Have you ever seen an athlete stay in the game for too long (no intentional resemblance to any quarterback of the Minnesota Vikings) because they cannot imagine a world without the adulation and cheering? That’s about the only analogy I can make to the persistent carping inside the White House, now a definitive strategy and part of the President’s stump speech, telling the liberal base to “stop whining,” “get over it,” “wake up” and “get in gear.” Blue Texan has an more complete list, and contrasts it with messages that would work on him.
Before revealing the latest in this genre, I would just add that I’ve never seen a politician run an election with the message “Don’t be stupid, quit your bitching and vote for me.” This goes orders of magnitude beyond “Here are the stakes, my opponent would vote against everything you care about. That at least has a certain time-tested quality. That would make the election a choice and not a referendum. But “vote for me, you simpletons”? There’s a reason that strategy has never been employed: because it’s so insane to think that open berating would inspire a voter to action.
Here’s President Obama talking to Rolling Stone. Let me set the scene here: the President just completed a long interview with Jann Wenner. He left the room. Then a minute later, concerned that the hippie may be left standing, he comes back in the room to deliver the knockout punch.
One closing remark that I want to make: It is inexcusable for any Democrat or progressive right now to stand on the sidelines in this midterm election. There may be complaints about us not having gotten certain things done, not fast enough, making certain legislative compromises. But right now, we’ve got a choice between a Republican Party that has moved to the right of George Bush and is looking to lock in the same policies that got us into these disasters in the first place, versus an administration that, with some admitted warts, has been the most successful administration in a generation in moving progressive agendas forward.
The idea that we’ve got a lack of enthusiasm in the Democratic base, that people are sitting on their hands complaining, is just irresponsible.
Everybody out there has to be thinking about what’s at stake in this election and if they want to move forward over the next two years or six years or 10 years on key issues like climate change, key issues like how we restore a sense of equity and optimism to middle-class families who have seen their incomes decline by five percent over the last decade. If we want the kind of country that respects civil rights and civil liberties, we’d better fight in this election. And right now, we are getting outspent eight to one by these 527s that the Roberts court says can spend with impunity without disclosing where their money’s coming from. In every single one of these congressional districts, you are seeing these independent organizations outspend political parties and the candidates by, as I said, factors of four to one, five to one, eight to one, 10 to one.
We have to get folks off the sidelines. People need to shake off this lethargy, people need to buck up. Bringing about change is hard — that’s what I said during the campaign. It has been hard, and we’ve got some lumps to show for it. But if people now want to take their ball and go home, that tells me folks weren’t serious in the first place.
If you’re serious, now’s exactly the time that people have to step up.
Where to begin? First: civil liberties? You want to go there? Seriously?
Second: the President is confusing a couple things. He thinks that people who don’t necessarily get enthusiastic over his brand of politics are “taking their ball and going home.” Well, no, maybe they just don’t think he can accomplish any of the goals they hold dear. Maybe they think he’s actively in the way of those goals.
Actually, nobody thinks any one thing. I’m not going to make the same mistake of the President in painting the whole base with the same broad brush. I just continue to marvel at the chutzpah of someone saying that inappropriate fealty to him equals something inexcusable or irresponsible. Really, dude? That’s your strategy? There are ways to lay out the stakes of an election in very stark terms – part of which Obama does here – without this tone of “I can’t stand you, now go vote for me.”
I think you’re seeing two years’ worth of friction spill out right before an election. Either that, or the White House has possession of some polling saying that browbeating works. One or the other.
UPDATE: An only slightly more measured critique, and defense by the President of his accomplishments, appears earlier in the article, here (scroll down to the third question).
UPDATE II: I think you should read this piece as the wind-up to his comment about civil liberties:
When people start being concerned about, “You haven’t closed Guantánamo yet,” I say, listen, that’s something I wanted to get done by now, and I haven’t gotten done because of recalcitrance from the other side. Frankly, it’s an easy issue to demagogue. But what I have been able to do is to ban torture. I have been able to make sure that our intelligence agencies and our military operate under a core set of principles and rules that are true to our traditions of due process. People will say, “I don’t know — you’ve got your Justice Department out there that’s still using the state-secrets doctrine to defend against some of these previous actions.” Well, I gave very specific instructions to the Department of Justice. What I’ve said is that we are not going to use a shroud of secrecy to excuse illegal behavior on our part. On the other hand, there are occasions where I’ve got to protect operatives in the field, their sources and their methods, because if those were revealed in open court, they could be subject to very great danger. There are going to be circumstances in which, yes, I can’t have every operation that we’re engaged in to deal with a very real terrorist threat published in Rolling Stone.
He seems to be making a distinction between the kind of blocking of inquiry of the Bush Administration’s actions that we saw in Jeppsen, and the ways in which state secrets gets used going forward. “We are not going to use a shroud of secrecy to excuse illegal behavior on our part.” I mean, there’s no way to verify that, right? If you seek to make an entire assassination program secret, who exactly knows what the behavior is being shielded? It comes down to a matter of trust, and civil libertarians really shouldn’t stand for that, because they ought to have a healthy skepticism, not just of the current occupant of the office, but its future residents. We don’t want to give the ability to kill American citizens without due process to a President who says he’s using it for good, because the next President may not adhere to such niceties.




315 Comments

Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL News Desk
Obama proved he wasn’t quite ready for prime time.
Maybe if a reading of the Early Morning Swim had been added to Presidential Daily Briefing,
the WH wouldn’t be surprised by what’s going on in the country.
As it is, the level of cluelessness is frightening.
It’s become clear Obama does not handle criticism very well. Instead of hearing the criticism and re-examining what he’s doing, or even using it as a cue to explain his positions, he just gets defensive and starts lashing out at those who are critical. I sense a lot of resentment coming from him directed to those who could be his champions.
This character of his doesn’t jibe with his “make me do it” statements. He doesn’t really want his actions to be criticized, he doesn’t seem capable of handling it rationally.
blaming people you represent, that’s change for you!
May I blame MSM in part? I mean, it isn’t an enthusiasm gap so much as a disillusionment gap.
Obama wouldn’t have this problem if he was enthusiastic about delivering on his promises more than negotiating and responding to the “recalcitrance” of the “other side”.
Kind of telling that he’s willing to fight during elections.
FU Barack you lying sack…you want votes get them from the people you catered to…the scum at ahip and wellpoint should be voting for you…you gave them money for nothing, the banker scum got BILLIONS in taxpayer funded bonuses and yet it wasn’t enough for them, maybe the torturers you didn’t prosecute will vote for you.
I think he meant to say: “Yeah, just try ‘n make me do it” (with a silent nya nya nya nya, nya nya).
This administration needs to be flushed.
Give us a presidential candidate that is willing to risk some Democratic seats in order to lead a truly progressive Democratic party and Obama will see how unenthusiastic we presently are. He’d also see how many votes could be had by simply standing up and fighting, rather than insisting every battle be choreographed to victory before even leaving the bunker.
Very few people will vote for Democrats this election; those that pull the lever for a D will be voting against Republicans while closing their eyes and holding their nose, fully aware the that best that can be said, even by the Democratic leadership, is that “we Democrats don’t stink nearly as bad as the Republicans.”
I look forward to seeing some alternatives for 2012 after this election is over.
Better to point the spotlight on someone other than yourself. Not only is he inept, he’s a coward. Two reasons to vote Green.
He’s absolutely right. We are facing a Republican Party that has moved to the right of George Bush. Unfortunately, we’re facing a Democratic Party that has done the exact same thing.
The upside to the Republicans is that lots of people think they’re crazy, and then protest and fight against all those far-right policies as a result. When the Democrats take up the mantle of far-right policies it gets branded as pragmatic centrism, finds broad establishment support, and then they’re invariably enacted.
None if the problems purportedly created by Republicans have been resolved, and the Democrats just started slathering on new ones.
Hell, right now we’re looking at a Democratic President who has moved to the right of George Bush on civil liberties, appointments to the Sup Ct, militarizing of government, outsourcing including outsourcing kill and capture powers that may not even exist, etc.
Obama has claimed Pakistan as his own, personal, Cambodia. It’s not what he hasn’t done fast enough, it’s the things he’s done far too quickly. It was more a matter of hours than months before he was bombing Pakistan.
Sorry Odumbo, what’s irresponsible is the leadership you’ve provided given a mandate for change and the worst recession in 80 years.
He is PROVABLY fighting with every inch of his being to assert state secrets in al-Haramain to cover up what a court has ALREADY found to be criminal and unconstitutional wholesale conduct by the government. Obama is lying through his teeth.
A short time ago, I saw a TV ad by O on the subject of education. In it, he blames the parents. Statements like ya gotta go to P-T conferences, ya gotta help make sure they do their homework every night & help them with it, etc., etc. He has no idea of how real people need to work to keep the household going and have no time and/or energy to do the kind of things O is exhorting. Esp all those single working moms who were thrown off welfare.
A-hole.
Back when this piece of shit was selling out the American people for the insurance, medical, and pharma industries while progressives did everything we could to bring about the public option, at a minimum, I asked on these pages when the mocking of progressives would end and the begging for our volunteerism would begin. Well, surprise, surprise, neolibs refuse to beg progressives. They, Obama specifically here, think they can order us around, like our boss who happens to wander by the break room and sees us loitering.
The truly funny thing is that in comparison to this pompous, arrogant, lying psychopath, I would rather have a beer with Bush. He was just along for the ride. Obama, it is becoming clearer every day, is just a despicable human being. Not only does he not keep his promises, not only was “change” too hard, he takes voluntary, affirmative action to do what he promised he wouldn’t do. I hope a GOP Congress impeaches this sorry son of bitch.
Does Obama even listen to what he says?
He is either living in a total fantasy world or a sociopathic liar.
(or both)
His problem is that he’s yet to show young people — who have an allergy to the polls (and to following current events) why they should vote for him.
Are you serious?
If you can find fault with that PSA, you can find fault with anything.
Unlike the Obama administration itself, which … is also spending huge black budget amounts with impunity and without disclosing where the money’s spent. An Admin that is all too happy to spend it with Xe and Caci and Titan and on Special Forces murder operations. An Admin that not only doesn’t tell the truth on torture and won’t prosecute torturers, but will go out of its way to threaten other governments that might possibly reveal information about our torture programs.
Yeah – right – the 527 spending is the scarey part. Uh huh. Got it.
Here’s the way it plays out if the Blue Dogs (and it’s their people who lack enthusiasm) lose and the House and Senate pass into Republican hands. Darrell Issa impeaches Obama on civil liberty grounds. Steny Hoyer positions himself to come back as Speaker. Schumer becomes Senate minority leader. Jim DeMint becomes Senate majority leader.
Latest Nate Silver probabilities are 65% chance GOP takes the House and 18% chance they take the Senate, but he also says that CT and WV are in play.
It sure looks like Obama is beating up on progressives to try to save Blue Dog butts. But the Dawgs are running away from him as fast as he pursues them.
