? If the a-hole said he’d fight for something and ends up fighting for the exact OPPOSITE …. WTF? If you are OK with that, well, you are just like a goddamn republican.
I’ve got a new career now. It’s holding my government accountable. If you don’t like it … hahahahahahahaha. Seeing you democrats go the way of the GOP electorate (willing to allow your leader to any damn fool thing he wants without saying peep) makes me all the more dedicated. I’ve only got one vote. But damn, I can be noisy … this wheel’s a-squeekin, thanks.
It IS a fun one, isn’t it? Never got into knitting, myself. Do enjoy some gardening, but it’s raining.
Here I am. *g*
Great catch.
IMHO, that could be really big for the teachers unions and beyond.
I forwarded a copy to the education reporters at my local paper.
Ain’t got one. Have a part time job. Worked 25 years in the television industry. Kinda semi-retired.
Well. No offense. But you have clearly failed. Because you (we) put a conservative in the White House. Now fucking fix it.
Agree.
Because the practice of screwing is immeasurably high in the US and the valid desire by women for the termination of unwanted pregnancies is therefore a certainty, the consistent position for Catholic Bishops if they are opposed to abortion by law is to require that Congress pass a law against fucking.
Well, that’s one of the reasons that moderation in all things works out well. Less crow to eat.
Misread your comment … sorry (wipes egg from face).
If the bishops were 1/1,000th as strong against torture, as they are against choice, Bynbee and Yoo would be in jail.
Certainly the prez and the congress should be held accountable and I have said that if the vote were held today, I’m not sure that I could vote for Obama and probably wouldn’t. However, we have reached some people in Congress but obviously not the prez. I think we need to try another approach with him because he isn’t even acknowledging that we exist.
It doesn’t relate to the budget. It isn’t eligible for reconciliation according to the current rules, as I understand them. The Senate Parliamentarian most likely would require 60 votes, which would mean 41 Rs and at least 9 Ds. Of course, as Rs don’t want to vote for the bill at all, I don’t see that happening. So, even if it did somehow meet the reconciliation requirements, the question is this:
Why are there 50 Ds who will vote to essentially overturn Roe v. Wade, but not 50 Ds who will vote in favor of a public option?
yes, this is fun. and it can also be a rewarding career. we can always be on the lookout for promising new firepups.
Less of EVERYTHING to eat. Less health care. Less civil liberties. Less justice. Less equity. More people with less, and less people with immeasurably more.
Your philosophy is one of failure.
what qualifies one for a ‘firepup’?
good one.
Thanks for the post David and hello pups.
don’t apologize. we need to be open to the possibility that we DID fail and if so figure out how and why.
meanwhile, we are also failing at moving the House in a progressive direction if the progressive caucus can take our half million dollars in support of the public option promise and then (like Woolsey) turn their backs on us.
verrrry funny. you forgot to give us a spew alert.
May I suggest to the Church that they worry about their own pervert problems with Priests, not to mention the latest scandal at the Vatican – and keep their pressure on politicians out of Congress?
After all, there is this thing called “Separation of Church and State”. It’s there for a reason.
And if the Church is stubborn and wants to put their fingers all over this Healthcare Legislation, I say drop the Church’s Tax Free Status IMMEDIATELY!!
Civility. Pretty much lets you out.
I had no problem voting for Obama in 2008 against McSane and Palin. I am sure he will be less bad than whomever the GOP nominates in 2012 and I will vote for him.
I really do not have a problem with how he handled Detroit. His rhetoric on foreign policy has been a lot better than W.
He is wrong on spending for the Pentagon, Afghanistan and Iraq. Wrong on Wall Street. Wrong on the health insurance cartel and big pharma. Wrong on torture. Wrong on taxing Americans with ultra high net worth. Wrong on the deficit, jobs, and investing in the REAL economy. Wrong on green stuff. Wrong on glbt stuff. I see nothing gained by insulating him from the consequences of his administration’s mistakes.
I disagree. You don’t know me, and if you did, you’re know that it’s just not the case.
It’s just another back door attempt to stop health care reform. The moneyed interests of the far right, will do (or say) anything to keep us from fixing this problem.
Hiya, o&s. :) yup.
No wonder the founders of the Massachusetts Bay colony had such an intense dislike of “Papists”. They stick their nose into everything… even when it has nothing to do with them.
Oh, and the RC bishops want to Play Politics then I think it’s time for them to Pay Taxes, retroactively to say, July 1776.
The RC Bishops have not had all that many victories recently, so this power play is an attempt to show Rome it still has some moxie. It is being pushed by those who made such a scene last year when Obama was invited to Notre Dame — and within higher Catholic Circles it is also a political power play in inner-church politics.
Sadly, our women’s organizations such as NOW and others have never understood the need to build grass roots organization, particularly they haven’t understood why they needed to bring Younger Women — those too young to remember how things were before Rowe v. Wade — into a national movement to protect and preserve reproductive choice rights. Instead, they have used “fear” of Supreme Court Nominations and challenges such as this to raise the campaign money so the lobbyists in DC could play access games with the dollars collected.
To say the least, every Senator and House Member should hear from thousands in the next few days demanding that real access to exercise of reproductive rights be maintained.
Personally, I find the argument that because a minority of Americans, on the basis of Religious Theology can demand an exemption from paying insurance that may cover some reproductive services of which they disapprove essentially unconstitutional. Let me point out that among Quakers and Mennonites and others, there is a very strong theological objection to Militarism, and over the years tax refusers have challenged the right to require payment of or withhold taxes that support the military. They have taken cases to the Supreme Court, and they have always lost. This is the same principle — but it would take a few years to bring a case and see if one could move it through the courts.
