Turns out that the federal government thought ahead. See, they expected a certain amount of spills and cleanups where oil is involved. So they created a tax on oil to use in the event of a disaster, not unlike what we’re seeing now in the Gulf of Mexico.
Up to $1 billion of the $1.6 billion reserve could be used to compensate for losses from the accident, as much as half of it for what is sometimes a major category of costs: damage to natural resources like fisheries and other wildlife habitats.
Under the law that established the reserve, called the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund, the operators of the offshore rig face no more than $75 million in liability for the damages that might be claimed by individuals, companies or the government, although they are responsible for the cost of containing and cleaning up the spill.
The fund was set up by Congress in 1986 but not financed until after the Exxon Valdez ran aground in Alaska in 1989. In exchange for the limits on liability, the Oil Pollution Act of 1990 imposed a tax on oil companies, currently 8 cents for every barrel they produce in this country or import.
The tax adds roughly one tenth of a percent to the price of oil. Another source of revenue is fines and civil penalties from companies that spill oil.
That’s great! The oil companies have to pay the cost of the spill… wait a sec, run those numbers by me again?
Up to $1 billion of the $1.6 billion reserve could be used to compensate for losses from the accident, as much as half of it for what is sometimes a major category of costs: damage to natural resources like fisheries and other wildlife habitats.
One billion? Hm. Says here that the total cost could exceed $14 billion. The Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund may work for a floating oil slick the size of Duluth, not Puerto Rico.
Now, the President says BP will cover the rest of the costs themselves. Incidentally, BP self-insures through its own in-house insurance company, Jupiter, so we won’t see AIG or any outside insurer roped into this mess. They may sue Halliburton or other equipment providers for faulty services and make some money that way, which would at least be a fun court session. But one way BP looks to limit their liability, other than the completely insane statutory mandate, is through ripping off the locals:
Alabama Attorney General Troy King said tonight that he has told representatives of BP Plc. that they should stop circulating settlement agreements among coastal Alabamians.
The agreements, King said, essentially require that people give up the right to sue in exchange for payment of up to $5,000 [...]
The attorney general said he is prohibited from giving legal advice to private citizens, but added that “people need to proceed with caution and understand the ramifications before signing something like that.
“They should seek appropriate counsel to make sure their rights are protected,” King said.
If BP really wanted to manage their expenses at this time, maybe they could reduce the millions in lobbying costs that, strangely, did not succeed in capping the wellhead or stopping the advance of black murk. It did manage to intellectually capture Rep. Gene Taylor, however, so I guess that was money well spent.
In the end, I’m banking on at least some taxpayer money funding the aftermath of this catastrophe, or a lot of uncompensated people with their lives in tatters.




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There is no way BP or the oil industry will pay for this. Obama needs to get off that message quick. There is also no way that BP should be “in charge” of this disaster. Obama better get off that message too.
And who pays that tax on oil? The consumer. So, the consumer (we) pays for the spill liability beyond the $75 million cap. Once again, thank you congress for looking out for us little people!
Clearly, the offshore drilling industry is not as “safe’ as they’d have you believe. No more offshore oil, the coastal ecology and economy are worth more.
When government allows the private sector to engage in high risk (to the ecosystem) activities, the government takes on the responsibility for all accidents. As POTUS, this is Obama’s responsibility. Arguments about whose fault it is are fruitless.
But the notion that this is BP’s problem is ludicrous. Just as the financial crisis can’t be viewed as GS’s problem, so also it is juvenile to consider this BP’s problem.
Barry playing it down the middle will NOT work this time.
By continuing the arguments that BP will pay, and that it is BP’s responsibility to clean up the mess, Obama plays into the false right-wing narrative that private corporations can be trusted to protect the environment and made to pay if they don’t.
This is absolute nonsense. They will NEVER pay for the consequences. Even the price of their products don’t come close to covering the costs. This is pure right-wing fiction.
How about rushing a bill through Congress that charges people for saying, “Drill, Baby, Drill!”? We could call it, “Pay, Baby, Pay!” And then, in the immortal words of the hippie button that came out ribbing Adam Clayton Powell, we could get out our, “Keep the Baby, Faith!” buttons to hope that some good will come out of this.
I do not think any of these estimates have included the real estate devalue of coastal properties both commercial and residential.
The tourism figures touch on that but are not a full accounting for this loss.
Perhaps the real estate industry could give an idea?
The corporations acting through their representatives in the government are the sharks and the American people are the suckers.
