Northwestern University Political scientists Benjamin Page and Lawrence Jacobs have written a paper arguing that the deliberative forums put together this week by America Speaks were “unreliable” measures of public opinion, and that the public has already made itself clear on these matters, opposing benefit cuts to Social Security and preferring lifting the cap on payroll taxes to strengthen its finances.
George Washington University political scientist John Sides from The Monkey Cage summarizes the results of the paper. In addition to the demographic difficulties of finding a true random sample based on people who decide affirmatively to show up to a day-long meeting, there is the problem, which I noted in my report on the America Speaks event in LA, of biased presentation:
A second problem is that the value of deliberative forums depends entirely on the quality of the information presented. One specific concern, among others: if the information accentuates a particular problem, respondents may be more likely to see it as important. At the America Speaks forums, the emphasis — unsurprisingly, given the Peterson Foundation’s mission — is the deficit. Page and Jacobs write:
“A focus on the “challenge” of deficit reduction (repeatedly emphasized in the America Speaks briefing book), if it temporarily distracts forum participants from other important concerns, could lead them to say they would tolerate cuts in Social Security benefits that most Americans – even the forum participants themselves – would strongly oppose if asked about them in the normal way at home or at work.”
Page and Jacobs also argue that a large amount of evidence from public opinion surveys suggests, well, that the public doesn’t necessarily agree with the Peterson Foundation:
“The bottom line is that many Americans express concern about budget deficits, but many more see other issues (especially jobs and economic growth) as the top priority. Most Americans do not favor cutting popular programs like Social Security (or education or health care) in order to reduce budget deficits. Support for Social Security is strong and widespread across the population, including among young people. Many more Americans want to increase spending on Social Security than want to decrease it, and that has been true for decades. Virtually any sort of benefit cut is opposed by substantial majorities of Americans.”
These findings actually held in the America Speaks results, and I think part of this is due to a higher proportion of liberals actually coming out to the meetings. However, the options for deficit reduction – and the foregrounding of deficit reduction over economic growth – narrowed the range of results. In one meeting in Portland, participants demanded to be allowed a vote on single-payer health care as a deficit reduction strategy, for example. But that wasn’t on the menu.
Andrew Gelman, a political scientist from Columbia University, concurred with his colleagues that the forums were “a pretty useless way to assess public opinion,” and focused on the role of the presentation materials as well, and the Peterson Foundation which funded them:
As Page and Jacobs note, it’s not just that Peter Peterson is a fiscally conservative Republican, it’s that his foundation is specifically focused on deficit reduction, which in turn is the topic of their study.
The right way to theink about the America Speaks forum, I think, is not as an attempt to measure public opinion but rather as an attempt to influence public opinion. As Jacobs and Shapiro write in Politicians Don’t Pander, political actors often view public opinion not as a fixed constraint but instead as a tool that they can use to influence policy.
Gelman said that the event had three goals: securing publicity for the notion of cutting spending as a deficit reduction maneuver; testing political messages in a large-group setting, as research for future public ads; and using the results (which America Speaks “balanced” in its press release as encompassing spending cuts as well, even though those options were far less supported than the more progressive measures which came in first) to influence elite opinion. Public opinion, in the latter case, becomes a means to an end.
The paper from Page and Jacobs is quite interesting, if you’re interested in this topic it’s worth reading. America Speaks created an artificial “fish bowl” of faux-public opinion, narrowed the range of options, and then touted the results as more “deliberative” than a poll. This is flawed political science, and it’s good to see that community recognize it.



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Were the materials unreliable – probably.
Were the materials designed to lead participants to a certain set of perscriptions – after some reflection, i think so.
Were the recommendations the group came to completely reflective of american opinion – hard to say. its difficult to know who to believe these days when it comes to polling. wouldnt you agree?
Were the recommendations at least somewhat reflective of opinion – I like to think so.
Did it work out like you suggest they hoped and lead to a set of right wing recommendations to destroy Social Security – HELL NO. (as you admit)
I have a suggestion for you David – create your own materials, or support materials created by a sufficiently objective organization.
Until you do that, and until you organize a town hall similar to this event that meets your requirements I suggest you listen to those of us that were there and at least open your mind to the possiblity that decent things can come out of even a right wing set up. (unbelievable, i know)
The purpose of AmericaSpeaks (in my personal opinion as someone who was there and who is not a total left wing policy supporter, and certainly not a right wing policy supporter) was to engage americans in civil conversation. you seem to be missing this point.