But right now we need to deluge Congress with communications.
Here in D.C. our ABC teevee affiliate is owned by Annenberg Communications. Maybe your years in teevee showed you some of the sickening underside of that business. Same family also owns/finances Politico. Total right wingers. So I never like using Politico as a source for anything. But, since Politico is a GOP sock-puppet, it is always easy to see leaks in Politico as coming straight from the right wing, which in this particular case includes the Catholic bishops.
Some times it’s less fun.
choice, I guess you choose to be one – or not
Well said.
Casti Connubi (1930) from Pius XI (not Hitler’s pope, he was 12), got pretty close. According to Casti Connubi, after the woman grew too old to conceive, there was no more reason to have sex.
Paul VI in Humane Vitae (1966) was the great liberal ( snark intended), by going beyond Casti Connubi. Humane Vitae allowed sex between a married couple after they could no longer conceive. It also legalized rhythm, which up to that point had been a mortal sin.
Remember when the Bush-Cheney justice department went after that liberal church’s tax exempt status for talking about politics? Well I’m sure Obama’s justice department will be right on the bishops for this infraction. We can count on the Big O to stand up for us on this…
What? You don’t think so?
Oh, so you’re pro-choice, are ya? Freaking hippie. (love you)
Thanks.
nobody here is into failure, I’m happy to say. *g*
oh yeah, civility – [Edited by Moderator]
You comment here regularly, you’re not a troll, so you’re a firepup.
And no, civility is not one of the requirements.
not sure I follow everything in your post, but I wondered what you thought of NOW endorsing Sestak against Specter? Does that show they get it?
at the time, I was not aware the Catholics wanted to pass laws against fucking but I was aware they supported the war in Vietnam. I was hearing lots of “it’s our moral duty to fight in Vietnam.” That was all I needed to quit them; they have been the enemy ever since.
“not sure I follow everything in your post, but I wondered what you thought of NOW endorsing Sestak against Specter? Does that show they get it?”
I don’t think National NOW or NARAL or others should be in the endorsing business. I think that should be left to state chapters. Aside from President, everyone else is elected by a state or CD. Money for elections should be given back to state chapters, and let them do the endorsing based on their own study of the choices. The State Chapters are the ones that need the access to elected officials.
Remember when NARAL jumped into the Conn. Primary and endorsed Joe Lieberman when the Conn. Chapter had endorsed Lamont?
Riesz, Elliott, thanks.
Why do officers in an organization with a brewing gay prostitution scandal at headquarters in Rome get to say anything about legislation at all? As my grandmother Mimi used to say when we were in one another business, “Tend your own affairs.” That’s my advice for the bishops.
“at the time, I was not aware the Catholics wanted to pass laws against fucking but I was aware they supported the war in Vietnam. I was hearing lots of “it’s our moral duty to fight in Vietnam.” That was all I needed to quit them; they have been the enemy ever since.”
Actually, I found the Catholics pretty good on Vietnam. In 1966 the Supreme Court issued a ruling that vastly enlarged the basis for granting a draftee CO status, and since the case had been brought by Catholics who objected to draft boards believing that only Quakers could have CO status, and making decisions on that basis. As soon as the ruling came down many of the Clergy were asked to provide counseling for prospective CO’s, and since I was then working for an Ecumenical Civil Rights group, they asked me as one of the only Quakers they knew, what to do about…..
Well, I worked with an Auxilary Bishop, James Shannon (who later left the Church, though not on this issue) and the Episcopal Bishop, and some Lutheran Leaders, and got Quakers who had been doing Draft Counseling since WWII to work with them and sketch out a training program. They then trained several hundred priests and pastors in a seminar/retreat setting, and the local boys all got the kind of Clerical Support they needed at draft boards, and in addition, the religious types were fairly well versed in all the law on the matter. Of course everyone had to write their own anti-War theology.
Well, much of what gets posted in these pages amounts to preaching to the choir. Nobody dings those folks, afaik, so bug off about the preaching crap, huh?
“Why do officers in an organization with a brewing gay prostitution scandal at headquarters in Rome get to say anything about legislation at all? As my grandmother Mimi used to say when we were in one another business, “Tend your own affairs.” That’s my advice for the bishops.”
Teddy, when you are in the middle of a scandal, and many in the Higher Circles of your organization are beginning to wonder what kind of an organization they belong to, the best strategy is to go attack the ladies again.
Today Der Spiegel has a long piece about the boy’s Choir the Pope’s Brother led for over 30 years (he too is a priest) with claims that at least a hundred boys who were subject to punishing initiation rituals that included sexual abuse, have brought forth complaints in Munich. Pope’s brother says he never heard a word about it, but it apparently went on in the school where he lived and taught for at least 30 years. Sounds in the Der Spiegel piece as if the initiation rituals might have had a touch of Satan in them too — rituals with red wine with ten year old Choir Boys.
They have much reason to change the subject.
Any group religious or not, that wants to appeal to Congress for the purpose of affecting legislation should make its case before a congressional committee and required that their position be supported by facts. That is the threshold used for everyone else.
For instance what possible set of facts could these Bishops provide for denying women the right to buy insurance for the unanticipated need of ending an unwanted pregnancy.
Their plea based on theological grounds is by definition not factual and inadmissible. If they are disallowed from using theological grounds for their case what are they doing appealing to congress in the first place.
Wonderful work! Too bad it was so rare. Nothing like that occurred around Philadelphia (1964-1970), which was the heart of both Quaker anti-war organizing and Catholic pro-war fear-mongering.