Obama was not in a position to speak the truth, even if he were so inclined. He was just distracting us from our awareness of who’ll really pay for the spill.
Hopey Changey
Oh, the Federal government is already involved. But don’t you want BP to at least help to clean up the mess it made? I know this is Crap on Obama Week (for a lot of folks, that’s every week), but not everything in the world is his fault, hard as it may be to believe.
By the way, they’re still saying they will pay, but it looks like they left themselves a few outs:
But of course, some folks here don’t think BP should pay for the spill anyway.
Hey, How come you’re picking on Duluth David ? (MN or GA)
I’m curious, how can anyone estimate the size or extent of the cleanup if the friggin well is still blowin quarter of a million fricken gallons a day into the Gulf and headin toward the Atlantic and Caribbean Oceans as well?
Mental Masturbation
It is way, way too early to predict what amount of money might be attached to the BP Atlantis blowout, but one casualty might be the entire Atlantis project itself. Until more is known about how the fire started and whose orders kept the blowout preventers from functioning or even being properly emplaced, the fate of that entire field may be up in the air, so to say.
If the oil is not contained within a couple of weeks, I foresee far more liability for BP than they might be able to withstand. I’ve been recommending since Saturday that the State of Alaska consider buying up the part of BP that operates in Alaska, at
fireoil spill sale prices.Savvy businessmen.
Consumers should pay. If consumers buy the oil products for their cars, then it makes sense to me they should also pay the costs of externalities — including the economic consequences of spills. Same principle suggests that if we want to limit GHG missions and associated climate change, consumers should also pay a tax on carbon emissions.
A lot of our problems come from trying to hide these costs and escape responsibility for them, pretending it’s someone else’s fault. Pogo was right.
By the way, Kendrick Meek informs us that Marc Rubio is still pro-offshore drilling.
Indeed.
One of BP’s strategies is to “disperse” the oil at the source, so that it doesn’t seem to concentrate at the surface and then drift onto wetlands, beaches, and doesn’t appear on the surface of fishing areas. But we don’t seem to know that this amount of oil does to the ocean itself — and when the consequences can’t be traced, it’s hard to identify plaintiffs who have standing to sue.
So a good legal strategy for BP is to disperse consequences to non-plaintiffs, i.e, beings who have no standing to sue.
Yep, very prudent.
I’m hoping those that are working the spreadsheets on cleanup use these parameters:
50 or 100 Million Gallons Floatin in the Gulf
Category 3,4 or 5 comes ashore in
Galveston,
Austin,
New Orleans,
Biloxi
Mobile
Or Tallahassee
hell, they might want to even factor a Cat 1 or 2
You got that right. The oil execs who pushed for reduced safety won’t see the millions they personally pocket reduced in the slightest. If fact they’ll probably get a larger bonus because they’re working sooo haaard.
did he bother to mention the current head of his Party reaffirmed the need to drill domestically just last friday ??
Having stolen their livelihoods and beached their fishing vessels with the ongoing spillING, BP may now hire fishermen, shrimpers, and oystermen to assist with Gulf Coast cleanup. Of course, in order to be hired (just like in Alaska 21 years ago) those whose employment has been ruined will need to sign away any claims they have against BP.
It’s only fair. To BP.
So there must be a consensus that BP pays and then factors the costs into the retail price consumers pay, as usual. That is what you’re saying, right? Ultimately, whether the government or the privately owned, for-profit entity pays, we taxpayers and consumers get to pay the bill for whatever negligence may have caused the spill.
Residential real estate values are set by willing buyer willing seller. Willing buyer is a function of desirability of the real estate, income & unemployment levels. In the gulf area? I’d expect desirability to hit close to zero, incomes to drop and unemployment to rise.
Residential 75% short term, 25% to 50% long term (fear of loss from another oil slick on the beach).
Commercial is worth the rents it generates, which is a function of the businesses renting the commercial real estate’s income, income which is a function of consumers’ income & unemployment.
Vacant commercial real estate is worth land value, or zero depending on the valuation method. Let’s say a 30% to 50% drop in value.
There will be a bailout. The loss income and drop in Commercial Real Estate values affects the rentier class, and because of our Government’s desire to protect the assets of the rich the Government will do everything they can to protect the wealth of the rich.
Expect some of a moratorium on commercial real estate foreclosures, pressure on the Banks to give large property owners relief on loans, and a state property tax holiday.
