Jane has gone over this, but what Bart Stupak hinted at today has apparently come true. Stupak’s four-page “enrollment corrections” bill will get some sort of vote in the House as part of the overall health care bill. You can look at the scans of the four-page document here. It’s essentially the Stupak amendment.
On page 2, you can see clearly that it says “Nothing in this Act shall be construed to require any health plan to provide coverage of abortion services or to allow the secretary or any other person or entity implementing this Act (or amendment) to require coverage of such services,” and then later, “None of the funds appropriated by this Act… shall be expended for any abortion or to cover any part of the costs of any health plan that includes coverage of abortion, except in the case where a woman suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury or physical illness that would, as certified by a physician, place the woman in danger of death unless an abortion is performed…. or unless the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest.”
This is the Stupak amendment, right down to the language on Page 3 about a separate abortion rider (which is not currently offered in any state where private coverage is banned). And it’s added as a “concurring resolution” to this bill.
Now, can that work? What about reconciliation? Don’t the changes have to be budget-related? What’s the deal with this “enrollment corrections”?
A concurrent resolution doesn’t have to be signed by the President, just adopted by the House and Senate. Enrollment corrections are typically reserved for technical changes to a bill happening in between passage and signage – before “enrollment” of the bill.
The question here seems to come down to how this is presented. Does this enrollment correction get tucked into the reconciliation bill and then “deemed” (there’s that word again) passed by the Senate? Would it have to be a stand-alone measure? What about the Byrd rule?
I asked Sarah Binder, a parliamentary expert and a professor at George Washington University, about all this. She doesn’t quite think it’s possible. Specifically, she says that “any enrollment corrections resolution considered to be more than a technical correction would need unanimous consent (in the Senate) to be adopted.” Failing that, it could possibly run through a cloture vote, basically 60 votes in the Senate. But if it’s inside the reconciliation process, then one Senator merely can challenge the language of one line of the bill and get the concurrent resolution ordered out of the sidecar.
It seems it may come down to WHEN the vote happens. If it occurs before the final vote, Congress might be able to get away with having it included in the total bill. But that doesn’t seem like it would work, for reasons that David Waldman explains here:
It seems to me that if the Senate parliamentarian is indeed insisting that the reconciliation bill address “current law,” then that means the Senate bill must be not only enrolled, but signed by the President before reconciliation can be considered, at least in the Senate. I assume the House parliamentarian has no such objection to the House beginning its work (which is curious in itself), since he’s apparently allowing the House to consider and pass reconciliation before the Senate bill is enrolled.
Will the Senate parliamentarian insist that the bill be signed before permitting the Senate to begin its reconciliation work on the floor? He may have no say over what the House parliamentarian approves with respect to when the House passes reconciliation, but he can prevent the Senate from beginning until the Senate bill becomes “current law.”
Nobody really knows if Stupak can pull this off; there’s very little precedent.
If the vote occurs after the vote on the final bill, it would have to go through a very dicey reconciliation process. And as a concurrent resolution, it might have to exist as a standalone measure entirely, meaning it’s eligible for a filibuster.
Now, we don’t know what assurances are being made on the Senate side to keep this in. Remember, if anything from the House reconciliation sidecar gets changed, the sidecar has to go BACK to the House for another vote. At which point we’re in exactly the same boat that we’re in right now. Democratic Senate leaders have already said they would whip to make no changes whatsoever to the sidecar. So there could end up being a “conspiracy of silence,” where nobody says anything about the abortion language (though presumably a Republican might) and it passes through the Senate without incident. Or Joe Biden overrules the chair on the point of order, and Democrats are whipped to sustain it (though Republicans have said they would not agree to that and would vote en masse against it).
It’s about as clear as mud. But somehow, when something has to be done, the rules tend to melt away. It’s clear the House cannot pass the health care bill without Bart Stupak. That tends to concentrate the mind.
The Pro-Choice Caucus, incidentally, is talking about an open revolt on this.
The vote prompted an angry backlash from members of the Pro-Choice Caucus, who vowed to kill any future healthcare bill containing the Stupak language, which they say goes beyond current law and places more restrictions on abortion than already exist.
Leaders of the Pro-Choice Caucus, some 30 minutes after storming into Pelosi’s office, renewed that threat.