Conscientious objector (CO) organizing was a very tiny part of the anti-war effort, on balance, statistically speaking, and with 40 years of hindsight. Especially organizing COs within Catholic communities. The Church played a very powerful pro-war role nationally for nearly 20 years.
I thought the founders of this country fought against religious tyranny of the Catholic Church? And, they warned us about corporations taking over our government. I guess we will be fighting against both AGAIN! We seriously need to get corporations out of our government and Religion out of our government and bedrooms. This is getting ridiculous.
I think there’s a bigger picture here no one seems to be minding… Go get a cup of coffee and bear with me as this is a long post.
Recall,
“The United States has grown from 13 states in 1776, to 50 states, 5 territories (Guam, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Northern Mariana Islands, US Virgin Islands), 1 district (District of Columbia) and other lands (such as Guantanamo Bay and Johnston Atoll) today. The country grew from east to west. It conquered and bought lands. It also divided some states into two.
The states are divided into smaller counties. Two states use different words than “county”. Louisiana uses the word “parish”. Alaska uses the word “borough”.
The United States also consists of several other lands that are not states. Most of these are colonial territories, and are not a part of the Mainland U.S. Some examples are:
* Washington, D.C., the capital.
* Puerto Rico
* American Samoa
* Guam
* U.S. Virgin Islands
* Northern Mariana Islands
The Philippines was once a colony of the United States, but is now an independent country. Palau, the Federated States of Micronesia, and other Pacific island nations were once governed by the United States as a United Nations “Trust Territory”, but are now independent.
The U.S. military has bases in many countries. The U.S. Naval base at Guantanamo Bay was rented from Cuba, and kept after that country had a Communist revolution.” (from http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_states#States)
You may have read about the effect on American protectorates of the Boehner Amendment to HR3962 in “Sweatshop Insurance: O’Boehner Care & the Northern Marianas” (http://mydd.com/users/bruce-webb/posts/sweatshop-insurance-oboehner-care-amp-the-northern-marianas). The amendment was voted down on Nov 7, 2009 (hattip to newtonusr in http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/07/stupak-amendment-redux-roll-call-vote-live-blog/ and official record of the US House vote at http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll885.xml#Y):
“Now this language is followed by a bunch more pages setting out rules about lawsuits and appeals but the bottom line is pretty clear: should private insurers choose they can officially choose the Virgin Islands or the Northern Marianas as the governing jurisdiction for all their individual insurance policies and their is basically nothing the states of California, New York or Washington can do about it. Which is a hell of a twist on the part of people who are constantly bleating about the Tenth Amendment. Boehner just turned them over to the tender graces of the Insurance Commissioner of the N. Marianas. And since it is quite possible the N. Marianas does not have such a Commissioner now I am sure that their old lobbyist Jack Abramoff can supply a few names of suitable (and pliable) candidates.
This is not quite as bad as I first thought since I thought Boehner would have extended this cross state lines ability to employers buying group plans which combined with the auto-enrollment rules of Title II would really put employers in the drivers seat. But even if restricted just to the individual market it is horrible enough. Certainly not every individual insurer will designate the Northern Marianas as its ‘primary State’ but Boehner is proposing a rush for the bottom process of jurisdiction shopping for insurance companies and hiding it behind a veil of “Choice” for policy seekers.
And of course there is nothing that would prevent an extension of this to group coverage. Or employers simply dropping that group coverage in favor of some subsidy for individual insurance.
In any event if you like your ‘Made in the U.S.A.’ t-shirt made by near slave labor in Chinese owned sweatshops in the Northern Marianas you are going to love your ‘Made in the U.S.A.’ insurance plan regulated by the somewhat notorious government of the N. Marianas.”
According to spreadsheets developed by the Huffingon Post available in “Move Your Politicians” (at http://moveyourmoney.info/archives/1029), Hatch holds a bank account with Zions Bancorporation’s property, Zions Bank (http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/Senatebanking.xls), and Cantor holds an account with Bank of America (http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/bankingreps.xls). For Boehner, the Huffington Post had no information– “Not Listed (note: Under 5K).”
I posit to you that the multi-national corporations called “Churches” and given special tax treatment (special money shelters) by IRS and abroad just see the US as one vast opportunity for expansion. The Catholic Bishops have a significant investment in at least 1328 health care facilities (see “Fast Facts About Catholic Health Care” at http://www.dioceseofgfb.org/userfiles/file/General%20Mailing/August%202009.pdf) that appear located in the US fifty states, the Reservations (see “Indians 101: Faith-Based Reservations” at http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/3/4/842863/-Indians-101:-Faith-Based-Reservations-), Territories and Protectorates.
So, it would be interesteing to know the full holdings of this multi-national corporation and others given Church status by the IRS in the US and abroad. It would be interesting to know the flow of monies and insurance payments through them.
Here are some other sample data points on the US and international fronts:
“Catholic Church Insurance
According to the East African, the Nairobi Catholic Church has been licensed to start an insurance company, which it hopes will save it from paying out $20 million in premiums each year. This struck me as odd because I just learnt that, in Pakistan, drivers carry no car insurance, because one can’t insure “against the will of God” – which is what accidents are.”
– from “Tivo, Catholics and Mayor Dick” published Thursday, September 01, 2005 accessible at http://bankelele.blogspot.com/2005/09/tivo-catholics-and-mayor-dick.html
“Catholic Knights, one of the largest Catholic fraternal benefit organizations, and Catholic Family Life Insurance, the oldest, today announced they have signed a letter of intent to merge.
