To the surprise of pretty much no one, Glenn Nye remains a “no” vote on health care. But I admit I didn’t see this one coming. From Roll Call ($):
As their whip efforts narrow to just a handful of Members, House Democratic leaders are facing an unlikely problem vote: Rep. Loretta Sanchez.
Sanchez was nowhere to be found on Saturday — she was in Florida on a fundraising jaunt, two Democratic sources said — and while leaders expected her to return for the Sunday vote on final passage, they weren’t assured. What’s more, leaders now list the Orange County Democrat as a “no” vote.
[]
Sanchez this week told the Orange County Register that she needs to be satisfied that the health care overhaul is affordable. “The Senate bill is a bad bill,” she told the paper.
Politically, the vote should be a relatively easy lift for Sanchez. The seven-term lawmaker has been re-elected with at least 60 percent of the vote since 2000, winning by a decisive 69 percent in 2008. President Barack Obama carried the district by 60 percent.
Sanchez voted “yes” last time. She faces a well-funded GOP challenger, Van Tran, in the 2010 election. Although Obama carried her district by 60%, Schwarzenegger won it in 2006 as did Bush in 2004. It has a growing Vietnamese community, which Tran hopes to capitalize on. “They come out and vote in large numbers, and they’re 2-to-1 Republican,” he told the Associated Press.
This makes Nancy Pelosi’s job considerably harder. Sanchez’s jump could be a sign that there are members who have been quiet about their positions and hoping they’d never have to take the vote. But with the fear of tough elections ahead looming large, more could follow her lead. I know there’s a tendency to look at these votes as carved in stone once members commit publicly, but I fully remember what happened to Ciro Rodriguez during the Cap and Trade vote:
During the vote, Washington Rep. Jay Inslee, one of the taller members of the House, guarded the doors on the floor leading out to the Speaker’s Lobby, warning members not to leave the floor in case anyone needed to switch his or her vote. But that didn’t stop some Democrats, like Colorado Rep. John Salazar, from voting no early and sneaking out to avoid getting pressured by party leaders.
Leadership aides say Texas Rep. Ciro Rodriguez promised Pelosi he’d vote yes, but voted no and sprinted from the chamber. California Rep. Xavier Becerra tried unsuccessfully to flag him on his cell phone — and Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) bounded into the ornate Speaker’s Lobby off the floor shouting, “Rodriguez! Rodriguez!” as puzzled reporters looked on.
Of course Lloyd Doggett, who made an impassioned speech swearing to vote against the bill that very morning, ultimately voted yes. So that works both ways.
Nye moves out of the “undecided” category, and Loretta Sanchez makes her first appearance on the chart. That bumps the total to 209 no, 204 yes.
| Voted | Retiring | Stupak | PVI | No | Stupak | Unknown | Leaning Yes | Yes | |||
| Aye | Nay | ||||||||||
| Definite No (31): | |||||||||||
| 1 | Adler, John | X | R+1 | 1 | |||||||
| 2 | Barrow, John | X | D+2 | 1 | |||||||
| 3 | Boren, Dan | X | R+14 | 1 | |||||||
| 4 | Boucher, Rick | X | R+11 | 1 | |||||||
| 5 | Bright, Bobby | X | R+16 | 1 | |||||||
| 6 | Chandler, Ben | X | R+9 | 1 | |||||||
| 7 | Childers, Travis | X | R+14 | 1 | |||||||
| 8 | Davis, Artur | X | D+18 | 1 | |||||||
| 9 | Edwards, Chet | X | R+20 | 1 | |||||||
| 10 | Herseth-Sandlin, Stephanie | X | R+9 | 1 | |||||||
| 11 | Holden, Tim | X | R+6 | 1 | |||||||
| 12 | Kissell, Larry | X | R+2 | 1 | |||||||
| 13 | Kratovil, Frank | X | R+13 | 1 | |||||||
| 14 | Marshall, Jim | X | R+10 | 1 | |||||||
| 15 | McIntyre, Mike | X | R+3 | 1 | |||||||
| 16 | McMahon, Michael | X | R+4 | 1 | |||||||
| 17 | Melancon, Charlie | X | R | R+12 | 1 | ||||||
| 18 | Minnick, Walt | X | R+18 | 1 | |||||||
| 19 | Peterson, Collin | X | R+6 | 1 | |||||||
| 20 | Ross, Mike | X | R+7 | 1 | |||||||
| 21 | Shuler, Heath | X | R+6 | 1 | |||||||
| 22 | Skelton, Ike | X | R+14 | 1 | |||||||
| 23 | Taylor, Gene | X | R+20 | 1 | |||||||
| 24 | Arcuri, Mike | X | R+1 | 1 | |||||||
| 25 | Lynch, Stephen | X | D+8 | 1 | |||||||
| 26 | Teague, Harry | X | R+6 | 1 | |||||||
| 27 | Altmire, Jason | X | R+6 | 1 | |||||||
| 28 | Space, Zack | X | R+7 | 1 | |||||||
| 29 | Matheson, Jim | X | R+15 | 1 | |||||||
| 30 | Nye, Glenn | X | R+6 | 1 | |||||||
| 31 | Sanchez, Loretta | X | D+5 | 1 | |||||||
