You may not see them out at lunch, in your office, or while you rush to work in the morning. They are the New Unemployed, the long-term jobless, whose numbers have reached historic levels during the Great Recession. They didn’t buy and sell derivative contracts on Wall Street; they didn’t securitize bad mortgages; they didn’t make rotten decisions to over-extend their financial firms. No, they just had the misfortune of living at the wrong time, in the midst of an epic crash. And now they’re being told that their jobs are permanently gone.
For the last two years, the weak economy has provided an opportunity for employers to do what they would have done anyway: dismiss millions of people — like file clerks, ticket agents and autoworkers — who were displaced by technological advances and international trade.
The phasing out of these positions might have been accomplished through less painful means like attrition, buyouts or more incremental layoffs. But because of the recession, winter came early.
They call it “creative destruction,” where new efficiencies squeeze out old jobs. According to the article, 1.7 clerical and administrative jobs have been eliminated since the recession began. Printing machine operators (for newspapers and periodicals) were down 25%. Travel agents were down 40%; I know a couple personally who have been laid off.
I don’t deny that companies looking to cut corners will look to automate what human beings once performed, at a lower cost to the bottom line. What I reject is the conclusion of this article, that not only are these jobs gone forever, but that jobs for these people are similarly a memory.
Millions of workers who have already been unemployed for months, if not years, will most likely remain that way even as the overall job market continues to improve, economists say. The occupations they worked in, and the skills they currently possess, are never coming back in style. And the demand for new types of skills moves a lot more quickly than workers — especially older and less mobile workers — are able to retrain and gain those skills.
There is no easy policy solution for helping the people left behind. The usual unemployment measures — like jobless benefits and food stamps — can serve as temporary palliatives, but they cannot make workers’ skills relevant again.
While creative destruction is a hallmark of a lot of downturns, we’ve seen nothing like this. The number of unemployed looking for more than six months is up to 45.9% – the highest in at least 60 years. This idea that we can throw millions of workers overboard before their retirements, because of automation, assumes that technological advances that displace workers are some kind of new thing. In an age where corporations profits have not flowed to workers, where wages have been stagnant for over a decade, I refuse to accept that an entire segment of working poor can never again hold a job.
For example, the government could engage in direct hiring for any number of positions that would bring social benefits, things that computers cannot do – day care, infrastructure repair, landscaping and maintenance, and all the increased administrative (yes, administrative) work that would accompany this new hiring, be it scheduling or accounting or architecture or matching employees and employers.
The President speaks in Buffalo, New York, today, and he will implore Congress to pass more job creation measures (remember them) and attack Republicans for failing to help rebuild the country. And I’m glad he’s still willing to even say the word “jobs.” Because people like Cynthia Norton, the former administrative assistant from Jacksonville profiled in the article, can’t afford to wait. We cannot have millions of Americans living in this kind of despair.
“Sometimes I think I’d be better off in jail,” she says, only half joking. “I’d have three meals a day and structure in my life. I’d be able to go to school. I’d have more opportunities if I were an inmate than I do here trying to be a contributing member of society.”
You’d think a wealthy nation with so many people holding that kind of mindset would do something about it.



83 Comments


Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL News Desk
There was a bizarre reference on NPR this morning to manufacturing in Buffalo,
a sector of the economy where, according to the reporter, “there has not been much growth recently.”
Which brings to mind Emperor Hirohito’s comment at the end of WWII,
“The war has developed not necessarily to Japan’s advantage.”
OT but relevant.
NBC reported last night that 31% favor a third party. 83% think the two-party system is not working well.
For those dismissive of the third party concept, PLEASE TAKE NOTICE!!!
31% is a third of the entire pie, for the math-challenged lol.
I grew up in Buffalo, left in 1962 at the peak of the mfg boom. The town is a shadow its former self, although not as bad as Detroit or some other cities in Michigan.
I have a meeting of the SUNY-New Paltz Foundation this morning. Because of NYS’s budget woes, Gov. Paterson demanded a one-day furlough of all state employees, including the SUNY system. It was stayed by a TRO, but is just another example of the fact that only the little guys are paying for the sins of the elite.
I’m one of the long term un/under-employed.
I have to admit though that the NY Times article seemed to me to be just a bit too condescending in both tone and conclusion.
For the record, many folks in similar situations to me (and Ms Norton), have learned the technology now being used against us. The author sure seems to want to blame us for things we may have recognized years ago and gone out of our way to learn the appropriate skills to do.
Excellent post. I would always add four major items to employment possibilities.
Lay out fiber super high speed internet to every single dwelling in the land which has electricity or a hard line phone.
High speed rail and other energy saving transportation infrastructure.
Green grid.
Single payer health care system for all.
This would be great investment for decades or more to come… and create millions of jobs.
Meaning O will do just the opposite.
This is just what George Orwell described in The Road To Wigan Pier in 1937. Thanks, Obama. This is your mess now so dble thnks fer extending the human misery that began with RayGun. Hope you enjoy joining kkklintone as the next adopted Bush brother.
“You’d think a wealthy nation with so many people holding that kind of mindset would do something about it.”
David, oh poor naive author. You imply that wealthy people or politicians give a fuck about anyone but themselves. Isn’t that how we came to be in this situation in the first place?