“This concurrent resolution which Congressman Stupak and several others have filed, from the position of the people who signed my letter back in November, is a non-starter,” said Rep. Diana DeGette (D-Colo.), a Pro-Choice Caucus co-chairwoman. “We compromised to the concept ‘no federal funding for abortion,’ which is current law — we don’t like that. And so if Mr. Stupak and a few members, along with the Republicans, decide to use this to take healthcare down, then that loss on healthcare coverage is going to be on their hands.”
DeGette said a move allowing the enrollment resolution to go forward would put “somewhere between 40 and 55” pro-abortion rights votes at stake.
That math was also leading to counter-rumors, including from aides of anti-abortion rights Democrats, that Pelosi could not realistically be putting even a dozen votes from the left at stake for the sake of Stupak and his allies.
But you know, they say a lot of things.



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But you know, they say a lot of things.
DING DING DING DING DING!
And in the end they’ll sit down, shut up, and be good little soldiers.
If I could add one word to your description, tademarkdave: “good little misogynist soldiers.”
Can someone explain to me the strategy here? If a separate vote on the Senate bill passes, it’s law and can be signed by the President. If the enrollment resolution passes the House, which it will almost certainly, it would still have to go through the Senate which would require at least 51 votes. But the Senate voted down the equivalent language with 54 votes against.
So, if one lets Stupak get his resolution, and the Senate says no, doesn’t this just mean that the Senate bill goes to the President and passes? Sounds pretty straightforward, so just let him get his resolution up for a vote, which is almost certain to die anyway…
Reality check.
Democrats can talk a good game. But at the end of the day… do they “really” have any personal convictions that they are willing to stand behind??
Maybe it’s just me, but I find the legislative process more intriguing than a mystery novel.
See all this going on Dennis? This could have been you. You could have been a player. You could have been a contender. You should have read Obama the riot act on that plane, for every filthy thing he’s done since taking office. But, no. You never should have signed that pledge if you weren’t willing to walk the line. Too bad.
It’s all just hot air. They write these vows to not support a bill without a public option, or vote against any bill with anti-abortion legislation. Unfortunately, they all cave like a house of cards. Its just sad when Bart Stupak is the only one with conviction.
where nobody says anything about the abortion language (though presumably a Republican might)
Senator Scott Brown of MA?
We may be saved by Republicans yet.
There is a difference. Bart had people who were backing him and agreeing to vote his way. Dennis only had Dennis.
Democrats! We have only begun to capitulate. The only thing you have to fear are your values and your principles. And the voters! They are they going to be pissed.
Now go out there and win one for Aetna!
We should start referring to the Democratic Party as the PWP.
The Party Without Principles.
All they had to do with Dennis is say “Paul Wellstone.”
NOW already calling in the ranks to call/act and NOT cut a deal with Stu…
It’s so nice to come onto a post with only a dozen comments and see that people like Lucky, lbjdem, and Sixth Estate have already said everything that needs to be said, and well said at that.
lmao. Might as well go clutch pearls with a call like that.
if only they could sing, dance, juggle and train big cats.
I’d like to think you’re right, lucky, but conciliation and concessions are for people the Democrats can’t take for granted.
That’s how a f*ckstick like Bart Stupak has more leverage than one of the fiercest advocates for single payer health reform in the US Congress.
It’s too bad Dennis is taking it from the left. I fully understand everyone’s frustration, but dammit, we shouldn’t be eating our own.
Hell I don’t know what to say about the bill any more. It appears to suck. It also appears that it has the potential to start saving lives immediately. So then you have to ask, how many lives is it worth to hold out for a better bill on principle? I’m just asking, I don’t have an answer. But let’s assume that the bill passes this month and recission ends immediately. And, for the sake of argument, let’s say that one person who would have gotten dumped for coming down with cancer keeps getting treated. Would it be worth it then?
Like I said, I don’t know. Just asking.
I do think that if we’re going to gather up some energy and start beating on people it ought to be on the Democrats who are sucking on the Big Insurance money teat and played dumb last summer when PNHP was trying to get seated at the Senate Finance Committee table. Those are the people who deserve a beating, politically speaking.
And what about Chuckles Grassley? That’s MY senator, and I want that fucker GONE. Please visit http://www.krauseforiowa.com and if you can, throw him a few bucks. I think he’s OK, it’s hard to imagine anyone worse than Grassley.
