Some movement since I last updated:
Dan Maffei and Bill Owens, two central New York Congressmen who voted yes last time, are undecided.
Larry Kissell is a confirmed no.
According to the Hill, Marion Berry is a member of the Stupak 12 (which I have as a baker’s dozen), and Ike Skelton is a definite no.
So if you add all that up, you get 194 yes votes and 191 no votes. I’ll show my work:
I’m assuming that all Republicans save Joseph Cao are a no, and all Democrats who voted yes before who haven’t definitively come out as a maybe are still a yes.
There were 39 Democratic No votes before. One of them was Parker Griffith, now a Republican, and one of them was Eric Massa, now the saltiest salt not in Congress. In addition, three other Democrats who voted yes last time (Wexler, Murtha, and Abercrombie) have either resigned or died.
Of the 37 remaining Democratic No votes, we have 14 definite nos (I’ve documented all of these with a link somewhere on the site in the past):
Bobby Bright, Mike McIntyre, Stephanie Herseth Sandlin, Walt Minnick, Artur Davis, Chet Edwards, Frank Kratovil, Mike Ross, Dan Boren, Gene Taylor, Larry Kissell, Dennis Kucinich, Collin Peterson, Ike Skelton
That leaves 23 potential flippers, though only 13 have made noises in that direction so far:
Jason Altmire, Bart Gordon, Glenn Nye, Brian Baird, John Tanner, Rick Boucher, Allen Boyd, John Boccieri, Suzanne Kosmas, Betsy Markey, John Adler, Mike McMahon, Scott Murphy.
The other 10 haven’t said boo. They are:
Travis Childers, Harry Teague, Lincoln Davis, Heath Shuler, John Barrow, Jim Marshall, Tim Holden, Charlie Melancon, Jim Matheson, Ben Chandler
In addition, there are the Stupak 13, who were all yes votes last time:
Bart Stupak, Jerry Costello, Charlie Wilson, Kathy Dahlkemper, Joe Donnelly, Joseph Cao, Steve Driehaus, Brad Ellsworth, Marion Berry, Marcy Kaptur, Dale Kildee, Dan Lipinski, James Oberstar.
Kildee has said he’s not in the bloc, but he was quoted in the Politico “fix it in reconciliation” article as someone with concerns about the abortion language.
Then there are 10 other former Yes votes who have expressed concerns, though none are an out-and-out no yet:
Mike Arcuri, Zack Space, Chris Carney, Mike Doyle, Paul Kanjorski, Ann Kirkpatrick, Alan Mollohan, Nick Rahall, Dan Maffei, Bill Owens.
Some of those may have something to do with the abortion language, but I haven’t added them to the Stupak bloc yet.
If you add up those numbers, you get 194 confirmed yes, 191 confirmed no, with the rest in the middle. Obviously, this is fluid right now, especially in advance of actual bill language. But you can see why the leadership is still talking to Stupak. The votes are very hard to find without his bloc.
UPDATE: The Hill has John Spratt as moving from Yes to Undecided, so if you add that, it’s down to 193-191. A lot of these “undecideds” are just using the vote as leverage, so it’s hard to get an accurate count.



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Gitmo bound?
You’ve done a lot of work and this is all very interesting but it doesn’t matter anymore. This will pass and the democratic wing of the democratic party will be destroyed. Just as they intended.
anyone know where Chellie Pingree stands?
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen David Dayen and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
My question is simple, if the Senate acts first and passes “fixes” before the House passes the Senate version, how hard will it be for Pelosi ta get the votes needed…from Stupid’s caucus or anywhere else?
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THIS IS ALL BULLSHIT ANYWAY!!
Citizen oldhippiejan:
If this monster passes, the only “Democratic” thing that gets politically destroyed is Obama…the Democratic Party will survive and ultimately thrive but without Obama…and he knows it.
I agree that this sham of a Health Care bill will pass.
The House Dems are trying to drag the process out, to keep progressives from launching primary challenges against them. Nancy Pelosi and Dem Leadership knows that the base will attack any dem that votes for this sham.
However, what Progressives have got to understand and understand quickly is that Dem Party was hijacked by Neo-lieberals and elites in an attempt to keep PROGRESSIVE out of the White House.
Progressive must treat the current White House, just like they treated the Bush White House.
The GOP is still in shambles, the GOP elites fear that Tea Party candidates will win and attack the status quo with vengence, so now they have a catch 22.