Dear President Fuckface, If you hadn’t spent the past two years stuffing your mouth with right-wing cock in an idiotic attempt to get the wingnut bigots to “like” you and had acted like a REAL Democrat who had won his presidency with an electoral landslide and went into office with a commanding congressional majority and a 70% popularity rating, you wouldn’t be in this fucking mess. So don’t try to blame ME because YOU FUCKED UP. Very truly yours…
A-yep.
BTW – it’s not lethargy and a lack of enthusiasm, it’s active dislike and a decision that the Dem options are bad choices.
It’s like putting arsenic and cyanide on a plate and then saying that the diner who passes up both options is lethargic and lacks enthusiasm.
I guess when you are in the beltway for long enough, you forget what straw looks like. The rest of us don’t.
That is only from criticism from the dirty left. He meets with the GOP all the time to tell them they don’t even have to meet him halfway.
aaarrrrgggh – my usually reliable memory is not helping this morning – Sometime during the Primary Wars, I read a TradMed piece by someone saying Punching Hippies for the Rich’s entertainment was a winner – and the article contained some polling to reflect that
simply cannot recall whether it was an actual serious person like Thomas Frank, or a very serious person like Matt Bai
Maybe these pols are frustrated that we’re not acting according to the script. It often appears that this tension between the left and right is manufactured and nurtured for the purpose of manipulation. Divide us into a left and right, then march us left right left right wherever they want us to go. As long as we’re distracted with petty scripted arguments we’re out of the real game.
So my Q is: How long have they been planning this “the other guys suck worse campaign?” Looking back, it seems like it might have been their strategy all along-the way they hoped to reward their donors & appease their voters. And hoping Rs get elected becuz they’ll be easier to run against in 12.
It is not lethargy, it is anger.
It’s funny at this point, the sheer incompetence.
But even Obama isn’t stupid enough to run against union members, Latinos, young voters, and all the rest of the base who are disillusioned.
It seems he’s actually talking about…bloggers.
This is surely the first campaign strategy based on demonizing Jane Hamsher and Glenn Greenwald.
But at least he’ll have someone (else) to blame after they get crushed.
Yeah. Let’s not let legitimate anger turn us into the Three Minutes Hate crowd. Reflexive rage is something we should leave to the Koch-bought “tea party”.
Maybe all those folks can get their maids to help the kids with the homework.
On edit: I had a niece who taught HS kids from slum environments. The female lead in her performance of Midsummer Night’s Dream was pregnant and, in addition, had to go home after school to help babysit her younger sib, just to name one story of how disjointed their lives are. My niece ‘solved’ the problem, against school rules, by allowing the younger sib to come watch the rehearsals. Other stories were worse.
Which should make you, a Republican, quite happy, eh?
QFT
Look, he knows that his only chance for re-election in 2012 is to blame an obstructionist Congress. So the worse the Dem losses this November, the better for him personally. He actually doubled back to make sure he didn’t forget to insult the base.
We can expect plenty more of this.
We
I’m(almost) inspired to vote for the Republicans now and I think Obama wants them to win so he can show how bi-partisan he can be for 2012. I pray someone challanges Obama in 2012 for the Democratic nomination. At least with Republicans you know what you’re getting, not this back-stabbing bastard.
What is the “progressive agenda” that he has moved forward ?
Hmmmmmm!
They are unmoored from reality — weirdly, petulantly fixated on the left blogosphere — indeed, on FDL specifically (remember their “drug testing” comment, a jab at Just Say Now?). Bizarrely, they think the millions of disaffected, defeated, unemployed voters who are not going to bother to come out and vote for them…reside here.
They’re incapable of speaking through action.
Evidently the mandarins of the Democratic Party have learned absolutely nothing from the 2000 election. Issuing threats and wagging fingers won’t cause disaffected progressives to vote Democratic.
That could be a sign of too much stress.
All of us lose our finer social skills and the ability to ‘deal with it’ as more and more stress is thrown at us. Maybe he is just getting snappy, you know, bitchy because he needs a break. It is perfectly normal and his enemies know it and will use it against him relentlessly.
It may be the first campaign to specifically demonize Jane & Glenn, but punching the hippies and demonizing the left has been going on forever. Welcome to the club.
This is barely an exaggeration.
There are many things I agree with regarding Obama’s disappointing performance thus far. However the prez is correct about parents being involved in their child’s education. Not having time is BS and not an option. Regardless of circumstance, parents MUST TAKE the time if the child is to have a successful experience. It is the ONLY way to counter the conservative effort to dumb down the populace. Low-info voters will vote GOP out of fear and ignorance.
BTW – I’m not nearly as concerned about whether or not GITMO has been closed as I am over the fact that he’s never had the political and moral and pragmatic guts to sit down and tell America the truth about GITMO. A lot of GITMO would begin to be solved and resolved if he made an address focusing on it and went through case studies on some of the many mistakes that were made, announced reparations for those persons in that discussion, and used those cases to highlight why we HAVE to have a full, fair, transparent process going forward and why we have to untangle the process from the people and institutions that were involved in the mistakes and have vested interests in not wanting those mistakes to become public.
And you know what – that argument about having to protect operatives in the fields sucks worse than Sharktopus. If you have operatives in the field who are tied to murder and torture and illegal kidnapping for the purpose of delivery to torture, etc. – WHY THE HELL ARE THEY IN THE FIELD!?!?!?!
Over and over we get to hear all about the woman who was not “covert” who took a “gettin my jollies” trip to watch waterboarding and who is responsible for the depraved kidnap and treatment of Khalid el-Masri and kept him there even after it was clear they had the wrong person and who is likely involved in the destruction of tapes even after the CIA was told not to destroy them. After showing that she would keep the “wrong” person in depraved conditions for torture even when she knew she was wrong (and perhaps after violating orders from the WH in destroying tapes) she was then given a classified field operative assignment to keep her identity “secret.”
What absolute crap – you pull her in and clean up what you can and kick the hell out of those who tried to pull that kind of cover up crap. You don’t go behind close doors and kill democracy just so your torturers will like you better.
I used to be an optimist, too.
Since the beginning of this administration I’ve seen commentary to the effect that Obama would be positioned well for 2012 with Democratic losses in the midterms. I wish I could think of examples, because I’m at a loss to tease out such tortured logic. I think there’s something to it, though. There’s such an air of deliberate, studied helplessness about the administration in the face of the Republicans.
When will the real Obama stand up and stop whining?! Who is this guy and, furthermore, who the hell does he think he is?!
Nerd…narcissist…patsy…repub…neocon…place warmer…WTF?
He’s right. Successful students have a lot of support at home. You might be able to come-up with a million reasons for poor performance by students who don’t have that support but none of the reasons matter. Parents either have to provide the support or be resigned to poor performance.
See the link at 28. Politico has the story.
Oh! My!
You are going to upset Obama terribly, Mary.
Carry on, please.
;~DW
for months now, I’ve had an image in my head of Rahm and others ‘whining’ on a regular basis
the Clinton White House didn’t have to deal with the fucking internet !!!
further, I think some of their consternation stems from buying in to the Village’s idea of bloggers as ‘cranks with a keyboard’ and they are frustrated with said cranks holding sway
Um, let’s see. Make sure I don’t get fired when I’m required to work O/T without compensation (Wal-Mart), or help my kids with their homework.
And the schools have a weed out attitude like they are trying to make whole families fail by throwing excessive make work home work at them, while not actually teaching them anything.
Do you have a link that describes the case of this woman and el-Masri?
And you forget that Obama, like Bush, and like other guys engaged in illegal bombing and assassination and criminal behavior before them, adopts the “if the President does it, it’s not illegal” approach. To hell with the courts.
And when I say his position is *to hell with the courts* I mean just that. He hasn’t bothered to comply with almost any of the orders issed by habeas courts and his soldiers at GITMO routinely tell the lawyers for detainees there that court orders in their cases have no meaning on the base – only military orders, not law.
And that attitude doesn’t flow bottom up, it comes from the top down.
A lot of people agree that Obama might prefer a Republican congress. As much as I hate to say it, maybe the best thing to do is ram a democratic congress down his throat and keep him, them and their previous promises in the spotlight. Meanwhile, keep working to field better candidates. I’d sure have to hold my nose to vote for these guys though.
It’s like Obummer just can’t quite believe that anyone has the nerve to criticize him. The more Obamaco goes out and punches the hippies, more Obama expects the hippies to somehow get in line. Uncle Joey Biden, the Clintonistas, Gibbs, Axelrod, Rahm – they’ve all gotten in line to take their turns sh*tting on us dfh’s, and it’s like they canNOT believe that we’re STILL pushing back, being recalcitrant and not “getting in line.”
Are they are all so jaded, so cynical, so out of touch that they actually “believe” their centrist b.s.??? Or have they been rubbing elbows long enough with the likes of Rupert Murdoch & “Rev” Sun Yung Moon that they think progressives will be like conservatives and “believe lies” if the lies are told often enough???
Weird. I do think Obummah is stressed out and desparate.
I despise Daryll Issa, but I won’t be all that sorry if he tries to impeach Obama. It’ll be a waste cuz they’ll focus on dumb stupid worthless nonsense that’ll waste time & money. But frankly it’s like watching an accident in slow-mo anymore: get it over with.
I guess after being called fucking retarded, we just don’t feel appreciated.
Dumbing down the population & making sure parents don’t have the time is part of the plan of the PTB, and then you can blame them.
There is no excuse why the U.S. couldn’t pay a living wage in normal workday so parents could have the time & energy to fulfill their family obligations. It happened right in the U.S. in the 1950s and 1960s.
Oh, dear, the eleventy-dimension master is in a twist because that mean Roberts court put its finger on the scale so that elections will be for the most obsequious corporate toady — and the poor Dems can’t compete! How tragic.
Too bad the brilliant Democratic strategists didn’t figure that out before their gleeful romp of mendacity and base betrayal. Now they got no dollars, and they got no base.
What’s that they say about payback?
We don’t want you to show us your teeth, Mr. President. We don’t want them in a smile, and we don’t want them in a snarl. We want you to show us the money. Surely you’re familiar with that expression? We want you to do what we tell you to do.
Of course there is an alternative. You can lose. Your $30,000-a-plate anti-Woodstocks won’t win your elections when the opposition can pony up $3,000,000.
Sadly, that’s not an eleventy-dimension observation. But that doesn’t mean it’s not true.
I don’t think anyone here would think that parents should ignore their kids. Of course parents should play a role in their child’s education, but I think the argument is more about perspectives.
It’s also my experience that parents really don’t like to be told by anyone how to raise their child. Especially advice from a rich, pendantic stranger.
Some has to say it…
Obama ain’t much but he’s the only hope we have. We’re dealing with real world problems; we can’t afford ideological purity. We have to take what we can get and they try for more. Quit whining and start working. Conservatives have had 30 years and more to screw-up the country. We’ve got a lot of work to do to fix it and it can’t be done in a day.
Like Obama might be fully contained inside a CIA manufactured bubble. Good observation.
David Dayen:
I think you want it to read “Have the White House Lost Their Minds?”
