JMO, but I think O wants this issue just to go away. I think he hasn’t the slightest interest in it and is trying to avoid pissing off either side.

he personally opposes gay marriage but supports “equality”

I would think this is quite clear. He is completely behind equality. It’s just, as we all should know, some are more equal than others.

I keep wondering what he thinks he has to gain by this duplicitous view?

Obama’s on the same side of history as the people who fought so hard to keep his parents’ marriage illegal in parts of the United States, at the time of his own birth. Can’t he see this?

It remains a stain on the White House that our Democratic president isn’t leading on this civil rights issue of our time. A horrible shame.

…he personally opposes gay marriage but supports “equality”.

Snort. Yet another chickenshit non-position. What does that even mean? That Obama favors some “separate but equal” arrangement? Surely our Constitutional scholar knows something about the history of that idea.

You’re right, certainly, but Obama not leading just seems to be par for the course.

GAH & BAH!! I realize that BHO is a well-paid corporate hack shill, but it’s beyond disgusting that he twists himself into a pretzel to avoid supporting civil rights for all citizens. As hopelessly useless as the so-called “Democratic Party” is these days, BHO has a lot of nerve to continue calling himself a “Democrat.” What a sick and perverted joke that is.

I hear you, but I think this not-taking-a-stand goes beyond lack of leadership and falls into the territory of being “traitorous” to his political party, and certainly to the voters who supported him and those who are alleged to be his “constituents.” Revolting.

Axelrod…did not address directly Obama’s position on Wednesday’s court ruling, which struck down as unconstitutional California’s Proposition 8,

If I’m not mistaken, didn’t Obama teach constitutional law at Harvard? If that is true, then one would suppose he might be able to opine just a bit on the subject. It would seem to me that he’s trying to avoid this issue (and DOMA and DADT, etc.) to appease a specific voting bloc, but…

Hey Mr. Prez: These wingnuts ain’t gonna vote for no “Satanic Kenyan Muslim” anyways, so why not step up and do the right thing?

Yo Teddy: Your statement of yesterday afternoon was eloquent. Very good job.

He just wants everyone to love him. Both sides of all different kinds of aisles. The man is confused. He doesn’t see what is happening. It’s too bad. Especially for the nation.

Obummer does it again.

My guess is Obama personally supports marriage equality for all people, given Michelle supports full marriage equality and has said so publicly. Understanding the nature of America’s politicians, especially those who aspire to the more lofty positions within the structure, those politicians always reach for conservative positions on social policy. Bill Clinton, of all people, came out in favor of marriage equality, but Hillary, still operating within the political structure, has not.

Unfortunately this is the way our political system works. People can’t be honest with their positions for fear of public reprisal. This is the problem with letting religion and religious principles invade so much of our public sector. The one clue that leads me to believe Obama supports full marriage equality is his statement saying he believes this is an issue for states to solve. If he vehemently opposed marriage equality his statements would refelct an absolutist position of denial, they don’t.

At some point Obama and other Democratic leaders, will feel it is safe to “come out of the closet” in their support of full marriage equality for all people, straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered. Until that time comes, we will have to live with his continued torturued responses on the matter. Conservatives, notwithstanding the position and approval shown by Ted Olson and others, will always cater to the religious minorities who spout a fundamentalist and literal view of religious doctrine (though we all know their literalist views only apply selectively to those issues with which they have a personal problem with, such as homosexuality). A true literalist view of all religious doctrine would be abhorrent to 95% of Americans and so they pick and choose their sins to demagogue. Such is the nature of a homophobe and hypocrit.

Human rights and civel rights demand we all be treated equally, as MLK, Ghandi, and many other human and civil rights leaders have espoused. Where there is one group of people being oppressed and not free, then we are all not free!

What a fucking wimp. We are a nation of cowards.

In the immortal words of Helen Thomas, “Obama is a coward.”

