My last whip count can be found here. Since then, in the absence of language, we’ve had few changes:
• Charlie Melancon, a Blue Dog who is leaving the House for an ill-fated Senate run against David Vitter, is a no on the bill, according to my sources. He has criticized the comprehensive approach as recently as a week ago, and he voted against the House bill previously, so this is no surprise. (UPDATE: more corroborating information. Melancon’s a no.)
• As I mentioned earlier today, Dale Kildee left the Stupak bloc and flipped to yes on the bill.
• Joe Donnelly confirmed himself as a member of the Stupak bloc.
• I’m going to put Solomon Ortiz and Baron Hill in the “undecided” camp. They haven’t made any public statements, but they are being publicly targeted by both sides and are rumored to be part of the Stupak bloc.
Put that all together, and you’re at 191 yes, 195 no. I’ll break down the numbers on the flip. But first, there’s this important update, via Jon Walker.
Senate Republicans have basically signaled that they will not play ball on any attempt to use reconciliation to change the abortion language. That’s the meaning of their letter to Harry Reid, pledging to unite to block any effort to waive a point of order on the Byrd rule:
In that regard, to endeavor to ensure that the reconciliation process is not used to fast-track an unpopular bill through Congress, we wish to inform you that we will oppose efforts to waive the so-called Byrd Rule during Senate consideration of any reconciliation bill concerning health reform. The Byrd Rule, as you know, was created by Senator Byrd to ensure that reconciliation bills were not used to enact policy changes, the primary purpose of which is not specifically related to the federal budget. As it takes 60 votes to waive the Byrd Rule, we can ensure that any provision that trips the Byrd Rule will be stripped from the bill, which will require that the bill be sent back to the House for further consideration and additional votes.
As you may know, the Catholic bishops floated a plan to waive points of order for changes to the abortion language. Senate GOPers are basically proclaiming that strategy dead. And Stupak himself has dismissed the idea a “third bill” after health care is completed, because he would lose all his leverage over the bill at that point.
This does effectively make the Stupak dilemma unsolvable. The language cannot change from the Senate language, essentially, and Stupak won’t go for that. The House will have to go around Stupak, because they can’t go through him. The path to passage just got a lot harder, because Democrats would basically have to retain every non-Stupak bloc Yes vote and pick up around 10-12 former No votes, a herculean task to say the least.
Details on the whip count on the flip:
Definite YES:
191 Democrats.
Definite NO:
177 Republicans.
Definite NO:
18 Democrats.
17 Democrats who voted No in November:
Bobby Bright, Mike McIntyre, Stephanie Herseth Sandlin, Walt Minnick, Artur Davis, Chet Edwards, Frank Kratovil, Mike Ross, Dan Boren, Gene Taylor, Larry Kissell, Dennis Kucinich, Collin Peterson, Ike Skelton, Jim Marshall, Mike McMahon, Charlie Melancon.
1 Democrat who voted Yes in November:
Mike Arcuri.
21 potential Democratic No-Yes flip votes
14 possible:
Jason Altmire, Bart Gordon, Glenn Nye, Brian Baird, John Tanner, Rick Boucher, Allen Boyd, John Boccieri, Suzanne Kosmas, Betsy Markey, John Adler, Scott Murphy, Lincoln Davis, Jim Matheson.
6 less possible:
Travis Childers, Harry Teague, Heath Shuler (severe lean no), John Barrow, Tim Holden, Ben Chandler.
25 potential Yes-No flip votes:
11 Stupak bloc:
Bart Stupak, Jerry Costello, Charlie Wilson, Kathy Dahlkemper, Joe Donnelly, Joseph Cao (R), Steve Driehaus, Brad Ellsworth, Marion Berry, Marcy Kaptur, Dan Lipinski.
13 other wary Democrats:
Zack Space, Chris Carney, Mike Doyle, Paul Kanjorski, Ann Kirkpatrick, Alan Mollohan, Nick Rahall, Dan Maffei, Bill Owens, John Spratt, Dennis Cardoza, James Oberstar, Baron Hill, Solomon Ortiz.



