(and thanks to my former Calitics colleague Robert Cruickshank for allowing the test run). I have a lot of material and a lot of thoughts about Netroots Nation this year, but they’re a little too undifferentiated to put into words. Yesterday was highly scheduled – talking with lawmakers and advocates about the challenges of the future.
I think you can point to a couple things that Al Franken said in his closing keynote to get a feel for the mood here at the event, which was quite a bit less gloomy than, say, the America’s Future Now conference last month. Franken said bluntly that we don’t have enough progressives in Congress to get the agenda we want, and an fair reading of the situation would prove him right. We can advance an issue or two, and create some litmus tests, but ultimately we’re at the beginning of a long road. The other thing Franken said (and I had a chance to talk with him one-on-one, so I’ll be writing about that in the future) was that the Supreme Court is taking away citizen’s rights one 5-4 decision at a time. That’s a key point, that the crisis of governance in the 21st century extends to the roadblock in the courts.
This all sounds very discouraging. But there are solutions lying around as well. The Majority Leader again committed to changing Senate rules yesterday, which has been a common theme of the conference (Speaker Pelosi just trashed the Senate in her remarks). And the powerful, emotional moment between Leader Reid and Lt. Dan Choi offered a glimpse into progressive pressure that can work. For those who don’t know about it, Choi shut down the Strip earlier this week with a protest over Reid scheduling a vote on ENDA and finishing DADT repeal. Reid acknowledged Choi during his opening remarks at the convention, and then, Joan McCarter handed him Choi’s West Point ring – Choi was just discharged for violating DADT days before. Reid said that he didn’t earn the ring, that he would give it back to Choi. Many in the audience said to only give it back when DADT was repealed, and Reid agreed. Then Choi jumped the stage, saluted, and he and Reid embraced. The LGBT community’s tireless efforts at activism – sometimes uncomfortable activism – have yielded respect and, hopefully, much progress. I think it’s a model going forward.
And yet. On the panel in which I participated on the foreclosure crisis, I took up a theme about the pathetic Obama/Treasury foreclosure mitigation program being a failure of liberalism, a confirmation of Ronald Reagan’s infamous statement that the most dangerous words in America are “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.” HAMP is not a liberal program, but it’s coming from a government seen as liberal, and the consequences are dire for millions of people as well as most everything we care about. And without resetting the housing market, we’re not going to fix the economy ever. The Administration seems far too content to ride this out and rely on cycles of economics, still wedded to a belief that the health of the banks means more than the security of the people. This would ring a death rattle for the middle class and basically consign them to no future.
I see a determination in the progressive movement actors here to move ahead with their own agenda and their own set of leaders. And I think there’s been a trial and error process of dealing with a centrist Administration and understanding how governing really happens, which is bringing us around to better practices. There’s only one thing to do and that’s to fight for the country against those who would take it in the wrong direction.
I’ll have probably a week’s worth of posts with some other thoughts and stories and interviews from Netroots Nation.




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Thanks for the rundown, looking forward to your posts this week.
Glad you’re back, David, and I too am looking forward to your posts about NN. An entire week of them–yum!
I think it’s a cop-out to say “We just don’t have the votes.” And I still don’t believe Reid is a progressive. But thanks for the reporting!
Thank you for keeping us informed David.
I have been reluctantly forced to conclude that I am not so eager to punish Democrats that I want to reward Republicans by doing so. It’s going to gall me more then usual and the enthusiasm gap is entirely their doing but I’m going to go vote and vote Democratic.
The whole thing seemed, from afar, quite depressing, weighted down by the inability to really go after an administration whose centrist policies are dragging down the country. The Democrats as a whole have essentially tagged along, with no real leadership yet emerging.
In the past, when faced with such challenges historically, U.S. society has responded with the creation of new parties. The old Democratic Party rose to challenge the Federalists. The old Republican Party rose to challenge the Whigs and the Democrats. The old Progressive and Socialist parties rose to challenge the Democrats and Republicans. While the latter didn’t replace those parties, they had a major impact on U.S. history.
Just sayin’.
The iPad now gives anyone the ready-and-able means to view and peruse pending bills, pending cases, and SCOTUS decisions and dissents, and to respond to others who are ready-and-able to respond further, and so on. Steve Jobs could have called it the iPendulum, but he’s far too humble.
FYI, the photo of you appears on the main fdl page, but not on the news page.
thoughtful piece David, look forward to reading more
and good gosh a’mighty now, Dan Choi is all about character !
Yeah, there will be a whole raft of nose holding voting come November (barring a few upsets in primaries from the left between now and then)
If we were simply discussing some things here that we were disappointed about, it wouldn’t be a cop-out. The problem is that they’ve simply not made any effort to fix anything. That’s the problem.
The Progressive Caucus has enough votes to block any legislation in Congress. That was particularly true of health care reform, where few progressive legislators would have suffered had there been no bill. That in itself tells you that they don’t use their power wisely. They’ve gone along to get along, and they have no power as a result.
That’s why the White House ignores them when they discuss legislation with Congress. You don’t bother talking to the patsies – just tell them what they’re supposed to do, and they’ll do it.
When progressives in Congress actually stand for something, I’ll take their protestations seriously. For the moment, I don’t have any use for the lot of them.
