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	<title>Comments on: Exposed to Facts, the Misinformed Believe Lies More Strongly</title>
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	<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/07/12/exposed-to-facts-the-misinformed-believe-lies-more-strongly/</link>
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		<title>By: paxton</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/07/12/exposed-to-facts-the-misinformed-believe-lies-more-strongly/#comment-42606</link>
		<dc:creator>paxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 08:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=9522#comment-42606</guid>
		<description>Slow news day, study from 2005-2006 resurfaces.Alternative conjecture, if raised under ignorance, facts exposed in later life have little to no effect. This study doesn&#039;t diminish the value of an informed population, because we have no evidence of an informed population in the first place. The  author of the Boston.com article doesn&#039;t even approach the idea we have an informed population, though all the while spouting quotes of the importance of one. Additionally, the newly coined &#039;backfire&#039; term appears to have already existed as the term, denial, or rationalizing. Does the funding for this work depend on the conjuring of new phenomena? Are the authors expected to produce breakthroughs to justify their paychecks? Backfire seems like more pseudo-intellectual blather along the lines of &#039;meme&#039;, &#039;framing&#039;, and &#039;narratives&#039;. Just a means of taking old data and repackaging it to garner scientific/research cred. As to questions regarding how to counter the effect, the article said it plainly, blunt honesty, not 
&#039;narratives&#039; or &#039;framing&#039; were successful. &quot;Kuklinski’s welfare study suggested that people will actually update their beliefs if you hit them “between the eyes” with bluntly presented, objective facts that contradict their preconceived ideas.&quot;
The average person recoils at &#039;framing&#039;. It appears contrived because it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slow news day, study from 2005-2006 resurfaces.Alternative conjecture, if raised under ignorance, facts exposed in later life have little to no effect. This study doesn&#8217;t diminish the value of an informed population, because we have no evidence of an informed population in the first place. The  author of the Boston.com article doesn&#8217;t even approach the idea we have an informed population, though all the while spouting quotes of the importance of one. Additionally, the newly coined &#8216;backfire&#8217; term appears to have already existed as the term, denial, or rationalizing. Does the funding for this work depend on the conjuring of new phenomena? Are the authors expected to produce breakthroughs to justify their paychecks? Backfire seems like more pseudo-intellectual blather along the lines of &#8216;meme&#8217;, &#8216;framing&#8217;, and &#8216;narratives&#8217;. Just a means of taking old data and repackaging it to garner scientific/research cred. As to questions regarding how to counter the effect, the article said it plainly, blunt honesty, not<br />
&#8216;narratives&#8217; or &#8216;framing&#8217; were successful. &#8220;Kuklinski’s welfare study suggested that people will actually update their beliefs if you hit them “between the eyes” with bluntly presented, objective facts that contradict their preconceived ideas.&#8221;<br />
The average person recoils at &#8216;framing&#8217;. It appears contrived because it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Romberry</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/07/12/exposed-to-facts-the-misinformed-believe-lies-more-strongly/#comment-42573</link>
		<dc:creator>Romberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 21:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=9522#comment-42573</guid>
		<description>I tried to be as clear as I could be in my post. I tried to tell a story...about the need for telling stories. Lies are mentioned nowhere. Narratives (which serve to make dry facts relevant) and repetition of those narratives are. I can only suggest that you read my earlier post again. At least some others seem to have gotten my point and I hope that after thinking about it, you will too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tried to be as clear as I could be in my post. I tried to tell a story&#8230;about the need for telling stories. Lies are mentioned nowhere. Narratives (which serve to make dry facts relevant) and repetition of those narratives are. I can only suggest that you read my earlier post again. At least some others seem to have gotten my point and I hope that after thinking about it, you will too.</p>
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		<title>By: rudyruddell</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/07/12/exposed-to-facts-the-misinformed-believe-lies-more-strongly/#comment-42552</link>
		<dc:creator>rudyruddell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 19:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=9522#comment-42552</guid>
		<description>This phenomenon goes a long way to explain what Darryl Ray decscribes in his book: The God Virus. The God Virus screens out threatening facts. If an infected person feels very strongly about his/her beliefs, then the facts are rejected more strongly. This Michigan study helps to scientifically explain Ray&#039;s conceptual model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This phenomenon goes a long way to explain what Darryl Ray decscribes in his book: The God Virus. The God Virus screens out threatening facts. If an infected person feels very strongly about his/her beliefs, then the facts are rejected more strongly. This Michigan study helps to scientifically explain Ray&#8217;s conceptual model.</p>
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		<title>By: sharonsj</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/07/12/exposed-to-facts-the-misinformed-believe-lies-more-strongly/#comment-42519</link>
		<dc:creator>sharonsj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=9522#comment-42519</guid>
		<description>This is insane.  You can&#039;t change people&#039;s minds with the facts?  Then how should we do it, with lies?