Steve King, another stellar Iowan mofo, is facing a challenge from Mike Denklau. Don’t know anything about him, but doesn’t he just HAVE to be better than King? Michelle Bachmann is better than King. So maybe you could stop by and show him some love. Or at least some like. http://www.denklauforcongress.com/index.html
I find it very awkward to be shilling for Democrats. I believe there are enough Progressives to form a real 3rd party movement IF we were willing to function as a coalition. That’s a BIG IF. Cindy Sheehan is trying to get something started; Nader is still out there pitching. The local Greens here seem to be a bit discombobulated at the moment but they share many of the same values. A real 3rd party that can elect members of Congress and provide a real choice IS THE ANSWER, in my opinion.
I think my meds are kicking in.
-Wexler
The House Progressive Caucus folded like a house of cards for Obama’s Folly…looks like it’s time for the Pro-Choice Caucus to do the same, eh…?
How many months late are they?
We go to the circus with the clowns we have, not the clowns we wish to have. /s
He is, after all, admittedly and unashamedly pro choice.
That would be novel, if Mr. Centerfold became our white knight, lol.
This all reminds me of science fiction:
The progressives are living in Cloud City and Darth Vader Rahm has once again made a surprise appearance: “I am altering the agreement; pray that I do not alter it further.”
Medicare buy-in, public option, drug reimportation, antitrust, strong employer mandate, Medicare drug negotiation, the insurance tax (and indexing), watered-down Stupak, etc. have all been treacherously promised and undelivered.
I just want to swear. So much. Longly and loudly. So much so, I’ll go outside.
BRB.
So now what…?
Another twist. Seems they run the risk of : 1) fouling up the Senate language and thus requiring ‘regular’ senate action before bill becomes law 2) afoul of the parliamentarian via reconciliation or 3) if bill passes first, would the Senate bill supersede it later?
this idiocy is beyond broken and super idiotic anymore.
i await guidance from Kobe.
srsly.
It certainly makes me wonder what’s in the water in DC.
Goddayum, Open warfare!
And Rocky Lizard finally gets his Death Pan … um, Independent Medical Advisory Board.
Sure, didn’t you see how hard the fight was against drug reimportation and how haven’t you been paying attention to how much effort it has taken to keep that nasty public option dead? Principles they can fight for just seem to be attached to corporate interests they can shill for.
This circus brought to you by a party with a 256-178 edge in the House…
If I hear the word “obstructionism” again I swear I’ll lose my mind…
WTF????
And … who will tell the women-folk.
I hereby obstruct your obstructionism and raise you some more juicy obstructionism topped with whipped obstruction!
So there! Pfffft.
A concurrent resolution does not have the force of law. That’s why it doesn’t have to be signed or vetoed by the President.
256-178 = 78 !!
“we” have 78 seats … ha ha ha. stu-pid-pak and his 12th century flat earthers deserve every piece of garbage they can get away with!
and if we’re gonna keep giving our money and our time to sell outs and political pathetic sacks of shit, we deserve to have stu-pid-pak and his 6? 8% of flat earth stooges run everything.
while I wish rahm would just join the re-pukes, his strategy of utter contempt for liberals was smart.
rmm.
Look it up and try again.
i swear, if dems were half the energy creatures pukes/murdoch are/is ..
i mean, we wouldn’t even need creativity – just the facts, e.g.
INTERNATIONAL BOY RAPE CULT DEMANDS FEMALE FERTILITY CONTROL IN USA HEALTH CARE DEBATE
Hi sharkbabe – en fuego you are!
All of this proves there is no such thing as a “moderate” liberal. They don’t have any McCain’s which the media is so fond of..valiantly bucking his party for his convictions. Stupak is villified as a roadblock to history. These people all march in lockstep.
I want the bill to pass.
With the restrictions/rollbacks on women’s repro rights?
You may be the bravest commenter I know.
Evening, Loo Hoo.
I want health care for all. Leave not one body out.
Hi Newt and Kelly. Yes, I want it to pass even if Stupak gets a massage. It will be corrected.
Kelly, can you imagine the force of 51% of the population? The abortion-aged women are not following now for the most part, and once the word gets out, watch out.
I know what you mean. Who are the 5% still not covered??
Well, we just disagree about the issue, but I hope you’re right.
The reason why is this; why are the politicians even RISKING the issue to correct later?
