Was he ever a yes or a lean yes to begin with? I don’t mean how did he vote the 1st time, I mean was he in the “yes” or “lean yes” count this time around?

Thanks David; If I was near where you are, I’d buy you several beers(if you like beer) or drink of your choice.

David, thanks for your outstanding work on the health care issue. You have made it very clear for us.

As a blue dog, Matheson was likely given permission by Rhambama Pelosi to vote no to save his seat. Congress and the White House love Terra fightin’ Blue Dog Warmongers. They bend over backwards for them. See Joe Lieberman and Blanche Lincoln.

Superb work David. If only the bobbleheads of the corporate media had your dedication and work ethic.

Matheson has been in the “undecided/unknown” column, at least since Wednesday (furthest back I checked)

David, great work.

Dedication to our Corporate overlords and their own fat paychecks – they have in spades. Ethics? What are these strange things you call ethics?

Voting the right way but for the wrong reason. Republicrats still suck.

Looks like they have the votes now. The Stupak 10 is now the Stupak 6, so take 4 votes from there. Then Pelosi only has to hold the previous “yes” votes that are non-Stupak for 6 more. Then she flips the two retiring members of Congress from no to yes. That’s 12 extra votes and that gets you to 216.

Not that I’m not rooting against her, but the die’s been cast for me. If the Dems don’t remove the individual mandate and the health care tax before the next election I’m working against them.

Here’s something to be spread around. From the New England Journal of Medicine:

“The recent experience in Massachusetts suggests that universal health care coverage has been associated with a decrease in the number of abortions performed, despite public and private funding of abortion that is substantially more liberal than the provisions of the federal legislation currently under consideration by Congress. Parties on both sides of the national debate on this issue, including the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, reached an informal consensus early last year that reform should maintain as nearly as possible the status quo, which mostly keeps the federal government out of the abortion business.”

LINK.

This is perhaps the least surprising development, at least for those of us in Utah. I won’t be surprised to learn that Rep. Matheson got a free pass from Rahm to vote “no” once House passage was assured.

Next comes climate change legislation where Orahma will start off negotiations with tax cuts, offshore drilling and subsidized coal mining and burning. Then come the mandates that each of us will have to buy carbon offsets from the power companies so the legislation gets them their fair share.

Rep. Matheson voted “no” last time.

HCR now seems inevitable, despite all major polls showing that the American public wants no part of ObamaCare. Those of you who supported this monstrosity, people apparently devoid of all historical perspective, I have only one request.

Go out into your neighborhoods, take your digital camera with you and capture for prosterity what the condition of the nation is as of now. When you go to describe the wonderous properity we now enjoy to your grandchildren, your going to need proof that your not just making it all up. What we now enjoy will be so far removed from their reality as to strain credulity.

A history Prof I had once pointed out that thus far, no republic in history survived to see it’s 300th B-day, tommorow San Fran Nan & Scary Reid will take a momentus step in implementing ObamaCare that most assuredly ensures that the US will keep that streak alive.

As for me, I am Going Galt and at some safe remove I’ll observe as all the promiswe and potential that has been laid at our fingertips by our predecessors, is with an isidious deterioration denied to those that follow us.

At times I’ve envied my brother his ability to procreate, he has 2, not any longer.

I hope there’s no internet connection in your undisclosed location…

There is always satellite.

Rahm’s to blame lol.. he HAD to have all these Blue Dogs!

Why do people keep saying passage is inevitable, when the math has been getting worse and worse by the day.

You people remind me of the “global warming” people, in that every possible devleopment has an explanation for how this is good news.

“Another blizzard? Well this is obvious PROOF that global warming is real!”

“Another no vote? Well this is obvious PROOF that emperor Pelosi allowed him to vote no and no chance that he just wants to vote no on his own!”

I laugh at the Randians who claim they’re “going Galt.” They never seem to quite get there.

Jon Walker is upstairs!
Republicans Offer Five Amendments To Kill Individual Mandate

Something is going to pass. If this isn’t it, these bastards will water it down again and again until it’s a complete washout. They aren’t letting this one go because they KNOW that the majorities they have right now, are not going to last after the next 2 elections. Big Pharma banked on it, wrote it, and sent the cheques out already, so they HAVE TO pass something.

Watch a few votes and you might feel the same. They don’t bring it to a vote unless they have the votes, generally. Mainly people are speculating, all we can do as nobody in Pelosi’s office is calling to update any of us.

But what else could you remove without the whole plan breaking down completely?

The one thing that could change, which is abortion, seems irreconcilible.

And you cannot keep dragging this on and on or you are going to lose even more seats in November for an even weaker bill?

How does that make sense?

