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RJ Eskow reported yesterday on a rumored deal coming out of the deficit commission on Social Security. It sounds like a really bad version of progressive price indexing, where benefits are cut for the vast majority of beneficiaries while they are raised slightly for those at the lowest income. This will be pitched as “saving” Social Security by cutting it for almost everyone, and will turn it into more of a welfare program than a social insurance program into which everybody pays.
The new proposal would pit middle-class seniors against the elderly poor, forcing them to compete for a stripped-down pool of dollars. The end result would be the one that many Commission members have pursued for years: to cut the most stable and successful program in the Federal government’s history.
Accounts of this pending deal come from the top-secret, behind-a-firewall, inside-the-Cone-of-Silence proceedings of the Commission itself, which is why they can’t be officially confirmed. (Remind me again: Why are such critical issues being debated in secret, only to be presented to Congress for ratification after the November elections?) But if these reports are correct — and there is good reason to believe they are — some members of the Commission presumably believe this strategy would confuse and divide the many Americans who oppose Social Security cuts, while defusing the growing resistance to their actions among progressive members of Congress.
I don’t know that this would defuse the resistance. The problem with getting this done is that you would be cutting benefits for the people most likely to vote, including people making as little as $30,000 a year, if you’re actually going to get the savings necessary to make any kind of difference. That’s never going to fly with the public or politicians, no matter progressive or otherwise. We know from polling that massive majorities oppose such an action, and giving more to people at the low end of the income scale will probably not help that at all. And just look at this incredible race down in Mississippi, where both the conservative Democrat and the conservative Republican are in agreement on resisting all benefit cuts:
Dueling news conferences brought U.S. Rep. Travis Childers and challenger Alan Nunnelee together today, figuratively, to oppose privatization of Social Security.
Childers, D-Booneville, was first up to bat, signing a pledge to protect Social Security from the Wall Street barons “who got us into this financial mess.”
A few minutes later, Republican Nunnelee of Tupelo echoed the pledge and also challenged Childers to reconsider repealing the nation’s new health care law [...]
At his news conference, Nunnelee said he decided “months ago” to oppose privatization.
They also oppose raising the retirement age and cutting benefits or raising taxes.
They basically oppose doing anything to the program. And there’s going to be a tremendous amount of inertia in that direction. But a pledge from a Republican in a competitive race to oppose benefit cuts basically makes it impossible for the Cat Food Commission to carry out their plans. If you think there’s resistance among Republicans for raising the payroll tax cap (and there is, of course, though the support in the country is substantial), wait until you see EVERYONE revolt when you try to cut benefits for 75-80% of the population. And administrative costs for determining someone’s income (would it be average income, or income in their last five years, or what?) would eat up much of the savings anyway.
Social Security’s simplicity is part of its virtue: you pay in, you get a defined monthly benefit out. Trying to mess with that using indexing will fail.
UPDATE: By the way, here are the latest co-signers to the Progressive Caucus’ letter against any cuts to Social Security:
Conyers, Courtney, Edwards (MD), Filner, Grijalva, Hinchey, Hirono, Lee (CA) Kaptur, Kilroy, Kissell, Maffei, Meek, Neal, Pingree, Shea Porter, Thompson (MS), Woolsey
I would have thought they would have more than 18 members by now, but some of those names (Kissell, Kilroy) are interesting.
…I’m hearing it’s up to 24 signatures now.
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Quit fantasizing about the Catfood Commission suggestions being defeated. It’s going to be a done deal, with critical votes coming from retired or defeated lame duck Copngresscritters.
Get used to the screwing, because it’s coming. H.L. Mencken once said that “Democracy is the theory that the public deserves to determine the kind of government it wants, and then gets it…high and hard.”
We’re about to get it high and hard.
Why does a commission chartered with looking for ways to cut the deficit insist on doing ANYTHING with social security when social security is forbidden by law to ever contribute to the deficit?
Answer: Because Obama created this commission for the express purpose of cutting social security and naming the commission honestly was deemed politically unwise.
You believe Alan Nunnelee???
This guy is one of the masterminds of Mississipi’s notorious Medicaid purge that switched 65,000 impoverished “dual-eligibles” from Medicaid to Medicare.
Medicaid is a program designed for poor people. It has very low out of pocket costs. Medicare is a program designed for the aged and disabled. It has significant premiums and out of pocket costs. For poor people Medicare equals no care.
What did Nunnelee have to say for himself? He said people could call around to see what charity services might be available. He said he and his fellow Republicans were committed to not raising taxes.
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript329_full.html
fyi – Eskow story, Jane reminded me this is the Diamond/Orszag Plan WH has pushed since early 09
and thanks for the MS story, David.
hellll-o, McFly !