Nationalize BP, sell the assets to pay cleanup and reimbursement (won’t be enough, maybe .10 on the dollar)
Let the Stock Holders and Equity Partners take the fricken hit
Sure BP will pay, just like Exxon paid up after fighting tool and nail in court for almost twenty years, only to succeed in having their five billion dollar fine cut to only ten percent of that by our populist SCOTUS.
it is feckin’ killing me that through no fault of their own, homeowners and small business people have to depend on the bailed out Banksters
Oh, don’t get me wrong, like you (I think), I would prefer that it bankrupt them trying to pay for it all. I should have been clearer: BP will never come close to paying for ALL the damage that will be done.
The right-wing narrative that a private corporation can be made to bear the risk of, and made to pay for, damage to the ecosystem by governent is nonsense. If this were true, gas would be $20/gallon. And, btw, we would STILL pay for it.
When the POTUS first uses corporate propaganda about safety to allow a very risky venture to go forward, and then uses more corporate propaganda about “responsibility” after the enterprise craters, he is just framing the whole issue in a ludicrous right-wing narrative — beginning to end.
That’s what I meant. Of course, it’s not Obama’s “fault” that it happened. But it is his responsibility to talk to the American people in a way that doesn’t just confirm right-wing bullshit.
When all is said and done, to employe a bit of moronic mythology that still only appeals to the truly brain dead, the people thought they elected a Savior and instead got a Judas. Ain’t life a hoot.
I’m saying something different, I think. Each of us should pay the costs of the products we consume. But many of the costs are “externalities” — they’re not included in the price, and the market won’t price them unless forced to. You can force the market to add the price of externalities — adverse effects — by imposing a tax on that part of the product that creates them.
So an unpriced, external cost of off-shore drilling is the risk/cost of economic and environmental damage of explosions/leaks/blowouts/gushers, etc. Those costs become manifest in lost fishing grounds that put people and whole communities out of work and onto welfare/unemployment and other costly government services. And that doesn’t count the costs on the environmental features that we don’t see in economic terms — the health the ocean, etc.
Whenever it’s foreseeable that an activity can impose these hidden costs, government should do some combination of: (1) imposing a very large tax on off-shore drilling, which will force the producers to include that tax as a cost in the final price. If that makes the price too high for you and me, and we buy less gasoline and drive less, that’s the correct (economic) answer; (2) impose very stringent regulation/restrictions on the activity, which will drive up its costs, etc; (3) ban it altogether, because you reach the conclusion that if the worst happened, whatever benefits it supposedly has could not justify it the damage it causes.
What we’ve had over the last couple of decades has been a concerted effort to convince us that (1) the risks of accidents is de minimus; (2) the consequences can be contained to acceptable levels; (3) we know what we’re doing; (4) the benefits overwhelm every other factor. Turns out, surprise, surprise, all of those things were wrong, and now Mother Nature will extract its price for our hubris.
But some coincidence, every week seems to be Crap on Progressives Week in the White House. There might be some relationship between those two points, maybe.
Saw Obama for 30 seconds on the teevee cracking jokes in front of a bunch of bow tied stiffs. He sure is hilarious. And by hilarious, I mean terrible beyond all comprehension.
Obama talking about how “safe” off shore drilling is/was, just weeks before, as he goes against another campaign promise (AGAIN!) is his fault.
When established, the Oil Spill Trust Fund was not actually funded. It took the Exxon Valdez spill to force Congress and Bush I to put the tax and collection mechanism in place. After reaching it’s mandated size of $1B in 1993, the tax was not collected again until after EPAct 2005 when the fund size was expanded to $2.7B. Between EPAct coming into force and today, the fund only managed to grow to $1.9B.
If memory serves, one of the reasons that brought that tax re-instatement into play was the major spill on the Delaware River in 2004 and the huge runup in oil prices and associated outcry about industry revenues.
So, we have a situation where everyone denies that there are dangers until a major accident happens, some “unpredictable” disaster triggers new but inadequate action, claims are then rebuilt that the whole industry is safe and that new regulation is strangling the industry. Rinse, repeat.
In the end, though, BP will pay for very little of the cost of this mess. As with Exxon, much of their expenditures will be on lawyers, and just like nuclear the [legislative] limits on liability that these people argued were at the same time 1) absolutely necessary, and 2) completely superfluous because of the high standards and technology of current industry practices.
Obama promoting coastal drilling earlier this year was a clear look into his soul on environmentally related matters, just like his U-turn on the FISA statute.
