I mentioned in the last post about scapegoating, which seems to follow a recession. Matt Yglesias had a good piece in the Washington Post this week about the issue. But beyond public employees and the “lazy unemployed” xenophobia appears to be taking center stage this summer, both with respect to the Cordoba House Islamic center and the birthright citizenship issue. In short, as Peter King (R-NY) surprisingly admits, demonizing brown people seems to be driving a lot of what the Republican Party stands for nowadays.
King, the Long Island congressman, said that in terms of social issues, the raging controversy over the Arizona border laws is providing more than enough ammunition for Republicans in key districts.
“The Arizona immigration law is there, there’s no reason to be raising an issue of gay rights” as a wedge, he said.
The anxiety people feel over the loss of job security has been channeled by right-wing politicians into fear of the alien other. This is normal in a time of economic stress, when people want to blame someone and opportunists will always go out and find a punching bag for that express purpose.
You see both parties succumb to this. Instead of dealing intelligently with our immigration problem, Democrats hastily passed a border security bill in the Senate that gives in to the worst impulses of the nativist wing of the country. You can see it in the record amount of deportations under President Obama. Democrats across the board have sought to prove their “toughness” by taking it out on vulnerable members of society.
But that apparently has its limits. The President is not targeting undocumented students, an outcome which could lead to a more humane policy in this area.
The Obama administration, while deporting a record number of immigrants convicted of crimes, is sparing one group of illegal immigrants from expulsion: students who came to the United States without papers when they were children.
In case after case where immigrant students were identified by federal agents as being in the country illegally, the students were released from detention and their deportations were suspended or canceled, lawyers and immigrant advocates said. Officials have even declined to deport students who openly declared their illegal status in public protests.
The students who have been allowed to remain are among more than 700,000 illegal immigrants who would be eligible for legal status under a bill before Congress specifically for high school graduates who came to the United States before they were 16. Department of Homeland Security officials said they had made no formal change of policy to permit those students to stay. But they said they had other, more pressing deportation priorities.
It’s true that the federal government does not have unlimited resources to deport every undocumented person in the country. But this line-drawing at the level of students should lead to passage of the DREAM Act. A failure to enforce can only go so far. These students want to contribute to America in a positive way, and current law will not allow it. They had no say in the matter to come to this country, and they shouldn’t be punished for the sins of others. Close to 700,000 students would become eligible for citizenship status under the new policy. It’s the right thing to do.
Until we actually start creating jobs, the xenophobia won’t go away. In the meantime, we can put together a humane and simple policy that would at least bring the next generation into the fold.





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Can you please define what that is exactly? I’m not being snarky, I really do not know what this problem is specifically. People throw that term around as if we all know what it means and I don’t.
Actually…
… pretty much covers it.
AGAIN – deporting illegals is NOT about hating brown people. I live in the Southwest and love the food, culture and people.
But as the economy shrinks – americans are being squeezed even as illegals are getting subsidy. I can’t go to the emergency room … I can’t get scholarships for my kids… and the ladies who clean the state house have a pension!!
Sorry… the left will not hold the VAST MIDDLE if they continue the anti American policies.
I am a former Perot voter… voted Carter before that.. never cast a vote for a Bush, but I’m very unhappy with Obama… he promised illegals would be returned to their home countries… fined and put at the end of the line.
He lied… just like the GOP before him. He lied about ending the war…
so when do we get a hero?
HOw about demanding that the wars end or that rich people actually pay taxes. Let’s stop the corporations from making billions and giving nothing back. We need to create jobs for all. We don’t need to kick the least among us.
There are no heros. It is we, the people, who are responsible for how things operate.
Again, you engage in the class war by complaining about janitors, who pay into their state pension system from their salaries, getting a pension. The janitors are not the problem.
The bigger issues are the war, as a prior commenter says, and the untold billions that it is costing us to wage this exercise in death and futility. Bush & Cheney lied to us about the weapons of mass destruction and they lied about how much this was costing us. Tax cuts for billionaires also contributed to the deficit.
IMO, these are the real issues. Allowing yourself to be distracted by complaining about the paltry pensions of janitors is allowing yourself to be “gamed” by the same billionaires who are responsible for the issues that concern you.