The merger would result in a combined membership of 120,000 with licensed operations in 27 states, total assets exceeding $1.1 billion and approximately $4.8 billion of insurance in force.
The merged organization, whose name will be determined in the coming months, will be headquartered at Catholic Knights’ current location in downtown Milwaukee, according to Catholic Knights president and chief executive officer Bill O’Toole.
OToole will remain president and CEO of the merged organization. Dan Lloyd, president and CEO of Shorewood-based Catholic Family Life Insurance, will serve as a senior level executive with the merged company, although his title has not yet been determined.
“This partnership is an excellent fit,” O’Toole said. “It joins together two organizations dedicated to providing financial security, volunteer service opportunities and support to members who embrace Catholic values. All of us take that mission very seriously, and we believe a merger will allow us to provide an even higher level of service to our members, our Church and our communities.”
“Our two organizations are extremely similar, and it’s clear that by coming together, we can realize significant operational benefits and cost savings that can be passed on to our members,” Lloyd said. “This merger really is about good stewardship and providing the strongest future possible for the families and communities that depend on us.”
The two companies said they are not certain about how the merger will affect employees in Milwaukee and Shorewood.
“CK and CF value the important contributions of all of their employees and both organizations are committed to treating all employees in a fair and just manner … At this point, it’s not exactly certain how the merger will impact employees, but that topic will be a large part of merger discussions as they move forward. When the organizations have more information about the impact on employees, they will share it. If there are cuts, CK and CF will do everything they can to make the transition as easy as possible,” said Brenna Kriviskey Sadler, spokeswoman for the combined companies.
The boards of directors for both organizations have given their approval to move forward with a merger, with the target of completing the merger agreement by Dec. 1, 2009. Under both societies’ bylaws, representatives of the groups will vote on whether to finalize the merger during the first quarter of 2010.”
– from “Catholic Knights to merge with Catholic Family Life Insurance” published August 12, 2009 – BizTimes Daily accessible at http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2009/8/12/catholic-knights-to-merge-with-catholic-family-life-insurance
“Case Study: Catholic Health Initiatives
Opportunity:
“Technical ability in a consultant is a given,” says Mitch Melfi, Chief Risk Officer of Catholic Health Initiatives (CHI), a large national health care system based in Denver. “What sets Tillinghast apart is its consultants’ ability to take something incomprehensible to a layperson and make it understandable to a board of directors and others for whom insurance isn’t a daily focus.”
CHI was formed in 1997, when four large Catholic health systems merged. Today, CHI has 69 hospitals, 43 long-term care facilities, assisted living and independent living facilities, and five community-based health organizations in 19 states.
Our Solution:
Tillinghast consultants helped CHI form its offshore captive, which the health system uses to cover its professional liability, workers compensation for 65,000 employees, and property and automobile exposures. Since its formation, John Mize of Tillinghast’s Atlanta office has been the lead actuarial consultant for CHI.
“Catholic Health Initiatives has an atmosphere that encourages strategy development,” Mitch says. “For risk management, we have a planning team made up of CHI people and outside consultants that plays out ‘what if’ scenarios and develops a long-term strategy. John’s an important part of that team because he’s more than an actuary. He’s very knowledgeable about other aspects of the business.”
Mitch and his team must balance the need to keep the captive viable and stable over time with the needs of CHI’s hospitals and health programs, so Tillinghast’s modeling and forecasting work plays an important role ― as does John’s ability to interact with CHI’s captive board of directors.
“One defining moment came several years ago, when we faced the largest single-year premium increase in our history,” Mitch says. “We presented the increase and the rationale for it to a committee of the board, and afterward ― despite this big increase ― three hospital CEOs offered testimony as to the value of our captive program. That’s because we’d spent a lot of time over the years demonstrating the value of our program and making certain that the CEOs clearly understood how it works.”
– from “Case Study: Catholic Health Initiatives” accessible at http://www.towersperrin.com/tp/showhtml.jsp?url=global/service-areas/insurance-consulting/case-studies/case-study-catholic.htm&country=global
“Catholic Aid Association (Catholic Aid) is a fraternal benefit organization. The company is principally engaged in providing life insurance and retirement saving options. It operates through three product lines that consist of life insurance, IRA retirement accounts and annuities. Its life insurance products include universal life insurance, whole life insurance, term life insurance, senior select final expense plan and youth life insurance. The organization provides its services in Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wisconsin and Iowa serving more than 74,000 members. The company is headquartered at Minnesota, the United States.”
– from “Catholic Aid Association” accessible at http://www.banking-business-review.com/companies/catholic_aid_association
“Over the past decade, the Chinese insurance industry has undergone an evolution as it opened up in stages to foreign competition and built a diversified financial sector. Market consultants expect more domestic and overseas assets purchases and public listings led by Chinese insurers in 2010, along with continuous deregulation.
Following China’s entry into the World Trade Organization in late 2001, most regional limitations on foreign insurers were no longer valid by the end of 2004. Since then, health insurance, group insurance and annuity/pension markets have been opened to foreign insurers on top of the domestic life business.
According to the China Insurance Regulatory Commission, foreign insurers are allowed to set up branches, joint ventures with local partners or subsidiaries. If a joint venture is established, foreign ownership of a life insurance joint venture cannot exceed 50%.”