Obviously this is becoming everyone’s problem, but that’s not the issue. The issue is who’s responsibility it is. The BP president is avoiding the issue of who’s responsibility the massive environmental damage is going to be. Compared to the massive damage, the “cleanup” will be cheap. I suspect that he sees the cleanup as capping the well and getting the oil out of the water. After that, all of the Gulf Coast (and possibly Atlantic) seaboard communities that rely on the sea for their livelihood, and all of the animals that are already suffering and dying, will be on their own to fend for themselves. BP should be held to account for the full environmental damage, not just the cleanup. The best way to accomplish this is through a massive effort to fully document all of the damage that is done in the coming weeks. That being said, I hope there is some abatement to the oil flow so that the damage can be limited. Regardless, progressives and environmental organizations can play a role in exposing the full extent of the damage.
again on friday night Bill Maher was ‘sampling’ you – he spoke of how we are actually paying approx $15/gal when factoring in ‘true costs’
maybe you should get a WGA card :D
We will I’m sure (that is the Corporatist Model). But I disagree. Stock Holders and other owners of BP should pay, with their ownership.
If you want to set a free market example, make them responsible, take away their ownership.
Then sell it on the open market.
Yup! And there’s probably a confidentiality clause in the contract as well, preventing those hired from disclosing that they have signed away that right to sue. Seems to me that would be a nice legistlative act: preventing private contracts further limiting liability (other that the $75M cap, which would be nice to eliminate itself…)
At least we can take comfort in the realization that we can safely produce NUCLEAR power and store the waste without worry. (snark)
We used to test our Blow Out Preventers on every bit trip. I don’t know why BP’s weren’t working or were not regularly tested. They should’ve been able to shut that well in from the first sign of trouble. Further, all focus seems to be in keeping the oil from land. Seems like the ocean is just as important. This is a horrible, horrible disaster.
Agree.
Surprisingly, this tax and sinking fund are too small. Congress ought immediately to cut $14 billion, plus a few billion for margin of error, from tax subsidies given to these leviathans and/or impose an immediate tax increase or surtax on profits. These guys are just getting by, right, I mean their CEO’s don’t retire on $400 million nest eggs or anything, do they?
If Congress refuses to do such things, it is explicitly saying it will distribute the costs for such clean-ups to the middle class. After all, we’re the ones who use all that oil, right; the rich pay a much smaller percentage of tax than the middle class and nearly half of American corporations pay no net federal income tax.
Now, oil lobbyists, like tobacco lobbyists, will take none of this lying down (except at the Mayflower). They are already scurrying about Washington and Georgetown. Here’s a tip for our negotiations skills-challenged president: Put a few hammers of Thor into your proposed oil industry tax reform and cost recovery packages. Then you can delete a few of them to close the deal.
But here’s the thing. The government doesn’t need a deal with oil; it can impose taxes and cost recovery measures because it needs them to pay for the industry’s problems.
Sadly, I suspect all that the Rahmster sees here is a marketing opportunity to do none of those things in exchange for a few million for Democratic Party coffers. Rahm is so public-spirited, he makes Haley Barbour seem uncorrupt.
Which brings up one last item. Congress will be under serious pressure in an election year to offer Katrina-sized dollop of cash to aid in state “recovery efforts”. Credible programs would aid recovery, enhance family security, lower local unemployment and improve Gulf Coast infrastructure. Corrupt programs that enhance Haley Barbour’s wallet and election fund wouldn’t be worth a dead brown pelican.
Been waiting for my friend the rig boss to come back on shore. He is on a 2 month old full floater working about 150 miles off LA. He tells me most of their time is spent plugging holes. I feel certain he will know what went on.
Hey, OFG! Did you work on off-shore rigs? When?
Nationalize BP.
That could be tricky.
The B in BP stands for British. ;-}
Karen Russell has a fresh cross-post up: NFL, NHL, NBA Unions Should Join MLBPA, Boycott Arizona
You may not understand what Nationalizing means then. Doesn’t matter where the ownership is based.
But thanks for letting me know what the B is for
I know this is Crap on Obama Week (for a lot of folks, that’s every week), but not everything in the world is his fault, hard as it may be to believe.
Gosh Obama is just the President of the United States, why would anyone think he’s got any power? Obama afterall feels that he’s got the unilateral power of life and death over US citizens and that he can lock people up in gulags without trial, so when Obama outsources everything to BP and considers celebrity cocktail parties more important than major environmental disasters, his response is of course judged. Hurricane Katrina wasn’t Bush’s fault either as Bush didn’t create the hurricane, but Bush was held responsible for his [lack of] response to the disaster just as Obama’s response to the disaster should be judged. Obama has showed the public that he views joking around with Jay Leno as more important than the oil disaster as he just couldn’t tear himself away from the cocktail party circuit.
