You read the pre-post-mortems on the midterm elections today and you see a clear set of frustrations bubble to the surface. Young voters are mad that their concerns and perspective has not been addressed in the first two years of the Obama presidency. Voters in the Midwest look around their bleak economic landscape and cast about to blame the party in power. Even attendees at the Rally to Restore Sanity And/Or Fear, largely Democratic, shook their head at their political leaders “running for cover,” and feeling that “We don’t have any place to turn.”
There’s truth in all of this, especially as it speaks to real-world frustrations that Americans feel every day. But the pre-post-mortem of this election season has to include something that Democrats should have known the day after the 2008 election – that coalition they built to give the Presidency to Barack Obama does not typically turn out in a midterm. This fundamental problem – a coalition that is necessarily smaller in a non-Presidential year – speaks to almost the entire problem Democrats will have at the polls tomorrow.
According to an analysis by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, there likely will be more non-voters this year than voters. Indeed, turnout in midterm elections typically is less than 40% of the voting-age population.
The survey shows that those who choose not to exercise their franchise likely will be younger, less educated and more financially stressed than those who call themselves likely voters.
And, not surprisingly, those who choose not to vote could be considered more liberal than those who do, reinforcing the conventional political wisdom that the American electorate is right of center, and successful politicians are those who move to where the voters are.
Non-voters are far less likely to call themselves conservative. They are far more likely to support an activist government. They oppose same-sex marriage in smaller numbers.
Part of this is that Republicans have flipped so much of their electorate from non-voters to voters just through the intensity of their pitch this year. But a lot of this is structural. I wrote about the “Rising American Electorate” and drop-off voters in my first month at FDL News. The RAE includes unmarried women, young voters and nonwhites. In that post, Page Gardner of Women’s Voices Women Vote told me that “drop-off voters among RAE populations could mean a loss of 140,000 votes in Nevada, 200,000 votes in Missouri, 900,000 votes in Florida and 2 million votes in California.”
That’s basically the election right there. It was going to take a lot to get these voters to turn out in a midterm, and one thing they certainly needed as an incentive is the impression that their vote in 2008 meant they achieved some tangible success in their lives. That mostly didn’t happen, and tomorrow we’ll see the results.





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Real political change is not going to happen expecting a President to wave a magic wand to correct the ills of the country. Real Change can only happen with a steady continuous progressive movement. The mid-term non-voters were expecting jobs to be handed out by the President. Well hello why would Corporations want to create and hand out jobs in this country when they can pay a Chinese Worker 65 cents an hour? Well tomorrow we will see the results and they are the Rich will be getting Richer and the Poor will be getting Poorer!
People did not expect the President to wave a magic wand, but they did expect him to head in the right direction; passing a Republican health care plan, financial reform that entrenches TBTF, expanding the wars and Bush’s human right violations. People are not made that change did not come fast enough, they are mad that nothing changed.
The Wikileaks revelations about the atrocities committed in Bush’s never-ending illegal terror wars have been overshadowed by non stop coverage of the coming mid-term elections. But, as Amy Goodman so astutely noted in her recent blog (below) war is an election issue. Especially these wars.
These wars have killed or maimed tens – perhaps hundreds – of thousands of innocents on both sides for almost a decade now. They have bankrupted our nation; cost billions of mysteriously missing, uncounted taxpayer dollars; ruined our global reputation with our former allies; destroyed our relationship with Muslim nations; ravaged our Constitutional protections; scarred our collective psyche; divided our nation; served as recruitment incentive for would-be terrorists; and replaced our national philosophy of promoting peace and freedom with “aim for the towel,” “with us or against us,” “defeat the evildoers,” “bring it on,” and “wanted: dead or alive.”
What other issue in America has more far-reaching repercussions than these wars? What other campaign plank carries the weight of torture, decapitation, kidnapping, waterboarding, wiretapping, indefinite detention, bankruptcy, theft, rape, and mass murder?
Please read this from Amy Goodman. There is no more important issue in America today. The terror wars will impact your children’s lives, their children’s lives, and will be a scar on American history forever.
When will it ever end?
That mostly didn’t happen
Yes when young voters of 08 saw Wall Street bailout, Med world get the health care prize and then that little thing you mentioned JOBS. Then cheif of staff thinks I need to be drug tested and every one else in the wh is angry at the voters.
Real Change can only happen with a steady continuous progressive movement.
Yes I agree but there has to be some movement on the other side to show voters they need to come to the polls and bashing them isn’t it. It should be fun to see if the wh will do anything for the 99ers in this lameduck congress, I’m saying the rich get their tax cuts and the 99ers become homeless if they aren’t already. Oh the there that wonderfull cat food group that o put in place that should a laugher also.
Everything is on schedule, please move along.
The Democrats of who I joined in 1971 did it to themselves. They made corporatist deals on prescription drugs and on the health care system.
Many Liberals including myself will go to the polls and vote for local Democrats only and write in dead people for federal office of Senator, Representative.
Because Andrew Cuomo has talked like a fiscal conservative I decided to abstain from voting and write in FDR.