Silly Rabbit…
The downsizing of many industries/companies has also resulted in loading more onto remaining employees who are therefore sometimes stressed beyond their capacity to cope. This happened to several TX Instruments workers I was acquainted with. Of course, the company pointed to its bottom line improvement – without regard for the employees expected to carry on its business as best they could manage.
I agree that technology works against the unemployed worker, tech keeps moving on as the workers try to find work. I’ve helped an unemployed friend get up to speed and stay current with the tech, (still unemployed 15+ months and counting).
Obama is now a member of the Prez’ club,only Prez of the US can be members.
These guys don’t give a flying f..k about ordinary Americans except for Jimmy Carter maybe.
His constituents are now the wealthy CEO’s and the founders of Industry.
simply put we don’t have a voice.
Think about the crap we are leaving for our kids & grand kids,crowded classrooms,cut school programs….well you get the picture.Absolutely sickening.
What about all the jobs that have been SAVED!
Maybe we should talk to the people who are in SAVED jobs!
Neoliberalism is gospel now. Obummer is a disciple. Therein lies our problem. The dude is ideologically averse to pragmatism, though he seems to think he’s pragmatic. Obviously, oligarchic capitalism is a major failure, impoverishing all of us. Yet, Obummer continues to believe. FDR, no friend of leftist causes, still saw the problems with plutocracy. Obummer embraces it because he has a major inferiority complex. He believes the big-jowled white man corporatists are our saviors, not our enemies.
Notice the quote from the laid-off woman the interviewed:
“If you’re not a minority, or not handicapped, or not a young parent, or not a veteran, or not in some other certain category, your hope of finding help and any hope of finding work out there is basically nil,” Ms. Norton says. “I know. I’ve looked.”
Tell me she is not going to end up at a Tea Party meeting soon.
http://www.guerillapost.com
I’m not dismissive of it because I think it’s impossible. I have very little doubt that a sound plurality can be built outside of the existing parties. Hell, it’d have already happened if people hadn’t continued to fall to the paradox of lesserevilism, because they thought their individual vote for an alternative would be wasted, by discounting the possibility that it wouldn’t be only their individual vote.
I’m dismissive of a 3rd party, because I don’t understand how it’s supposed to be any better at retarding representative capture and corruption. The system of representative democracy is fundamentally anti-democratic, and the arrangement of electoral politics in the U.S. specifically exacerbates the glaring weaknesses in representative democracy.
I’d support a 3rd party for no reason other than to simply shake things up, though the anti-incumbency streak that’s happening right now should be similarly effective. However, it doesn’t strike me as being a thorough long-term solution to more consistent good governance.
Who? /s
I’ve said this before on FDL. We need to hurt the Dems by making them lose election after election with a real left wing third party that will siphon votes away. Rom Immanuel doesn’t respect the real left. He needs to be wounded electorally. That’s all these vipers understand. Sorry to be so blunt, but that’s politics.
China has gone from no high speed rail — none — to having more high speed rail than other countries combined in four years. Just think what we could do with the four billion dollars we spend every week at war(s).
The average income of the Chineese worker is $9000 a year. I doubt our unemployed would do any type of work for those wages let alone building rail lines.
Nathan, I respect your thoughtfulness in all your writings that I’ve read.
Representative democracy is what we’re stuck with. I would also prefer to be the philosopher-king lol, but it’s a reach too far.
The third party I envision would be what I call “centrist,” and typified by clean accountable govt and rule of law. It would also emphasize, and this is key, people over corporations. That would be the counterforce to the fear of representative capture that you rightfully fear.
Oh, pshaw. Everyone knows central planning doesn’t work.
I sat in my doctor’s examining room for 20 minutes last week. I talked to him for five minutes and watched him type for 15 minutes. I asked why I am paying him to type and where was his medical transcription. They don’t use it anymore. I asked if it was efficient way to use his time and training. Yes he said he doesn’t have to hire staff. So you can see half as many patients and save maybe $30000.00 a year? Basically yes but he doesn’t have to pay for benefits. I told him he can type by himself next time since he wants to be a clerk. Idiot. This is why these jobs are disappearing and it is not efficient.
All the more reason to for all of us to actively continue demanding that congress fund tier 5,6,7 and 8…whatever it takes…of unemployment benefits! The money is not all that is needed, but it will help fight off foreclosure for many Americans.
The MSM has forgotten about those of us who are perfectly employable, but see no upswing in sight.
I am an architect in the upper mid-west. In fact, I owned an Architecture firm for 17 years. As the housing bubble burst, developers stopped paying their bills, did not build the buildings, leaving nothing for us architects to put a lien on. I funded my company for two years, going from 25 employees to two, to finally folding the company. I did not pay myself for over a year, leaving only a few thousand dollars of income to base my own unemployment benefits upon. This came to about $1200 in monthly benefits, which is about one half of my mortgage, and about one quarter of my monthly expenses. BUT IS WAS SOMETHING!
Now my benefits have stopped.
There is no building in my state. The “shovel ready” construction did not help the Architects and Engineers, and our wing-nut Governor did not support even that.
I keep thinking, if the people who design the buildings are not working this year, (there is an estimated 60 – 70% unemployment in among architects in my state), THEN WHAT WILL THE CONSTRUCTION WORKERS BUILD NEXT YEAR?
