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I’ve been banking on gridlock for a few months now, although I don’t necessarily agree with this article’s analysis as a reason.
Republican gains in U.S. elections next month boost the odds of Congress letting Bush-era tax cuts die at year end, a worst case scenario for Wall Street, and the opposite of the party’s stated goals.
Prospects had seemed assured for months that the current Democratic-controlled Congress would strike a deal to extend the rates before the end of 2010.
But now, with Republicans looking likely to take control of the House of Representatives and gain substantial influence in the Senate, tax policy watchers say neither side will be in a mood to bargain in the post-election “lame duck” session.
“I don’t think Democrats are motivated to extend them and Republicans won’t have the political base during a lame-duck to extend them all for as long as they like,” said Scott Hodge, president of the right-leaning Tax Foundation.
Whether the tax cuts get retroactively extended will depend on the margins Republicans manage to get in Congress. But even if they miraculously get control of the Senate, which isn’t looking likely at this point, they certainly won’t get close to having a 60-vote majority for extending all the tax cuts. The numbers just don’t add up. Republicans have already backtracked down to a temporary extension, bargaining to do the same kind of permanent-extension-by-inches that the Bush tax cuts themselves were supposed to engender.
Will this cause a shock in the economy, as every Wall Street analyst is claiming? Well, the income tax changes will be as minimal to the weekly paychecks of workers as the decreases in paychecks from the Making Work Pay tax credit. Everything else beyond income wouldn’t actually hit the economy for over a year. I don’t necessarily think the tax cuts should expire, but I’m not seeing a huge impact on January 1. And anyone being honest about it would agree. Some of the tax cuts at the low end would be hard to lose. But they are in the minority.
These tax rates have been in place for ten years. It’s been the worst time for job growth in postwar history. Let’s not pretend they’re so central to economic growth.
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How this goes down probably depends on whether Republicans win the House. I have no doubt that the corporatists in the Senate will find some way to extend all the tax cuts, at least temporarily. The Hill whip count actually has at least 9 “Dems” on the record in support of an extension, enough to break a filibuster.
This would kill a struggling economy.
How? If the cost to get rid of the tax cuts for the wealthy is to let them all go, then I’m all for it.
If the lame duck weasels don’t “extend the tax cuts” post-election, you can count on the newly-elected even-more-weasels to pass legislation doing so in the next Congress.
Yeah, that trickle down, tax cut thing has worked SO well thus far. i guess they’re just waiting, waiting for it to kick in.
Since when does the GOP ever need 60 votes for anything. All they need in the Senate is 50 plus Republican VP Biden.
This is why, of course, that it wasn’t brought up pre-election.
Pelosi’s BS about it being that the mean ol’ Rethugs would spin it as a tax increase is just that. It could have been a signature issue for the Dems if the Rethugs held it up to get it extended to the rich – which several indicated they wouldn’t dare do.
@5 In order for reconciliation to take place, the policy must be revenue neutral, which the tax cuts are not. They will need a solid majority for the policy to pass.
If it’s a choice between letting the Bush tax cuts expire and extending the tax cuts for the wealthy, I hope the Democrats in Congress allow all the tax cuts expire.
At the risk of feeding our troll…
Funny, when we had a 80 + top rates in the top brackets, and with the top brackets paying effectively 50-70 % of their incomes in taxes (source: WSJ) the economy didn’t struggle at all, let alone be “killed”. Those were the years of the Great American Prosperity, the years when the economy boomed for everyone like never before in world history.
I take it history isn’t your strong point?
I hope all the tax cuts expire too. With the Obama “middle class tax cut”, still most of the dollar value of the cut will go to the rich, plus Obama plans to only raise capital gains taxes back up from 15 % to only 20 %, instead of the Clinton-era 28 % rate. Dividend income would likely only be taxed by Obama at 20 %, unlike the 39.6 % top rate under Clinton. As the very wealthy get most of their income via “investments” (aka the Wall Street casino) this is a secret for-the-rich tax cut embedded in the Obama proposal.
Bottom line is that the tax code should not be preferentially penalize wages more than it does “investments”, often of dubious merit to the economy. If you want to offer tax relief to those near the bottom, the best way to do it is to restore all the early Clinton-era rates and then expand dramatically the standard deductions and personal exemptions (at least by 50 %). It is scandalous that we tax the money that poor people need for necessities to achieve lower tax rates on the rich.
StewartM
This should provide Obama with a perfect opportunity to introduce The Obama Middle Class Tax Cuts in his State of the Union address early next year. It’s how things should have been done in the first place; any thoughts of Democrats getting credit for extending something called “The Bush Tax Cuts” was political malpractice, and idiocy.
The political crew in the west wing couldn’t negotiate their way out of a kindergarten moshpit, so I don’t expect it to work out my way, but it’s HOW things should be done, anyway.
You take it right; it’s all Limbaugh, all Hannity, all Beck talking points alla time with that one.
Do you mean Middle Class Tax Cuts for those making more than $1 million?
Under normal conditions, the expiration of middle class tax cuts may not be terrible in and of themselves, but under an inflationary scenario ( prices for commodities are rising steeply) they will make difficult for many to keep their heads above water.
Me too. Hell, Americans didn’t even know they got a tax cut.
No matter how the elections turn out, if they extend tax cuts for the rich, I will have voted for my last Democrat ever.
first of all they are not tax cuts and that’s why the democrats lose, they use republican spin when discussing the issue, they are tax redistributions into the pockets of the wealthy at the expense of the working class
now back to this case, the tax redistributions will expire, the economy will recover some what because of those expired tax redistributions, the republicans will claim they were the reason the economy recovered and they will push for more of their insane redistributive class war
I thought the expanding deficit was going to kill the economy.
where on earth are you seeing a recovery?
I’m seeing no recovery now, I am seeing a slight recovery when the bush tax redistribution expires, there will be more government funds, more projects, less anticipation from government workers, more spending by those laborers
I am saying because of the redistribution expiring the economy will do better
Two items:
1. I thought one reason they could have passed HCR with a PO through reconciliation was that it would have reduced the deficit. Isn’t that the opposite of revenue neutral?
2. Regardless of what the rules say, hasn’t history shown us that when the GOPers want something done, it will get done?
And David: Worry not, my son. The Dems will find a way to extend the tax cuts for the very wealthiest while ending them for everyone else. Hey, it’s what Dems do. (Fuck their base.)
If I understand correctly, the “rich” part of the cuts will cost a trillion in deficit. But those for the rest of us cost TWO trillion. So letting them all expire “saves” three trillion. I get the political environment, honestly they should all be expiring.
obsurd
the middle class assets given to the wealthy being returned to the middle class will energize the economy
I want my frigging money back already, they’ve had it for far too long and I need it to spend
THAT will HELP the economy not hinder
in case you didn’t know it, YOU paid for those tax redistributions, they didn’t eminate from thin air
they came out of YOUR pocket unless you are among those incredibly few top three percent who have more money then they can possibly spend
it was a rediculous claim making believe giving these people MY money, YOUR money, your KIDS money could POSSIBLY help the economy
absolutely insane
He uses the correct talking points and only mentions deficits in the context of helping working people.
off to bed, see all later
Krugman pointed out that having tax cuts as part of the stimulus took necessary money out of infrastructure and other real job creating parts of it because tax cuts are not stimulative. He was spot on. And how many Republicans eventually voted for the bill with all of those wasteful tax cuts? 3? Heckuva job.