I did look it up. Try typing “concurrent resolution” into google, if it’s not too much trouble.
“In the United States, a concurrent resolution is a legislative measure passed by both the Senate and the House of Representatives. Passed by both houses, concurrent resolutions are not presented to the President and DO NOT HAVE THE FORCE OF LAW. In contrast, a joint resolution or a bill is presented to the President and, once signed or approved over a veto, does have the power of law.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concurrent_resolution
At #2 on google, read what’s on the U.S. Senate’s website:
“concurrent resolution – A legislative measure, designated ‘S. Con. Res.’ and numbered consecutively upon introduction, generally employed to address the sentiments of both chambers, to deal with issues or matters affecting both houses, such as a concurrent budget resolution, or to create a temporary joint committee. Concurrent resolutions are not submitted to the President and thus DO NOT HAVE THE FORCE OF LAW.”
http://www.senate.gov/reference/glossary_term/concurrent_resolution.htm
But of course, I forgot–this is America. Having a dismissive, know-it-all attitude trumps facts.
Oh, wait–does that mean you’re a Republican?
{{Loo Hoo}}
The supremes will likely make “fixing it” take decades or more.
No I can’t imagine the force of 51%. Much of that % is pro-life women. And many of the so-called pro-choice bought it when Ms Magazine put a t-shirt on Obama on their cover that read “This is what a Feminist looks like”. And that same group in 2007 bought it when Obama said, “The first bill I will sign is the Freedom of Choice Act. That’s the first bill I’ll sign.” And the same group bought it when KOS and others said, “If you don’t sign onto the Unity Pony for Obama, Roe will be overturned.”
I don’t have any knowledge about what you’re citing, but I can tell you that in labor law there is an issue called past practice. If one party in negotiations goes along with issue (say forcing workers to work one night per week, and it’s never been challenged) it becomes past practice and therefore deemed acceptable.
Since republicans used these procedures forever, perhaps this is what the dems are relying upon.
Dangerous, of course, with our Supremes.
Read back into how the whole “enrollment” process works.
It’s not as easy and straightforward as you think and read.
And also, while you’re at it, read the Reconciliation Bill, all 153 pages, and try to reconcile to the Senate bill.
There are so many traps and pitfalls, it’s really quite something.
And thanks for the insults.
Well, I suspect that lots of men would get with the program as well.
Law is law. The supremes can’t do diddly about that.
That’s a nice thought Loo Hoo.
Hey Newt what shaking on your tree?
I think one chili part of this bill is;
http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/news/economy/health_care_reform_obama.fortune/index.htm ERISA (Employees Retirement Security Act)is gone in 5 years and those folks are dumped back into the mandate pools.
My question will that prevent California and other states from having universal Health Care like SB810?
Read SCOTUS “Citizens United” judgment again
I wish I knew.
And Jerry Brown – 6 of one…
Right. How long will that ruling last if Obama is in for seven more years? Imagine what could be wrought if he’s not.
PS Are men that want to help with the 51% going to help women buy the extra rider for coverage of a medical procedure that only effects a woman’s body though? Or maybe some kind of upfront money before the sex act just in case there is an unintended pregnancy. Or even maybe the man will be mandated to look at her insurance card to see if she has the abortion coverage then offer her some money for the extra premiums she has paid. Or better yet the man will be required to turn over his insurance card to see if he bought the extra coverage.
It is not 5% We have 45 million uninsured. Any coverage for them is a mandate and if they do not or cannot afford to pay they are fined by the IRS. Criminalized for not buying crap insurance. Many of these are homeless mentally ill or drug addicts. http://www.clih.net is my non profit website. We have thousands of homeless just in this small county. These folks cannot pay. Many are raising school age kids living in cars. Many are unemployable, mentally ill or drug addicted.
My dentist told me today a large part of his clientele cannot afford the work they need on the teeth and gums. I have been an affordable housing advocate for over a decade. People are paying bigger percentages of shrinking income for housing cost. Medical has skyrocketed as coverage for proceedures have shrunk.
I am losing patients with people who have not read the 2000 page bill but act as though they know it. Many people have pointed out the pitfall to you. San Diego County where you live has a very thin safety net. Gov Schwaznegger has cut the state funding for social services. As has been pointed out by Hugh and a host of erudite well informed commenters this is a bad bill. Budgets are upside down at every level.