52 Comments


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It’s about JOBS STUPAK!!! Bringing up abortion in the health debate is only there to cause fights and division to keep us from getting what needs to be done, done. This whole health care thing is about jobs jobs jobs, that’s why obama is pushing for this hard. We conservatives, on the other hand, have framed the debate in a manner that has crippled our ability to see it for what republicans in the past would have seen it. We are all in it together, and reform is a path to new jobs, medical service, providers and even insurers – and they can’t be off-shored.
http://bit.ly/brAKLJ
[modnote - one blogwhore per day, thank you.]
How fitting that the atrocious Senate/Obama bill – itself an example of the total dysfunction of the national government due to corruption by deep-pocketed corporate interests – will likely be killed off by another example of the total dysfunction of the national government – the idiotic and backwards, regressive controversy surrounding reproductive freedom.
How fitting, indeed.
Stupak will be rewarded by Obama for his efforts.
Is it dead yet?
Jane or anyone else who might have an idea as to this question – what is your opinion of the so called Slaughter Solution ? Desperation or could this actually fly ? And even if the House was to vote on a rule in lieu of actually voting on the Senate Bill – which pursuant to the Slaughter Solution is deemed to be as if the Senate Bill had been voted on and presumably passed , how does this address the abortion problem of the Stupak bloc ? Deeming the Senate Bill to be passed without voting on it doesn’t remove the objectionable Senate language from the Senate Bill – and under what set of circumstances would the Senate pass Stupak friendly language in whatever fixer Bill is hatched by the House Dems ? It seems this is merely a vehicle for the House to demonstrate that the Senate won’t play ball and thus they are to blame if HC fails this time.
CONGRATS on da BEES
GOOD MAMABEE
I am inordinately proud of something that had nothing to do with me. Thank you very much. I luv me my honey bees.
I can’t get over the transformation of DailyKos and MSNBC on the Senate health care reform bill. For months I have listened to Ed Schultz and Rachel Maddow trash the Senate and it’s bill…and now, it’s like someone flipped a switch!
Schultz in particular, has turned completely. He was urging his viewers today to call Rep Kucinich’s office and urge him to vote “yes” on the Senate bill.
Unbelievable…
But it won’t be the Stupak block that gets badmouthed in the media, it will be the progressives who won’t sign onto insurance welfare. Fine. Blame them. I call that congratulations.
hope to be a BEEMOMMA this year too
Something I have just a glimmer of. My guess is they think that if there is no HCR bill, then the libruls have lost it for all time.
OTOH, to make an analogy, I think that if you believe ‘my country right or wrong’ is a sure way of getting a wrong country. Ditto HCR. Instead of HCR right or wrong, judge the actual bill on its actual merits.
Hard for people to do who are dedicated to causes.
yup
dedicated to profit$ im afraid
Sooo kewl. It is one of the most life-affirming things I’ve ever done. I don’t even know what would be next. Maybe chickens for eggs. But there are few nonplants who produce something useful for humans as a byproduct of their normal lives, and are not consumed themselves in the process.
O’Donnell just had Bill Maher on, and Maher kind of trashed the bill; O’Donnell played along as if he hadn’t just spun it the other way the night before. I’m sure now he’ll have to have Ezra or somebody on to make up for that. Ditto Rachel; she had Michael Moore on and didn’t object to him basically trashing the bill either. I felt like they were throwing us a bone to keep us tuning in.
Ambassorship to Monaco.
Oh, and sadlyyes, my beekeeper still thinks my hive is gonna swarm, so if I catch it in the act, I might have 2 hives this year. Fingers crossed.
Or to the Holy See. Good riddance.
I’m glad others have noticed this. They’re talking to Pat Buchanan every five minutes, which always means they’re triyng to spin something.
Then there’s the nonstop smearing of Eric Massa. This is quintessential Obama.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen David Dayen and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
The “Stupid Block” was all struttin’ and profilin’, there ain’t no “there” there. Once the reconcilliation package is put together with a mechanism to send the reconcilliation “fixes” to the House before the House votes on the underlyin bill, the Stupid Amendment will vanish and there’ll be nuthin left but the smell of Bart’s brain farts.