A fair and right income tax policy: 50% over 500k, cut to 25% if from NEW operations only, 0% if operation is in a ghetto.
That addresses the deficit, a proportionate burden put back on the wealthiest during crisis fiscal times like now, and real incentives to start new businesses.
Did you add many-fold to your wealth during the Reagan/Bush era when upper tax tiers were slashed in both 1981 and 2001?
I didnt think so. Emergency times are emergency times, and fair is fair…
– Balkingpoints / www
On Bloomberg TV yesterday, Biden came close to saying that letting the tax cuts expire was off the table. He said there would be a deal before the end of the year. That’s bad because it means they are prepared to make major concessions to the Republicans.
What I am seeing is another bailout of the Banks via Freddie, Fannie, and FHC.
Reconciliation must reduce the deficit – tax hikes would only take 50 votes, for example. And there was no FY2010 budget resolution, thought presumably Paul Ryan can add reconciliation instructions to a budget and shove it through with blue dog support.
yup
you need to fund the projects that will rebuild the middle class assets known as “infrastructure”, our assets were squandered and neglected with the depraved redistribution of our money to the wealthiest people on the planet
we fund those projects and with them put some real, gainful, living wage “help wanted” signs out on the streat and this economy recovers in months
IF that’s what obama finds his way to do however if he does what fuckno suggests then those funds will go right back to the wealthy and will serve us no good
(and fuckno might very well might, he is in the banks pockets after all)
anyway, must retire from this thread, see all later
Anytime I read those words– about Republicans regaining control of the House, I think back to early 2009. The GOP was in total disarray. How did this happen, I think? Like Teddy says- total incompetence in the West Wing. And Oval Office. Anyway, it’s still rrrrrreally hard to believe they’re going to be taking control of the House. Speaker Boner? Ack!
I’m cool with Boner as long as he drafts the articles of impeachment, and makes them stick.
Impeachment based on what?
He’ll be 3rd in line for the presidency. Scaaaary.
Racketeeringt, treason, criminal negligence, – the best thing we can hope for is total gridlock.
But didn’t Oilbummer say he was going reich wing after the election? So how the hell is he gonna stop the Chimp’s tax cuts for the rich? I don’t see it. And I’ll predict right here that he’ll never let Dim Son’s tax cuts sunset. Bank on it, folks. The corporatists never do anything to help the little man. This is America after all.
Impeachment is for high crimes and misdemeanors; gotta be more specific than what you said. Please make such a case.
Do you actually yearn for a dystopia? It would be interesting for you to for once describe some result that is not tragic, much less describe how that would be achieved.
So in other words, you hate Obama so he should be impeached? I’m no fan either but Obama isn’t a criminal if Bush and Cheney weren’t.
Racketeering? yep. Every politician in the United States.
Treason? That’s a pretty broad term. I’m no lawyer but I’m sure you have to define a treasonous act.
Criminal Negligence? Okay. Again I’m pretty sure somebody’s going to ask what criminal negligence?
You know I’m no Obama fan but what you’re suggesting is just a wee bit reflexive I think.
Oops. Looks like I owe Kelly a drink. Cheers!
The American Empire is done.
Tomorrow’s Book Club will be a test of FDL censorship.
Mwah!
*clink*
We can’t afford to renew any of these tax cuts. We couldn’t afford them in the first place.
Off the top of my head, the cuts for everybody amounts to $3 trillion over 10 years, the extra cut for the wealth(ier) is an additional $700 billion over 10 years.
We can’t afford any of it. Tax cuts need to be paid for with tax increases.
Now, if you want to renew the tax cuts for everybody and raise the upper rates back to 70%, adjust the AMT, etc., you could probably come up with a revenue-neutral package that I could support.
I love the way the media has all adopted the “you can’t raise taxes in a recession” talking point. Of course you can, what you can’t do is cut social spending. You pay for the increased social spending with increased borrowing (we’ve pushed that as far as we should already) and increased taxes.
Even if we did impeach Oilbummer, we’d get Biden, another vile corporatist. They all suck.
The only solution is what the French are doing. Into the streets. But the morons in this country would never do it. Read the yahoo boards relating to the French strikes and you’ll get an idea. The sheeple in the US always side with their oppressors.
You must be kidding Kelly,
Would you remind me again what Clinton’s high crimes and misdemeanors were?
I must congratulate your excellent sense of ignoring difficult challenges.
And that impeachment was ridiculous.
As for yearning for dystopia, where do you get that idea?
do you think that debasing the dollar by over 50% will result in a new American century?
That’s all we need, stop him from further damage.
I guess that means there are no specific, provable, impeach worthy accusations coming.
First, your easier case is to make an impeachment claim against Obama, in reality, on reality based terms.
Next, I challenge you to offer a positive path for America.
Just offer it.
come on dday – WTF does 60 votes have to do with the thugs getting what they want?
like our pathetic sacks of shit would filibuster.
IIRC the charges were perjury (regarding a blowjob) and obstruction of justice (regarding the perjury regarding the blowjob).
Since the Bush tax cuts have been in effect, only two PGA Tour players have self-identified as Democrats. Two out of a few hundred. Hey, maybe a lot of pro athletes who are Republicans only for the tax cut privilege will come out as the Democrats their parents were.
I would be more inclined to push for the impeachment of Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia and Chief Justice Roberts. We know that they have all made decisions despite having enormous conflicts of interest and we know Roberts and Thomas lied to congress. Why go after Obama? Go after the people with the power.
The game is rigged. I say this over and over. It’s so fucking obvious what has to be done here and in Europe. Tax the rich. But none of these fuckers want to do this because the elite want our money. Simple as that.
The French understand what is happening, how Sarko is trying to screw them. The elite do what they do. They are amoral. They are the lazy ones. They push paper and don’t work–yet they want us, productive labor, to pay for their gambling debts. You hear that White House lackeys reading this–a lot of us know the score!
Recognizing that we are in a class warfare.
Recognizing that many ‘baggers have legitimate grievances.
Making every effort to create a united front against the Plutocrats.
The World is decoupling from America. 1.6T into domestic stocks, and 5.4T flowing out to emerging and developing countries. The the Dollar is on it’s way to being referred to as dreck. This is pretty much a’ fait accompli’, the dollar will likely be debased to 50% it’s value, while most other currencies will suffer far less. Would you expect any less from a World gone flat?
We cannot count on the French alone. Cannot all be lilly livered lefties! Our dissociation from reality is verging on willfulness, a deer in the headlights effect, – I know it’s not Stockholm syndrome. So, what gives?
Got to stop being a fucking news mill, and start connecting the dots. Even if I’m wrong, the facts are available, and you should draw your own connections. Special Drawing Rights are real. The imposition of Neo Feudalism is being advanced as we diddle. Social Security is a goner, Medicare is a goner, minimum wage – goner, the idea of COLA is out; less than 10% unemployment is the new normal (if we’re lucky) as is continued bailouts of the Banksters; implementation of some form of cap and trade (just another Ponzi gift to Banksters); public, fee generating, properties will be sold to Wall Street, this and more (help make a list) is becoming the new normal. Once the squid gets ahold of something – one might as well fughetaboutit – or not!