If there is no construction next year, then what about the truckers, foresters, steel workers, manufacturers?
We will ALL loose our homes. This is happening now. Things have not improved. The MSM media just got tired of reporting it. Our congress just decided to side with the wing nuts and did not fund continued unemployment. I guess congress just thinks that professional leaders in our community would rather just loose their homes and live on the street that go out and get a job. Maybe they are right.
But isn’t the cost of living a lot less? And they don’t have overly big houses, apartments, cars, bullshit things that kill the planet and take massive amounts of fucking oil to make???
sorry if i seem a little hostile.
Another SUNY-NP story about how the little guy is getting shafted. There is construction on campus. The construction company hasn’t been paid by NYS since April 1, because there is no budget. Now in that particular case, the construction company is large enough, and they have another job to go to after they are done on campus (almost complete), so the company is continuing the work and continuing to pay the workers. But if it were a smaller corp, all those people would be out of work.
you make a good point, how far does $9000 a year go over there?
I designed device drivers and operating systems, among other things, for years. Many of my peers are unemployed, and have been for some time. It’s not just the tech-challenged who are struggling.
Automation in our lousy economy is eliminating jobs that outsourcing doesn’t (which, in results, is identical to the American worker to automation – jobs at home disappear). Politicians imagine magic vocations will open up and tens of millions of unemployed people will suddenly have jobs. It’s not happening. The opposite is true: we’re losing more jobs than we are creating, and have been doing so for years. Other segments of the economy aren’t absorbing workers.
In the 50′s and early 60′s, corporations touted the marvels of future automation and robotics. Why, robots would relieve man of drudgery! We’d never have to work again, for machines would do it all for us in the future! We were going to have fabulous amounts of leisure time! Automation would spawn a golden age!
What these con artists neglected to mention was, they had no intention of eliminating a monetary system requiring every able-bodied man and woman to work to eat. Without jobs, how is that possible?
We need to deal with this tiny little detail of our marvelous present to rectify that problem left to solve itself for more than half a century. Employment and automation don’t mix, especially in a recession!
Can we please change to a resource-based economy now?
That’s why Obummer is so negligent. We need a massive jobs program. We need to increase taxes on the rich. We need to cut defense spending. We need to regulate Wall Street (at least reinstitute Glass Steagall). This is a start. But it would save this country from certain ruin.
The Princeton-educated author of this article writes some contradictory statements. Rampell (the author) states that “The usual unemployment measures …. cannot make workers’ skills relevant again.” In the next paragraph, she writes, “Twice, the openings she interviewed for were eliminated by employers who decided, upon further reflection, that redistributing administrative tasks among existing employees made more sense than replacing the outgoing secretary.” So, which is it? Irrelevant skills or bloodsucking employers who continue to up the workload of their employees in order to improve their own personal economies?
Rampell also writes, “This ‘creative destruction’ in the job market can benefit the economy.” Whose economy – the economy of “creative class”, Ivy League educated twits like Rampell who have the moral compasses of amoebas? And doesn’t “creative destruction” imply that something is created to replace what is being destroyed? So what’s being created?
Rampell also cites “international trade” in addition to technological advancements as the reason for the “creative destruction”. So what happens to that international trade when people here can’t afford to buy things anymore because their jobs were exported? Will that “creative destruction” then spread to other countries as well?
BTW, it seems that the U.S. isn’t the only country where the people view the government as being on the side of the rich:
“The resentment by the country’s burgeoning middle-class over failing to get a share of the economic pie is now on par with the grudge held by many Chinese peasants, who feel cheated out of their land, banned from settling in the big cities and left out of the economic boom.”
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/LD23Cb01.html
In response to alan at 19…
if the distribution of wealth/income ranges from $0-20,000 per year in China, $9,000 is middle class.
Hi. You asked a few days ago for me to describe what I meant by a “centrist” third party. I wrote a response at Comments #49 and 51 on the thread following David Dayen’s May 8 post on Bob Bennett’s ouster in Utah. I’m not sure if you ever read it, but I would value your opinion and input, as I am usually impressed by your writings and thoughts. I’m trying to see whether people think it’s a viable concept.
BTW, NBC says 31% favor a third party, 83% think the two-party system is not working well. I think there is a tremendous opportunity presented.
He’s a troll.
Exactly. The construction company can continue to work on the state funded project because it is a reasonable risk that the state will eventually pay. It is a matter of how long can already stretched reserves last. Federal labor laws make it impossible to ask workers to forgo their pay check, so only the owners do not get paid. Eventually the risk becomes impossible. This is typical in a failing economy. The developers stop funding their projects, but do not tell the construction company and professional consultants. Then we are faced with how long to continue to work on the project in hopes of being paid. We are under contract to continue until a certain amount of time has passed. In the mean time the bills pile up. When we finally conclude that the project is going to remain unfunded, we are underwater to the tune of millions. The developers walk away, because we can not afford the attorney to sue them, and they are sheltered corporations anyway. It is too late. The workers loose their jobs, and hey, I loose my company, livelihood, home. Isn’t capitalism great? (Sorry, this has become off topic…but it explains how the economy has gotten into this hole).
Third parties take years to build. A more short-term approach is to continue to primary those Democrats who let us down. For the Presidential race of 2012, I would love to see a movement to draft Al Gore. The present disastrous situation may be enough to convince him that the country needs his leadership.