You do not get a free pass on misinformation.
I always kinda thought education is the answer. It’s weird that the same people who oppose abortion also oppose sex-ed. What about you?
They can declare laws to be void.
Signed,
Denis Prager
Oy, are you at the wrong site!
I understand. But if the bill were to pass, 31 million more people would qualify for medicaid.
The cost for the tax in lieu of insurance is on a sliding scale. I read that a family making $80K would pat a tax if $850. Any one of those families could be involved in a car accident costing hundred of thousands of dollars.
Shouldn’t everyone ante up?
Does he pay prostitutes? Because most of what I offered was pretty much prostitution.
Oh. What to do about that?
I was checking out the other progressive blogs to see if anyone else was talking about The Return Of Stupak. I came across this comment, which I think distills the position of Obama supporters down to its essence:
Yeah, why do all these liberals want to be pro-choice? Don’t they know that reproductive rights are so 1990′s? It’s time to choose your party over your principles. Sheep, to the bridge! Prepare jump countdown sequence.
The Medicaid Provision, which will not change the Federal Poverty Level from what it is now, does not kick in either until 2014. And AZ kicked 310,000 people off their rolls for their 2011 budget just yesterday. And they completely eliminated CHIP, 47,000 children. Seems the so called 31 million is going down.
Maybe it’s not a bus we’re getting thrown under. Maybe it’s a clown car.
But if we’re all in the back, who’s driving this thing?
Wexler
Brilliant Post! BRILLIANT!
Sure sex education helps. But then again we still have mass participants in the conscience clause (as Stupak would also extend to entities thus extending corporate personhood). Guess sex education meant something to their conscience that it doesn’t to mine because most won’t even sell the morning after pill either.
I wish – with ALL MY HEART & SOUL that every single anti-choice SOB, MFing, Anti-Rights dick would have their own unwanted pregnancy … and choke on a very dry cupcake – in public.
@sixth estate
hmm… I disagree with your post. It comes down to – do we want:
a) a starting point we can build on,
b) to help 32 million get coverage that do not already have it,
c) no longer allow insurance companies to drop people,
d) no longer allow insurance companies to deny coverage,
e) no longer allow insurance companies to use “preexisting condition” as a way to take our money & not cover us,
f) allow youth up to 26 – who don’t normally buy insurance – stay on their parent’s insurance
…. or ….. or ….. strip away woman’s rights
That is IN DEED a very hard question. I wish nothing but ill-will for Bart “Anti-Rights” Stupak. I hope he is soon outted for his closet time he does with the Republicans who OWN HIM.
Damn. PS again. Do you mean education like this proposed by a Dem that has 43 sponsors including of course the Stupak gang. I especially like this touch: “Authorizes grants for collecting and reporting abortion surveillance data.” Guess that would be educational to many.
So do I actually have an ally?
Oops, that was meant for Loo Hoo. Sorry. Guess I’m on an uncontrollable rant at this point.
My God. This would be beautiful if Stupak pulls this off. I support Stupak’s position of having universal health coverage without endangering current protections against having federal taxpayer dollars going to elective abortion.
Could this actually happen?
It would indeed be marvelous if this strange little ballet over the past 6 months actually fell into what is, for those like me, the best of all worlds [given the limitations inherent to the Senate bill like not having a public option].
Loo Hou
I am convinced that the anti-choice crowd have are manufacturers of coat hangers waiting to rent an ally in a cheap trailer.
I am as pro-choice and pro-woman’s rights as you can get … I only laid out the real scenario that pro-RIGHTS members in Congress would have to deal with if the piece of crap Stupak gets an Amendment in.
It is a hard decision…. IF: Stupak’s bs passed would it be easy to repeal? IF: Stupak’s language does NOT pass would he still vote for the Senate Bill?
I really hate that guy.
@spider 84
Stupak does NOT support universal health care .. where did YOU even get that crazy idea?
Why are you against woman’s rights? Did you hate your mom?
If Stupak manages to pull this off I may have to profess my undying love of Bart Stupak. I may have to be the first Stupak groupie [if there aren't any already].
Unfortunately, support for legal abortion is declining precipitously. In August 2008, Americans were split on abortion 54/41 legal/illegal. By April 2009, support legal abortion had dropped to 46/44.
Among women, support for legal abortion dropped from 54/42 to 49/42. And among young people age 18-29, support dropped from 52/45 to 47/48.