The attendant rot, is a systematic abridgment of civil liberties, unbridled encroachment of corporate money into the public sphere, a Straussian application of law, etc.
Utopia, or dystopia, you decide.
I will not concede your point, but just for the sake of discussion, let’s say you are right.
You think we need to impeach the President? Really?
I still don’t get how wasting time attempting to impeach Obama, who is at best only peripherally associated with the things you list, is going to help achieve your aims?
For not looking into Bush’s war crimes, – absolutely!
Impeachment as a tool to stop further eradication of American workers and their families.- I’m all for impasse.
Nihilism, because we don’t know what else to do.
Edit: You realize, don’t you, that you are making Newt Gingrich’s case, right?
That says it. You don’t actually have a vision for progress or some way forward out of the morass.
So why should anybody listen to you?
That’s not nihilism!
Nihilism is what our government is perpetrating. Trust me, I may not always express myself well, but I am on the side of the working Americans, who thanks to the Kleptocrats are looking at a 3rd world status.
The last time the US enjoyed its fullest prosperity and happiest optimism was when there were only 16 teams in baseball’s Major Leagues, and there were no Championship Series playoffs. I don’t know how many teams there are now, 50? 70? It’s not possible to be and stay Number One and also follow Everything Going On. We made a devil’s bargain. Besides, what’s so terrible about not being Number One?
I have been advocating to let them expire for a long time but always thought that is not very popular with the middle class. But as someone pointed out, the Pres can make that a big issue at the state of the union and hang it around the repug necks. Only thing I worry about is can they override his veto? PLus he should immediately ask for an infrastructure project to spend those extra bucks and create jobs.
Sooo bring everything to a screeching halt as a way to prevent further damage? And then what? Hope that when it starts back up again that they’ll have had a change of heart? Or that we will remain static forever? Because things will have to start up again and removing the president, (even should that be possible), is like amputating an gangrenous finger as a way of treating bone cancer. Forgive me but I don’t understand this strategy at all. Maybe I’m stupid.
Is that all you have to say?
I do have a vision of some of what needs to be done. You are all opposed to it.
What’s your vision? And be realistic, because the next two years will see a slaughter of the American middle class.
Into the streets, into the streets. That’s the answer. We just don’t have the numbers yet, but it may happen if things get worse.
Difference between now and the Thirties is that we don’t have an FDR to meliorate the excesses of capitalism. And neoliberal globalization is far more toxic than what people faced in the Depression. Still, people power is possible. I still believe that. The French give me hope. If we could only convince people here that they are getting fucked by the corporatists. It may well happen anyway, with unemployment rising.
You want to bring the government to a screeching halt. It’s not your fault when what’s left of the mechanism goes kaput.
“Who woulda thunk?”
You have not articulated a way out of this mess aside from calling for impeachment of Obama.
If you have something else that “you [we] are all opposed to” say it.
I resent that. I listen to fuckno because fuckno’s wits are informed, keen, and alert.
Margret, I have seen nothing other than partisan kumbaya coming from FDL’s old guard. – Nothing other than knee jerk reactions to ‘baggers, and the chasing of MSM news scraps.
I happen to believe that there’s very little time, – I hope I’m wrong.
Sorry, Margaret.
I must have been channeling or something.
If you have a vision then I’m not seeing it. HOW does impeaching Obama do anything other than to gratify people like fuckno? Help me to understand.
Resent away. I’m still waiting for the actual proposed solution beyond impeaching Obama.
If that’s part of a solution, fine. I’m all ears. But nothing presented by “fuckno” is a solution, aside from “Fuck, No.”
This is why Nader is worthless. He has all the right teardown strategies, and not one notion of how to build.
Got to make dinner for the kid.
Perhaps if the censors allow, I should indeed try my hand at writing a diary.
I hope to see you at tomorrow’s Book Club.
The Dems destroyed the Nader movement.
Make a nice dinner for the kid.
Hopefully it has more substance than the answers you didn’t make here.
~~~Let’s try to remain civil, please.~~~
I share your concern about Ss, medicare and minimum wage but not to that extent. I don’t think they are gone. I am fearful the cuts in SS or medicare will be far too deep at a time I think they should be increased. As to the dollar, I have no idea what that is about. I do suspect that if the dollar falls relative to other currencies we will have more exports and that is good. That is the game the Chinese are playing.
As to impeachment,not so much. I don’t know what that would serve other than a circus for the right wing. Now if you want to try that on a supreme or two, I might get behind that, but even that is a huge distraction to getting us back on track.
Then why are you here? Forgive me again but nothing you are saying is making any sense to me. I agree that things are pretty crappy right now and that we are teetering on a knife’s edge but I don’t see how impeaching Obama addresses ANY of the problems than have brought us here. That’s just a huge distraction from the actual systemic issues that need to be addressed. Obama is just a symptom. Nor do I see how coming to FDL is helping you achieve your goals since so many of us fail to meet your standards or behave in a way that you believe is helpful or appropriate.
I don’t much care who destroyed it, if it was indeed destroyed.
I care that a teardown specialist, without aspirations for recovery, is put to rest.
Of course, that could be said of many of our more recent Presidents.
Impeachment, if you managed to trump up a charge, would accomplish nothing but waste time. There won’t be the votes in the Senate to convict.
Why do you require of fuckno an “actual proposed solution”? There may be none; there likely isn’t any silver bullet. And you should know that. Still and all, fuckno has suggested several tactics to wake up some sectors.
That’s what I’m thinking. Like cutting off your right hand to treat a broken leg.
I don’t claim there are any silver bullets – at all.
fuckno @70
So, what is it?
I can’t speak for Kelly but fuckno is the one who brought up impeaching Obama and then couldn’t explain to me how that would do anything to address the problems that he laments. For me it’s about reflexive behavior. fuckno wants to impeach Obama because it would be gratifying to fuckno.
Impeachment is not a solution to anything. But while I am on the subject, Issa may do that for you anyway once they take over the House. I don’t know as though fuckno has any solutions. He has pointed out some areas of concern but no solution to them, unless I missed them.
True. But Nader was right ten years ago about the course of the Dems. Now we have an even more reich wing Dem party. Back in the day, they never considered destroying public education and Soc Sec. Barry OilyBomber is now complicit in the final evisceration of a century of progress re worker’s rights, public education, social safety net, etc. He’s the false prophet. The Chimp couldn’t get away with the shit that this empty suit is about to get away with.
With OilyBomber in charge we are in grave danger of losing everything.
thers has late night up
Indeed.
Exactly. Substance free claims, and with no debate rigor.
Just instantly gratifying rancor. That’s all I got from the the whole screed.
And cornered, fled.
That’s the point of debating, demanding back up of positions.
I appreciate the frustration. I share it.
But trashing the whole remaining construct rarely if ever results in something ‘pleasant’.
Unpredictability can be good, but chaos is actually more predictable because we have examples.
I think you can bet on a return. We all have to eat.
Okay. This isn’t a debating society — far from it. But it sounds inflammatory to make of “a vision of some of what needs to be done” into requiring “an actual proposed solution”.
fuckno SAID he had a vision, a solution, then failed to offer it other than impeaching Obama. How is that Kelly “requiring” an actual proposed solution?
