Will be on MSNBC (via TPM):

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2010/03/stupak_on_health_care_bill.php?ref=fpblg

So, the pro-choice Dems are on board with whatever the hell it is that PLEASES Stupak?

:-)

I’m so glad I’m off this reservation, no matter what happens.

Announcement made… EST 4.07PM continuing now (4.11) Bart Stupak announces he will support universal HCR, no federal funding for abortions, the President will sign an executive order later today.
This makes 220 votes, it’s all down to the House debate rules now,

Who’s the primary challenger against Stupak?
Please.
Pretty, please?

So Stupak declares victory…and the American people lose by being forced to buy private insurance without any assurance that the policies of the past (rescission, cancellation, refusal to pay for treatment) will change.

Kaptur: more care for women who don’t get abortions, no care for those who do.

Marcy Kaptur-”Would it be wonderful if there is a day when women dont have to make a difficult decision about terminating pregnancy.”

No Marcy, that will be the day when human beings will dead as a species.

When he says “sanctity” of life he means sanctity of life BEFORE birth only. AFTER BIRTH all those lives are just lazy bums nursing from the gummint teat and he has to protect his donors from them.

Sanctimonious a _ _.

So angry I can’t type coherently.

These fuckers talking about how they are protecting families and young women who may need to deal with unplanned abortions …

Connie Saltonstall, who has a page on ActBlue.

Stupak’s argument amounts to this logic:

1. If language in the current bills does not prevent federal funding of abortion in community health clinics, then the Obama Exec Ord. will prohibit such funding (even though the EO would have no constitutional or statutory basis).

2. If the language in the current bills already prevents federal funding of abortion in such clinics, then all the BS arguments I made to the contrary were just lies, but I’ve revealed the White House as unprincipled dupes.

Thank you Mr. President, for making me look principled instead of an illogical, lying, opportunistic narcissist.

This is a very creepy bunch. The language sounds as wingnutty as any veteran wingnut out there. Just sickening.

I’m a father.
I am a person of faith.
I value life.
The unborn are not “children”.
A blastocyst is not a human being.
Please.

President listens alright, as long as it is not the public option.

Open wide, House Pro-Choice Caucus…we all know you’ll swallow this.

Truly sickening press conference. Those aren’t Democrats!

From the Pope’s lips to the President’s pen.

Thank you.

Neither are the rest of them!

So how does this affect the dispensation of RU -486? Seems to me, it excludes it.

“The result is that women cannot pick the drug up at a pharmacy but must now receive it directly from a doctor. Due to the possibility of adverse reactions such as excessive bleeding which may require a blood transfusion and incomplete abortion which may require surgical intervention, the drug is only considered safe if a physician who is capable of administering a blood transfusion or a surgical abortion is available to the patient in the event of such emergencies.[35] The approval of mifepristone under Subsection H included a black box warning.”

From here.

have your children
WE NEED CONSCRIPTERS/CANNON FODDER

a poetic bullseye

Watching MSNBC coverage of Stupak — not one of them understands the implications for principle of choice. They all think it’s a blow to the Republicans, because it likely permits approval of the bills.

Stupak is a shameless publicity hound and super-sanctimonious douchebag…

Why was there no Progressive bloc?

“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.” OBIE 2003

Time to lick our wounds, primary these buttheads, and work for improvements to the new health care status quo.

Now that Dems have the votes, will some Republicans flip? Cao? Shadegg?

They’ve forced the President to issue an anti-abortion executive order. That’s not a little thing, not matter how little it changes in the legislation. The Democrats have fallen a long, long way today.

MSNBC is just a sexist, old boys club. They don’t care about women’s rights on that channel. (Now they’ve added the unqualified Luke Russert trying to imitate Tom Brokaw.)

Cynthia Kouril has a few words on this
How Many Times Will Galileo Have to Recant?

This is interesting…..

Pro-life advocates cannot be happy with Stupak’s (and his band of crooks) capitulation here. An executive order will not fly with real anti-abortion advocates.

Pro-choice advocates cannot be happy with the way this whole thing has gone down either.

Either one believes in a women’s right to choose or they do not. On this issue, one cannot have it both ways. The Democrats have wanted to have it both ways on the abortion issue since they perceive it as a “political liability.”

I am pro-choice myself. Frankly, I am tired of these so-called pro-choice Democrats who lack the guts to stand up and shout that “I am for this and nothing you can do will change my view on this matter.”

When I heard that “pro-choice Democrats may now have a problem with the Stupak language” minutes ago on the TV, I wanted to get out my vomit bag and heave into it.