And here we have the reason why Obamarahma doesn’t have any incentive to enact progressive policies and every incentive to enact corporatist ones that will gain them campaign contributions from Wellpoint, Wall Street, etc. A democraven could kick you in the shin and you would still vote for them, they know you are a patsy.
It seems to me that if progressives don’t like that, approving the nomination of Elena Kagan is the wrong way to go. Once again, progressives say one thing, then do what amounts to the opposite.
If the only reason to vote democraven is to bring the USSC to the left then replacing Stevens (appointed by a repug!) with someone to his right puts the lie to that. Kagan is Byron White in a skirt.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen David Dayen and the Firepup freedom Fighters:
First I want to say that I have been spendin’ a lot of time away from FDL lately primarily because I can’t stomach the nihilistic anger and angst of many self-proclaimed progressives or leftists who long for a strong father figure in the executive branch of government to fix what ails our struggle for democracy and social justice. But I come back for posts like yours, Brother David, which articulates what some of us out here at the grassroots have been workin’ at for over the last 2 years. Suffice it to say that our country is poised upon an historical moment similar to that faced by the citizens of Wiemar Germany in 1932-33. The corporate fascist base which comprises 18-25% of the voting public has been able maintain control of our politics for 130 years by terror and political supression of the majority until we have reached the point that that minority threatens to split the body politic 1/3-1/3-1/3 and discourage the 1/3 in the “middle” to forsake the voting booth and take control of the House of Representatives much like the slavocracy of the antebellum South and the Dixiecrats after World War II. If the psuedo-progressives armchair radicals don’t get off their collective asses and mobilize the vote in their districts and townships the Dems will lose the House of Representatives while increasing their majority in the Senate. If this happens the vacuum of governance will be filled by fascists thugs in the streets not unlike Germany in 1932-33.
If this happens it will not be Obama’s fault or Rahm Emmanuel’s, our failure to take back our politics and democracy will fall squarely on the shoulders of the whiners and the “lost boys” who throw their shoes at the television screen and bark at the moon about how Obama has sold us down the river.
So thatks, Citizen Dayen, for beginning the conversation about how we go about breakin’ up the governance by an ineffective exectutive and corporate treasurers. I look forward to readin’ more about what you learned this week. In the meantime, those of you who are lookin to do something can get in touch with the brothers Dean through Democracy for America.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE FUCKIN’ AMMUNITION, THIS IS OUR WAR AND ONLY WE CAN WIN IT!!
Just be sure you get the keys back from Cruikshank — those Calitics troublemakers will, um, make some trouble if you let them! ;)
Glad you reconnected with the old krewe and represented FDL News so well, David.
Liberalism isn’t dead until the last liberal’ in the ground. So let’s not let it die! Make more liberals!
FDL Book Salon Welcomes Andrei Markovits and Lars Rensmann, Gaming the World upstairs
I can be more blunt than that, we don’t have ANY progressives in Congress. Even Kucinich, who talked a good game longer than most before capitulating and voting for the Senate HCR package… receiving absolutely NOTHING in exchange.
Margaret does not need me to defend her on this but like her, I too will hold my nose and vote for a D instead of a R or anyone backed by the Teaparty. I am 67 years old and have voted in every election since I was first able to at 21 in those days.
You want to vote for a Republican or a Tea Partier, have at it, but do not condemn those of us who have had enough of the Republican blather to last us a lifetime.
Yes, I too, like Margaret will hold my nose, but at least I know that the D is going to be a shade better than the alternative.
If I could vote for a Liberal/Progressive, I would do it any time. Russ Feingold is someone I like very much for standing on his principles.
Citizen ratfood:
Sigh…you just don’t get it, do ya?
I see a disturbing pattern developing. It appears that when progressives have direct contact with the people in our government like Pelosi and Reid, they suddenly lose all of their hostility and are ready to forgive and forget. How many times has Reid promised to do something about DADT? How many times has Obama done the same thing, and yet it appears we are all supposed to be pleased that Reid yet again said he would do something about DADT? For some reason we’re supposed to believe that THIS time he means it.
Same with Pelosi. She stands up and says how horrible the senate is–her “I feel your pain” moment–and now we get happy talk about fighting the good fight and how we must support the Democrats because the Republicans are worse.
Al Franken gets up and says basically, “We don’t have the votes,” and suddenly we’re all talking about how we need to get more progressives in the government instead of holding his feet to the fire on the filibuster. What happened to the meme that FDL wasn’t going to accept “we don’t have the votes” from the Democrats since all it would take is 51 votes to get rid of the filibuster? Was it Franken’s smile? His personal charm?
It appears to me either you all have been played and have been star-struck by your proximity to power, or there is some magical force the government is using on you to make you forget why you have been posting here for the last year.
DADT still is the law of the land, a vote on the filibuster has not occurred, and I guess we are supposed to forget Obama’s backroom deals on the health care bill, his hard right swing towards corporate governance, and his failure to fight for one single Democratic principle.
You appear to have been neutered. One weekend of talks and you appear to have been neutered. And just last night Scarecrow is telling us that if we are paralyzed with despair that “We are not helping.” Helping what? What is it that you netroots people are doing that the rest of us are not doing? What special powers of sight do you have the we don’t? Why have you turned your back on your progressive allies and told us basically to STFU?