Your continued posts trying to negate everything that happened on Saturday is absolutely counter productive to encouraging civil conversation. something which in case you havent noticed has been very absent lately.
Let me tell you again – these forums were NOT deliberative as you continue to suggest. a wide variety of americans turned out – not all wearing tea bag hats. was this what peterson foundation hoped for? i assume you would say no. but what about the WK kellog foundation and the John D. & Catherine T. MacArthur Foundations? the other 2 supporters that your have conveniently neglected to mention every time you mention peterson. la raza also gave input. why would these groups put their name on this thing? why would peterson PAY left wing activists to reach out to minorities and left leaning groups? WHY? i personally know 2 very left leaning organizers that were PAID to bring out the left on saturday. how exactly does this fit into your mythology of this event?
any forum set up by anyone will have inherent bias – heard of congress?
i am anxiously awaiting the first firedoglake national town hall on how to tackle ANY important issue. i will be the first to sign up. you better just make damn sure that the materials and numbers you present are acceptable by everyone in america – left, right and center.
good luck with that.
Is there a page or article about how many people did turn out, and where?
I’d have loved to attend one, but the nearest was a five-hour drive away. Not happening, in my case.
Not to mention that FDL is the only place I even heard of these – there was certainly no info on local news, or, AFAIK, in area local newspapers.
I’d have to figure 90% or more of ordinary Americans never heard a word about these meetings. How can they be any good at all? As for ericharman77, I haven’t seen a word about results anywhere. Which is why I’m asking.
Oh, and FDL IS inherently a “town meeting” tackling important issues.
Has anyone pointed out how odd it is that ALL 19 meetings across the country came up with EXACTLY the same list of “proposals?” Doesn’t that strike anyone as very coincidental, or at least very top-down? How did that happen?
Ah, erich “I’m a liberal leaning Portlander” arman, nice to see you!
You’re assuming that they don’t already have these recommendations; you’re also assuming they are right-wing. And you’re assuming these forums/town halls/presentation events were supposed to create recommendations.
First, you can bet Pete Peterson and his peeps already know what they want; these events are only to provide the illusion of participation and buy-in.
Second, this is not a left-right issue; it’s corporatists versus participatory democracy.
Third, Peterson et al have been at this a very long time, just as the Heritage Foundation had prepared a health care plan more than a decade ago. Like the Heritage Foundation, Peterson et al are hoping the country has moved toward their thinking enough to pass austerity plans in lieu of national investment to realize corporatists’ expectations — just as the Heritage Foundation got its health care plan passed earlier this year.
OT: Mod, the ads are obscuring the next post down – something about unions and grit tv. Can the formatting be changed so the ads don’t overrun the posts? Thanks.
Now that there’s a new post up top, the ads are obscuring THIS post. Looks like it might be that the ads are obscuring the second post down.
use Firefox with the noscript addon and kill popups – problem goes away.
It happened because each meeting was equipped with electronic devices that allowed participants to all vote on the same proposals at the same time.
Right, and as the political scientists in this post acknowledge, the forum was a nice way to message-test, to see what messages worked and what didn’t, to tweak for the next assault.
Thanks for the LOL
Pete is running “townhalls” that before the given Townhall have the conclusions of that Townhall already printed up – I rather like the right wing efficiency! :-)
As for WK Kellog foundation and the John D. & Catherine T. MacArthur Foundations – I have not dealt with Kellog, but MacArthur is rather rightwing despite the support it does give to some things on the left (on the left???? like PBS/NPR).
As for materials being “left” or “right” – just having truth would make be happy – but truth tends to the thing that makes one left wing if you make the “mistake” of learning the truth.
I did like your rant! I love political passion! Welcome to the FDL “townhall” :-)
edit, David linked it already…
I don’t think that David has a billion dollars to spend on your suggestion as Mr. Peterson did.
David Dayen is upstairs!
Obama Catered to Scott Brown on FinReg, Now Brown Opposes the Bill
Kellogg and MacArthur are well known veal pen orgs, so, you pretty much got that one all wrong.
David, and the paper he refers to, pretty much nail it all down for me.
Your rebuttal, it rings right up there with THIS GUY!
And I consider him not much more than a paid shill for someone. He’s as much of a liberal as any other veal penner.
Nicely done, thanks!
Great post, once again David, thanks for all you do!
It’s nice to have a place to read the truths about the distorted and fabricated realities the Pererson’s of the world seek to create.