The New York Times has the story:
The Obama administration is proposing to open vast expanses of water along the Atlantic coastline, the eastern Gulf of Mexico and the north coast of Alaska to oil and natural gas drilling, much of it for the first time, officials said Tuesday.
The proposal — a compromise that will please oil companies and domestic drilling advocates but anger some residents of affected states and many environmental organizations — would end a longstanding moratorium on oil exploration along the East Coast from the northern tip of Delaware to the central coast of Florida, covering 167 million acres of ocean.
Under the plan, the coastline from New Jersey northward would remain closed to all oil and gas activity. So would the Pacific Coast, from Mexico to the Canadian border.
The environmentally sensitive Bristol Bay in southwestern Alaska would be protected and no drilling would be allowed under the plan, officials said. But large tracts in the Chukchi Sea and Beaufort Sea in the Arctic Ocean north of Alaska — nearly 130 million acres — would be eligible for exploration and drilling after extensive studies.
Obama himself will make this announcement today, in just a couple hours.
This is puzzling on a number of levels.
• The LA Times refers to this as a bargaining chip in the climate bill debate, but I see it more like showing your cards before the end of the hand. Why would you let Republicans know about a pre-compromised offshore drilling regime, so that they can push for even more? This won’t garner one Republican vote any more than compromising the health care bill garnered any Republican votes. If this was the result of a negotiation, fine, but this comes BEFORE the negotiation.
• This comes right at a time when core supporters were starting to get energized about the midterm elections and about the President’s performance. There is nobody in the Democratic base who is particularly excited about “Drill Baby Drill.” It’s true that the President actually noted support for it on the campaign trail, at the height of the drilling conversation, but the timing couldn’t be worse for this action. It’s especially galling that students have the most to lose from this plan, a day after Obama signed a groundbreaking piece of legislation specifically aiding students.
• Nobody has been talking about this for close to two years. Conservatives had moved on to other topics, and now this will come rushing back. And instead of crediting the President for basically handing them one of their issues, they’ll criticize him for exempting the West Coast and the Northeast.
Either Obama thinks the climate bill is dead and he’s handing out a couple of the goodies he already promised, or his team has assessed that these tracts won’t be cost-effective enough for oil companies to actually do the drilling, so it’s a low-cost hedge toward moderation. We know that oil companies have thousands of reserve contracts for on-shore drilling sites in the US that they haven’t and probably will not ever explore. They end up on company profiles as “future reserve sites” to prove the stability of their operations to investors. In the end, this may end up being a big giveaway to oil company balance sheets, without the environmental hazards.
I’ll close with this statement from Jonathan Hiskes:
The substances at issue here—oil and natural gas—will eventually be burned, releasing heat-trapping pollutants that cause global warming. If that continues unchecked, it could be the most destructive and unjust phenomena of the coming century. There’s no mention of any of this in the stories from major news outlets. Just sayin’.
UPDATE: One other thing. The leaks I’ve heard about offshore drilling in the climate bill emphasized local control, as in “you can drill if your state wants it.” Maybe that’s a part of this announcement. We’ll have to see.
UPDATE II: Here’s a shock, John Boehner is upset that Obama didn’t open up the entire American coastline. Amazingly, compromising with Republicans doesn’t yield Republican support!




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David, I think it is a mistake if people think that Obama doesn’t want Oil drilling. Politically I think it is a brilliant strategy because he can get out in front of the issue before the rise in oil prices this summer. He learned from the Health Care debate that he can actually screw progressives by starting the debate from the progressives “line in the sand”. I guarantee by the end of the debate the veal pen will be supporting drilling in Anwar and some limited drilling on the West Coast.
So I fail to see how this is a puzzling strategy. What actions in the past have led you to that conclucion? Someday maybe the majority of progressives will learn that Obama is not on their side, but I doubt it.
fail baby fail
Say good bye to Florida Obama the tourist industry won’t like this. I’m not sure how big the tourist and the green vote is in other states but any Dem who votes for this loses them as well.
Yeah, we know the drill. (No pun intended).
I’m getting that feeling of deja vu.
Sensible centrists agree.
Reaching across the
DMZaisle tooil company shillsmoderate Republicansis what the American people want.
All overtures to the GOP ought to be explicitly made conditional on bipartisan cooperation. The R’s don’t cooperate, the compromise gets pulled.
“We tried to meet you half-way; you refused to budge; we go back to our original position.” And this is wrong?
When was O’s secret meeting with oil execs? I missed it.
And this red meat to the IDIOT conservatives will get Orahma exactly ZERO votes. You don’t SOLVE climate change by extracting more sequestered carbon. And since this gambit will get him nothing but obstruction from Republicans, it’s a lose-lose. After 8 years of Bush and now this guy, we need somebody SANE in the White House.
He’s been having secret meetings again. You can’t take your eyes off this guy for a minute.
Obama could have gotten the votes if he said he planned to build a million GM Volts from the states with auto plants.
Heck at 230 MPG would we even need more oil? Much less a Cap and Trade to lower our carbon footprint?
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/35493
If Denmark can give a $40,000 tax credit then we can too!
Probably when he talked to Bush during the transition.
He had the meeting by secure video conference, so it went undetected. It included Dumbya and Cheney.
As I said earlier this morning we need a new ‘T’ shirt for the next election
Shill Baby Shill
I keep thinking that this POS as a pres might actually remember how and by whom he was elected but I guess he is too busy making sweetheart, dirty deals with his corporate masters.
Let’s be clear, Obama is a Republican trapped inside a Democrat’s body. He is right of center of the political spectrum; always has been. That is why we have an escalation in the war, a resumption in building nuclear power plants, a corporate-based healthcare reform approach, offshore drilling, restoration of abstinence funding, anti-choice advocate, a continuation of torture and secrecy policites. Need I go on?
Somebody needs to point out to Orahma the difference between “compromise” and “capitulation”. And not just capitulation, PRE-capitulation.
Cognitive dissonance causing problems at DK.
Nothing to see here, move along, continue attacks on Hamsher.
I heard on democracynow this morning that offshore drilling will provide 2-3 years of oil for the U.S. Energy independence in my time! /s
Obama is shielding himself from attacks from the right, he’s working on re-election. I dislike this oil drilling move; I dislike his stance on reproductive rights; and I dislike his coziness with corporations . . but I am still a fan & believe he’s the best we can hope for at this time. He is a true break from the Nixon to Bush line (including the triangulating Clinton)of southern strategists, government is the problem, corporations are over-regulated, etc.
Another reversal by Obama in favor of conservatives. We progressives elected him, but he seems more interested in getting Republican support than maintaining the support of his base. He seems to not care whether or not Democrats maintain majorities in November. It seems this president can’t stand having the upper hand over conservatives, and seems he is damned determined to reanimate a near dead Republican party. They knock themselves down with this scandal, and the President gives them a helping hand up, dusts them off, and says I hope you are ok.
I have been over a DKos on a thread about this announcement. It a sort of this is OK because Obama is a centerist and back on August 8, 2008
The arguement is that he is better than what we had (true to a point) so he is not betraying anything.