But Pelosi has been claiming she has the votes for 2 weeks now, so why would she all of a sudden be a credible source of information?

I mean going with the current stats, if you split the undecideds 5-5 and the leans 9-1 to the no’s, you have 221 no votes and only 210 yes votes.

Why is it assumed that she can flip 6 more votes?

“Another blizzard? Well this is obvious PROOF that global warming is real!

Individual events are WEATHER, taken as a whole over a period of time, they are CLIMATE. A blizzard in DC in the winter isn’t “proof” of global warming, anymore than “Obamacare” is going to break the United States. Unfortunately both of those trains left the station a long time ago. Bush’s unfunded wars, unregulated capitalism and discredited economic theories ruined this country long before Obama was elected. It began with Reagan and was embraced by both Bushs and Bill Clinton. I would have him spend much less on medicare for all but then I am not being bribed by the insurance companies like he is.
As for climate change, only a person who doesn’t know the difference between weather and climate would make such a specious claim and anybody who doesn’t think we are in the midst of a mass extinction event isn’t paying attention or refuses to accept reality.

Lol, it doesn’t make sense. Remember that we likely only know ten percent of what motivates these people, if that.

I’ve been follow this all day, its been vascilating back and forth. But with Obama’s promised (he’s done so well in keeping these in the past/sarc)it appears 6 of Stupak’s 12 has caved. Without a bloc resistence it is very hard to see how individually any will be able to the pressure, not when its applied the Chicago Way!

Ace has it @6 down, American Thinker @4 down and last I checked Hot Air it was down to 2. Its the last gasps of resistace.

That’s the theory, but Baird and Tanner are by no means assured.

How does it make sense that they have been working on it for a year, and are now wildly cheering for a Dem bill, that is almost identical to a Republican bill? This whole thing doesn’t make any sense, except that the insurance industry wants bailed out, and they are going to get it. Otherwise a totally sensible bill would have been passed long ago.

Who is going to be launching those satellites that will allow you access if our society goes down?
Oops.

I don’t agree that Pelosi’s “releasing” people to vote no, because she’s forced too many people in swing districts to walk the plank already. Clearly she’s fighting for every vote.

I think she has 216 now (as many others do), for the reasons I outlined above: the two retiring members of Congress have said positive things about HCR Part II and they have nothing to lose. The previous ayes will have a hard time explaining a flip-flop to low information voters: they could end up losing both ways. And TheHill is reporting on the disintegration of the Stupak bloc to 6 members; I’m looking at the 4 Stupak members in D+ districts as prime suspects to defect.

I’m just trying to be realistic so people like poor archimedes don’t get so despondent they give up the fight. Progressives have gotten their asses kicked and stabbed in the back on HCR – but we should brace ourselves for the quite likelihood of a final loss, pick ourselves up, and keep fighting.

You forgot to mention that evil Charles Darwin who gave us sekuler hoomanism and took God out of biology. Darwin and all those other godless scientists are responsible for all the liberals having abortions. Plus the world was created 6000 years ago.

CO2 concentrations, 380 ppm and going up.

Because that’s what usually happens. If they have got this far, it’s a safe assumption that they can get it done, not 100% but enough to use it as a starting point. It’s a seriously political game at this point and everybody is spinning their gameplan.

Yeah, *sigh* I believe that she does too. I don’t oppose the bill for the same reasons as archimedes but I don’t oppose it any less. I would have chosen single payer for all. let the insurance companies go back to insuring farms, homes, automobiles and so forth. Lacking that, I would have preferred medicare buy in for all and lacking THAT, medicare buy in for people between 50 and 65. Sadly all we got is an insurance company welfare act that looks like it might also restrict choice.

Yeah I imagine they’re releasing folks now.

That’s the theory, but Baird and Tanner are by no means assured.

But just look at Baird’s last statement on HCR Part II:

http://www.baird.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1056&Itemid=99

The legislation that is currently being discussed in the House of Representatives is far different from the bill I voted against in November 2009.

True, he goes on to say that he’ll have to “read it before deciding”, but that sounds to me like a guy that’s going to vote for the bill at the end of the day. I totally agree John Tanner’s isn’t assured, but what does he have to lose? Besides, if it’s not him, then Dahlkemper could also peel away from the Stupak bloc.

I just think it’s fair to warn people that we’re probably going to lose this particular inning. But it’s not the end of the game.

I just took a considerable loss on my house last month, I returned from looking at RE I consider a “comfortable remove” on Friday, I’ll be making an offer on Monday.

I have been involved in politics since the age of 14, I was not going to jump ship without a fight, ObamaCare is the equivilent of Tet. There may be some battles yet to be one, but the war is done for.

