Obviously the bench is a little thin if they’re forcing this guy to walk the plank on this.

Is there a link to contribute to Schweikert’s campaign?

So, if I understand this correctly, the Democratic leadership has the votes to pass this pos in the House and they’re just negotiating with members to determine which ones will walk the plank so they can pass this bad joke on the American people.

That’s what it looks like.

And to think, they could have passed something decent instead and have coasted to victory in Nov…

This whole health insurance company welfare bill count reminds me of watching my dad die. I might have to just bow out of it for a while.

Haven’t rolled enough Stupaks…

Maybe they don’t!

Rocky Lizard is sure lashing the troops on this baby.

Perfectly understandable.

Yes. That would be a brilliant idea. Contribute to a Republican.

Jesus. You people….

Die Bill! Die! Die! Die!

Dayen, Hamsher: Huffington Post is announcing this afternoon 7 switch-ees from “no” to “yes” – a) were these Stupak bloc votes, and b) does the current whip count at FDL take these new “yes” votes into account?

(I really don’t look forward to the “messaging” campaign that is going to ensue if the monstrosity is passed – liberal web sites are going to be flooded with all manner of smarmy attempts to retroactively sell us the legislation.)

If this pos passes it’s going to be unbearable watching the peacock in the WH strut about. The biggest fraud ever marketed to the U.S. public.

Mitchell was NOT a “no” on the House bill. He was a Yes.

Probably a good idea, take care of your self Margaret. Sorry about your Dad.

Dday is out for the evening. I tried to do my best impression.

Oh I’ll still be around but don’t be surprised if I appear clueless about the latest count. ;-)

This being a Friday, here is a virtual glass of wine (your choice, since its virtual)!

*salud*

Hey sport, does it really matter who anyone contributes to?

The count is definately the most wearing, David’s a freakin hero.

: )

He’s done yeoman’s work on this. Stellar.

Have a sip of Seymour’s wine!

Cheers and Salud!

That was funny. :)

It was a surprise to see your name at the FDL News Desk. Always good to see you.

*Salute* (the virtual glass of wine proffered by Seymour and the one in hand raised)

chin chin!

That’s what I need. A sip of wine. I haven’t had alcohol in forever…

*slides some delicious virtual merlot over to peg*

So you know, it’s “Cin cin” (i.e. “Cent’ Anni”)

Personally I’m breaking out the popcorn. I was done with Obama in July 2008. I brought up the idea of a third party not long after. I do not like what has happened but I am not surprised by it either. Obama has consistently played down to my expectations. The Democratic party even somewhat below them. I expected nothing out of the Senate and no one there to come even remotely close to doing the right thing. I predicted House progressives would fold. But even I thought that there might be one or two who would stand firm. Not a one. Not a single blinking one. Rather than pick up even a couple common sense progressive ideas, the Democrats and Obama have shown themselves bound and determined to whore for corporations and enact a Republican agenda. Having been completely excluded and marginalized from the process, I intend to make some popcorn and watch the Democrats and Obama commit political suicide. The country doesn’t deserve it, but these guys don’t give a damn about anyone but themselves. They deserve every bit of what is going to happen to them in November.

This Sanders thing is making me sick…

Me either, but a glass of wine would do many of us some good.

How can you tell them apart. They’re all the same.

Ain’t that the truth.

Thanks flat! Hmmm….tastes like Zinfandel….

eli upstairs Who Made Obama Do It?

I am NOT drinking any f***ing Merlot!

Sideways is a great, funny movie – but I like Merlot!

What’s so ironic is that Stupak and co. can hold out for what they want and probably get it.. while the so called Progressives can’t band together and pressure for a public option or anything resembling. Shows what capitulating wimps they are. In retrospect, K’s vote either way would not have amounted to any game change for the bill. He was just scared into submission which makes him a gold card member of the wimp club.

They’re different.

Republicans openly support corporate profits over people and think corporate welfare is a fine idea.

Democrats pretend that they want to use the corporations for the good of the people, though whatever good the people get is really a distant second to making sure the corporate officers and board members are as happy as pigs in shit.

Isn’t that just for the Democratic primary?

That happens on the internet. Wild!

The Dems are just more subtle in their corruption, that’s all.

Me too!

I’m all for a down and dirty Pinot or Cab, but hey, sometimes a guy wants that blend.

This Sanders thing is making me sick…

You shouldn’t be. The reason no one in Washington takes Bernie seriously is because they know he always folds.

what did Sanders do?

I want to say Hi to the Kossaks here on recon duty. Try to keep up.

Dennis finally came close to making a difference… and folded.

So Democrats need 8 of 9 remaining leaners, yet passage is still guaranteed?