You can’t speak for Kelly, but you can speak for fuckno. I understand. It’s why I love this place. I can’t speak for fuckno, but I would bet it’s probably why he loves this place too.
I think the idea of impeachment is a non starter if you want things to improve. But he is clearly concerned about a number of things and with guys like Koch running things they may not be so wild. But I don’t know what he wants.
Isn’t it obvious what needs to be done? The electoral process has been corrupted by the vile corporatists. The system cannot be redeemed in any sense. You need to work outside it to achieve change. I know people are scared about this prospect, but it must happen! Direct action is the only way to do it. Look at history.
Um, and the vision is??? impeach Obama?
I don’t think a ‘vision’ = a solution. I know that “some of what needs to be done” doesn’t mean anything like “an actual proposed solution”. Show me how I’m mistaken, but be nice about it, please.
When did I speak for fuckno? I’m referencing HIS comment @70! Any of this getting through to you? Why are you determined to be obtuse? I know that you’re not.
If impeachment were a solution to anything crucial, Constitutional, if we would halt wars or institute sane public policy…
But it’s not. It’s bordering on vengeful.
And that’s an opinion based on the tone of the discussions here, and the empty pockets of those who want it, but haven’t a direction to go from there.
The only real solution to what we face is public financing of elections. The money has to come out of the system because no matter who wins, they are beholden to their donors rather than their constituents. That’s my solution.
How should I know? You were asking a rhetorical question I gather. Or you should ask fuckno.
And the perjury charge is debatable, since it wasn’t a lie material to the case being investigated, or so I’ve been told (repeatedly) by my usually-unreliable source.
Ok well that would take impeachment off the table anyway.
The problem I see with that is that it requires a lot of congresscritters to admit that they didn’t recognize when they were being lied to. Loss of face is far worse to them than loss of seat.
But how likely is that? If we can’t even get universal health care–how can we get public financing of elections? None of the elected crooks will ever do it. The system is too rotten. At one time I thought it was possible, but it is too far gone for redemption.
“fuckno wants to impeach Obama because it would be gratifying to fuckno.”
Maybe that’s not speaking for fuckno as much as empathizing with fuckno. Although it sounds mostly like mind-reading.
I agree it ain’t gonna happen with our current congress but it makes more sense than impeaching Obama over a pretend crime.
Well, I can see that you are determined to pretend to be obtuse this evening. Goodnight to you. :)
My general question is this:
What if, the market goes tits up, the economy stalls, unemployment rises to above 20%, Congress starts heeding the IMF’s austerity prescriptions. S.S and Medicare will be assaulted, staple inflation will start seriously taxing the 50 million who barely survive below poverty, food stamps get cut, unemployment insurance will be allowed to expire, Health Insurance premiums keep rising, another Bank bailout gets past the people, the Foreclosure scam will be swept under the carpet, and God only knows how the decoupling of the International community -currency wars, potential break up of the eu into north and south, China, Pakistan, on and on….- will affect our experience.?
All I can say is that the next two years will be nothing like those that any one of us has experienced. This will be unchartered territory.
Can we for once engage such a scenario? Because, that is what we should be organizing for, imo.
I guess I’m off to cobble together a diary, based on the above scenario, which I believe to be more likely than just another 2 year long silly season.
You’re right. It is a question for fuckno.
No road map of any kind was offered absent some vague “impeachment” and “I’m all for impasse.”
That’s not difficult to understand. That’s what Republicans want, and is handily evident from the Tea Bagger faction to the mainstream faction of the Republicans.
I completely share the frustrations of “we suck less” as regards the Democrats. They indeed suck, and suck less.
The actual 2008 platform of the Dems is an easy jumping off point to say what to do to fix things. This one is fake and fixed to this cycle, not this one which they actually ran on [PDF]
Just doing what they said would be a vast improvement.
Have impeachable offenses been committed? I don’t know.
Would the administration of domestic public policy or foreign policy change in any way if this President is impeached? IMHO, no.
Would money suddenly stop influencing politics? No.
I’m just saying.
She isn’t speaking for idjit either., You’re the one putting words into everyone else’s mouth.
And how would impeachment help anything, anyway?
(Not to mention: fuck Nader and the white elephant he rode in on.)
I see impeachment as damage control, no more, no less.
I agree, it’s pretty unlikely but let’s take it in context. What makes more sense to you: An impeachment of a president that isn’t going to happen and wouldn’t help if it did or the impeachment of SCOTUS justices that ain’t gonna happen but would go a long way to solving the current political crisis?
Fuckno, I think about this every day. It is a real concern. Good post.
Again, how in hell does impeaching Obama address that?
I don’t know how to respond other than to say, I hope not.
Whether I’m being obtuse or not, I’m not determined to be. But I am very pissed off that fuckno’s being hectored as some unwelcome troll instead of being accorded the respect that all useful participants here should get. So what if someone ejaculates an outrageous proposal prematurely? Fuckno loves this place like a lot of us do. That’s most important to me.
*kisses*
Margaret, I’m against impeachment. I’m for movement building outside the electoral system. This means getting in the face of the powers that be. Literally. Massive strikes and demonstrations a la the French AND building our own organizations outside the Dem/Repug/elite infrastructure.
It’s rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!
I’m an unwelcome TROLL now? Man, I think you’ve had a bit too much of something. Or is it Kelly that you are calling an unwelcome troll? Either way, that’s not just off base, that’s out of the ball park and back into the locker room.
We’re on our way to replacing the Dollar with Special Drawing Rights. That, as I understand, will put US smack into a developing world status.
No that is foolish. It serves no purpose and I have no idea what damage control you can justify.
Hey! 95% of blogging is showing up.
That’s all fine.
I don’t reject fuckno, I REJECT HIS ARGUMENTS. And am just saying, back them up.
If it’s just opinion, say so, and that’s “live let live” territory. That’s like “I hate garlic.” Not “Garlic is the end of civilization as we know it – end of American Empire.”
There’s a difference there.
Think about it, help come up with some solutions. There’s little to lose in being prepared, and if I’m wrong, we’ll just be ruled by a Plutocracy.
Damn. Scary shit. I read somewhere that we are now considered a developing second world nation.
You weren’t moderated for that slur?
I am not into finance so much. What exactly are special drawing rights and where did you get that info? How does it replace the dollar? You mean like a check?
you know I just don’t get the problem yet so I have no solutions.
How about context first.
I presented what I believe is coming down the track. You apparently are an undying optimist. Tell me why my fears are unjustified?
Huh???? Not you. I didn’t write anything to suggest that you’re a troll.
~~~ModNote: No one here is a troll. We have a very contentious issue at hand.
It would be great if we respected each other’s words and intentions.~~~
It’s the end of the Dollar’s supremacy. A basket of currencies and refusal to back the American criminality on the world stage. Ask Soros.
Oops. Taking that whole comment down. My bad. I misread it and I apologize for that. Sleepy and wound up I expect.
hey enough already. Nighty night.
There’s a real possibility that having rejected Keynesian solutions, this ship will go down because of the austerity measures. That scares the shit out of me. The political climate is so right wing that no spending will be tolerated even if we go further down the shitter. That’s a prescription for disaster. Sort of what happened in the Thirties.