The STATUS QUO is going to be attack, this is a given, now the elites are trying to minimize the damage.
Maybe it isn’t such a bad thing if this thing fails, lousy health care policy certainly isn’t going anywhere soon. Americans have yet to grasp that every OECD country has cheaper, and in most cases superior, health care. I want the same system every Finn has had for decades.
One plan. One card. All in. Including dental.
Does anyone know what “you must tag your post” means and how to do it? I’m trying to post a diary.
Thanks!
The Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party will only lose this battle. The DLCers will lose big in the general this fall. 1994 Redux.
Put in some kind of descriptive term that sums up the topic of your post–there should be a field for it.
The last thing on the page where you write your diary is a section called “Tags.” Tags are basically search terms that are related to your diary topic. For example, if your diary is about the president’s hcr speech yesterday, your tags could be: obama, health, reform, public option. If your diary is about Jim Bunning and the GOP, possible tags could be: Bunning, gop, idiot, moron, unamerican.
anyway, you have to put at least one word in the tags field for the diary to get published.
Not bad
Yay! Loo Hoo is writing a diary… *taps fingers in anticipation*
Think I figured it out.
Thanks guys!
I wish I shared your optimism, but sadly if Obama is defeated there is a whole new cadre of corporate fascists to take his place. This is what both parties consist of going back at least 70 years. If anyone attempts to interfere with this pre-arranged order, they are first marginalized by the corporate media, then cannibalized by their own party.
This country was founded on the evils of slavery and genocide of Native Americans. It will die from rampant uncontrolled greed and oppression.
Says it all!
“It will die from rampant uncontrolled greed and oppression.”
oldhippiejean, 3/9/10
It’s already started oldhippiejean, but only a few Americans have the courage to admit it. Our elected officials don’t, our educational systems don’t and those fixated with making us a “christian nation” certainly don’t.
By 2025 – I’ll be dead a gone by then – the middle class will be a fond memory just like the mythical rugged, self sustaining pioneer of the 19th century is today.
In 2025 most of America will look like Mexico City does today – 10% bloated rich, 10% scrathing out a modest living and 80% at or below the poverty line.
America will be #1 alright – The #1 failed political experiment of the second millenia…
What you just said is true, but very sad!
With our lack of gun laws, I am thinking the USA will look more like MAD MAX
It is going to be a fast and bumpy ride to the bottom
Precisely why I encourage my kids and grandkids to learn foreign languages, study hard and consider making a home abroad.
The educational system consists largely of water carriers for elected officials, all the way down to the people that select curriculm. The fables of old must be kept alive. Those obsessed with making this a “christian nation” are part of the problem and don’t believe in separation of church, regardless of what the Constitution says.
By 2025 I too will be gone, but I am sickened at the thought of the world in which my son will spend his golden years and how my grand-daughter will survive along with her children. I’m afraid a feudal system is all that will be left for her.
The left has adopt for itself several well thought out goals that comport with reality and are true to its principles.
First it must be clear as to the root causes of the problems facing the country which begin with the government’s role in the massive giveaways of public money to private corporations and other private concerns. It must be relentless in pushing this theme home to the public at large.
Then it must point out tirelessly that most politicians are demonstrably anti-public and pro-corporate sell outs and therefore an integral part of the problem, chief among them Obama, most Democrats and all of the right wing reactionaries.
Lastly it must identify candidates who have shown that they understand the source of the problems and who have advocated for real solutions that are focused on eliminating these massive government giveaways. Principal among these is Dennis Kucinich.
The left and the public at large has precious few allies and none better than Kucinich and we should lend him our unswerving support, financial and otherwise. We should start as of now to support his candidacy to unseat Obama. He should be elevated with our to a position of being able to influence public policy and to distinguish his views in stark contrast with the corrupt and servile policies of the reviled Obama.
Space was in the Stupak bloc…at least he voted yes on Stupak-Pitts and yes on the House bill. Now he has “concerns” about the final bill and is waiting.
And, if your diary is about the president’s hcr speech, you could also add tags like “bullshit,” “sell-out,” “corporate whore,” “fucking the Progressives,” “fucking r*****s” — you get the picture.
Good luck to you, and thanks for posting.
How fine a mess is this that these are our choices: the bill gets changed to accommodate Stupak and passes [it's even SHITTIER than it is now] or we root for the Stupaks and Republicans to kill this monster.