– from “China’s Insurance Market Concludes a Decade of Rapid Evolution” accessible at http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:-e4sx5aiT44J:insurancenewsnet.com/article.aspx%3Fid%3D153295%26type%3Dnewswires+%22CHINA%27S+INSURANCE+MARKET+CONCLUDES+A+DECADE+OF+RAPID+EVOLUTION%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Meanwhile, there’s this:
“Zions chief holding, Zions First National Bank, was a leading local bank in Salt Lake City. Prior to the buyout by Keystone and its associates, the bank was principally owned by the Latter-day Saints Church. Renowned Mormon leader Brigham Young had started the bank in 1873 to serve the church and local community. Throughout the late 1800s and through the mid-1900s, Zions had close ties to the Mormon Church, taking deposits from, and providing loans to, church members as well as handling many of the church’s financial transactions.
The group of investors that bought out the church’s ownership interest in First National in 1960 was headed by Roy W. Simmons. Simmons was a Mormon with a strong banking background. Both his father and grandfather had worked in banking and had served as officers of the competing First National Bank of Layton, near Salt Lake City. Under Simmons’s direction, First National prospered during the 1960s and 1970s. Besides emphasizing its core Salt Lake City market, the bank expanded into rural Utah and eventually amassed a regional network of branches throughout the northern part of the state.
By the 1980s, First National had cemented a position as the second largest banking organization in the state of Utah, earning Simmons a reputation as a savvy banker and businessman. “Roy has an uncanny knack for figures and sizing up a situation,” Lawrence Adler, president of the Utah Bankers Association, told Knight-Ridder/Tribune Business News, adding, “He’s a banker from the old school.
In addition to running one of the region’s most successful banks during the 1960s and 1970s, Simmons successfully helped raise his family, sending four sons to Harvard. One of his sons, Harris, would follow in the footsteps of the three generations before him.”
[snip]
“Although Zions changed radically during the 1980s and early 1990s, one part of its business that did not change was its tie to the Mormon Church. Many people still thought of Zions as the “Mormon Bank” in the mid-1990s because of its long-time affiliation with the church. The church continued to be one of Zions’ largest single customers. Zions had a separate “missionary remittance office” that handled electronic transfer funds to missionaries at the Mormon Church’s 285 worldwide missions.
Besides expanding through acquisition, increasing its fee services, and innovating new profit centers, Zions achieved significant gains during the 1990s by streamlining internal operations and tightening controls. The combined results of Zions’ strategy was strong revenue growth and even greater profit gains, suggesting a bright future for the holding company. As Zions Bancorporation’s asset base grew from $3 billion in 1989 to nearly $4.5 billion in 1993, the company’s net income surged to $26.6 million in 1990 and to $53 million in 1993. By 1994, Zions was operating about 125 branches in its three states and was involved in negotiations to acquire other banks in Arizona and Utah. In addition, it provided insurance, data processing, credit, and consumer lending services through several subsidiaries.
By 1995, brokerage firm Dean Witter Reynolds had ranked Zions as the best-performing regional bank in the United States.”
– from “Zions Bancorporation” at http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Zions-Bancorporation-Company-History.html
Also, Zions Bancorporation’s considers its principal competitors are “Bank of America Corporation; Washington Mutual Inc.; [and] Wells Fargo & Company” (http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Zions-Bancorporation-Company-History.html). Zions Bancorporation controls bank properties in the Pacific NW, West and SouthWestern US (map and details at “Investor Relations” accessible at http://www.snl.com/irweblinkx/corporateprofile.aspx?iid=100501).
In 2008 via the Financial Services Roundtable, Zions Bancorporation donated to several PACs including the following (complete list at http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pac2pac.php?cycle=2008&cmte=C00193177):
$5,000 Freedom Project
(Affiliate: John A. Boehner (R-Ohio))
$3,500 Every Republican is Crucial PAC
(Affiliate: Eric Cantor (R-Va))
$2,000 OrrinPAC
(Affiliate: Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah))
Given the overt belligerent behaviors of “church” groups recently, I am enough of a student of history such that the aforemented information reminds me of this:
“Converting Indians to the true faith, however, was not the only reason Spain promoted the mission system. In the seventeenth and eighteen centuries, when the mission system in Texas was established, there was a very close relationship between the church and state in the Spanish empire. Each supported the other in various ways. The state gave the Catholic faith a monopoly in religious matters. That is, it was the only church in the empire. The state moved against anyone who dared establish another religious organization. The government also collected the tithe for the church, ten percent of a person’s income, and punished people who failed to pay faithfully. It also supplied its own funds at times to help the church in its work, especially if that work promoted the best interests of the government.
In return, the state often used the church for its own political and diplomatic ends. Church leaders were often brought into the government as advisors, officials, and ambassadors. They were the best educated people in the kingdom as a general rule. Also, the church sometimes used its considerable influence over its members to encourage patriotism – which sometimes meant fighting a foreign nation, especially if that nation was Protestant, as in the case of England.
There were, however, non-religious reasons for the establishment of the mission system in Texas. First, the missions would not only save the Indians’ souls for eternity but would introduce them to Western European civilization. They would learn from the missionaries the rudiments of education, the practical arts and crafts of Spanish peasants, their language, and something of their law and government. Secondly, the Spanish sought to fulfill military purposes through the mission system dealing with threats, both real and imagined, from France. The Indians, once they had been Christianized and civilized by Spanish standards, would be trained in European warfare. They could then man the ramparts against the French enemy and help save the King’s empire. Spanish soldiers would of course have a place in the scheme. But the government was wise enough to see that soldiers alone would not be sufficient to stem the tide. There was simply too vast a space to be protected, too many Indians to be subjugated, and the costs would have been prohibitive.”
