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Steven Hill is reporting from France for the Washington Monthly, and he relays a simple fact that almost all other reporting on the proposed increase in the retirement age has missed:
The media has been reporting that the French are protesting the increase of their retirement age from 60 to 62, but this is only part of the proposed legislation. It also raises the age for retirement with FULL benefits from 65 to 67. Most of the French retiring early do so with only partial benefits. This is an important distinction, yet most media outlets have stubbornly refused to report it. It seems that they have decided that the French are whiners and complainers — come on, is 62 years old for retirement really such a bad deal? — and want their news audiences to think that too. But that’s not the entire story, many French effectively are having their retirement age increased to 67, not 62 as widely reported. It’s amazing to me that the media can’t get this simple distinction right. Perhaps they don’t want to.
I’d lose the “perhaps.” The whole thing is taking place against the backdrop of potential increases in the retirement age here in America. Elites who have been banging the drum for retirement age increases surely are pleased at painting the French as a bunch of freeloaders. But in fact, the French are resisting what amounts to a similar change to what the US could face in December.
Now, their protests have apparently come up unsuccessful. The French Senate just passed the increases, and surely the US press will paint the legislation as responsible and serious. Just as they will if it comes stateside. And at some point, you have to echo the question that a French passerby did of Steven Hill:
He translated into French for the others, and they all shook their heads. That’s when the one with the accented English blurted out, “Where are you Americans? Why aren’t Americans out in the streets? If Americans are angry, why aren’t they out in the streets like we are?” He said something quickly to his comrades in French, then reverted back to English. “It’s like Americans have gone to sleep or something. You used to have many protests.”
I’d say a pliant media has a bit to do with that as well.
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oldnslow was banging on that “simple fact” just yesterday morning. believe me, “pliant” wasn’t uttered :D
thank you David
WSJ said today that the Catfood commission won’t have any immediate recommendation on social security. Instead they will suggest scaling back some tax deductions. Republicans won’t like that, so it looks increasingly like the catfood commission will go nowhere. They aren’t even anticipating a vote during this congress.
This quote comes from Bloomsberg Businessweek:
It seems the phrase “France’s old demons” refers to the dangerous elements taking to the streets to defend their interests against the will of the powerful. In any case, if France now depends on Sarkozy and his predatory reforms as a rampart with which it will defend its good name….
On “Press the Meat” yesterday BoBo was all “we aren’t as brave as the British with their austerity plan.”
See? British/American good, French bad. It’s worked forever, except the tri-corner hat crowd forgets Rousseau and the fact that the French helped us overthrow our British “tyranny.”
The historical mind boggles.
David, thanks for the post. I said the other day the French should send us a postcard because the MSM only allows us to see what they want us to.
I knew it had to be more and I understand. The French already have healthcare and so their social retirement accounts are a great deal different than ours.
Ya Think!! They are all bought and paid for by MOTU! Assfuckingwipes!!
I only found this fact by reading about Sarkozy’s reforms; it was buried deep in a Vanity Fair article about the Bettancourt scandal. Having followed this more than the average American, that is to say hardly at all, I was amazed to read that full benefits don’t kick in until 65, and they are going for 67.
All reports I’ve seen show it as 60/62. With reference to the long French summer vacations, of course.
Do you mean immediate recommendations or immediate cuts?
I swear, you can’t believe a word you hear on TEEVEE anymore…there aren’t any good movies or shows…I think I’ll just throw the things away; they cost me a bundle anyway.
Save up the dough for when we lose net neutrality and I have to pay Comcast to get in a faster lane for my website.
We used to call the French “frogs” but we’re the frogs in the pot that’s boiling now. And the righties are all for the useless losers who don’t go to church losing everything. then again, it will be all the “fault of the liberals”
One of the French commenters on Cohen’s piece on the protests in the NYT said that Sarkozy provoked this reaction by betraying those whom he had promised that he would not raise the age for early and full retirements/pensions. That was a missing piece of the puzzle and explained the perseverance of the protests.
I think the plan is “why cut when you can wait for a republican congress that Obama will bootlick to just privatize the whole goddamned thing?”
Plus, you know what? They have their own Versailles-on-the-Potomac, except for its actually Versailles!
Seriously, they have the same media problem we do. You have to read Le Monde to get to the 65/67 benefits thing. The rest of their print media is just as complicit as WaPo.
And their lower and higher legislative bodies approved these cuts which means the French people are having to deal with corrupt politicians who sold them out to the rich people, too. We are all in the same boat!
I was trying to ask bmull what he/she had read in the WSJ. The article FDL reviewed earlier suggested deferred SS cuts, raised age for retirement, but targeted at the younger age groups. Completely unacceptable to me but definitely a threat to the future of SS.
See Jane’s take on this in the comments:
http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/10/25/new-emphasis-for-cat-food-commission/
Um…
Because you just showed us that they don’t work?