Give the Republicans a few days to start calling him liberal over it, that’ll change.
Fixed it. And the subject should be coming up on Glenn Beck’s show very soon, complete with a perfect diagram carefully sketched onto his crazy board. “Isn’t it obvious what’s happening here?”
Thanks. I was applying for a job at the time and couldn’t take the time to go into detail. :)
How does the GOP get it both ways. They use illegal immigrants to scare the unemployed (BTW, I’m not applying for that job raking yard waste) and THEN they call those on unemployment ‘lazy’ for not finding a job. I just went back to work after a 6 month period of unemployment. I looked every day, applied for jobs in my field but well below what I made in my last job. My only criteria were I didn’t have to move and I can pay my bills. I got the first and I will be able to do the second, but I am going to have to self subsidize with my savings if anything major breaks.
Somebody explain to me how the GOP came to own all the Teflon(R) in Washington.
I’m not buying the “lazy unemployed” either. At least not wide spread. I do know one union painter who is glad to be laid off several times a year to take it easy. His girlfriend owns a dairy employing dozens of workers. He could get a job anytime he wanted, but preferred the time off (and didn’t want that type of work, which I don’t blame him for that).
But I don’t believe that’s the case for most unemployed. Intentionally sitting on the sidelines would hurt their careers in so many ways I don’t see how they could justify it.
Immigrants have zero, zero, to do with the shrinking economy, the plight of the middle class, and the failures of government to provide a stable basis for a healthy economy, a real social safety net, and a prosperous middle class.
Blaming immigrants will do nothing to fix any problem we currently have, because they have nothing to do with it.
David Dayen has a fresh cross-post available: Verizon and Google Announce Joint Broadband Policy
Hey, I’m just here to help… ;-)
Read up on “The Chinese Expulsion Act of 1882″ signed into law by President Chester A. Arthur on May 8,1882.
WOP? Has a pretty good pedigree in the race relations area.
Like the lazy, blood sucking gov’t workers, the lazy, blood-sucking unemployed, plus the lazy, blood-sucking illegals are all constructs ginned up by the corporate elite to pit the “small people” against one another.
Sure, I can point out waste and name names of gov’t employees who are lazy and “gaming” the system. I can do the same with private sector employees, too.
Same goes with the unemployed. I do happen to know one person who truly is a “lazy unemployed” person, who hasn’t much been looking for jobs and is pretty happy to get “free money” (his term). I don’t like this anymore than the next person, but there are always freeloaders in any system. Big deal. Get over it. The vast, vast majority of unemployed are not like this; they lost their jobs and there’s few around to get.
As with all of this, the truly lazy unemployed (like the person I know) are not the problem. Annoying as they are, they hardly make a difference. Follow the money, please. The real issue are the corporate elites who have not paid their fair share in years, and they know it.
That is complete bullshit.
Speaking of illegal immigrant students:
Students here illegally can qualify for in-state tuition, but children of citizens have to pay much higher out-of-state tuition rates. You’re a citizen of the U.S. who lives in New Jersey but who wants to go to UCLA, you gotta pay much higher tuition than a CA student here illegally.
How’s that for ridiculous?
Immigrants are responsible for NAFTA and every other free trade agreement? And the repeal of Glass Steagal? And the Bankruptcy Bill? And Credit Default Swaps? And Collateralized Debt Obligations? And the collapse of the housing market? And TARP? And the Health Insurance Reform bill? And the billion$ in cash that’s disappeared in Iraq? And the cost of both wars — with vast infinite sums going into private corporate hands? And the Sovereign Default Commission? And…
Busy, aren’t they?
No doubt they also are the ones to blame for the creation of our shiny new surveillance state as well, complete with Naked Girly Machines at our airports. Good to know. Thanks.
What is it about in-state and out-of-state tuition that you don’t understand? Is it the bit where state taxes are used to support state institutions of higher education? The idea that if the residents of a state pay taxes to support their state-wide university system that the children residing in the state ought to get a break? It’s not that hard to understand really.
Meanwhile reading that Hoover’s response included a war on Mexicans in this country – toss the Mexicans out and folks have jobs again – does sound familiar doesn’t it?