The Liberal Democratic Party of the United States will do what the Democratic Party failed to do
http://www.twitwall.com/view/?who=DEMOCRATZxORG
I think many mid-term non-voters (myself included) think that the past couple years have amply demonstrated that no matter who is in office in the current electoral system, the rich will always get richer and the poor always remain poor. So why validate an electoral process that is functionally meaningless?
And if that doesn’t excuse you doing your duty, what will you offer next?
Because if the Republicans get in again it will be even worse. that’s why.
the Christain right is already gearing up.
I’m not voting FOR Obama, I’m voting for my country. and I’ll tell you the thing son the back of the ballot in my state are enough to curl my hair. co0nstituional amendments; property tax hikes, ending the public regulatory commission…like that
No public option = Nobama in 2012
But he will make millions on the book and speech tour. That’s all he was ever after anyway.
IOW, Obama’s Hope-a-Dope likely has turned off the very voters he needed to turn out. Way to go, o master manipulators of media messages.
Let’s remember that Obama was getting the Wall Street money long before he was the frontrunner, which is unheard of. Maybe he’s just being ever so “rational,” that hobgoblin of small minds.
I can just hear him say, “Fuck the small donors, I’m going with the big money guys like Goldman Sachs.” ‘Cuz that’s what he’s done, right?
As many have pointed out, he could’ve chosen to keep families in homes and American citizens themselves solvent, but no, what did he do? Saved his campaign contributors, in the process joining the worst Public-Private Partnership Program in US history.
If the Obama and the Wall Street Democrats ever really wanted to do right by average Americans, would goddamn Goldman Sachs have backed them to begin with? This is the same group of ‘best and brightest” who managed to convert the American dream of home-ownership into a living homeless hell for millions of very real Americans. Goldman Sachs was Obama’s second biggest campaign backer (oddly enough, after only University of California).
Fuck the Obamacrats and the goddamn Goldman Sachs they rode in on.
For those of you keeping score at home, that’s $3,449,317 just from the banks, many of the very same perps who crashed the economy. Is it any wonder the crime spree goes on, now under new management?
I seriously think they thought they’d just carry on with the control fraud and sell themselves as better than the crazy Republicans (Brand Obama was voted brand of the year, remember?), absolutely underestimating just how well we see through the masquerade.
Now we’re all fucked. Fucking best and brightest my bankrupt ass. (h/t George Fucking Carlin)
Uh oh, they are doing that flashy thingy!!!
http://my.firedoglake.com/twolf1/2010/11/01/i-remember/
Besides, Obama isn’t on the ballot. Taking everything out on him only proves that the person doing it is a meat puppet for the GOP.
If I piss some people off with this, oh well, the non voters are going to get a bit of my mind:
I happen to agree that our system is broken. Dreadfully and perhaps irreparably broken. We can’t even start to fix it until the money is taken out of the system. I admit that it sucks and that I don’t have all the answers. However I am reasonably confident that the answer isn’t for people to sit on their asses and not do their duty as a citizen. In our admittedly broken system, punishing the Democrats always means rewarding the Republicans, however unworthy and this year’s crop of them are certifiably batshit insane.
Vote Republican if you must or vote green or write somebody in if you are so easily manipulated as to think that throwing a temper tantrum has any better chance of succeeding in teaching the Democrats a lesson as shifting your weight from foot to foot has of causing the Earth to begin to wobble uncontrollably. Whatever you do though, go vote. If you don’t, what makes you think anybody will grant your future whining about what’s going on any credibility at all?
I and a lot of other people served this country so you could have the right to vote or not and if somebody chooses to abuse that privilege by staying home and holding their breath until they turn blue, then don’t even come around me bitching when inevitably shit goes from bad to catastrophic and the Democrats you despise fail to learn the lesson you are convinced taking your toys and going home will teach them.
Full stop.
Can’ be watched often enough: Carlin at his best
Hear Hear!
I didn’t leave the Democratic party; it left me.
The plutocrats and aristocrats depend on a disengaged under educated electorate and the electorate never disappoints. “Independents” are the worst. Their laziness masquerades as “thoughtful” consideration.
Thank You for summing that up in a few words. It’s simple, when he took office the economy was tanking and it still feels tanked , the Wars were to be wound down but they are still raging, Wall st. ripped us all off and it still is. The D’s want say they tied our shoe laces for us and that’s Change and Hope. Fuck them, they’re the real retards not us.
Obama and the dems didnt give us anything to lose or fight for. If they were trying to end the wars we cld rally around that but he isnt. If they had fought for universal health care and the republicans were trying to take it away we cld rally around that. If they had a massive jobs bill in place that was bringing down the unemployment rate we cld rally around that. If they were trying to extend unemployment benefits for the 99ers we cld rally around that. If they were trying to close GITMO and get to the bottom of the Bush war crimes we cld rally around that. The only thing Obama and the dems have given us to rally around is him and its just not enough. Obama, Reid, and Pelosi were given a once in a lifetime opportunity to lead this country and they punted it away. They deserve the ass kicking they are about to receive tomorrow.