I’ll cut you some slack because you are still probably high from all the excitement of the conference. I hope when you come down, you return to the kick-ass fighters that you used to be. If I keep hearing we need to support the troops from FDLers then I am out of here.
Unfair.
I think ratty gets it.
Simply different “its” being gotten. Yours is not the only valid view.
The Dems have gotten 30 years of lesser of evils votes from me, I will no longer reward bad behavior. I’ll vote for the party that represents little non-corporate me, if I live long to find one. Not holding my breath.
I think the other reason to vote Democratic is if you have the chance to vote for a Democratic challenger, assuming that challenger is at least somewhat progressive. That’s not the case in my US Rep. district, but it may be in some locations. Still, that reason still applies, regardless of what the current lot of Democrats are doing.
My recollection from previous events like this one (I didn’t attend this year) is that the “be polite and respectful” rules are quite vigorously enforced. I think the GetEqual people simply wanted to be in the room with Pelosi, for example, and were told that they’d be removed if they ActedUp.
Quite strict for a ‘free speech’ crowd.
Yes, the proximity to power can be intoxicating, but I think you’ll find FDLers are rather immune to that. I look forward to David’s reports, and those from others as well.
Nobody gets a pass from FDL.
What would it take for you to stop “holding your nose” and voting for one of the two corporate parties? There was a quote from somebody that said that voting for the lesser of evils is still voting for evil.
WTF said anything about voting for a repuglican? I have voted in every election since 1984 and have never voted Repug, even when I lived in counties where democravens didn’t bother to run. Do you have such tunnel, lesser of two evils vision that you fall right into Obamarahma’s trap, “either you are for us or you are for Palin and the Tea Party“? I’m sorry but Margaret’s post just set me off, all the complaining about O’s spinelessness here when many of you are the same, absofuckinglutely no sense of leverage.
Citizen Teddy Partridge:
Who is bein’ “unfair”, me who understands that there are indeed good folks who have been workin their asses off AND gettin’ a few things done like Al Franken or folks like Citizen Ratfood who don’t have a clue how to create a democratic majority even in their own lvingroom. No Citizen, I’m not the one tossin’ shit bombs at our own troops so don’t even think about callin’ ME out on this one.
Dday: I watched the whole foreclosure panel on ustream. I too am interested in your follow up posts.
1) Elisabeth Warren is amazing. Please let us know if you got any sense of ways that we can help her. I think your quick thinking on the conference call where you got two people in the Obama admin to say she was ‘well qualified” was brilliant and I’d like to know if there are other things we can do like that to help her.
2) PR and narratives. While everyone was at Netroots Nation Andrew Breitbart’s posting of an incomplete and misleading video ruled the news.
Did you get any sense while at Netroots Nation that anyone understands how to drive a narrative and a story on the left? For example was anyone bothering to drive and break some stories while at Netroots Nation?
3) How many of the mainstream media were at the event? Did you get interviewed my any of them? Did anyone at NetRoots Nation set up interviews with you and them? Now compare the number of media that were their vs. the tea party convention.
4) I didn’t get to watch any of the training panels, but I hopel that there was someone explaining how to make news that gets picked up by the national media vs. constantly being on the defensive with the right.
(My panel on the topic was rejected so I’m guessing that they must have been someone better who lead a different panel on the topic.)
Finally, iPads are hard to type on!
(((Teddy)))
I’ll always concede that I might be wrong and acknowledge the fact when I realize that to be the case. Life is too short to do otherwise.
No kidding. If it isn’t absolutely clear that to this blog good and proper policy trumps personality and tribalism every time, then the problem is with the reader, not the writers.
People will always disagree about the tactical pieces of dealing with our world, but in my opinion the progressive vision here is unimpeachable.
by the time you “know” whether or not norske’s view is the only valid one, it may well be too late/much, much harder to reverse it.
we’re living in very dangerous times. the fascist takeover in america is proceeding. if we don’t get up and fight for our rights with our skin in the game, we have a whole lot to lose. not to mention how much we’ve already lost. this, of course, is my view. it may or may not be the only valid one. but i think it’s absolutely critical that it gets strong air time.
I don’t see how you type on a 9-inch screen.
Perhaps but at the moment we appear to have a choice of hitching our wagon to two teams which are pulling in the same direction. Sometimes I even feel like what we actually have is a one-party system with two marketing divisions.
I am with you Margaret. We have a better chance of eventually converting weak kneed Democrats than we do Republicans,. And to with a broad brush punish them just makes them feel less responsible to the Progressives. That said, here in Georgia I am tempted to vote for the Republican for governor because the most likely Democrat is such a blue dog he won’t even be around when Obama visits Georgia. My reason is I want folks to have it clear what GOP leadership is like.
As far as the Supreme Court goes, there’s simply no telling. Former Chief Justice Earl Warren was a Republican (who defeated a liberal Democrat when he ran for Governor of California). I know: Republicans were ‘different’ before we were born. Until they learned how to steal elections like their brethren had been doing.
It sort of reminds me of battered spouse syndrome. A man or woman decides they are tired of their abusive spouse, but then he starts acting nice, then the woman gets back with them.