It’s disgusting, isn’t it? Amazing how cruise ships are allowed to just dump all their trash out in the middle of the ocean. And I’m sure there are many other even worse examples. The governmental level of concern for our beautiful planet is just about zip, zero.
Rarely disagree with you but consumers did not cause the spill/leak. It was caused by a for profit giant international company. They were negligent. They will be proven in courts over and over that they have to pay.
This just in
They’re still trying to make it about the money.
Can the W.H. actually get on task? The task is to stop the gushing fucking well. It’s not about the money until they get the mother fucker capped.
I agree with most of what you write. But progressives must understand that there is no effective way in our society — politically or economically — for making businesses pay for these kinds of mistakes. BP doesn’t have the resources to pay for this. The true economic costs could reach $100 billion — and may not stop there.
We can’t allow our so-called “leaders” to finger point and shift blame in response to these kinds of catastrophes. We as a society have to accept the fact that the private sector’s assessments of safety upfront are usually (purposely) wrong, and what they can be made to “pay for” if an accident happens is likely to be only a very small part of the cost.
The lesson that is learned from this cannot be that it’s a private company’s responsibility to protect the environment. They NEVER will. The lesson has to be that they will almost always lie upfront and wiggle out on the back end.
But, if one listens to Obama, that’s not what one hears.
that’s great. Now that we have the framework, lets offer BP the following: Congress will pass a law limiting their liability on the oil spill if any America, at any time, can enroll into Medicare. we need the oil industry muscle to achieve single-payer healthcare. Right now, we them over a barrel. Why waste a good crises?
That’s the dirty little secret. They can’t cap it. they have to let it bleed out and they wont the the public this. No one has asked how many millions of barrels of oil did they tap into?
Tiber Field contains an estimated 4 to 6 BILLION BARRELS
But with all the forceful talk out of the W.H. about making BP Pay (currently their only talking point), it’s one hell of a Shell Game (no pun intended)
Capitalism and private property are myths. We all pay for all that each other do. Just a waste of time in sibling wrangling over fears somebody else is getting more.
Such as, nuclear reactor accidents.
since so much is blowing up in Obama’s face, maybe stay away from nuclear power generating facilities.
Price Anderson Act establishes a no fault insurance-type system in which the first $10 billion is industry-funded as described in the Act .any claims above the $10 billion would be covered by the federal government.
They are talking now about doing it the American way. Set off bombs, even a nuclear bomb– for cripes sake! Shock and Awe that oil back in its hole.
Where you been TS? Haven’t heard from you for a while.
“Can the W.H. actually get on task? The task is to stop the gushing fucking well. It’s not about the money until they get the mother fucker capped.”
That’s why the WH wants the message to be all about money. Obama has failed so he wants a meme that gets away from his failure. Obama doesn’t want the focus to be on how he’d rather spend time cracking jokes with Jay Leno or how just a few weeks ago Obama said this couldn’t happen when he was doing is “drill, baby, drill” (which he hasn’t stopped).
Wrong wrong wrong. BP did it. This is just another example the the oligarchy skating on cost of doing business. They profit and we cover their losses more Dem party corporatism. The play we pay is giant rip off of the little people. Shut up and get back in line and keep moving. Phoenix Woman and Scarecrow I am calling you out on this. I have seen 90% of california wetlands on the Pacific Flyway destroyed by for profit operations while the habitat was permanently destroyed. Read Chesapeake a novel by James Mitchener. Chesapeake is the largest estuary in the USA. It is being filled in by sediment so shellfish population lower by magnitudes. many other impacts have occurred.
BP knew the risk when they installed this oil well. The eco system in the Carribean is huge and very prolific massive bird rockeries. They should have been required to have insurance coverage by whomever gave them the permits and licences. Try getting a permit for alternative energy. This is part of the crime syndicate that runs our energy systems.
BP lawyers are flying to the Gulf from NY & LA trying to get fisherman to sign a document saying they will give them 5,000 immediately. In the very fine print at the bottom it says that is the total sum of any settlement.
Not sure where we disagree. I did not say consumers “caused” the accident. That looks like the companies in charge of the drilling operations. And ideally, we’d like them to pay for the consequences of any negligence or recklessness on their part. Lawsuits are part of society’s mechanisms to impose accountability on otherwise unwilling parties. But that’s not the problem I was addressing.
I made an argument that ultimately, consumers should pay for the hidden costs they don’t see in the prices of oil-based products. And a large part of those hidden costs are the damages that spills cause that are never recovered in those lawsuits, because the costs aren’t easily priced in our economy. And I believe those unpriced costs are still very large, even if all the lawsuits to hold BP et al responsible succeed.