Perot’s third party was put together in no time, and there is more desire and need for one now. Did you see the new NBC poll?
I saw a picture of Rampell, she looks awfully young (and clueless), no offense to youthful readers.. These lost jobs are permanently gone because Wall Street (the Democrats) wants them to be. Decades ago we shifted from a manufacturing economy to a finance economy (Wall Street). You can not create real wealth in a finance economy, only by having factories, buildings, railroads, machines, tools, roads, ships, and $ savings -the factors of production satisfying basic needs- can a country generate real wealth. People around the country make jokes about the Midwest Rust Belt, but, they had better hope that Rust Belt starts functioning again otherwise all those joke-sters won’t be having the last laugh, they will (and are becoming) be poor just like the Midwest! Do you know why industry sprang up in the Midwest? It’s called water.
RBE…I’ve heard of this before.
I don’t happen to think that a national initiative system is beyond reach. For one thing we’ve historically shown a much greater capacity to amend the Constitution than to maintain viable 3rd parties and uncorrupted representation.
:-)
I read it, and to be honest, I’m still pondering what you wrote. While your suggestion is pragmatic, the last presidential election cycle suggests the public yearns for a populist. In these times, that’s not centrist.
The centrist, and party, you describe leans a bit to the left of center, as the center exists today. For such a candidate and party to survive, they’d need broad appeal on the left, as the right is in the midst of a purge right now, and your centrist wouldn’t stand a chance. As your centrist would avoid wedge issues, and the status quo is starkly right of center, many on the left would be dissatisfied with your candidate’s position (see: DADT).
We now live in a corporate-run state. Ergo, you can’t counter the establishment with establishment-lite. Because of all of the promises and compromises involved in campaigning, a compromising candidate would never ultimately satisfy the people. You need an unwavering populist. Obama ran as a populist, even as he sent signals he really wasn’t, so much. His administration panders to the right while placating the left. In a corporate state, he is a centrist.
Many of your tenets are workable, and I like your thinking, but I suspect the candidate from your successful third party must be a man of the people, with gusto.
Nobody gives a flying fuck about the unemployed in this country. If your over 55 and unemployed forget it your history. I’ve had employers laugh, yes laugh in my face when they saw me in person.
I am sorry that happened to you. Their cruelty does not reflect your real worth.
wtf does that mean?!?!?
I’m another one of the long term un/under-employed. I am a senior electronics tech w/38 years experience but my last full-time job went to India May 2008. I am 54 and it is obvious that I will not find another job in my field again ever – even if the electronics industry should someday return (Austin, TX) I will be too old, too obsolete. Personally I am very lucky as we have low expenses, no dependents & my wife has a very stable job that pays very good money so I do not have to work. But psychologically it is very tough, when they took my livelihood they also took my self-esteem and over these last two years it has gotten tougher & tougher to get out of bed, or at least to find a reason to…
Having watched the corporate party win every election since 1980 I find prospects for our future to be grim. Watching president Obama keep & reinforce GW’s violations of civil & constitutional rights has been especially disheartening. When I hear about Goldman-Sachs or Morgan-Stanley or BP et al, it is quite ironic to note that had they been caught with drugs, then & only then would they be in real trouble. Politics these days is like that gory wreck on the other side of the highway, there is nothing you can do that will have any effect and while you do not want to look, you cannot not look. Third party? Hardeharharhar.
Personally, I’d go for a little less hearing about it and a little more implementation. We can’t go on eviscerating our environment and devaluing our people without consequences. Paper money is as antique as a spinning wheel, and wages are obsolete in an era of automation.
Change will come. The present system is unsustainable. I’d love to see it happen sooner, rather than later. However, given our slothful track record of social progress, until things get excruciatingly painful for nearly everyone, later is when it shall be.
Gee, I’m a lawyer. I haven’t seen the ease of constitutional amendment that you reference. I’d be for the mechanism you describe, for anything really that would alter the status quo, but that seems to me to be a furhter stretch than a third party, at first blush. I’ll have to think about that. ;-)
I am encouraged by your remarks, because the problem seems to be only a miscommunication due to semanntics.
The label is the problem. I gotten similar reactions from many, so the problem lies with my choice of the label I used “centrist” because I think we now have rightwing-corporate to me is right-wing. But many have said corporate is centrist to them. So, my bad. I was trying to find a term that would mean more like” the consensus view of regular people.” I settled for centrist because I was focusing, perhaps overmuch, on the need to leave out the most divisive social issues on each side of the political spectrum.
“Populist” may well be a better label for whay I am trying to describe. A central tent of the party would be “people over corporatios,” so that fits well, I guess. The other issues are mostly about clean accountable govt, rule of law, pragmatism and competence in service of the people, so I think that is good because people are scared shitless and would like to know that grownups who are not ideological crazies are in charge.
So, with that re-definition in mind, do you think the concept is viable?
Welcome to the club.
Nothing quite like millions of people who ought to be nearing retirement thrown out of their jobs with no replacement income. It’s very frustrating, and it’s endemic.
It’s hard getting up, I’ll grant you. I’m helping a fellow who has tried to get a data center start-up off the ground for about 10 years. It hasn’t paid, but perhaps it will soon. The plus side of it is it’s forcing me to stay current with my skills, gives me something creative to do (I’m also a musician, but who can afford the gas and gear to gig??? That sort of implies you have a vehicle, and mine was repo’d by Toyota!), and keeps me somewhat sane.