The fight is now to keep the heat on in the House of Representatives to force a “Christmas tree” reconcilliation fix…my preference is a series of discreet bills that can be easily understood. Included would be a public option with removal of the mandate or a series of stand alone bills that follow the map of what Kucinich put together on TV 2 days ago as well as a student loan bill and a jobs and infrastructure bill. A package like this would likely get every single Democratic vote in the House and prolly a whole bunch of fascist Republican votes.
I don’t think we have even a outline of what’s gunna be in the Senate “fix” but abortion ain’t gunna be a problem…and if I’m right, then there’s nuthin holdin’ back a public option in the reconcilliation fix.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, COWARDS ONLY WIN IF YOU LET ‘EM!!!
Monaco would be the cushiest. Sea breezes off the Mediterranean. Stunning landscape. Great food. A royal family.
This whole focus on Dennis Kucinich is palpably offensive. This was the third night in a row lawrence o’donnell threw him under the bus. This time with Lynne Woosley. She didn’t take the bait and said Dennis was one vote, and no one mentions Raul Grijalva, also a No vote. Fine by me let the stupackers sink this. Tweety can cry a catholic river about the whole thing, but the meme from mrs. greenspan, todd, dancin dave gregory, buchanan, joe/mika, puke russert and tweety, it is the ‘left’.
After markos jumped the shark last night, the kool aid lit up.
This bill should fail under the hubris of ‘mr. change you can believe in’ cutting deals with Pharma, selling America to the insurance companies, giving money at 0% interest to the banksters that imploded the economy of the world, no accountability for massive fraud, theft, by banksters, and war crimes by bushco/cheney.
Let alone continuing their policies.
This is to give the President a ‘win’?
One of the things he lost is my second vote.
I agree they are throwing their viewers a Bone.
I am pretty sure that Ed, Rachel, and the other MSNBC talking heads know who their viewers are, attacking,lying, to their viewers like Obama does the Dem Base is probably not a good way to get ratings.
One way to sure up your Liberal Credentials is to invite Michael Moore and Bill Maher on to your shows.
The actions of Ed, Rachel this week are making Jesse Ventura statements about MSNBC look very crediable.
goody!…they so cute…forgot bought ya a cool lapel pin,a golden honeybee
im done with all of em…Turner Classic Movies period
buncha old farts imo
I dont know why you are cheer leading for HCR to fail because HCR is viewed by many people as being a “liberal” cause so if this “liberal cause” fails and damages the democratic then it will be a very very long time until the party tries to act progressive again.
Because if it failes we will get a utter butt whipping in Nov which will just push the democratic party farther to the right than it already is.
If HCR reform dies now, it will be dead for another 15-20 years before anyone else tries to even touch it with a 10 foot pole. If we kill HCR the most that we will see in the reform department is a tort reform bill.
The people at FDL needs to decided if they would rather take a bullet in the fatty part of your gut and hope that you live through it or if you’d rather take that bullet between your eyes.
Brave man you are, keeping swarming bees around. You keep the bees, send ME the honey, ‘k?
It’s not our responsibility to protect the Democratic Party from itself. If the Democratic Party chooses to represent us on issues like health care reform, then we will tend to support the Party. If the Party abuses us on issues like health care reform – like making lots of campaign promises to us and then breaking those promises completely upon election, and attacking our agenda and interests – then it is not our responsibility to support the Party because otherwise it is in trouble.
The Democrats have failed completely in 2009 and so far in 2010 to do anything other than:
1) Heap trillions dollars at the feet of bankers.
2) Attempt to heap huge sums of money at the feet of the insurance and pharmaceutical cartels.
3) Fail to pass a meaningful jobs bill – the 18 billion dollar chump change piece of shit that just cleared the Congress is a cruel joke.
4) Fail to pass a sufficient stimulus bill.
The Democrats have dug their own electoral grave. They have spectacularly failed to pass any legislation that hugely benefits the working population of the country without question, during a historic economic crash. They have also spectacularly succeeded in giving the richest members of society huge sums of money, even as wealth inequality continues to skyrocket.
And what can the Party muster when it comes time to assign blame for the failure of their wretched health care “reform” legislation which is about health insurance and pharmaceutical cartel profits first and foremost?