He is banking on the Republicans nominating someone for President neither we nor most true conservatives can stand, (for example, Palin), and we will have no choice but to vote for Obama. Unfortunately, that is more likely than not.
I could easily vote for a Republican in the next election, but if it is some of the yahoos that are being talked about now, I’m not willing to do that to our nation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neodymium_magnet
I see no mention of neodymium magnets being used in Power plant generators.
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/neomaginfo.asp
I wonder if our current power plants are using these magnets? More magnetic power more electricity produced for the same amount of coal.
Whats the ratio of magnet strength and power produced?
This business of “fuck the progressives” is on steroids.
Increase the amount of power generated decrease the amount of coal we burn for power. Power plants produce more pollution than cars.
No need to go on but the list is long and getting longer. He has had a taste of money and power and is now intoxicated with both. I will not be at all surprised to see that he has authorized illegal imprisonment and waterboarding of those that disagree with his policies. Better watch out Jane the Rahm police may well be coming at you!!!!
That bar has been set so low that it is meaningless. Sure Orahma is better than Bush. Arguably losing one leg is better than losing both. I’d much rather keep both of them though.
“They end up on company profiles as “future reserve sites” to prove the stability of their operations to investors. In the end, this may end up being a big giveaway to oil company balance sheets, without the environmental hazards.”
Although I live in one of the affected states, I suspect (hope) this is what’s going on here. As long as demand doesn’t spike, then there will never be a need to drill, or for that matter go to war in the mideast.
Politically, this kind of makes sense-but only if it’s just a carrot to get the oil industry not to vigorously oppose a climate bill.
We can vote for a protest candidate, Green Party for instance. We’ve got to make a stand.
It’ won’t be Palin or Bachmann. It’ll be someone slightly less dangerous, like Pawlenty, Romney or maybe Huckleberry Hound. But whoever it is will have their hands tied by the anti-tax nutballs, so the economy will get worse. Then maybe after four years we can get a progressive candidate (possibly by forming a new Progressive Party).
He is a POS mendacious bastard just like his predecessor….in fact worse
Obama is moving the conservative agenda more effectively than any conservative administration.
Being that he is lower than a snake in the grass he will have no problem getting under it.
http://www.naturalgas.org/environment/naturalgas.asp
My bold more fossil fuels burned in power plants more pollution. We need to upgrade our power plants never mind the magnet idea many power plants were grandfathered in before new pollution rules took effect and are very polluting and wasteful of energy.
Its cheaper to just keep those plants running rather than replace them. Obama could encourage new power plants being built.
Obama could do even better if he went green what ever happened to Wind Power?
Anyone want to predict who will next jump into the Veal Pen. I predict the Sierra Club will jump in head first.
I like to call K-Street, the PR propaganda firms and the dee cee press corps, and their cronies, the Pig Pen.
I guess his overarching strategy to lower energy costs also includes $8B for new nuclear plants.
I’m more inclined to believe the Repubs are going to end up with someone more respectable, but I’m counting on this period of their insanity going away, once they realize they are losing most Americans. Since I couldn’t believe they would be this totally stupid, I have a better than 50/50 chance of being wrong.
One thing I can say about Oh Bummah! is that he is saving me money now that I do not give to Dem politicians, MOveon, NARAL and many others that have jumped into bed with him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_power_station
We need Green Power not more Coal, Oil and Natural power plants if we ever hope to reduce our carbon footprint.
Actually, our big power plants don’t use perminant magnets, they use an electromagnet.
Basically, they spin the generator up to it’s optimal RPM, normally around 1200, then control the energy output buy upping the amount of current that flows through the electromagnet.
Boxturtle (Yes, I’m a science and engineering geek)
Barack Ronald Bush Nixon Obama?
Like I keep saying. The health care debate proved it. They are all pod people now. All the rest of them. The wingnuts, the Kossers, the HuffandPo’s and the terminally clueless. You are massively, hopelessly outnumbered. Get out while you still can!
Liberal politics is screwed.
Thinking you are right here (no pun intended). Anybody that still supports the Dem Party after this administration and after this Dem Congress has something wrong with their heads. Seriously wrong. This Presidency is turning out to be the best rightwing (saying what it truly is) presidency ever. No amount of partisan BS can change (TM) that. Vote this snake out in 2012. Doesn’t matter who it is, it won’t be any worse. And it has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, there is no way in hell you can get any kind of change through the current system of supporting the lesser of two evils, or running supposed progressive primary challengers.
Like health care, this is not about getting the votes of Republican politicians. It is about proving to the big corporations, health insurance and oil respectively, that he can deliver what they demand in exchange for campaign cash. It is about proving to big corporations that he and the Democratic Party are a sure bet, and the Republican Party is not.
Down the line, expect him to serve up his masterpiece to Wall Street and the banks, when he delivers to them Social Security on a Democratic platter.
What set of Corp. pricks hasn’t this guy sold himself to?
Some of the smallest generators commonly found power bicycle lights. These tend to be 0.5 ampere, permanent-magnet alternators supplying 3-6 W at 6 V or 12 V. Being powered by the rider, efficiency is at a premium, so these may incorporate rare-earth magnets and are designed and manufactured with great precision. Nevertheless, the maximum efficiency is only around 80% for the best of these generators—60% is more typical—due in part to the rolling friction at the tire-generator interface from poor alignment, the small size of the generator, bearing losses and cheap design. The use of permanent magnets means that efficiency falls even further at high speeds because the magnetic field strength cannot be controlled in any way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_generator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_power_station
My bold So 80- 60 % efficiency with rare-earth magnets ( another word for neodymium magnets )and better ball bearings vs 50% efficiency for gas and 35% for oil and coal.
Look at my 45 would neodymium magnets be better than electromagnets or am I missing something?
He’s just following Cheney’s notes. He has to have the Bush Playbook. First, he okays whaling for the Japanese and now this?
I just remembered the wonderful game of ‘oligarchy’.
Really, everyone try it! Then tell me what you think. I’m sending it to the tip line, so expect a feature later.
Sorry this should have been in quotes on my 45.
It is priceless. East Coast Republicans get to watch drilling from their oceanview second homes as the tourism and fishery industries in their state dry up.
Mr. “EPA don’t regulate me” Lindsey Graham is already opposing drilling off the South Carolina coast.
Drill, baby, drill – but not in my backyard.
Get my popcorn.
Nixon was more liberal. At least his health plan was. And he signed the Clean Air Act in 1970.
I’m not voting Dem. anymore after 40+ yrs. , no more votes, $$ or vol. work for these people. I’ll probably either vote Green or Socialist Worker or Indie but never Dem. again. Enough.
testing … please forgive me for making this test comment. actual comments to come, for now, this is a test :-)
Funny isn’t it, oil man Bush wouldn’t touch this but Barry Ohrahma stepped right in it. Thankfully the West Coast is left alone, but this is a big set back for the environmental movement. The thing to do now is demand that environmental groups get tough on Obama. And in our own lives to continue to use less, it’s a drop in the bucket but leading by example works. Also this is so blatantly political, people on the East Coast are more favorable to drilling, had he done this one the West Coast he’d be looking at a full scale revolt, this thing was focus grouped and polled to death. What is next? I’m watching CSPAN, that little puritan prick Salazar is about to introduce his majesty…..