| Potential No-Yes Flips (3): | |||||||||||
| 1 | Baird, Brian | X | R | D+0 | 1 | ||||||
| 2 | Davis, Lincoln | X | R+14 | 1 | |||||||
| 4 | Tanner, John | X | R | R+6 | 1 | ||||||
| Potential Yes-No Flips (6): | |||||||||||
| 1 | Foster, Bill | X | R+1 | 1 | |||||||
| 2 | Kanjorski, Paul | X | D+4 | 1 | |||||||
| 3 | Michaud, Mike | X | D+5 | 1 | |||||||
| 4 | Ortiz, Solomon | X | R+2 | 1 | |||||||
| 5 | Pomeroy, Earl | X | R+10 | 1 | |||||||
| Stupak Block (10): | |||||||||||
| 1 | Costello, Jerry | X | S | D+3 | 1 | ||||||
| 2 | Donnelly, Joe | X | S | R+4 | 1 | ||||||
| 3 | Driehaus, Steve | X | S | D+1 | 1 | ||||||
| 4 | Lipinski, Dan | X | S | D+11 | 1 | ||||||
| 5 | Stupak, Bart | X | S | R+3 | 1 | ||||||
| 6 | Berry, Marion | X | S | R+8 | 1 | ||||||
| 7 | Dahlkemper, Kathy | X | S | R+3 | 1 | ||||||
| 8 | Mollohan, Alan | X | S | R+9 | 1 | ||||||
| 9 | Kaptur, Marcy | X | S | D+10 | 1 | ||||||
| 10 | Rahall, Nick | X | S | R+6 | 1 | ||||||
| Committed Votes | |||||||||||
| Democratic | 204 | ||||||||||
| Republican | 178 | ||||||||||
| TOTAL | 209 | 10 | 8 | 0 | 204 | ||||||



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Thanks Jane
I think its 204 yes if Sanchez was considered a yes before.
I’ve been urging Mr Doggett to vote against the POS coming out of the Senate but I’m afraid it’s a lost cause.
Jane,
I came across this article by David Sirota at Global Research. You said you’d be on his radio show, on Monday.
The Health Care Bill: What’s the Matter With the Democrats?
Liberal Groups obediently follow Orders to back the Bill
by David Sirota
Global Research, March 20, 2010
“…Ever since Thomas Frank published his book “What’s the Matter With Kansas?” Democrats have sought a political strategy to match the GOP’s. The health care bill proves they’ve found one….Whereas Frank highlighted Republicans’ sleight-of-hand success portraying millionaire tax cuts as gifts to the working class, Democrats are now preposterously selling giveaways to insurance and pharmaceutical executives as a middle-class agenda. Same formula, same fat-cat beneficiaries, same bleating sheeple herded to the slaughterhouse. The only difference is the Rube Goldberg contraption that Democrats are using to tend the flock….First, their leaders campaign on pledges to create a government insurer (a “public option”) that will compete with private health corporations. Once elected, though, Democrats propose simply subsidizing those corporations, which are (not coincidentally) filling Democratic coffers. Justifying the reversal, Democrats claim the subsidies will at least help some citizens try to afford the private insurance they’ll be forced to buy—all while insisting Congress suddenly lacks the votes for a public option…….Despite lawmakers’ refusal to hold votes verifying that assertion, liberal groups obediently follow orders to back the bill, their obsequious leaders fearing scorn from Democratic insiders and moneymen. Specifically, MoveOn, unions and “progressive” nonprofits threaten retribution against lawmakers who consider voting against the bill because it doesn’t include a public option. The threats fly even though these congresspeople would be respecting their previous public-option ultimatums—ultimatums originally supported by many of the same groups now demanding retreat…..Soon it’s on to false choices. Democrats tell their base that any bill is better than no bill, even one making things worse, and that if this particular legislation doesn’t pass, Republicans will win the upcoming election—as if signing a blank check to insurance and drug companies couldn’t seal that fate. They tell everyone else that “realistically” this is the “last chance” for reform, expecting expecting We the Sheeple to forget that those spewing the do-or-die warnings control the legislative calendar and could immediately try again…..Predictably, the fear-mongering prompts left-leaning Establishment pundits to bless the bill, giving Democratic activists concise-yet-mindless conversation-enders for why everyone should shut up and fall in line (“Krugman supports it!”). Such bumper-sticker mottoes are then demagogued by Democratic media bobbleheads and their sycophants, who dishonestly imply that the bill’s progressive opponents (1) secretly aim to aid the far right and/or (2) actually hope more Americans die for lack of health care. In the process, the legislation’s sellouts are lambasted as the exclusive fault of Republicans, not Democrats and their congressional majorities….”