Based on the posts here. All I can say is “Welcome to the new Republican majority”. I’m sure we can look forward to that Progressive agenda now. I can’t wait.
We may not always get the leaders we need but we always get the leaders we deserve.
Why do we keep putting these narcissistic bastards into office. I really thought Clinton was the narcissism ‘Queen,’ but I’m beginning to believe Obama has him beat. Is it possible to be a politician and NOT be self-absorbed?
I can imagine the argument in 2012 would be “You Better Vote For Me or the GOP controls both Congress and the White House Again”
That makes some sense. Progressives are likely pretty aware that Obama is right about the alternative to government by Dems. Many Blue Dogs run in districts where the republican isn’t seen as a bad alternative, since a lot of people in those districts are pretty conservative.
When the sucky democrats couldn’t pass legislation that would deal with Citizens United, I just threw up my hands. What’s the point of giving a few hundred dollars when the crazy rich people can give the same number of hundreds of thousands to persuade the ignorant?
Almost forgot, Oboover–I’ll step up when you do.
Let me see what I can find for you – it’s discussed in Jane Mayer’s book, The Dark Side, where she links the info about the covert field assignment’s timing and the already disclosed (by Mayer and Priest) info about the woman’s involvement in el-Masri. We also had stories out about some woman with CIA who was not an interrogator but just wanted to get to be in the same room with someone being waterboarded and flew over on our nickel to watch KSM be waterboarded (and apparently that caused him to clam up) for her personal jollies.
Mayer’s book says the woman did get a censure in her record for that (so we have people with censures in their record for getting their jollies from torture who get field assignments – that’s reassuring) and Mayer’s book is the only place I know of that also confirms the woman getting her jollies from the waterboarding is the same as the woman who arranged for el-Masri’s rendition and left him in depravity even after she knew he was the “wrong” el-Masri. Thank God for her, though, bc Obama is simply shocked out of his shorts at the thought of bringing her in from the field and revealing her identity.
I can get you a fast link to the el-Masri story Priest ran and I’ll do that – I’m not sure I have time to find other links to the Mayer book info. I’ll see.
Oh! My sufferin’ dog hairs!!!
Now you’ve gone and done it, eCAHN.
You are speaking truth.
Better watch out, that offends many people … of means as well as those who possess but a superficial “grasp”, those who do not wish to know, or have their serenity flummoxicated.
Not only could parents use the “support” you mention, education itself needs a far greater investment of resources … which now are going to war, to obscene “bonuses”, and undeserved and very destructive tax cuts for those who have too much already.
Carry on, please.
DW
Dear eCAHN: The choice is yours. Relegate your children to the same fate or help show them a way out.
This tepid pap is not going to fire anyone up.
It evidently can’t be done in two years with huge majorities in both Houses, either.
I don’t know if he is talking to you, but I know I can take it personally.
The dig about getting drug tested was an actual threat. They could decide to test my blood, take my house and put me in prison for it. There is no power they don’t have, that is the point of the threat.
My answer in reply to them is, you want to legalize torture and shield the Bush torture administration from prosecution? Bring it on.
as many of us know, that has been working with the OFA/Big Orange crowd for a while
however, there seems to be a disturbance in that force just within the past few days –
appealing the 9th Circuit’s DADT decision, kicking down war protesters doors, and targeting american citizens for assassination story hitting the TradMed airwaves, all within the last week appears to have peeled off a significant chunk of the more reliable cheerleaders
and did you see this fine post by Peter Daou yesterday ? waaaay past due, but indicative of what folks are waking up to
The reference to the Jane Mayer book is enough. Thanks.
I don’t know about the CIA. More like the big campaign donors who consistently give to both sides.
Agreed. It is true that it’s a big problem that parents are not taking more responsibility in working with their kids on school home work, reading, etc. I see it happening, though, even in families where they do have the time to do it; they just can’t be bothered bc they’re on FaceBook or shopping at the mall or watching the Biggest Loser or whatever other distractions amuse them.
cCAHN you make a good point about the overall dumbing down and the inability esp of the working poor to provide good parenting at home, esp if they, themselves, didn’t get it. There used to be school programs that worked with parents to teach them the skills they needed to assist their kids. Of course, with education funds being slashed and burned everywhere, these kinds of programs are mostly all gone. Not enough to have the POTUS wagging his finger at you; many of these people actually need “life skills” taught to them in order that they can more effectively help their kids.
I get your anger with Obummer bc he trots out for some stupid PSA, which *may* have a righteous message, but in no way really assists those who need the help most. And what does Obummer do? Give tons of money to Wall St and the Banksters & to the MIC, while dumping sh*t on the public schools and the unions.
Hear hear!
And the PTB love love love it that the middle classes (such as they are these days) are too distracted with junk & “entertainment” to spend much time working their kids. Keep ‘em dumb and distracted is the overall goal.
thanks naynay7, I think someone wants to be a nametag hostess at our “welcome new republican majority” gala!
Assuming facts contrary to the evidence, namely, there isn’t a way out. More & more Americns are finding their way into that trap despite working like slaves (word deliberately chosen) to prevent it.
You might peruse Nickle & Dimed, to get some perspective.
You do know that upward mobility in the U.S. now ranks well down the list of countries.
wow…shocking does not describe the level of cluelessness displayed by Obama in this interview. he really thinks we should be taking measurements about where to put his likeness on Mt. Rushmore because his “accomplishments” are sooo historic. Rahmbo leaving will change nothing.
Righto.
Things Obama and family get: Do-nothing appointments to corporate boards for large dollars when his ass is kicked out in ’12. A life-time pension and health care for everyone in the family, courtesy of us, the tax-payer.
Obama’s “leadership” is a one-trick pony: making good speeches. With respect to the actual work of governing he’s on par with The Quitter; he’s never met a compromise he wouldn’t take and if he could walk out now, half-way through his term he probably would. In some ways by his blantant hippie-punching he’s already done that, just without the announcement by a scenic lake in Alaska.
Had there been another challenger in ’08 besides Hillary who survived the primary process, I suspect that we would not have a President Obama today.
All his actions belie his words, he’ll continue to bash his base and in 2012 wonder why his “Victory Party” on Super Tuesday is full of lobbyists eating Cheez Whiz and crackers. Everyone else will be celebrating with a candidate who is an actual leader, even if he can’t give a speech that would make dead folks stand up and clap.
Someone here? I don’t know anyone at the Lake who’d want that job. Not even me or Margaret. Ha!
Two words. Primary challenge.
Thanks for the link; worth reading.
I stopped going to Big Orange a long time ago, despite some good posts there from time to time.
If some are finally awakening from their Obamabot trance: great. They should come over here and work with us.
If bloggers like us are truly having the effect that we seem to be having, then so much the better. At this stage, I do believe it’s much more effective than sending letters to our Senators & Reps, for ex (that used to have some effect but now: not so much).
Too long. Won’t fit good on a bumper sticker.
Dump Obama!
I never did find his speeches very good, except by comparison with his predecessor. But have you noticed how increasingly lifeless and hectoring they’ve become? Someone should do a side-by-side diary with a campaign speech vs. a recent one. (Beyond my technical skills.) And then we can do a ‘smile’ count.
I’ve said this before;
obama’s real problem is that his constituents are not republicans
we don’t care about his threats, we don’t play for any “team” but team america, we don’t vote for ‘demcrats” we vote for candidates who have a progressive agenda
and we really don’t take at all to threats
his problem is we are not republicans, if he expects these tactics to work on his constituents he really needs to change parties, these tactics work on the other side of the aisle
I like that strategy. That is what I was thinking, give them the reins and then hold them responsible, no more of this ‘divided’ bull shit.
The other thing is to focus more on replacing the ossified turds in the senate, there is actually a lot of good work coming out of the house, it is the senate that is all jammed up. Jammed up with people who have criminal records, we need to do a big investigation of their illegal war and it’s enabling lies. I think there is a drug dealing, child torture ring behind it and I think that is something we need to find out about.
Would you vote for a pedophile to run our country?
Many already have.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/03/AR2005120301476_pf.html
His life has been seriously effed up ever since. His wife and kids thought he had left them and so they left, he’s looked everyplace for justice and found none even though Angela Merkel inadvertently revealed that Rice had fessed up to Merkel he was a “mistake” He’s had some skirmishes with the law since and no one ever has bothered with an apology even.
When the US Sup Ct turned down his case; that’s when I really lost a lot of faith in America as America. If they were going to be a Dred Scott and Korematsu court, which they were, they could have at least had the balls to put their names on a decision instead of hiding under a cert denial.
I agree, step up, don’t stay home, and pull any lever except the incumbent one, and do it every two years until they get the message.
Just like the farmer selling the “obedient” mule. With the sale came a 2X4. Why? First you need to get the mule’s attention.
Well, I’ve got to get on to other things so I’ll have to leave all the “lethargy” on this thread behind me. ;)
I think all the progressive blogs need to join together and create a poll of their membership which will then be sent to all the major media players BEFORE the election so that we can spin the results in the right direction. Because it seems from how the White House is responding, that the electorate will be blamed and not the President.
Sample responses to “How will you vote in November?”
I’m voting for Democrats this November because they fought hard for progressive change.
I’m voting for Democrats this November ONLY because the alternative is much worse.
I’m withholding my vote from Democrats this November because they failed to fight for democratic principles despite huge majorities.
I’m voting third party this November because Democrats no longer stand for democratic principles.
I’m voting for Republicans this November because I am really, really pissed off.
Add a little button for zip code so you can tell which representatives are being voted for positively.
Obviously you have never had one of their black helicopters point it’s machine guns at you.
Actually, his addresses to the nation about the BP oil spill and the end of combat operations in Iraq were both stinkers. In fact, the BP address was close to “malaise” speech territory.
I disagree, what we get is leaders killed.
Get what you’re saying, but I completely lost faith with the SCOTUS and lost faith in America with Bush v. Gore, which was essentially a bloodless coup.
Obama is just the lastest thing in the ongoing coup. Obama is a trojan horse candidate hand-picked by the kleptocracy to fool the voters into electing him so that he can push the nation further right, assist in the dumbing down and enslavement (choosing word) of citizens, and enrich his corporate masters by give-aways to big corporations at the expense of the US taxpayers, who now stand to lose the money WE invested thru our hard labor into Soc Sec.
I agree with Glenzilla, that the WH is pre-spinning a big Nov. loss:
What’s going on here seems clear. Each time there is a Democratic loss on the horizon, White House officials find someone to blame other than Obama; that happened with Martha Coakley, Creigh Deeds, and a whole slew of other Democratic defeats. By incessantly complaining now about the “irresponsible” “whiners” who aren’t sufficiently grateful to the Obama White House, they seem to be setting up in advance a nice excuse for Democratic defeat in November: it wasn’t anything we did to cause this; it was the fault of those whiny, unrealistic irresponsible liberals who didn’t cheerlead loudly enough. What seems to matter most is that Obama be exonerated for the Democrats’ electoral woes, even though he clearly bears substantial responsibility for much of it.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/09/28/obama/index.html
True, even Obama’s speechifying has gotten worse and worse with each passing day. He’s not even good at that anymore. So we’re left with a “No-trick pony,” at this stage. A pony that turns around and kicks us in the teeth. No thanks.