You served so that we could vote? I must have read some of what you’ve shared. Sorry. I totally misread.
I understand that you, along with a whole bunch of others of us, are frustrated, undemployed. Feeling scared. You are not alone. But, let’s try to be real. Don’t get me started on All the reasons that people Choose to join the military. Respectfully sumitted.
I didn’t mean to make it sound like I served entirely for altruistic reasons or that my reason for joining was so you could vote but that is just one result of my service, along with all of the millions of others that ever served. You, of course, knew this before you wrote your response as I’ve told you why I joined so don’t get me started on people trying to pretend that they have to interpret everything said 100 percent literally. Respectfully submitted as well.
Peggy, I’m just tired of hearing people here saying thay care more, and have served better. I’m just tired of hearing it. I hope you understand.
I agree fully, but will still feel the boot on my ass as well.
Another good post. Yup, I’m still unemployed and it’s been two years since I graduated from college. I barely get by doing freelance work. This is not what I voted for in 2008. Shame on you Obama and shame on Obots who compromise their core principals, if they have any.
I also realize, big surprise, that people get Ramped Up at election time. I’m going to go watch the baseball game, that I totally don’t even follow, but at least it won’t upset me. :) Because that’s better for me and mine.
WOOHOO! You go, girl.
Did you happen to see Robert Parry’s article busting that exact myth? Namely, the myth that punishing the Dems will teach them a lesson? Sounds fine, if you’re mouthing off from atop a bar stool, but the facts don’t bear it out.
The ‘Teach-the-Dems-a-Lesson’ Myth
By Robert Parry (A Special Report)
October 15, 2010
I’m not endorsing the generic Democratic Party, by any means. They’ve put themselves, and us, in this horrible position by failing to govern in the broad interest of all of us.
But just to sit out the vote? Nothing gets me going more than people who take for granted what others have died to guarantee.
And another thing! Why isn’t election day an effing federal holiday? If voting is so damn important to us as a nation, how come you can get fired for doing it during business hours? Makes it sound dirty.
Carlin! Thanks, I watched a different video of him last night, can you tell? ; }
Great idea for an invention designed specifically for American elections: The combination voting booth/porto-potty. This way the American voter can simply throw his or her ballot directly into the shitter and cut out the middleman.
Last I heard, it doesn’t take a whole day to vote. Also, I thought employers were supposed to allow their employees time to vote. Am I wrong? Those voting in this household will be at the polls at 6:45. No biggie. It’s important to us. Polls around here are open from 7:00 am until 8:00 pm. Seems like a big window to me.
A firm called Diebold already makes such a device.
Another lesser of two evils apologist. Yawn………………..
Demi,
Making election day a national holiday would solve most of that problem. But since Democrats and Republicans always want to depress turnout, this will never happen. Keeping turnout low brings little doubt into the result of any given election. If someone managed to get the current 50 percent of who don’t vote to the polls, this would throw most if not all the elections completely into doubt, something that the one corporate party with three right-wings does not want……………..
@Knowbuddhau and Margaret:
I can’t speak for anyone else but for me personally it’s not about teaching the Dems a lesson. It’s about not wasting my effing time and not lending false credibility to a transparently artificial system. Neither the Dems or the Repubs care about you or me or anybody else who doesn’t have money coming out of their ears.
“Pick your favorite conservative” does not equal democracy. I’m not voting tomorrow. And I’m also not going to see a professional wrestling match. I have no patience for things that are obviously fake.
So an earlier thread you were decrying the crazies on the right and now you’re mocking that folks might have to make a tough decision.
Concern troll much?
I’ve voted since I was 18, but this will be the first election I will take a pass. The system is too corrupt and I will no longer be voting. I understand those who believe their vote will make a difference, but I do not.
“If voting made a difference, they’d make it illegal.”–Emma Goldman
O sister, my erudite Sister, surely you know there’s a big difference between the rights we have and the rights we can afford to assert?
It’s a matter of priorities, isn’t it? What’s the whole freaking point of participating in this political economy: just to have a job, to be a servant on someone else’s plantation? Or are our jobs only means to an end?
Voter apathy is a huge problem. The fall-off votes alone will likely determine several outcomes. (See DDay’s earlier post if you haven’t already http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/11/01/2010-midterms-determined-by-non-voters-more-than-voters/ .)
Big window? Not in my world it ain’t. How ’bout the whole day? Can’t we say that voting is important enough for a day off? And then people could go to the freakin malls, ‘cuz it would soon devolve into the same consumerist morass as President’s Day etc.
And while I’m dreaming out loud, let’s make it paid. Why should we let our plantation masters decide that we can go vote on our breaks, if we dare take time away at all? As I’m sure you’re very well aware, my much admired Sister, some McDonald’s workers were explicitly told for whom to vote if they want raises. Lots of bosses use less obvious means of voter intimidation.
The whole day off, paid. How hard would that be?
Well, I guess that is ok. It depends on how old you are though.