Hoover began his program under then current law as an enforcement with at least 345,839 people going to Mexico from 1930 to 1935, with 1931 as the peak year, per a 1936 dispatch from the U.S. Consulate General in Mexico City. Some say a million – others say 2 million – left, by order or voluntarily, by 1939, with Mexico not objecting, with 60% estimated to be children born in the US and therefore citizens who would be allowed to live here but only after they were adults. FDR did not stop the enforcement although he did de-emphasize it.
Here’s what you said in your previous post. (Emphasis added.)
It’s not that illegal immigrants had anything to do with parts — parts — the items you mentioned. But they are part of the blame for other parts of those items. For example:
“a stable basis for a healthy economy” — Illegal forcing down wages and shoving out citizens in construction doesn’t impact a “healthy economy” or a “prosperous middle class”? Before you answer, remember that housing was the lynchpin of the economy. New housing starts and remodeling went in the tank, the economy followed.
As for NAFTA: Even considering the impact of US corn exports on the Mexican farm economy, it seems to me that Mexicans, in some ways, got the best of both worlds and we got the worst. Mexicans got all those US factories that relocated south of the border, and still got to send millions of illegal immigrants north to take advantage of our economy and social services.
Except, of course, for the illegals who work off the books, for cash, and don’t pay taxes to the state.
Besides that, it’s the idea that someone who is here illegally — illegally — has more rights than a citizen (whether native born or naturalized). In fact, a naturalized citizen who went through all the arduous steps to come here as a legal immigrant and then went through the effort to become a citizen has fewer rights in this situation than someone who’s here illegally.
Also, you fail to mention how much money state universities get from the Federal government via Pell Grants, federally-insured student loans, research grants, etc. (Or from endowments, which often come from alumni who live out-of-state.)
In addition, the famous Title IX that resulted in the female college athletes receiving fair treatment gets its teeth from the fact that schools that receive federal funds must comply. If Penn State and Nebraska and LSU and UCLA weren’t getting federal funds, these schools wouldn’t have to comply with Title IX and wouldn’t be fielding national championship women’s sports teams in volleyball, basketball, softball, etc.
As papau helpfully noted, even if you got your heart’s desire and sent every last immigrant packing, it wouldn’t solve your problems. None of them. The problems arise from federal and corporate policies.
Forcing wages down happens when you don’t have effective collective bargaining. That came along courtesy of the labor movement, which has been quite effectively sidelined since the Reagan era (federal policy to blame). There was a time when citizens were routinely screwed by corporate policy — remember scrip and company stores, no minimum wage, child labor, etc.? Citizenship doesn’t save you in the absence of federal law. Indeed government oversight has been so lax a bunch of West Virginian miners got killed at work. They were citizens.
As for manufacturing, you need to cast your net way wider than Mexico (I really don’t get the Mexican fixation — this is the second time it’s cropped up today, there are immigrants here from all over the world, but I digress). How about steel? High tech? Manufacturing jobs were the bread and butter of our middle class and they’ve been shipped overseas. Why? Because the federal government has a tax code and import policies that made it profitable. You could send every single immigrant home and it won’t bring those jobs back.
As for your higher ed comment, you will forgive me I hope for pointing out that what you want is for your hypothetical student to get something for nothing — the exact sort of thing you blame your mythical immigrant for. Some states invest heavily in higher education, others don’t. Maybe if you want a top notch public university in your state you should lobby your state legislature and governor.
Except that they do pay taxes.
They pay sales taxes
They pay gasoline taxes
If they smoke, they pay cigarette taxes
They pay excise taxes.
Etc
Etc
Etc
I live in California, thank you very much. We have an excellent state university system (UC Berkeley, UCLA, UCSB, etc). The system if further buttressed by a large, high-quality Cal State state college system and one of the biggest junior college systems in the country.
Besides, your imply that the only motivation for a student to go out of state is to get a better education than that offered by his/her home state public universities. More bullshit. Ever heard of “majors”? Hate to break it to you, but not every state university offers all the same specialized programs. Not every state has a university with a nuclear medicine lab.