The article can be read entirely @:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18222
True colors shining through.
Loretta Sanchez is my rep (CA-47). She’s pretty flakey but will definitely not vote no.
Incidentally there are 5 times as many latinos in CA-47 than asians, so I think she’ll be fine.
It seems ironic to me that Vietnamese-Americans would be conservative, if the article is accurate.
Wow, thanks a lot for the heads up and link on that one man.
THAT was absolutely dead on.
Damned awesome.
yep thanks, getting tired & a little crosseyed. Appreciate the proofing!
Get some rest Jane. You’ve earned it.
Wow, that’s weird. I expect Sanchez is under extreme pressure to switch back.
They are. At lot of the Vietnamese who came over supported the Americans during the war. I think they were pretty conservative.
Plus the district is 65% Latino, so pretty much the only way for an Asian to win is to forge an alliance with the Teabaggers who make up the third largest voter group.
I think that Roll Call’s wrong on this one. Maybe someone is trying to use this to whip one or two more insurance votes. Sanchez isn’t a budget-hawk, and she could easily rationalize the deficit spending as balanced by cost savings to her constituents. In fact she could go on a campaign amongst the voters explaining precisely how they, for the first time, could afford insurance. She could speak to workers who were employed by large corporations about how exchanges would reduce the rise in their insurance.
A lot of Vietnamese would also benefit from these changes.
There aren’t a lot of workers there with taxable Cadillac insurance plans- which to my understanding has also been bumped up to higher coverage levels that excludes most union workers. And with Stupak out that’s one other issue out that she was opposed to. Was she intensely opposed to biologics? Is that still in the bill?
217 to 214 it passes…Ya Sanchez will vote against it…Ya sure..like Defazio was going to
There was once a time when supply-sider, Paul Krugman also supported NAFTA!Looking back to 1993, Krugman wrote an article in Foreign Affairs defending NAFTA, and by extension, the right wing mantra of free trade as the end all of modern economics and of the neoliberal economic tradition of Milton Friedman. Krugman is not to be trusted or revered by real leftists whatsoever. I find him to be quite wrong in lots of areas and he likes to have it both ways, all too often.
EXCERPT FROM 1993:
COMMENT
The Uncomfortable Truth about NAFTA: It’s Foreign Policy, Stupid
By Paul Krugman
Foreign Affairs Journal
November/December, 1993
“To the United States, the labor and environmental costs of NAFTA would be minimal and the economic benefits real, but small. The trade agreement is really about helping a friendly and important neighbor in its yet uncompleted economic and political reform….The debate over the proposed North American Free Trade Agreement has taken on an astonishing salience in American politics. Not since the Smoot-Hawley tariff has trade legislation produced such a bitter polarization of opinion…. The intensity of this debate cannot be understood in terms of the real content or likely consequences of the agreement, nor is the debate’s outcome likely to turn on any serious examination of the evidence. It is as hopeless to try to argue with many of NAFTA’s opponents as it would have been to try to convince William Jennings Bryan’s followers that free silver was not the answer to farmers’ problems….. Similarly, the hard-core opposition to NAFTA is rooted in a modern populism that desperately wants to defend industrial America against the forces that are transforming us into a service economy. International trade in general, and trade with Mexico in particular, have very little to do with those forces; clinging to the four percent average tariff the United States currently levies on imports of manufactures from Mexico might save a few low-wage industrial jobs for a little while, but it would do almost nothing to stop or even slow the long-run trends that are the real concern of NAFTA’s opponents….”
So much for this phony-ass Paul Krugman!!!! The man is not to be TRUSTED by real leftists!
Looking at the unknowns..the dems should get all except Lincoln Davis..+14 R wont vote yes..Tanner will retire as will Pomeroy after they both vote yes..All the Stupaks will defect to yes except Berry and maybe Stupak himself
This HCR will be just like all the free trade agreements which brought a lot of jobs to America….
Yeah, this HCR bill will be bring more and better healthcare to Americans as well. Surely…Yeah, bet on it…..
