One of the key features of the Bush Administration was the use of national security threats, way out of proportion to reality, to justify wars or civil liberties takeaways or whatever else. Over eight years, the public got so used to this kind of hyperbole that they can easily be led to believe that these threats must be confronted militarily, with the future of the nation at stake.
Things are actually much more mundane than that. Take Iran, for example. To listen to the warmongers, you’d think we’re days away from hearing air raid signals over Washington and Tel Aviv. But the truth is that, even if Iran has decided to pursue a nuclear weapons program – something which has yet to be determined, and which the intelligence community officially regards as aspirational – they would need up to six years to create but one nuclear device. I know John McCain wants desperately to pull the trigger on Iran, but he wants to shoot an unarmed man, and they cannot be armed, at least in a nuclear capacity, until 2016, and that assumes that they actually want to endure international opprobrium and create a weapon. And they are not doing that now.
Lt Gen Ronald Burgess, the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said the centrifuges at Iran’s Natanz nuclear plant were producing low-enriched uranium and were not yet being used to produce the more highly-enriched uranium needed for weapons.
Then there’s the strategy of continued occupation and war in Afghanistan, where we are told that continued pressure on Al Qaeda, through Predator drone strikes, keeps us safe at home by degrading their organization. Except the evidence shows otherwise:
There’s no way of answering this question with complete confidence, but it turns out there are some relevant and little-known data. They were compiled by Jenna Jordan of the University of Chicago, who published her findings last year in the journal Security Studies. She studied 298 attempts, from 1945 through 2004, to weaken or eliminate terrorist groups through “leadership decapitation” — eliminating people in senior positions.
Her work suggests that decapitation doesn’t lower the life expectancy of the decapitated groups — and, if anything, may have the opposite effect.
Consistent with the earlier data on organizational type, Decapitation is more effective against ideological organizations than religious organizations (see Table 10). Ideological organizations are more likely to fall apart than religious groups whether or not decapitation is taken into consideration. However, across all types of organizations, groups whose leaders have been targeted have a lower rate of decline.
In particular, religious terrorist organizations regenerate pretty quickly, and senior leadership gets replaced. Yet we’re often told that we must keep up “the fight” in Afghanistan to break up terrorist groups. That justifies a buildup of forces as well as the airstrikes. And it may be counter-productive.
Few people in our political leadership think strategically about national security threats, with the proper amount of perspective, such as Russ Feingold here:
The U.S. cannot continue to jump from one perceived “central front in the war on terror” to the next, nor should we invest our resources this way. Al Qaeda, its affiliates and sympathizers will continue to look for new safe havens in places like Yemen, Somalia, North Africa and elsewhere around the globe. Rather than investing a disproportionate amount of our resources into Afghanistan, where al Qaeda now has a limited presence, we should transition to a more sustainable counter-terrorism approach for the region and shift resources to more aggressively pursue al Qaeda’s global network. Ending al Qaeda’s safe haven in Pakistan remains a top priority, but a massive military presence in Afghanistan won’t accomplish this, and could actually contribute to further destabilization of Pakistan.
Rather than spending $100 billion in Afghanistan in one year, primarily on military operations, we should provide assistance to the people of Afghanistan to fight corruption and support the emergence of more responsive and capable government institutions that can address socioeconomic and political issues feeding instability. And we must retain a capability for targeted counterterrorism efforts, consistent with a strategy to fight al Qaeda around the world.
Presidents often have an agenda for national security and foreign policy, and they arrange the threats accordingly. But these arrangements often do not coincide with reality.



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Two news articles on Afghanistan from this am:
Contractor Deaths Accelerating in Afghanistan as They Outnumber Soldiers
LINK.
U.S. doubles anti-Taliban special forces
Secretive buildup of elite teams reflects view that time is short to degrade Afghanistan opposition
LINK.
I found it interesting that the IAEA has sent a letter questioning Iran about it’s intent to design and build a 2-point implosion device.
As of today, I’m not aware of a response from Iran.
So, not to be disrespectful David, but without their answering of that question, how can anyone know with any level of confidence what Iran is doing or what Iran is not doing in thermonuclear device design and development.
One of the most INFURIATING things to me is the “conventional wisdom” that Iran MUST be involved in making some of the more elaborate and sophisticated munitions that kill and maim our (occupying) forces in Iraq. This completely disregards several facts. For example the FACT that Iraq had an extensive and very well developed ordinance and defense industry prior to the invasion, the FACT that most if not all of those people lost their livelihoods directly post invasion, the FACT that weapons facilities were broken open in the vain search for WMD and then left open and unguarded, free to all takers and the FACT that the material, the talent and the capability to produce them is there in Iraq. Show me a person who insists that Iranian involvement is necessary in American troop fatalities and I’ll show you someone who really wants to go to war with Iran.
They can’t. And there’s far more evidence than that. I’m hoping David is being that vauge because of some standard of proof.
But I find myself very Hawkish on Iran. Nuclear weapons in the hands of Theocrats like that must never EVER be allowed to happen.
Afghanistan is a waste of time. We need to withdraw from there and make sure Iran does not go there. We’re wasting all our good will and resources on Afghanistan.
John McCain wants desperately to pull the trigger on Iran, but he wants to shoot an unarmed man
Wow! Mavericky!
How ya doing.
You’re forgetting that Iranian ordinance has been found at the scene of attacks on America. It is a fact, they have been used.
You’re forgetting that the Iraqi military was the only functioning section of the Iraqi ecconomy left, and even that started to degrade at the end of the regime. So yes they could make arms but they were extremely substandard.
This is in a country where it was death to own a satelite dish. You realy think the skills to make weapons, even if the resources were there, are that abundant?
I have no desire to go to war with Iran. But I have even less desire for a Theocrat to have that kind of power.
You’re also forgetting that Iran does this kind of stuff thru proxies. Hezbollah for example.
o/t
David
I’ve been waiting, ok, more like twitching the last hour – waiting to see something from the News Desk or EW on today’s WaPo NSA Indictment story – will there be something later or should I just start swilling the Nyquil now ?
yes, I am totally spoiled rotten by the immediacy of your reporting, why do you ask ? :D
Without citation? I haven’t “forgotten” anything. The Iraqis have the talent, the technology and the ability to make weapons. Maybe you have forgotten that they managed to hold off Iran for ten years? And a “substandard” ballistic missile doesn’t mean that an IED is “substandard”. What is your solution since you “have no desire to go to war with Iran”?
I’d feel better about that had I not recalled all the flim flammery surrounding “Iranian-made IED’s” to justify The Surge™
Good post, but may be counterproductive?
“That justifies a buildup of forces as well as the airstrikes. And it may be counter-productive.”
Definitely counterproductive for the reasons you mention, plus the untold number of terrorists and terrorist sympathizers we’re creating. Yes, it’s counterproductive, and arguably intentionally so. Chris Floyd:
http://www.chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/1-latest-news/1895-blowback-on-the-border-the-purpose-of-the-terror-war-system.html
Agreed! Every claim I have seen about Iranian made ordinance has been made by the United States or Israel. Several of those claims have subsequently been debunked. Pardon me if I’m not willing to take the word of the same people who brought us WMD claims being a “slam dunk” and so forth.