Or, if you want to study oceanography, your changes of finding that kind of program are much better in one of the coastal states than say, Nebraska. Forestry? Probably eaiser to find that kind of program in a state with lots of forests than Oklahoma. Maybe space technology? How about California or Texas universities with access to NASA facilities and adjunct professors from NASA and aerospace companies?
And what about small states? Students in Delaware or Rhode Island or the Dakotas, Montana, etc.? Universities in those states simply don’t have the revenue base to offer as many majors as Michigan or California or Texas/
But no income tax and no property taxes, which are the biggest sources of government revenue.
Nice try, though.
Absolutely untrue. I’m just saying that a citizen or legal resident shouldn’t have to pay more money to attend a school in an adjacent state than someone who is here illegally.
Well, I don’t pay property taxes since I don’t own any property (although I do assume that the property taxes are factored into the rent). And different states have different property tax rules – some states the property taxes fund most education while not so much in other states. Which is why those states are often now operating under court orders to make their education funding more equitable.
And I think you’ll find in reality that as many people working undocumented jobs do receive pay checks with taxes and fica withheld as not.
And that doesn’t say anything about all the folks who are citizens who work off the books and don’t pay those same taxes as well, and there are most likely as many of them as there are undocumented immigrants working off the books.
But of course, they’re not the folks you seem to despise so much so you discount their existence I’m sure.
On these points you’re absolutely 100% correct, and I support your position.
However, it’s disingenuous to claim that illegal immigrants don’t add to those problems, or create other problems that are part of the larger mosaic of problems facing us.
There’s also the problem of believing that economic growth will solve everything. In fact, it’s just the opposite. Without real immigration reform that cuts off the ability of other illegals to come here, economic growth still has two huge problems:
a) It attracts even more illegals. Isn’t the argument, “if they can’t find jobs they won’t come here”? Well, absent real immigration reform, when the economy picks up it will just be a magnet for more illegal immigration.
b) The greater problem is the notion of perpetual growth. We have to come to terms with the concept of limitations, a planet-sustaining rather than planet depleting economic system. If growth was the solution, we’d have grown ourselves to utopia long ago. “Growth” is part of the canard foisted on us by the corporate globalizers.
Presumably an undocumented immigrant attending an out-of-state school would be subject to the same tuition as their documented neighbor heading off to the same out-of-state institution.
I am not sure that you are correct about the tax issue either. Property taxes are assessed on the owners of property as recorded in the tax assessors office. Also, large corporations hire undocumented workers, presumably with fake ids, but still taxes will be withheld.
And finally immigration has been much higher in the past than it is now. I linked this earlier (twice now in fact), but evidently, it is still worthwhile. I highly recommend that you read all three parts linked in my earlier comment. Your hostility towards immigrants is nothing new. Yet somehow we have survived it quite nicely for centuries. Some us were even taught in grade school to be quite proud of our melting pot country.
One last point, I never asserted that growth is required for anything much less as a solution to “everything”. Our current economic model is unsustainable. We need to find away to move from the current quarterly growth demanded by Wall Street to a sustainable equilibrium model. Since we can’t even manage to restore Glass-Steagal, I won’t exactly be holding my breath for that transition. Nonetheless, packing off people you are convinced are getting free handouts that you might be missing out on won’t change the growth/equilibrium condition either.
That’s not the issue. The issue is, a legal resident citizen from state A has to pay more tuition to attend a state university in state B than an illegal resident of state B. So, a talented student from Nevada or Arizona who wants to study oceanography at UC San Diego’s Scripps School of Oceanography has to pay more tuition than a California illegal immigrant attending that or another Calif state college/university. That’s fundamentally wrong. No illegal immigrant should get preferential treatment over citizens and legal residents. Simple.
Also, we need immigrants to replace the workers who are not being born to citizens (birth rate is down). This will help the “social security problem”. So, let those undoc students stay!
That’s illogical. How can you have 20 million folks illegaly enter a country and not have an effect on the economy, wages, educational opportunities and healthcare of the actual citizenry.
That literally doesn’t make sense. How could it???