Hey, Obama.
I may be complaining but I sure as hell ain’t sittin’ on my hands. I’ve got a real progressive trying to unseat the fogey Bill Young and we’re working to get him elected. Got a great name too. Charlie Justice. Followed in the footsteps of one of the most progressive state legislators in FL, Lars Hafner.
But see, you keep talking about all this swell progressive legislation you’ve been able to pass. Yeah? Where the fuck is it? Health care reform? Financial reform? Civil liberties? Horseshit.
Obama, you may think neoliberal policies are “progressive” but you and I are using different dictionaries.
No, Obama, I’m not sittin’ on my hands. I’m workin’ to undo the harm you’ve managed to inflict on the American people in the last 20 months.
Asshole.
you are kidding, right? I’m not asking for “purity” just a President that will quit kissin up to every coporate and Republican ass that walks by. Abandon all hope ye….
Most likely. They certainly seem desparate, don’t they?
If he says, “Let me be clear.” one more time I’m going to barf.
The opportunity for upward mobilty continues to exist in this country. It might not be what it was, but it does continue to exist.
As in the past, the best way up is through getting a good education. As the PSA indicates, parents being involved with their children’s education is a key component of that.
The idea that parents, at least the great majority of them, are too busy to do this is less than persuasive.
I, too, think that link is worth reading.
This metaphor is priceless:
you missed ecahn’s point, this is why wealthy kids do better then poor kids joe
when you are poor you feed your kids or you educate your kids, you don’t get to do too much of both
by the time my dad came home from work it was time for me to go to bed when I was growing up, I was lucky enough to have a parent home
now both parents are forced to work in most households
so you feed your kids or you teach your kids for many people, I think most people feed em
ROFLMAO!!!
No bailout for YOU, Barry. I believe in the merit system and so far you (and your party) ain’t built up no points boy! You condescending, lying, whining, not-ready-for-primetime loser. Because your promises mean nothing, starting now you have to deliver BEFORE I’ll even consider supporting you.
Civil liberties? Really? Walk on Barry!
last time I watched a football game, the cheerleaders had little to do with the outcome on the field.
Steny Hoyer, Harry Reid, Ben Nelson, Barack Obama, etc. – yep, sounds right. What you deserve.
Go see what put Russ Feingold into hotter water – fighting Bush or following Obama.
Even if everything he says about policy were undeniably true, this would not be the way to go about getting out the vote in the face of an enthusiasm gap.
Ok, here it is BO: your life is so much easier than mine and you are so much more ethically compromised than me that you can take your sanctimony and stuff it right up your ass.
eCAHN and Tammany, good points both. I was thinking more about his campaign speeches than his recent ones, which as you both rightly point out have been pretty awful.
For some reason, Obama reminds me of Saruman in LoTR
Is he like Saruman, just doing the work of Sauron (the republicans) as Tolkein had Saruman doing in LoTR?
Life resembles fiction? LOL!
Generally I enjoy your perceptive posts at FDL but you’ve descended to a level of pessimism that I haven’t reached. (Or, perhaps, am not feeling today.) It would seem the next step is [edited by mod.]
[modnote: please don't go there.]
Who says he wants to win? He has a better chance of getting reelected if he has a republican congress where he can do the old Clinton Triangulaton
and look like the good guy. He has single handedly rived a Republican party which was in the morgue waiting to be cremated. A terrible disappointment.
Forgive me, but someone who admires Ronald Reagan cannot possibly be all that bright in the first place.
Unless he’s primaried by Howard Dean.
This is the first, and only, president in my lifetime that has deliberately scorned and insulted his base. After the losses in November, we’ll be blamed and scolded again. In reality, the two-faced one only has himself to blame.
I appreciate your unsolicited personal advice.
Inexcusible, no, it is ALMOST TREASON! as Daily Kos told us, not to support the third Bush Term and the Obama wars.
It is inexcusible that a Democratic President insults other Democrats on a daily basis, while destroying Social Security, during an election campaign. Progressive, I think not. Warmonger, corporate shill, yes.
Not suggesting you should do that, sir. Only that it seems the next logical step after declaring there is “no way out.”
Well-stated. It may be impossible for the administration to do anything of the sort, though. If crimes against humanity, and war crimes, have been occurring at GITMO, he’s helping foreign prosecutors by enumerating the excesses. Oh, what a tangled web we weave…
Standing up and cheering out loud for your comment. 100% agree.
Judging from the thread, FDL may be getting to the point where reading some Chris Hedges might be timely. Unless, of course, his views are total anathema at FDL.
Right on!
Obama doesn’t need a Republican House to win in 12.
He needs one of two things. One, a thriving economy that is driving unemployment down. Or, two, a dicier option, the GOP to nominate a lunatic.
They don’t care about staying in control of congress; in fact, they care more about losing it becoz then it makes their kabuki theatre, which always ends up with pro-corporate legislation, that much easier to direct … in fact, they don’t even have to direct it then … becoz they can use the old clinton excuse: the republicans made me do it. It makes it easier to serve their corporate masters becoz then they won’t need all the elaborate inter-party bullshit like pulling a liebermann or a nelson out of their hat at the last moment to keep the dumbass demo-zombies riveted in their seats and voting/rooting for their heroes (the obaminiation administration).
Now that they know that there will be big losses in the mid-terms they want to use the progressives as scapegoats for them and use that to further alienate progressives from their demo-zombie followers and hence move the party further to the right. It ain’t a big tent, it’s invitation only and you got to be a demo-zombie that will vote democrat no matter what the hell they do … becoz that provides them loyal votes to keep their corporate serving politicians in power … or have big money to get in.
Does anyone have a better explanation? Can they be this stupid to continually antagonize their base, their most passionate and demanding voters, right before the election? Has this tactic ever been done before in the history of american politics? Is there any poll whatsoever that shows this to be a winning strategy? And finally, when are the progressives going to figure out that you ain’t invited to the party unless you’re inebriated on their nonsense? And when are we going to start fighting back and begin the long and arduous work of creating a third party?
One of the few things that obama did not lie about was that he was quite comfortable being a one-term president. What he did lie about was whose interests he was willing to serve to risk that. Hint: it ain’t ours; it’s the exact opposite.
Z
I found it kind of hard to help with homework when the schools don’t allow textbooks to go home with the student.
If we start a third party, we’ll be fringe for a while for sure, but at least we’ll maintain our dignity, pride and principles.
Z
I find it hilarious that one month before an election in which this White House and Democrats are set up to get their asses kicked, the President goes out and tries to sell an until-now ignored and pissed-off Democratic base on how much they’ve moved a “progressive agenda” forward after they’ve made a conspicuous effort to not associate themselves with the dreaded P-word for 2 years.
But that’s not the funniest part. The funniest part, to me, is that this:
… could be uttered without any sense of shame by the same guy who said in the same interview, this:
I guess to put it in basketball terms that the President might understand… if you don’t have a clear path to the hoop, sometimes you need to work for a better shot. And sending out Rahm out to cut backroom deals with the insurance and pharmaceutical industries doesn’t qualify.
The Third Way abandoned it’s base for corporate money under Clinton. They simply figured that the left had no place to go.
speaking for myself,
i would’ve liked to see more things happen.
HOWEVER,
i think our President has been fighting hard and has faced unprecedented obstructions on many fronts.
i can’t even imagine the frustration he must experience.
we’ve got a mess to attend to and fighting the “politics as usual” bull#$%* has proven to be quite a challenge for our Leader.
He can’t even count on all of the democrats to stand up and support him, much less fight off just say No crowd.
i have confidence that if he has more support, he’ll attack more aggressively and achieve more of the many solutions our country needs.
yeah, i may be mad about some of the things that go the way they should have, BUT, i’m not stupid enough to give my vote to the folks that definitely don’t have a clue.
i hope we work with what we’ve got and strive to make it better.
i stand with the President.
let’s send him folks that will commit to make things better.
signed,
used to be a republican, then i woke up
Obama is not fixing anything, he is making it worse.
Many of the parents you speak of are from broken school systems. When property taxes support school systems guess which communities don’t get enough funds? Of course, now this applies to ALL schools.
It looks like they’re trying to nip any type of progressive challenge in the bud. They’d rather risk losing the liberal votes now than giving the liberal agenda any kind of credibility. I suppose the recent history of the Dems has shown that challenges within the party from the left doom general elections to failure (for ex, Kennedy vs. Carter, and if I’m not mistaken Jesse Jackson vs. Dukakis). It’s funny to think that back then Dukakis was the more conservative nominee… Then the Dems finally figured how to win– get a Republican-light nominee (Clinton) and shut those liberals up. They’d rather do that than for example making voting easier or doing outreach because a progressive agenda would lose them a lot of corporate money.
Having said that, I’m still voting for the Democrats. I am lucky in that I have a great Congressman up for re-election, so I don’t even have to hold my nose while doing so.
How long has your critter been in Congress, if I may?
One of those “me or your lying eyes” moments. Wow.
Good idea!
But when you write “democratic principles” did you intend to write “Democratic principles” with a capital “D”, meaning the principles the Democratic Party allegedly stands for? Or did you really intend the small “d?”
You say you enjoy eCAHN’s perceptive comments, jeaton, suggesting that you’ve had the privilege and good fortune of encountering a number of them.
I don’t know what, precisely, you said in your “modded” comment (nor do I wish to), however it is obvious that you’ve paid little attention or you would know that eCAHN is a lady, in every sense of that term, AND an economist. She is a experienced mother and a keeper of bees, a wise and witty soul of depth and compassion.
You would do well to respect those whom you encounter here, and if you are even wiser, you will seek to learn about the accomplishments and sensibilities of those, like eCAHN, who are the “backbone”, the essence, if you will, of FDL.
A bit more respect AND appreciation, please.
DW
The Hope A Dope by Obama
Obama number one task was to lower the number of democrats voting in 2010! because he needs his friends to win 2010 the GOP.
How the Obama Hope A Dope ! worked (To put the GOP back in power took a Trojan Horse Like Obama, yes Obama intentionally wreck the Democratic Party)
Hope A Dope!by Obama “how Obama tried to destroy progressives”
1. I Obama ignored Main Street and took care of Wall Street
2. I Obama every chance I got attack Unions
3. I Obama like Bush endorse the idea of spying on americans
4. I Obama picked Rahm to be my COS
5. I Obama picked Alan Simpson to help me kill Social Security
6. I Obama loved killing the Public Option
7 I Obama loved killing Drug Importation
8. I Obama endorsed and helped Blanche Lincoln and call Unions Retards
9. I Obama let BP destroy the Gulf of Mexico
10 I Obama pissed on the legacy of FDR, and followed Hoover
11 I Obama appointed an Insurance executive to run the Bob Dole Health Care Bill
12. I Obama pissed on the nomination of Dawn Johnsen
13. I Obama will enjoy the day I wipe out Social Security
14 I Obama hate public schools and can’t wait to destroy them.
The Hope A Dope by Obama!