Wake me up and tell me the score in a few years….I want to hear this one.
Considering the timing it would be interesting to know more about this particular fundraiser in Florida.
What’s interesting is that’s not the case in Minnesota. Our Southeast Asian immigrants, particularly the Hmong, tend to be strongly Democratic even though Vang Pao, the self-styled leader of the Hmong, is very much a Republican. However, Vang Pao’s got into a bit of hot water and so might not be the influence he was in the 1970s and 1980s.
That is interesting.
Many Vietnamese are still, like the Cubans, extremely caught up in anti-Communism and easily misled by someone who labels an opponent pro-Communist. Ironically, most were on some form of welfare when the first immigrated. They were led by many of the Generals and Colonels that served in the ARVN when they arrived in the US. So when Clinton softened the embargos on Vietnam it was seen as a slap in the face of these initial Vietnamese immigrants.
Many of the second generation are less conservative, but they still have a good deal of respect for their elders, so you don’t see many that publicly break from the party live.
Top of Drudge Report 12:00 am, Saturday: A final plea from Catholic Bishops to Congressmen concerning abortion.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/u.s._bishops_final_plea_to_congressmen_do_not_pass_pro-abortion_health_care_bill/
When was the last time a bishop had to deal with a pregnancy?
Thank you Rep. Sanchez for listening to your constituents. I wish my Rep. in Congress- Alyson Schwarzt of PA’s 13th district cared what her constituents want, and they want NOTHING of this health care sham.
Npw it seems she is going to resort to Chicago style election tactics to “win ” her reelction. Her seat has been very secure in her liberal county of Philadelphia and burbs- but the Intellegencer reports that all republican applicants to the ballot for the Rep. primary have been legally challenged-and not by anyone with a history of republican activism but all by the same members of the democrat machine. This is how Obama stole his election for his IL state senate seat. His election tot he US senate and the noe so democratic primary were “won” with similar low down dirty tricks.
I guess that is why many democrats have abandoned any fear of reelction. Heak the King now controls the Census and he will show us how to cheat to win!
COMMENT
The Uncomfortable Truth about Healthcare Reform: It’s Domestic Policy, Stupid
By Paul Krugman
The New York Times
circa, 2009/2010
“Listen, my liberal friends, we need to do this. It might be painful, but the days of FDR, JFK and LBJ are gone forever now. We must support this bill because it’s the only hope of keeping President Obama and the Democrats in office. It is time those naysayers understand this reality. Even if you do not like it, the bill cannot be defeated at this time unless those Democrats, unwilling to compromise on behalf of Obama’s agenda would rather see the GOP win back congress in the mid-term elections. Still, this HCR is better than anything that one can expect in this era of neoliberal economics. The days of state run healthcare are over and it is time the liberals and progressives understand this. Unless you all get on board and support the bill, then one can only support the efforts of Markos at DailyKos and George Soros’s Moveon.org to defeat those whiny and crybaby Democrats who do not realize that those liberal ideals of the 1960s and 1970s have been dead as a doornail for decades now.”
Paul Krugman is a professor and so-called leader of the liberal movement in the United States. His column appears twice a week in the very “liberal” New York Times.
[This is not written by Paul Krugman but by me in total sarcasm because I believe this man to be a fraud and no pal of the liberals in America]
In 35 years dealing with a serious chronic illness (from the age of 11)until now, my independence Blue Cross has NEVER turned me down for any medical treatment or drugs. However, the government insurance that all of us who work are forced to pay for-Socail Security Disability Ins. did turn me down as it does to so many seriously ill and legitemately disabled people. The lawer I had to hire to sue S.S.D.I. told me that she had represented people who were turned down by Social Security who died before she ever got to win them their benefits. The Europena can trust their government to their health care, thats their business. But I know my govenment all to well and I would trust the devil before I’d trust the Obama circle of facists with my health care.
I find some Chinese-Americans much more Conservative than Hmong and Vietnamese. They seem to have become involved in banking, development, and realty. And they support and vote for candidates that oppose taxes, zoning restrictions, and unions. In fact, the anti-immigrant Union movement seems to have locked the Chinese out back in 1930′s -1960′s…so many of these second and third generation Chinese have little connection with Unions (except perhaps in the Education fields). Finally the Chinese continued to retain a family network of employment even after two or three generations. Many have also shifted from their Eastern faiths to evangelical Christian sects.
But here too the younger generation are moving away.
What no-one has said yet is that this bill is not going to save the Democratic Party. It may, finally, split the Democrats irreparably. Even if not–how are they going to put the pieces back together?