Here is in interesting story; seems like we have Californian grown tea partiers:
http://cbs2.com/local/Hemet.couple.charged.2.1847458.html
Hemet Couple Pleads Not Guilty To Fake Deportation
HEMET, Calif. (AP) ―
I generally agree with you V, but not on this. Here’s why….. the kids don’t make the decision to come here illegally. That’s made by the parents, and frequently when the children are very young. They are Americans in every way possible except legally. They aren’t going to be deported, because it’s inhumane to send them back to somewhere that they don’t even know. So then we have a person in our country who has the needs/wants of all adults…e.g. financial security, a family, to travel, health/happines……and no legal way to achieve that. It’s an enforced criminality, and that’s a rough way to make someone start off their life. They live here, they ain’t leavin, mine as well let them get educated, make them legal, help them be productive, tax paying members of the group. The more educated, happy, healthy, goal driven people we have in this country, the better off we all are. Those kinds of people are much less inclined to have lots of babies out of wedlock, commit crimes, take drugs/drink, blah blah blah.
It’s a choice. What kind of society do we want?
The issue is you want something for free. You want a discount on tuition at a state school underwritten by the tax payers of another state. And it galls you that an undocumented student might get in-state tuition in a state where they live if mommy and daddy get paid under the table and live in a tent under a bridge.
However, if an undocumented working parent owns property, then I’m pretty sure they pay taxes on it and if they work for a company that does withholding, then what is your problem? It isn’t preferential treatment for them to pay in-state tuition just like their documented class-mates.
By your logic citizens growing up in rental units (whose parents don’t pay property tax) with an income sufficiently low that they get a tax refund shouldn’t get in-state tuition either. Whatever.
Maybe we should make college edumacations free like in many European countries. Or at least make the student loans reasonable.
Wouldn’t that be something : )
Imagine what we could do in this country if we decided to stop blowing up brown people, mothballed our vast imperial outposts, and told the government to get its prying nose out of our skivvies at the airports and our emails and phone calls at home ; )
Who knows maybe someday we could even get decent healthcare ; )
I’m jumping in here late, and not following the thread on this Mary. But…..I think that’s a jolly great idea. If not free, atleast reasonable, and yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to reasonable student loans. My kid went to private undergrad in VA because they gave her a 60,000.00 scholarship. (made it cheaper than for her to go to school here in CA, where she was accepted to several UC’s) I paid for all her travel, books, odds and ends, ins, spedning money, etc. But she still had to take out about 30,000.00 in loans for tuition/room expenses! That’s alot of money for someone young and fresh out of school. She taught high school math for 3 yrs, and they don’t pay shit. Now she’s in nursing school and has to take out more student loans. We have a HUGE, ENORMOUS shortage of nurses in this country. It’s actually a problem. My kid is smart, has a math degree, and has done all of her pre-med reqs…..you’d think the govt would be interested in cutting her a bit of slack as she wants to fulfill a much needed void in our medical industry. Grrrrrr……….. this has nothing to do with illegal immigration, just a hearty yes to structural changes in our education/cost/loan/medical industries. She was going to go to med school but couldn’t stand the thought of having a couple hundred THOUSAND dollars in student loans, so stopped. Smart kids of all races/creeds/colors should be heartily encouraged in all manner possible to achieve big goals like this. We really don’t emphasize what is important in our society.
Plus, people wouldn’t feel they were losing so much if education was reasonable. My oldest owes $140,000 for a masters in Chinese Med. and Acupuncture. My youngest owes $45,000 for a masters in nursing. sucks.
When my mom went to nursing school in the 1940s the government paid for it. All she had to do was promise to work as a nurse for 6 months. She worked for 40 years. She figured the government got their money’s worth : )
It is amazing what a society can do, when it chooses to.
That’s a lotta dough! But what an awesome field to have a degree in. I always tackle body issues alternatively first….if that doesn’t fly, then see my doc. So does your oldest have their own practice, or???? Does the other one like nursing?
Amy graduates in Dec. and will start practice in March after the boards for acupuncture. She will be a primary care provider. Sara loves being a nurse in the ICU. (Their dad was a doc)
Amazing.