That’s right! Here we go again! They pick a token liberal, and make it all out to be his fucking fault completely. If only Dennis-so-and-so had voted for the bill. If only Ralph-so-and-so hadn’t run. If only Those Damn Liberals would just shut up, vote for us, support us, give us their money and their blessing, and then take it in the shorts in return, everything would be fine.
This game they play probably won’t work too much longer. People aren’t going to get angry at Dennis Kucinich if the Senate bill is not made law. The Senate bill is largely unpopular anyway. Most people didn’t want it and if the Democrats want to pretend that the electoral disaster they have created for themselves as a result of their obeisance to their corporate sponsors and plutocratic golf buddies is the fault of Those Damn Liberals, not the fact that people in general are alienated from Washington DC and the two-party status quo which works against them, then the Democrats are only fooling themselves.
Great Post!
thanks
The Democratic Party is going to have accept and understand that the people whom their “leadership” derisively refers to as “the far left”, “liberal extremists”, etc., are a substantial component of their party’s voter and funding grassroots base. The Party’s “leadership” has for some time operated under the delusion that it is entitled to having such a base that it can abuse, ignore, and walk all over forever, each even-numbered year expecting our votes, our money, our time, our energy, our accolades to their various whorish candidates and public figureheads.
This is suicide for any faction in any political system, anywhere, anytime. Relying on people whom you abuse and forsake to be a crucial and core constituent of your ability to win elections or otherwise have power is stupid.
If the Democrats want to play to parts of the Republican voter base, then let them. If the Democrats want to forsake the well-being of everyone in the country who is not rich – 95% or more of the population – and in instead pursue public policy disasters like the financial de-regulation of the 1990′s, or NAFTA and “free” trade pacts, or lavish and condition-free bank bailouts, or health care “reform” that is about making Aetna and Eli Lilly executives awesomely richer at cost to everyone else, or radical corporatism in general, then let them. But they should not continue to believe that forever, liberals are going to continue to back them. The Democrats started getting with murder with us during the Clinton years, that was nearly 20 years ago. Their game plan has a life span and its already looking somewhat geriatric.
Maybe Rahm and Barry should ask Creigh Deeds how taking progressives for granted works out in November.
Would have been a lot easier if they had pared down their objectives and avoided the power grab. There are a lot of viable suggestions to make the system better. Obama’s ego insisted on pursuing the most over-handed in-your-face package possible. Honestly, the reason we don’t have change is because of ego, not substance. Why not pass a bill on the items everyone agrees on? Why not test the House or Senate Plan in a state or two before jumping in face first?
It’s not clear to me why a consortium of states couldn’t start their own non-profit healthcare organization. A rough guess is that about 30 states would be inclined to participate, including all the big ones- California, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, all of New England….
What is the obstacle to such an idea? If it worked, the reluctant states would soon get on board, and we’d have national healthcare, that wasn’t administrated by the federal government.
No, actually the thing will fail because it’s neither bold nor ambitious enough. If he’d insisted on Public Option — a compromise in itself — he would have got it. But instead, Obama allowed the Democrats to compromise with themselves over and over with no gain in votes.
It’s a failed policy. And it’s failed politics too.
Eric Massa has lots to be smeared with, of his own making.
Did you WATCH the Beck hour?
Massa is a raging loon, and insane as much as he’s inane.
A groping tickler? Please, what a sick fuck he seems to be.
Dale Kildee told a Catholic organization that he was misquoted by Roll Call and he stated that he never said he was a yes vote on the bill.
http://www.catholicvoteaction.org/americanpapist/index.php?p=1893
“One of the things he lost is my second vote.”
Welcome to the club! *G*
Obama and Rahm mission was to destroy the progressive movement.
Let us take the Blinders off, Obama is not this stupid, his policies are so off base, that it is time for progressives to realize, Obama is a Trojan Horse develop by the elite to keep Progressives out of power.
Welcome to the HOPE a DOPE, by Barack Obama
It is a simple plan, demoralize the progressive base by talking like a progressive and governing like a republican
The above action will result in Dems getting killed in the 2010 mid terms.