I heard about the McDonald’s thing, too. It’s just awfull out there. I’ve become so depressed about the whole job thing, I don’t even look anymore. All the part time jobs I’ve have the last three years sucked. Bit time. I pinch pennies and try to be a nice person. Most of the time. It’s the best I can do.
Congratulations, but I do hope you’ll have the decency not to bother us with your now irrelevant spoutings about a process from which you abstain, as if that was going to help you or anyone else.
Good luck with abstinence. Choosing not to decide for yourself is still making a choice. More like, allowing others to choose for you. You’re fine rationalization for abdicating a right so very hard won notwithstanding.
What you’ll be teaching them is that no amount of criminality will be opposed meaningfully at the ballot box.
Look, brutal, I have fewer illusions about our electoral process than you might imagine. For one thing, I subscribe to the Black Box Voting mailing list. So I’m up-to-date on election fraud. Aside from a spurious sense of smug superiority, how does not voting do anyone a damn bit of good?
Sit it out, go ahead, but please don’t expect anyone to give a shard of credence to what you say henceforth. I know I won’t.
Once upon a time, back in the fall of 08 I had great hopes that Obama could be another FDR. I come from a long line (5-6 generations) of FDR democrats… Don’t know of one that ever wavered even though I suspect that sometimes it was with resignation rather than enthusiasm. But as my great-grandaddy once said…. “Say what you will, but that boy (JFK) got them missles out of Cub(er) ” . Living along the gulf coast, we were highly interested in that little contretemps.
Then came the spring of 2009. Each day I was glued to the tv/internet thinking, this will be the day…..thinking somebody was going to show up, take names and kick ass…. but each day Obama and congressional dems failed to capitalize on the financial crisis and lead the charge on the anger that was boiling. They totally totally blew it and since that time it has been a constant sellout month after month and day after day.
I’ll never vote for a Republican, and this old boomer has been lied to once too many times. I am almost to the point where I want the Republicans to win just so we can get this over and start again. The only thing that stops me, is not being convinced that we will be given an opportunity to start over. That and being, by George, tired of starting over again.
Do I believe all the corporatists got together in a castle in Switzerland and plotted the takeover of our country? No, but individually they have discovered that they don’t need us anymore…save a clerk or two at Nordstrom and possibly a few UPS drivers. Who wants to take monthly trips to a factory in Cleveland when you can stay in NY and play trader on Wall Street. They simply no longer believe that a strong middle class is important in keeping them in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed. The tragedy is that they are right. They’ve got an emerging middle class in China and India to pillage and besides they can up-sticks at any moment and go wherever the population is more tractable. One morning we are going to wake up and it will be too late. The people with the pitchforks will already be roaming the streets and contrary to popular opinion, I’m afraid we are going to be the ones on the sharp end. With our current fearless leaders, it’s pretty much guaranteed.
So, tomorrow I’ll go vote, mostly so I can vote against Jeff Miller…not even a dem running against him…just a couple of non-affiliated. And at least I can make it so that Marco Rubio doesn’t get every single vote in the panhandle. I’ve got no enthusiasm, but I’ll do what I think is right. Besides, it makes my neighbors blood pressure go up when I swan in with a ‘D’ button somewhere on my person…. And hey, it’s November, the humidity is down, it’s cool in the mornings and it will be a nice walk. I can understand people not wanting to vote, don’t blame you, but I feel compelled…bottom line, Margaret is right in that If we don’t get the money out of politics we’re done. As for me, I think it’s already too late.
Mary, I’m past 40. :)
Been let down too long. Sick of being dumped on by pols. We need people power.
Question is, will Obama learn from this mess?
My best guess – NO. What a waste of a Presidency.
Margaret…I love your passion, but I just can’t pull the trigger. If Prop 19 was on ballot, I’d vote for that. But I can’t do it for these corrupt pols.
–Does that make me a baby?– ;)
That’s a big move. I know that if voter turnout was 80% it would make a big difference. Even these techno-fascist efforts at fraud wouldn’t stand up to that. But on a practical level it ain’t gonna happen. But it’s REALLY not gonna happen if people like us who’ve voted since age 18 stop voting.
HA! I’m such an airhead sometimes. I just realized I linked to the same thread we’re on. D’oh! Methinks I need a break from reading.
After the 2008 crash, I began reading anarchist books, and it opened a whole new world for me. There’s something very wrong in this country and I needed something, an alternative, to shine the light on the problem. Emma Goldman did that for me.
I believe there are many more like me out there who need answers. Like I said, I was a mainstream Dem for many years–but something has changed for me.
Can you write in? I suspect that, to our MOTU, under the principle of silence equaling consent under the law, a non-vote will be taken as a mandate for more of the same.
We can choose to make ourselves not count, or choose to be counted, in the way our consciences deem most fit. I think the control fraudsters are counting on non-votes to retain a fig leaf of authenticity for their crimes.
Look at how quickly poll results go from responses from a finite group to spinmeister-written questions at a single point in time to “all Americans believe X.” If we don’t make ourselves count, we can be damn sure the MOTU won’t do it for us.