“Leadership aides say Texas Rep. Ciro Rodriguez promised Pelosi he’d vote yes, but voted no and sprinted from the chamber. California Rep. Xavier Becerra tried unsuccessfully to flag him on his cell phone — and Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) bounded into the ornate Speaker’s Lobby off the floor shouting, “Rodriguez! Rodriguez!” as puzzled reporters looked on.”
THAT IS HILARIOUS!!!
that’s been quite evident for some time. I believe that America, a deeply Kaffee Klatch enamored society, will indeed fail to mobilize and the consequences of that will be dramatic, and disastrous.
Peoples only real leverage has always, throughout history been rooted in their ability to come together in a physically menacing , fierce opposition to injustice. We are nearing the levels of legitimate discontent with our government which crosses party lines, yet in spite of the object of their grievances resting in the Government, the nation remains deeply divided.
If these divisions will not be addressed by both sides, God help us.
This is what pisses me off.
She specifically said she is voting no and people like you insist that she means yes.
Dems in disarray.
Who knew?
Does anyone know what time the official vote will be tomorrow?
And will the roll call be aired anywhere online?
I’m facing a conundrum. The Dems have essentially set themselves up for a lose-lose proposition. If the bill fails, they will be branded as failures. If the bill passes, Republicans will maul them in November over the mandates, IRS enforcement and taxes.
I hate this bill. I think it’s a terrible corporate giveaway that will set back health reform for decades. But here’s the thing. If the bill fails and the Dems are branded as failures, it’s Progressives who will be blamed as spoilers. If the bill passes and the Republicans decimate Dems in the fall, the bill and it’s “centrist” adherents will be blamed.
I almost hope it passes so the ultimate blame can be placed where it is most deserved.
firedoglake will be live blogging it tomorrow
That does not matter at all!!!
That Sirota piece is really good.
What time?
I think the debate begins at 2, will be cut off after 2 hours, then they vote.
it’s not a game, blaming any and all of those bastards will not make any iota of difference to the whole System of social organization, to say nothing of the surprise with which the reality of the disappointment will be met.
By no means do I intend to suggest this is a game. Quite the opposite. I do, however, want an outcome that will not cripple the Progressive movement’s ability to influence positive change in the future.
Sanchez has not said she will vote NO. Leadership has put her in the No column because she went missing and may not be there tomorrow to make the vote so they can’t count on her vote.
Sanchez won her heavily Latino district with 70% of the vote. If she votes No, it’s not because she’s afraid of getting beat.
Sanchez did not say she’s voting NO.
Loo Hoo please read this comment by Jane.
Do you have some special insight beyond what the article says?
But just watching the numbers, the No’s have remained rather steady, while the Yes’s have steadily gained ground. The perks of power and campaign support promises will get them in line…
David Sirota:
“I’m going to have to go with the Kill the Bill crowd. I can’t get over those mandates. You will have to buy insurance or face a fine with IRS enforcement. This is much worse than just a fine. If you miss a hearing on your “fine”, then a judge can order an arrest warrant for you. Yes, I’ve learned this from experience. I believe this was a 16 year old rent bill that wasn’t worth more than 200 bucks. Try using that math with hospital bills that can hit 10 grand with just one emergency visit. Try imagining what kinds of people will be hit hardest with this kind of enforcement: poor blacks and lower class whites in all probability of which I am one of the former.”
cannot shake a ‘conspiracy friendly friend’s ‘ insistence that I should look at a list of FEMA’s detention facilities. I looked and the size of this program is Orwellian.
if anyone missed it; go see the movie Children of Men, pay especial attention to the second note in the movie; it’s background.
Read the title of this article?
That is only because a lot of the yes supporters were only leaners who are now turning into firm yes’, whereas the no supporters were pretty firm the whole time.
I remember 1 update had 15 yes leaners and only 3 no leaners.
Jane,
Did you see my sarcastic post regarding the “liberal champ” Paul Krugman?
Jane–you are the Champ of the “Progressive Movement” at this late hour!!!
If you want to join Radicals like myself, I’d say this might be the most proper name for you anyhow…..Jane Hamsher—the Radical America desperately needs at this late hour of the failing country!
As I often say, these so-called faux “liberals/progressives” are not liberal enough for me….As far as I am concerned many of these faux “liberals/progressives” may as well be Republicans and call themselves right wingers….especially anyone who agrees with this awful HCR bill and Obama’s right wing agenda.
Yes, the “debate” will start at 2:00 p.m. and then on cue they will……
Tom Daschle is the one who called for the Senate to vote on the Iraq War Resolution on October 10, 2002…..Mr. Daschle did not have to do that either….I know though, the Democrats are very “antiwar” and put “people over profits.”