I love my Mom (and I may love Bart Stupak as well…we’ll see)
@dabear
You wrote: “Stupak would also extend to entities thus extending corporate personhood”
ME: Since people like Stupak allow us to get F_CKED by corporations – I’m not surprised he thinks they are “persons.” I just don’t understand why he cares if a woman wants to abort the rape from his corporate pals.
Stupak definitely needs to go, but you didn’t answer my question.
@spider84
You say you love your mom – but yet you want to strip away woman’s rights … hmmm… I don’t think you do love your mom. At least not unconditionally, how pathetic your life must be to love your mother under the condition that YOU never learn of the abortion she may have had.
@LooHou
I did answer you. I think you should ask that question to spider84 who clearly wants woman to go back to the days of coat hangers.
@sixth
Ya know, it doesn’t really matter how many people support a legal medical procedure. How many people support legal inter-racial marriage? Answer: Who cares- it’s legal so it is no one’s business.
Same with abortion. It is a legal medical procedure.
IF: Federal funds covers ALL legal medical procedures except ONE
THEN: it is discrimination and should not be allowed.
Good point. One lawsuit.
And I noticed you didn’t respond to the info I provided you on Medicaid (which is not offered to 31 million in the first place) and my response to you regarding “education” especially the Pregnant Women Support Act. I just thought you might be reading it though so you could get out there now and help boost that 51% that women have up with all that male support you spoke of.
LooHou
Thanks. I would love to sue those rightwinged so-called christian anti-rights baztards – only problem is – the entire process would make me fill up with hatred and I really don’t like to feel hate … so to avoid that feeling … I do not sue … yet – but I might if provoked.
What do you want me to read? You’ve been responding to a couple of us at the same time.
@spider84
YOU WROTE: “I may have to profess my undying love of Bart Stupak. I may have to be the first Stupak groupie [if there aren't any already].”
ME TO YOU: I don’t know what gender you are – In fact, I only know you are Anti-Woman’s rights and – must live a pathetic life as a person who only loves your mom under conditions she lives & has always lived by YOUR RULES
… BUT …
You should know, before you proclaim your undying love for Stupak, that he bunked for 6 years with Republican MEN at C Street in secret. Stupak has a huge bill at Dick’s Sporting Goods for volley ball knee pads. Apparently your lover Stupak blew out a LOT of knee pads at C Street.
I just thought you should know that.
Insurance companies will still deny claims. I’ll quote Jane’s earlier post on this:
We had a process for regulating the securities markets. Then we had Enron. Then we improved the “process”. Then we had the entire financial system melt-down.
The only way to keep corporations in check is to keep them small. Once they get wealthy enough, they capture the regulatory process.
And even with a fair process, the insurance companies are more than happy to make it a long, drawn-out process, so most people just give up and pay out-of-pocket. Our lawyer told us a case he fought, where the insurance lawyer admitted (off-the-record) that the insurance company was in the wrong, but bragged that it would cost more to fight the insurance company than to just eat the cost of the claim.
Your insurance company can make the appeals drag out long enough so you simply either give up or die. And you (or your next-of-kin) have no recourse, because ERISA was left in place.
Without ERISA reform, insurance companies can deny or delay care without facing any meaningful consequences. Without ERISA reform, you get health care at the pleasure of your insurance company.
@sixth estate
Thanks for the info. I think insurance companies should operate as non-profit orgs like a union does. Insurance companies produce NOTHING and are ONLY “collective bargainers” for their clients.
I think the Hyde amendment should be repealed. But that’s not what my comment was about. I was responding to this comment from Loo Hoo (emphasis added):
Unfortunately, the force of pro-choice Americans is declining because there are getting to be fewer and fewer pro-choice Americans. That was the point I was illustrating with the Pew results. If the Stupak language passes, it is unlikely it will get corrected anytime soon.
I responded to you directly on Medicaid and indeed I did respond to even myself where I said “oops” on the other one where I provided a link that went to keepemhonest. It was #76. Gonna go to bed now though. I’m an old woman. Old enough to be spider84′s mom whom he loves.
Penalties (for not purchasing health insurance, starting in 2014): Penalty: In 2014, $95 a year or 0.5 percent of a household’s income, whichever is greater; in 2015, $495 or 1 percent of income; in 2016, $750 or 2 percent of income (with a maximum of $2,250 for a family). The penalty would be adjusted for inflation after 2016.