Uh, what? I have a masters, have been building professional experience since I was 18 years old and do my job well. My employers admit this in my annual reviews. I make $36K/year-and that only because I got $1,000 added to my base pay recently. It was my only pay increase in four years. It was described as a raise. I work for a plaintiff’s side tort law firm that contributes the max to most Democratic candidates.
There is no social mobility in this country unless you start out rich and well connected…or at least a bobo.
In other words, we’re competing with Rahm for the Sin Eater position, to use Jane’s phrase.
Exactly. Now when are the progressives going to figure out that it is almost impossible to primary this corrupt party … with its corrupt leadership and corrupt infrastructure … clean?
Z
Somebody has to say it: with your clueless comments about parents and this nonsense, talk to Sean Hannity. You don’t belong here.
Now, now let’s not dwell on the past. Let’s move forward. He was just trying to be “bipartisan”.
Good point though – I liked it.
The hope-a-dope! That’s good and pretty damn accurate.
Z
High on Hopeium, poor shmuck…
I’m sorry, but I don’t deserve these fascists. Stop with the poorly thought out cliches.
I became a single parent and had a 60-80 hour work week for years. We live in corporate heaven. It’s a place where everyone works, children raise themselves and politicians beat down the people for being less than the perfect examples of humanity they are.
On the BBC, a hedge fund manager sneered his way through a session of an interview, belittling we, the workers of the world. Paraphrasing, he wondered aloud why our poor educations should entitle us to be paid well for jobs 1.5 billion Chinese can do for next to nothing. He couldn’t care less if his actions brought down governments, because he demands no oversight or regulation whatsoever. He operates in complete secrecy, is worth more than many nations, and serves only himself, despising others who aren’t scamming the system to reap windfall profits.
People – children in particular – don’t matter a whit to people with no consciences, regardless of the money, power or education they possess.
I don’t think “hold me accountable” means what Obama thinks it means.
When Obama made his deal with pharma and insurance industries for no drug reimportation and no public option despite campaigning explicitly on just those things, he wasn’t fighting politics as usual bullshit….he was delivering it. Those deals were made before our historic congressional majorities could do anything on the issue, and then they were brow beaten by Rahm, etc. to hold to the WH deals. It was a cynical, corrupt maneuver by Obama and their is no excuse for it, other than greed.
And the cycle of abuse continues…
Sometimes there is no choice, as eCAHNomics has pointed out clearly. Since you obviously have lots of free time, why don’t you start volunteering to sit in for the working parents.
Thanks for that, DWB. I wanted to say something, but was having a hard time finding the correct tone or words.
I agree with you most whole heartedly.
You forgot to say she’s cute and hip…but that’s something I would say.
Thanks, again.
The lesser of 2 evils argument again. I’ve heard that since Carter/Reagan. Really, just keep plugging away and maybe in 30 years we will have oh..something good to show for it. Not buying it.
it seems wealth is an inoculation from humanity
I guess bashing this admin is the cool thing for the kids to do nowadays eh?
Retribution for a World Lost in Screens.
“Nemesis was the Greek goddess of retribution. She exacted divine punishment on arrogant mortals who believed they could defy the gods, turn themselves into objects of worship and build ruthless systems of power to control the world around them. The price of such hubris was almost always death.
Nemesis, related to the Greek word némein, means “to give what is due.” Our nemesis fast approaches. We will get what we are due. The staggering myopia of our corrupt political and economic elite, which plunder the nation’s wealth for financial speculation and endless war, the mass retreat of citizens into virtual hallucinations, the collapsing edifices around us, which include the ecosystem that sustains life, are ignored for a giddy self-worship. We stare into electronic screens just as Narcissus, besotted with his own reflection, stared into a pool of water until he wasted away and died.”
Chris Hedges
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/retribution_for_a_world_lost_in_screens_20100927/
Before anyone dares to read this article, I’d suggest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hedges
Great idea to get our message across.
This does the trick for me:
“I’m withholding my vote from Democrats this November because they failed to fight for democratic principles despite huge majorities.”
we’re back to this joe
obama is not all we have, he’s a republican not a democrat, he’s a trojan horse, a sheep in wolfs clothing
we need him out of office, this is as clear as needing the wolf in sheeps clothing out sheep’s stall
obama needs to go
And when you do this:
But “vote for me, you simpletons”?
You’re implying that is a direct quote. FDL has never been known for serious journalism I suppose though.
it’s always cool on a progressive site to bash a republican administration
always
i was trying to be funny,and as usual,failed at it. the comment was directed to naynay7′s input of “well we might as well just all vote republican” or something to that effect. it seemed sophmoric in a pep rally kind of way so i thought an animal house reference….nvr mind.
I’m curious as to how many faux lefty’s are here to stir up trouble. The comment section on here is as outrageous as Politico’s.
Any response yet to onitgoes @ #77?
Didn’t think so.
Very many of the commenters here, at FDL, are accomplished, articulate and very wise.
Some even know certain “influential” people … counting them among their long-time friends … “g”
You were stellar in that movie-night discussion, btw.
DW
We’re not bashing. We’re rejecting the venality of our Government in toto.
Whose “sitting on their hands?” I’ll be there as always, only this time to vote Independant, Green, Working People’s Party, anyone-but-Barack, or write in Elizabeth Warren or Vanessa Hart! PS This Brer Rabbit charade with Rahm Emmanuel, “Oh, please President Obama, don’t through me in the (Chicago) briar-patch is a joke: Rahm and Axelrod are the rats desering the sinking ship SS Obama that the two of them created and sailed on to many future $$$ with!
You wouldn’t know journalism if it hit you. Go, read some Orwell…
No, I’m sorry. Didn’t get your snark. Blame it on the heat here. You be fine. :)
really mike, only a simpleton would take that as a direct quote
no kidding
and you are no simpleton, you are just trying to stir the pot
I guess it worked, it got me to respond
They fit this on a bumper sticker:
It will be a great day when the schools have all the money they need, and the military has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.
Primary challenge is easy. ;-)
Why is Feingold doing so bad? Was he not Progressive enough?
Where’s the enthusiasm for him? He should be surging according to you folk right?
Just cause your leader Jane didn’t get her way and decided to become a complete cry baby on national TV and decided to turn on the establishment as she only knows how to do, doesn’t seem like a reason to depress activists across the U.S. which seems to be the case which is affecting Feingold.
But hey, if depressing Democrats and driving out a great guy like him is worth it, then please, be my guests.
You get what you deserve.
He gets two years to live rent-free in the WH and do nothing except maybe throw a lot of state dinners, be entertained at command performances by remarkably talented people like Paul McCartney, and fly ultra-first class to Hawaii. I’ll take that job!
Much lower than the percent of faux lefty’s in this administration (100%).
Stop. You’re making me blush. No, but really. I didn’t say anything So That.
I just hope that your mending is going in a spectacular way. Thank the good vibes of the universe that you are back here. Was missing you greatly. Your essense makes a great deal of difference here. I’d bet there’s a ton, ton, ton of pups who feels the say way.
I really enjoyed what you were saying to Margaret last night.
May I break into song for a moment? What the world…needs now…is …
That’s right, you buy the Centrist con, and you get what you deserve.
Look, I realize the group here is based on being anti-establishment. You’ve had decades of libertarians tearing apart our social fabric. Anti-establishment is an easy movement to get behind and it’s fun to be part of a group.
But to insinuate Obama is on the side of Republicans is ridiculous. Tearing down the leader of the party just seems nihilistic and self defeating.
I wish it was so for everyone.
Well, with so many ad hom attacks from disgruntled Politico readers disguised as informational comments, what can one expect?
Feingold is one of the good guys. Just one of the unfortunate victims of Obama destroying the Democratic brand.
I agree. The corporate masters get what they want. He is going after our social security, and it will be easier to get it passed with a republican majority.
Hrmm…
This site attacks day in and day out and then can’t take any criticism back.
Gotcha.
It does seem like you are trying to experience some of the Fun of being part of this group.
On edit: Gotcha back. Hmmm and Ha!
Explain why he created the Cat Food Commission.
I hear you-the Democrats have the oldest political infrastructure on the planet. And the most backward-looking. They invented the machine, and the point is to squelch dissent within the party.
yeah, that one and is a dead giveaway.
For years we in the left have watched the Republicans use fear to cause working Americans to vote against their economic interests. Now Barry One-Term shills for his Wall St. masters with fear of ‘them’ and what they will do. Please join me in trying to bring about the demise of the Democratic Party, which is, after all, currently a zombie. Many argue that a grassroots takeover is possible, but I think that this corpse is too putrefied and odiferous to be of any further use.
Hmmm. (To no one in particular.)
Look, if you want to feed the wee beastie, just understand that it’ll come to depend on ya and betray its own rugged robust boot-strap individualism, which it may or may not eventually realize …
In any case, if it makes a mess, of any kind, you’ll have to clean the mess “up”.
Outen the lights when ya leave, please.
DW
Did someone turn off your Fox News and you wandered over here?
In a word, yes-he is not progressive enough.
You’re the one clearly worried about your beloved parties prospects. You’ll get what you deserve.
Which are outrageous in your opinion?
I imagine this site will be cheering when Repubs take over and the Issa impeachment trials begin.
That’ll be fun won’t it. We’ll have really taught the Dems then!
I also thank you for pointing out the Daou post. For example, I like this excerpt:
“I want to emphasize a point I’ve made in previous posts that it’s the merging of left-right opinion that is so damaging to Obama. In other words, Obama could sustain relentless attacks from the right, it’s what everyone expects, but when the left joins in, the bottom drops out. That’s why opinion-shapers in the liberal blogosphere exert inordinate influence over Obama’s fortunes.”
Exactly. It will probably be the most fun I ever have with my pants on.
Enjoy working with Progressives in the Republican party folks.
The next few years should be interesting watching Republicans trying to continue to tear down this countries social safety nets.
Ah! I’ve been burning a few candles a night because of our heat wave, trying to do my part to save energy.
I’ll just leave a nicely scented one over in the corner here. What’s the cleansing one?
Ding ding ding ding!
Cue the crickets…
Guess we’ll just have to wait and see what Issa shakes out, although I’m not holding my breath.
I don’t know about you, DWB, but that interview reminds me of the “Checkers Speech.”
Any lingering doubts that the Democratic Party could be taken over from the bottom up were laid to rest in the Arkansas Senate primary, when Obama and the party establishment made an all-out effort to save Blanche Lincoln. Not because Lincoln was a loyal Democrat or the more electable candidate, but because defeating her challenger would send a powerful message to the progressive wing–namely, that the party establishment has both the motivation and the means to crush dissent.