Re: why americans won’t hit the pavement anymore, or at least, not in numbers that will put the fear of change into the status-quo’rs…collectively, we now need a bonafide collapse/catastrophe that goes up OUR subjective butts to get us in gear for a real protest.
Which is why having Barack Obama in for a second term is a prescripton for an even bigger disaster than the one we’re looking at on Nov. 2nd. This guy is the effing patron saint of “Don’t rock the boat!!!”
Fortunately, the chances of his getting another four years are rapidly moving into the realm of slim-and-none.
Representative democracy has failed in the most utterly predictable way. The representatives, aren’t.
Are you as shocked as I am? /rollseyes
Don’t think that they’ll give up. They won’t.
The Greeks haven’t either, but you just don’t hear about it in the news.
That’s just the students last week. They continually shut down Syntagma Square. The Greek Austerity government will fall.
At the risk of being called something unpleasant, I feel obliged to say that the only place I have heard this “detail” is, um…NPR. But that wasn’t until either yesterday or today. STill, they did report it, and it was the first time I had heard it.
My thought was pretty much, well, no wonder!
But Nathan has a point – throughout the health care bill and pretty much everything else of the past couple years, our goverment, both sides, has shown that they really don’t care what the voters want. If it’s contrary to what the Serious People and the Finance People (read Donors) want, it’s the latter who win. At this point, that seems an immutable rule.
The other day CNN had this pseudo French woman wannabe going on and on that these protests are just small isolated incidents and that the media was portraying it much worse than it is yadayadayada…then the host said something like lets listen to our correspondent in Paris or Lyon, I don’t remember which. The reporter was out of breath and started talking about the protest and then suddenly they were all running away from the smoke and tear gas aimed at the crowd…the camera was swinging all over the place as they ran…
Truly.
That’s kind of funny.
When it comes to the class war americans are bacon triple hamburger with cheese eating surrender monkies.
It was!
I don’t understand how people can stay in a perpetual state of Anger Towards Everything.
But, maybe I’m naive, or refuse to go there. Everything else is too hard, as it is.
What will work if not protests, strikes, self-organization by the unorganized…?
Even if nothing will move the elite to adopt humane and fair policies that fact alone does not entail that protest is unworthy because it is unnecessary.
None of the EU countries have yet been subjected in practice to the austerity measures, other than the Greeks (2months?) Give any one of them 6-12 months, take into account commodities inflation, and additional bailouts of the Global Banking cartels, and the lid will blow.
Heh. That’s what the CNN incompetents get for running live footage during a lie session!
“Work Harder to Earn Less”
French Fury in the EU Cage
By DIANA JOHNSTONE
“The retirement issue is far more complex than “the age of retirement”. The legal age of retirement means the age at which one may retire. But the pension depends on the number of years worked, or to be more precise, on the number of cotisations (payments) into the joint pension scheme. On the grounds of “saving the system from bankruptcy”, the government is gradually raising the number of years of cotisations from 40 to 43 years, with indications that this will be stretched out further in the future.
As educationis prolonged, and employment begins later, to get a full pension most people will have to work until 65 or 67. A “full pension” comes to about 40 per cent of wages at the time of retirement.
But even so, that may not be possible. Full time jobs are harder and harder to get, and employers do not necessarily want to retain older employees. Or the enterprise goes out of business and the 58-year old employee finds himself permanently out of work. It is becoming harder and harder to work full-time in a salaried job for over 40 years, however much one may want to. Thus in practice, the Sarkozy-Woerth reform simply means reducing pensions. ”
http://www.counterpunch.com/johnstone10212010.html
I think Rall’s call for Revolution will be felt over in Europe looong before we see any major civil disturbances in America. It’s a lot easier to fix blame in a centralized, more homogeneous European country like France than it is here.
Multinational solidarity would help the French and Greek causes some.
I’m curious to know what percentage of people who pay into pension plans and SS are still alive at 65 to collect it.
I’m not saying that it doesn’t have some symbolic value. I’m just saying that it won’t matter, because it won’t work.
I suppose they could work to fundamentally delegitimize their government, and replace it with a new one, and I half expect that they will. We, however, will not. We’re conditioned to worship celebrity. Our heros are buffoons.
Huh ?
Well you know that thing about walking a mile in someone’s shoes…..well,well.
I oddly believe that Bernanke’s debasement of the dollar, on top of rising unemployment and austerity cuts, set against commodities inflation will get the American population sufficiently riled by mid summer.
Well. I said I don’t understand. Wanna wear my heels for a minute? Well, well your self.
I think you may be grossly underestimating the degree of pain associated with the dismantling of the American Empire.
Come on demi show a little compassion.
Sure,I would wear your heels ,what size you wear ?