I don’t know about your fears. I do know what current conditions are, and I do believe that there are remedies avalible for the problems we have right now, which include:
-Taxing the rich at pre-Bush levels
-Increasing regulations on financial transactions by merely restoring Glass-Steagall
-Repealing NAFTA
-Creating a new WPA like jobs program
-Enhancing such a WPA program by giving tax credits to Wind and Geothermal energy producers
-Slashing the Pentagon budget by 50%
-Withdrawing troops from all Muslim theaters
That’s what I mean by vision.
Yeah, Kelly, but that is wishful thinking. That sort of ‘vision’ is standard pablum. My 11 year old has that vision as well. But under my scenario, – I hope to be completely wrong – it’s useless. You are proposing a generational project, on assumptions that little will change in the mean time.
I just caught that before I left. So do you think China would like a basket of currencies as opposed to t bonds? I mean if you have a t bond you can get any basket you want. And is the basket really bad? Pick it up another day. Maybe someone will post on it. I personally do not fear that. But need more info. And is that going to happen in the next two years or twenty years? The risk here is whether China keeps buying our bonds. If they do not, interest rates will surely rise. But what in hell else are they going to buy? O I know a basket.
I see.
Concrete ideas are “pablum.”
Impasse is your desired outcome.
Yeah, it’s just a comment board. So, it should allow for brainstorming once in a while. A lot of us are experienced commenters and board readers. Some of us know if we ignore someone’s comment, it’s the equivalent of disparaging it, as though it’s unworthy of development or attention.
You really think none of these remedies would work? I’d like to know why. I like what you have to say, as well as the other posters.
It’s not just China, it’s all the emerging Nations, as well as much of EU. It’s a done deal, the question is when and how to ease it in. Currently the date is set for 2018, – I believe it will be much sooner. The Empire is dying and the Captains of Industry are abandoning the ship with all the loot.
How could they work when the Global Finance, since Clinton, owns our Government?
I mean, who is going to pass all of Kelly’s vision?
Right now the momentum is moving in the opposite direction, no?
On Real News, I just watched a debate between Peter Schiff and Doug Henwood. Schiff, a capitalist pig, said he is moving his money and operations off-shore. So I get what Fuck No is trying to convey here–that the rich fucks are forsaking the US for foreign markets. All the money (ie our money) is leaving this country.
Fair enough. For the purposes of your question, I grant your premise.
How does impeaching the President, electing literally crazy people solve it?
Which is why I said you had only a dystopic viewpoint, and no way forward.
You still haven’t offered one that is not dystopic.
Dystopia is not my dream, but it’s looking more and more like it may well become our new reality. Neo Feudalism was not just a throw away post on FDL. It was, however, treated as such.
You still haven’t offered an alternative.
Please define crazy people. They’re not crazy, they are corrupt.
Crazy people: Republicans. Every last one of them.
In my opinion no sane investor will leave worlds biggest & best market even at this point or any time in the future as long as we are worlds biggest economy. It is all just bluff and bluster to gain more tax related concessions from the government.
Honestly, at this moment I believe the realistic scenario is to let all the tax cuts to expire. If any opening in the window is allowed to help out the main street with tax cuts forget about Republicans, Democratic senators like Sen. Nelson and Sen. Lincoln will try to get usual tax cut for billionaire Christmas gifts and make the whole exercise meaningless and its result worse than the result we get by inaction and grid-lock.
Yes, but we must fight it! We can’t accept serfdom. I know if things get bad, I will be out there. Solidarity is our only hope, as I see it.
I am not here to dispense solutions. I am here to hopefully engage the brain trust of FDL to help come up with ideas without reverting to knee jerking.
I happen to believe that the left/right dichotomy is precisely what is allowing Washington to keep us where they want us.
Won’t you help, or are you satisfied with partisanship forevah?
blinkered partisanship = impasse.
Then I think, you are part of what ails us.
What are you basing your rosy opinion on, because all the facts say otherwise.
Hope you are right. I mean, I despise capitalism–but a wholesale collapse will hurt many people.
The problem with your view is that these capitalist pigs want cheap labor and they can’t get it here. (Plus we have no manufacturing base.) Now, if the Chinese and other countries develop a strong labor movement, the capitalist pigs might be forced to come back here.
The question function of your premise is clever, but you’re not paying attention, or do not know of what I do, or have done in the past.
It was quite un-partisan of me to protest and deliver the FDL petition to Bennet’s office at the end of the health care debacle.
I am a firm believer, and activist for principle, not party, and am absolutely unwelcome these days in CO Dems.
There is no problem with our economic system. Let me invoke FDRs famous statement. Only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
Only one sector of our economy is sustaining the rest of the economy. Government with its mandatory Social Security payments made due to savings by the seniors in their working years.
Progressive taxation is in diminished form. Rich pay less than their secretaries, confirmed fact. Thankfully we still have progressive taxation so that taxes can be applied to those with capacity to pay instead of VAT taxes. Main street does not have money to spur economy. So this can be fixed by Government action on progressive taxes.
Companies pay little or no taxes. There is a bloomberg article yesterday showing how top companies with shell accounts in the tax haven countries like cayman, bermuda etc skip taxes. This can be fixed by government action. In addition companies are sitting on record cash surpluses playing the bailout game with wall street. This again can be fixed with Government action on taxes.
So if companies spends and main street gets capacity to spend we will have true market recovery. That is where the optimism comes from.
You don’t need to name corrupt Democratic or Republican politicians – you would do better trying to name those who are not corrupt, because you only need a maximum of two hands.
But crazy?
Name one Republican pol who:
Does not bow down to Rush Limbaugh-
Think women should be supplicants of the state to determine their reproductive destiny-
Thinks the Patriot Act is swell, that Guantanamo should be enlarged, thinks that waterboarding is not torture…
Shall I go on?
Just because you are not welcomed by Third Way Democrats, says nothing about your allegiances. The really crazy thing here is, that your utopia and my utopia may not be that far off. Yet by following some of our tete a tete encounters, an objective party would have to conclude that we are somehow at opposite ends of the spectrum.
As, I said – I’ll try my hand at a diary, and I do hope you’ll join in.
In my opinion we have manufacturing base but is moth-balled. With NAFTA it was traditional Republicans who as the manufacturer employers who were most affected with their companies getting moth-balled. I think we will have a better chance of bringing these moth-balled facilities into action with Republican support.
Okay, now how do you get someone like Barry OilyBomber to do the right thing and tax the rich? The dude is a puppet for the rich. This is the problem. I just don’t see it happening, even if we hit bottom. OilyBomber is an adherent of trickle on economics. He makes it clear that only business can save us in every speech I hear.
Keeping the child credit at $1000 per child instead of the Clinton $500 per child – plus keeping the split up of the Clinton 15% bracket into a 10% bracket and a 15% bracket -
is all that is needed to make 80% of the population happy -
toss in the marriage penalty correction and you have 88% of the population happy.
The 25% going to 28% is just not that big a deal.
Folks forget that those what happens at $50,000 articles are really talking about $50,000 after deductions – and $50,000 after deductions is $75,000 to 100,000 gross pay. Not really a middle class problem.