Speaking of wine (You Bunch of Winos You!!!) it’s time for the non-virtual variety, meaning the real varietal, or even, a REAL varietal (which means not Merlot!) or even Just Plain Rotted Grape Juice in a Cup.

Take that, you dastardly politicians! The Seymour will Seyless of you tonight!!!

(And to Firedogging Winos, enjoy your virtual copitas).

The Great Public Option Flip-Flop: Sanders Will Now Work To Deny the American People an Up-or-Down Vote

I want to say Hi to the Kossaks here on recon duty. Try to keep up.

Kossacks among the dirty f***ing hippies? What would their mothers say?

Does anyone else actually realize that Harry Mitchell voted “yes” on the original bill, was long considered by most sources as a “yes” vote…

and is not a “no” to “yes” flip as being advertised??

Also… if 38 Democrats voted “no” originally and 37 of them are still in the house… how come the spreadsheet only list 32 Democrats who voted “no”??

Just curious…

But, good old Harry Reid is still in there fighting for us. Per Sam Stein at HuffPo:

Hoping to assuage progressive Democrats who remain disappointed with the content of the health care reform bill, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) committed on Friday to holding a separate vote on a public option in the coming months.

In a letter to two of his more progressive colleagues in the Senate — Jeff Merkley of Oregon and Bernie Sanders of Vermont — the Nevada Democrat implicitly apologized for his inability to get a government-run insurance plan into the final piece of health care legislation and promised to keep working to get the policy into law.

He promises that he won’t pull the football away this time.
As you know, I am a strong supporter of a public option, and I included the HELP Committee’s public option in the bill I brought to the senate floor last year. I was disappointed when it became clear that we did not have the votes to keep it.

Nevertheless, like you, I remain committed to pursuing the public option. While I believe that the legislation we are considering does much to provide affordable coverage to millions of Americans and curb insurance company abuses, I also believe that the public option would provide additional competition to make insurance even more affordable. As we have discussed, I will work to ensure that we are able to vote on the public option in the coming months.

[...]
His willingness to give the policy a separate hearing appears to be a thank you of sorts to the caucus’s more progressive members for not jumping ship.

UPDATE: It also achieved a practical objective for the Majority Leader. Later on Friday, Sen. Bernie Sander’s announced that he would drop his efforts to include a public option as a amendment to the health care reconciliation package — forgoing a potentially tricky vote for the party.
[...]

Is the Leaning No Count supposed to be 212 or 214?

In the coming months….What a saint that harry Reid is! Barfing now

(Don’t worry about the HCR, on Sunday, just before the vote, several innocuous looking automobiles and other transportation machinery will rush driverless to the floor of the Congress, and unfold into giant robots, and proceed to hurl sushi at the assembled Congressrats until they all flee in rice-vinegar-stinking despair! There will BE no HCR vote! Muahahahaahahah!!!!)

Good question. If it’s 214, two more would cinch it.

but why would that matter?

if they cannot even get this meager bill passed, how in the world would a public option bill passed?

See my comment @ 3.

I think they’re just working out which members in Republican-leaning districts will be damaged or sacrificed by voting FOR this pos.

For most of those who’ve already said they’re in the “yes” column, it looks like they’re counting on Obama’s ability to spin this POS to get enough people in safe Democratic districts to vote for a Democrat in Nov.

Because I think 5 of those members have already made the transition.

The spread sheet is only for undecided or leaning members I believe?

I’m betting that there this will pass, but only with a couple of Republican cross-over defections. The Dems and Republicans both report to the same overlords.

They have to do it. There is a Facebook group of Kossaks who recon MyDD and FDL to try to keep ahead of us. They were also trying to undermine their own writer Slinkerwink. Funny stuff.

The point wouldn’t necessarily be to get it passed in the Senate, but to get the Senators on the record as having voted for or against it. For Democratic leadership, the way around the problem of forcing Senators to show their true colors is just to avoid having the vote at all. But the American people have a right to know who’s fucking them over, though at this point we have to conclude that they’re all – every last one of them – playing their part in the kabuki.

So slinkerwink is a Kossak? I thought she was with Jane and FDL.

But I mean, if that were true, why would they let the score get sooo close already?