– from “The Missions and Mission System in Texas” accessible at http://www.austincc.edu/lpatrick/his1693/missions.html
No, we waited until he’d been in office and we could see that he was bought by groups other than voters. It was the GOopers who started before the inauguration.
No, they didn’t. They would have been perfectly happy to keep things the way they were, with each state having its own laws about religion. It would have been very difficult to maintain that system, though, and people were moving from states like PA and RI, with official religious freedom, to more conservative ones, and out to the frontiers.
Sorry, but you are mistaken. I could give you some names but I won’t.
but what about NOW’s endorsement of Sestak? TPM linked to this Philadelphia Inquirer online piece. Sounds to me like the “local” affiliate played a major role in the endorsement. More importantly, doesn’t this sound like NOW is using this primary challenge to energize its base (“boots on the ground”)?
Or unless they have money or political power, like Giuliani, in which case the hierarchy will be perfectly happy to give them the Eucharist and whatever else they want, while still talking about how bad divorce is.
If this is the case, kill the bill and pass Medicare for all when the health care system comes tumbling down. It will eventually do this with or with out this senate bill. It will happen sooner without the bill and later with the bill because of the mandates and no controls over the rising health insurance premiums. Reform the health care industry by getting rid of insurance corporations altogether and give everyone Medicare. Otherwise it’s just more corporate control of our government as usual.
Wonderful day to go out and run errands. Like going by Costco – fortunately there were some spaces in the middle of the lot, so I didn’t have to walk all the way across it in the rain with the bag of goodies.
Umm NOOOO, the founders of this country fought against religious tyranny and the monarchy to found a new country based on the laws of man, not the laws of God. It was called the Enlightenment.
so you both got rain. where are you? blazing clear sunburny type sky here in D.C. after what seems like years of ass-freezing wind
They were fresh out of Stuart England, which is the main reason. had nothing to do with the church getting into other people’s business, because the Puritans were big on that themselves, maybe even more into it than the Catholics (who had to keep it underground, pretty much, everywhere under English rule).
I recommend Albion’s Seed as a way to understand the background for the country we now have.
We have roughly 55 and showery – it’s raining off and on. Spring in Southern California: wait a few and see what it’s going to do next.
Fine, if the Catholic church wants to claim dominance over congress they should be called out. Their actions are either treason and it’s now an organization of subversives. Or, they are no longer a religious group deserving of 501C status. So Either try them or tax them but this should not go unanswered.
Actually, it came in as a troll and still is short of manners.
David, before I forget I just wanted to say what a great headline you dug out of that Politico piece. Way to re-spin the bishops holier-than-thou “we want reform to pass cuz we love the poor so much.”
Yes, but that’s a sane, reasonable position, and Congress doesn’t do sane and reasonable on anything that we might actually want.
hope you never have to deal with floods or mudslides
I wasn’t tearing him down before he took office, and I don’t know anyone else who did. You used a blanket claim without reason.
No, I’m on the flats, although street flooding is a real problem. The storm drain system was built when this area was still in acreage, and has never been upgraded as land was built over.
Go read your history books again. They were quite happy practicing religious tyranny, as long as it was their church writing the laws, and not one of the other churches. In many of the colonies, you couldn’t even vote if you weren’t a church member. (Some of them also required showing up for church several times a year.)
We have a brand new one in my end of the Valley, but I haven’t gotten there yet.
HI PJ!!!
“I recommend Albion’s Seed as a way to understand the background for the country we now have.”
DOUBLE DOUBLE DITTO.
“Doing what they sincerely think is right”. This is the trouble with all religions. They believe in nonsensical superstitious beings that live in the sky which give them the idea that because of that belief they can do anything they want. These bishops have participated in destroying men and women’s lives by their perversions, and/or are are actively preventing disclosure and restitution. The evangelicals are no different, demanding ignorance be the rule of the land, scaring people with their fearmongering ‘left behind’ horseshit, and denying evolution and climate change. Tax these assholes, all of them. I’m really tired of our taxes be spent for their stupidities.
sooo much serious content suddenly popping up on this thread. maybe that’s why it’s sometimes a career to comment here. *g*
I was trying to recommend this post, but there’s no “recommend” button up top. Gotta go get groceries, peace out.
“Monty Python Crackpot Religions LTD”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JKvJaJKPPk
I only meant that I agree with you regarding the bishops having absolutely no business meddling into the politics at that level.
Still, the real issue/problem is what the Democrats are doing to allow this to happen, not what the Catholic bishops are trying to do.
” . . . the Catholic bishops want to show a measure of dominance over the US government . . . ”
Worse, the US government will probably capitulate and let them.
And worse, the Catholic bishops are determine to establish, even through our own government, complete dominance over women.
You don’t agree with what they believe. That’s fine. I would expect them to resist you if you try to force them to stop believing what they believe, though.
I think the Democrats are to blame for letting the bishops influence them rather than the bishops for trying to influence them.
As far as taxing them, I have to agree that they should either stop interfering in politics or pay up. Do you know any Democrats in elected office who are willing to get the ball rolling?
Yes very true and this state of affairs leaves sane and rational people with a limited set of options, on this church intromission into government matter as in practically all else.
The upshot is that the federal government is currently not a viable entity for useful social policies and to assure our well being we are in the uncomfortale position of having to turn to ourselves for solutions. I think for the time being we on the left must organize and turn to passing state initiatives as relates to insurance, electoral and corporate reform and not count on the feds which are hopelessly corrupted.
“left behind’ horseshit”.