These so-called “pro-choice Democrats” are a freakin joke.

This Healthcare Bill sucks…..Good day….Enjoy the continued screwing we all get…..

One thing will always be sacred in America — that is the Defense Budget and Military Spending and the entire apparatus which funds the present POLICE STATE of AMERICA…..

Take care.

Actually Marcy made a pro-choice type statement in supporting her anti-choice position.

She’s talking about women MAKING the decision. Isn’t she one of the ones who wants to take that choice away from women?

oh yes,
well done allen

I am watching yet another news conference by Bart Stupak “to protect the sanctity of life”. Does he realize that 45,000 people die each year due to lack of health care? Give me a break — “the sanctity of life???” He is another egomaniac looking to advance his own career. This guy is reveling in the publicity and spotlight, and his disingenuous support of abortion rights is a sham. The Hyde amendment is all that is needed. I deeply resent this guy’s narcissistic need to embarrass Obama and his fellow democrats. I do hope that a solid primary candidate can beat him in November.

HERE is BHO lying about single payer

http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-in-03-id-like-to-see-a-single-payer-health-care-plan/

So basically what this brooha with Stupak and his allies is about was giving them cover with his conservative religious base. The language, from what I can see, codifies the Senate language in the Senate bill. This does not go near as far as the Stupak language originally did. This is about protecting conservative pro life members who will vote for this bill because the majority of their base is progressive and pro choice, and will also give them cover and protect the the votes of their conservative pro life minority needed to retain their seats. Again, nothing in this executlve order changes existing law. It sounds like to me Stupak didn’t trust the Senate to keep the Nelson language in the original senate bill, and wanted Obama to put in place this order to ensure whatever came out of the senate would be overruled by his executive order. Now that Obama has codified the right, conservative side of the party, what does he plan to codify the left, progressive of the party. Oh, that’s right, nothing!

The “Sanctity of Life” anti-choice Roman Catholic Pope values life like this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/world/europe/13pope.html

hey Elliot poor Gaileleo

…By the way, Stupak and Kaptur are begging for a primary challenge with this grandstanding, and hijacking of the debate.

Well gee, I’m sure Planned Parenthood and NARAL will be rushing right over to oppose these guys.

Oh, right, PP & NARAL were on the same side as these two in defending women’s rights in this legislation.

MSNBC is just a sexist, old boys club. They don’t care about women’s rights on that channel. (Now they’ve added the unqualified Luke *hic* Russert trying to imitate Tom Brokaw.)

fixed that for ya

I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody.

The latest figures I’ve seen show 17.3% of U.S. GDP spent on healthcare. It’s projected to be over 20% in five years.

They’ve forced the President to issue an anti-abortion executive order.

With this president, I don’t think it took a lot of “forcing.”

I can’t believe this man is the father of two daughters.

Obama should have insisted that Stupit agree to a huge amount of federal funding for free birth control as the price for this shameful executive order crap. That’s the BEST way to prevent abortion.

You Lie.

The biggest meat of the bill is that recission can not happen, neither can denial of coverage, end of benefits, refusal to pay will all become illegal. As well as a mandate to buy coverage.
So, if you are one of those wingnuts that wants to say, “Oh noes! I knows the truths! It doesn’t rilly cover preexisting conditio! It’s a Obama lieeeeee!”
Then, why complain about the mandate? I mean, if all the rest of the bill which you deny exists truly does not exist, then neither does the mandate.
This whole thing is an illusion, it’s not happening, I’m not watching it on my TV because it’s not there. Because “you know” it’s all fake and a conspiracy to ‘force’ you to become a ‘liberal socialist’.
Geez. Please don’t have children.

I can’t believe this man is the father of two daughters.

I guess being an ambitious corporate whore trumps being the father of two daughters.

Mark Thompson on Sirius Left 146 and XM 167 is on right now. He is the biggest ass-kisser of Barack Obama one could ever be. If you think they kiss Obama’s butt on MSNBC, turn on and listen to this guy Mark Thompson. You would think Obama literally walked on water listening to this idiot.

Let see, if health care is not passed yet, and you do something to prevent it from passing, does that mean you didn’t prevent it from passing since it didn’t pass yet?

You can engage in all the mental gymnastics you want. The fact is, if a human being does something, takes some actual action, to prevent something, whatever it is, which “something” without the action would have become a human being, that person taking the action has done an action no different from that of a doctor who refused to perform some action which resulted in a wanted fetus or baby dying.