(A smart Democrat would have only talk about Jobs for last 12 months, this is only issue in the USA, Obama makes Health Care an issue in the middle of a depression? Obama is not this dumb, we progressive have been had)
Obama the Trojan Horse runs against his friends the republicans in 2011. (this is the Clinton Game Plan, the elites want to keep progressives out of the white house, so they create these trojan horses to destroy the progressive base.)
It does not take BRAIN SURGEON to realize the only issue in the USA in 2009 was JOBS! Guess what the only issue in the USA in 2010? Jobs!
Progressive SHOULD BE PISSED for being played as FOOLS
So called prog tv pundits, even on cable, even on MSNBC, are bought and sold as much as our elected offals are.
They only have SO much leash and rope to go prog galt with, then, the chain’s jerked and they are back to reporting the centrist status quo line.
Didn’t Rahm send you the new talking points?
Those are last months.
Obama and Rahm’s mission is to make life better for the corporate interests that bought them.
Progs are but a chipped cog in their wheel, a stone on the path.
The goal is NOT progs, it’s acquisition thru legislation.
So, I disagree with your posit.
Ah yes we all must become corporate serfs in order to protect the Democratic Party from itself. Having the IRS working on behalf of the insurance companies is fascism – Mussolini is probably applauding from his grave over the mandate to buy products from businesses.
“My guess is they think that if there is no HCR bill, then the libruls have lost it for all time”
In time the Health Insurance Cos will fail, becuase the Medical Providers continue to gouge, more and more will drop insurance as prices rise, and the uninsured will increase to 100 million.
AS an aside:
My recommendation to a collegue who faces $200,000 for an operation on his daughter, who is having seizures, is to go ahead, do the proceedures necessary, and then refuse to pay as the contract to treat his gravely ill daughter was entered into under duress, and is thus voidable.
How many queen cells have you in the brood chamber? If you have a few, that’s when you know the hive will swarm. The first new queen hatches out & kills the other queen pupa.
Passage of this into law will label it “brand” Democrat. It will be unpopular, wont cover all, take funding from Medicare, and add burdens to workers and over 55.
Let it die, the system is in a tail spin, it will have to be re-visited. Don’t take responsibility for this corporate give away.
we need a LOT of
“I welcome their hatred”
this bill and this nonsense has been good for my blog commenting – I’m so sick of it that I honestly hope they pass a bill turning the $100 printing presses over to AHIP – let’s just cut the bullshit and just cut to the chase.
rmm.
Thank you for writing this and Comment #29, You are not only “friendly,” but also very smart. These comments should be framed and sent to every legislator and wannabe legislator. Good on you.
Just another wierd Rethug. Recent conversions don’t count.
Seymour -
I’m going to print your two comments and hand them out on Sunday afternoon at the 36th Legislative District Democrat meeting in Seattle. Our LD has 1 of the highest voting turnouts every election – how long are my neighbors going to endure this cowpatch grassroots? We’re all supposed to stand around outside away from the decisions, out in the cold and and out in the dark, waiting for the insiders to come out and piss on us and crap on us and chew us up and use us up …
AND THEN GROW BACK to provide service all over again!
f’k them.
rmm.
Uh, actually Obama compromised with…himself.
Took single payer “off the tabloe” from the gitgo. Then compromised with himself on an almost ongoing basis…to reach out to Repubs or something.
I think he’s ended up just about where he wanted to be: A Senate bill out of Baucus’s committee, written by Baucus’s special aide who had been a Wellpoint VP for two years before coming back essentially write the bill, Baucus’s former chief of staff sent to the WH to be an asst chief of staff to Obama for…health insurance.
Yep, I actually saw it. First time I ever watched Beck. Funny though-who the fuck cares if Massa is a loon? Who cares if he’s gone around the bend, has cancer and acts weird? Does that some how affect my medical premiums? Does that have one damn thing to do with the fact that his actual main premise of the whole damn show-
the system is broken and nothing will change until there is campaign finance reform- actually be the ten thousand pound elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring???????????
But bread and circuses. YOU bought it. It’s a scam to keep you distracted. Again I ask-how does a no longer congressman’s words or actions affect my health care? Oh that’s right it doesn’t. But the endless compromises and caving by Obama and the “progessive” Dems DOES.