Exemptions (Senate bill): American Indians; people with religious objections; people who can show financial hardship; people without coverage for less than three months; households with income below 100 percent of the poverty level ($22,050 for a family of four in 2009); households that would pay more than 8 percent of their income on premiums for the cheapest available health plan. (Reconciliation bill, which adds to or revises the Senate bill): Would also exempt households with incomes below the tax-filing threshold ($9,350 for individuals and $18,700 for couples in 2009).
Don’t vote for any of them in Nov. The whole lot of them need to be cleaned out like the sewer sludge they are. They have no integrity and they are completely spineless. I’m not only not voting Dem, I will be voting for someone else. I don’t who, but I ain’t sittin this election out. This is one civil liberty they haven’t taken away yet….and I’m going to indulge in it. You watch, the “pro-choice” dems, will cave and Stupak will prevail. If Dennis, Grayson, Weiner and all the others refused to budge unless they got the P.O…..then we’d have a P.O. in the bill. Instead we have some jackass from N. MI, who’s a rich old white man deciding if my daughters can have an abortion if they get knocked-up. I’m FURIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE do not vote for these people in Nov. If we don’t take a stand, things will never change.
has stupak come out in favor of single payer and/or a public option? if not, this point is rather moot. because if stupak doesn’t support a public option and/or single payer then he’d oppose the bill anyway. so stupak is a no vote on two issues now, instead of just one.
This logic is asinine.
The same logic could have been applied to slavery, when it was legal.
“How many people support legal slavery? Answer: Who cares- it’s legal so it is no one’s business.”
See where that goes?
It is called……servitude to corporations. The corporate aristocrats elected to represent the people, actually fuck the people, as Jefferson warned, less concerned with protecting Life and Liberty more concerned with protecting the bottom line profits of Corporate Slime in legalized crime, as slave owners resisted any and all change that would liberate “people” from their masters. Remember the first response of the slave owner to the abolitionist…… “We can’t free the slaves it will cost to much!!!!!!!” Yes it sure did cost to much to free men, 500,000 dead Americans in a bloody civil war. Servitude to corporations mandated under the color of law is no different from a fugitive slave law?? BTW Stupid Stu, you are wrong! You are discriminating against “woman” just as America permitted the segregation and discrimination against African Americans, the sole design of which was to keep slaves subservient to their masters. Now every American will be a Dred Scott, whose right life and liberty is now subordinate to the corporate interest in America. Servitude to Kings or Corporations or government is not Liberty is is an insidious form of tyranny by design, as Jefferson feared and warned!! Silent Germans………… anyone?
CORPORATE AMERICA………. FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tax exempt and or anti trust exempt state based Health Insurance “corporations” discriminate and inflicted up to now, and untold price America. It is hard to rationalize tax exempt status, public charity status for health insurance corporations, determined by the IRS on the grounds of “relieving a burden of government” when as tax exempt corporations they are bankrupting American families and the nation!
This is what America gets in return for the tax exempt status many health insurers and providers enjoy?? Now government will mandate individuals into private contracts with the very corporations which systematically fucked Americans and America for decades!! This is “FUCKING RETARDED”
PROTECT THE SLAVE OWNER????????????????????????????
We the corporations of America, dictate what constitutes Liberty and Life and pursuit of happiness…………….
Servitude to Exxon Mobile Aetna AIG Merril Lynch and the list goes on as individuals and our lives are rendered subordinate to CORPORATE IDENTITY, where accountability of “”criminals”" within said corps is lost and bought by undue influence of special interests less concerned with the welfare of the union, more concerned with profit, as a crack addict is less concerned about his life, more concerned about getting his fix or daily dose of extracted wealth from others under fraudulent pretenses, to get a high on “PROFIT!”
Leveraged economic servitude to American health insurance corporations is not liberty. It is akin to “servitude” to a King or a Master. This is dumber than dead dirt. Be careful. Abolish health insurance as America Abolished slavery. Seems the corporate bean counters are seeking to place a premium on “Life” just as Dred Scott was considered property?
FUCK CORPORATE AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To pass this bill, the Democratics will stiff every group that brought them and Obama into power, except the health insurance industry. It will be interesting to see if these groups will let them get away with it. Some almost certainly will.