I posted this the other day, but what the heck. Markos may just want more food fights but they sure do eat their own, or at least Slink.

succintly put, I want craptastic and/or overly negative diaries to stop making the rec list and stop dominating it, respectively.

no the group is not about slink, but as she is the posterchild for the above behavior, she obviously is a target of our efforts, imo. and by that i only mean organizing to try to diminish the influence of her (and other) bad diaries as much as possible.

this includes:

recon at FDL, DD etc. to keep up with their memes to maybe get ahead of them

timing the publication of our diaries to suck the oxygen out of hers/something comparably wretched

reccing diaries on the rec list around the crap diaries, e.g. rec all the ones below it

reccing other diaries that have a shot at the rec list for to displace them

basically throwing my diary reccing standards out the window, within reason of course…hahaha. i’m afraid the new standard has to be “is this diary better than what’s already on the wreck list?” if yes, rec, even if you wouldn’t normally.

i mean, we can post amazing diaries all we want, but let’s face it: it’s going to take some getting tricksy to really diminish the worst of the bad influences.

Why would they have 39 Senators sign the Bennet Letter supporting a public option, for example? Is that what you mean? To allow as many Senate Democrats to say that they supported it while at the same time the leadership makes sure that it doesn’t actually get passed or even come up for an up-or-down vote. It looks like they let Bennet be the biggest beneficiary of that particular bit of the kabuki.

I don’t even understand what any of that means. I dislike Kos a lot and don’t read over there so maybe it’s just me.

If you believe that politics is one issue and only one issue.

Champion… that actually makes sense… they list 30 and had 7 previously committed as a switch from “no” to “yes”. (I wish they still listed them)

There were 39 original no votes and one left the House…. so it still appears to be one short.

and yes… the spreadsheet (not the sidebar) is correct. There is currently 214 no votes including Leaners.

With leaners there are 10 flips from “yes” to “no” (11 if you count the GOP guy) and there are 7 flips from “no” to “yes”. If you don’t count the GOP guy, Pelosi needs the same number of Dems to flip for her as against here… so they are actually three votes short.

Also, they are not tracking any of the last minutes threats… both Bobby Rush and Peter DeFazio are claiming to be “no” votes unless “things get changed” in the bill. So they have some maintenance to do still, if they want to pass this.

Any bets on whether this gets a Sunday vote or if it get’s pushed back?

ain’t that the sorry assed truth.

Jane,

How can FDL do more to show people what’s behind the facade that is the bullshit Republican-Democratic dichotomy?

Whether they’re engaging in bullshit partisan dances or coming together in a show of bipartisanship, the politicians of both parties play the people for fools while serving corporate interests.

I love how you’re all whining (yes whining) how it’s such a gift to the insurance lobby/industry/cartel but why don’t you answer why the insurance lobby/industry/cartel is/has spending something like $200 million (or more?) to finance anti-HCR propaganda and even ‘foundations’ online, if it was such a gift? Where’s my answer?
No, they don’t spend that much money to “pretend” to be against something. Stinghy CEOs don’t throw a dime out the window unless they absolutely have to, it harms their precious stock prices. Stop whining and find out what’s in the bill. It’s not a great bill, but supporting the republicans out of anger by killing it (and why the constant violent language?) is not right.
Millions of people are going to get cheap insurance… now get in line and support it.

My pops and moms went down on Parkinson’s/heart attack ages 84 and alzheimers 79.

One was quicker and uglier and just shocking as I watched alzheimers strip her of being able to play cards, drive, shop or even open tin cans (they hid this from us kids for about 3 years) and partner with my pops, the other longer and equally painful as he lost his control finally and his body gave out.

I feel, and hear ya Margaret . . . with all my empathy, be well and hang as you can.

I’ve greatly appreciated your comments . . .

It’s not a great bill, but supporting the republicans out of anger by killing it (and why the constant violent language?) is not right.
Millions of people are going to get cheap insurance… now get in line and support it.

Stop the cussin’ kids. Get in line. Here is a pony, and here is a bright shiny cheap insurance. Oh it is possible it could still be Bill Killed? Then what do we get if we do not kill it?

Blue, there’s more to being pissed off at a peacock to be concerned about, yer treading on thin waters here with your language and feelings . . . he’s not the final final beast, and you know it.

The beast is the formenter of the class war that’s killin you and all of us.

The corporate oligarchy.

And yes, BushCo served them, too . . . and yes, I hated on Bush . . . but I learnt the evil lay behind the scenes, as I long suspected it since the 60′s.

Sorry, I lectured, my bad . . . be well Blue . . . be sharp and smart, and be well.

Reply to me on the thread upstairs if you can muster the courage to.

Before 2008, I’d been nothing but a rank and file Democrat for nearly 20 years.

I didn’t support Obama in the primaries because I thought he’d be an ineffective progressive.

Turns out, he’s been a most effective corporatist sellout who’s gone way out of his way to block real reform rather than use the majorities to achieve it, something that Americans overwhelmingly wanted and still want. Obama and his minions worked to block it and are still working to fuck it up when it comes to reform of the financial services industry. Obama’s not alone. The Democratic Party is dominated by these fucking neoliberal, New Democrat sellouts.