Pass the Vomit Bag!!!!
Anyone else besides me having Internet problems when switching threads here at FDL today?
I swear the Obama administration is trying to mess up my experience here at FDL.
Anyone know if the House gallery will be open tomorrow? I’ll go watch if it’s open (usually not on Sundays, but I dunno what the policy is when there’s a vote).
Still feels like it’s not going to pass….
i’m not having any trouble using firefox 3.6
I certainly understand the argument, bb. Just somebody explain to me why the republicans and insurance industries are fighting so hard.
If it were for corporate gain, the repubs would all be voting yes.
The title of the article does not match the content. Sanchez is MIA. She has not declared her vote.
“Sanchez was nowhere to be found on Saturday — she was in Florida on a fundraising jaunt, two Democratic sources said — and while leaders expected her to return for the Sunday vote on final passage, they weren’t assured. What’s more, leaders now list the Orange County Democrat as a “no” vote.”
How is this not a declaration?
It was also edited into the vote count, so I am sure the source’s credibility has been confirmed.
I have requested that the Catholic Church do the following to its members who vote “yes” on this HCR Bill:
1. deny them communion forever
2. Ex-communicate any Catholic politician who votes for the bill
I am pro-choice and believe in a women’s right to choose 110% but I hope the likes of John Kerry, John Larson, Nancy Pelosi, and other faux “Catholics” who do not live up to the consistency of their Catholic faith and teachings be excommunicated.
One cannot have their cake and eat it too!!! I left the Catholic Church years ago because of their stands against homosexuality and a woman’s right to choose. I stopped taking communion and no longer went to mass on a regular basis.
My uncle is a very anti-secular and conservative priest too. I have talked and argued these issues with him for years now. I also know several bishops myself. I do not agree with them on a lot of the church teachings. I make that clear with them.
I had a priest friend die a few years back. We talked a lot. He was a good man. He got me to be more conscious of environmental issues and I have ever since. I like the church’s stand on helping the poor and its antiwar message as well.
I do not live up the canons of the Catholic Church and admit it. I left the church and no longer believe in its teachings 100%. Thus, I no longer consider myself a Catholic.
If there is one thing that I agree with it is the following: Politicians who do not uphold the teachings or canons of the Catholic Church do not belong calling themselves “practicing Catholics.” They should not take communion either. And, if the Catholic Church wants to ex-communicate these unfaithful Catholics to canon law, then so be it. They should understand that they are not the church and thus, take the consequences coming their way.
I hope the likes of John Larson and Nancy Pelosi are in fact denied communion if they do not know enough to go up to the altar and expect it without making confession–penance for their sins. If the Catholic Church seeks to ex-communicate them, too bad and I do not want to hear fake tears.
I had no problem leaving the Catholic Church when I realized there teachings were not all that and a box of chocolates. If these politicians do not live up to the teachings of the Catholic CHurch, shouldn’t they leave something they do not really adhere to anyway?
She is listed as a NO because she may be a no-show and leadership can’t count on her to help them get to 216. So this is the worst case scenario.
But Sanchez has not spoken about which way she will vote since early last week. None of the information that came out today is from Sanchez.
Have you seen any of the polling about birth-control use among Catholics?
Jeebus, they would be down to nothing.
anti communism runs deep and they see the goopers as the true anti communists….
You mean aside from the obvious “they’re not the ones getting the payoff?”
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/19/the-baucus-caucus-phrma-insurance-hospitals-and-rahm/
When the GOP was in power, they passed Medicare Part D & took PhRMA’s money. When the Dems took the House, they shook their fists and passed medicare prescription drug price netogiation. Now that they have Congress and the White House, the Dems are taking PhRMA’s money and they won’t get near it. The GOP ironically calls them “corrupt” for doing so.
The letter from Boehner to Billy Tauzin reads like it came from a jilted lover:
http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/2009/08/18/boehner-pops-tauzin-in-the-nose/
Everthing the Republicans “don’t like” is not axiomatically good. They just want to be the ones reaping the benefits when the stealing gets done.
Then so be….I left the Catholic Church…..And do not miss it at all….