Joe, my brother in law, is definitely unwanted by me, but I don’t get to kill him (though, at times, I wish I could).

Besides, once the bill is signed, Obama will not sign the letter and there is nothing Stupak can do about it. Stupak knows this, he knows it won’t actually get signed, but he needs the fig leaf.

The pro-choice people, unlike you, are not protesting because they also know Obama is not going to sign it once the bill passes. Likely, it is pre-arranged that way and all sides understand.

Are you admitting he is weak? If he is being “forced” then he is a weak as most people already he knew he was. He signs it the “Executive” Ordeer. He owns it.

By the way, Stupak and Kaptur are begging for a primary challenge with this grandstanding, and hijacking of the debate.

I think a review of what Rayne and Lex, who both seem familiar with the region, have written about the likelihood of a primary challenge being successful is in order. Stupak isn’t going anywhere. The best choice appears to be making him irrelevant by removing as much of his support as possible.

In any case, talking about primaries when where we clearly can’t accomplish them strikes me as pointless.

If anyone has any doubt about this guy’s narcissism, listen to his, “I have 45 votes in the Senate, I need 60…”

I didn’t realize he owned the Senate.

This is just getting surreal to me. Bishops deciding what goes into a bill. Since when did USA give up their sovereignty to the Vatican?

Wow! Now, please Bishop Stupak please use those same morale rationales to raise taxes to take care of the unwanted fetus who become new-borns, then infants, toddlers, teens, tweens and finally “welfare queens”, death row inmates, panhandlers, canon fodder or even congress people.

Because you see, once they’re born unwanted/unloved, they gotta be paid for somehow. Or will you adopt ALL of them. Maybe the Catholic Church can “love” the ones with penises. Give one to your sponsor, Pope Ratzi the Nazi, he does after all know all the tricks from the Inquisition.

I can’t either becaause he certainly doesn’t have any cojones.

Besides, once the bill is signed, Obama will not sign the letter and there is nothing Stupak can do about it.

What??? Obama would break a promise to someone??

I’m in shock.

Yup. We definitely will need to work to improve HCR as passed.

I’d suggest cooling off a bit… maybe a post on the few good points that were accomplished and outreach that walks back some of the scorched earth rhetoric. Maybe some self-reflection as well as to why the brilliantly conceived and well executed progressive Public Option whip failed in the end. Nate did a reasonable job on this at 538 last week, and there’s also this post at openleft that seems to get it right.

Glenn had a post last night along these lines too. Much less sturm und drang, while still giving Obama the comeuppance he deserves.

This asshole continues to brag that “the Hyde language” is in the package. I knew the Demo party was losing it, but I never thought I’d hear anything this egregious. We’re way through the looking glass…

Besides, once the bill is signed, Obama will not sign the letter and there is nothing Stupak can do about it. Stupak knows this, he knows it won’t actually get signed, but he needs the fig leaf.

What planet are you living on? He is not playing 11 dimensional chess on Uranus. He is playing 1 dimensional on the anuses of women. If it were Uranus you might feel differently.

Do the Democrats really care about a woman’s right’s to choose?

I say NO!

The Democrats are believers and advocates of neoliberal economics and are working hard every day to smash the existing state apparatus. Obama wants to cut the deficit and this all part of that scheme. Cutting the deficit means no money to the states. States lacking federal dollars will have to continue to make cuts to education-universities included, state workers fired and let go, prison cuts—prisoners out eariler, infrastructure continuing to rot out and the list goes on…….Social services will also be cut to the poor, elderly, and disabled which actually have started already but not entirely…..I know a disabled man who already had his services cut and a worker only comes to help him once a week now. Soon, he will have no worker there to help him and the next thing they will cut his housing stipend. Oh yes, these Democrats are no better than the GOP when it comes to cutting programs. The Democrats just don’t tell ya front and center this is the GOAL or OBJECTIVE.

The Democrats cut things and tell you it’s for your own good. The Republicans cut things and tell ya that it never should have been there in the first place. But cuts are cuts by either side.

Yeah, I really feel like cooling off as they bargain away my rights.

thanks HOPEY CHANGEY!

Teddy’s upstairs
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/21/liveblog-%E2%80%93-house-floor-debate-on-health-care-bill-two/

A high percentage of the wealth in the world may have a USA zip code. But it is in the gated communities of individuals an not the collective treasury. We need to get the money from where it is. The bloated wealthy.

I know I am not supposed to fed the trolls, but I am this time: Sorry.

cregan writes:
Let see, if health care is not passed yet, and you do something to prevent it from passing, does that mean you didn’t prevent it from passing since it didn’t pass yet?