Alaska’s on the list for 2017. What do you suppose Sarah will say?
How about a $40,000 tax credit for an american made bike or taking the bus, or riding the train, or dare I say walking! To me that would make a much bigger difference in our environment than putting more cars on the road.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroelectricity#Calculating_the_amount_of_available_power
Another idea but salmon and barge traffic could be problems.
Ha! That’s funny. Something tells me Obama knew he’d get that reaction from those R Senators and C-critters.
OIl pressure is ok, tires are correctly inflated, seat belts are on, gas tank is full you are ready to roll.
I’m afraid that what’s next is oil shale in Colorado…. Anyone who knows a thing or two about the oil shale and tar sand industry in northern Alberta knows that this is bad news….
Obama and his disastrous stooge of an Interior Secretary Ken Rancher Salazar seem intent on destroying the natural world.
There seems no depths to which they won’t stoop. And instead of doing renewables right – roof top solar and the like – it is all about pouring huge sums of tax dollars into the same old dirty energy actors who propose to build giant destructive plants in the west’s public lands. Keeping a lockhold in energy in the hands of a very few.
Tax credits for bikes and bike lanes in cities a good idea and for electric busses we have some in Seattle I’m very Cool with that.
At this point, there is no depth to which some will not sink in their defense of Obama. It is just a cult of personality at this point, policy and principle be damned.
Based on what is happening, I’m not sure how McCain would have been much different than Obama except on Supreme Court justices and VP choice.
That’s only, like, 7 American dollars though, right? /s
Jon Walker has a fresh cross-post up: New Health Care Law a Republican Plan That Should Make Insurance Companies Proud
Crap you are right thats next.
We can only assume that the Dems in Congress would stop any dumbass president that wanted to start off shore drilling, curb women’s access to health or institute a fine for people because they are unable to afford health care.
Seem familiar? Didn’t we see something similar in another recent piece of legislation?
I’m really being left with the conclusion that Obama promised us everything we wanted to hear with absolutely no intention of following through on any of it.
We were promised clean energy, government subsidy of renewable researchers, etc. This is so far from it.
After washing my mouth out with Student Loan Reform and feeling minty fresh for a while that bad taste is coming back.
Don’t think he’s capitulating Maragaret as these are the policies he believes in. Sheeps Clothing …
Well the good news about drilling and oil shale, ON LAND, is that’s very unpopular, because people can see it. I think the majority still think that the oceans are just vast wastelands that don’t matter, don’t affect us. And hey, I can’t see it, it’s not there! Bull Shit!
Everyone who writes to the White House has to make it clear that you don’t vote for people, you vote for policies, or, more to the point, you vote against bad policies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_generator
Our coal, oil and gas plants are at their best producing power when they burn the most Coal, Oil, Gas at peak hours . These magnets produce power best at lower speeds. However I think the magnetic field can be controlled if we design generators where the magnets can be moved closer and farther away as needed.
Its impractical for a small generator but maybe not for a large one.
Nd magnets are smaller for the same strength, that’s their only advantage. With a power plant, we’ve got plenty of room for the cheaper.
You don’t want to use perm magnets in a power plant. If you did, you’d have to control the output by adjusting the generator RPMs and that’s slow. With an electromagnet, you just increase the current flow.
If there were ND wire in the exciter (the technical term for the big electromagnet) there would be somewhat less resistance and it will take less energy to achieve the same current flow. But that amount is trivial. even if you were to use superconductor, you wouldn’t save that much.
Boxturtle (A big coal power plant typically uses 10% of it’s generated electricity)
Right now Obama is telling us why this isn’t neccessary and apparently that’s why we should do it! DRILL BABY DRILL!!!! I suppose Sara Palin needed a victory. I know I’ve been feeling very sorry for her. Let’s thank Obama for being such a nice, go along to get along kinda guy. Isn’t he dreamy! War = Peace, Slavery = Freedom etc etc
There’s a few more, Technology, portions of Manufacturing (that still resides in the US), and the Environmental giveaways are just starting. He’s doing nothing to prevent foreign carp from decimating the Great Lakes, he’s actually fighting simple methods that could stop it
Maybe leave spaces when you wrap the copper wire so the magnets have a connection to an outside mechanism that can push them closer or pull them farther away thus regulating the magnetic field?
I think if I had a choice to vote between Nixon and Obama. I would vote for Nixon.
be careful for what we wish for …
Rare-earth magnets are used where there is a need for a lighter, smaller magnet, at significant extra cost.
Electricity plants use electro-magnets, which are larger, true, but much less expensive.
You cannot get more electricity out of an electricity plant without putting more energy in, and more equipment to convert the extra energy to electricity.
Please do not post such nonsense. Please go an get a thorough knowledge of the second law of thermodynamics.
Plase do not post such nonsense. Please go an get a thourgh knowledge of the second law of thermodynamics.
it’s the Watergate part of Bambi that the Nixon bit represents. Take the worst of the three, and sum them over Obama!
North Carolina is moving forward on an over-the-horizon wind farm project. I think that the Democratically controlled state government would fight even the prospect of drilling very hard.
The exploration area in the Beaufort Sea has the potential for tapping the oil under ANWR, thus taking the pressure off land drilling in the wildlife refuge.
Bristol Bay in Alaska is now off limits. I’m sure Sarah Palin will be relieved. But so will the Alaskan fishing industry.
The problem with Nixon in the eyes of ‘true conservatives,’ in the 60s and 70s was the ‘only Nixon could go to China thing’ meaning: (failed oilman) Bush wouldn’t have touched this with a ten foot pole, well he didn’t anyways. But only a supposed ‘liberal’ (in the terms the MSM use, meaning a Democrat = a liberal) could have the cover to do this. John Kennedy didn’t go to China, even LBJ couldn’t have ‘gone to China,’ only Nixon could go to China! Only Obama could really sell us out to big oil completely, because he’s not an oilman, is supposedly against all the things oilmen are for, but hey, who needs principles when you have polling and focus groups!
and the ‘genius’ political mind of Rahm Emmanuel and Jim Messina!
He’s afriad of Sarah Palin. This is beautiful. Obama is always thinking about his re-election campaign. Just lovely.
They are alternators. In generan, the alternators must rotate at some fraction of 3600 RPM (in the US) to syncronize with the 60 Hz grid.
ND wire (if possible, most rare earth magnets are ceramics) has lesss restivity than copper? This is very doubtful. Gold and Silver have a lower restivity, but slightly more expense.
There is an optimum speed for a large generator to run, for a coal plant it’s normally about 1200 RPM. Anytime your run less than that, you’re wasting power.
So we run the generator up to optimum speed and then work with the electromagnetic field strength by varying the current in the coils.