The unions don’t seem to mind but then the unions have cared about anything since they purged their membership of true leftists that knew it was always about “class.” Look at NAFTA, they went along to get along on this job destruction bill.
Actually, the told BC they would not help him pass health care and would use the funds to campaign against NAFTA if he went that route. He did and they did. They didn’t “go along” with NAFTA.
I agree with you though that union leaders do not take hard stands on the right things. For example, with this current debate, the union membership for much of organized labor including the AFL-CIO passed resolutions in support of single payer, only to be ignored by their union leaders.
Oh holy crap I hope this thing crashes and burns. Oh that would so fucking rock.
Eat it, AHIP Obama.
Don’t you people get it? They could promise Stupak anything he wants. It will never become part of the final bill (whatever that is, I don’t think anyone even knows anymore). This is pure political cover so Stupak can say, hey look I tried, but those darn Senators wouldn’t vote with me.
I don’t think Stupak is that naive. I think he was a yes all along and just a) liked the spotlight and b) thinks his constituents are imbeciles and won’t see right through this charade.
We’ll see.
: )
The penalities section…changing. From the office of the Speaker herself re: current reconciliation bill:
“Makes the individual responsibility requirement in Senate bill more fair. The Senate bill requires that individuals who have affordable options but choose to remain uninsured to make a payment to offset the cost of care they will inevitably need. Under the reconciliation bill, penalties for low‐ and moderate‐income families who fail to obtain coverage would go down, relative to the Senate bill. Penalties for higher income families who fail to obtain coverage would rise.”
No specifics given in her pr blurb, of course. But I do know this, from looking at other summaries: that 2% of income thing…has risen to 2.5%. (And I’ve seen nothing that relates this rate to being only for a “higher income” family.)
Oh, and I LOVE the doublespeak re: that it’s not really a “penalty” as much as a “payment to offset the cost of care they will inevitably need.”
So one would ask: Are they settin’ any of the penalty monies aside into some kind of escrow account for these people so that indeed, it’s used to do just that? Alas, I’ve seen nothing about where these penalty monies are gonna go…BTW: CBO estimates over $17 billion is gonna wind up in the coffers of the U.S. gov’t. this way first 10 years. That’s $17 billion.
P.S. Penalty percentages can be changed over the years, no question, just as they were in reconciliation. Convenient way to “raise funds” for the next bailout, dontcha think?
Someone at C Street has something on Stupac and is blackmailing him to act like an a**h***. Well, that is one excuse if there need be an excuse for such and idiot.
the Catholic bishops are holding his soul hostage
That’s why we call them the “Party of Whores.” But then, we call the Republican party the “Party of Death.” Once again we’re faced with a choice between syphilis and gonorrhea. If we’re to be taken seriously, we have to find a little spine. If “our folks” holding office were willing to walk away from the table, the leadership would be sure to have a seat for us at the table. We’re going to have do do a little more than running primary opponents against Stupak and friends, although that’s a great start.
Oh, and by the way, the bill does have widespread bipartisan support — for its defeat.
Greetings and permutations fellow thinkers. I have decided to toss my hat in the ring and slug it out with you guys against the forces of darkenss and evil. We are talking about the bishops who have condoned child abuse, murder and torture forever. I just want to make sure we are talking about the same good people
If this atrocity passes it’s going to be a political disaster for Obama and the Dinocrats and if it fails it will be disaster for them. Take your choice. As for the rest of us it’s already a disaster doesn’t really matter. Obama and his clueless admin. have spent a yr. and half pissing it’s electoral mandate away for a garbage bill and all the while the economy is continuing to unravel no matter what the lying pols and they’re paid for flunkies say.
I liked the way Stupak language died today when the public option folks vowed to do the same vote.
There will be NO votes to the recon to change it.
Stupak can just go and pound sand.
All I said was that a concurrent resolution doesn’t have the force of law…and I’m right. Everybody’s so busy shouting out news flashes and slogans and worrying themselves to death that they don’t seem to have time to try to figure anything out for themselves. If something bypasses the president’s signature, except by veto override, it cannot have the force of law — that’s not congressional rules, that’s the Constitution itself. Of course, that certainly doesn’t preclude so-called “gentleman’s agreements,” which can be powerful in their own way without being law. There’s nevertheless a big difference between that kind of thing and a law.