Why aren’t you calling for the firing of EPA head Lisa Jackson – who took 9 days to respond to the blown well – and then, didn’t do anything of substance.
[Edited by Moderator: Namecalling, particularly when it's directed at all other commenters, is not permitted at this site. If it continues, comments containing slurs, etc., may be deleted.]
They were all waiting for the spin doctors to get into position.
No doubt the first “kool kat” President’s ego tells him he can walk on the Gulf coast waters turning the oil into Dr. Pepper.
Is BP going to pay the evironmental and economic costs as well. I’m just so happy that with Obama’s leadership and corporations like BP we’re finally moving “beyond petroleum”.
That is sarcasm, right?
Nah, sharks are fast approaching extinction, and there doesn’t seem to be any end to the number of people in Washington working to screw us, so perhaps another analogy would be more appropriate?
corrupt government + corrupt corporations = petro-chernobyl
We know that the implementation failure came from Cheney’s dream company, which manages to cut corners so often they should change their name to something connoting roundness and a wish for minimal casualties. Most of the stock price hit currently shows on British Petroleum which is kind of surprising because the limited liability fund the Congress created to make sure that the pool of last resort would have to step in to pay for this. The fund supposedly has $1.6 billion in it but this is going to cost much more than that and they won’t want to deplete the pitifully resourced fund all a once. The real cost will be born by the same backstop that saved the TBTF, just as it was in Alaska. If the Exxon Valdez is any indicator, the actual cost to BP will be resolved by a series of tax breaks so BP’s only problem is public relations, which is just what their rapid response team, of PR and lawyers is attending. How Obama imagines that he is going to make BP pay for all of this when the laws are designed to make sure that doesn’t happen is another story. Of course he could have meant that he wishes BP would be held responsible but even that seems unlikely.
Exxon made out very well after Alaska, all things considered, with nearly all of the judgements overturned once they got to the SCOTUS and Congress made sure that kind of threat to oil company profitability wouldn’t be repeated.
Halliburton, on the other hand, has so many protections as a preferred contractor for the military that it seems unlikely they will even do much more than an apology to Dick Cheney for any inconvenience. Cheney, in turn, will tell the investigators to go f*ck themselves and that will be that.
You did not say consumers caused the accident, so?
BP is not the whole oil industry, rather 95% of oil and gas is state owned. They are part of the big 6. Their stock profits are of off the chart dazzling. Maybe the INVESTORS who make the profits should pay with lower dividends and share value…its the free market dontcha know.
“As a group, the supermajors control about 5% of global oil and gas reserves with largest supermajor, ExxonMobil, ranked 14th. Conversely, 95% of global oil and gas reserves are controlled by state-owned oil companies, primarily located in the middle east.[5]” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermajor
Petronobyl
I understand what nationalizing means. I just don’t think the US will do that to it’s biggest warrenterra backscratch pardner, the B in BP.
We all saw how well that worked when we “nationalized” the car companies.
Sorry I wasn’t clear on that.
I agree with you!
Obama talked like a progressive during the election, and once he got to the white house became George Bush. Obama is no PROGRESSIVE. Enough with the lies.
Obama’s greatest hits.
Obama supports Drill Baby Drill, Been to Gulf Coast Lately?
Obama loves the ides of making people buy Insurance
Obama hates the idea of a Public Option
Obama loves war
Obama hates Drug Importation
Obama hates Unions
SUN TZU says it best all war is base on Deception. (Obama deceived the entire progressive movement)
Bill Maher said it best, Obama is starting to sound as DUMB as BUSH.
Guess who is going to pay for the OIL SPILL?
The AMERICAN TAX PAYER. (Oil companies are too big to Fail)
Oh yes.. just kind of disgusted with all of the bogus marketing and propaganda that corporate money can buy.
If the oil firms incorporate the negative externalities offset by the positive externalities into their balance sheets, they would see the real costs of production. The economy would thereby be moderated more realistically by sustainability across the whole economic spectrum. The end users would carry the burden of only a portion of that realistic assessment (as before). The burden is determined by demand as well as supply, after all. However, the end-user would end up paying most of the real cost.
I would venture that each penny spent in preventing the oil from coming ashore will offset $100 or $1000 or even more in cleanup costs.