The Hill
CBC member: Health bill protesters called lawmakers the N-word
By Roxana Tiron and Lauren Victoria Burke - 03/20/10 03:27 PM ET
“….Rep. Andre Carson (D-Ind.) said Saturday that healthcare protesters at the Capitol directed racial epithets at him and Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.) as they walked outside. ….Carson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus along with Lewis, told The Hill that protesters called the lawmakers the N-word.….Tea Party protesters held a rally outside the Capitol on Saturday, which included speeches by Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) and actor Jon Voight, and then proceeded into the halls to lobby members at the 11th hour….Lewis was one of the leaders of the civil rights movement alongside Martin Luther King. Jr….Asked if racial epithets were yelled at him, Lewis responded, “Yes, but it’s OK. I’ve heard this before in the ’60s. A lot of this is just downright hate.”…Rep. Emanuel Cleaver’s (D-Mo.) office said in a statement Saturday evening that one protester had spit on the congressman and was arrested by Capitol Police, but that Cleaver decided not to press charges….”
Full article @:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/88041-cbc-member-says-health-bill-protesters-called-rep-lewis-the-n-word
Jane,
Yes, indeed….Great, and I mean fantastic insights!!!
Well, I agree with that. The republicans are hard at work on the financial institutions right about now…
47th CA district has some of the worst turn out in the nation.
Strong voting by Vietnamese can have an inordinant impact. If my memory serves, Sanchez wins with about 48,000 votes in her district. In other districts, that is what the loser gets.
Typically, some districts have 150,000-200,000 votes cast.
Yes, the birth control issue is very funny indeed…..
A friend and I once quipped that if the Catholic Church asked every woman from the age of say, 27-59, to walk out right now if you ever used birth control even ONCE, they’d have a lot less parishoners in the church. The same goes for the men who use condoms as well….Man, wouldn’t that be an interesting sight to see? Very funny sight to see I must add…..
I actually asked my priest pal who died three years ago by this same point you raise. He was a very liberal priest and one the old ones who was very tolerant of differences and he just laughed. He also thought it to be a very interesting question and one that would not be touched by the higher-ups.
It is funny and interesting though, huh?
Sanchez won with 85K votes, comparable to what Cardoza gets in CA-20. Both are low but she is in no danger.
OK, the House says the gallery is open any time the House is in session. Anyone else going other than me?
I noticed that Sanchez hasn’t actually said herself that she’s voting no, but I hope she does vote NO. I don’t want this bill to pass! An individual mandate without price controls is a recipe for disaster.
Haven’t had problems today, but have had some problems the past few days.
I mean, I understand asking the pious pols to live out their creeds as a protest TO them about their cuddling up with their churches for political reasons. And I deeply admire the skepticism that accompanies it.
And FWIW, I was raised Lutheran, and found my way out rather easily.
Lowering Excise Tax may Kill Reconciliation Bill
Reconciliation requires that an item not make the deficit worse and the lowering of the amount produced by the excise tax in the recon bill does this. This is the item the Repugs will use according to Hatch:
link for above:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=abC_cO2_URXA
Yep, one of the ways the banks are threatening the Dems is by cutting off donations to the DSCC and only giving to the Republicans.
That’s about the time that regulatory reform started to peter out. Not that it wouldn’t have happened anyway, but they were definitely sending a signal.
The Republicans are against this because they won’t be getting the corporate kickback on it; the democrats will. If you look at the corporate position they can’t lose. It passes and they get the mandated customers with no cost controls or it doesn’t pass and they continue squeezing using their same bag of tricks. A classic tails we win, heads you lose for the corporats.
This was posted over @ Salon as well.
[Although who the hell goes to Salon, other than to read Glenn?]
By now I feel numb. I no longer know if it is better for this bill to pass or fail. I heard some Republican say on TV, that hopefully we will be able to put health care reform to rest for another generation. I have heard a lot of talk about “personal responsibility”, as though people maliciously refuse to purchase health insurance. When I attempted to purchase health insurance, I was quoted a price of $1200.00, however, could not purchase health insurance at any price due to preexisting conditions. I do not know how the ordinary citizens of this country are going to survive, considering the entire economic situation, the high price of health insurance, the loss in pensions and decline in housing prices, the unrelenting greed of the corporations. Even people who try to do everything right can never feel secure in this country.
How can progressives be blamed? Nearly every damn one of ‘em is voting “for” the bill.
The insurance companies (AHIP) are fighting hard to make sure the mandate stays in and the public option stays out. In fact, this bill is almost exactly what AHIP’s predecesor, HIAA, proposed back in 1992:
I’m not sure if anything like the last point is implemented in this bill. But this bill contains the first three elements or variations of them – the excise tax takes the place of the income tax: 40% for all affected plans, regardless of the buyers’ income, phased in by initially covering only a few plans but then expanding to tax more and more plans over time.
The Republicans, looney as they are, have no need to vote for this. They get a double-double: the Dems vote for it, the bill passes and pays off the corporate guys who usually can only count on the Republicans to support them, and the Repubs then get to walk away with “clean hands,” point fingers at the Dems for being such a bunch of fascist sell-outs, and stir up the Tea Party folks and get ‘em to vote Republican.