Now I need to do my afternoon workout so until later, be good.
Yes…because the post you made was FULL of citations.
I think you need to go back and re-read the history of that war. Saddam invaded Iran, not the other way around. And Iran sent in waves of people to just die on land mines and other such fun things.
So many Iranians died that they made a HUGE subsidy for families that had many children. that’s why more than 50% of Iran’s population is under 30. Because after Saddam Fucked them up so badly they bred like mad.
So the correct thing to say is Iran held of Iraq.
They use more than IEDs. I never said it was all from Iran.
Don’t have one. Never said I did.
So would I.
But just because George Bush was a moron doesn’t mean Iran isn’t trying to do some nasty shit.
But you’re expecting me to rely on the word of the same people who told us WMD was a “slam dunk” No. I didn’t believe that then and I don’t believe this now. The end.
Hi Margaret
That Iranian munitions have been used in the creation of IED’s that have killed and maimed US service personnel cannot be argued, there is substantial evidence of that.
I will not assert that the Iranian leadership nor the Iranian military is responsible but someone is.
The US Military should not be in Iraq and if we weren’t, the issue of Iranian Munitions tipped IED’s would be moot.
As far as Iraqi munitions being allowed to flow out into the general Iraqi population after invasion, it absolutely happened and is indefensible and was due to incompetence. Brenner is responsible for all those Iraqi and American lives lost to IED’s from those lost munitions. Brenner is/was an arrogant turd.
What standard of evidence would you like then?
Please remember, I’m going to hold your claims about Iraq up to the same standard.
no one is saying trust Iran. but it’s not an either or deal here.
I’m sorry that’s foolish.
Iran lied about enrichment sites. By your one strike about WMDs and your out rule everything the Iranian government says is a lie.
But that can’t be true because you’re defending them.
I’m not saying WMD wasn’t a lie, I’m saying you can’t immediately discount everything because of it. Investigate to see if it’s true or not.
“Iranian ordinance has been found at the scene of attacks on America”
I assume you mean Americans, not America? In any case, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, so what? You’re not actually suggesting that this is a casus belli?
Viceroy Brenner shouldn’t get all the credit. God’s Own Soldier Tommy Franks ordered US troops past Iraqi munitions dump after Iraqi munitions dump – and disbanded in country Intel Corp 3rd day of their precious Shock n Awe
What are you saying then?
If we can agree that Iran is a nasty Theocratic state. If we agree that this is the government that will rape a female virgin because it’s illegal under Sharia to put a female virgin to death…but not forbidden to rape her make her not a virgin and kill her.
If we agree that this is the government about which we speak, how can allowing them to aquire nukes be OK?
It’s not, OK well what can we do about it? I don’t know, but we can’t just let it happen.
No I’m not.
It was in response to someone saying it was false that Iran had interfered in Iraq post invasion.
An attack on our troops is an attack on America. I may not like the leaders, but I support the grunts taking orders.
In response to cbl2 @ 20
Yes, Thanks for the correction.
I made much too simple of an argument.
Franks sure as hell was responsible also (as were lower level commanders).
They were on a Blitzkrieg with no thought about what happens after ‘Victory’
Incompetence
Because I don’t believe that the Iranian government is involved in manufacturing IEDs does NOT mean I’m defending them! It’s usually a conservative principle to view things in such a two dimensional way. It’s not either-or, black-white, good-evil, right-wrong. The world is more complicated than that. And calling me names doesn’t persuade me to find your argument more credible.
That report about Iran not being close is deceptive. Remember, the US had a gun type weapon ready long before we had produced even a kilogram of U235 and we started from scratch. Iran will have a bomb as soon as it has about 11 kilos of 90% U235 at the latest.
That said, there’s a difference between a bomb and a weapon that could actually get through. The idea that any bomber Iran has could get to Israel or Europe without being detected is silly at best. To have a weapon that could actually be delivered on a IRBM would require a sophisticated implosion design and that’s not easy.
Assuming that the Iranian centrifuges are exactly as efficient as the design they copied, and assuming that there are no undeclared centrifuges, it would take Iran about a year to turn all their 20% U235 into 90%.
My bet is they’re a bit more efficient and that Iran has more centrifuges than they’ve admitted.
Boxturtle (And do not underestimate the quality of Iranian scientists)
Don’t believe they (or someone on their behalf) would use a conventional delivery method.
It’s much too easy to use a commercial carrier of some sort.
This is more for those reading. I don’t think I’m going to be changing your mind.
Yeah it actually does. You may not be defending all of it, but you’re definately defending a part of it. You don’t have to like someone to defend them.
This may blow your mind, but right and wrong do exist. Just because you don’t know what’s right, nor could you even, doesn’t change that. There is in fact a “right” way to handle Iran that gets them to disarm in as peaceful a way as possible.
We just don’t know, or we may not be capable of knowing what that is.
Try to shield a u235 core, the radation signature is unique. It would NOT be as easy as you think, because we know exactly what to look for in that case.
A submarine could detect such a thing by simply sailing under it, for instance.
Boxturtle (Plutonium is even more difficult)
But it is I that you called “foolish”, Therefore I find your excuse as specious as I find your accusations.
This article would have been better if it tied in Obama’s fear mongering over “loose nukes” at the recent Kabuki Nuclear Arms summit. Its from the exact same playbook.
If you doubt it, check out democracynow.org piece yesterday with their named nuclear arms expert in regards to the nuclear summit and what the realities are of the fear mongering claims we keep reading everywhere from some unnamed “expert” predicting terrorist will detonate a nuke in the US in the next 4 years.
Planted, disinformation, misinformation, propaganda, False Flags …
That phrase should be a fairly large Warning Flag. Someone is up to bad things
The fact that we distrust and fear them with good cause does not change the fact they they fear and distrust us with good cause.
We ARE trying to change management in Iran. They ARE trying to get a nuclear option.
Boxturtle (“We promise to stop” won’t be believed by either side)
I never called you foolish.
I said what you were doing was foolish.
Also, no one said I can’t let off steam when I’m educating others. If calling the person you’re talking to a fool precluded you from trying to inform others Keith Olbermann would need a new job.
I never said otherwise. I will say I don’t care. Theocrats with Nukes is a no no to me. I’d feel the same if it was the Bishop of Canterbury or the pope.
“We ARE trying to change management in Iran. They ARE trying to get a nuclear option”
Indeed, so let’s stop trying to cover this up.
Well, as for the larger issue, you said:
“I have no desire to go to war with Iran. But I have even less desire for a Theocrat to have that kind of power.”
You’d want the U.S. to go to war with Iran in an effort to stop it from developing a nuclear weapon.
Really? Jesus. A war with Iran would be catastrophic, with consequences too far-ranging to even guess at.
Sometimes we’ll simply have to accept that countries with bad governments have nukes. George Bush had nukes for 8 years, and the world thankfully didn’t come to an end.