Your words “a democraven could kick you in the shin and you would still vote for them” and then you called her a “patsy”.
Excuse me, but that did not sound like you supported the D’s in any way, shape, or form.
If I was wrong to accuse you of voting Republican, my bad, and I apologize for that part but your words to Margaret and the rest of us who WILL hold our noses, does not mean that we like it, we just do not like the alternative if the Repubs make it back into office.
Are we all considered “patsies” because we do not subscribe to your definitions?
Citizen greenwarrior:
You “get it” Citizen Warriorperson and fightin’ in a “democratic” army means identifyin’ who the enemy is and gettin the backs of you brothers and sisters who may not share all your politics but are fightin’ the beast that threatens to consume us all. I will never get over the anger at folks I hear around this place who throw shit at patriots like Al Franken while lamenting that there aren’t any “progressives” in government. I hope you are workin in your town, township and congressional district to find issues and candidates in local and state races that reach your friends and neighbors and get ‘em all out to vote this November. Peace on ya Citizen.
What’s important is what the Republicrats, our one-party state, thinks, and they think you won’t stand behind your principles, any of them. Your, Talking Stick and Margaret’s posts stating that you’ll vote for the D marketing division of republicrats (regards to ratfood) no matter how piss poor their behavior strongly reinforce that impression.
Typing is geezer-geek tech. Apple has voice-recognition and very accurate dictation apps. You know, like: “Open the pod bay doors, HAL.”
Citizen AppleCanyon:
Yep you “get it” Citizen…furthermore those who thow shit at their “allies” who aren’t ideologically pure enough are more dangerous than lunatic Tea Partiers whose ignorance should be enough to mobilze a real democratic revolution.
Please explain to me how keeping the House and Senate in THESE Democrats hands is so critical to our well being that if we fail to do so, we allow the fascists to win. I’m just not getting it.
I understand that the Republicans and tea baggers are worse. I get that. But if I vote for Barbara Boxer this year, I will have another 6 years of of not being represented in the senate. Barbara Boxer used to be a good progressive and used to fight for what she believed in but after 24 years in office, she is tired and is loathe to rock the boat especially since she has so many good friends as colleagues. Don’t forget she campaigned for Joe Lieberman against Ned Lamont. She is not the progressive fighter we need. And then when she comes up for a vote again in another six years–wash, rinse, repeat. How does that foster any change whatsoever? The Democratic party will fight to keep any progressive from challenging Boxer.
My point is that if I vote for the teabagger Carly Fiorina this year, I’ll have six years of not being represented in the Senate followed by–and this is the key point–a chance at having a young, aggressive progressive to vote for after Fiorina screws things up. In that situation, I get six years of hell followed by a golden opportunity for change. In your scenerio, I get a tired old woman who is part of the establishment to represent me until she dies or quits. I like my scenerio better. I think my scenerio leads to change and yours is a fight to keep the status quo.
Please don’t hold your nose and vote for these people. You do not need to be afraid of the Republicans and tea partiers. You need to be afraid of the Democrats. They are the ones who have allowed torture to go unpunished, they are the ones who have given the health insurance industry even MORE control over the health of our country … and on and on.
A vote for a Democrat this election cycle is a vote for the status quo. If you are serious about wanting change, you need to be willing to make things worse before they get better.
“I’m sorry I can’t do that.”
I have used that same analogy here many times. It is a difficult situation to break free from.
In this tiresome rehash of criticizing Christianity,
Why Does God Reveal Himself to Some People and Not to Others?
http://www.alternet.org/belief/147623/why_does_god_reveal_himself_to_some_people_and_not_to_others/
I put this comment,
sisterlauren 0 seconds ago
Wow, check it out, Robert Greenwald smears the Tea Party.
Carly Fiorina: Runs to the Tea Party, Away From the Truth
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-greenwald/carly-fiorina-runs-to-the_b_658496.html
He must have heard that I have no advertising budget.
Hey Robert Greenwald, it is not my fault if conservative are listening to my good advice and joining the Tea Party in greater numbers than liberals. Big media is smearing it because they know if liberals join me, they are through.
The Tea Party is the only actual party in the ring that is against corporate governance.
I don’t like where Greenwald is going with this. Sure he has dated footage, but did he ever call me?
Did he notice how the structure of the Tea Party (modeling a girl scout troop) was encouraging EVERYONE to have free speech, and that focusing on the crazies is exactly what big media stoops to in order to get an exciting story?
I’d say his biases are showing, but I am afraid they are self creating. It is already too late. The Tea Party just got swift-boated by Brave New Films.
i think you’re right about a one-party system with two marketing divisions. i guess the point norske’s making is that we need to stand up on our hind legs and work hard to get the changes we want. that it’s not just a question of who we vote for.
Much of the reason the Dem establishment is openly contemptuous of the Left is that they know the “progressive” movement is actually comprised of about 85 percent Dem partisans who will vote for them no matter how badly they behave.
The HCR debacle really brought it into focus. “Progressives” complained about how terrible the Senate package was right up until it was put to a vote, at which point most of them suddenly decided it was the biggest improvement in health care delivery since Jesus.
you misinterpreted me 180 degrees. i did not say to vote for democrats who do not represent us. my own view is to fight against them. primary them if possible now. if not, as norske says get active in local politics so we have someone to primary them later.