Isn’t that the whole point, to get recipients and progressives more generally to be distracted by fighting amongst each other while the rug is being pulled out from under all of them?
And to show everyone, once again, who really matters.
Unusual to have Miss. be the model for anything….Nice. Surely there is a way this can be beaten. That’s the hope thing for ya.
Yep. We can’t be reminded too often.
For some reason people in Miss tend to live into their 80s and 90s. I wouldn’t want to be the Congress person who voted to cut their SS.
It is the greens and chicken fried steak and liver smothered in onions.
You have that right. There are business schools that teach how to keep the masses fighting among themselves so that they do not gang up on the corporation.
Yep. And the grits. :)
Real grits, not that ole instant crap you have to buy in CA.
The reason for the attack on SS is simple. It defies the first rule of politics; You need to have situations where benefits are concentrated and costs diffused. Only this creates a situation where the beneficiaries are willing to fund the politicians do do the looting.
The central role of government is the looting of the governed, what’s the point of that if it’s the governed who get the loot?
The Catfood Commissions report is due December 1st.
That’s also World AIDS Day,
Portugal’s Independence Day,
And the 55th anniversary of Rosa Park’s arrest.
Sounds to me like we should add Washington Pitchforks & Torches Day to the history books.
Great Article: How to Steal $2.5 Trillion
It’s pretty much the whole history of the theft/use of this fund for purposes other than what it was set up for.
This really puts the lie to Obama’s “new populism” in the year of election.
F him.
But I WILL vote because the republican running for governor of my state is a vampire. and it’s not my Rep I want to get rid of, it’s my senator and he is not up for re-election. there are a # of local issues for me as well.
Only way we can keep security in the social security is keeping it as it is.
If the worlds richest man want to gets social security and applies for it by going to the social security office he should get it same as everybody.
The goal of this deficit commission remains the same. Do not touch deficit issues but gut social security. Path they chose is change it to entitlement by putting a grading so that wall street percentage of people money and influence increases and gut it in a generation. So the game plan now looks like changed a little bit. Democrats acting like compassionate bunch do this grading when the fact is everybody is saving into the common system. Then they leave it to Republicans to gut it out in a generation and then act surprised.
Then wall street will enter and say it needs a bailout by crashing the market. Since the middle class income have their savings wiped out in the market we know this time around they have the real Depression card unlike two years back they bluffed big time and made big bailout bucks.
Social Security makes our economy depression proof. Nothing wall street or for that matter anybody could do to put our economy into depression mode
Only way congress can keep it as it is, is by getting into grid-lock and doing nothing. Everything else is nothing but bait and switch. That way they can say to their children that they did the best possible thing to safe-guard their futures.
Never skip voting. We put proportionately large amount of our earnings as taxes. If we do not choose right guardians for it by making the best choice to our conscience then we are not doing our part and we will never be counted and these kind of regressive tax schemes will continue unabated till every one starts finding ways to skip and then they introduce mother of all taxes called VAT taxes where we do not even know we are being taxed which hits the poorest most and our standard of living decreases collectively. Then we are officially a Third world country.
It is like that scene in “A Christmas Carol” where the shareholders find out that the company has been embezzled from, and Scrooge and his partner offer to hide the malfeasance in exchange for having the company turned over to them. Reprieved!
I recall quite a few Union presidents going to jail for dipping into their member’s pension funds. Why is it any different when the gov does it to us?
SS is, for many, the only thing they have left. Please read that article I posted at #16. It’s a killer diller.
“We put DIS-proportionately large amount of our earnings as taxes.”
fixed it for you ;^)
Fanned…………ummmmmmmm ( not on HP)
Cutting benefits for the middle class to skew the program towards the poor is political suicide and will kill both the party and Social Security. Have you ever met a middle class senior who considers himself a welfare recipient? Social Security works precisely because the middle class believes they have earned every cent whether they have or not. Once they get the idea that their payroll tax is going to someone else, the program will die. That is exactly what the Republicans want.
Yep.
I’d be up for a Pitchforks and Torches month in Washington, and at every campaign stop of every Congresscritter up for election, leading right up to the election.
Agreed. I’ve a great fork I use to turn my compost. Anyone have a bus or two?
Let’s steer away from this line of argument please.
“Social Security works precisely because the middle class believes they have earned every cent whether they have or not.”
Everyone has “earned” their SS irrespective of what class they are in. SS was set up to be like a pension where you get to take out after you’ve put in. Means testing SS would completely change the nature of SS and along with that put SS in threat of not existing since then it would be classified as “welfare” and be open to attack…you’ll then have the middle and upper classes be more hostile to SS rather than supportive since those groups will have either nothing or little to lose.
Great article, David. Great thread.