We could vary the field strength in the way you describe. But imagine the complex system of motors that would have to be installed in the generator to move large, heavy magnet fractions of an inch accurately and rapidly.
See, the generator itself is pretty efficient. If you want to save energy in power generation, you gotta look at how we make the steam.
Boxturtle (Though a superconducting generator in a liquid nitorgen pool would be ,ah, cool, no?)
Unless its an emergency you don’t need the power right away you could slowly bring up the boiler temp and use mechanical means to move the magnets closer or farther as required.
These neodymium magnet generators I think could work. Thanks for letting me bounce ideas off you your practical objections have helped get me past some problems I had writing about this.
I think I’m almost ready to do a Diary.
This is exactly why the progressive caucus should have handed Obama a defeat. He no longer fears his base.
I believe the poster is referring to efficiencies …
maybe there is a different forum on which we can debate how entropy and enthalpy could be applied to electric generation equipment?
“you can drill if your state wants it.”
my deja wont quit vuing. although I doubt there’s a “concious clause” for more progressive govs
and David your explanation of possible help to Big Oil balance sheets makes a whole lot of sense – the Hangin’ Tough/Fierce Pragmatist crowd will be a-lovin it – “brilliant jiu-jitsu!” oy
Is the drilling an issue, or is it the spilling? Drilling or spilling?
Or is it the release of carbon?
I’m a self-identified liberal, but I won’t knee-jerk in opposition to a proposal I haven’t even heard yet, just because “drill, baby drill” was a phrase used by a bunch of jerks during the last election.
The real problem with this is the NIMBY thing, people are against nuclear power, in their back yard, people are against coal power, in their back yard, against mining, in their back yard, but who’s backyard is the ocean? People believe what they see and ignore what they don’t, unless it’s ‘drilled’ (pun intended) into them that something they can’t see actually effects them. The oceans are the perfect example of how badly we’ve failed as a species, the garbage island that is the largest island in the world now, it’s the size of Texas and experts say we don’t have any way of cleaning it up. But hey, I’ve never seen that garbage Island, so I’m sure it doesn’t matter to me. It’s okay if the oceans are reduced to a toxic stew, after all, I live on land, very far inland in my case! After all Nebraska isn’t effected by the ocean! What happens in the oceans doesn’t stay in the oceans. Until enough people care about things they don’t ‘see’ we’re fucked.
You are comparing apples & oranges.
The maximun possible efficieny for any power plant is 50%. The wikipedia article comment for 50% on combined cycle plants having a 50% efficiency is wrong. This from the input fuel to output energy.
Then you believe you can get 80% for a small generator? Only if you measure sharft input energy and electrical output energy. Here the input energy is measured at a differnet point than the power plant. A power station electric alternator is about 95% efficient when measure in this manner.
But, and this is a huge but, you haven’t included the electrical version of the second law of thermodynamics, the maximum power therom. Nor have you accounted for the electricy lost in transmission, which is huge.
Correct. I was trying to avoid getting too deep in the weeds, TCU’s idea fails on a much more easily explained level. Don’t be so hard on him/her, the block diagrams of power plants look pretty simple and not uncommon for people to oversimpify.
You can come up with ND alloy wires that will have less resistivity per foot than the same size copper wire, but the difference is very small (both numbers are very close to zero) and the cost difference will be huge. It’s tough to find a better conductor than copper for the price.
Boxturtle (Sometimes we have to use steel as it holds up to heat better)
Don’t matter where we drill or how much we drill… it just doesn’t make economic sense let alone environmental sense.
Slap down comprehensive light rail systems in all of our urban centers and surrounding suburbs.
On a per capita basis we’d consume less oil and less steel in our transport sector. That would give our economy a mighty boost.
Same goes for freight, replace long haul trucking with freight rail.
oil spills, increased carbon output, and it hampers the message of environmental groups that naively put their full weight behind Obama. The poltics are as bad as anything, it will have a ripple effect on other environmental issues, it muddies the water, figuratively and literally speaking. This is bad news anyway you look at it. Let’s hope it doesn’t amount to much and in the mean time do what we can to make it clear that at least some of us are not worshiping in the ‘church of the savvy,’ and everyone of us has a responsibility to use less energy, use it smarter and do more with less. That is the answer, make it clear that politicians are behind the curve.
The optimun speed is dependant on grid sync, 60 Hz. 1200 RPM is the compromise between greater rotational speed, more efficiency, less electro-magnets, and the safty margin of the strenght of the steel in the rotor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_power_station
Cost? 100 tons of coal a day $50-60 a ton but up to 5 times that amount during peak periods like summer when everyone has the AC on given the lifespan of a Coal power plant I think an increase from 35% to 80-60%
efficiency would pay for itself.
Yes more equipment like better magnets and a mechanical way to move the magnets closer or farther to regulate the energy. placing the magnets on a pivot counterbalanced with an equal weight would reduce the amount of energy needed to move the magnets.
Given the low levels of efficiency in power generation I don’t think we have to worry about the limit of the maximum value at equilibrium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics
my bold
Unh, no. Oversimplified example: I turn off my TV. That’s an immediate reduction in the amount of power needed in the grid. The generator must adjust to that, as the grid doesn’t really store power. Multiply that times every power drain on the network. The grid and the generator have to respond just that fast.
Boxturtle (Synoia, I know about inductor stations but I’m trying to keep it simple)
Thank you. I always wonder why it seemed that all the big generators I’ve seen ran at about 1200 rpm. I knew it was a magic number, didn’t know where it came from.
Boxturtle (I have now learned something new. My day is complete)
that would blow doors off of my ideas link?
All of the above.
The primary motive is to keep more corporate cash flowing into Dem coffers than those of the opposition. No need to worry about progressive backlash in light of the nationwide chorus of “Thank-you Sir, may I have another?” which followed passage of the Senate HCR bill.
Any chance we can move the 2012 election up a few years? Can we just get this over with? I’m not going to support him or any of the current bunch of Democrats in Congress right now, but I’m tired of hearing the “left wing” proposing all these conservative ideas. Need to hurry up and replace all our “liberal” brethren with whatever trash comes in from the right so perhaps the left can regain its sense of itself and realize they aren’t Republicans.
I’d like to know if our Continental Shelf contains enough oil to justify drilling it. Now if the oil industry demands huge subsidies for drilling there, then we’ll know for sure that this drilling isn’t justifiable. After all, if our Continental Shelf contains enough oil, and especially “easy oil”, to justify drilling it, then the oil industry will ask for little, if any, subsidies for doing so. But given that Obama has proven time and time again that he’s deep within the pockets of Corporate America, the oil industry is probably looking to turn a profit not by competing in free market, but by sucking off the teat of the taxpayer, just as the banking and insurance industries have done.
I’d like to think that this is Mr. Obama, demonstrating that he is the worst poker player to live in the White House since Millard Fillmore. Sadly, I think this is Mr. Obama stepping out of his neo-con closet with a woosh and a swagger.