Sorry, but the problem is that the news media doesn&#039;t give us the facts.  Even C-Span allows people to say whatever they damn please without correction.  And the other posters are right: there is no punishment for lying...and we are on the road to Hell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is insane.  You can&#8217;t change people&#8217;s minds with the facts?  Then how should we do it, with lies?</p>
<p>Sorry, but the problem is that the news media doesn&#8217;t give us the facts.  Even C-Span allows people to say whatever they damn please without correction.  And the other posters are right: there is no punishment for lying&#8230;and we are on the road to Hell.</p>
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		<title>By: boston33</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/07/12/exposed-to-facts-the-misinformed-believe-lies-more-strongly/#comment-42514</link>
		<dc:creator>boston33</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=9522#comment-42514</guid>
		<description>I wonder if the University of Michigan could do a study of how Research 2000 polling affected the Arkansas senate race? How many lemmings out there thought Halter really had a chance? Then were in disbelief when Lincoln won the race?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if the University of Michigan could do a study of how Research 2000 polling affected the Arkansas senate race? How many lemmings out there thought Halter really had a chance? Then were in disbelief when Lincoln won the race?</p>
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		<title>By: captjjyossarian</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/07/12/exposed-to-facts-the-misinformed-believe-lies-more-strongly/#comment-42513</link>
		<dc:creator>captjjyossarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 09:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=9522#comment-42513</guid>
		<description>Well it&#039;s not like Bush&#039;s Republicans won a landslide in 2006 after it was clear that there were no WMD in Iraq.  The public pretty much gave them the boot.  And they did the same in 2008.

And now they are understandably growing unhappy with Obama and the Dems.  

I think enough of the public gets the fact that our current policy course is the road to hell.  There&#039;s just no concensus on what to do about it.  Voting in another batch of R&#039;s and D&#039;s seems unlikely to change anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well it&#8217;s not like Bush&#8217;s Republicans won a landslide in 2006 after it was clear that there were no WMD in Iraq.  The public pretty much gave them the boot.  And they did the same in 2008.</p>
<p>And now they are understandably growing unhappy with Obama and the Dems.  </p>
<p>I think enough of the public gets the fact that our current policy course is the road to hell.  There&#8217;s just no concensus on what to do about it.  Voting in another batch of R&#8217;s and D&#8217;s seems unlikely to change anything.</p>
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		<title>By: wphurley</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/07/12/exposed-to-facts-the-misinformed-believe-lies-more-strongly/#comment-42512</link>
		<dc:creator>wphurley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 09:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=9522#comment-42512</guid>
		<description>News, yes.  New news, not even close.

Corporations, particularly HR departments and &quot;placement agencies&quot; feeding &quot;heads&quot; to the mill, have long been familiar with the psychological principals described in U-MI&#039;s research.  One reason &quot;businesses&quot; prefer to hire younger applicants rather than the seasoned is directly attributable to the disruption and cost of (re)training an experienced new hire who has a dissonant reaction to new, factually different information.