Some 65% of French pensions are paid by and through the government – they were never a cost burden on industry. That was their societal choice, and now Sarko wants to revise that part of the French social contract. And that’s for everyone, which is why the refinery strikers are enjoying so much support. Sarko also wants to avoid increasing taxes on the rich, which, as here, would close the “gap” quite nicely. That reluctance, perhaps, is because Sarko and a lotta other French politicicians took a shit ton of illegal campaign monies from (at least) gross old billionaire Lil Bettencourt and her handlers, including his finace miniter, Eric Woerth. All that is subject to current criminal investigation and they’ve just pulled a judge who was sitting on part of it for an apparent conflict of interest.
The Socialist Party is largely Blue Dog on pensions and tax the rich, but Segolene Royal – who was sold out by the Socialists in losing the runoff to Sarko in 2007, has said on the teebee (because the other leading Socialist contenders were hiding respectively in DeeCee at the IMF and in Qatar at the time), that if the pension “reform” passed, she would see to its repeal in 2012. The French are right on this and they’re pushing like it’s May 1968. Never thought I’d like them so much and I wish them all the best.
I believe Naomi Klein’s analysis holds for what is going on in America and why America is cowed. And I believe this is corporate and class warfare on a scale heretofore unknown.
Ya’ know, that’s an interesting question. One thinks about the longevity of one’s own family members. I will listen for the answer to your question as I make my rounds. Today I read some ‘expert’ on CNN (Wonderland) writing how age 73 is now what 65 was in 1940. Other writers (Dean Baker) note that folks like myself probably gained a year and a half’s longevity over the totality of my lifespan compared to previous generations. It is all fun with math and depends on socio-economics and good fortune. I had to laugh when I read that expert touting 73 as the new 65! I will try to get more information about that.
I hope you are right.Something has to change.
I said I don’t understand. That doesn’t mean I don’t yearn to be compassionate. But, I’m trying. Does it make you feel better that I work to be compassionate? Does it make you feel better to give me a hard time?
:(
They mean business this time and I admire them. Thanks for adding the missing pieces about Royale versus the faux socialists.
PS Le Monde was established by De Gaulle after WWII as a counterweight to the existing French collaborationist dailies like Le Figaro, which is still reich. Le Monde is private, but governed by a board of reporters – it’s the NYT of France, but better, because of that board governance. Reich owners ran it into debt due to greed; it was auctioned in August to three rich socialists. They’re happy with a modest return and I’m sure the reporters are happier. I use the Google translate function on ‘em every day. You can learn a lot just by comparing other sources to the Le Monde coverage:
http://www.lemonde.fr/
Please,I am not trying to give you a hard time.
I apologize if it came off that way.
Thanks for your company this dark, rainy Dickensonian night. Good night all.
Accepted. Still. Going to comtemplate being more compassionate. Bye, FDL.
You might like this link. It makes me feel better. Scroll way down for other links:
http://flowerhillfarm.blogspot.com/
You are beautiful…kudos for trying.
Much love to ya!
My goodness me,that’s fantastic.
I think this one is equally or more important than raising the retirement age. People may be out of work for extended periods.
the Greek problem and the Irish one comes in large part from their austerity programs as noted by Romer in the NYT yesterday. They were in some danger of defaulting on their debt and so the EU forced austerity on them. Hell of a price to pay to be in the EU. That is the thing that has everyone here running scard – - the national debt. As Romer noted, it has to be dealt with but not in the middle of this recession.
It is true that people live longer these days but if you have arthritis brought on by really hard work all your life, waiting longer to retire won’t cut it.
And you’d like who as the Republican replacement? Sarah Palin? Give me a break. Obama is the best we can get. That’s not saying much. Wait! I got it wrong. It is saying a lot. That he is the best we can get says a a lot about the United States. Do you think the only other viable candidate Mrs Clinton would be doing any different? I don’t think so. And if you think absolute catastrophe is really a good thing, then you would have loved to be in Germany in 1932. Get a grip.
Class warfare in the U.S. means the only causalities are of the working and middle class. The elites have yet to suffer any casualties.
One reason why the protests have been so virulent is that the unions know that the socialists will sustain the change when they come in on the next round (as they surely will). Among the conventional thinking elite — and I know a lot of them — the conventional wisdom is that France should be more like the United States. This is not the opinion of the majority of the French public, but it is what the bankers and those who believe them think.
France still has viable labor unions. In the U.S. labor leaders have sold out the rank and file so they can say they are part of the establishment and are very serious people. In addition, French high school students are better educated and more well informed and traveled than many if not most U.S. university students.
One of the most effective protests is the ‘escargot’ [snail] tactic. Trucks just go slow, run out of gas, have breakdowns on critical bottlenecks that jam the traffic for hours. I got caught in one last spring in Marseilles (didn’t listen to the radio). The tunnel under the port was blocked, the downtown was completely jammed up. It took three hours to go two miles. Needless to say, we missed our plane.