HAL’s superior politeness wasn’t even matched for five years until Vito exceeded it.
And that’s where the tactical questions come up.
It so much depends on where you live.
For instance, I live in Colorado, and from the Amendment 2 days (anti-gay benefits for partners) I worked like a bitch to get more dems in. We got to a point of flipping CO from mostly red to largely blue in the population centers, as well as some other rural county inroads.
That was over a period of 10+ years. Now for the last 2 cycles, I push the Dems themselves to the left to get rid of the blue-dogginess.
So I am dead set against the Obama machine pushing Bennet down our throats, and yup, fighting OFA.
So much depends on the life-cycle of the local politics you have. There is no “one-size-fits-all national model, so you better do that or else.”
The one thing people CAN agree on is the vision of progressive policy piece.
yes,so far i’ve adopted two orphans streets in my precinct that don’t have democratic block captains. the woman representing me in the texas state house was an excellent freshman and i fully intend to support her campaign. we do have redistricting rearing its ugly head again. in 2005, with the extracurricular midterm redistricting, i was there for it all with delay leading the charge. it was quite an education for me, observing the good old boys of texas. it could hardly stand to be in the same room with them. god help us all.
We will have nobody to primary them later because the people with all the money and power will make sure of that. The Democratic party will thwart any attempts we make at removing an incumbent. We’ve seen that time and again–Blanch Lincoln is the latest. We don’t have the power you seem to think we do. Getting active in local politics is a noble endeavor and we all should do our part but that does not address the core issue of power. Our only power is our vote. If we continue to vote for the people in power, the people in power will prevent us from reaching our goals. It is a no win situation and I think those who are planning on voting Democratic this year are working against their own interests much like the rural Republicans keep voting against their own interests.
It is a frustrating situation and there are many viewpoints here that are valid but we must remember one core principle that trumps all the others. Our only power is our vote. If we give that power up, we lose the war.
“… focusing on the crazies is exactly what big media stoops to in order to get an exciting story…”.
Or they edit as they see fit to assassinate someone’s character and momentum: Howard Dean, 2004, being the media’s proof of concept.
I agree, that is why I keep arguing for a third party. The Tea Party was my idea.
It took me a long time to get conservative Christians to listen to me, but they do now. I sure wish the progressives would learn how to take advantage of that fact.
i know i won’t vote for obama again. i won’t vote republican. i’d love to see a progressive candidate put forward that we can all vote for en masse.
I guess I’m one of those shit throwin’, dangerous, lunatics. I’ve voted a straight democratic ticket since ’72 when I proudly cast my vote for George Mcgovern. Over the course of the years I’ve seen the party grow further and further to the right until there is not a hell of a lot of difference between the two. I’ve seen a lot of people shit on in my lifetime, some times to the point I was quite “dangerous”. In ’08 I had hope. Now any vestiges of hope are gone because of the lies Obama told. I’m old, I’m tired, and I’ve had a bellyfull of the enitre damn bunch. I just can’t take it anymore.
I defend my planned actions as long as there is not a sign of a progressive movement on the horizon. If we get one going with a rational agenda and tactics to go with it. I am at your side. Personally I think something like Club for Growth with targeted candidates to usnseat and those to elect would be a good strategy. But so far I see no signs of any cohesive movement. We all have our favorite progressives and spend a lot of time writing here and other places. No actions.
I think Dean was in danger of unraveling even if the exaggerated “yee-haw” moment hadn’t occurred. As a complete long-shot candidate he was able to speak with great candor. As he appeared to become a viable candidate he started parsing his words too much and pretending to be someone he was not. I recall cringing at the absurdly irrelevent Bible exchange.
Reporter: “What is your favorite book in the New Testament.”
Dean: “The one about Job.”
Reporter: “Job is in the Old Testament.”
Dean: “He is? Oh, I don’t know… one of the Gospels then.”
On the other hand (we’re all octopuses here), this blog – firedoglake – is a serious proof-of-concept enterprise as far as fund-raising goes. FDL is still a baby, just figuring out how to crawl. Soon enough they’ll be walking, and hardly stumbling. They (we) will be heard. They (we) will be listened to. They (we) will make a difference. Wait a little longer.
Don’t forget: By the end of 2003 Howard Dean had raised more money than any other Democratic candidate, and all of that came from small, Internet donations.
What about John Monds running on the Libertarian ticket?
http://www.votemonds.com/issues_index.html
What is your opinion of him?
Or is it a given that a black man can’t win in Georgia?
“I think Dean was in danger of unraveling even if the exaggerated “yee-haw” moment hadn’t occurred.”
Maybe so, maybe not so.
If you’re watching TV it can only mean you’re not doing something else.
Most people in the US watch TV more than they do anything else except breathe.
(I have no hope, but I don’t despair.)
Go ahead and call her Warriorwomon, Norske; it OK
I don’t despair either but then, since I have no progeny there is a limit to how long those in power can fuck with me.
Libertarians scare me almost more then Republicans. His first statement makes me think “cut entitlements”. Hell, Obama will do THAT. IS doing that.
I noticed in looking up Georgia’s gubernatorial race that the Rasmussen Reports and Public Policy Polling were not including the Libertarian Party candidate in general election polling.