Iran’s regime is ugly but no uglier than than of other countries, including some of the U.S’s allies, and unlike a lot of countries, including the US, Iran has not shown itself to be expansionist. Plus there’s a real democratic movement in Iran–the U.S. should be fostering it. Instead the U.S. is strengthening the hardliners by, among other things, occupying countries on either side of Iran.
Seems to me that we have neither sticks nor carrots to stop them if they are determined to go ahead. There’s nothing they want from us, apparently, that we can use to bribe them.
this continues to come up for me
who in their right mind believes the Chinese will stand idly by as Iran does something that impedes or threatens the flow of Iranian Oil to China ?
The phrase “educating others” is something that you shouldn’t use here. We do not need to be “educated”, thank you very much.
It’s very condescending.
You use “theocrats” the way George Bush uses “terrorists.”
The views of theocrats are reprehensible, but a theocratic regime isn’t necessarily more dangerous than a non-theocratic one.
Bullshit, I’ve posted numerous articles over the years that have completely destroyed that myth…! For example, rhe copper discs for the EFP’s were manufactured locally in Iraq, not Iran…! We’ve also attempted to frame Iran’s nuclear program with a laptop that contained flawed nuke designs…!
I don’t know. I do know I’m not 100% against it.
While I appreciate the humor, I don’t think we can compare Bush to the Iranian regime. The level of crime and repression is not even close. Bush never sold a temporary marriage to a soldier so he could rape the daughter of one of his political enemies then execute her.
No see that’s the thing, they have. They just don’t do it in their own name. They have Proxies like Hamas and Hezbollah do the dirty work for them. Go look at the Hezbollah flag if you need proof of that.
I agree. We should have been FAR more forceful during the green wave. We also shouldn’t recognize the “Islamic republic” but just recognize “Iran”
That I don’t think you can really make a case for. Because as many people in Iran who get emboldended by it also get inspired against the government by it. If you need proof read some about The Ayatollah’s Grandson. He’s part of the movement and celebrates the invasion of Iraq as a catalyst to help stop the regime.
I’m not now supporting the Iraq war either before I get accused of that. I’m just saying you can’t say it’s made it worse in Iran necessarily.
I would point to the pope and say otherwise.
The case against Iran is just as baseless as the case against Iraq was. If you hear a convincing bit of evidence from their face-sphincters it will likely be debunked in a year’s time or so; just like all the “intelligence” regarding Iraq did. It’s for the oil. Iraq’s oil reserves have been privatized, with non-national corporations like BP getting lucrative contracts. What more do you need to know? Iran’s oil is nationalized. Therefore, imperialists want war. Iran poses no threat to anybody.
So when are you reporting for active duty if you think it might be a good idea to go to war with iran?
No.
How dare you say I don’t have the right to try and educate others. you don’t want to hear it don’t hear it. Ignore it. But don’t tell me what I can or cannot do.
You think I’m condescending…fine.
But I’ll attempt to educate whomever I damn well please.
There has never been any evidence that Iran has ever given anything but moral support to any terrorist group.
David, I’m not all that sure I can agree with you on that
http://www.armytimes.com/legacy/new/1-292925-2328520.php
Good job.
Insulting others and then getting on your high horse is sure to win adherents to your point of view.
and I respectfully point you back to @2 in reference to a question about their desire for a weapon
Correct me but isn’t the Iranian President basically a figure head with little real power? Mainly able to talk the game but not with power to implement what his mouth is saying?
Don’t understand why so many appear to want to argue today.
I was responding to this statement:
I supplied two statements that I thought question that statement. If you do not agree, that’s fine.
True, but you’re using Ahmadinejad’s words as the basis for saying Iran IS using rhetoric worse than other countries.
Kinda like using the rhetoric of someone like Demint to justify an invasion of the US.
(yes, I know the analogy is flawed)
My mistake
I had assumed that when the President of Iran calls for the Destruction of another Nation (Israel) and the Death to America, that’s sort of the ugliest possible.
What else could be said that would be considered relatively ‘uglier’?
You mean like when John McCain makes a “joke” about “Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran?”
Or Lil Billy Kristol extols the virtues of Iran becoming a sheet of black glass?
Both sides are equally ugly.
I am not convinced our overlords will feel they even need to bother with another false flag event, but if they do, they have told us repeatedly exactly what it will look like.
My own opinion is enough for me. And I reserve the right to have it defended against any majority, any opinion, anytime, anyplace. And anyone who has a problem with that can take a number, get in line, and kiss my ass.
-Christopher Hitchens
You think he gets to say those things with OK from the leader?
How does what Billy Kristol or John McCain uttered come into this discussion?
Here’s the statement again I was replying to:
If the war comes and if I agree with the reasoning behind it. It all depends on circumstances.
Now to turn that back on you.
How many anti War marches were you in this year?
yep, comforting isn’t it. And I don’t have the links, but it seems I’ve been hearing those ‘warnings’ more often and coming from different quarters lately.
Very unnerving
Except Syria, where they are actively working thru a proxy group to undermine the government.
And Palestine, where Hamas and other hard liners have made it harder to make Israel the problem.
And turkey, where they’re also actively trying to destabilize the government.
And their own citizens, where the crimes against humanity are so unspeakable that I can only mention a few of them.
It’s called ugly rhetoric calling for the destruction of another country. Wasn’t that your point about Ahmadinejad?
Were the missing nuclear bombs from that North Dakota USAF base in August of 2007 ever located???
Yes, at Barksdale AFB in Louisiana
believe so, they flew them to Barksdale by mistake (or am I thinking of a different case)
Our troops have told us that its become common practice in Iraq to carry what our soldiers call “drop weapons”. When they kill some random Iraqi, if that person didnt have a weapon, they just toss their “drop weapon” on the corpse and voila! Instant Insurgent.
So forgive me if any claims of supposedly discovered Iranian ordinance are suspect at best.
From Pat Tillman to the cover up of countless civilian massacres, our militarys credibilty is seriously in question.
I’m not sure why you’re beating on this one.
I don’t view McCain or Kristol as being in the ‘Regime’ or Nation’s leadership (Administration)
Agreed. I had seen it quite a bit before the nuclear summit, but even more so lately. The most recent I saw was jonathan alters latest Newsweek (<—corporate propoganda) article on the nuclear summit.
yep, and that’s one of our primary problems now. Very difficult to believe, to have trust.
I was going to say it’s silly to trust them, but it’s passed that. It’s really quite stupid. Trust and Verify. How insane to have to do it with our own Government and Military
This year? None. But that’s mainly because I’m not around where they are easily found (although one of these Saturdays I will probably try to join SD and the St Pete for Peace folks)
But I have also served in the military while I also marched against Vietnam and the first Gulf War.
But you sounded very much like someone like so many of the last administration – willing to go to war as long as someone else is actually doing the fighting.
I’d go to British sources or what not but you’d say the same things about those, so let’s use some logic.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008/01/no-more-iranian/
If they are really trying to use this as a false flag thing why would they publicly say the attacks are going down from Iranian made arms? Then why say they had stopped?
Seems counter productive.