Oh god just too funny. And sums up these wackos perfectly. On the one hand you have the cry baby, repentent, pervert hucksters and on the other the morons that who grin like cretins as they are getting fleeced.
And we are supposed to abide by these people’s standards of conduct. Really?
Thank you.
So far as the Demos, that was my first response reading the blog.
But I don’t really expect anything any more. Just to add my voice where I can, on the phone or on the Internet.
I agree with you. No offense to others, but believing that these Catholic Bishops are “sincerely doing what they think is right” is engaging in magical thinking. I’m very cynical about almost any religulous organization, esp the Roman Catholic church which has had a jihad on women for many centuries. Just ask the “retired” nuns how highly they think of the pederasts who rule the roosts.
The Catholic hierarchy is all about power, domination, control and money and has very little truck with religion, spirituality, belief in god, or whatever. Granted that there are exceptions, and there are many fine priests out there. But I’m talking about the real power in the Vatican and elsewhere in that particular church. They have been anti-women since forever, have sought continuously to keep women down and dumb and enslaved, and have treated women in the church structure accordingly.
Now they wish to raise their ugly mugs away from the Catholic Church pederast scandal du jure to go after women YET AGAIN. Spare me the sycophantic sucking up about how they’re just ever so concerned about “real people” and their spiritual lives. Bull hockey. NO they ain’t.
The Catholic Church is also pumping up the volume on end of life issues, which is – yet again – another way for them to make money in their hospitals. There is nothing anywhere that says that “god” wants the elderly or the maimed or the disabled to be put on feeding tubes and breathing apparatus to extend life indefinitely for no reason whatsoever. It was not all that long ago, that people just passed away naturally. Now these self-same, smug Catholic Bishops wish to pass out encyclicals to force people to live way longer than is natural in the name of “god’s will.” Spare me. It’s all about Catholic Hospitals making $$$$ off of the suffering of their flock.
We are supposed to have separation of church and state in this nation. I realize that’s a notion that’s rapidly being pushed to the wayside by numerous groups out to enrich their powere and control in different ways. But nonetheless, I simply don’t “get” why the frackin Catholic Bishops get so much attention anymore, esp given their outrageous pederast scandals. Enough is enough already with these perverts.
oh yeah, fucking illegal aliens, unwashed, ‘the other’ are all pissing on my lawn. That’s New Blue Democrat talk!
Time to end the tax-exempt status for all churches, big and small. Everybody pays because everybody plays, obviously. Non-political, my ass.
This would never happen. Obama would just veto the sidecar.
Look, Stupak already got most of what he wanted in the Nelson compromise. It’s a major reversal for reproductive freedom. He’s just looking to get a symbolic vote in the House affirming that a majority support even more restrictions on abortions, laying the groundwork for the next battle at some point in the future. You heard it here first.
I think that we’re missing a pretty BIG “political” point here. The post implies that the bishops want a sidecar bill to include the “Stupak Amendment”. They indicate that they would “fight to get 60 votes” IF “stupak” was included. Let’s explore this idea for a moment: Let’s say the House passes the Senate bill. This means that NOTHING ELSE NEEDS TO HAPPEN TO INSURE HCR will become the law!!..The next step SHOULD be a “reconciliation sidecar bill” which would preclude (via Byrd Amendment)any abortion language adjustment…Now let’s suppose that, instead of going with the “reconciliation sidecar”, the Bishops push dems to propose a “FULL sidecar bill” (requires 60 votes) WITH “Stupak language” included. Since the pro-lifers hate “Stupak”; let’s also suppose that the Dems make the “full sidecar” MORE acceptable by including the house version of the public option. The House and Senate would have to vote for this. In essence the Republicans will KNOW that the Senate HCR will be law (due to House passage) so they’re forced to vote either againsts “Stupak” or FOR the “full sidecar bill”. The politico hot-potato (abortion) will now reside in the GOP corner. If they reject the sidecar, they’re “rejecting” “Stupak”. In that case, the “reconciliation” sidecar bill can then be introduced. The GOP will then be responsible for killing “Stupak” because it hates HCR (which will have already be guaranteed by both houses passing Senate bill). In THAT case, the religious community will blame the GOP for allowing “stupak” to be voted down. Remember, in the “reconciliation side car” bill, there can be NO changes to Senate bill on abortion language, so “Stupak” is dead! In that instance, the dems who support “stupak” are then “free” to vote for the “reconciliation sidecar” because they’ve brought cover with the rejection of the “full sidecar” by all of the GOP congress members who’ve voted to reject “Stupak” because they could not “vote for” HCR. Remember how the bishops pressured the GOP to support the original “Stupak Amendement”?…That pressure will be back—in full force. The dems would be in a “win win” situation. Either the Senate bill is past WITH “Stupak” and WITH THE PUBLIC OPTION (moving very close to House version of HCR)…or…the Senate bill bill is augmented with reconciliation sidecar and Stupak returns to the back-bench.
They can’t even keep their own skirts clean. Such hypocrites.
I’d also recommend Sarah Vowell’s “Wordy Shipmates” as a decent insight into the Puritan relationship with the “papists”.
Let’s just face the facts that the Stupak language was not written by little Bart Stupak. It was written by the top lawyers working for the RC and the Right to Life legal advisory gang, and they probably have five votes on the current Supreme Court who have agreed informally that it more or less passes muster with them. We don’t want to buy into that trap.
It may seem that Nelson is similar to Stupak, but it isn’t. Yes the two check thingie is extra work for those who want Abortion Insurance Coverage, but if women make an issue of this — and come back with an amendment on another bill (please not this one) requiring men to write an extra check if they want Viagra covered in their Drug Plan (I am being a little ironic here) perhaps that little fig leaf can eventually get knocked out of the insurance regulations.