What, do we think they’ll look at the non-votes and say, now there’s the demographic to which we need to pander? Hardly. The lesson will be, teh crazy sells at the ballot box, therefore, let’s go crazy, at least we’ll win the Ring of Power, and we all know we’re the only ones to be trusted with it.
Looking forward to many concession speeches, and Pelosi slithering off into her limo. No more private airliner for you sweetie.
Good times, kampai!
The Democratic Party — nothing to offer but fear itself.
Nobody died for me to have the right to choose between two conservatives in different wrapping paper, thank you very much. Go ahead and go down to the school or firehouse, pull the magic lever or touch the magic screen and go on pretending you’re doing something meaningful if that’s what makes you feel better but honestly it’s worse than a waste of your time. By voting all you’re doing is saying “Yes, I approve of these ‘choices’ before me and I buy into the validity of the American political process”.
Reject the false choice. Until American political campaigns have absolutely no private funding involved this slate of billionaire-approved candidates is simply all that you’ll be able to choose between and your elections will be no more meaningful than a soap opera.
Funny you should mention anarchists, vr. In my efforts to understand how I ended up bankrupt, I’ve been reading a lot of financial blogs. A commenter at maxkeiser.com, Adam C., has an explication of it that is surprisingly Eastern/Buddhist/organic. You’ll have to tell me if it’s vegan. : ]
He starts with the word itself: an-arch-ic. WTF does it even mean? Without an overarching system of control imposed upon, as compared with arising from, a complex system.
Here in the West, we take the mythical Creator of the Known Universe for granted, right? On the Right, he’s a war god, one who creates the world by the miraculous power of his spoken word — his fiat. He creates it (and make no mistake — this god is imagined not just to have balls by definition, he’s got the biggest balls of them all), making it his pivate property, and so he can destroy it, too (see also The Flood motif in myth and legend).
Now, the Creator can be a patriarchal god, or Newton, or Donald Trump or Donald Freakin’ Rumsfeld, it doesn’t matter once you’ve enthroned them, as long as you agree to devote yourself to their Word.
Compare that with an organic cosmos, one that develops and differentiates from within.
What we have in place now is the aftermath of the wars between the Church and the princely States of Europe. Both believe the cosmos is a construct, a mechanism put together by commands and held together by controls. They differ on whether god is necessary or not, on which subject Hawking has opined recently.
Is there a cosmic tyrant-engineer, a King of Kings, whether that be mythical or physical, who makes the world do what he commands by force? Or is there another way looking at life?
The other way, obviously, is the organic way. In this sense, Adam C. explicates anarchy as being a way or organizing ourselves that’s more organic than mechanical, more native than alien, more endogenous than imposed.
If you’re interested, I can look up the posts and emails.
So write someone in. Plenty of people haven’t just died willingly, we’ve murdered millions in the name of the right you so cavalierly throw away.
Too bad they didn’t die enough for you to notice. Too bad they’ve been killed in the name of a process that you deem unworthy of your participation.
Must you either do as you’re told, or do nothing but spin self-exculpatory bullshit?
Silence equals consent under the law. Your silence protects precisely no one from the predations you so rightly denounce. Good luck with that, but thanks for nothing just the same, fellow American.
I would like to read those books. Some years back a friend was giving me the details of this modern anarchist creed, and I found myself reacting viscerally to what she was saying. I got it on an intellectual level. In a sense she was describing how we all want to live. But it all left out two fundamental aspects of human beings: that we are social to a goddmaned fault and that some will always seek power over others.
Social beings can never really be the rugged individualists we often pretend to be, either in a Randian sense or my friend’s concept of anarchism. We will act with others to gain and exploit, some will act with others to protect. So it is that I am a strong supporter of the mediating force of a government, and the vote. Ideally I want the weaker and less protected to have an equal say in that government, and that this government should be accountable, via secret ballot, to all.
This is all rehash…sorry to bore you. What I mean from the heart is that it matters to me that you choose not to vote. I don’t know you but you don’t sound angry or defiant like some expressing that view. Perhaps a bit tired. But you and I are likely from the same generation, both voting since 18 each election, staunch Democrats now disgusted with the wretched donkey. Hearing you say that you would literally disenfranchise yourself leaves me with a feeling of hopelessness and dread not unlike the one that crept in my nerves upon hearing my friend’s summary of anarchism.
I guess the only actual point I’d make in favor of voting is that the distance between the toilet we’re in and the (at least somewhat) better place we want to be is really not that far. Some talk of the ideal of the post FDR America 1946-1973. Not ideal for all, or in all ways of course but a true and historically unprecedented era of gains for the working class. No equal in history. And yet 70 years before this era’s Zenith we had the most repacious grubby corporatist form of industrial capitalism on the planet.
How many countries went, over the past 20 years, from holding sham elections with only one viable party to having 2 or 3 or 10 choices on the ballot? People in those places had a right to be ten times as cynical as we, and yet we’ve seen voter turnout in the 60-80% range — even after it became clear to them that capitalism’s manipulations and corruptions were deeply imbedded in these “new realities” from day 1.