If only I’d listened to Willie back then…
Man (or woman) of the people, with gusto.” Bingo, just what I had in mind.
Not one of the usual suspects.
Why to laugh? Would you rather vote again for a Dem or Rethug? They’re both corporate handmaidens.
Hey Darms, I can not help thinking that for every one of us who tells our story here, there are a thousand reading and not writing, and million that have not found their way to this very inspiring blog.
We need WPA type jobs program, nationwide! We have to find a way to inspire our representatives to care about us enough to create these programs. The Great Depression is here, now. I wonder how long it took the political leaders from the 1920′s to realize they had to do something. Is there someone reading that knows their history well enough to answer this? I am guessing it took more than two years, a decade I think. We really need to organize to push for this. It needs to be a grass roots movement. None of the politicians are hurting enough to do the organizing for us. Problems are fixed by those who see them.
darms, I believe you can do other related jobs. You just need the economy to offer them. I will design beautiful public buildings again someday. In the mean time, I need to survive. I work as a gardener for $900 a month right now. It will not allow me to keep my home, but it does get me out of bed in the morning.
Are their FDL pups out there that will push for a significant jobs program? I think this would be a very positive step towards social change.
And while we’re at it, here’s change.org’s petition to extend unemployment benefits for those who are about to lose them:
http://www.change.org/petitions/view/the_99ers_need_a_tier_v_added_to_unemployment_benefits
I have a friend in Mumbai. On $8000 a year he owns 2 homes, one a house, one a condo. He has no problems making ends meet. If you can’t swing that, there are rentals available for a tiny fraction of what rentals cost here. You can’t rent someone’s garage in Los Angeles for what a modest apartment would run in India.
For some companies, an Indian worker is far too expensive. Think about it.
Amen
Here’s a description of a symptom:
In 1962 President Kennedy challenged us (USA citizens and a few German Scientists) to Place a Man on the Moon before the end of the decade, 7 years. We did that in 1969. The engineers and designers by and large used Slide Rules for their computational efforts envisioning, designing, building, testing and proving technologies that hadn’t existed prior to that time. The entire Space Industry needed to be created, from scratch.
7 years to design from scratch everything to allow Man to walk on the moon.
40 years later our current President has redirected, re-envisioned NASA’s direction.
Our new challenge as a nation?
15 years to reach a meteor, using technology that has already been designed, tested and proven. It’s simply the vehicles and specific equipment that will be designed. The technology exists.
And each Engineer and Scientist now has multiple, incredibly powerful Personal Computers along with access to a multitude of Super Computers.
I am not inspired nor challenged. I am of such little faith today. (and I’m also an unemployed embedded systems designer that had significant positive contributions on Voyager I & II and the Shuttle.)
After the retirement of the three remaining flying shuttles, NASA will be contracting or privatizing the delivery of our Astronauts to the Russians. Bloody Hell. (@ $50 Million per Seat – now that’s a ticket)
Neil Armstrong thinks very little of the current direction of NASA. He said the Obama plan was “contrived by a very small group in secret” Well what can I say, ya gotta go with what works for ya. Thanks O.
We need a WPA style program at NASA for gosh darn sakes.
I’ll give you a twist on that. Due to the availability of H1-B’s along with the lower wages that non-citizen tech types demand , folks like me have to be willing to accept a 50% to 60% reduction in wages (or more) or not work.
Also, related specifically to the content of this article: Reevaluating Unemployment: Is Progress Destabilizing our Economy?
The configuration of the system is such that the stability of our macroeconomy is in constant competition with the advancement of our microeconomies. We’re not fundamentally addressing that contradiction in any way. So far the “solutions” have been mixes of papering over the contradiction and having just enough dumb luck in the timely emergence of new markets.
I went to a lecture with Jagdish Bhagwati on this subject. It was really frustrating to hear him cite a study that was grossly flawed, because it appeared to measure displacement, but did little to deal with the 11% pay cut that a person working in an actively offshored field has to take each time they’re required to find a new job. He also discounts the severe amount of downward wage pressure that has already occurred.
You can read Diana Farrell’s specious commentary here: U.S. Offshoring: Small Steps to Make it Win-win
Keep in mind that she’s citing the same study that Bhagwati was in his lecture, and that the company that produced the study was run by Farrell at the time, and further that Farrell now works in the Obama Administration.
The typical line from offshoring proponents is that technological shocks are much worse for labor, which is true, but that doesn’t make offshoring not-destructive reflexively, especially when labor mobility is restricted. It’s also hard not to take that as a de facto argument against modernization. Sadly, I did not get to asking him about that as the line to the mic was dominated by people who knew exactly fuckall about labor, tech, and macroeconomics, and were instead asking questions about whatever dumb shit they read in the paper that day related to China. But such is the case with basically every public/pseudo-public lecture.
thanks for posting the link
http://www.change.org/petitions/view/the_99ers_need_a_tier_v_added_to_unemployment_benefits
The change.org petition creator needs help – looking for someone in DC who can deliver her petition signatures to Congress – anyone in DC??