I’ve been voting Democratic since 1968, and I’ve NEVER seen such a bunch of incompetent fools, particularly including the president. It’s disgusting, and, like several above, I grieve for what my “country” will be like for my children. Neither seems particularly inclined to flee, but I sure think it’s the best option for them.
Do we have a list somewhere of the Stupak Stupids? As I recall, Dave Obey[D-WI] was one who voted with Stupak. [I was aghast.] I can’t imagine his “no” vote holding.
I’m curious who the “others” are, and what their stories might be.
“Also” how are “present” votes counted? Could the Dems [the "Bad Dems"] craft a plan whereby they allow the Stupak Stupids to vote “present” and the bill passes without them, or could they apply this strategy to some other essential group?
It’s clear that for Rahm & Obama [and Hoyer, Reid & Pelosi],it’s all about getting “votes” and a “win” for Obama, and not at all about what’s IN the bill.
the stupak dozen
Solomon Ortiz (D-TX) (202) 225-7742
Jerry Costello (D-IL) (202) 225-5661
James Oberstar (D-MN) (202) 225-6211
Steve Driehaus (D-OH) (202) 225-2216
Marcy Kaptur (D-OH) (202) 225-4146
Paul Kanjorski (D-PA) (202) 225-6511
Kathleen Dahlkemper (D-PA) (202) 225-5406
Joe Donnelly (D-IN) (202) 225-3915
Brad Ellsworth (D-IN) (202) 225-4636
Dan Lipinski (D-IL) (202) 225-5701
Charlie Wilson (D-OH) (202) 225-5705
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/3/8/844153/-Are-they-REALLY-prepared-to-take-responsibility
Solomon Ortiz (D-TX) (202) 225-7742
Jerry Costello (D-IL) (202) 225-5661
James Oberstar (D-MN) (202) 225-6211
Steve Driehaus (D-OH) (202) 225-2216
Marcy Kaptur (D-OH) (202) 225-4146
Paul Kanjorski (D-PA) (202) 225-6511
Kathleen Dahlkemper (D-PA) (202) 225-5406
Joe Donnelly (D-IN) (202) 225-3915
Brad Ellsworth (D-IN) (202) 225-4636
Dan Lipinski (D-IL) (202) 225-5701
Charlie Wilson (D-OH) (202) 225-5705
The ideas that progressives have (which most, if not all, are very good ideas) have now shown to be totally disregarded by the mainstream dems and MSM. My guess as to why this has happened is primarily money and lobbyists.
Could we as progressives counter this by contributing our own money to back candidates (which FDL has done, and is doing, a great job) and also forming our own lobbyist program (which to date I have not seen). By the way, our lobbyist program has the advantage of having voters sign a petition backing up the lobbyist agenda and with the electorate being pretty evenly spilt, a couple of thousand signatures could possibly sway a vote. (I am ASSUMING that corporations do not have voter signatures as part of their lobbying effort, only a lot of money and some polling numbers which can vary day to day – true voter signed sheets, backing up the progressive lobbyist efforts, could be a lot more convincing).
Food for thought.
The Stupak crowd with be appeased (goodbye women’s rights). The Progressives will be ditched (a few will vote “yes” after being sweet-talked/intimidated by the tweedle dee/dum tag-team of Obama and Rahm Emmanuel) and we will get Obamarahmacare.
Egg, this is the big mistake the entire venture made to begin.
The House should have had long and big hearings on the health systems in other countries. Should have brought in doctors, nurses, administrators from France, Finland, Germany, etc. to testify and get it on the 6 pm news. For WEEKS.
THEN, put a bill together.
They did none of that. So, they have no public support; surprise!
Shoot this down. Begin again. Hold the hearings. Bring the public along. Pass something good.
No, this is getting further away, not closer.
You will only get what you want by blowing this bill apart.
THEN, begin again quickly with the real intention to reform.
This is heading for a real, true disaster.
Rahmbanacare would be a totally better name. If we’re going to have crappy HCR that makes the private health insurance companies even more profitable, and cost dozens of Democratic seats in Congress, *at least* we can get a cool name for it. Viva la Rahmbanacare!
We compiled a table (with links showing sources for all vote information) for all House Dems who voted “no” earlier and those who are now wavering who were previously “yes” votes.
Our tally is somewhat different than yours (196 yes, 205 no, 30 undecided), but as you mention, this is all very fluid and some are using their vote for leverage (making it even harder to get an accurate count).
If you are interested, our work can be found here.