You have not a clue dood, that light at the end of the tunnel, is a fucking train coming at ya.
you’re kidding right?
he is a corporatist, he believes in the rediculous principles of “trickle down economics”, he actually gives money to the wealthiest people on the planet in the bizarre hopes that more then that amount of money will miraculously make it’s way down to main street
in a time where we are shedding jobs he is firing people in government
in a time where banks destroyed the economy he gave even more middle class assets to banks
in a time where the health insurance industry has more power then any company should he mandates that everyone buy from their monopoly
it is no “suggestion”, it is a fact, he is a corporatist, a trickle down economist, and a trojan horse that needs to be removed from this seat in power
Yup. Rahm Jr. doesn’t do so well when you get to specifics. We could have moved right on to: expanding off shore drilling, prosecuting whistle blowers, expanding state secrecy laws, asserting the right to assassinating American citizens without judicial review, right wing health care bill….you could go on all day.
I will light a candle when I so choose. And, I will let my little light shine.
“That’s why opinion-shapers in the liberal blogosphere exert inordinate influence over Obama’s fortunes.”’
Obama’s policies and actions “exert inordinate influence over Obama’s fortunes.” He’s his own biggest problem. And the more I read about what the man says and then does, or does and then says, the more concerned I become about the “muddlement” exhibited.
We need to make the 15 million jobless’ little lights shine.
Thanks for bringing up POLITICO. I never miss a chance to remind our new folks that POLITICO is owned by the neo-con Allbritton family. When the Allbritton’s owned (along with the CIA) the Riggs Bank, they helped launder funds that supported the 9-11 attacks. The Allbrittons provided material support to terrorism and got away with it. Obama suppresses peace protestors by accusing them of assisting terrorism. Of course Obama also gives taxpayer money to Pakistan, a government of terrorists.
You mean like what the Obama appointed and created Cat Food Commission is doing in cutting Social Security benefits? Like that? Boy, that would be terrible.
“If we want the kind of country that respects civil rights and civil liberties, we’d better fight in this election.”
Obama voted for FISA, Military Commissions Act, The Patriot Act, The Military Commissions Act. We have a NSA download function at EVERY communication hub in the USA since 1996 and Barrack the Constitutional lawyer tells us once again the he live in a Separate Reality!
Alright, that got a chuckle. Thanks, jake!
Didn’t Obama say, back in 2008, that he was not afraid to be a one-term president? I thought that was a coded message for “I am not afraid to do things that need done and that I was elected to do!”
Now we can infer that the reason he was unafraid of being a one-term president was because he had no intention of fulfilling his campaign promises. Obama will be a one term president if he does not understand the electorate.
Yes, we are down to simple cloth raincoats and the teddible, unbearable unfairness of it all, fatster.
Next will be the, “I am not a crook … sniff, sniff! … or an enabler, and you can trust me.”/appeal
(Betcha the dog gets an earful)
Pathetic, deliberate fail.
DW
No, I did not just turn off Fox news and wander over here
Although I am a progressive, it is true that on some matters my opinion differs from the majority here.
But, in expressing them, I tend to avoid ad hominem attacks.
Plus, to quote Jame Hamsher’s post form yesterday:
So, perhaps, I am providing a valuable service here.
Not in the least.
If he believed in trickle down he’s lower the top marginal rates even further and let the middle class rates expire.
And who did he fire?
And which middle class assets did he give to the banks?
And “everyone buy from their monopoly” is just false. There will be tens of millions that couldn’t afford or qualify for insurance that will be subsidized by the Govn’t to purchase insurance now. Tell them the health plan was a corporate sell out. Being upset the public option didn’t get in there is one thing. But to discredit the entire law because you disagree with a portion of it seems unfair to the millions it will help.
And your opinion doesn’t constitute as “fact” as much as you’d like it to.
And that’s a FACT! Oh wait, see what I did there?
Yes, everyone is forced to buy from their monopoly. Who else provides health care? You think you can just spit talking points here and not get called on it? Jog on, buddy. And whenever you can get around to it, we’re still waiting for an explanation as to why your liberal hero empaneled the catfood commission.
.
“And which middle class assets did he give to the banks?”
are you a Zombie, per chance?
Obama has ordered the CIA to murder a US citizen.
I will not feel bad if he is striped of the presidency (which he is abusing) and/or goes to jail.
saphire, a family in poverty won’t be paying a cent for decent health care in a few more years.
That’s the reality of it. That in an of its self seems like a Progressive policy right there.
The conservative part comes in when those that can afford it, should pay for it unless we should just dump all the sick and poor onto insurance and the rates get jacked up. At least that’s how I understand how risk is factored in.
Not a zombie.
Which middle class assets did he give to the banks exactly? Or do you mean which one’s he got back under the direction of Warren?
That question is probably too difficult for Mike, to answer, so I will educate him. Obama and Peter Peterson created the Catfood Commission to use Social Security surpluses to pay for their Endless Wars. Any Social Security money left will go to Goldman Sachs.
Cat Food Commission, Mike.
A US citizen that has sided with the enemy to kill our troops. Sorry, but I feel no pity for a traitor. Once a citizen sides with those we’re fighting, he’s enemy.
Not sure why anyone would care one lick about someone like that.
Wow.
This borders on offensive, and never thought I’d hear that from you.
You ever hear the term “elite liberals?” Right here is exhibit A.
I think I may have misjudged you. You may well be a party operative rather than genuine, as I previously believed.
You have a good day OG. And I truly hope your party gets it’s collective ass handed to it on November, not because I hate Democrats, and not because I want to cut my nose off to spite my face, but because THESE Democrats, these Democrats in Congress now, DESERVE having their collective ass handed to them for their lies, obfuscation, and total and complete failure.
A poster above said it well, we get the leaders we deserve. How true. If progressives continue to support leaders that don’t deliver progressive policies, then progressives deserve leaders that don’t deliver progressive policies. Quite right. Quite right.
Right. And more specifically, Obama created the Cat Food commission, and staffed it 50/50 with Dem/GOP (and more specifically, with an overwhelming majority of functional conservatives) because he couldn’t get the right wing policy he wanted out of Congress. So he nullified all the work progressives did to get a Democratic congress, so his Commission could provide the right wing policies he wanted.
I had to Google it because I had never heard of it referred to as the Cat Food Commission tbh. Must be one of those cool kids terms, or something…
What about it? They haven’t come out with anything yet?
That comes out in December right? Wouldn’t you come out against something when it’s presented in its entirety?
I’d much rather have had a system that lowered costs through competition than one that keeps our health care the most expensive in the world. That we have to provide it as charity to the poor is more a sign of failure than success.
Nice, but, this story missed the stupidity gap
and the non-civil liberties portion of the hypocrisy gap.
They all contribute to the self-inflicted enthusiasm gap.
Vote Green!
Maybe we care about due process.
Factbox: Deficit commission members.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63Q0HB20100427
fuckers would be pissed if we all actually went out and voted for them like they tell us to
when you see the deck is stacked, better not wait till the game is over
Members Of The Commission:
House Democrats: Xavier Becerra (CA), Jan Schakowsky (IL), John Spratt (SC).
House Republicans: Dave Camp (MI), Jeb Hensarling (TX), Paul Ryan (WI).
Senate Democrats: Max Baucus (MT), Kent Conrad (D-ND), Dick Durbin (D-IL).
Senate Republicans: Mike Crapo (ID), Judd Gregg (NH), Tom Coburn (OK).
President Obama: In addition to Bowles and Simpson – Andy Stern, president, Service Employees International Union; Dave Cote, president and CEO, Honeywell; Ann Fudge, former CEO, Young & Rubicam Brands; Alice Rivlin, senior fellow, Brookings.
IDK. I thought that’s what the insurance pools were supposed to do in a way.
LOL! This is fun. It’s like being back in a high school debate class!
Well, you guys use poopy colors on your sites and so few of you can spell.
When you want to debate an issue, let us know.
Wow. A US Citizen against due process, huh?
Right. So, if the military says that citizen has sided with the enemy, then he’s sided with the enemy, and deserves assassination.
Think how much more efficient things here at home will be.
If the DA says that person is a drug dealer, then the police sharp shooter can just take him out. No mess, no costly trial, no appeals!!!!
AWESOME!!!!
Who cares about some old damn piece of paper over 200 years old anyway. Geez, that thing is OLD. Did I mention it was old?
You’ve got it!!! We’ve just got to get with this whole assassination program and we can transform our country!!!!
Just seems a little pre-mature in my book is all.
I guess I’m an eternal optimist. That’s my problem.
You all would probably call it naive or something worse, maybe traitorous.
I’m right here and I have…
try reading more.
Nothing wrong with optimism.
THat’s a good thing. :)
OFG, you’re taking a U.S. citizen fighting with Al-Qaeda/Taliban in a foreign battle field and mixing it with citizens in the U.S.
Also, if a criminal in the U.S. is about to shoot someone, guess what, their due process is an officers judgment. Just making this point because due process isn’t always so clear cut.
Mikey, progressives will not be argued, browbeaten, bossed, hectored, harassed, badgered, nagged, intimidated, bullied, bulldozed, or otherwise forced to contribute, volunteer, or vote for the neoliberal agenda brought to you by the Democrats.
One way to get us on your side again: policy. Signed, sealed and delivered. No more bullshit.
Hell, we could only get 55 Dems to pledge not to gut our Social Security benefits. FIFTY.FIVE. And these jackasses think they deserve our votes? They must have brains made of the stuff that clog shower drains.
I guess I see a difference here.
Maybe my viewpoint will go down in history as being part of the fascist movement that almost took over in 2010 or something.
Chris Hedges: Fighting corporate rape of US:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv_quWatFkY&feature=fvsr
Chris Hedges is an eye opener few are willing to engage.
Chris Hedges – Bankrupt Left Has Plunged Working Class Into Tremendous Poverty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRTOlpq4j54&feature=fvsr
2.41 minutes everyone should be able to spare.
No, you’re ASSUMING the only folks targeted are fighting with Al-Qaeda/Taliban, and ASSUMING that our military never makes mistakes, and ASSUMING these assassinations take place out in the open.
If I’m not mistaken, one example of an American citizen being assassinated was in a car, driving down the road, and hit with a drone. No military activity going on, just a guy in a car gets bombed. So he was with the enemy. Because our never make mistakes military SAYS he was with the enemy.
I hope you enjoy living in the society you’re helping bring about.
No one argued against defensive acts, they’ve been legal forever. The police can use force to defend themselves or other innocents and so can the military. That’s NOT what this is, which is why it was necessary to label it as NEW in front of Congress.
He’s in a battlefield??
It isn’t the “fighting on a battlefield” part that bothers us, it’s the “targeted assassination” part.
If he’s killed while fighting, that’s one thing. If he’s specifically targeted for execution without due process, at the whim of the President, that’s something else entirely.
Hospital staffs do.
Doctors do.
Nurses do.
Health insurance salesmen and other con artists stand in the way by demanding payment for services they do not render. It’s like a protection racket, sanctioned by the government. Perhaps some folks just can’t tell the difference between a doctor and a huckster. Apparently, our president can be included among them.
And you know that for a fact, how, exactly? Because these facts were established in a court of law, where due process was followed, evidence was introduced, and testimony was heard? Or do you believe that Obama has access to information that we are not aware of, and that we need to shut up and trust him?