Vladimir Illyich Lenin, a man I presume to be somewhat an authority on Socialism, stated that “Mdicine is the keystone of Socialism”. A keystone, for those not familiar, is that which holds the rest of the structure in place. Its a lock, from which the public will now not be allowed to escape. Thats why the legislation has the threat of imprisonment in it.

Ask yourself, if its such a wonderful thing, why would it need coercion?

But Bush redefined CO2…AND it’s properties! He said it was good for the Enviremunt!

Still haven’t figured out why people think they have the option to consider science “opinion”…

Thats why the legislation has the threat of imprisonment in it.

The legislation has fines in it. I haven’t seen any threats of imprisonment yet except from conspiracy theorists and the inurance companies….yet.

Why obviously the Russians, Chinese, French, Germans, Japaneses & the Indians. It certainly won’t be us, Obama just neutered NASA for the foreseeable future.

Thats why the legislation has the threat of imprisonment in it.

Eventually 2.5% of gross income in fines, the last I saw. The poorest Americans will pay fines of several hundred dollars. Still a heck of a choice: sign up for private health insurance costing up to 10% of your income or pay 2.5% to the IRS (and still have no health insurance). Clearly many middle class people simply can’t afford this.

If the IRS is collecting, and you don’t pay, yes imprisonment is a probability Margaret.

1-2 yrs 1st offense, 5yrs for aggravated. I kid you not. Thats on top or in lieu of fines.

ObamaCare is the equivilent of Tet

Oh Obamacare is a great victory over the Viet Cong by the USA. Hooray. Who could have guessed.

Actually OBama care is predatory capitalism which will transfer more middle class wealth to the upper upper billionaire class. You do not approve?

My Rep. Mike Michaud of ME is a blue dog. His disagreement with the bill is that payments to rural doctors and hospitals will be severely reduced. Hospitals where I live in ME are already laying off employees INCLUDING NURSES.Mid and upper state ME is mostly rural.

Obama just neutered NASA for the foreseeable future.

By canceling Constellation? Are you serious? Look, I’m not happy with the Obama administration’s response to the space program either, probably much less so than you but Constellation wasn’t going to launch satellites anyway. There are still plenty of Delta IIs for the heavy lifting and Obama didn’t mothball the STS program, BUSH did that. Constellation was to be the replacement for human space exploration and has so many design problems that it was becoming a money pit like so many Bush ventures.

Can you provide the text?

No I do not, you make assumptions without data, always leads to false conclusions.

Point to the section and line in the bill where it says that.

Look, I didn’t bring up imprisonment, I only pointed out that it isn’t in the bill being considered and nobody has to point out to me that many people can’t afford it. I’m fifty in two months and have a broken tooth that I can’t get fixed.

Damn Margaret, you sure are well informed!

: )

Why is it always assumed that anti-Obama = pro-Bush? Bush was a disaster, Obama will be even worse. My cab just pulled up, gotta go, night kids.

I love science. Did you see my post?

Actually most of the “climate truthers” are shills for dirty oil, dirty coal or dirty uranium.

‘My cab just pulled up’, I’ll have to remember that one.

Thanks. I’m a scientist. We keep up with each other. :-)

Actually most of the “climate truthers” are shills for dirty oil, dirty coal or dirty uranium.

Or teabaggers who think that science is somebody’s opinion or a plot to take away their guns or freedom. There doesn’t seem to be many others in the denial column other than the wantonly ignorant, the conspiracy people or the paid shills.

Yes, Mr. sold-his-house-at-a-loss is “going Galt” in his cab.

You just have to laugh!

I hadn’t yet. Thanks for directing me to it.

Cool!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CYzURIq8-E

Why is it always assumed that anti-Obama = pro-Bush?

That was never even implied. I was pointing out who made various policy decisions, not that you must be a chimp fan.

I can’t help but notice that he/she never provided the section of the bill that allows for prison terms. methinks we have an Alex Jones fan. I hope his cab driver listens to Air America!

LOL!

For those interested here’s a site people should check out. There are many more. In the 1930′s many Germans waited too long and they are their families regretted their caution.

http://escapeartist.com/

David Dayen is upstairs!
Kurt Schrader Commits To Voting Yes: 205 Yes, 207 No

Thanks. That’s a bit after my time. This one is more my speed.

I remember it well, while ago…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMr-nHIoeVU

Obama’s Bitches—–are the following:

Those members of Congress in the Democratic Party who are too cowardly to stand up to Obama and say no on principles and only to be turned out by Obama and Emanuel as they use prison yard-like threats.

The Obama Bitch List includes most of all:
Dennis Kucinch and the Progressive Caucus and women formerly known as “pro-choice “Feminists”" in the once “proud” Democratic Party.