If LGBT rights were the only progressive issue on which he was making a pathetic attempt to straddle the fence, one might be able to ascribe it to a personal hangup. But, it is not. This is the pattern of his lack of leadership on a growing list of issues.

But as should have become obvious more than a year ago, he isn’t going to get everyone to love him. And as it is, his attempts to be all compromisey and bipartisan are making everyone mad. So when does he cut it out and just lead?

Obama taught at Chicago but was not tenured faculty.

Slightly OT: Something has happened to Obama’s support even at Dkos. Yesterday, David Sirota slammed him for dissing progressives. Then someone else slammed Sirota for “demonizing” Obama. What was interesting was that the comments were about evenly split bet support and opposition for Obama but the recommendation on them was 2-to-1 against Obama.

If Obama is actually losing the Kossacks, he’s lost most of the left. The only thing he has is his lesser-of-evils charm.

I don’t understand the surprise at Obama’s reaction, or lack of action. Would you expect a Blue Dog status quo corporatist to behave any differently? If not, then why would you expect Obama to?

Keep you friends close. Keep your enemies closer.

With an R president there would be unity, and none these dreadful divide and conquer (Fucking Retards, let them eat cake) machinations.

Of course you’re right about the wingnuts, but 95% of black voters voted for Obama. That includes a lot of Southern Baptists.

Please don’t confuse disgust and surprise.

dday – now you’re using the weasel words !!

Dim-0-Craps do NOT “look” weak, they are pathetically cowering in a pile of pissy diapers because they are fucking weak,

except for the sold out sacks of shit like Dodd, who are just flat out sold out.

DO NOT VOTE FOR ANY INCUMBENT. Write in “Me”, write in your pet toad, write in your own name …

Let them win with their fascist defined ‘middle’ and fake ass ‘independents’, since us DFHs don’t matter!

rmm.

Hey Mr. Prez: These wingnuts ain’t gonna vote for no “Satanic Kenyan Muslim” anyways, so why not step up and do the right thing?

I’m beginning to wonder if his concern is the ‘wingnuts.’ I’m more inclined to believe it’s with religious Democrats.

{ LMAO } The various Stepford Wives are tilting like pinball machines: Lincolngate

David and Firedogs -

having a chuckle – Greg Sargent has just put up a pretty good post – Is Obama’s Position Sustainable ?

chuckling, ’cause his usual crew of OFA apologists don’t seem to have much of a response when confronted with their guy’s separate but equal stance

For Obama the shortest distance between two points is a triangle.

“Mr. President what is your choice, A or B?”

“C.”

“There is no third choice, Mr. President. A or B?”

“C.”

Obama continues to defend both DOMA and DADT in court and is against marriage equality……he has already picked a side and it’s quite clear which one it is despite what the democrats and HRC say.

Obama taught at Chicago Law School, which is an even worse hotbed of neoliberalism than Chicago’s economics dept., and that’s upping the ante pretty significantly. The usual suspects (Coors, Mellon-Scaife, etc) years ago formed a training program for federal judges to make sure they’re on the ‘right’ page. After all, there’s that thingy called the constitution that’s written and litigated in court in full view, and then there the constitutiness that can be used to benefit the PTB. O completely favors the latter.

Obama’s position is sustainable, it simply indefensible.

Except for the O-bots’ inevitable fall back position, “Would you rather have a Republican?”

As if there would be a discernible difference…

How many right wing positions are there left for him not to embrace?

Obama continues to defend both DOMA and DADT in court and is against marriage equality……he has already picked a side and it’s quite clear which one it is despite what the democrats and HRC say.

I think you get to the heart of the matter. Obama has a record that we can look at. This is not an isolated event. The pattern is clear.

Also everything now is being done with an eye to the November elections. The White House is trying to do the minimum necessary to con the Democratic base into supporting Democrats again while at the same time doing nothing that might upset conservatives. So if this gives the appearance that he is talking out of both sides of his mouth, that’s because he is.

think I heard rumblings about an anti fluoride bill . . .and there’s always school prayer

This is easy peasy.