The principle also shades the means by which customer-facing marketing programs are structured.  Did you think it was solely a lack of creativity and insight that makes most marketing so repetitive and - in today&#039;s parlance - narrowly brand-driven?  Once a customer is &quot;educated&quot;, it&#039;s not only easier (and less expensive) to keep that customer brand-connected, but it&#039;s also much harder for a competitor (or heaven forbid a non-commercial non-pillager) to &quot;capture&quot; the customer as that would normally require new facts displace old facts.

Of course, there are the &quot;long tail&quot; cases of extremists who vacillate from pole-to-pole - and usually wind-up as testimonial candidates in the &quot;euphoric&quot; phase of their transition experience.  Coke! Pepsi! Coke! Pepsi! Dr Pepper! Coke - and so it goes....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>News, yes.  New news, not even close.</p>
<p>Corporations, particularly HR departments and &#8220;placement agencies&#8221; feeding &#8220;heads&#8221; to the mill, have long been familiar with the psychological principals described in U-MI&#8217;s research.  One reason &#8220;businesses&#8221; prefer to hire younger applicants rather than the seasoned is directly attributable to the disruption and cost of (re)training an experienced new hire who has a dissonant reaction to new, factually different information.</p>
<p>The principle also shades the means by which customer-facing marketing programs are structured.  Did you think it was solely a lack of creativity and insight that makes most marketing so repetitive and &#8211; in today&#8217;s parlance &#8211; narrowly brand-driven?  Once a customer is &#8220;educated&#8221;, it&#8217;s not only easier (and less expensive) to keep that customer brand-connected, but it&#8217;s also much harder for a competitor (or heaven forbid a non-commercial non-pillager) to &#8220;capture&#8221; the customer as that would normally require new facts displace old facts.</p>
<p>Of course, there are the &#8220;long tail&#8221; cases of extremists who vacillate from pole-to-pole &#8211; and usually wind-up as testimonial candidates in the &#8220;euphoric&#8221; phase of their transition experience.  Coke! Pepsi! Coke! Pepsi! Dr Pepper! Coke &#8211; and so it goes&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: TomR</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/07/12/exposed-to-facts-the-misinformed-believe-lies-more-strongly/#comment-42510</link>
		<dc:creator>TomR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=9522#comment-42510</guid>
		<description>Great comments by enoughspin and Romberry.

Framing is the ability to communicate your ideas using the narratives and idioms already in our heads. The frames in our heads are the cognitive structures we think with.

So, isn’t framing just another word for manipulation? No. Framing is a tool that can be used for either good or evil. Through lying, deception and other manipulation tactics, Republicans like Karl Rove and Glenn Beck use framing to distort people’s perceptions of reality away from the truth.

As progressives, we can use framing supported by facts to bring our fellow citizens’ perception of reality closer to the truth. That is the difference between false framing and truthful framing.

&lt;strong&gt;We have two viable options for combating a conservative frame:&lt;/strong&gt;

1) Come up with an opposing, progressive frame to compete with it. When frames compete, only one of them can win inside your head. So if it&#039;s strong, impactful and based on the facts, it&#039;ll take out the conservative frame.

Alan Grayson - Counters the Republican &quot;socialized medicine&quot; frame by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.namesofthedead.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;acknowledging the fact&lt;/a&gt; that 44,000 die each year because they can&#039;t get health insurance, and frames what &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-usmvYOPfco&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Republican opposition really means for Americans&lt;/a&gt;.

2) Add to the frame to either change its meaning OR show its absurdity by extending it to its natural extreme.