So I do believe that this current crop of scumbags can be turned back, at least a bit.
A lot of your non-voters are working poor. Right? Who are they gonna vote for that will represent them in Washington? There are candidates who talk about governing on behalf of all the people. But they never do it. Obama taught us if we didn’t already know. Voting doesn’t change anything for us.
It most certainly is unworthy of my participation and that of anyone else with common sense. Good luck with your masturbatory exercise in pseudo-democracy. Be sure to tell me whether Hulk Hogan or Randy Savage wins OK? Because it sure is so super duper important. Gosh, we should get the whole day off for our circle-jerk kleptocracy reaffirming exercise shouldn’t we?
And by the way, America didn’t murder millions in the name of democracy. America’s government which you should know by now is just the octopus arms of big businesses, couldn’t give two shits about democracy beyond people in whatever country voting precisely the way the U.S. robber barons want them to vote. Let them vote the opposite way, for someone who doesn’t sell his country out to the American capitalist ruling class whoremongers, and see how far America’s commitment to democracy goes. A good example is the Palestinian 2006 elections. Or when the U.S. found out that the Vietnamese referendum on unification under Ho Chi Minh’s government was going to go the way they didn’t want so they cancelled it. No, let’s not be naive. America’s big business government cares about American big businesses and anything they do, whether it is in Iraq or elsewhere, is done to serve those narrow interests.
The system, as you should be well aware by now, is not designed to be changed from within, by electing candidates that “speak to us” and we just know will change things for the better who turn out, unsurprisingly to those with more than sawdust in their heads, to be just more of the same. This is because they’re all bought and paid for before you or I have ever heard of them. By the time they get to a level of real name recognition they’ve long since gotten their wires attached to their arms and legs and are just marionettes of the ones who need everything to stay just the way it is. With privately funded elections this is about all one can reasonably expect.
The solution to this is much more long and drawn-out than going behind a curtain and pretending to be making a real decision. It’s a two-stage process that will take years. The first phase is educating the masses so that they become conscious of their plight and of their ability to change things with concerted action. This is the longer of the two phases. The second phase is turning that politico-economic enlightenment into a grassroots political party, organizing and if the avenues of change are as barricaded as they are now (which they almost certainly would be) then it is time for that movement to organize and carry out widespread non-violent civil disobedience to block off roads, rail lines, ports and airports and shut down whole cities, refusing to be moved. Like what the Bolivians did and finally got a government that represents the will of the average Bolivian. That didn’t happen overnight either but it happened. And it didn’t happen by the Bolivians trudging to the voting booths and choosing between this or that puppet of the wealthy because unlike many Americans they realized how corrupt and artificial their electoral system was and how it offered absolutely no avenue for redress of their grievances. You’re not going to change this country into something worth being proud of by acting entirely within the existing system, it’s far too crooked for that. Tearing it down and starting over with a new foundation is the only real solution. Electing this one or that one to add new and pretty windowdressing for the crack house isn’t going to cut it.
BRAVO! Would t’were we had more Americans like you, sixtysomething. From the Evergreen State, I bow in your virtual Sunshine State direction.
Either we make ourselves counted, or we get made. I do hope those who abstain from voting will also abstain from carping.
When you walk into that polling place, or sit down to fill out your absentee ballot, please, I beg you, fellow Americans, ask yourself one simple question: what would Bugs Bunny do?
I can only hope you put this much effort into changing the system about which you bitch at such length. Sorry the blood sacrifice of uncounted millions just isn’t enough enough reason for you to participate at all.
We’ve all got their blood not just on our hands, friend, it’s sunk in so deep by now, it’s who we are. Good luck wiping that off with your pious abstinence.
Spare me the guilt trip. And speak for yourself. I haven’t considered myself an American since March 2003. And again, nobody died for me to be able to choose between two Republicans and nobody for anyone who isn’t filthy rich. Iraqis didn’t die for democracy, they died for the oil barons who couldn’t bear to see Saddam privatize the country’s state-owned oil infrastructure with France’s Total and Russia’s LukOil as the beneficiaries instead of American supermajors. Please try to understand that most every war throughout history has economic motives. All the “dying for freedom and democracy” bullshit is simply that, bullshit aimed at rubes who don’t know any better and don’t bother to read beyond the headlines.
So good luck with your participation in the Great American Dog & Pony Show of 2010 and be sure to let me know which bunch of conservatives win OK? I can barely keep them straight as they’re nearly indistinguishable and for all the good either does for the average person in this country they may as well merge. But if they did then it would destroy what remains of the illusion for the overgrown children who think they are participating in something more meaningful than raking leaves or taking a nap.
Just to put a blunter point on my argument, I just talked to a close friend who had his right to vote stolen by a bogus charge in the bogus war on pot.
Think about that, o ye pious abstainers. You’re choosing not to exercise a right others can only dream of having restored. Not to mention all the Indians not considered whatsoever, the blacks who were lynched, the impoverished newly-arrived whites who were turned away, all the multiple millions we’ve killed in the name of the American way.