Don’t worry, if this is anywhere near not passing, you can be sure that a couple of those retiring Republicans will “find Jesus” and vote for the bill to assure its passage. Since they’re retiring, they won’t have to defend their vote, and their Republican successor can claim their predecessor’s insanity.
The insurance companies got everything they wanted. Here’s a link to AHIP’s press release from November 19, 2008, outlining their proposal:
Read this:
http://static1.firedoglake.com/1/files/2010/03/mythfactshcr-2.pdf
Should greatly facilitate the decision making process.
Wow, thanks everyone for responding.
So if healthcare is now 17% of the economy, what will it be if the bill passes?
I wonder if Sanchez is voting against this from the left. I know she is for the public option. She’s a member of the blue dog caucus, but she is pretty liberal herself, isn’t she? I know she recently voted for the Kucinich resolution to withdraw from Afghanistan.
Exactly….I cannot stand politicians who use religion as something wonderful….But I do find Catholic politicians who support all three to be quite bothersome…The big three are:
1. abortion
2. wars without just cause – like Iraq and Afghanistan
3. death penalty
When I find Catholic politicians to be in full support of all three–I definitely think ex-communication and denial of communion to be the proper responses by the Church.
By not seeking impeachment for war crimes, Nancy Pelosi abdicated her sacred vow to not only uphold the U.S. Constitution by also becoming a partner in human atrocity herself. Pelosi’s acts of omission by not holding Bush administration officials accountable for their war crimes is to walk all over God. I am sorry but it’s high time to point out these politicians immoral ways.
Private health insurance for profits is by no means an act of God’s grace on theee but an assault on the teachings of Jesus Christ…..for Jesus did not ask for money when he cured people.
I am very much into the teachings of the Historical Jesus.
I abhor these Catholic politicians as well. I dislike all of them…..I do not fault the Catholic Church for their positions. The Church is clear on their abortion stand…..They are more flexible regarding war but the Vatican opposed the war on Iraq. John Kerry supported the war in Iraq and is a proponent of abortion. I also believe he has supported the death penalty in “cases of terrorism.” Thus, Kerry should be excommunicated from the Catholic Church because he FAILS On all three here.
As for economic justice–the Catholic Church opposed the Medicaid and Medicare cuts by the Bush administration….I do not think they will support the many provisions in this HCR Bill besides just the abortion issue either.
The Catholic Church has warned that the excesses of capitalism are not good for mankind, just as much as it opposed Soviet-style Communism.
The insurers are not fighting this at all. They WROTE it Where on earth is your evidence of insurers fighting this? Again, why on earth would you think Republicans would want to help Obama win legislation? Obviously, it is in their political interest not to pass Obama’s legislation.
“If it were for corporate gain, the repubs would all be voting yes.” Woefully naive.
As usual, “progressives” turn out to be their own worst enemies.
The Catholic Church was also anti Iraq War. I guess they ought to deny communion to those who voted for it too. I mean if the Catholic Church is going to use their political positions to decide who who can and can’t recieve communion then it needs to be consistent.
The Vietnamese know socialism sucks. Thats why they fled Vietnam. You think socialism is “cool” because you never had to live under a socialist government. Live in Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea and then tell us how “cool” socialism is.
Your understanding has the depth and insight of a bumper sticker.
The chart has an error. The first green column should show 31 Democrats to add to the 178 Republicans for the 209 total. That’s how arithmetic works.
:)
Your understanding has the depth and insight of a socialist waiting for their next free government handout.
[Modnote; please, let's not make this personal.]
You prove my point once again. Does your head hurt when you try and think for yourself?
[Modnote; please, let's not make this personal.]
I’m looking for news on the Grayson medicare buy in proposal. Is he going to offer it, or has he backed out like Bernie Sanders did? Did I miss the story?
As an exercise in pure political muscle, you have to admire the insurance industry. We now know that the deals with Obama were cut in July. By August, before the town halls, they had the entire debate set up like this:
Worst Case: Republican victory which confirms a profitable status quo and discredits the notion of government regulation.
Best Case: Democrats pass a bill forcing millions of people to become their customers, with no change to the profitable group market and billions of dollars in public subsidies to shore up the collapsing individual market, which rather than exit, they can now continue to operate in, and with the IRS throwing in free collections enforcement.
Since August, they’ve been able to sit back and watch the two factions among their servants tear each other apart to see which gets to serve at table and which has to work in the fields.
Brilliantly conceived strategy and well-executed tactics.
Pelosi will get the votes today.
And Sanchez will vote yes.