The good news? Well even here in conservative Lincoln, Nebraska (well it’s certainly conservative in my eyes, people from rural Nebraska think Lincoln is San Fransisco or something, if only!) people are really doing a lot to use less energy, bike paths are being built, the schools are being retrofitted to be much more efficient, we’re using less water, building codes are getting better on that front and there are even some initiatives to stop urban sprawl from going unchecked as it is up the road in Omaha. Local initiatives can’t be dismissed. The cliche about thinking globally and acting locally is absolutely right. Though it can’t be the end of our efforts; Plant trees, make your house more efficient, drive an efficient car as little as possible and do what you can. It does make a difference, I see it in my own community and it does give me hope, and not that Obama brand of hope either! Real hope that is the product of tangible gains.
Move the magnets? That’s nuts. They’d fail at some point, and many tons of rotating machinery would stop suddenly, and fly around the generating room.
The electical windings in an electro-magenet move. So do the windings in a transformer. Both machines fail (explode) becuase of the movement of windings.
If you want to know why they move look into the vector diagram of electrical current, magnetic field and motion. Explaned by Fleming’s left hand law for generators.
The large alternators are already over 95% efficient. It’s the heat transfer that reduces the efficiency, not the alternator efficiency that matters.
Link? That concept is so far into science fiction it’s scary. And there’s no reason to go there. The generator in a large power plant, by itself, is pretty efficient. And if you factor in cost per watt, it’s a bargain.
If you want to improve power generation, you gotta look at how the steam is made and the exhaust gas is processed.
Boxturtle (The devil is in the details)
The solution to the cost of running AC is to open the damn window, and build so the incident hot sunlight is kept off the building (aka: shade).
A/c treats the symptoms. It’s not a cure.
Trees are a cure.
Some ideas for people who are thinking what they can do now, in their own lives, to decrease their energy use:
-replace your fridge! Especially if it’s older than ten or twenty years
-insulation, insulation and more insulation
-replace old windows with new high efficiency windows
-get an efficient car and use it less
-get a bike
-eat less meat, especially beef, it’s good for ya too!
-demand environmental groups you belong to support policies not cultish leaders
-plant drought tolerant, native trees, especially hardwoods if they’ll do well in your area
-get a rain barrel or more than one
-shop consciously, buy local
-buy fewer clothes, this is bigger than people think
-buy products made in your neck of the woods if possible
-get rid of your lawn, replace it with drought tolerant woody species and perennials, this is rewarding in many ways
-replace appliances, as needed, with energy efficient models
-lobby your mayor and city council and state legislators to start local initiatives
My point is we have to take our future into our own hands and there is so much you can do, I’m sure I’m leaving out many large things. What am I forgetting?
BoxT, you appear knowledgable, what’s you expertise? (Mine’s an EE degree ).
What’s that contraption? It’s a Folly Mr Fulton …
High electrical currents destroy the superconducting effect, the electrons stop moving in straight lines in the metal lattice, and get deflected and hit metal atoms, and the kenetic energy in the electrons is converted into atomic vibration or heat.
Measuring shaft ? input energy does not seem impossible measuring the temp in the boiler and coordinating that with the distance from the magnetic fields again not impossible. Computerized fuel injection in cars where fuel is adjusted for engine output does something similar.
State your objection as I see it going from 35% to 60% is not all that impossible so that laws of Physics get broken.:)
As far as loss of power during transmission that is still happening under our present system.
Even a 10% increase in power when you use 100 short tons of coal on a slow day from one coal plant would make this worth it.
A 10% decrease in all our coal plants of coal use and pollution and we might not need Cap and Trade at all.
Barack W. Bush and Rahm Cheney selling the influence of the office of POTUS to corporate fat-cats in exchange for
kickbackscampaign contributions again.We may as well forget about all reforms, all environmental issues, rule of law, and any/every item on the progressive agenda for the rest of this administration, since they are clearly dedicated to giving away all public property and natural resources to the same entrenched corporate thieves as the last crooked administration. We’ve been lied to and cheated.Every day President Rahm and his sidekick Barry are looking for more corporate boots to lick, more public property to give away, more ways to swindle the American people and thereby enrich themselves. They are the enemies of all working Americans, the servants of ill-gotten wealth.
This isn’t about getting Republican support for anything, it’s about ingratiating themselves to fat-assed rich people in the hopes of getting rich themselves. Anything for a buck. This administration is just as crooked and despicable as the last. We’d better start looking for a progressive candidate for 2012, because the current Corporate-Toady-In-Chief has got to go.
Permanent Republican Majority – ACHIEVED!!!
Drill, baby, drill.
Now who here was saying that it would be so much worse to have Palin in charge? I ask again: what the eff’s the difference between Palin and Rahmbama???
Heritage Foundation writes the Wellpoint Welfare legislation – correct me if I’m wrong or stupid, but, uh, Heritage Foundation is Republican.
Rahmbama does back room deals with Big Pharma at the expense of the US Taxpayer… a real Republican corporate deal.
Millions of bail outs for the Wall Street, Big Insurance, the Detroit 3 automakers (at the expense of the unionized workers, of course).
And now (ta daaa!): Drill, baby, drill.
Please advise me how ObamaRama is ANY different from Palin-McCain, or for that matter, Dick Cheney-W Bush???????
Not seeing a damn bit of difference. What a load of rubbish. Well, I’ve already changed my party affiliation to Independent.
The so-called “Democrats” are nothing more than one branch of the ONE corporatist-Republican party that is ruining our country.
If the veal pen wishes to have fantasies to the contrary, I guess that’s their right. Spare me the bullshit. What a load of crap, but totally completely utterly unsurprising at this point.
I thought of something else;
-put solar panels on your roof!
-put a small wind turbine on your roof, especially if you live in a windy coastal or Midwestern part of the country
-buy renewable energy from your utility company if possible
-turn your lights off and your computers and unplug things when not using them if possible
-if you’re a big spender put skylights in your house, they’re pleasant and they’ll save you lots of $ on lighting
Another way of saying it. Couldn’t agree more.
Its pretty clear that Obama and the Democrats are just another political enemy of anyone liberal/left/progressive.
but they don’t stop offending at those political lines and that might be the good news
I was thinking more along the lines of being a paraplegic is arguably better than being a quad — but they both suck.
Unfortunately that’s true, if my crap Senator, Ben Nelson, passes for Democrat them we’re all really screwed!
Most boilers are not burning coal at optimal temperature unless they are at Peak Load or burning 500 short tons of coal a day.
I assume the generator is set up to reach that speed at peak power. So yes most of the time generators are not working at peak power.
You and Synoia are giving me plenty of good objections to think about. I’ll hold off a diary for now.
I know what my dream energy policy would be (100% renewable) but I have no idea how to get there from here. What if opening up these reserves as policy (or, if it’s simply a political move, getting them out of play in the next election) actually moves us closer to the dream?
B.S. in computer science and a monthly reader of National Geographic and Scientific American since I was 10. I also have had a geek interest in power generation and transmission for the last decade or so, thus read more deeply into the subject.
I can also discourse on subatomic physics, nuclear weapons, and the proper use of vanilla in cooking.