Bad news, self-righteous ones. It’s way too late to keep the stain of wrongfully spilled blood off your hands. The brutal truth is, it’s within your hands themselves. So do something worthy of it already.
Thanks for the post Duncan. If you want to explore anarchism, I’d suggest Proudhon, Bakunin, Tolstoy, Kropotkin, Goldman and Bookchin. William Godwin started it all in the 18th century. The poet Shelley was also an anarchist (ie his poem “Mask of Anarchy.”) I could go on.
Here you will find many of the thinkers I mentioned above: http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_Archives/ There are full text pamphlets here.
Also try this site: http://theanarchistlibrary.org/
Enjoy.
Hey vr! Let’s talk anarchism sometime. Did you see my post @50?
Bahaha! My comment is awaiting moderator approval. I’m not surprised, even I often have a hard time telling whether I’m being offensive or not.
Sorry if I’ve gotten carried away, brutaltruth. I just watched a George Carlin video.
And sorry mods. Damn my overwrought erudition! I’ll try to keep the Shakespearean allusions to a dull roar from now on. Which really sucks, ‘cuz I was just getting warmed up. ; }
Thanks for the links. I have been curious.
Exactly, giving Democrats support when they stabbed the electorate in the back is not going to happen this time. I think we’re better off watching Obama and Congress self-destruct without our help.
Oh, yeah I did. Just got home from work.
The interesting thing about anarchism is that many Buddhists consider themselves anarcho-pacifists. The media always portrays anarchists as terrorists–and sure there were and are anarchists who use violence–but like any political philosophy there are many shades and varieties.
The other thing that people misunderstand is that with the rise of the Right during the Reagan years, they appropriated tag “libertarian” from the historical anarchists. Rand Paul is not a libertarian. He is a hard right capitalist, who believes in hierarchy and property rights. This is antithetical to mainstream anarchism. But as we know, the Right is very could at muddying the waters and appropriating terms so they lose their original meaning.
Sure, you are quite welcome. Once you immerse yourself, it may change your life! Tell me what you think. As I said, I’m still on a journey of discovery myself.
OK every time I post it is getting erased by the mods, great. How do I cancel my membership here?
~~~ModNote: Abusing other commenters may result in the moderators removing your comments. Please remain civil.~~~
Alright now it’s not getting erased but there’s still a deleted post of mine without so much as a “post removed by moderators” tag, just vanished like a fart in the wind. Mods, please do restore that post. Thank you.
You shouldn’t have said anything, I was beginning to suspect it was a technical problem.
Unless you served during WW2, which was the last credible threat to American sovereignty, your decision to work for the U.S. military (or even the rather unfortunate possibility of your having been drafted) is in no way related to my decision to vote or not in U.S. elections.
Ah yes, the lesser of two evils voting philosophy. Color me unimpressed.
you know, you can learn from folks who do not attend your church, you shouldn’t be so certain that yours is the One True Path.
and, if you are acquainted with that rampant error and fraud associated with the computerized voting systems, how can you still believe that your Sacrament has meaning?
abstention or 3rd party advocacy gets censored more heavily here just prior to elections, when FDL and the rest of the (D) captured ‘progressives’ are very concerned with ‘get out the vote’.
it is not my first go ’round on this.
this comment to you itself will likely be held ‘in moderation’ for 12 hours, but I’ll follow up with you so you can see what they try to prevent their little firepups form having to see.
Apparently not so true lately, I’m glad to say. While the lesser-evilists came out in force early in this thread (guess they’re really getting scared now), the relatively few who stood up and said “Hogwash!” by and large seemed to escape censorship.
Rachel was shilling for all she was worth tonight – even had a Democratic strategist observing that if everyone watching her show called or emailed everyone they knew it could make a difference. She herself appeared more resigned to a bloodbath, but painted the rosiest, noblest picture imaginable of King Obama and his Knights of the Corporate Table passing truly historic legislation even at the expense of their political futures.
Probably quite touching for those without much of a clue.
That may all be true.
I’m still awaiting the comments from ‘chuck the dems’ adherents explaining what the next x-number of years will be like legislatively. What will what’s left of the Republic become in this interim period?
Confront that specifically and directly and we can talk.
“What will what’s left of the Republic become in this interim period?”
What the hayall’s become of it since Obama declared his admin and went to work?
*G*
We’re in the toilet, the handle was pulled long ago, the water, waste and we are all going down . . . I don’t see arguing the flow rate as being an issue or being of any merit to our predicament.
*G*
A fatalistic vision of today and beyond is unpersuasive, unless accompanied by a clear-eyed assessment of what is to result from the choices we make tomorrow.
If you have predictions or even educated guesses, I am all ears.
Hmmm. I suppose I could counter with demanding that YOU explain exactly why the past 4 years of Democratic Congressional rule, coupled with the last two years of a Democratic presidency, give us any reason NOT to chuck the Dems. But then we’d just be two people refusing to talk, which is not likely to be very productive.