Rather than have real reform, millions of people are now going to be forced to buy the crappy products of private insurers and taxpayers will have to subsidize part of the wrong-headed effort.

You want me to support Democrats who work against women’s reproductive rights?

They can fuck off. This Democrat of 20 years is going to stop supporting these Democrats with my votes and money and start supporting primary challengers (go Marcy Winograd!) and will call out the wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Millions of people are going to get cheap insurance… now get in line and support it.

You can fool some of the people all the time. But only full-time fools look at this bill and see anyone getting “cheap” insurance out of the deal – unless you’re referring to the quality of the minimum basic plans that are mandated.

I don’t understand what this means. A pony? Well if you’re one of the 32 million without insurance, you know they don’t care about ponies. They deserve a chance to live and not die by avoiding the hospital with their illness, because they can’t afford it. Do you know how much a visit to a hospital costs? Probably not.
So, the next time you see a poor guy who has no house, maybe you say to him, “Hey buddy, got no house? I’d be a real nice morally upright progressive-guy and give you a mansion! But hey that didn’t work out, I can’t afford to buy you one. So you get nothing! Not even a dollar. Bye bye!”

Again, the 32 million uninsured also don’t care about how much you are telling them they “got fooled”. Or unless you’re a right-winger who thinks that because your taxes might go up, you “got fooled” by The Man. I’m not fooled by anything. I already stated I knew it wasn’t a good bill. But demanding perfection is stupid and no reason to crash the life-saving bill.
It will provide a minimum basic plan… sort of like the minimum basic you get when you go to the post office, or 26-channel cable, or uh… a Kia.
They deserve the cheap insurance because it’s better than nothing. Telling them “tough shit, no bill, it’s not good enough” is being a fool. And screwing over a lot of people who don’t deserve to be screwed over, by you.

You don’t seem to understand that the best way to help uninsured people and people who are insured, but get fucked over by their insurers when they get sick or injured, not to mention the best way for the country to save money, is to create real competition rather than feed the bad actors who have been fucking us over for years.

You’re looking at a band aid that appears to fix a broken and abusive system and you’re trying to tell people that it’s a miracle cure that’s designed to help people. But it isn’t designed to help people at all.

You skipped over my comment @ 74.

And don’t forget to see my comment @ 78.

You’re saying “better than nothing” like it was this piece of shit bad joke on the American people or nothing. Those weren’t the choices.

If you enjoy having elected leaders break their campaign promises and work against your interests, fine. Just don’t come here and try to sell others on the joys of getting fucked over.

The “pony” reference is a humorous metaphor about a gift that we never get.

Do you know how much a visit to a hospital costs?

Medical bills are bankrupting my family, and we have relatively good insurance. A major complaint of mine is the corporate control of medical care by Goldman Sachs. Doctors and health care providers must conform to the treatments of PhRMA. Even when these treatments are ineffective. It is “Draconian” and the Mad Max Bill makes it more corporate.

I think you responded to the wrong post.

My point is that if they were purposely letting just enough Democrats vote for the measure, why would they make it where they need 8 of the remaining 9 votes, for the bill to pass.

That seems like it tempts some of the remaining ones to just vote to kill the bill outright?

If they have 214 no votes, then they can only lose 1 more vote, without the measure failing.

They can lose 3 more votes if there really are only 212 no votes.

Also, I thought nothing can be changed in the bill?

For 90% of the country, the people are fools.

Why should I support millions of people getting insurance for free?

This just encourages them to continue being lazy.

People have no idea what “change” is. They just like to feel included.

Also, you think a woman should have the right to kill a child just because she was irresponsible and got drunk at a party?

What is wrong with you people?!?

Your characterization of why women should have their reproductive rights protected is offensive.

Is there any chance that this bill won’t pass, to me it looks like a done deal despite being close.

No, Mitchell doesn’t have a Dem. primary opponent. Schweikert’s not just a Republican but a wingnut Republican. Mitchell is not John Tanner or Brad Ellsworth. He’s from a red district and still votes pretty liberal but, hey, go ahead kick him out because it will make you feel so much better to be pure.

Do you even have any idea about Mitchell’s voting record? Do you have any idea of Schweikert’s background? Hell, do you even know he’s a Republican from Wingnuttia?

Honestly, I’ll be waiting with bated breath when Marcy Winograd casts her first vote against your interests. You’ll probably run whining about how representatives don’t vote the way you want them to 100% of the time. You may think she’s the perfect candidate but she’ll eventually disappoint you with some vote.

A better question is why you think your opinion regarding her choice should matter, regardless of the circumstances.

Well that was real cute, cedwyn is running her own little hit group and and OFA person. Thanks.