No.
And, it has passed.

You can engage in all the mental gymnastics you want.

Thank you, but no gymnastics were involved.

The fact is, if a human being does something, takes some actual action, to prevent something, whatever it is, which “something” without the action would have become a human being, that person taking the action has done an action no different from that of a doctor who refused to perform some action which resulted in a wanted fetus or baby dying.

That is not a fact: a blastocyst is not a human being

Joe, my brother in law, is definitely unwanted by me, but I don’t get to kill him (though, at times, I wish I could).

Your brother-in-law is not a blastocyst.

Besides, once the bill is signed, Obama will not sign the letter and there is nothing Stupak can do about it. Stupak knows this, he knows it won’t actually get signed, but he needs the fig leaf.

Interesting: This news comes from where?

The pro-choice people, unlike you, are not protesting because they also know Obama is not going to sign it once the bill passes. Likely, it is pre-arranged that way and all sides understand.

My pro-choice friends are in agreement about defending a woman’s right to choose. I see them voicing their opposition to these anti-choice legislators.

Do you understand that the president is going to sign this bill?

Stupak was just on CNN confirming he’s voting yes – and Blitzer was impressed that Stupak was so committed to health care he was willing to miss watching the Michigan State basketball game.

For those who say the Villagers don’t care about people.

Good day….Enjoy the continued screwing we all get…..

Hope they’re wearing a condom, cause ain’t gonna be no abortion for the bastards it produces.

Strident rhetoric isn’t going to win friends. Alienating fellow progressives that disagree with Jane’s take on HCR is going to marginalize FDL. I suggested cooling off because that’s a first step in re-establishing working relationships with people that agree with you more than they disagree. Making people like that into “the enemy” is going to leave FDL with very few allies and make it even harder to fix the problems in the HCR bill that passes. And I’d like to see FDL working with others to fix those problems and not be a lone voice for better policy.

The EO just says that we aren’t repealing existing bad federal policy on abortion funding. Did anyone think there was a chance to repeal the Hyde Amendment as part of HCR? Really?

Hey, C-SPAN is showing me some new obstruction by the republicans in the House.

What up?

Bower’s list doesn’t add up to a hill of beans, with the exception of the increased Medicaid and community health care subsidies. Those don’t add up to a tenth of the entire bill. Claiming that progressives had an effect on the bill that makes it not quite as regressive as it was is idiotic. It’s still regressives, and the progressives, the largest bloc in Congress, sold out for crumbs. Along the way, they’ve made their word worthless both to their colleagues and their supporters.

Screw the worthless bastards, and anyone who makes excuses for them. Congress works for us. I will take that attitude to my grave, because to accept any less is to accept continued irrelevance for the poor and the middle class in America.

The EO just says that we aren’t repealing existing bad federal policy on abortion funding. Did anyone think there was a chance to repeal the Hyde Amendment as part of HCR? Really?

I disagree.

Now now, don’t you worry your pretty little head about what the men folk are doing to your body.

90% of Merika

Can we now proceed with the defrocking of the bishop?! To a dyslexic God is… he’s not mine but I do believe in a little 7 1/2 year old shih tzu! With good reason. Being pro-choice saves far more lives! Especially if you take an anti-war stand. Justice trumps “just-us”.

So is anyone left among Democrats that Obama has NOT alienated and rolled over so that be could get his very own Mission Accomplished?

BUt he can lose his committee assignments and pork for his district. We need to start whipping members for that.

They’re already illegal – under HIPAA. The anti-rescission language in HR 3590 is exactly the same as the language in HIPAA, already federal law.

Insurance companies routinely ignore the law, rescinding, cancelling and refusing to renew policies when people get seriously ill.

While in some cases state insurance regulators have forced settlements, and in fewer cases still individuals have won court cases against insurers, both of these routes require legal action after the policy has been terminated.

To be able to point at legislation and say ‘it has teeth’ in this area, law would have to turn the process around – require insurers to prevail in court before they could rescind, cancel, or fail to renew a policy.

The current bill will change nothing on rescission.

There is a Washington Post article that puts a positive spin on what they call the Obamas health care overhaul bill. The one thing I do notice is that they do not mention The National Insurance Rate Authority. They do not mention much about insurance rates except that the poor will get some help.

Washington Post: A look at the health care overhaul bill
http://bit.ly/cn2wZq

Note: Health Care is not my primary interest. I am a democracy activist. If the top 40% – 50% income groups HATE this bill then the Dems may be in some trouble.