What really concerns me most is the need to get pro-choice women to organize more effectively so these types of crisis stop occuring. I am not at all interested in depending on Catholic Bishops — or any other sort of clergy to guarentee basic health care for the poor — or any other economic class. Pro-choice women’s groups need to take up the challenge to make certain all reproductive choices are available and affordable, and yes, covered by insurance. The one thing national women’s right to choice groups did that was smart was to buy the license rights to RU486, work with a Chinese manufacturer to produce the medication, and then create a private list of OB/GYN Docs willing to prescribe and supervise its use. This prevents the other crowd from boycotting a major US Pharm house, and it keeps their fingers out of any listing of who sought RU486. Another smart move was to work on getting Plan B on the over the counter market, though in many parts of the country, the drug stores have been coerced into not stocking it, and we still have Hillary Clinton’s damn Conscience Clause on the books, meaning one might have to drive hundreds of miles to buy it. (I wish Planned Parenthood would start selling it on the internet, and advertising, and work out total national coverage for timely delivery in a plain brown wrapper.) In many rural areas of Minnesota people have to drive 60 miles to, and 60 miles from any Pharmacy for prescriptions — small town drug stores are an endangered artifact.
As to the Catholic Hospitals — many are actually going out of business. Many of them were owned and operated by Orders of Nursing Sisters, and they have few younger recruits these days, and the majority of their members are in retirement. They can’t operate anymore depending on religious nursing sisters to supervise and provide bedside nursing care. They have not had the money to invest in the expensive high tech medical world, CAT Scans and all that…and with the restrictions placed on reproductive proceedures (not just abortion) many have merged or joined joint operating agreements, and in the process just totally eliminated their OBGYN service. The Catholic Hospital near me has come to specialize in in-patient drug treatment for teens, with an elaborate out-patient aftercare program. It pays, and other nearby hospitals were willing to expand their OBGYN services, and send the teen drug users to the RC Hospital. It quietly kept the peace. Somehow the nuns who owned the hospital were able to find a nice bi-partisian way of splitting the theological difference with the Lutheran Hospital just down the Avenue. The Lutherans do babies and other OBGYN stuff, the Catholics do teen drug users.
And by the way — the incentive for getting to this agreement was marvelous. The sub-section of the Minnesota Medical Association — the AMA State Chapter — did a very detailed study of unnecessary Hysterotomies, and in the process discovered that Catholic Hospitals had an absurdly high rate of these unnecessary surgeries. It was being used in RC Hospitals as a back-handed form of Birth Control. They made their results semi-public within the medical professional circles, and they made damn sure that both insurance companies and public payers (such as Medicade and our State Legislators who appropriate Medicade Money) knew about their results and how much such a gross form of Birth Control was costing the state as well as private insurance policy holders. No one wanted that debated in public — so arrangements were made. By the way, the unnecessary surgery study was done all over the country, and in some states it was leverage.
Yes.
Enough.
I don’t want the government or the Catholic Church getting between me and my doctor.
NO, NO, NO!
What are they going to threaten, to throw them out of the Catholic Church?
Seems they’ve taken the generosity of the Dem leadership as some kind of softness they can take advantage of.
I don’t believe it’s that at all. I think the Dems simply wanted to accomodate them to make the final legislation as good as possible.
I agree with kgb999 that it’s not acceptable as a reconciliation issue.
Dems have tried two different ways (House & Senate) to make nice with the pro-lifers and they should take it as just that. We’re done with this issue. Now there’s just a little corrupt vote-buying I suppose and then the vote on the bill, reconciliation and voting again on that.
If the Church persists in meddling in politics then they should also prepare themselves for the rough and tumble that politicians have to deal with — and that includes being taxed and having all their troubles exposed.
Let’s get real, as much as I hate to say it Obama is NOT on our side. He has stood up for nothing Progressive and isn’t going to.
Race to the top?? No way. The race is to end Public Education in this country, ESPECIALLY in poor communities. I have to salute the San Diego Unified School District. They are also in a terrrible budget crunch but they refused to compete in this “race to the bottom” contest and are taking a lot of flak for not participating.
More of us need to stand up for education as the students in Calif. have done this past week. If Public Education goes down so does our democracy. We need to end this so-called “charter school” scam and demand that they re-build our Public School System.
I agree. The Catholic Church (in the US) was a very different church than it is now. It was the Church of Pope John XXIII and the ecumenical council. It had clergy that were involved in the anti-war effort and some that walked alongside Civil Rights marchers.
Today’s church is entirely different. It has taken a turn to the extreme right. It seems as if nothing is more important than imposing their abortion views on the entire country. Our country was founded on the concept of “Separation of Church and State” because Washington, Jefferson, etc. had seen the bloody wars that result from mixing government and religion. This separation allows us all to practice whatever religion we want as long as we don’t hurt other people. To me this is one of the most important foundations of our country.
Today’s Catholic Church seems hell-bent on destroying this concept. The Church does NOT belong in politics. It is destructive to our country and to the Church. Any church that engages in this should immediately lose it’s tax
exemption.
Don’t give them any more ideas.
Two days late, but I wanted to correct my error: Allbritton Communications owns the ABC affiliate in Washington, D.C., as well as ABC affiliates in several other broadcast markets. Not “Annenberg.” My mistake. My opinion regarding Allbritton’s politics remains, that they are a right-wing outfit. I think Annenberg was, too, in his time, but that’s a separate issue.