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/13/unemployment-petition-signatures_n_574887.html
I have called the Senate to complain about Baucus and his nasty comments – we need a major campaign to get attention to loss of Unemployment Benefits!!
Thanks FDLers for bring attention to this!
Interesting post and even more interesting comments. My spouse is of a certain age with multiple higher ed degrees and loads of experience and presently cobbling together “work” via three pt jobs (and feels lucky!! to have those opportunities). We are mostly making it bc right now I have a reasonably stable, well-paying job with benefits (plus a pt job on the side). Plus we live frugally and saved like crazy for many years (mostly in “safe” investments), plus no kids. But my day job is moving into ever more shaky ground as the economy continues to decline (despite what’s happening on Wall St) and everyone’s fighting over the small amount of crumbs left.
Often the rightwing shines a big spotlight on undocumented workers in our nation as if they are the root of all evil and the downfall of all middle and higher wage earners. It’s clear that, while there are issues with immigration, undocumented workers in the USA aren’t the “problem.” The problem is with the ongoing shift of jobs either to new technologies and/or to other countries. The H1-B visas are also more of an issue than some undocumented worker picking strawberries.
It’s these other issues that have contributed hugely to the job loss experienced here, which I fear will only get worse, not better. Right now Republicans are gleefully and joyfully celebrating the ongoing loss of many public sector jobs at the federal, state and local level, thinking that this represents are huge bonus for them. Maybe it does; I don’t know. But as horrid as it is for those govt workers who lost jobs, it’s not great for those still in jobs. I see far too many govt depts waaaay over burdened trying to have less than half their work force do the same amount of work. The workloads have become staggering in some cases causing a number of problems across the board, not the least of which is that it takes much longer for govt entities to pay their bills… hence affecting private sector business in their pocketbooks when they can least afford it.
The whole thing is just so stupid on so many levels that I can’t hardly bear to think about it anymore. Where we end up is anyone’s guess. But despite the staggerly huge problems I see currently, I think our citizens are still too complacent and distracted to really rise up and do anything useful to really solve the problems. And the pols inside the Beltway? Well, they got theirs; eff the rest of us – THAT’s as clear as day.
OT – sort of.
Unemployed Single Dad with three children in the home. Spent half a years wages on legal fees (even tho Mom signed them away – substance abuse issues) but we don’t receive any child support.
County Attorney’s Office made the determination that our Child Support Order is ‘Unenforceable’ as written by the Child Support Magistrate. Why? Because I’m a Dad, or was it a mistake or intent? I did check with the State AG’s office. Child Support Magistrates are required to have a Law Degree, to be educated and knowledgeable.
I just don’t know nor understand. What I do know is that I’m out of money for legal fees and my children only have one unemployed parent caring for and supporting them. (yeah – we’re packing today. Couldn’t keep the house)
And you’re an EE, no?
I worked for a company for 7 1/2 years off and on. More on than off, thankfully. Once they laid me off in favor of an H1-B worker. My last week there he began complaining it was impossible to do what they asked him to do, and asked me how to do his job (what was currently my job). This was right when Bush decided to go to war and the company experienced its first losses, ever, as the retail sector quit buying infrastructure.
A year later, they fired him and hired me back to essentially do what they’d asked him to do. I was fortunate that he was inept. I got to work for 1/2 my pay! With a year’s worth of bills! And no house, ’cause I lost it in the interim! Whoopee!!!!
Not everyone can design functional embedded software, apparently. Had he been better qualified (read: had the company’s management not imagined they knew how to hire qualified people, their lack of said skill being the reason why they used recruiters in the first place…), I surely would not have been hired back. They wanted the cheapest labor they could find after that, outsourcing their BIOS to some fine and inexpensive, albeit somewhat slow to respond (perhaps spending days decoding the engineering team’s inevitably obfuscating jargon?), Polish lads, regardless of the fact that I rewrote one computer manufacturer’s BIOS for use in their consumer products ***fixing a number of amazing, long-term bugs in the process***.
But, you can’t beat paying someone $8000 a year, by golly. Unless you can get away with paying them less.
No fan of the H1-B, myself.
Why do I keep hearing the Green Acres theme in my head?
The more I think about the economy, the more I’m in need of a shower. It’s dirty dealing, and it’s absolutely unsustainable.
I have been out of work for over a year. My unemployment stopped last month so I am six weeks now without a job. The bill collectors start calling at 8:30 in the morning and go all day till 9 at night.
A couple of weeks ago, I had an emotional crash, I was laying on my floor crying, wondering if any one listens to our pain. So I sent an open letter to my Senators, Feinstein and Boxer on my blog at the San Francisco Chronicle. Then I started getting the letter out to every person I could get access to, including Hilda Solis at Labor, Senator Tom Udall, asking for them to DO SOMETHING to get us an extension. At that time, I had $7.
A few friends and family have offered help. My spouse is paying all my bills. I apply for jobs all the time.
But two things, I am 55 years old and I am in the group that doesn’t get a second glance. Somehow, even though we are unemployed in massive numbers, the administration and the rest of the government overlooks us. I cannot go work on a highway project. Updating my skills is not going to make me qualified for roads projects. I have loads of skills, I am updated but there are no jobs! It is not rocket science.