Boxturtle (I also hold a Ph.D. in Lipton Onion Soup)
As noted these magnets are more efficient at lower speeds.
why so many geeks and dweebs hanging out here today?
ee/cs
What I’ve been wondering is when the environmental groups are going to realize they’ve been sold down the river. The Sierra Club recently pushed out Carl Pope and that’s great, but I’m not seeing much change in their behavior. Everyone on hear should read this article in The Nation and think long and hard before supporting a specific group. John Muir is rolling in his grave.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20100322/hari
Well said.
The real axis of evil is not
Iraq
North Korea
Iran
none of the above are any threat to the average american that tries to make a living in this nation
the real axis of evil, to the american people is
1 Current Dems in congress
2 Current Reps in congress
3 The White House
I don’t think George Washington, Benjamin Frankin, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, would like the idea of govt. by corporations for corporations.
They are the most dangerous enemy. Talk great, shaft in backdoor.
See Synoia @97. The 1200 is a magic number for other reasons.
It is most efficient for a large electric plant to operate at peak all the time. Overhead costs are basically the same if you’re generating 1kw or 1gw.
Boxturtle (Coal always burns at the same temprature, btw)
Well I guess we can hope, but I’m not convinced that this is going to buy Obama any political capitol and I’m not convinced that even people who are for this think it’s more than a drop in the bucket of our energy needs. I am convinced that this is a great way to shit on liberals though! What’s needed is a coherent energy policy that focuses on the future. Funny how Obama doesn’t want to only look forward in this case. He’s not buying himself anything but suspicion on all sides.
and if does buy Obama some political capitol what can we expect him to spend it on? Or rather waste it on.
Next Idea a series of smaller boilers always running at peak temp as more power is needed you bring another boiler on line Now I need to research power plant efficiency at peak vs normal load time and how long it takes to get a boiler on line.
Pity that this “Democratic” administration hadn’t assessed whether Big Oil was actually drilling on the leases it already has. They seem to be stockpiling assets, not producing, the sort of thing DeBeers is famous for, which drives up prices rather than increase supply.
The gain is corporate cash that will be used to fund Dem campaigns. That, as much as anything will inspire Republican opposition.
I’ve been sampling comments at other sites. All the same “progressives” who hailed the HCR bill as the biggest improvement in health care delivery since Jesus Christ appear to be embracing this move by Dear Leader, calling it a pragmatic step toward a sound energy policy.
But they’re still scaring the hell out of me on some days
god damn, it makes me sick how willing people are to buy into this cult of personality. But doesn’t Obama look hot in that Bomber Jacket!
that last bit was sarcastic, wanted to make that crystal clear, if it wasn’t
Its is most efficient yes but its not done all the time. Overhead costs are one thing but coal costs to go up if you generate more power.
But if the goal is to reduce pollution running as many boilers as you can at peak conditions reduces pollution spare capacity to provide power should be done with green power.
I’m lovin’ it :D
couple years back, one of our longtime firedogs technically unpacked the then bs on Iran’s centrifuges – so much to be had here :D
Rick Perlstein said recently that ‘no matter what Obama does the Right will still call him Shaka-Zulu-Hitler-Stalin, the tribal lines are drawn.’ I’m paraphrasing some, but that’s a very valid point. Obama is operating as if America is one big happy family. He ignores Henry Kissinger’s landmark thesis on ‘revolutionary powers’ he wrote while he was still an idealistic young man at Harvard. Sound familiar?
The elevation of style over substance defines modern life in America.
yeppers. called it upthread – and sure enough, my FB page is now dotted with scolds from the “fierce pragmatists” about how WH Statement reads “limited – it’s limited, freaks !”
although I think us “shrill, dead ender freaks” will be peeling off a few of them on this
everyone should read Kissenger’s thesis, it’s from 1959, but somethings never change. It’s about the rise of fascism in Europe and the inability for leaders in Britain and France to recognize that these people weren’t playing by the established rules. It explains a lot about why the Democratic party is such a fucking joke!
p.s. wish you were on FB ratty
Very good debate Boxturtle, Synoia its always good to talk to people who know more than you do. Especially when you have crazy ideas, debate does help strengthen the Lake crazy gets argued down crazy but might work if we try gets the go ahead.
I’ll put this in the won’t work file. Still thanks I learned a few things.
Seconded!
The HCR debacle was peeling them off for nearly a year. Doesn’t matter, if Dear Leader yanks the leash they’ll heel. Party loyalty appears to trump all else for most “progressives.”
Regarding FB, they want too much personal info… they’re worse than the damn census. “g”
Yet again we recoil in disgust and horror as Obama continues his relentless march toward becoming the most despised and reviled man in the history of our planet. Prices have risen 30 cents per gallon in my community since Obama’s SOTU address, notwithstanding a glut in oil as gorged supertankers remain at anchor slowly pointing one way and then another in response to shifting tides. No one in my small southern redneck town believes the increasing cost of gas has anything to do with increasing demand and shrinking supply. They know “drill baby, drill” ain’t necessary. Coal and oil companies have ruined enough habitats to infuriate many hunters and fishermen. Together with the unemployed people that coal, oil, and other corporations have screwed over, there is a growing army of angry people who are responding to Obama’s latest ploy with scorn and spit.
I hereby nominate Obama for a Darwin Award.
Pragmatism is the greatest excuse of our time. I guess Chamberlain thought letting Hitler have Czechoslovakia was a pragmatic approach to politics. Sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand and allow none to cross it. Otherwise who will take you seriously? No one feared Chamberlain, certainly not the Nazi regime and look what that lead to. You can’t appease revolutionary powers and this is what Obama is trying to do. Though the analogy is imperfect.
What happened to the green technology initiatives? Oh, thats right I forgot that 8 out of 10 green technology stimulus dollars are being used to outsource manufacturing jobs to China and other countries. If there were mass quantities of oil or gas off the coast of America it would have been exploited by now. Oh well, just another campaign issue he reversed himself on.
Getting Cap and Trade passed or banks charge polluters transaction fees to buy green credits from countries that don’t pollute like we do.
The polluters hate the idea. The banks love it. However with forests being constantly cut down for fuel and to make new cropland I doubt the fees the polluters pay will be enough to save third world forests.
Thus the plan behind Cap and Trade does not work.
lol.
and where does it state one has to provide factual personal info ? :D
Very good point just how much oil and natural gas are we talking about?
It’s the free market! I mean fixed market. After all we wouldn’t want China to do what? Nothing! That’s right, China’s buying of our dollars is actually giving us leverage, not the other way around, seems counter-intuitive, but we owe them our money, makes a big difference. That’s why America is not like other countries that owe a lot of money.
They appeared to think Rat Food isn’t my real name. Cut me to the quick, it did.
On my facebook I’m ThingsComeUndone I didn’t want my name on facebook I say way to many not nice things about my GOPer hometown:)
Try a Latin spelling of your name maybe? Everything sounds proper in Latin.