I wish I had a suggestion on how to stop Obama, but he has set it up so his finger prints are hidden ans we must depend on non-blue dog Dems in the Senate – and they did not show backbone on the public option, and after Nov there will be fewer of them – but I hope at least 41 will remain that have a spine.
Fine, everyone should vote, but only for those that sign the SS pledge.
Sorry but,
ha ha, you got fooled again. You is fool. Rich boss smarter than you!!
Zappa says
“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable
to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes
to expensive to maintain they will just take down the scenery, they
will remove the tables and chairs out of the way and you will
see the brick wall at the back of the stage.”
Many already see the brick wall, others should at least be
seeing the tables and chairs being removed.
It is called AUSTERITY, you or no lawmaker has any power over this.
http://www.alternet.org/story/148100/don%27t_cut_social_security%2C_double_it/
this will get no consideration because it makes sense….sad to say
The Democrats could stop the Republicans from destroying Social Security if they weren’t cowards. They will not challenge the Republicans on anything.
I’m 74 and I can still remember the old “County Poor House” in our County. It was a horrible looking building. The building had little windows, and in the summertime you could see the elderly just setting and staring out the windows. Some would be out in the field hoeing the crops in the rock hard ground.
Remember “The Death Panels and pulling the plug on Granny?”
If the Democrats would just show a picture of a County Poor House with the caption “The Republicans want to send Grandma and Grandpa to the “County Poor House,” by taking away their Social Security every month they could stop it. Senior citizens are a big voting block.
I wrote to my Senator and ask her if she would use this plan and it went right over head, all she told me all about her voting record on Social Security.
The Obama force saw the “country poor house” coming and added a slight increase in benefits for those at the very bottom – so the 1 million seniors now in poverty may get 10 dollars more a month, while the rest of the Social Security population falls into poverty.
It is a classic Obama “I got the best I could” – forgetting that doing nothing – no change – as in health care reform without a public option – is a better option. The benefit cut is not that much different than the trust running out and then paying out as a pay as you go plan in 2037 – but this is an immediate cut that will delay the use of trust funds – and that was always the game. It is the 2 year increase in retirement age 14% reduction but rather than being phased in beginning in 2025, it is phased in beginning tomorrow (2012)
I’m 50, and it is funny how numb I am –
I’ll ALWAYS vote,
I’ll NEVER vote for some Raygun-Cheny fascist stooge or Raygun wannabee,
I’ll STOP voting for the $ell out$ and political incompetents calling themselves Democrats – fuck ‘em. I’ll vote for “me” or “you” or “my big toe” …
Given that, in every election, MORE skip voting than vote for any candidate, let the $ell out$ and incompetents get elected with that fascist defined “middle” and those right wing defined “independents”!!
funny how on kos THE FIGHT is blaming FDLers & DFHs for being “Nadarites”
funny how the lackeys to the DCL scum sell outs, the DLC scum sell outs, AND those who don’t know what I’m talking about – funny how all 3 groups of toadies BLAME the DFHs & Nadar for wrecking their $ell out fanta$ie$, BUT, they NEVER miss a chance to stick it to us cuz we’re not that fascist defined “middle” and right wing defined “independent” so crucial to staying in power …
yawn. I don’t give a flying fuck who wins on 3 Nov.
I will promise you that the pathetic worthless sacks of shit who waved 60 votes around for 4 years will find some other excuse for being pathetic worthless sacks of shit … or sell outs.
rmm.
Phased in in 2012 for whom? Existing retirees? People ready to retire within 5 years? 14% reduction by way of 2 years delay in retirement or 14% reduction in benefits being paid to existing retirees?
Pledges don’t mean shit to Dems. Haven’t you realized that yet?
Why?
Because it’s not “polite” to put pressure on Dems? It’s not “polite” to be angry at their lies and sellouts?
Because it might embarrass them?
Because it might scare them into representing the voters instead of the vote-buyers?
As Matt Taibbi said recently, “Our representatives don’t exist to protect voters from special interests, they exist to protect special interests from voters”.
They are counting on advertising this a “means testing” Social Security which actually shows up as doing very well in the polls. But Price Indexing is the farthest thing from means testing it doesn’t deal with income after you retire only while you are working, so after a lifetime of work when you have finally getting the wages you deserve in the last 10 years of work … thats when the means testing of Price Indexing kicks in, and it doesn’t take into account any of the income above the cap (warren buffet’s income is treated the same a nurse working overtime). If anything like Price Indexing comes out of the is undemocratic Cat Food Commission we need to flood the telephones lines to the capitol and flood the local offices of our congress people.
As has been said in this forum before … it’s shameful that any of us should have to spend one second of our time defending Social Security while Democrats control the White House and both houses of congress … it is a sad day in America.