Second thing, we are missing the mark, I think with our political efforts. I propose that we start faxing in pictures of ourselves to all the congressional offices and the White House. We are not numbers, we are out of work, struggling and want you to act like this is an emergency because it is! Everyone send a picture to your reps, let them know you are here and you want them to do their jobs and help out here!
Extend the benefits, create some jobs now! We have been doing the right things all along, keeping the economy going, contributing to our communities, Time for you to see our faces, we’re not numbers, we are people!
Yes, an old EE/CS with significant RF background along with Project Management and Systems Engineering. note the emphasis on old. I don’t have the MS or the MBA or the PHD. (but did design the 2nd generation large form factor optical recording platforms that IRS, CIA and NSA use for permanent archiving)
Our productivity is not what everyone thinks Nathan, in some areas of engineering it’s actually quite a joke.
Here’s a typical HR produced hiring sheet example for a Senior Level R&D Engineer:
BS with 12+ years
MS with 5/7 years
PHD with 0/1 years
Does anyone (other than someone with a PHD in HR) actually believe that the kid with the PHD is capable of the same work product as that of a BS with 15 or 20 years experience?
Keep in mind that education lags technology anywhere from 1 to 5 years. (in R&D fields) My last large scale project had 50 engineers (vast majority were H1-B’s). 35 were PHD’s or candidates, 17 had their MS or MBA and two of us were BS (with gray hair).
At the end of the project, the last two standing, still on contract were the two BS gray haired dudes. The others couldn’t and didn’t cut it. Those last two spent six months cleaning up the mistakes and messes caused by some of the others (including the PHD’s). But US Corps continue to hire with this model.
The US now has a destructive HR hiring system that places an emphasis on advanced degrees at the disadvantage of proven experience, to the disadvantage of those that have already proven their worth.
There are many of us in this boat. So many of the senior people move off into other fields or start an unrelated business.
A previous firm I was with did implanted Bio-Med. One of their new hot recruits didn’t care for all the regs that FDA required. Figured he could beat the system. Didn’t work out so well (not my project). He got caught. FDA invalidated all his direct and any related work product. About five years worth of R&D effort. Made them start all over again.
Last year that company had to shutdown the manufacturing and sales of half of it’s product line for nine months. It had been an $18B annual operation. Hard to say if they learned anything, I witnessed the same behavior in the late 70′s at the same place (but with different players0.
Thanks for the kind words. Unfortunately at 54 life doesn’t have as many opportunities as it once had for me. For example I can no longer stand the heat so that means no outside work at all plus I’m very burned out on John Q. Public meaning no customer service work either. Hell, due to my deteriorating vision & motor skills and of course the microscopic size of electronic components these days, even doing tech work is tough. If there is a place in this new economy for me I do not see it.
You’re not going to get any argument from me on this.
Except for a minor quibble that even the advanced degrees tend to get you exactly nothing as well. The number of people I know in their early 30′s with MA’s and MS’s who are waiting tables, serving coffee, and bar-tending is depressing in its own right, and it’s obviously putting downward pressure on career advancement generally, because there’s no ladder left for people to climb.
What part of the country are you in? For someone in your situation you’re probably going to be best served by working with smaller companies, because they lack the formalized, ridiculous HR barriers of entry for people with boatloads of experience.
I have two consumer product ideas that I’ve been wanting to create that would require someone with your specific skills. Especially the RF part. Ever do any Bluetooth related work?
A WPA program would work on so many levels that a decision to git ‘er done literally is a no-brainer.
1. Fixing and building new infrastructure needs to be done anyway because everything is falling apart.
2. Now is a perfect time to start because summer is approaching and we have 15.6 million unemployed people ready, willing, and able to go to work. The program should have started at least a year ago, actually, but that’s water under the bridge and there is no reason to delay any longer.
3. Workers will spend most of the money they make, at first, putting out financial fires, so most of the money goes into the economy and stimulates increased production. That results in more hires. Plus, it creates real wealth because everything fixed starts looking better and we get rapid transit rail systems! We also get refurbished and cleaned up parks and beaches, bridges that don’t collapse, and safe roads to drive on. Think also of the possibilities to go green and wean ourselves off fossil fuels.
4. The wages paid to WPA workers keep circulating around the economy and get spent over and over generating receipts to states from sales taxes and taxable federal and state income to people and businesses with each transaction. Over time the money the government paid out in wages comes back many times over as tax receipts helping to reduce rather than increase deficits.
Nevertheless, I don’t believe there’s a chance in hell that Obama will do it because I think he’s determined to finish off the middle class and safety net once and for all with more unemployment and privation with the Shock Doctrine, all the while genuflecting to free market capitalism and the god of predation, Milton Friedman.
My response today to all this jobs hullaballoo:
http://roadblues-kitty.blogspot.com/2010/05/that-there-is-atlantic-city-skyline-on.html
croque oh sheet for US workers
BTW, I’m a 62-year-old law professor at the top of my game, unemployed since June 2008, when I was fired for blowing the whistle. I can’t even get an interview.
The original comment about China doing somethng ‘big’ and doing it well is an apt one.
The reply from alan is insane in that he attempts to compare China and USA economies and wages.
Ridiculous.
Apples and oranges.
If Rhobama decided to do FDR scale WPA jobs creation, it would all be based on US standards, including wages.
As it was done in the 30′s.
You SHOULD be a lil hostile, the reply was pure idiocy.