Take the views of your average coporate money drenched, religous, Reagan worshipping Republican. Whatever they hate (Unions, Teachers, Social Security, Gheys, Liberals etc), Obama hates.

Not complicated.

Personally I am an ex-Kossack who finds FDL a far more civilized atmosphere. I had as much of the wars as I was willing to take.

Look up “duplicitous” in the dictionary and you’ll see Obama’s picture.

How fierce to advocate separate but equal.

Welcome.

Yes, we are civilized, if I do say so myself, but we sometimes get annoyed with each other. *g*

I can only take a bit at a time, but those brief times can be sort of fun, e.g., I post links to Hugh’s list.

But I also notice a major shift toward sanity. The Obamabots are getting to be fewer and more shrill. And the rest are catching on to what Obama has been up to.

BTW, you primer on economic history was wonderful. Thanks.

In politics, being wanting to be loved by all is delusional nonsense. Being respected, however, makes more sense as an objective.

Obama won’t get much respect for his spineless cowardice and inability to take political risk.

Just one more example of Obama’s truly GOP sympathies.

There is no Equality without Marriage Equality. Barry’s insistence on “Separte But Equal” consigns him to the ashcan of history.

When will the left realize that it is flat out mean to ask a guy like Bam to “pick a side.” He has risen to the highest office in the land not because of his convictions but the lack thereof.

Mr. President, are you with us or them?
(asks Rahm and Dave)
Well both sides have their concerns, but let me be clear- I believe that there are serious concerns on both sides. We need to find consensus, not belittle one another.
Mr. President, why are you so dismissive of the marijuana issue despite it’s enormous economic and political significance?
Next question?
Mr. President, if a fat fascist clown like Arpaio can tell you and Eric to go fuck yourselves with impunity, what are the odds that you’re actually in charge of anything

Thank you.

Writing on the wall. What is it about the left or progressives that simply will not see Obama for who he is? Why do people keep making up their own idealized version? He’s nearing the halfway point of his term – folks, this is who Obama is. He’s not with the gay community, unless he’s reaching for their checks.

I commented on this two or three weeks ago. I’ve noticed that things have evened out there myself.

I didn’t go there AT ALL for months, so it was quite striking to me at the time to see the difference between the two time frames.

I’m glad, and hope that eventually a lot of this drift can heal. Obama and the Democrats are at fault for not being real Democrats, not FDL for pointing out that fact. It’s simply a matter of time before most will see it.

Still good to know though. Although TBH I don’t give one little rat’s ass whether Kos himself ever “gets it” or not. I never did trust that guy myself. Jane, I felt like I was at home the first time I heard her on TV and the first time I read her work and have never felt different. She. Is. The. Real. Deal.

Yup. And Obama isn’t “spineless”, “afraid of conflict”, either. He and Rahm bring the hammer down on progressives when they don’t toe the line. Obama wants GOP policy. He wants lobbyists and the GOP to drag Democratic legislation to the right. It’s all by design.

When Kos ridiculed posters for bringing up the electronic voting machine issues after the 04 elections I dismissed him forever.

Mmmmm… Purity of Essence.

Either Obama thinks LGBT are less than fully human, and therefore deserve less than full human rights. Or, he thinks they’re fully human, but is willing to treat them as less than human in order to win votes; to sell them for his personal benefit

That means he’s either a bigot or a pimp. Take your pick.

Independent or 3rd party. DNC is GOP.

Who’d have imagined, back in the 1950′s, that we’d have a black man advocating for “separate but equal” status for some American citizens.

I’ll be voting for his opponent, whoever it might be, if he keeps walking down this road. Just to punish him and the Party of Assholes who aren’t pushing him to side with justice and equality.

Obama should join our Media whores

God forbid he go an entire statement without false equivalence – seems it as correct to oppose gay marriage as it is correct to support “equality”.

Obama has the exact same position as Meg Whitman, Republican running for CA governor.

not surprising.