My kid is doing a pgm done jointly thru a hospital in VA and the local community college. If she finishes school, and is willing to work at that hospital for 4 yrs, they give her a substantial discount on her tuition bill. Not a bad deal really. We looked for med school deals like that and they are few and far between. We looked at her going to Osteopath school in KY and they deducted about 50% of the tuition bill if you practice for 5 yrs in remote rural areas of the State!!! But she’s a CA girl, so wasn’t willing to do that. :)
That’s great. You must be REALLY proud of them both. :)
I think you’ve — and phred — have missed my point. If we’re going to allow illegal immigrant students to attend public universities, the least we can do is charge them the same high out-of-state tuition that we charge actual citizen students.
In addition to the tuition issue, there is the capacity issue. Every year qualified citizens students are turned away from state universities because of capacity limitations. Every illegal immigrant child in a state university is potentially taking a spot away from a citizen student or a student who is here as a legal alien.
The quote from Mr. King in the article says not one word about “brown people”. As for “demonizing”, it’s hardly “demonizing” to be angry at people who break the law, several laws in fact, as illegal aliens do.
And “dream on”. The Dream Act won’t pass this year anymore than it has in past years. Illegal alien “students” are taking seats away from American students and legal foreign students, which they would do more of if legalized. Furthermore, legalization would give them access to both financial aid and better jobs, both of which are already in short supply for American students. Fact is, if illegal alien “students” want to study here, they’d better plan on returning to their home countries before age 18 1/2 and applying for a student visa.
The “least among us” shouldn’t BE “among us” at all. That’s the point about illegal immigration.
The billionaires are also a major factor behind illegal immigration. Think the Democratic elite would be backing amnesty if George Soros weren’t a major backer of the party?
Quite, quite WRONG. You’ll notice that corporations are doing very well. Lots of money in the bank, money which some of them got by keeping costs low through hiring illegal aliens, depressing wages with them, and getting rid of citizen workers. You’ll also note that illegal aliens hold 5-7 million jobs in this country while 20 million Americans are out of work. And these are jobs that Americans will do and are doing from working at Target or UPS to construction. The Pew Hispanic Center finds that 83% of construction jobs are held by LEGAL workers. You might note that Americans aren’t buying because consumer confidence is low, and consumer confidence is low because of the threat of job loss. Those of us who have jobs are also subsidizing illegal aliens as well as our own unemployed with our tax dollars.
Furthermore, the subprime meltdown has been a major factor in our economic woes. And yes, illegal aliens play a role in that–the Hispanic Caucus and other ethnic identity groups pushed for aid to “minorities” to increase home ownership. What materialized was subprime loans to people, including illegal aliens, who didn’t have to prove income or legal status to buy homes and who bought more home than they could afford. It’s no accident that the main route for Hispanics to buy houses has been subprime loans, and that the Hispanic rate of default on mortgages exceeds other groups–or that the major areas with foreclosures are in illegal-alien-heavy “sand” states such as California.
Not to mention that LEGAL foreign students pay full freight and jump through immigration hoops to come here. Why should illegal aliens get exempted from this?
All creeds and races, yes. BUT NOT ILLEGAL ALIENS. If they want to get an education, then they can either return to their home countries to get it (after all, many AMERICAN kids go offshore to get medical degrees) or apply to come here LEGALLY as students. Fact is, seats in our medical and nursing schools are in short supply. We do NOT need to hand them out to illegal aliens. There are also plenty of LEGAL foreign students and medical professionals willing to come here LEGALLY through the existing visa programs. There is no need to subsidize illegal aliens. And by the way, would you really trust as a doctor or nurse someone who had been willing to break the law, several laws, because it suited him or her?
Americans who break our laws are “family”. We’re stuck with them. We are NOT “stuck” with illegal aliens. We do NOT need to add any more slackers, liars, cheats, or fraudsters. We have enough of our own without taking in the trash from the rest of the world. And the illegal aliens who do “work hard” or are good students are needed far more by their home countries than they are by us.
Nope, our birthrate is just fine. We’re above replacement level, 2.1, and would be without immigration. We do NOT “need” uneducated unskilled non English speaking illegal aliens OR their children. If we do need immigrants, then we should choose skilled educated LEGAL ones whom we do NOT need to subsidize. As it is, trying to provide bilingual educations and healthcare for illegal aliens and their kids shifts resources from our own kids and our own elderly to illegal aliens. Should illegal aliens be legalized, they would bankrupt SS all the quicker.