Regardless of allegiances, which matter little as I have said more than once as is principles that count, you have no solutions until you lay them out, and that should prove most interesting to read.
“This again can be fixed with Government action on taxes.”
I don’t see where these tax fixes are going to come from. Moreover, most of what used to serve as public revenue flow is being privatized ( Chicago parking meters). I dare say, it isn’t even going to be a wash, once the State budgets are adjusted. The Federal Government is not the only player.
FDR was not preceded by great Presidents nor TR was. I chose two presidents from two different parties who I consider as the greatest from those parties last century. I am sure we will get someone good when things do not go well. In Democratic party I saw Dr. Dean who was as angry as we were when the Public Option was dropped and so I am sure both parties contain at-least a few who are smart and capable of batting for main street when given a chance. It is a matter of chance I guess.
Situation is not broken down. If we had VAT taxes we would not have even had the chance. Thats why the third world countries never come out of that whirlpool of VAT taxes they are in.
We just need to hope for a grid-lock to prevent VAT taxes from creeping in till like a President like FDR, LBJ, TR or Ike comes along to get the government action done.
I am not suggesting in the least bit a conversion of Republican pols, nor Democrats. I’m suggesting that once the reality of all, or most of what I listed comes to pass, the political landscape will not be recognizable. And so, I am advocating that we take that landscape into account when seeking solutions rather than the current one. That, in effect, we start thinking ahead, rather than just reacting.
Really? I don’t even think Dean would raise taxes on the rich, IMHO. Dean is a centrist Democrat. He’s certainly not a lefty. He does the populist bit–but the guy is centrist to the core. Maybe Kucinich. But he even caved on health care reform. So that’s not much.
Which makes me say again–working within a corrupt 2 party duopoly is foolhardy at this point. There are no good Dems to save us. I know folks will disagree–but all I see is scorched earth and Barry OilyBomber’s smarmy smirk.
It would be arrogance to the nth for me to offer solutions. I seek intelligent engagement and cooperation.
If your idea is to bring the inevitable to within our grasp by electing, or allowing to be elected, nutjobs, I think the problem lies elsewhere.
VAT is not a finite thing. It can be tweeked to be more progressive or less. But, at this point, imo, it’s the least of our problems.
Cooperate with what exactly?
Is that what you concluded from my 181?
I saw only him reacting angrily to drop of Public Option. If he is centrist then can we safely guess all of the Democrats as running right to the Republicans themselves. No wonder opposite side i.e. Republicans claim Democrats are running to the left, same ones who gave first time in the history inaction individual mandates to AHIP and Pharma since Republicans see right running Democrats as running to the left of them. So Republicans are right on that claim.
Tell me how VAT can be tweaked to be progressive.
Lets take an example. A Bar of soap which costs $1 will be sold $2 in the stores due to VAT taxes. A billionaire can afford it but a main street person $1 difference in the price is the difference between Earth and Heaven. I want to see progressive tweaking here so that billionaire pays $10 million for that soap and main street guy pays $1.10 for that soap. How will it be possible.
By advocating the impeachment of the President (that was you, right?), you subject the Democratic party’s politicians to another monumental shift rightward (that’s where the money is), and the election of crazy people.
Does anyone think that Joe Biden will wake up President and say to himself, “Well, it’s time to make peace with my Left flank”?
You can exempt staples from Vat. But there is far more, questions about at which point of the production process Vat is applied, etc. I’m not familiar with the details, but if you are interested, there’s google.
Obama has committed political malpractice of the highest order.
Coming in to office with the largest majorities in Congress in decades and controlling both houses, coming into office after a President that many people feel was the worst in the country’s history and coming into office with an opposition party that was absolutely demoralized and considered to have become a rump, regional party, he has managed to revitalize the Republicans, extend Bush’s legacy, to divide and demoralize his own base and to pass lukewarm, watered down crap bills that he his trying to sell as historical accomplishments.
Coming in to office in the midst of a major financial meltdown he had the opportunity to appoint knowledgeable people who would help avert the worst of the damage and more importantly put the safeguards in place to prevent another occurrence. Instead he put Geithner and Summers, who had a big hand in creating the crisis, into key – controlling positions – where they proceeded to actively protect the interests of Wall Street at the expense of the United States.
He appointed Rahm Emmanuel his Chief of Staff – a fierce champion of corporate interests and a strong advocate of weak ideas (such as piece-mealing health care reform through a number of small bills rather than passing comprehensive legislation). Rahm, who took frequent opportunities to savage the Democratic base and destroy the ground organization that Governor Dean had built up and which was a big part of Obama’s getting elected in the first place.
He purposely snubbed Governor Dean, failing to recognize Dean’s past contributions and ignoring Dean’s potential for getting a decent, comprehensive health care bill through Congress.
Instead we get Tim Kaine as head of the DNC and Kathleen Sebelius as Secretary of HHS. I really don’t know of any significant contributions either of these individuals has made.
Obama has grossly neglected his responsibilities in nominating and shepherding judges and executive office personnel through the Senate. Leaving important positions either unfilled or being occupied by Bush holdovers. And why, oh why, do we still have Bush’s tainted USA Leura Canary still holding office in Atlanta. And how about the Office of Legal Counsel and the 18 month (was it?) kabuki leaving Dawn Johnson out to dry?
Obama’s appointment of Elena Kagen to replace Justice John Paul Stevens on the Supreme Court an abominable choice from a court balance perspective but also complete idiocy since she’s had to recuse herself from a large number of cases (something like 26) due to her involvement in them as Solicitor General. A great benefit for the insane wing of the court.
Then we have the wonderful performance of the Department of Justice under Obama’s good friend Eric Holder. Abusing the State Secrets privilege even beyond what Bush had done. No significant investigations or indictments of the companies and individuals involved creating the housing bubble and crashing the market. White washing of Yoo’s and Bybee’s creation of the “legal” basis for the United States to break its Geneva Convention obligations and to torture and murder detainees.
As most regulars here know, the list just goes on and on.
Obama doesn’t seem to recall what he campaigned on, why he was elected and just who he’s supposed to serve. After almost two years in office there are still reports in the news of how he wants to have a bipartisan relationship with the Republicans all the while they are sharpening their knives in anticipation of gaining control of the House.
Every day that Obama remains in office he weakens the Democratic Party and the country. I dread thinking about him running again in 2012. If he wins then we have another 4 years of him. A repeat of the Bush years in many ways. If he loses then we have the prospect of a truly insane Republican becoming president.
Political egos being what they are, I doubt that he would even think about not running for a second term. And due to his abysmal performance in office to date, he would likely be heavily contested in the Democratic Primary.
So the benefits of Obama being impeached would be that we could have time to rebuild the Democratic Party before the 2012 elections and also mitigate the damage to the country and the government that has resulted from Obama’s presidency.
How could this work? Nancy Pelosi and a number of key congressional leaders would go to the President and ask him to resign for the sake of the country. They would inform him that if he did not resign then they would actively work with the Republicans in the next congress to impeach him. Given that Obama pushed the House to lead on a number of politically sensitive issues and then left them hanging there might just be some real support for this.