I don’t understand why that party or candidate isn’t screaming bloody murder about not being included in these polls. Really it is a disgrace.
It looks like blacklisting to me and I think all the down parties and their candidates should all be demanding an immediate change in policy. It is not like it is going to cost Rasmussen more money.
He referred to me as a dangerous shit throwin’ lunatic, bless his heart. :)
Well, aren’t you? ;>]
And I’m sure there’s a 100% majority of progressives in your living room, unless Bob is going all Avitarian. Which would still give you a 50/50 split.
Don’t I know it. I have been on the receiving end of quite a bit of it myself.
I am sooooo thankful for FDL. Without you guys, I could not have survived the Bush years. So a big thank you to all of you and my sincerest apologies for some of my harsher words this last year. I have been at the end of my rope for quite some time and my arms are tired.
I am truly impressed with Jane (and Christie too!) for their clear vision and strong constitutions. I know it is too early to write off the progressive movement and that continued work towards our shared goal will eventually pay dividends. My concern is that as soon as we become any sort of threat to the Democratic establishment, we will see our power deleted as simply as they can delete net neutrality.
I’m just not young enough or strong enough to keep hoping that the future will be brighter after decades of hard work. I have already put in decades of hard work and I have absolutely nothing to show for it. For me, this is my last stand. It is time for the hail mary pass. It is time to vote the Democrats out of power so that we can rebuild the party in our own image. We must have a counterweight to the right wing Republicans and at this point, we got nothin’. The time for waiting has passed. The time for action is now.
I call on all FDLers to fight the inertia. Fight that nervous feeling in the pit of your stomach that says “But what if the Republicans get back into power?” If we survived Bush, we can survive anything. Use your vote to send a message that we are not all partisan Democrats, that we think for ourselves, and that we will not be abused any longer. Get mad as hell and don’t take it anymore!
You betcha! I resisted at first but I might be leaning Avitarian too… “g”
Progeny are overrated as a rationale for behavior. It’s my impression that neither Miss Jane Hamsher nor Miss Marcy Wheeler have progeny (nor any lack of devoted adoration). If I were a lioness or a ‘Grizzly-Mom’ with cubs, or a Sarah Palin, I’d find the tallest tree to climb or try to fly to Jupiter before I’d think abut fucking with either Marcy or Jane.
If he scares you imagine how much he will scare the Republicans.
I think of “cut taxes” as a secret code for cutting excessive military spending in foreign countries. We need to bring that idea out of the closet. Talk about uranium munitions and sick vets to bring it home.
Maybe if some progressives go volunteer for his campaign they can influence his thinking. Legalizing pot could free up a lot of resources for important things, like early childhood nutrition. It is a matter of getting people to realize what is most important (our children are the future) and investing directly in it. I think Libertarians get that as a goal and are grappling with it.
I have noticed that smart guys are willing to compromise. Libertarians have a lot to win by working with progressives. What do we demand that they don’t like? Equal rights? Protecting the environment?
That makes for an interesting argument. I hope someone will be sure to you-tube it so we can all judge for ourself.
I think I might be turning Avitarian. Somedays, I have an overwhelming desire to shit on Rick Larsen’s, DINO,Wa. car. He won’t get my vote again.
Libertarians I know don’t believe in Guvmint programs, yet they use the roads, bridges, ferries, schools,fire dept.,etc. I don’t know how to find common ground with a political view that supports “survival of the fittest”, the rest be damned.
Libertarians lack grace. They are human only to a biologist.
The Libertarians I come in contact with are sincere people working hard for their families. I just don’t understand why they want a country with a completely rotted infrastructure to hand over to the kids they worked so hard to raise.
If you see Rick be certain to flash him the one-fingered Avitarian salute, aka “the bird.” :)
Out of curiosity, on that foreclosure panel did any of the panelists suggest or promote the idea of strategic defaults? This is the only power underwater homeowners have over their debts.
If thousands of people strategically default the Obots will have to come to the table with a new plan. HAMP is legalized extortion by the Banksters. Everyone in the real estate game knows this.
Why don’t the “Progressives” trumpet a mass-strategic default campaign?
Yep – Dday was on that panel with Elizabeth Warren and Sen. Merkley and they indeed talked about strategic walk aways.
DDay went so far as to say (paraphrase) “There’s nothing so American as starting over.”
Merkley agreed as well as Warren, who laid out WHY the rules are the way they are right now, and emphasized that they’re outmoded.
It was a great panel.
Good! I’m glad to hear it.
I believe strategic defaults should be championed loudly and consistently. Literally, its the only leverage we as debtors have against the Banks/Financial Corps.
Working hard for your family doesn’t involve ethical behavior; it’s one biological stage removed from self-centeredness. The Libertarians I know and know of are political theorists with willful ignorance of Realpolitik. Whether modern politics requires a mix of empathy and compassion to be effective is hard to say. I think it does.
Rahm and the boys are counting on you to do just that. They are banking on our fear of the republicans keeping us hostage to this corporatist democrat party. The democrats abuse their base bcz they know we are afraid of the republicans and the republicans honor their base bcz they are more afraid of them than they are the democrats. If I dont have to honor my commitments to you and still get your vote then why wld I do anything that you want me to do?