I mean sure you could say they were trying to cover up for the lie in the first place, but there doesn’t seem to have been anything to cause them to do that.
My Guess, that’s all this is, my guess.
But if they powers that are suppose to know the secrets and that are required to protect us, are now telling us to expect an action within the next four years… one of two things is happening.
They’re complicit or
They have credible intelligence and they’re admitting their own inability to stop the intended action
(or it’s that darn fear mongering, wanting to justify further actions – assholes)
Please state the last country Iran invaded.
I’m not willing to go to war yet. I’m not calling for it. I just said I wasn’t 100% willing to rule it out.
Before you ask, no I have not served before. But that’s because I wasn’t willing to go to war in Iraq.
You don’t have any proof of any of that. Like I said, there has never been any evidence that Iran has ever given anything but moral support to any terrorist group. And that’s not a crime.
“War is the terrorism of the rich and powerful and terrorism is the war of the poor and powerless.” Peter Ustinov
Well, I think there is also simple fear mongering, which our goverment is clearly a big fan of. But I tend to agree it seems more than that. Still trying to pinpoint why it feels that way.
Invaded?
Can’t do that. If we change that to “name the last government the Iranians have actively worked to disrupt”
Well, Syria, Turkey, Israel, Iraq, Palestine…so on and so on.
It’s like asking name the last country Pakistan invaded. They haven’t, but they did set up the proxy government in Afghanistan called the Taliban so they could have an ally against India.
So the US does exactly this “name the last government the Iranians have actively worked to disrupt” all the time for decades to multiple countries (including to *cough* Iran *cough*)
And we actually do invade countries left and right.
But Iran is the big danger.
American Exceptionalism at its finest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funding_of_Hezbollah
The sources that links to aren’t just American sites BTW. Actually follow the footnotes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4739900.stm
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/02/01/iran.hamas/index.html
http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=02d5e69137350252edf332252f4f00af
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3512014.ece
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/16/world/main1501210.shtml
Do I really need to get your proof of what they do to their own citizens? I might need my own diary for all that.
Samuel L. Jackson stars in a movie soon to be released. Called “Unthinkable.” And guess what it’s about? An American Muslim man who claims to have nuclear bombs planted in three U.S. cities. Jackson’s starring as a black ops dude, and surprise surprise – he tortures. And when someone looking in on the dirty deeds suggests it’s against the Constitution, his screaming reply, to paraphrase: But if we don’t find those bombs, there’ll be no Constitution! The “terrorist” then exclaims he can take it, and in fact, deserves the torture.
I heard this excerpt of the movie on another website – am not making this up. Absolutely appalling.
This is blatant brainwashing of the highest magnitude. It also suggests, as those who’ve studied how The Game is played warn us, that when you see something like this in the media, it’s almost always a covert op to “ready” the masses for something like this to actually occur in the near future.
Which means we could be facing yet another false flag operation to hype up even greater levels of fear so that more freedoms are taken away, and more dollars go to the military. Also note:
1. Glenn Greenwald’s column today explains Obama’s DOJ latest move re: wanting access to yahoo emails that are sent within the U.S., by U.S. citizens…without a warrant. Yep, the crush against person freedom continues unabated.
o/t, but borderline related:
2. Anyone notice Obama is also going to move a lot of the NASA space stuff…to PRIVATE companies? Many of which are defense contractors? So we end up PAYING THEM to send our astronauts into space? While THEY hold the technology?
Anyone else see something very wrong about this?
Do you see me here trumping up Iraq or Afghanistan?
No you’re setting up a strawman, and quite a bad one.
This is like saying “Well Israel has nukes, so it must be OK for Iran”.
Just because bad guys do bad things doesn’t mean other bad guys are allowed to do bad things.
Liberal guilt at its finest.
For myself it’s the statement “We expect that within the next 4 years a US City will be the target of a nuclear device” is unprecedented.
and I have experienced the terror of Defcon 1, loaded, engines running and ready to go (of course most of the terror comes from the knowledge that minutes after we roll out, someone else will be doing their own targeting)
You are claiming Iran is some huge danger when they do less of the behavior you claim is troublesome than YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT DOES. I am not claiming what Iran does in that regard is good. But it troubles me less than when our government does more of it AND invades other countries to boot. (which Iran doesnt do)
Thats what American Exceptionalism is. When others do it, its bad. When American does it, its by definition good.
Ug..thats..just..ug.
As to the privitization. Its all the rage man! Get with the program. If its good enough for our kids (charter schools), and its good enough for our military (Blackwater), then it must be good enough for our space program.
Yea…more suck.
There you go again…
You seriously need to stop wetting your pants in fear about Iran. If Obama simply pledged a no-first-strike U.S. policy, they would feel far less pressure to preemptively defend themselves.
As for “Theocrats like that” — the U.S.’s are no better, and it was they who dropped not one, but two nukes on Japanese civilian population centers. Doesn’t your exceptionalist hypocrisy bother you at all?
I would point to the U.S. under Reagan/Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama and say otherwise.
Hamas isn’t a terrorist group. It’s a democratically-elected party. Like I said, there has never been any evidence that Iran has ever given anything but moral support to any terrorist group. No evidence that Iran has ever given anything to Hezbollah or any other. Western plutocrats have tried to frame them in this regard for years, without success. Given Palestine’s conditions, we can’t really blame Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad for supporting Hamas, can we? Are you really saying that you’re a Zionist?
Ahmadi-Nejad has cracked down on what many perceive as a CIA-supported “rebellion” (the “green” revolution) inside Iran to overthrow an authentically-elected Iranian government.
Wrong.
You are once again putting words in my mouth. I did not say our own government doesn’t bother me.
But you can’t just be like “Oh Iran with nukes is no big deal” because that patently is not true.
no
Well Truman wasn’t a Theocrat. He wasn’t even really much of a believer. Neither was FDR.
American theocrats don’t run the government, Iranian ones do. Iran Theocrats would have their finger on the button, American ones would not.
And no, as I’m not being an American exceptionalness guy. I’ll sit here and knock American stuff all day, again this is a straw man.
Just because America did bad doesn’t mean everyone gets to do bad.
I’ll have to say that the charter schools in our state are under local school board sponsorship or legislature control, they actually work fairly well.
But shoot, Privatizing NASA? Currently all technologies that NASA develops are available to the public, either free or fee based. I’ve purchased several for use in projects.
Depending on how it’s implemented, giving Boeing control, it’s pure bull shit looting. (and their latest ICBM shit works great as does their ‘Invisible Fence’ on the Mexico border)
So is Sinn fein in Ireland. You can be both.
Except that boatload of evidence I just linked to you from British, American, and Middle Eastern sources..but hey.
If that support is giving them RPGs, rockets and other weapons yes we can.
Yes…that’s what I’m saying…because when I said Israel did nasty shit but that doesn’t give Iran a free pass what I really meant was “Iran is evil because Israel says so”.
Do you even read my comments?
OK I’m pretty sure you just called the Green wave a CIA led plot to overthrow Iran.
Nah, I’m done with you, just gonna leave it there.