It’s unlikely that Joe Biden would be seen as a viable replacement for Obama much less a credible candidate in 2012. So prior to Obama announcing his resignation they should have the much talked about switch between Hillary and Biden’s positions with Hillary taking the VP and Biden taking State preferably prior to or during the lame duck session. Taking this fantasy (as a cynic I doubt any of this would ever come to pass) a bit further, Hillary could nominate Nancy Pelosi as her VP and so when 2012 comes around Hillary could decide whether she really wants to run another campaign and if not then she could support Pelosi as the Democratic candidate for president.
Your thoughts? Constructive criticism? Alternative ideas?
Look newton, to me it was a throw away line. But, say that Obama and his cat food commission, greatly influenced by the Washington Consensus thinking behind the IMF, decide to do some really drastic shit?
What’s to slow them down? Tell me one thing that will slow them down?
It is the staples which will be targeted for VAT taxes and corruption will breed like never before.
It is the progressive taxes which are the appropriate taxes right at the end point i.e. every individual earning for that year. Make it simple, whole income with no exemptions but 30+ graded rates to appropriately tax everybody based on their capacity. No other form of taxation is better, simple and most importantly effective than that.
Point taken. Obama has been an abysmal President. You will get no argument from me.
So let the Republican party handle Social Security. You know what they have in mind. It may not be part of your vision, but it is the inevitable result.
“So the benefits of Obama being impeached would be that we could have time to rebuild the Democratic Party before the 2012 elections and also mitigate the damage to the country and the government that has resulted from Obama’s presidency.”
Pegged it to a point. The Democratic Party cannot and will not be reformed in less than a generation.
Hate to point it out to you, chief, but our economy is DEAD.
Time to get back to a revived economy like we had in the 50′s when top tax rates were 90%.
“So let the Republican party handle Social Security. You know what they have in mind. It may not be part of your vision, but it is the inevitable result.”
not if they are busily impeaching Obama. That act alone would turn the Dem’s into an opo Party. There would be gridlock, and the rest would be up to the people to mobilize, show a united front against corruption and hopefully scare the bejesus out of the lawmakers, and make them once again act on behalf of their constituents.
There you go, – a voice of sanity!
Yes, actually that’s not bad – blame the Repubs for screwing the middle class and then start a push for middle class help that the Repubs would have to screw again.
Helps if the Dems scream bloody murder the whole time too.
I haven’t read all the comments and I don’t want to try to make Fuckno’s case, but I can suggest where impeaching Obama might play off in a positive manner. (Notice I said might. Also, remember, impeachment is an indictment; only a conviction removes him from office.)
a) Obama is the titular leader of the Dem party. Witnessing the surly mood of progressives and the fate that befell the party when it fell into lockstep support of Clinton, some Dems might be motivated to challenge him in a primary or otherwise substantially distance themselves from his evil corporatist policies. Who knows, they might even introduce and push forward legislation for unpopular things, like the Public Option, cramdown, etc.
b) Realizing that the cocksucking GOPers, even if they secretly share his affinity for the elite, are his personal enemies might persuade President Pinocchio to turn on them with a vengeance. This could mean such things as:
- Unleashing the DOJ full throttle on crimes involving the Bush administration and the links those abuses have to GOPers still in Congress.
- Dialing up all kinds of actions and policies over which the Executive Branch has complete and pretty much unbridled control. Can you say, “Withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan?” DADT repeal by executive order? Replacement (using recess appointments if necessary) of Cabinet officers like Timmy, Salazar, etc?
I’d also like to address the concern Kelly has put forward that Fuckno has no plan:
Okay, other than preparing to ratfuck us via the Catfood Commission, do we know that either Oilbummer or the Dems in Congress have any actual plan going forward? I mean, in the absence of their plan, does the absence of our plan make a big difference? I’ll take well-meaning new people making it up on the fly over evil (and demonstrably incompetent) people doing nothing, or only offering more of the same evil they’ve delivered in the past.
Finally we will see Democrats acting like Democrats and calling it a DOA for the Social security tweaks. Republicans will not do anything. If they attempt it will become albatross around their necks like the HCR bill with individual mandates is on Democrats necks right now.
BTW it is peoples savings over a lifetime of hard work and fully payable solvent till 2036. Both of these two parties have no case or point in meddling with people savings and they are just its custodians.
Finally, the plan emerges.
Tie up the Republicans with a string of sacrificial goats, while Democrats steal back the populist mantle, and by the time the dust settles, one or both of the parties will have learned their lesson(s).
Do I have this right?
And do you honestly expect Oilbummer and the Dems in Congress to do a single one of those things? If so, please explain how you support that conclusion (based on the fact that they’ve ignored all of them so far).
-Taxing the rich at pre-Bush levels
Lets hope for Grid-lock on this resulting in tax resets to those levels.
-Increasing regulations on financial transactions by merely restoring Glass-Steagall
This is probably the most important reform to the financial sector. I remember it was favorite project of Sen. McCain & Sen Cantwell. If he gets a chance he might pursue it again. So it might be Republicans who might bring back Glass-Stegall of all the people.
That’s really neither a plan nor a strategy, at best a tactic, one moreover over which we have absolutely no control.
If the Reps go for it, it buys us time, unless we fritter it away – which is likely.
Soon enough, we all might be able to list our vision on worthless 10 dollar notes and burry the Congress with them.
This is the fatal flaw in a discussion like this.
The only thing worse that Democrats, is Republicans.
But by a very large measure.
I continue to argue that Corrupt beats Corrupt and literally Crazy ten times out of ten. We disagree.
If you imagine that he wakes up in that situation at a time when the country is in deep, deep, deep turmoil and the public is on the verge of erupting, he just might think exactly that. More than one rightwing fascist government has tried to save itself at the last minute from public wrath by offering progressive reforms. Usually the attempt comes too late, but in this country, given our history, it might work. In a way, it’s not that different from what FDR pulled off when he saved the capitalists from themselves.
Our currency is still the worlds most desired currency and we are still even at this point the worlds biggest economy. That is how our government is able to run those record deficits by selling bonds to all the countries in the world which eagerly purchase them and they are the worlds safest investment even at this point.
While I respect the opinion (and I hold it close in places where I allow myself to dream freely), I have a question:
Where is the money?
It isn’t on the Left, and we are a very long way from there.
I haven’t seen your name here before but damn! that is one impressive post. Looking forward to seeing more from you, that’s for sure!
I am not sure that I agree. The Republicans are a known entity. Todays Democrats are totally corrupt and they can and likely will do that which the Reps. could never accomplish.
We do not fully appreciate the decrepitude of the Third Way Democrats. We don’t know this enemy as well as we do the Reps.
Side Note: If someone were to make that possible, someone within government today, it would be Joe Biden.
It is “desired” merely for it’s reserve status. But the emerging nations are totally sick of funding our Wars, and suffering Shalom Bernanke’s printing press. They are decoupling at a break neck speed.
Really? Unless that statement isn’t missing a snark tag I think you’re probably delusional about GOPers doing anything to regulate the financial MOTU’s.
This is true of any party.
The kicker is that they must fear (in an electoral sense) the electorate more than they fear not being able to fund their campaigns.
How we get there from here, I do not know.
There are plenty of sources to ‘prove’ you wrong.