Would you trust Bush, Cheney or Nixon just because they asked you nicely?
Now you have committed a terrible cognitive error. You have presumed someone guilty of crimes without giving them a chance to defend themselves in a court of law and you have sided with the executioner and approved the killing of one of our citizens just after you deprived them of their rights to defend themselves.
It’s been shown that they will have a weak effect which is probably why they went with them. It’s also only one aspect out of many that was done in a way that actually minimizes potential savings. If we’re going to keep insurance companies they should be regulated like other countries do, rather than leave them free to try yo plunder whatever way they can. We’ll be playing whack-a-mole with them forever.
Piggy backing:
Chris Hedges – One Day Soon All Political Dissent Will be Terrorism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABrAhacd_VA
1:55
Now you have committed a second unforgivable error. You have equated a person’s disagreement and opposition to our nation’s imperial war making as an act of treason. You have crossed over a line and violated that person’s first amendment rights. You have transformed verbal opposition into a crime. We won’t let you go there. You don’t get a pass to do that here.
that’s exactly Mike’s argument, Tom. It no longer is a government of laws, where all men are considered equal before the law… it becomes a government of men and therefore is subject to their personalities, biases, and whims. Fall out of favor with the Grand Poombah and it could be your head on a stick. Very despotic, very medeival, and not American as the Founding Fathers envisioned.
Well, we are at war with the whole world now, so…
You know, you made the point so much nicer than I did.
Thank you. I’ve got to try and improve on that myself.
Sorry Mike. Please see Tom @ 251 for a better rebuttal.
Do you know him?
Did you witness his deeds?
How do you know he is a traitor?
Ho yeah, Obama said so.
This is the very definition of tyranny.
I can’t tell if you’re just f’in with me or does this guy Tom always sound like a 1700′s colonialist?
You do realize Awlaki hasn’t been charged with a crime, much less indicted, and the justifications for assassinating him are argued to be a “state secret,” right?
How is my post at 104 offensive?
Do you deny upward mobility is still possible for some? Do you deny education is a key to that? Do you deny that for most folks time exists to take an interest in their childrens’ education?
This is not about being an elitist, it is about not giving up.
See, if you don’t consider those we’re fighting in AfPak our enemies, then this discussion won’t go anywhere.
As far as some of you are concerned, we’re an occupying imperial force or something.
It isn’t that he’s “clueless”, because everything he did was planned and done intentionally – by him.
He just assumed, as Joe Lieberman did, and thanks to stale advice from Rahm Emanuel, that he could grab enough of the ‘center’ to not have to be concerned about losing our support.
He thought wrong, and is now stomping around like a spoiled brat.
I’m terribly proud of my Progressive and principled brothers and sisters for setting an example of what ‘holding your ground’ means.
Because you’re shrugging off the arguments as “less than persuasive” that some folks, in some home situations, simply cannot do what it is you’re expecting them to do.
And would it surprise you to learn that there are some parents, lots of parents, that are simply unqualified to help? THey wouldn’t know how if they had all the time in the world?
And as for upward mobility, it’s been a slogan for along time that “it’s who you know, not what you know” that gets one ahead. I didn’t make up that slogan, and the fact it’s been around forever indicates there is quite a bit of truth to it, so it comes off as elitist to suggest that “All it takes is hard work to get ahead” when millions, MILLIONS of people have worded hard THEIR WHOLE LIFE and aren’t ahead.
I’m sorry if I’ve angered you, but that post really seemed unlike you. I allmost always disagree with you, but always thought you were genuine and still think you’re probably one of the nicest folks on here (unlike my failures in that area), but this one sent off all kinds of bad impulses in me. It’s like you’re telling others what they’re seeing as reality is not reality, reality is what you’re telling them it is. Elitist.
Washington planners have made them our enemy, but it doesn’t have yo be that way.
Feingold did fine at home, even as the only vote against the Patriot Act in a stacked Senate, when he was doing the right thing and calling out bad Bush decisions and policies.
Once Feingold instead lined up with supporting Obama and being a good Democratic trooper who went along with Obama’s bad decisions and didn’t fight anymore, he quit doing well at home. Pretty much that simple. I still wish him well, but I haven’t responded to the funding requests from he and Leahy and others for a long time and I won’t until they do something I can approve.
Because someone said “that you do to the least of my
Americanbrethren that you do unto me.To write someone off because they oppose our murder machine is a sick, vile, disgusting thought.
So anything goes in AfPak? No rule of law? No due process? If it occurs in AfPak it’s all good? So some poor slob saves up his whole life and takes a vacation to parts of the world he’s never seen, ends up in Pakisatan for a week, gets in a cab and the cabdriver happens to be a known taliban sympathizer, and the military intell. sees this, labels this American as a taliban sympathizer, and offs him.
All good, right?
So, when he’s tied to the kid who tried to blow up the air-liner and encourages more Muslims to do as Hasan did, he’s still considered a good guy?
I get rule of law but when a citizen of the U.S. leaves the country and is openly encouraging individuals to carry out acts of violence against us, he doesn’t deserve to be called a citizen nor should he be treated as such.
I apologize for being harsh with you.
Our country invaded Afghanistan in 2001. American forces have been occupying that country for nine years. The most recent release of records from wikileaks of field documents demonstrates that we have killed at least 20,000 innocent civilians which has resulted in our having few friends there and even more hostile forces arrayed against our troops. The latest Afghan Study Report in sum or in short says we need to leave because our presence creates and recreates an insurgent force which exists only to get our troops out of their country. And, yes, it appears that beyond the initial invasion, our troops presence has been for the purpose of projecting American power.
Do you understand WHY our founders put in the individual consitutional protections that they did? Because it wasn’t to protect the guy who’s tied to the kid who tried to blow up the air-liner. And it wasn’t for the benefit of the street thug to “get off” and be freed.
You really do sound like a Republican on this issue. No wonder you support these Democrats!
He is not in AfPak, he is in Yemen.
Should the government be compelled to prove any of that before they can assassinate an American? Or, is it legal when the President does it?
Treason needs to be proven.
From Glennzilla
Al-Aulaqi isn’t in Afghanistan or Pakistan, he’s in Yemen. I also don’t believe he’s ever taken up arms.
We invaded Iraq without cause and ruined the country. Why occupy it after it’s ruined?
Had precisely that column in mind. Thanks.
Constitutional due process applies to everyone this nation deals with, not just citizens. Otherwise, conventions such as the Geneva Convention apply.
Beyond that is beyond the law.
When the law is conveniently done away with, as in depriving anyone “extra-legally” of their life or their freedom or their “fortunes, such as they might be”, then the rule of law is dead.
Period.
I would like to address the main post which is about Obama’s reaction to his loss of support among Progressives or the the Left or among whomever he is referencing.
I have been working on the Social Security cuts proposed by the Deficit commission’s Simpson, Rivlin, Ryan, Gregg and others. President Obama and the Democratic incumbents have been reluctant to come out and say that they will refuse to cut benefits and to raise retirement ages and that they will solve the slippage in funding through eliminating the FICA cap. This is irrational behavior if they want to win seniors’ votes. And, it is duplicitous because all of the Dem incumbents are making a big stink that it is the Repubs and their privatization schemes which are the problem. The Dems simply are not being honest.
So you Dems, you refuse to do what the people want and need regarding Social Security. And you expect a vote anyway?
“Our country invaded Afghanistan in 2001.”
It’s not like we were trying to occupy them. From my perspective, I thought we had a pretty good reason to go in there.
And, crosses fingers, we’ll begin drawing down in the Summer of 2011 and handing the provinces back to the Afghan Govn’t. So, if your statement:
“The latest Afghan Study Report in sum or in short says we need to leave because our presence creates and recreates an insurgent force which exists only to get our troops out of their country.”
is true, then hopefully it’ll begin to reverse when we start to get out.
Listen, I get it, our country in the past meddled where it shouldn’t have (Iran/Iraq 2003ish), ignored other regions and blindly sided with one side where a more evenhandedly approach may have worked better (Israel/Palestine) and left that region in disarray (AfPak/1985) that helped lead to the situation we find ourselves in now. We’ve got to try and right our wrongs and hopefully give that region back to, however disorganized they might be, a somewhat moderate Afghan administration and get the heck out.
Anyways, I gotta scadaddle for now…
You want to kill him now for something you may tie him to in the future? What might you be tied to in the future?
Yes, I realized that after I posted it.
What DW says.
Which US citizen has sided with which enemy (as defined by the AUMF for Afghanistan or by the AUMF for Iraq?) to kill which of our troops and by doing what?
No one is giving real answers for that, especially not you. I’m not sure al-Awlaki isn’t someone who is guilty of something, but that’s what a court is for, not a predator bomb. Especially since he is located in a country that is supposedly our “friend” and a country were WE, as part of the “Friends of Yemen” are specifically tieing aid to that country’s commitment to making sure all their citizens (and he has dual citizenship) get access to full and fair court proceedings before any penalties are inflicted.
As to your second sentence, who is it that we are fighting? Because I can tell you that to a huge chunk of the Muslim world that watch us as we refuse to release pictures of what we did “to those we fight” and that have watched the thousands of civilians we have “fought” with airstrikes and bombings and night raids gone awry etc. and that have listened to the vague rhetoric of a war against “other” it is pretty clear that what you are asking is that they refuse to support their fellow Muslims in a war on Islam.
If we can have a “war on terror” is there anything that prevents us from having a “war on Islam?” Not really and that is certainly how the lack of leadership in our Congress and Presidency and even our courts for the last 10 years has taken us. To a place where millions of people around the world see our war as a war on Islam, and your construct as saying that someone who side with Iraqi and Afghan infants (those we are killing) has to be a “traitor”
That’s just nuts.
So your point of view is that if someone preaches against US soldiers who kill pregnant women and then carve the bullets out of their abdomens to leave them mutiliated – if someone preaches against those things they are “siding with those we are fighting” REally?
Uh, yeah.
Mike, you’re not getting it. The key word(s) here is(are) “due process”. Or the evasion of it
Thanks for replying. I know I am under tremendous tension now that in several States, members of the peace movement have had their houses searched and have been given grand jury demands to appear. I may have projected onto you that you are equating my right to oppose wars as fitting your personal definition of treason. I apologize for doing that if that is what happened. It is not a crime to oppose war, but it soon may be so and it certainly was so in 1917. In light of these event, I cannot take anything President Obama says seriously, regarding the protection of civil liberties.
Sorry OldGold.
Probably just shouldn’t have responded, would’ve been better. Disregard it all except the hope you have a nice day part. (Oh, and the hope those Democrats in Congress get their collective ass handed to them part, too.)
hello, Mr. want to fight the terrorist!
who kills more wall street banks or afghans?
1 and 7 american are now live in extreme poverty, (I don’t think two airplanes knocking down the twin towers cause this)
the gap between rich and poor is at an all time high! (I don’t think Bin Laden cause this)
maybe the enemy of the USA is already in the USA, and they call themselves corporatist.
do the people in Iraq, Afghan, make USA companies send good american jobs abroad.