Ooooh – bookmarked! Lovely. I wanna go there right now.
There is a huge segment that has already become, in reality, a permanent underclass. If you’re over 49 the chances of being employed by any place other than Wal-Mart are slim. Not a pleasant thing to contemplate for a lot of folks, including some here. Business continues to shed jobs by the thousands each week. All while the Wall Street elite talk about the billion and multi-million bonuses they’ll receive at the end of the year. Some Xmas bonus. I’m lucky not to have to pay for my own booze at the company Xmas party. There have been, shall we say, agitated summers in most of our lifetimes. I could handle a couple more like those confronting Nixon.
Take a look folks:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-25/u-s-treasury-shielding-of-citigroup-with-deletions-make-foia-meaningless.html
In other words, you believe the symbolic value of massive popular protest to be such that, in the end, the fact that this protest happened won’t have much significance at all. Yet, it’s odd that you then claim that popular French forces might undermine the current government, thus bringing a new government into being.
I can’t make sense of the point you want me and others to draw from the French situation.
Thanks for that tip. Didn’t know about Google Translate. I used to live in Quebec, but my French is beyond rusty.
The New York Times is not so sure the unions will cave, at least they’re hedging their bets. I bet people at high levels are nervous. It’s not a ‘slam dunk’. Too many French ‘years’: 1789, 1793, 1830, 1848, 1871, upheaval in the 1930s, 1968. They’re ripe.
Memo From Paris
French Unions Are at a Critical Point
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/26/world/europe/26unions.html?ref=world
“But the proposal will soon become law, setting the stage for confrontations with France’s unions, which continue to starve the country of gasoline, diesel and other petroleum products, and are pressing for demonstrations afterward.
“It will be a treacherous moment for most of the players in French politics, not least of all the unions themselves. The outcome is likely to set the tone for the many similar conflicts that are sure to arise in future years as the government seeks to deal with a budget deficit by scaling back generous social welfare provisions the state can no longer afford.”
— Of course, “no longer afford” is a relative term…
So far as I can tell, and I am a dilettante in economic matters, Bernanke seems to be trying to weaken the dollar. If he succeeds in this, he will have enabled the United States to rebuild its productive capacity by creating export markets for its goods. The Strong Dollar was not a ally of the American worker and the primary sphere of the economy in which she worked. Bernanke’s monetary policies have also seemingly targeted deflationary tendencies in the economy. It is unfortunate that neither measure will prove sufficiently able to increase employment much in the short-term. Nor will they induce the owners of capital to spend on new productive capacity if these owners believe they can make more money in the casino economy on Wall Street. What is needed is a much larger stimulus and structural reforms to the government and the economy, reforms that would bring to an end America’s neoliberal age.
I’m not holding my breath waiting for that kind of reform, especially when it would take more than an election to bring it about.
An imposed austerity is one good reason for a multinational response to the EU’s economic imperatives. The various peoples of the EU are faced with modifying the policies of a barely representative European government. A common and high standard of living is or ought to be a vital interest of the working men and women in the EU countries. They should not fall prey to the EU’s divide and conquer tactics.
Since I’m an American, it’s hypocritical of me to hand out that advice; we Americans have wasted centuries in a vain attempt to achieve that goal. Nevertheless, solidarity provides some of the resources needed to check irresponsible power.
The French are likely to actively depose their government. They’re on what, their 5th Constitution? The protests may turn into a mob, and that may get something done, but the protests themselves won’t sway the existing elite into doing anything differently.
FAIR covered the same thing almost a week ago: http://www.fair.org/blog/2010/10/20/newshour-fails-french-public-too/
More than 70% of French are supporting this agitation even when their streets are reeking with Garbage smell. Then this over-whelming support of public in the presence of over-whelming stench is called by our media as irresponsible and trivial then. I never made sense of our media till HCR bill and then I understood why they lost their ability of calling a spade, a spade. No wonder main stream is running away from our traditional media.
GWB did get everyone of his wish fulfilled trampling what-not till he tried social security tweaks. Thats when he started getting road-blocks. We will see the same agitation here if Social Security tweaks are attempted too and the Democratic party if it participates in the common public savings gutting exercise they will soon be relegated to third party.
BTW French quality of life never suffered with 36 hour work-week with more than 1 month paid vacation. They have the only rival to Boeing and they have competative companies to our ones. I am sure everybody agrees with me they have better food and more wholesome life. Looks like French did not lose life to get wages for a living and they got the both sides of the trade-off in making a living.
So, you seem to be saying the French elite will draft and impose another constitution on France sometime in the near future and that continuous strike and protest actions would play no role in this happening. That’s far-fetched, and it would entail believing the French elite will draft and impose a new constitution in any case. I know of no one who claims the French elite are planning to write a new constitution for France.