Sub national targets are the problem on that front, they only move logging to some other part of the forest, and environmental groups are now shilling for corporate polluters non-solution to the destruction of the worlds forests in exchange for, you guessed it, MONEY! But hey, cheap palm oil really makes me happy!
And the Sierra Club offered me a free organic T-shirt and fair trade coffee. Wow! I’m (not) sold!
Hey, I might try that!
Off to responsible pursuits. Top of the day to you and cbl2 (and everyone).
Progressive radio talk show host Thom Hartmann is already trying to spin and make excuses for President Obama on this offshore drilling decision (just as he did for “health care reform”). I turned the radio off after listening to the “spin”. Will other “progressive” radio and television hosts follow suit?
Thom Hartmann has drank the Cool aid Noooo!
Agreed but not about the palm oil.
I just might have to go over there and rattle their cage a wee bit.
I was joking about the palm oil… I should be more hesitant to use sarcasm in written form, doesn’t translate that well. OOPS
probably to some degree or another. It’s at least kinda fun, in a sick sort of way, to see the Obama loyalists tie themselves in knots to defend the indefensible.
Nomolos –
Great comments.
I saw this posted by a commenter over at HuffPo. Has a certain melancholy poignance:
Interesting that the NY Times photo shows Obama making this pitch in front of a military jet. Subtle propaganda in-line with his sneak-over visit to our colony near Pakistan. Much like the R plan to enhance medical insurance revenues, Team Obama looks back to the things Bush wanted to do, makes a few tweaks and voila – instant liberal agenda item. The perfect way for the liberals to move the line in the sand so that the Rs are forced to circle the wagons once again. As a game strategy this is probably pretty smart – eliminate the other side by taking on all of their goals and then making them happen. Too bad that outside of those that gorge at the corporate trough, the outcome to this is an absolute catastrophe.
The decision probably has to do with providing corporate welfare to the US refiners who are being hemmed, profits wise, because of the rampant gambling squeeze in equities. A squeeze created as banks seek safe places to make short term profits from their massive taxpayer aid packages. Make one group richer, find a way to help the others do the same and then wait for the old trickle down to kick in.
Just look at ‘HCR,’ the so called liberals on MSNBC are going gaga that we have now enshrined the Heritage Foundation’s responce to Clinton’s HCR plan in law! So what can we expect from the MSM. Keith and Rachel were only useful as opposition to Bush.
Can’t find the comments of which you speak.
Obamaism = One part GOP BS, just add water!
He didn’t even give us some new National Monument or Wilderness area. He really hates liberalism I think. This isn’t even a case of cutting things down the middle, which is odious enough, this is a full scale sell out.
The real problem in our politics is that there are only two parties and they’re completely dominate outside Vermont apparently. There is no where to go for liberals and the White House knows it. It’s just so cynical that it makes me want to vomit. I’ve been carrying around a bucket so I’m ready when new Obama news strikes like a bad case of the stomach flu! Sorry if anyone’s eating while reading this.
Oh, yes. Hartmann has the same problem lots of so-called progressives have: they are accomodating, constitutionally ill-disposed to conflict and confrontation, esp. with “their” side. Once you move beyond the pleading and debate stage they have no stomach for an actual battle.
Also, he needs to con his audience to keep his show (read: income streams) so that he can maintain his access and connections to the hoi-poloi Dem party insiders.
The military industrial complex is going green! We wouldn’t want the Pentagon to be wasteful after all (sarcasm).
Many military vehicles measure gas consumption in gallons per mile! That’s not a typo; gallons per mile! As in five gallons to the mile! Holy shit! Makes Hummers look like a green dream!
This is a good divide and conquer strategy. In real terms, it is doubtful whether the east coast outer shelf areas opened for exploration, aside from the Gulf of Mexico, contain much oil. As for natural gas, the risk of environmental damage is minimal except for the footprint of the rig and the undersea pipeline. In any event, actual extraction of oil would not occur for a decade or more. By then, the effects of global warming will be so pronounced and obvious that it is doubtful that areas with promise will actually be exploited.
As to whether this action will slow or stop efforts to move the country away from oil, I think the evidence is it will not. There is nothing inherently contradictory about petroleum exploration while, at the same time, aggressively developing non-petroleum energy sources. It’s not an either-or proposition and there is no question that Obama is doing more to push clean energy and efficiency than any president since Jimmy Carter.
And remember — exploration is not extraction. This is about exploration.
Yep, I can just see it now. Every time they need to fill up a jet they’ll just pop down the local fast food restaurant and pick some used cooking oil. Or if they are stupid they will imagine that biofuel from corn produces more energy than it takes to grow and process it.
Well, I just want to thank everyone here for making this site one of the most intelligent places on the net. And to Jane Hamsher and everyone else; keep up the good work.
Being from Nebraska, I can tell you what a cruel joke Ethanol is. My state is only doing well in this recession because farming is the most socialized industry in America. Farmers get payed no matter what and it’s propping up the parts of the country that act all independent and anti-gov, funny aye?
Short of Clinton the others were Rs. Not much of measure. When he passes Carter, I’ll be interested in the details.
Write the diary, I’d be delighted to help you with it before publishing it.
My email dh (at) synoia.com
Of course the D designation for Clinton is open to debate.
I’m perfectly okay with GM building as many Volts as possible as long as it provides enough of a CAFE cushion to build the Cadillac CTS-V wagon.
I’m worried as hell about the incoming CAFE regulations. Between that and Lamborghini ditching manual transmissions for teh mileage regs, I’m scared about the future of fun-to-drive.
I don’t know about a Darwin award, but it’s looking like there will be a future award given for “Most Squandered Transformative Opportunity as POTUS”; called The Obama Award.
Tough morning.
have you tried to engage in that conversation?
watch the eyes glaze over with the first mention of ‘bioenergy’
They’ve looked me right in the eyes and assert that I’m making up that word, that it doesn’t exist and is non-measurable or quantifiable ….
(and I’ll apologize as I don’t intend to offend any supporters of the ethanol ‘project’ that came out of Jimmy’s tenure but considering the method that it’s implemented, it’s Simply Junk Science – but sounds Darn Good)
yea for our public education – yea
So are you the Joanthan Gruber of Ecology? I do have news for you. This is not Daily Kos where they believe your LIES. The Oil companies and their oil sheikhs gave us 9-11 and Al Qaeda and the Oil companies run this country as if it were their plantation.
You are a SHILL!
I agree with Hopeful, and add that every time I begin feeling good about our President, I open the New York Times for breakfast and get a swift kick in the teeth. In my opinion, Obama’s decision is bad on multiple levels. Our oceans are already in bad shape, increasing acidity in the water, pollution, global warming, overfishing, let’s add some more oil drilling to the equation, maybe we can kill aquatic life a decade earlier. Obama states this was a painful decision for him. Come again? Instead of moving the country towards truly sustainable energy sources, such as solar and wind, Obama chooses to follow Bush administration policies that will do nothing but keep the country dependent on last century’s dirty fossil fuel technology. Take a deep breath, the air will not be getting any cleaner, and neither will the oceans. Clean coal, offshore drilling, nuclear power; I am afraid to ask what he will come up with next? A return to living in caves with open fire pits?