The USA military is very, very, effective the WAR in Iraq was over in hours! the same can be said about Afghan.
However, the military industrial complex, that works for wall street, needed to make sure that all the Iraqui Oil and Afghan lithium is under the control of the USA.
The USA military was not built and design to rebuild nations it destroys.
So when people discuss military operations, they need to clarify what they are trying to say.
War has many definitions!
I suspect because only “narcissistic bastards” want the job. :)
“There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don’t know what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president.” –Kurt Vonnegut
The difference between Obama and G. W. Bush is that Obama represents corporate interests while W was corporate interest and understood that he was only playing the president on TeeVee (although he wasn’t as good an actor as Reagan, partly because he knew he didn’t have to be).
I suspect that what we are hearing from Obama lately is nothing much more complicated than the standard authoritarian perspective of someone with a lot of rank on their collar.
The positive side of Obama’s presidency is that more folks might realize there is as much practical difference between our two political parties, at least at the federal level, as there is between Coke and Pepsi.
I suggest agreement resistance as a response.
I agree with zeabow and mrsanfran; President Obama needs more Republican support if he is going to cut Social Security to insignificance. To believe otherwise is to think President Obama is an ignorant man and a foolish politician. The only way to stop the threat against Social Security is for the Democrats that are left to grow filibuster-reinforced backbones. If that is possible at all, we’ll find it out with Social Security. Otherwise, starting in 2011 it will be Katy bar the door.
I suppose only serial killers deserve to be treated as citizens accorded due process of the law with trials and such.
When we start talking about law applying only to those “deserving” to be citizens, well then, we’re toast.
GREAT POST!!!
Hey, I wasn’t put off by what you said. I agree with a lot of it.
I am passionate about young people getting good educations. So, to the extent parents can get involved in making that so, I am all for it. As such, I saw Obama’s PSA message as a good thing and was surprised by eCAHNomics take on it.
As far as the Democrats getting their collective ass handed to them in November, although to a certain degree that may deserve it, I continue to think it would be a bad thing for the most vulnerable in our society to have the GOP in control of Congress and the State capitols.
I agree with nomoreyesterdays. So Obama’s had not even two years, and made some mistakes, I guess its his first Presidency. He is trying and has accomplished some modest goals in regards to policy despite a very unforgiven set of circumstances. I certainly sympathize with feeling disappointed with some turns in this admin but I don’t reflexively blame it on just Obama and throw in the towel, THAT’S WAY TO EASY but apparently as far as many folks on this blog can manage.
And it great folks to talk about drawing our little prideful lines in the sand about not supporting this admin. but don’t expect this to get you anywhere. This is utlimately an act of great petulance on your part.
In reality we have a two party system and the other party IS completely Bat Shit crazy. So if you’d like them in power just do nothing alright, that’s easy, but you forfeit your right to bitch about them when they get power, STFU when things get worse, promise.
Keep the half sane bastards in and at least we can organize and pressure this Admin and the weeny Dems to do the right things. If the other dimwits get control we lose even that possibility.
But somehow from reading this rage here it seems everyone is rather nostalgic for the Bush age from the way they are pouring out hate towards Obama.
Be careful what you pine for people, remember it was a similar petulance for the uncompromising savior ,Nader, that got us GW’s disastrous train wreck in the first place. Guess we can’t just get enough.
Why not blame and pressure the MSM, they never make the Repubs answer for any of their obstruction? Until someone does nothing is going to change.
my understanding is that Awlaki is in Yemen…which is somewhat removed from Afghanistan, or Pakistan for that matter
A minor detail if the whole world is “battlefield”.
Wonder when the battlefield will come to a “Homeland”, as Obama continues to call it, like ours?
Yesterday, most likely …
DW
You da’ man! Well said. I feel exactly the same.
Yep, I know, and believe it or not, I get it.
I just look at it more long term, and believe it would be a good thing for those most vulnerable in our society in the long term if the Democratic Party “gets” the message and returns to its FDR New Deal roots and worse for them long term if these same two parties continue acting in the same ways they’ve been acting that’s led those most vulnerable to have such hard times.
Forget about eleventh dimensional anything. These are bullshit, dilettante politicos who will spin anything. No they don’t want republicans to win in November, and yes, Obama will be a one term President. Pure incompetence. Cynical, craven amateurs.
This seems like a set-up.
I can’t take this serously. (I can, a little, but I’m very suspicious.) For the Nov. 2, 2010 congressional elections, I think the die is cast: the minority-party Republicans will win back the House and Senate. A reverse of 2006 (maybe, maybe not, to a tee).
We’ll see how the Republicans – with their new majorites and their tea-partiers – will run Congress. Should be entertaining. And a disaster. Then we’ll probably see Democrats win back majorities with both – and President Obama will win a landslide re-election – in 2012.
Problem is that both parties are corporatized. (I thank David Sirota, whose Denver, Colorado radio show I’ve recently started downloading, for being this precise in pointing that out.) That is the means, nowadays, by which the two parties operate. They don’t operate exactly the same, of course, but it doesn’t leave room for legislation (for solutions) that need to go in the direction of the left. (Unless there is political will.) Used to be, Republicans were liberal and Democrats were conservative. (Republicans won my home state of Michigan in every election beginning with the party’s first in 1856, all the way through the 1920s, except for 1912 Progressive Party nominee Teddy Roosevelt.) Then, after Richard Nixon and with the arrival of Ronald Reagan, they were flipped. Nowadays the corporations – special interests, banks, lobbyists, et al. – own Washington, D.C. thanks to the piggish greed of the two major parties [more-than-] acquiescing.
I’m intending on voting Green Party. I will do so to aid the Greens with a percentage of the vote (particularly with the governor race in Michigan). And it will also send an important message to the Democratic Party and President Obama: “I can show you folks that I’m capable of refraining from voting for the party.”
“..believe it would be a good thing for those most vulnerable in our society in the long term if the Democratic Party “gets” the message and returns to its FDR New Deal roots…”
I totally agree with your statement.
For those who worry if the GOP does gain control over the House and/or Senate – don’t. Don’t forget, Obama has the final say over what they do for two more years, and, the few Dems left with any courage still have blocking powers over other areas like judicial nominations.
Their taking control might be just the thing to kick some sense into the guts of gullible Democrats and voters.
Maybe then, in 2012, we can try this change thing again with a new President and Congress willing to fight for more more substantive results.
Yep. http://www.stopmebeforeivoteagain.org There was a long essay to this exact point months ago. Right here at FDL. I saved it but I’m not going to hunt for it now. Well worth reading if anyone else tucked it away.
Astrologically speaking, Obama is what his chart says he is, to paraphrase Bill Parcells.
Yep. Amateurs that rode a wave of disgust and resentment against the Gopers after 8 nightmarish yrs. He thought by surrounding himself with Clinton’s has been team he could pull it off but alas the Fates were against him. Worse most of Clinton’s ex-team guys like Summers and Rahm were deeply corrupted and cynical power mongers. Watch how they abandon you now Obama because they can smell what’s coming for you and us. You will spend the next two yrs. fighting off one GOPer investigation after another and we will all be out here trying to find a way to survive. This time however ( unlike in 1994-6) the next two yrs. the GOpers will continue to purposely crash this economy anyway they can. It won’t hurt them or their base ( the wealthy)since a Depression will just give them more opportunities to transfer the wealth of whats left of the Middle class to the Oligarchs. The added benefit being your defeat in 2012 for presiding over the worst failure of a presidency since your predecessor.
I don’t see it that way at all. I perceive it as an attempt to clarify to those who interpret his words differently than he intended.
Also, please someone tell me where I can find his message “Don’t be stupid, vote for me”.
I have great admiration for all the hard work he has done against impossible odds. Never before have we had such a negative pushback as now from opposing forces.
It’s damn hard to swim when the sharks are constantly circling, and where some people believe they are born to rule the rest of us, through the use of Money and Power, and Religion.
Great post DDay! Very gratifying to read so many Firepups defending our analysis against one very persistent troll!
I totally agree with your framing, David, and I have mistrusted Obama on civil liberties since he fucked up on FISA the very month he won the primaries. It is just too funny to watch him pound his spoon on his high-chair tray and shriek at us.
I just need to say
We’re gonna move forward for sure, just not with you, Mr. President, sir. We will be busy for the next two years finding your replacement. We have a middle class to protect from organized criminals in banker’s suits. We have a generation to protect from becoming car-bomb fodder in the never-ending war on terra, terra, terra. You just go on & relax, you can start collecting for your library now.
I absolutely agree with the Vice President. Most of you sound like a bunch of sniveling whiners. What are you complaining about? You are always fantasizing about a super hero president or a magical congress. That will never happen because we elect humans, not mythical persons. Deal with reality and the here and now!!!
The reality is that you have a choice between Democrats who have fought for healthcare, extended unemployment benefits, veterans services, financial assistance for those college students whose parents are unable to write paid in full tuition checks, foreclosure assistance, and on and on.
The other choice would be Republicans, whose only contributions have been saying NO to the above. The Democrats may not be perfect, but they are 100% better than nothing. They will continue working for the poor and working poor, middle class, a quality education for children attending failing schools, which will benefit all Americans, and many other issues.
You sound like spoiled brats who are used to getting everything they want, when they want it. Because your every little whim cannot be instantly gratified, you would cause Democrats to lose elections and deny continued help to those who need and appreciate it. Please think of someone other than yourselves for a CHANGE!
OK, I’m thinking of drone strikes in Pakistan right now.
Did I win?
I wasn’t following politics as much in 2008; does anyone recall if the Republicans told the base to “buck up” for the congressional elections of 2006? (Get out to the polls, you lazy fuck, and vote for our party!)
I’m watching Obama speechify like a progressive in Madison WI from earlier today (the “free” unregulated market was a sham and needs strong regulation), but his claims that he did much of any progressive reforming is same old smoke & mirrors.
The Wall St. reform they passed was weak and kept the Ponzi Casino running. as we all know.
I’m amazed that he still speaks like a progressive in public rallies but governs as a corporatist and thinks his “whining” base will not notice.
No. The normal folks don’t last.
This is the real Obama. Always has been. I only voted for him because I thought the real McCain is worse. And I’ll stop there.
I always thought his speeches were boring and, believe me, I tried. I could not listen to him during the campaign and I couldn’t figure why so many people thought he was a great speaker. About three minutes was all I could take: turgid and so damn full of himself it was agonizing even to watch him.
I guess it works to tell people what they want to hear but I could never figure out how he proposed to get from where we were to Wonderland. And here it turns out, he didn’t know, either.
That’s a lie. They do it all the time.
(In passing. There are over 300 comments, and I haven’t read most of them.)
I wonder if the administration isn’t stirring up conflict in the hope of getting media attention and getting turnout. I think that makes sense, and may even be a workable strategy. It also moves the Democratic further to the right, which appears to be a goal of this administration.
My neighbor used to have a dog that liked to roll in other dogs’ shit. This reminds me of Obama’s recent insane behavior. What’s next? Will he smear himself with shit and start babbling, “My career, my career, you fucking assholes!”