Unemloyed and under employed folks (for 5 years or so in CA) are everywhere. We are desperate for work, any work. I’ll work for HALF of what I was making in ’03, just to pay bills. As an admin, as a receptionist.
Up till RECENTLY (past 30 days) there WERE no jobs, not even from temp agencies (who could and still do cherrypick those with the most recent job time). Thinks are looking a bit better in town here from prelim calls I’ve been making.
And, the temp agencies now have bit of problem that ENHANCES my stature-EVERYONE has recent or past employment gaps! For low level jobs, my age, maturity and skill sets (no kids, no family, just a wife and bills to pay) set me apart from younger folks with less ‘dedicated’ tendencies based on boy or girlfriends, party life, schooling, social distractions, etc.
And yes, I work every angle I can in an interview . . . ‘you get someone who will show up for work every day and ontime, and give more when you need it.’
Powerful message at times, even to a younger interviewer whom one would think might be offended. But consider, these interviewers are looking to either PLACE me on a job, or have tried to hire for a job and seen others fail . . . *G* So they don’t mind the spin, cuz it’s proven truth.
Now I’m gonna go run errands on a beautiful day and try not to be any more hostile than I already have been.
Best to you and hubby and critters! *G* (I’m still thinking about how to work the music industry for you . . . designing websites, etc.) Hope to email you with thoughts this weekend sometime.
Yep, still.
What State, and what field of expertise?
Bluetooth is simply a protocol implemented via chips now. I am familiar with the layers and the current breed of chips. I didn’t have direct experience with the 8080, Z80, 8085, 8086, 8088, v35, Freescales etc, etc until I sat down with requirements in hand and created a design. (we used the 4004 in the AF)
I’m in Minnesota, at one time one of the centers of embedded control systems but it’s waining rapidly. My resume includes a few ground floor startups that grew rapidly along with mega-corps. Five years ago I returned to an organization after being away 25 years. I had previously been employee # 178, upon return # 14328. Amazing growth.
At the conclusion of the contract I received references at every level of the R&D group up to Sr VP R&D (he had 8000 employees world wide). The HR rep stated that she had never seen such a stack of recommendations to hire but then went on to say corporate would have a problem, I lacked the requirements of an advanced degree that the position I was to be offered had. Jeebus. We attempted for 12 months to get me on-board with waivers. I finally took a position with somewhere else.
In the Air Force we had a term for that, ‘Eat up by the dumb shit’
Do you have a way I can reach you off-site?
justaguyinmnatyahoo
Not only is the US government not providing new jobs, except to expand existing agencies or staff new ones, they are outsourcing work that could easily be done in the US. One recent example is the US Census Bureau purchasing all their gear to promote the 2010 census to other countries.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/04/13/Census-gear-is-outsourced/UPI-95591271173096/
Gerald Celente, publisher of Trends Journal, is forecasting a strong third party movement in 2012 he describes as progressive libertarians.
I disagree with that woman about the handicapped; I’m deaf, and I can tell you both from personal and anecdotal experience that we are largely unemployed and underemployed. Yes, in theory we have programs and “assistance” through affirmative action, preferential hiring, etc., etc., but those measures don’t work in reality. In fact, we’re often the first fired and the last hired.
The problems with starting a third party that I see:
Most people are willing to entertain the notion of one, but there’s no political will to do the hard work and heavy lifting required to start one. If it does happen, I think it would be best to start in and concentrate on one or two states and build up a strong organization, then use it to change things on the local and state level, thus increasing leverage to influence national affairs.
Second, how do you prevent some self-centered, power-hungry individuals from co-opting and corrupting such a party?
Finally, given the slow erosion of our society and collapse into a closed society, I’m not sure we have the luxury of building a party; as someone else said, developing a viable third party takes time, which means years. I’m not certain we have those years, the way our increasingly authoritarian politicians are changing the rules as quickly as they can.
Given the tension between the two parts of that label, I would say it approximates the feel of what I’m trying to get at. Perhaps “populist” may also be better than “centrist.’ Many seem to take “centrist” as meaning staus quo, which now is corporate, but I don’t mean that at all. My concept is an openly anti-corporate, pro-regular people orientation.
All sound concerns. But, balanced against that, is the clear and urgent NEED for a third party option. I have no expertise in the nuts-and-bolts aspects of poltical organization, but rather in the concept area, and the concept seems very compelling to me right now. I concede it would require a tidal wave of public support, which in turn would require a compelling and credible leader. Elizabeth Warren has been suggested–I love her. I originally thought Jane would be a great choice, but she is solidly committed to the inside game she has been playing.
Oh, I agree a strong, viable third party would be welcome. I too think it will require both public support AND a compelling, credible leader as you put it.
I think both you and Jane are right– the Democrats and Republicans are, as others have put it, two wings of the same party and a third (or rather, new second) party would serve as the best counterbalance. However, given the scarcity of time as I noted, trying to hollow out and take down the house of cards called the Democratic Party from within (and then rebuilding), as Jane is doing, is a calculated gamble that would probably be crazy not to take.
Anyway, now you know one reason why I’m rarely here– by the time I can get to a computer and catch up on things, half the country is getting ready for bed, and most of the posts have petered out or quickly approaching EPU territory. Thus part of the reason I lurk. *smile*