Drew Westen - &lt;a href=&quot;http://fora.tv/2007/11/07/Deceiving_Image_The_Science_of_Manipulation#chapter_16&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Adding to &quot;Support the Troops&quot; Framing&lt;/a&gt;

Stephen Colbert - &lt;a href=&quot;http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-869183917758574879#&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Adding to &quot;Leading from the Gut, Small Government, Liberal Bias, Government Secrecy, Liberal Media, Stay the Course&quot; Republican Framing&lt;/a&gt;

Lewis Black - &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtlOBa6qa3o&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Adding to Glenn Beck&#039;s Nazi False Framing&lt;/a&gt;

So, fact lovers, please do not get discouraged. Although we cannot achieve our objectives using facts alone, together with a strong narrative they are quite powerful.

- Tom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great comments by enoughspin and Romberry.</p>
<p>Framing is the ability to communicate your ideas using the narratives and idioms already in our heads. The frames in our heads are the cognitive structures we think with.</p>
<p>So, isn’t framing just another word for manipulation? No. Framing is a tool that can be used for either good or evil. Through lying, deception and other manipulation tactics, Republicans like Karl Rove and Glenn Beck use framing to distort people’s perceptions of reality away from the truth.</p>
<p>As progressives, we can use framing supported by facts to bring our fellow citizens’ perception of reality closer to the truth. That is the difference between false framing and truthful framing.</p>
<p><strong>We have two viable options for combating a conservative frame:</strong></p>
<p>1) Come up with an opposing, progressive frame to compete with it. When frames compete, only one of them can win inside your head. So if it&#8217;s strong, impactful and based on the facts, it&#8217;ll take out the conservative frame.</p>
<p>Alan Grayson &#8211; Counters the Republican &#8220;socialized medicine&#8221; frame by <a href="http://www.namesofthedead.com/" rel="nofollow">acknowledging the fact</a> that 44,000 die each year because they can&#8217;t get health insurance, and frames what <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-usmvYOPfco" rel="nofollow">Republican opposition really means for Americans</a>.</p>
<p>2) Add to the frame to either change its meaning OR show its absurdity by extending it to its natural extreme.</p>
<p>Drew Westen &#8211; <a href="http://fora.tv/2007/11/07/Deceiving_Image_The_Science_of_Manipulation#chapter_16" rel="nofollow">Adding to &#8220;Support the Troops&#8221; Framing</a></p>
<p>Stephen Colbert &#8211; <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-869183917758574879#" rel="nofollow">Adding to &#8220;Leading from the Gut, Small Government, Liberal Bias, Government Secrecy, Liberal Media, Stay the Course&#8221; Republican Framing</a></p>
<p>Lewis Black &#8211; <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtlOBa6qa3o" rel="nofollow">Adding to Glenn Beck&#8217;s Nazi False Framing</a></p>
<p>So, fact lovers, please do not get discouraged. Although we cannot achieve our objectives using facts alone, together with a strong narrative they are quite powerful.</p>
<p>- Tom</p>
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		<title>By: TalkingStick</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/07/12/exposed-to-facts-the-misinformed-believe-lies-more-strongly/#comment-42508</link>
		<dc:creator>TalkingStick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 03:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=9522#comment-42508</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Any thoughts?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Conservatives&#039; world view is paranoid and hateful. They rely on cruelty to achieve their ends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Any thoughts?</p></blockquote>
<p>Conservatives&#8217; world view is paranoid and hateful. They rely on cruelty to achieve their ends.</p>
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		<title>By: TheLurkingMod</title>
		<link>http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/07/12/exposed-to-facts-the-misinformed-believe-lies-more-strongly/#comment-42507</link>
		<dc:creator>TheLurkingMod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 03:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.firedoglake.com/?p=9522#comment-42507</guid>
		<description>watertiger is upstairs!
&lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2010/07/12/late-night-sometimes-a-banana-is-actually-a-disguised-tactical-nuke/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Late Night: Sometimes a Banana is Actually a Disguised Tactical Nuke&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>watertiger is upstairs!<br />
<a href="http://firedoglake.com/2010/07/12/late-night-sometimes-a-banana-is-actually-a-disguised-tactical-nuke/" rel="nofollow">Late Night: Sometimes a Banana is Actually a Disguised Tactical Nuke</a></p>
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