“German Economic Minister Rainer Bruederle said that the Fed’s “push toward easier monetary policy is the “wrong way” to stimulate growth and may amount to a manipulation of the dollar. Excessive, permanent money creation in my opinion is an indirect manipulation of an exchange rate.” The fact that China was smart enough to peg its currency to the most rapidly devaluing currency in the world is a different story altogether, and merely confirms that they are leap and bounds more sophisticated in their monetary policy than anyone gives them credit for. If Geithner wants to prevent a relative depreciation of the Yuan versus all other currencies in the world (especially the EUR, against which it continues to be in freefall), the answer is simple: stop bloody printing!”
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/germany-calls-out-geithners-hypocrisy-says-money-printing-fx-intervention
also Soros on SDR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnMi4TtI3JM
With respect to Soc Sec and some other issues:
If we are lucky enough to dodge the bullets coming in the lame-duck session, we could get a situation where the Dems oppose Obama/GOP proposals simply for political advantage. I can see Senators up for re-election, and everybody on the Dem side of the aisle in the House, fleeing from legislation that is publicly distasteful. I think the reaction on the progressive side to the POS HCR bill demonstrates that risk quite clearly.
Absolutely! And this fact — the difference between votes and money — is being driven home to them this election cycle. Big time.
Why? I mean it. Why?
By making that case to ex-Perrotistas?
It’s time to brush up on Machiavelli, if we want to understand the thinking of our enemies.
Aren’t they just another stain (what’s left of them anyway) of Republicans?
I mean to say, Tea Baggers?
As I remember, they were describing the sucking sound of jobs going south if NAFTA were to pass.
I don’t care or give one whit about labels.
The Tajiks and Pashtuns ( not exactly friendly to each other) got their shit together to beat back the British. History is full of necessary allegiances of convenience, when facing a greater enemy than either.
I had a discussion with a Conservative here back around the time Scott Brown was running.
The point being this:
The Tea Party is not now anything like it was back then (it has morphed several times since), but there is still a chance to capture the frightened and politically disinclined. They have good reason to be frightened, but they should not be the property of Dick Armey.
I read someone’s account of a Tea Party gathering. The ugly was about 10%, the rest of the signage was rather populist in their demands. What we get through the MSM is what MOTU want’s us to see.
I do believe that when peoples livelihood, and dreams are fucked with in extremum, they will see the light.
It is that belief of mine, which still keeps me here, although all the passports are up to date in my household.
Thank’s for a cordial discussion, newtonusr.
nighters.
nite fuckno
Robert Reich talking tax policy in three videos from the Strand book store – very good stuff – very common sense:
http://thesituationist.wordpress.com/2010/10/08/robert-reich-on-the-unequal-situation-of-the-great-recession/
And duh, we need to raise taxes back up to the levels we had during the 50′s.
Why? Because it works – the economy grows and everybody gains.
It is my understanding that High Crimes and Misdemeanors is a bit vague. . . .
http://www.constitution.org/cmt/high_crimes.htm
But I think that the real point is that (as far as I know) there is nobody who the Congress has to report to in order to make sure that the offense they have in mind is valid.
If Congress wants to impeach the President for some totally insane reason, I don’t think that there is anybody who can tell them that they can’t do it. As long as enough members are willing to vote ‘yes’ on whatever the charge is, that is all it takes. The voters may judge them harshly, and history is almost sure to judge them harshly, but beyond that there is nothing to stop them. (note: this view is based on my personal understanding, and I may be wrong—but I just don’t think that they need any external approval for the impeachment process)
As for why it would be a good thing. . . . I would like to hope that, if we could get rid of Obama, then maybe that would clear the way somebody better to run in 2012. And it might convince the Democrats that, if they get the chance to go after people like Bush/Cheney for war-crimes, they should ALWAYS take it.
But I doubt that they would have the votes to carry the process through the Senate.
Margaret, in the interest of a full discussion on this (recognizing that I am late to the fray) I would put to you that the president of the United States should never be a symptom but should be a cause. He represents us to the world, and look at what kind of representative we have.
During the Bush years I was a strong advocate for impeachment, because that brings to the fore arguments pro and contra on the integrity of the man in office, his abilities and his deficits – and there is no way that I can refrain from insisting that Obama is due the same treatment. He ought to be impeached. It would be good for this country and good for our standing with our young people and with the world. Standards have not been met, the oath of office has not been complied with.
It is not sufficient to give always the excuse of what is practical, what can happen – we need to concentrate on what should happen, if we are to have any kind of a country at all. That means, you vote for the best, not the least worst. That means you impeach all of those who have failed to live up to their oath of office. The bar is high; it must be high.
So, I advocate impeachment of Obama, however that may most rapidly happen. Two crimes come to the fore – the use of drones, which I believe is against every element of the Constitution he swore to uphold, since it kills haphazardly and without recourse to the courts. Second, his order that allows him to kill with impunity any American citizen. That too is outside the Constitution and is a criminal decision. He can be impeached for each of these crimes alone.
This has nothing to do with what will or can happen. This has to do with what must happen, if we are to remain the United States of America, a country the world looks up to for these very values, a country the world would take as a role model.
How the hell are we going to have peace any other way? Excuse me for swearing on a Sunday, but I am a bit disappointed that you seem to feel Bush and Cheney, not having been brought to justice are therefore not criminals. They are, and they will always be. Nancy Pelosi took impeachment off the table and she was wrong to do it. It didn’t happen, but I am very hopeful that history will show that it should have. The same is true for Obama.
Our economy would function better with higher taxes, especially on our new landlords(the financial sector) at top end. Force thier greed to at least take a long term view of things.
People that say that higher taxes will hurt the economy are refering to the fact that higher taxes will extract dollars from an already weak economy. Well… the solution to that is clear, just put those dollars back into the economy by cranking up the federal spending directed toward productive job creation. We can rebuild our infrastructure.
Yes and we’re in a crisis which his policies are making worse so… even from a more pragmatic point of view, someone else needs to be given a chance. While the presidents powers do have limits, I think the folks at FDL have outlines a good number of things which a president could do to help avert further catastrophe.
How about we end the expensive wars, occupations, and the outrageous $164+ billion we give to Israel so they can ethnically cleanse more Palestinians?
I was hopeful about Democrats getting us Single Payer but was proved wrong when it came to real action time.
Similarly in the recent financial bill I read Sen. McCain stating that he was told that Glass-Steagall reinstatement will not get a floor vote. Sen Cantwell is Democrat who was working with Sen. McCain on this Glass-Steagall reinstatment. Anyway if they are in majority whether they will pursue it or not is a different question just like our Public Option. I was merely stating that I was hopeful in my post.
You are right about our currency being devalued for the whole of the last decade but as a practical matter can you list any currency in the world which is safer than ours as a long term investment vehicle. There is none to my knowledge.
History has proven again and again progressive taxation works and results in a better society with everybody able to have a share of the pie with a basic livable first-world life style. Just two decades back when Pres. Clinton reversed the diminishing progressive taxation by a small margin his approach was vindicated in couple of years.
Higher taxes will not hurt our economy for sure since those dollars are used to prop up business in totalitarian countries. Higher taxes will lead to our congress able to invest in their districts with earmarks since they know their districts best and also to invest in our short-term and long term infrastructure.