The problem there seems to be that there isn’t a good strategy of containment out at sea. The pictures I’ve seen of the attempts look like something a kid with a wading pool would expect to work. Much of the reason that other countries have higher mandatory constraints on avoidance than the US is that they were smart enough to understand that the closer you force the containment to be resolved the better the outcome. Sadly that leads to reduced profitability and that makes gambling that failure won’t occur seem like so much fun.
BP rolled dice and lost this time. Time to pass the dice to the next shooter.
Nice Nathan – time to copyright and/or trademark that one …
I completely disagree with the notion that it’s somehow *all* the consumers’ collective “fault,” and so, therefore, we the people are “responsible” for the ongoing oil spilling and environmental disaster bc we use fossil fuels.
Yes, I DO use fossil fuels, but only bc I’m forced into it. Where I can, I avoid petrochemicals, but that’s nearly impossible bc fossil fuels are so interwoven into some many consumer goods. It’s NOT simply about driving cars and trucks, nor about driving gas guzzlers v. less-guzzling vehicles. Fossil fuels are in just about everything these days.
Many of us tree hugging dfh Eco-nazi’s (per blubber Limbaugh) have been advocating against the whole addiction to fossil fuels for decades, and to what effect? Not much, esp lately. We’re shouted at, dissed, mocked, derided and called stupid and effen retarded, not only by the right, but the so-called “left” (ha ha).
And what choices do citizens HAVE? The auto, oil and gas industry have foisted fossil fuel consuming vehicles onto us, despite prototype alternatives being available for decades. Ford provided a very good electric car in the 1980s (I think), but you could only lease it. Once it wore out, they were removed and the line was never continued.
Some people can set up their lives to enable them to walk or ride bikes most of the time. Sadly, that’s not always possible.
Another issue is the crumbing and crappy public transport system in this country, which leaves consumers with even less alternatives. Los Angeles, for ex, used have a very good public transport system until Detroit forced it to tear it down in the earlier part of the 20th C in order that cars would be bought, along with gas. It is only recently that LA has gotten back a somewhat decent public transport system at the cost of billions.
So to say that consumers are “responsible” is ignoring reality and facts.
I agree that I will pay and pay and pay for this disaster, no matter what. It’s laughable to listen to BHO farting about how BP is getting “the bill.” Yeah, and so what? It’s you and me who will PAY big time for this, nevermind the ecologoical and economic disaster perpetrated on us.
But my initial point is: don’t be so fast to just blame consumers for using fossil fuels. We often don’t have much choice, and it’s not as if SOME of us, at least, haven’t been advocating and pushing back against this for DECADES. What have you done in terms of political action to protest our dependence on fossil fuels??????
And finally: yes, BHO is responsible, too. No, he didn’t create the disaster (despite what some rightwing websites are pumping out), but just like BUSH, the lesser, BHO’s actions speak far louder than words. Yeah: a cocktail effen party… sheesh. Disgusting. What an empty suit. Proving once again, that I have a right to constructively criticize BHO. He’s doing a LOUSY job. FWIW, during his campaign, BHO told us to lob off the constructive criticism, so here’s mine: TELL THE TRUTH, BHO, and let the American people know that WE will be paying for this disaster in many ways… NOT BP. And TELL THE TRUTH that offshore drilling is NOT safe.
There.
Check news websites. There is a news blackout on oil spill stories.
Hell, how much can duct tape cost?
fyi… Austin’s not on the coast. It’s in central Texas.
:-) You’re the only person that seems to have caught that …
Hi librty. thanks for noticing. Been around doing some web work for a friend and working in the garden.
Also the news of man’s foolishness sometimes just gets to me and I need to take a break.
In fact where are the pictures? From the satellites etc.? Someone also suggested BP might be hiring up all the aircraft so nobody can get pictures from the air. Scandalous.!!
I’m late to the thread and I live in Austin. This is where people come to when a hurricane is forecast or after one has landed. Our convention center housed the Katrina refugees for weeks. I was there every day volunteering with the Red Cross, helping people get their diabetes testers, medicines, wheelchairs, counseling, etc. Then when they were closing the convention center down, helping them find apartments and furnishings or make arrangements to go stay with friends and relatives in other parts of the country. It was heartbreaking to see what was happening with people who’d already had so little.
Just registered the domain name, and will put up a blog if you’ll agree to contribute regularly and frequently in the coming days/weeks?
You’ve had a lot of useful and technical commentary on this issue, and I’d love to have Seymour Friendly cross posting there too.
TS!!! How nice to see you, old girl ;-). I’ve been worrying that you gave up on us here, after your last comments that I saw earlier in the year. So happy to be wrong about that. We need your wise voice, especially in these dark days. Welcome home.