I don’t know why the LGBT community keeps getting all twisted about Obama’s stance on this issue. He’s always said he is in support of civil unions but not gay marriage. He is a Christian as he has had to prove over and over again during the election. In staying true to his faith gay marriage just isn’t a part of it. I think we can be disappointed with him for alot of things but this the one thing he has always stayed true to. I’m still pissed about the public option and that’s something that he initially said he was in favor of and never fought for.

I can accept President Obama’s position. However, Prop 8 changed my mind about supporting civil unions as a substitute for marriage. Once the issue became taking away the constitutional rights of Americans, I knew what side to support!

Plus, we can only stand so much irony in a given day. The first phrase that popped into my head as I read David’s opening paragraph was “Back in the day, we called that ‘separate but equal’, Mr. President.” Aravosis, and probably just about everyone else who heard about this before I did beat me to it, which shows that it’s an irony not lost on many of us here.

Yup, that’s our Obama.

well, Obama can certainly hold a “personal” view against marriage equality and his view that “God is in the mix”. But, as President, sworn to uphold the constitution, he cannot hold a view that God is in the mix of a civil matter. And now, according to Judge Walker, he cannot hold a view as President against marriage equality.

Since Obama is supposedly a constitutional scholar, let him explain how his position that “God is in the mix” of a civil matter holds up. It doesn’t. It cannot. It’s illegal.

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen David Dayen and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Great post as usual Brother David. Citizen Aravosis’s open letter is the way to force a “centerest” executive office holder away from his right wing advisor’s and face the reality that he needs all the diverse interests that he mobilized to get elected in order to govern…AND this tactic of goin’ right after ObamaRahma does NOT undermine Democrats in their districts, in fact it really gives the rank and file office holders up for re-election lotsa room to negotiate the issue without bein tied to a weak, mealy mouthed President.

With the Democratic House leadership advancing independently of the White House and beginnin’ to frame issues for their members’ re-election separately from AxelRhama, Democrats can now use local issues like Marajuana legalization and Prop.8 as well as national issues like UE exptension and aid to states to hold the House and in fact put pressure on the Blue Dogs that hasn’t been there from the White House.

I hope folks here at FDL are beginnin’ to smell the coffee and realize that the road to a progressive politics and majority is NOT through a strong executive but through relocating the center of governance from the White House to the House of Representatives.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE CURE FOR A SICK DEMOCRACY IS MORE DEMOCRACY!!

“I keep wondering what he thinks he has to gain by this duplicitous view.”

I’ve been wondering that for about 18 months.

Obama hasn’t avoided pissing off the GLBT community. His blatant attempt at middle-of-the-road squishy triangulation is failing miserably.

GLBTs are increasingly disgusted with this Administration. And the wingnuts all think he’s the bastard son of Satan and Hitler, no matter what he does or says.

All that fence sitting. Isn’t his ass sore by now?

Obama is such a pathetic failure on so many fronts.

I say that as someone who supported Kucinich, then Edwards, then Hillary Clinton – knowing full well that Hillary would sell Bill for a few extra delegates.

I supported Obama only after the nomination and only half-heartedly. Why? Because he used Donnie McClurkin – a virulent homophobe who suggested “war on gay people” – to increase his exposure within the African American evangelical community in the early primaries and then prevaricated it away. That told me everything I needed to know about Obama.

Thus, I was disappointed, but not surprised, when he asked Warren to give the invocation at the inaugural. Sames goes for Wall St., Gitmo, Iraq, Afghanistan. You name it.

I am in total support of primarying Obama in 2007-2008 – knowing full well what a primary challenge would do. Especially with the demographics of the Democratic Party, any primary challenge would fatally comprise the ultimate nominee’s chances.

But since Obama is going to lose anyway – there is no reason not to challenge him. And I will gladly vote for almost anyone else.

Obama is Clinton without the charm. It doesn’t work when Mr. Obama does it. He appears to have the courage and vision of a middle manager.