GOODKIND BELIEVES THE GREENWAVE IS A CIA PLOT!
You must be an Iranian supporter…sorry there’s no cool word like “Zionist” for it.
I thought that this article was about the use of overhyped “threats” to achieve the political ends of the MIC. But since the discussion now seems to be about the supposed “Nuclear Ambitions of Iran”, I will offer a few thoughts about the subject. I have had this argument with some of my more Right-Leaning friends, And they have been startled by my responses to their Fear(and War)mongering tripe, so here goes:
So What?
If Iran is in fact pursuing a nuclear weapons agenda and actually does produce one, we quietly send them a letter to the effect of” Congratulations! welcome to the club! run your mouth and bluster all you want about your might and power. then read up on the reality of Total Thermonuclear Devastation. If you use or allow others to use your new toys
for any reason We, the rest of the Big Boys Club will, in fact, convert you and your entire country into an ocean of molten glass. We will then drill for oil in MOPP Suits without the bother of having to ask you about it, because you will have been converted into hot clouds of ash and smoke. Your nieghbors wont complain, because they dont really like you anyway, and your example will kind of speak for itself,wont it? We sent you this letter quietly and without fanfare so that you would understand that We are completely serious and are in fact Not Even Playing Around With You about this matter. Again, Congratulations, and we hope you enjoyed the complete waste of time,effort,resources and goodwill it took for you to join us, and the fear, hatred, and paranoia that your new toy will inspire amongst your friends,rivals and nieghbors. Great Job!! signed, all other nuclear nations( the Big Boys Club).”
If, on the other hand, Iran is in fact only developing civilian applications for its nuclear material, and we fall for the Right-Wing MIC B.S yet again with “Pre-Emptive Strikes” and all that, we (the U.S and Israel,sans support from anyone else) will be sucked into yet another long
, costly, unwinnable land war in the Middle East, while Russia, China and the rest of our economic competitors laugh thier asses off and continue to develop alternative energy sources. not to mention justifying and furthering the claims and actions of all of the worst Islamic Regimes now and in perpetuity unto the time of our own economic and social collapse.
so much for all that. sorry i went long there.
just sayin’
Do we really need to go crime for crime here?
Because I guarantee the crimes of religion over the centuries far outweigh the crimes of America.
NO…just no.
Do you Know what MAD is? Mutually assured.
See let me explain it to you like this. The Russians have this sub see. Loaded with more than enough nukes to end the world. It goes under the arctic where it can never be found for 6 months at a time. It comes up, and if it can’t detect any sign of Russia still being there, it’s orders are to nuke the world, no questions.
There is no such thing as “Ok play nice with your new nuke or we’ll turn you into glass”. Iran has subs.
Once that barrier is crossed there is no such thing as going back.
Sure works for me.
As long as we can prove, well beyond a reasonable doubt, have to be able to absolutely prove (which does open up the option for someone or something to attempt to game it) that the device came from there (maybe the IAEA could help)
But anyway, I’ve had very similar thoughts. It’s has more promise than a preemptive strike.
we have hunters that routinely play bump and run with them
don’t think it would be a problem to track an Iranian sub, would guess we’re already doing so. (I’ve been out for 36 years)
Of course, if we do that, all those neighbors will be dealing with the concurrent radioactive fallout from making that black glass parking lot in the desert and there might not be much of anything usable, including oil, left.
Sorry, Man, you seem to be confusing (or conflating)Russia and(With)Iran. BTW,most informed people understand the concept of MAD. when i said “We”, Imeant the Big Boys Club, all of them. no need to be sarcastic.
research the latest generation of enhanced radiation weapons (Neutron)
They’re not much like Little Boy and Fat Man.
Have to ask, Did you fly Arc Light?
No.
I’d join in, but I see that you, elgallorojo, and others, like the futureisnow and gnomedigest, are kicking Exceptionalist ass splendidly without me.
Please, do carry on. I haven’t had this much fun lurking in a long time.
Not really. All it takes is one sub with the ability to go under arctic sea ice where it will never be found again.
Iran has that, all it needs is the nukes.
Once they have that they can go “OK, what are you going to do about it now?”
Not really, they keep dodging my points and putting up straw men.
and I still object to the exceptionalist argument as no one has proven that’s what I’m doing yet.
I have no problem calling America on it’s faults.
Exactly.
Stalemate.
Cold War.
Move On.
That article was thoroughly debunked…! When the press was invited to see the ‘Iranian’ markings they canceled the show and tell, and, when several intrepid reporters tried to follow up… They were told ‘off the record’ that only a handful of the RPG’s had Iranian markings and they couldn’t prove that the Iranians actually supplied them…! Please read anything trumpeting the Iranian’s malfeasance with a shaker of salt…!
There is so much wrong with charter schools that doesnt have anything to do with the performance of a given charter school.
Studies show them to be more segregated than public schools.
Its another process of transferring money from public coffers to private hands. Many are headed by folks with CEO type salaries in the hundreds of thousands.
There are no standards what so ever for these schools. No government oversight at all, yet they get public money. So maybe your schools are fine, but what about the piece of crap charter schools some inner-cities are seeing?
Then there is the issue of access. Kids actually have to apply to get in these schools. When they are literally replaced public schools that is totally unacceptable.
Read up on charter schools and prepare to be disappointed.
You want that kind of stalemate with Iran?
You want the greens to never be able to overthrow the supreme leader because they’re afraid of the nukes? Do you want another cold war?!?!?
I’m not really cool with that.
Talk about putting words in ones mouth. When did I say a nuclear Iran is no big deal?
But you are already making an assumption that is not based in any facts. There is no proof at all that Iran is trying to get nukes. When it comes to their nuclear program, they are the most scrutinized country in the history of the IAEA, and the IAEA does not claim that Iran has a nuclear weapons program.
Not sure what proof people expect Iran to offer to prove a negative. They let the inspectors in and they follow all the rules. How exactly should they prove they dont have a nuclear weapons program beyond that?
Niether am i. but what are the viable alternatives?
Some of us think that a the threat of Iran developing nuclear weapons is one of those overhyped threats to achieve political ends of the MIC.
Fair enough.
True they don’t. But they do say they have not been honest with inspectors and they have been hiding sites.
the only reason they don’t say they’re after a weapon is because they can’t completely prove it, and the IAEA has a very high standard of proof as they need to.
But what they DO say is that “Iran might be seeking weapons capability”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/18/AR2010021803378.html
I don’t know, but seeing what the cold war did to us, I’m not willing to go there again.
1. This isn’t a contest re: which is better or worse, a theocratic regime or non-theocratic regime – they can both suck;
2. The only reason religion has done more damage over the centuries when compared to the U.S. of A….is that religion has been around a lot longer. The crap that is theocracy has been around since who knows when; the crap that is U.S. plutocracy has only been around for a couple of hundred years or so. However,
3. If you measured the damage done by religion over the same time period as damage done by the U.S. (and/or the “English Empire” for that matter)…I’d say it’s pretty much a draw.
Absolutely. You nailed it, gnomedigest.
Already have. There is a wide difference from state to state.