Nah, they’re all conservatives down there. They won’t accept any stinkin’ govt money.
I’d be honored to contribute Nathan.
Count on it
http://blog.skytruth.org/
Have to send them a few of those little Christmas Trees …
Are they supposed to use the “little Christmas trees” in the manner that I would suggest?
If so, why not bigger Christmas trees?
True – BP’s liability to the fisherman, home owners, etc – indeed to reimbursements to the US if requested – is limited to $75 million. They are liable for “clean-up” – whatever the hell that means.
The tax fund – whose money is already spent if you buy the anti-social security folks theory that Trust funds that buy gov bonds have no real assets – is the only source of payouts – and even then the fund is too small to cover damage that is estimated to exceed $14 billion by the time the oil is contained and the mess clean up is completed as per whatever standards BP uses.
“legitimate claims – appropriate amounts” is what the BP folks have said – not that they would pay up anything once the $75 million max payout in the Valdez law is reached.
How about %5,000 and you and your family give up any claim against BP – that is the current BP offer – as is “help us with booms and your knowledge of the currents and with the use of your boat as needed on a per day payment agreement and you are hired – provided you give up all claims against BP for the loss of your fishery.”
http://www.petronobyl.com/
How’s that look?
All I need to do is add you, and whoever else wants to contribute, as an author, and we’re off and running.
You think we have real news in the USA?
You do know that Walter Cronkite Died?
The corporate news no longer talks about the USA eight year War for Oil in Iraq.
We know that the Oil spill in the Gulf will not be discuss
Looks good Nathan.
Is it ready to accept contributions?
(bp’s corporate website is virtually non-responsive at this moment – very slow)
Yep, ready. I’m going to post a Seminal diary regarding asking for contributors.
Just e-mail me at: nathan dot aschbacher at gmail dot com
Then I can send you an invite through the Blogger system, and you’ll be able to make direct contributions while I add other things, like an “About” and “Contact” page, etc.
This is curious. They haven’t stopped the flow but the implication is that the dispersant is preventing the Crude Oil from reaching the surface.
One can speculate, one possibility being the dispersant is modifying the crude oil’s specific gravity so that it settles to the bottom of the gulf.
Or BP is truly magical and making the crude oil simply disappear.
Anyone know David Copperfield’s whereabouts?
Anybody with an ecological or biological background have any idea what affect 5, 10 or 20 million gallons of Light Crude laying on the bottom of the Gulf will have?
I just play a Nobel-winning biologist on my computer, but I can tell you with complete scientific certainty: It will be great, just simply great. Disney is already gearing up to make the movie.
Hi to you. Thanks for missing me. No I never give up an attachment. I have been lurking some and taking a few deep breaths. I hope your grass grows green and the roses are blooming as they are up here.
p.s. When you call the EPA, to comment or to ask questions, they, the US EPA provide BP’s telephone number.
Now that’s effeciency
This is *totally* brilliant!
And, there’s this … Sierra Club: “Oil spill is America’s Chernobyl”
Perhaps include the “environmental artists?”
And commentary from those who experienced the Exxon Valdez disaster? I heard Randi Rhodes say on her show today that the Alaskan fishermen are advising the Gulf fisherman to forget about “anyone coming to help you.” I am so sad but sure that’s right: they will not be made “whole.” And Edward Teller is reporting that everything playing out in the Gulf is (except for shooting at cleanup workers and I say it’s early …) exactly as it happened in Alaska. Katrina is relevant as well, unfortunately.
What will happen has happened before, but perhaps not as bad. :-(((((
Thanks so much. It is a great site,
Indeed I have missed you, darlin’. I could tell you were really conflicted about some of the angry dialogue we were having here, and I was afraid you’d decided to move on. Like you, I never like to lose an attachment, ;-), so I’m delighted to see you again.
And yes, spring is taking hold around here, albeit not in the news.
Perhaps ELF or Green Peace or those who stands to benefit from this incident? Has any news service or the government considered the possibility of planted exposives? by who?why?how? why the rush to name it an accident? Why send SWAT teams to other platforms?Where is the investigative news?
China,Iran,Red Hugo,Russia,drilling laterally or Soros and a New World Order for the Control of all Energy.
You need to think of Big Pictures.
How about the Sierra Club remaining mute? Where is the outcry from the so called enviorment progressive orgs that take $$$$$ to be ahead of the curve? No comments, no action from any of them so far.
Obama has lagged, and has been more than disappointing on this.
Looks great. Great title.