Aren’t you late to a Nader meeting? Or maybe your unicorn needs fed…
Don’t be so discouraged. 75 years ago, Social Security did not exist, 100 years ago, women did not have the vote, and 150 years ago slavery was legal. I’d say if you hadn’t worked so hard, things would be much worse. It’s ok to pass the torch, in fact, necessary. The arc of history bends inevitably left, it slows down and speeds up and sometimes reverses as time goes by, but left is the overall direction.
Actually, you’ve got a point. They are very self-centered, now that I think about it. They use our community hall and community built park, but they never help out with the fundraising and sweat- equity required to keep these things going.
Damn.
A few things libertarians and progressives have in common:
They both are antiwar.
They both are against anti-privacy legislation such as the Patriot Act.
Most libertarians are for pot legalization.
Libertarians I’ve met believe in fair elections.
Pat Robertson pointed out that for all the money spent sending spacecrafts and cameras to Mars and all over the Solar System, there has never been a single observation made out there of a Libertarian, a Progressive, or an Atheist.
“They [libertarians and progressives] are both antiwar.”
I wasn’t aware there was a consensus about that by either constituency. Most military warriors are antiwar.
That reminds me. In the 1960s and 1970s, there were ‘war protestors’. A few weeks ago I saw teaser headlines at HuffingtonPost referring to “anti-war protestors”.
Just two notes, one directed at @figaro.
First about the Harry Reid thing. Here’s a guy who voted for DOMA coming to an progressive conclave and acted like a right wing leader pressing: he pressed at the social and culture war buttons of progressives–I do admit it was great Kabuki. Sorry he came to the conference to get progressives on board for Novemenber by throwing the bone of gay rights to progressives. DADT ain’t gonna happen under this administration nor his leadership. There simply ain’t no meat on the bone he was throwing.
For figaro: I hear you. I have thought the same thing. Run progressives. If their DINO oppenents lose in the general election maybe a good thing as you point out–next time the field is wide open for a progressives so over time the gop moles are driven out. Also, speaking of the status quo it was outright voter suppression by fellow Dems that did in Halter along with Obama’s and Clinton’s support. The status quo in the real world of politics. In fights with blue dogs you can be sure that Dems will cheat other Dems–I saw it the years I was active in Dem precient work. If the big ones are defeated, the machine will not be as effective.
Black men win in Georgia more often than you think.
Libertarianism is a heartless and souless antisocial philosophy,. Black or white,Libertarians are more dangerous than Republicans. Neal Boortz is the local example. t=This particular candidate favors cutting school budgets, a flat tax and other absurd changes such as cutting school budgets.
Can’t pretend to get worked up over Obama’s corporate court appointments. Sorry!
Agree with me, disagree with me, but don’t insult me.
I applaud you figaro. You share my distaste for the current Democratic party. It disappoints me greatly that so many here at FDL are willing to go against what their moral compass tells them and will foolishly vote for the Democrat merely because “we’re scared of what the Republicans will do”.
Looking at the past two years, I can’t honestly believe the Republicans would have done that much worse. The Democrats are as worthless as the Republicans, but I refuse to continue to support a party that stopped supporting me quite some time ago.
In regards to people’s comments about we didn’t have social security or Medicare 100 years ago, that’s all very true. In regards to slavery though, when was that abolished? How long did it take for blacks to be treated like human beings?
If you are saying the amount of time it took for that to right itself is acceptable, you’re all fools. You are the morons that Emanuel seems to think we are. You’re all lemmings. The battered wife scenario is true.
Let me know how that hopey-changey thing worked out for ya.
I am not a Republican or a Libertarian, but let me tell you, I’d prefer to have Ron Paul as President today as opposed to Barrack Obama. Ron Paul may be a bit off the reservation in regards to his economic philosophy, but you can bet your bottom dollar, he’d do everything to end our pointless wars and bring our troops home.
See, I’m using exactly the same sort of “half a loaf” strategy that the majority of you employ. Ron Paul would not be a king, and would have to work through Congress to dismantle our economy and government. He could end the wars since our Congress has done such a bang up job giving up all its power to the executive. After all, they don’t want to be seen to be “responsible” *gasp* for anything.
Republicans, teabaggers and libertarians may all be insane in many ways, but they truly believe in their cause. Looking at everyone here, we believe in giving up our idealism at the door and settling for the shit sandwich that the Democrats are happy to serve us.
You really think things will be that much different if we don’t vote for Democrats? Saddam also has weapons of mass destruction. Al Qaeda is going to get you. The Gulf of Tonkin incident really did occur.
Came late. If you don’t want progressives blamed for Democratic failures, stop inviting Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi to your signature conference. Stop bemoaning the fact that Obama didn’t bother to send anyone important from his Administration. Break with the Democrats or share the blame with them.
Franken is only partly right. There are no progressives in Congress or the White House. Zero. Just because Franken self-identifies as a progressive doesn’t make him one. Would a progressive vote for Obama’s corporate sellouts on healthcare and FinReg? Franken did. Franken was especially sneaky in voting for cloture on Bernanke’s reconfirmation and then voting against him in the final vote. This vote was particularly perplexing because his vote wasn’t needed for cloture. It was 77-23.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=2&vote=00015
And if the tone of the conference was less gloomy, maybe that was Vegas or maybe it’s just more detached from reality.