Ours are actually public schools, funded and pseudo controlled by the school board (if the school board is doing the sponsorship) Different Superintendent, etc, etc.
IAEA is not so sure.
Refer to comment # 2 above
Now considering Iran is the most scrutinized country in the history of the IAEA, and the best the IAEA can say (likely due to pressure from the US) is that they might be seeking weapons capability, how does that even remotely justify sanctions or any other action against them in this regard? Or even regarding them as a serious threat.
Its overblown hype.
Juan Cole has been a beacon of sanity amidst all the war drums…
Nope,
IAEA has not received a response from Iran yet from this letter.
Exactly. That right there is one of the problems.
In the end though I think they all have the effect of undermining our public school system and shifting resources away from the public school system for at best semi-public/private schools. I think a strong public school system is vital to a democracy.
I think we would be better off addressing the public school system than ignoring it and when random schools are deemed to have “failed”, firing a bunch of teachers and replacing the public schools with charter schools.
So we dont even wait for them to respond before making judgments?
I agree with that. But I would say a Theocratic regime by definition sucks, whereas not all Secular regimes suck.
I can’t think of a religiously led government that didn’t suck. Well I can’t think of any government that didn’t suck really. But I hope we’re using a stronger meaning for the word suck.
I’m not sure I can agree with that. Look at all the mental violence done over time. I mean, what is more damaging to a child’s psyche to tell him that he’s already a sinner, but god loves him and he has to be good or he’ll burn for eternity forever and ever. Not to mention religion as the root of
allmost racism and slavery.When you multiply out all the negative impacts associated with religion. All the hate and vitrol in the world. Not to mention the thousands upon thousands that are harmed because of religion in the third, second, and even in the first world. Genital mutilation, maltreatment of the poor, sexual abuse, and murder…mass murder, in the name of god.
Even British imperialism, your test case was fueled by Religion. In this I will admit it was not the main motivator, but who can say that it wasn’t a major contributor? Religion and Nationalism are to easy to intermix for that to be coincidental.
My Atheist stance is pretty well known, and I don’t mean to sit here and preach at you about your own personal religion. But I say it so you can get a full understanding of the spectrum thru which I am viewing this.
I should say…keep coming at me all of you. It’s nice and refreshing to be able to make sure I believe what I think I believe.
I agree. Ours are under local school board control. They’re just another local public school. Open to all.
My oldest son chose one. It is an ‘Outward Bound’ ed model with an emphasis on the Fine Arts. Incredible school.
Other three children have chosen the public schools.
And who handed the ‘intelligence’ to the IAEA, perchance…? *gah*
That’s where I’m at. Just waiting to see what their response is.
What are the other options? Scorch all of Persia?
Don’t see any other rational options at this point except waiting for the IAEA.
I still haven’t seen any. No one has. Because it doesn’t exist. Everything you linked to besides a Wikipedia article (c’mon now, Wikipedia?) was from American and British sources and was in reference to Hamas.
That’s true. I do. Have they not done it before? To Iran? To Iraq? To Chile? To Guatemala? To Brazil? To the Philippines? To Nicaragua? To Haiti? To Venezuela?
It should be common sense that the “green wave” (as you call it) was a CIA attempt to overthrow the government. They always try to disguise it as a “rebellion” or a “revolution”. But of course it’s in your interest to make these things sound outlandish.
Multiple Western and Eastern intelligence sources. I’ll try and find the link … be right back
Nice article. I like this part in relation to #2:
If that was all this was I would entirely agree with you.
But look at the whole record.
Gross and flagrant civil rights abuses, disturbing acts of rape and torture, and real physical violence against its own people.
Aiding proxies in other countries materially to destabalize the countries they’re in.
Fermenting violence and agitating situations like Palestine where what’s needed more than anything is to cool down and have like some nice non violent time so everyone can calm the hell down.
Add it all together, and you get a very disturbing picture. Now a lot of these things you can say about the united states also. But not all.
the alternatives are what? We let Iran do whatever and get into another cold war? Look at all the propaganda and retardation done to us because of the last one. Hell the only reason our military is what it is is BECAUSE of the cold war. God only got added to the pledge and added to the money because of the cold war. And a million other nasty things happened in the cold war, and they happened for decades.
What the f*ck do you think Israel has been doing all along in Palestine, playing footsie with the Palestinians…???
As I said in the actual comment, if you follow the footnotes in Wikipedia it leads to the source material. There’s like, 50 or so of them so I wasn’t going to link them all. I assumed you could follow links and instructions. This is my mistake.
Indeed I did consider the possibility. But then I saw youtube videos, and read twitter posts, saw tons of pictures linked. I helped set up a good 10 or so proxies so those people could keep posting when the government tried to kill internet access.
Did the CIA do that? Did the CIA set up all those videos and protests?
Did the CIA rig the Iranian vote?
Please check out that article Ctuttle posted by Juan Cole. It debunks most of your claims better than I ever could.
http://www.juancole.com/2010/01/iran-and-goldilocks-principle-why.html#comments
Are we talking about Israel?
Have I given you my opinions on Israel?
We are talking about the US and Iran, and that is what I was commenting about. If you want my stance on Israel I can give it to you if you like.
One day the Israelis will realize they’re still in exile there and they’ll get the joke of the whole thing. They’re hostage to crazy Israeli settlers who think this is their land and their version of the Neo-cons. But mostly they’re cool people.
Likewise the Palestinians are hostage to crazy Islamic fundamentalists who believe as long as a single jew is on that land they are at war, and being swayed by like 5 different government to keep that shit going. But mostly they’re cool people.
Wish I had an answer to the problem, but I don’t.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/05/iran-tested-nuclear-warhead-design
*heh* Good answer…!
I have in fact.
So because he said so? And India wasn’t working on a bomb either, they just wanted to know they could, then oopsies we set three off.
well we’ve all been going over this, I disagree with him as do others and the IAEA.
He doesn’t know that, nor am I really afraid of that. But them having the bomb makes them much larger players in their respective regions.
that’s a fantasy. If a magic genie showed up and said I’ll poof you a nuclear weapons system right now…you think he says no?
All of that is true. As is the rest of his summary. As I said, I’m not here trying to advocate us attacking them. But we can’t sit here talking like it’s not a possibility or an option. Can I imagine a set of events where I would advocate us attacking them? Nope. But a lot can happen in a day.
Are you suggesting that the CIA cannot play Iranians like a fiddle? Just Americans? I mean, for fuck’s sake dude, look at this list. By suggesting this is the reality, I’m not making a value judgment of the Ahmadi-Nejad presidency. I’m just saying that it’s an Iranian matter we have no business sticking our noses into. The Israeli-Iranian dispute has nothing to do with us. That’s between them. On the other hand, if a country is going to wage a war of aggression on another country for their natural resources, the rest of the world has a duty to stand behind the brutalized country.
I know the charter schools thing is WAY off topic, but…a number of people have posted about them, so if you would permit me:
1. I was involved in helping write the nation’s first charter school law (Minnesota, 1991). I gave testimony and sat in on meetings where the language was actually drawn up.