You forgot to mention that many illegal aliens live in single family homes that are rented out illegally to several others–and that “property taxes” come nowhere near to covering the costs of the services that these illegal aliens use. For that matter, you can bet the homeowner doesn’t pay taxes on that income either.
The fact that you can’t use the legally correct term, illegal aliens, and to pretend that they’re “immigrants” or “undocumented immigrants” says worlds about your viewpoint. Doesn’t matter if they pay taxes or not–they’re here illegally and should not be entitled to college education at our expense.
If it’s “inhumane” to send the kids back to a country they don’t know, then it was “inhumane” to bring them here, to a country they didn’t know, in the first place. Maybe the parents should be charged with child abuse?
Fact is, these “kids” AND their families should return to their home countries. Too bad the parents miscalculated, but that’s their problem. No reason why we should give amnesty to the kids who could then turn around and amnesty the parents. And at age 18, the decision to remain here illegally does belong to the kids. Furthermore, many illegal aliens come here when they’re well into their teens and are well aware of the illegality of their parents’ act–and their own.
Try telling the IRS that you didn’t pay federal taxes because you paid all the taxes you mention. That’ll get you a nice fine and probably a prison sentence. Think Obama will amnesty you for that?
Actually, ILLEGAL ALIENS and immigrants are a major factor in the subprime meltdown, since subprime mortgages were developed specifically to expand home ownership among minorities, including illegal aliens and immigrants.
As papau helpfully noted, even if you got your heart’s desire and sent every last immigrant packing, it wouldn’t solve your problems. None of them. The problems arise from federal and corporate policies.
Forcing wages down happens when you don’t have effective collective bargaining. That came along courtesy of the labor movement, which has been quite effectively sidelined since the Reagan era (federal policy to blame). There was a time when citizens were routinely screwed by corporate policy — remember scrip and company stores, no minimum wage, child labor, etc.? Citizenship doesn’t save you in the absence of federal law. Indeed government oversight has been so lax a bunch of West Virginian miners got killed at work. They were citizens.
———–A big factor in helping keep wages down has been the record amount of immigration both legal and illegal. You’re right, citizenship and legal status don’t matter. It’s the sheer NUMBER of workers available that does that, and illegal immigration adds to the labor supply, weakening the ability of unions to negotiate better wages and working conditions. Cesar Chavez knew this when he was organizing the UFW and opposed illegal immigration. You might also note that Alan Greenspan pushed for more immigration when he was chairman of the Fed specifically to KEEP WAGES DOWN.
As for manufacturing, you need to cast your net way wider than Mexico (I really don’t get the Mexican fixation — this is the second time it’s cropped up today, there are immigrants here from all over the world, but I digress). How about steel? High tech? Manufacturing jobs were the bread and butter of our middle class and they’ve been shipped overseas. Why? Because the federal government has a tax code and import policies that made it profitable. You could send every single immigrant home and it won’t bring those jobs back.
———–There are immigrants from all over the world, but Mexico alone accounts for 15-20% of our LEGAL immigration and probably almost all of the illegal immigration in AZ. Note that NAFTA shipped many of those jobs to MEXICO and we were promised that that would improve the jobs situation there so that illegal immigration would decrease. What a lie. And now, Mexicans claim that because NAFTA make it easier for American farmers to undercut Mexican farmers, we should accept their displaced agricultural workers. Even though OUR government provided training for OUR displaced workers, Mexico doesn’t want to deal with theirs. Note also—illegal alien farm workers are a further SUBSIDY to U.S. farmers enabling them to undercut Mexican farmers.
As for your higher ed comment, you will forgive me I hope for pointing out that what you want is for your hypothetical student to get something for nothing — the exact sort of thing you blame your mythical immigrant for. Some states invest heavily in higher education, others don’t. Maybe if you want a top notch public university in your state you should lobby your state legislature and governor.
————-Difference is, our hypothetical student is an American. He’s “family”. The illegal alien is NOT. Doesn’t matter if his family or he himself “pays taxes”. He’s NOT owed the rights and benefits that go to citizens or even legal residents. If he wants to go to college here, then he pays full-freight, just as foreign students do. By circumventing the process to become part of this society, he is owed nothing.
And it worked, too–along with WWII.