Bingo.
I admit you make some good points but I truly believe that electing republicans like Bush can make things a whole lot worse. I mean not just a little but gawd awful just like happened the previous 8 years. Just my belief. You see I don’t think repugs will ever do anything worthwhile. And the chance of electing a really progressive congress after being in the wilderness awhile? Nil Not without another depression and then it will likely be the same shit. What we need, and won’t get I know, is a super majority. So I agree with the general sentiment. Vote for you favorite dem.
One other thing I noticed is many want the filibuster rule reversed. I will say again, be carful what you wish for especially in the next congress which is likely to have a very high repug count.
On the filibuster, I would ask how many times did Dems use it effectively against Bush? I really don’t know–all I remember was that the gopers said they would go to a simple majority and the Dems apparently caved. If the Dems refuse to use, why give it as an option to gopers.
But I will be calling both of my Senators after the Labor Day break when they hopefully are paying attention and tell them that I expect the to use the filibuster to stop Obama’s Cat Food Commission. Especially Ron Wyden has he has waxed about how necessary the filibuster is.
The problem seems to be that not that change takes time (actually the discussion and creation of actual laws takes actually very little time-it is the implementation that takes time). The problem seems to be that good portions of the Dem leadership don’t actually believe in the goals, policies, and laws that would start the process of change. The issue of patience becomes more of a stalling tactic for some future La La time when Obama and company will reveal all, and fix all. A day that will never come.
My hot issue beyond all hot issues is war given the experience of my family (which at one time involved cattle cars). As I watched the debates I said WTF the only real anti-war candidates are the ones being marginalized by the media and their own parties. Ron Paul stood out as the best anti-war candidate as he absolutely stood up the gop war monger candidates. After reading Obama’s web site and other sources, there was no way I could vote for Obama against Paul. But the choice never had to be made.
As I thought about this I reasoned that a Dem Congress could and would stop Paul and his liberatarian economics. And then the thought struck me, and I understand it is theoritical in nature, but would the Dems have tried to stops Paul’s anti-war policies and reduce the military?? Would the Dem leadership have stood up to Paul and said yes to war, and yes to more war? For my own regard, I did not answer that question.
I’m with Figaro. At least vote for a 3rd Party candidate or write in Elizabeth Warren for whatever office is being contested. Do NOT vote for either of the legacy corporate parties. For God’s sake people, have some self-respect. Stop doing exactly what Rahm knew you would do.
“I will never get over the anger at folks I hear around this place who throw shit at patriots like Al Franken while lamenting that there aren’t any “progressives” in government. I hope you are workin in your town, township and congressional district to find issues and candidates in local and state races that reach your friends and neighbors and get ‘em all out to vote this November.”
In 2008 when I carefully rechecked my ballot while in the voting booth for any ommissions or errors, I had a nice smile of satisfaction that my choices included Obama, Al Franken and Keith Ellison. First met Franken and Ellison in 1990, while working on (RIP) Paul Wellstone’s first Senate Campaign. Getting these kinds of quality choices is not a matter of luck or the good will of the party. It is all about fighting the necessary battles as they come along so as to be offered such choices.
Too many who just got engaged with politics in the last several cycles do not understand that this is not an instant gratification game. You bring good potential candidates up through the ranks, you learn how to introduce an outsider (Franken for instance) into a position to run for a nomination and then for office without climbing the ladder, and you learn how to knock out those who prove to be mistakes before they get elevated.
If Progressives want better candidate choices, you have to grow them sometimes slowly.
“A vote for a Democrat this election cycle is a vote for the status quo. If you are serious about wanting change, you need to be willing to make things worse before they get better.”
Are you personally willing to take responsibility for malnutrition in kids whose parents are unemployed, and running out of Unemployment Insurance as the Republicans seem to advocate? All because Boxer campaigned for Lieberman instead of Lamont?
Lieberman didn’t beat Lamont because of Boxer — it happened because the Republicans had a dud of a candidate, Rove raised Lieberman money and associated himself and Republicans with Lieberman (and thus associated the Bushies with him), and Lamont didn’t have a strategy to counteract that, nor did he have good strategy to pick off working class and minority support for that former Democrat called Lieberman.
I’m sorry Sara, using your same rhetorical argument, are YOU willing to accept responsibility for the continued wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the thousands of dead American soldiers who will have ultimately died for nothing? Are YOU willing to allow for the continued protection of war criminals and the erosion of our rights? Are YOU willing to continue to allow for the continuation of politics as usual?
Both sides are funded by the same corporations. Politicians pay lip service to causes. You don’t think the teabaggers are going to be as equally disappointed by Republicans when they get elected this fall and fail to deliver on most of what they proposed? Don’t you get it? Both sides lie to their constituencies to get elected.
It’s all about money and we’re just fodder.
With that being said, I’d rather have the slate continually wiped clear to help bring home the point that if you continue to make deals with power brokers, you won’t have much time to turn that relationship into a lobbyist deal after the fact.
Using your logic about “grow the sometimes slowly”, you’re asking for us to take 100 years to advance the progressive cause. Give me a break. We’ll be our graves long before anything actually comes to fruition using your logic.