2. I was also the founder of a nonprofit corporation that was awarded Minnesota’s eighth charter. Unfortunately (or fortunately!) it didn’t come to fruition due to heavy politics and lots of back-door manuevering on the part of several school boards.
3. For the record: Legally, charter schools are PUBLIC schools. They are NOT private schools. Nor can they be “for profit.”
4. And their goals? While these vary a little from state to state, their overall purpose is to:
a. address populations that are being ill-served by traditional public schools;
b. support innovation in education; and
c. get rid of some of the bureaucracy in order to free teachers, parents, and students to be able to focus on learning.
5. At least in Minnesota, charter school students must take the exact same graduation exams as their traditional public school counterparts – and pass them all. Which means there is absolutely NO difference in performance benchmarks or outcome requirements.
Now, having said all of that, my take on the reality of how charter schools have actually worked:
1. They rarely encourage innovation;
2. They are, as a previous poster noted, becoming much more segregated in their school populations (for example, some charters here in MN are focused on specific cultural or religions affiliations);
3. Because funding is so much less than traditional schools (too complicated to explain why but trust me, they operate on substantially less money than their traditional counterparts), many find themselves scrimping along and making due, or holding endless fundraisers (which takes energy away from creating excellence in education);
4. Administrative salaries can occasionally be out-of-balance in some (certainly not all) schools, but, since they operate much more “under the radar,” usually less is made of it. (However, teachers in charter schools generally get paid 10-30% less than their traditional school colleagues.)
For the record: Even as the first bill was passed into law, I was speaking AGAINST what had passed because I didn’t think it went far enough to “break free” from the old system. And as I see, almost thirty years later, hundreds of charters that, again, are really not all that innovative (some I’ve been in, in fact, herald back to 1950s style rigid conformity as well as old-fashioned curriculum), see charters that exist primarily because they are culture specific, charters that end up with a near exclusive drop-out population and don’t know quite how to handle them…
Nevertheless, let me be clear: Our education system, whether traditional public, charter school public, or even private is nothing more than a propaganda machine that readies people to serve the (corporate) state, either as a toilet-bowl cleaner or nuclear scientist and everything in between. Take a look at state standards and you will see, for example, NOT ONE GOAL related to opening students to the kinds of information we get here, or at Glenn Greenwald’s column, or with 911 truth seekers, etc. Nothing about things like quantum physics, either (which is revolutionary in what it tells us about naming and shaping “reality” and essential info for everyone; alas, to expose students to such new “knowns” would topple the status quo, which is exactly why you’ll never see any of the above formally included in curriculum or standards).
And one last for the record: I have been licensed as a public school teacher in two states and have been a private school founder and administrator as well. Have met many wonderful teachers as well as a few really top-notch administrators. But almost all of them are still operating in the Old Paradigm.
And that’s not helpful no matter what kind of school you’re talking about.
That is a disturbing report, in that A.Q. Khan and that Russian Scientist were involved, but, first they need the fissile material, and, the Iranian centrifuges are well monitored and no where close to producing the 95% or more purity levels…! The IAEA inspection regime continues unabated so why are we so determined to nuke ‘em…?
I’m suggesting the CIA is far less competent than you give them credit for. How many of those revolutions worked? Of the ones that worked how many actually stayed in power for a significant amount of time?
The CIA up until the collapse of the USSR continually said that it was a thriving economic superpower when they couldn’t bake bread. I could go on and on.
This I had thought was the lesson of the second world war. You can’t just pretend it doesn’t matter. You can’t just ignore this stuff while it’s going on because then eventually when you do have to confront it it’s a million times worse. Like the Nazis before it all really started. They thought Hitler was a rational actor, that he wouldn’t risk like that. Or worse that you could try and bargain with him and use him.
It gets worse.
Point of information: I’m a former Lutheran chaplain (very former!) who isn’t Christian anymore, isn’t a believer in any “religion” anymore. I am highly spiritual, however.
1. I absolutely agree with everything you said about religion and its whole thing about original sin and everything that flows from that piece of propaganda.
2. I also agree with you about the maiming, raping, torturing, murdering, etc. that has all been done in the name of “god” (or sometimes even “goddess”).
3. Yet here’s how I see the U.S. (and English Empire) as being just as engaged in maiming, raping, torturing, murdering, etc.:
a. Look at what’s been done in the name of “patriotism” (just substitute “patriotism” for the word “god” and you get the same deal);
b. Look at the hidden nature (which is where the real damage is) of what the U.S. has done to communities, cultures, nations…the U.S. “hidden forces” wreaked havoc on Latin America, for example – only instead of shouting “This is done in the name of God!” what those forces shouted was “This is done in the name of Freedom!” (And we know both exclamatory statements had nothing to do with either god or freedom, but power. And money. Period.)
c. Women were raped, children beheaded, whole populations tortured and decimated by our good ol’ CIA types. In Latin America. Southeast Asia. The Pacific Islands. Middle East. And now they’re moving into Africa.
Bottom line: Don’t see much difference between the two.
Lots of things to be concerned about. Personally I’m very relieved that we have a body like the IAEA and second that Iran is a signatory.
Those are both very large positives.
Just have to let it run it’s course. The regime that we supported prior to their last revolution was very ugly. I’m sure there are still lots of memories. I went to school with many Iranian students in the 70′s and 80′s.
They didn’t have many kind words for the Shah and his secret police. To a certain degree, we’re still paying the price for supporting that regime and the method that it came to power.
And it’s such a shame. The Iranians and Persians have such an incredible history. And that history and how it has affected all human civilization is not being taught to our children.
We truly have short memories.
Agree 100%.
As to them being “non-profit”, I think some of the salaries of their administrators belies that on a practical level. Sure making plenty of profit for some of them.
Other than that I dont disagree with your take.
As you point out, its not like the Charter school system has done much good in comparison to our normal system. So for me, thats just another reason to push against them. We shouldnt pretend they are the solution to our public school system, and promoting them tends to do that. (not insinuating that you were supporting them or not)
I take your point, but there’s an aspect I think you’re missing. You can’t have patriotism like that without religion involved. You hear all the time about army officers who proselytize, do you think that’s just a recent thing?
Why is it that whenever you see this insane patriotism, this real America nonsense, behind them you see some insane religious influence that instills that in them from youth?
The tea party, Christian soldiers, Blackwater, the militias, Al-Qaeda, insurgents, Israeli settlers….what is the one common thread coming all of these things? Now think of some more, “Patriotism” at least their version of it is quite high.
I congratulate you on your breaking away, but not everyone raised in it can. For most there is no escape, they believe no matter what evidence is presented. Your own spirituality is your own thing, you’re free to believe whatever you want.
But there’s a real threat. It’s “Nationalism” like you learned about in elementary school. The blending of government, religion, and “patriotism” which shows itself in all of our ugliest episodes.
Why is Iran to be counted among them? Because the “Supreme leader” offered a bounty on a man, for writing a book. He offered a bounty to any good “Muslim” in religious terms to anyone to kill a man for nothing more than writing a book.
That’s the impulse we’re talking about in the worst form.