Finding the right group of lobbyists to pay for the effort to pass this stuff is undoubtedly hard, hard work. Getting them to make commitments to promote the plan without written guarantees and contracts probably is a bit like pulling-teeth. Painful might be a bit of an exaggeration.
The DailyKos is JUNK…..
Dangerous is the Kos sitr and its sucking up to Obama is quite common now.
Obama is a politician folks—he is not some ideological man with sound principles to speak of. Tell me a politician who has principles and we can all go take a trip to the casino or the red light district.
There are more honest prostitutes than there are honest politicians…and I am referring to street hookers and not “high class call girls” when I say this.
I am not surprised by Obama’s latest move because this guy has no principles or sound political ideology other than do anything Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod the real President and Vice-President tell him and Biden to do. Emanuel and Axelrod are the actual leaders in this shadow government with the emty suit Obama appearing in public as the lackey “president.”
Good day.
Frank, I don’t understand how what you have said is even remotely relevant to opening parts of the U.S. continental shelf to oil and gas exploration. The outer shelf is owned by us. Any “big oil company” needs to get a permit to do any extraction, which is an extremely hard thing to get. And in this case, any possible extraction is at least a decade a way, if there are any economically extractable deposits in the first place. If you want to know how hard it is to permit this stuff, look at the Cape Wind windpower project off Cape Cod, which has been stuck in permitting now for more than four years, based solely on aesthetic and visual concerns, and may never be permitted. This is the reality. What you are conveying is somewhat distant from that.
One striking point: I don’t see Energy Secretary Chu mentioned in connection with this. Has he been shut out?
We know that social ‘entitlements’, public schools system, and public infrastructure are on Obama’s chopping block. Are all those ‘progressives’ eager to support this full out Republican neo-con Obama presidency, or do they still have a grip on their Democratic platform ideals?
Is it really as easy for the PTB to make a Republican at heart run as a Democrat, get elected and garner the unquestioning support of the Democrat’s base? Is there no way of getting through to these fucktards?
Would Hugh’s list of Obama’s anti Democratic policies be rejected offhand by the Kossaks et al, as ‘all good’?
I mean, fuck it, if you as a Democrat cannot for whatever reason push through Democratic policy planks, then the last thing you should be doing is pushing Republican ones! Since when is passing any god-damn law better than passing no law?
Don’t forget that oil companies are still not paying royalties. That means that they are poised for another huge windfall, because Congress still hasn’t closed the loophole the oil industry is using to chat taxpayers out of billions in royalties for drilling on federal land.
In his first budget, Obama proposed a new excise tax on offshore oil and gas drilling that would have raised $6 billion over 10 years, but Congress never approved it, and Obama dropped the idea from the 2010 budget.
What it all basically means is that we taxpayers are getting shortchanged by billions.
“veal pen” – “the veal pen is an individual’s cube in the feed lot that is corporate america. The unsuspecting worker occupying the cube is kept in the dark and restrained to keep him or her tender until he or she is butchered” – from Urban Dictionary
It appears to me that the ones being kept in the dark and restrained are the progressives.
He has been marginalized if not shut out all together. Just like the other liberals in the Administration they’re basically props. Just remember what happened right after the Mass. special election, old Paul Volcker (what passes for a liberal now) was trotted out with Goolsbee and a few others, and then promptly sent back to Siberia.
Tho the Energy Dept. is being run pretty well. Obama is letting Steven Chu enforce regulations and do some good things. But I do think he’s a marginal voice at best. Hard to shout above the likes of Rahm Emanuel I suppose.
Typical BS from the liar-in-chief. Do they put a chip in your head when you become President or what? I suppose Obama is just so good at making people hear what they want to hear that I fell for it in 2008.
I suppose I just wasn’t paying attention.
Whenever you hear “bargaining chip,” think “what we really want but get to blame on Republicans.”
As others here have already said, Obama is no Democrat, let alone progressive. GOPers everywhere should be cheering wildly now that they have their greatest President who will deliver for them on every wrong policy they have ever dreamed of.
Next up on the Obama/GOP agenda?
- the Obama Voter Security Act, which forces all voters to present a birth certificate, a valid drivers license, and a genetic test indicating zero african-american, latino, or Middle-Eastern blood.
- the Obama Religious Freedom Act, which makes fundamentalist Protestantism the official national religion, complete with federal financial subsidies. Atheism becomes a felony, as is participation in muslim ceremonies of any kind.
- the Obama Education Reform Act, which forces all public schools to use the Bible as their main syllabus, eliminates frivolous subjects like biology, geology, environmental science, reproductive health education, and sociology, and introduces new subjects like Correctional Officer Science, Religion As Science, and Practical Authoritarianism.
Gee, I can’t wait for these bills to be introduced by Joe Lieberman and Max Baucus in the Senate.
Don’t forget the oil shale and tar sand for Americas Future Act of 2010! Ken Salazar is from Colorado and I’m betting he’s for oil shale. He’s a rancher and ranchers are for making money off the land in anyway they can. If cows aren’t enough, just sell out and next thing you know you have a strip mine or a gas field or a rural subdivision for Bill Gates and so on.
I guess Wyoming is Obama’s idea of good land management. As in ‘anything goes if you have money.’ Next we’ll be hearing about how we just can’t afford to keep the National Parks, he’ll appoint Richard Pombo as head of a ‘how can we sell the Parks commission.’ At this point I’m not ruling anything out!
Under which most recent democratic administration did the US dependence on foreign fossil fuels increase the most? Under which most recent 8 years of democratic control did the government not engage in any development of electric batteries or provide any subsidies to private industry for the development of alternative energy sources? Obama just inherited this mess.
Obama in drag as Sarah Palin. Fucking monster…
Easily the worst Democratic president ever… or, perhaps, one should say the worst betrayer of the Democratic base ever
this guy is a Rethug, through and through. Always has been. Went to a Republican school. Lived in a completely Republican environment. Learned to exploit, then beat on the poor to make his living (community organiser – of the multi, multi-millionaire variety you understand). This man is a class 1 shit.
The President “inherited” this mess and his response is to make things even worse? I know…many defenders will make excuses that there will be “good” along with the “bad”. If you are a Democratic President who wants to follow the Democratic agenda, you wouldn’t let the “bad” be the big winners. However, if you are a Democratic President in name only, the corporations will be the big winners. Just as the Heritage Foundation and AHIP wrote the so called “health care reform” bill, it should be interesting to see who actually writes the next “energy” bill.
Too many of us are tired of the excuses…”he inherited this mess”, “give him time”, etc. etc. Actions speak much louder than mere words. Time for people to face reality.
Welcome to Somalia v2.0
That which is not true, often puts on the appearance of truth.
- H.C. Carey
Obama, the Senate, Congress… are trying to suck the public into an absolute maelstrom of lies to hide the fact that they only have one master, the corporations.
We need to vote these bums out in 2010. Show them that no amount of corporate campaign cash will save them if they are not serving the publics interest.