Interestingly, the last time Iran or rather Persia invaded another country was during the Safavid Dynasty (1501–1722)
Which speaks volumes about Iran’s intentions…!
btw. The 6th ranked school in MN during 2008 is a Charter.
behind some pretty good schools http://www.treknorth.org/html/press_articles/12_10_07p.html
I’d feel significantly less worried if their President wouldn’t use such bellicose language … especially since their current regime doesn’t have all that great civil rights record
Lt Gen Ronald Burgess, the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said the centrifuges at Iran’s Natanz nuclear plant were producing low-enriched uranium and were not yet being used to produce the more highly-enriched uranium needed for weapons.
One must have highly enriched uranium to make a bomb.
Iran may aspire to build one, But what I have read elsewhere is that they don’t have the capablity.
as·pi·ra·tion·al [ àspi ráyshən'l, àspi ráyshnəl ]
adjective
Definition:
ambitious: showing a desire or ambition to achieve something, especially self-improvement or material success
the aspirational working class
That’s right Jack,
designing and building a 2 point implosion device doesn’t demonstrate aspiration or desire (if they are doing that).
Let me take a moment to puke and vomit
But thanks for the Condescending Grammar Lesson
Ahminejad is merely a figurehead…! I give no credence to what he says…! I’m perplexed as to why the false meme that Israel should be wiped of the map still has legs…! 8-(
Good Will in afgahanistan? You have to be kidding me?
I guess a lot of Good Will comes of shooting and killing innocent civilians and then covering it up.
Yea Yea lets pull out of afgahanistan and invade Iran.
Then install another dictator Shah,yea we did this before.
That ought to go over well with the general populace. We will create tons of Good Will with the general populace that way.
Or maybe we can just stop killing browned skinned people.
and he does it so convincingly and with great enthusiasm.
Fear does strange and weird things to people (if that has any affect here – but I suspect it does)
Lt Gen Ronald Burgess, the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said the centrifuges at Iran’s Natanz nuclear plant were producing low-enriched uranium and were not yet being used to produce the more highly-enriched uranium needed for weapons.
One must have highly enriched uranium to make a bomb.
Iran may aspire to build one, But what I have read elsewhere is that they don’t have the capablity.
Time to do some more reading maybe. Once they have sufficient mass of low grade. Six months to enrich it to high grade.
Bullshit…! Why do you think the figure that’s being bandied about is: 6 yrs before 1 nuke is built…?
ok …
> Well Truman wasn’t a Theocrat. He wasn’t even really much of a believer. Neither was FDR.
Of course they were. And it’s only gotten worse.
> American theocrats don’t run the government, Iranian ones do.
Really? Iranian theocrats run the American government? Oh, you meant… Anyway, wrong again. From Obama on down, they are True Believers in Gawd. In Gawd They Trust. Ask them. Then ask the military.
> Iran Theocrats would have their finger on the button, American ones would not.
You mean we wouldn’t, say, oh what’s the word I’m looking for… oh yeah, “obliterate” them, in a heartbeat, if we felt our cause was just? Wrong. Ask them. How about that new “nuclear posture”? We carved out an exception to specifically threaten Iran. Oh, our finger is definitely on the button.
> And no, as I’m not being an American exceptionalness guy. I’ll sit here and knock American stuff all day, again this is a straw man.
‘Fraid not. See your next hypocrisy below…
> Just because America did bad doesn’t mean everyone gets to do bad.
In other words, only we can get away with doing bad. This is 100% hypocritical and unfair. If you want to be fair, then others have the right to do what you do. See? So if you preemptively make war on a country which did not even threaten to attack you, then you implicitly grant other countries the right to preemptively make war on you without you attacking them. If you claim the right to extrajudicially murder people in other countries at your sole discretion, then you implicitly grant other countries the right to murder people in your country at their sole discretion. And if you claim the right to drop nukes on civilian population centers in other countries at your sole discretion, then you implicitly grant other countries the right to drop nukes on your civilian populations at their sole discretion.
Unless you’re “an exceptionalness guy”, of course.
Personally, I favor nuclear disarmament for all countries.
Quite the lecturing rant. Nice
1. There’s a difference between tea party/Christian soldiers/militias/Israeli settlers…and Blackwater/Xe/Al-Qaeda, and insurgents…
2. The former: yep, there’s a foundation of extreme religious “My faith is the only faith” kind of stuff which gets translated down into killing anyone who doesn’t agree.
3. However, the latter:
a. Blackwater/Xe: It’s about money. Money which equates to power. Power over people. Period. I’ve seen no evidence that these folks are “Christian” led or fed. But I have seen enough about the billion dollar contracts, the powerful weapons they carry that can kill in a nanosecond and create humans to bow deep in mercy pleading. There’s an adrenalin rush to it. An addiction to inflicting cruelty on others. With no church attached.
b. Al Qaeda: Is a concept. A propaganda tool. The United States “created” the idea of Al Qaeda for its own purposes. Now wait, before you take the ball and run with it, let me explain: Yes, I know, there are all sorts of people from all sorts of sects in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. who aren’t too keen on the U.S. and its military intrusions. But there’s a long and sordid history as to why that not too keen thing sprouted up. With of course the CIA involved deeply, along with propping up all sorts of “interesting” characters, along with selling millions upon billions of dollars of military equipment to EVERY COUNTRY IN THAT REGION. Most times, in fact, U.S. military defense contract companies were/are selling arms to warring nations – on both sides. Or we sell to one nation that we cut a deal with: You buy arms from U.S. corporations, and when you win, we split the take. Or other creative iterations of a similar theme.
Trouble is, we’ve stirred the pot with so many different players over there that we’ve now got some folk rather mad at us. But an organized homogenous network? Are you kidding? More like rag-tag bands of resistance fighters who find they at times have something in common: hatred of U.S. military presence.
However, the meme of “Al Qaeda” as some uber-sophisticated, dedicated to kill all U.S. citizens through terrorist acts kind of consolidated religious group…wow, sure makes us give up a lot of our liberties, doesn’t it? And keeps the MIC going strong. Yet it’s inaccurate to say these sects, or even communities, practice their religions in the same way. Not by a long shot. (It would be like saying the Unitarian Universalists and Roman Catholic Churches were the same, united in their “cause” to fight against…whomever.) P.S. Osama…a boogie-man figurehead that gets the job done. May be alive, may be dead. But important to note: Whistleblower Sibel Edmonds testified that the CIA was in contact with the Bin Laden dude right up until 911. Hmm. Religious war? Don’t think so.
c. And as far as insurgents being motivated by religion…
“[Jean]MacKenzie [Kabul-based Institute for War and Peace Reporting] says the unifying element for insurgent factions in Afghanistan is their anger at the central government in Kabul — whether the grievances are the result of corrupt government administrators, civilian casualties from U.S.-led coalition air strikes, anger about house raids by foreign troops, or income losses caused by the government’s opium-eradication programs.”
http://www.rferl.org/content/Insurgency_Diversifies_As_Taliban_Forges_Alliances_With_Other_Factions/1194808.html
Regards.