So: No bad legislation can pass AT ALL during the next two years even if Republicans take back both houses of Congress by anything short of veto-proof majorities in both (which they’re just not going to get) – unless Obama and/or some Congressional Dems go along with them. This situation would arguably constitute an improvement, since some unquestionably bad legislation HAS passed during the last two years.
Now, during that time, all the Congressional Dems who lose their jobs tomorrow (plus all their remaining cohorts who’ll lose things like committee chairmanships and the smug security of being in the strong majority) will have the opportunity to ask themselves whether the path that they followed recently was the right one. IMO the most important thing is that they lose those jobs and those perks, but second on the list is that they understand WHY they lost them – and seeing a dramatic drop in Democratic turnout (rather than a massive SHIFT to Republican voting) is one of the better ways of giving them a clue (of course, we should also TELL them: suitably-phrased condolence messages will be in order).
Within not all that many months we should be able to see whether any lesson has been learned. Some of us are willing to repeat this strategy as many times as it’s needed, but even the rest ought to be willing to try it just ONCE, given the relative security of having veto power in the White House.
What I’d LIKE to see is the realization that, to win, Democrats have to stand for something more than just not being Republicans. Of course, you could argue that Obama and the Dems won’t stand up against Republicans any more than they did while holding strong majorities. That may in fact happen (in which case many of use will just continue pounding the lesson home until either it produces real change in the party or sufficient destruction of the party to leave room for better representation to bloom), but if it does, then exactly how would you argue that this is much worse than what we’re enjoying today?
The bottom line is that, as others have observed, this is a particularly safe time to attempt this experiment – even for those far less convinced of its necessity than people like me. I firmly believe that Howard Dean was right almost 8 years ago when he said that FIRST we need to reform the party before we can change the country. We’ve tried it the other way around since then and it’s failed abysmally – so let’s try doing it right this time even if the reform process requires some interim Republican Congressional (or even presidential) rule.
Because the Republic is continuing to decline under current Democratic rule, and nearly as precipitously as it did under Bush. So just ‘staying the course’ with the lesser evil is NOT going to get us anything but more decline, rather than any actual reversal of direction.
This is incalculably incorrect.
Since the day he took office, this President has swerved well beyond his already Rightest tendencies, into Reaganesque territory, and beyond. What on Earth makes anyone think he is now going to swerve Left? All the money over here? All the votes?
You are kidding, right?
I am dead serious.
Anyone at all have a clue what will hit the President’s desk, and what he is inclined to do with it?
All of the “F*** the Dems” (of which I am partly at home) care to look a few months forward and see what we are about to do? How we counter the wretched results, however satisfying turning the Democrats away may feel?
Here’s an example:
Obama mercilessly trashed Pro-Choice for health care legislation that was a bad deal going in. He bowed because he wanted a win more than he wanted health care reform.
He will compromise further because the wretched Left is that much weaker, and there’s nothing he likes better than giving gifts to Mitch McConnell.
I think you’d better read the post that you just replied to a lot more carefully: you clearly didn’t understand what it said, in general, and in particular seem to have missed most of the 5th paragraph (the last paragraph is also pertinent to your response: both pose specific issues which you really need to address before dismissing the rest of the post).
As I observed earlier, lesser-evilists are likely really getting scared right about now. But that’s no excuse for abandoning disciplined analysis and critical thinking here.
I read it very carefully, and to that I repeat my initial comment:
Trashing the Democrats, while satisfying in a couple of respects, does not answer this query. If we expect the administration to veto horrid legislation, as you point out, it hasn’t so far.
Where will we be when the upcoming Congress has done it’s work? How do we counter it? How do we prepare for it?
This is not a plan.
Because taking pleasure or solace in what’s about to happen is nothing short of nihilism if we don’t have a vision of what it will bring.
Well, I’ll accept your assertion that you read it carefully, in which case it’s clear that you didn’t understand it very well.
I explained why at least the next couple of years will be no worse than the last few – UNLESS Obama and his cohorts in crime allow them to be, in which case there’s no reason to expect that they’ll be any worse under a Republican Congress than they would be under a more Democratic Congress which would act similarly. So in both cases kicking out the Dems will have no significant effect upon the quality of legislation, in which case the ability to predict EXACTLY what the nature of the passed legislation will be is not relevant to deciding whether to kick them out (which is not to say that we shouldn’t be taking OTHER steps to attempt to improve the quality of legislation, just that reelecting Dems won’t do anything to help achieve that result).
Forcing the Democratic establishment to choose between being elected or being destroyed is very much a plan – a plan with the potential to produce desirable results regardless of what their decision may be. When contrasted with the ‘plan’ of just continuing to elect them, it’s a damn GOOD plan.
In fact, even just throwing a massive monkey wrench into the Democratic machine without having a clue what results it might produce is a significantly better plan than just continuing to elect them – because the one sure thing is that maintaining the status quo is a recipe for continued rapid decline.
Lesser-evilists keep trying to portray such plans as infantile tantrums, when in fact they’re very sober responses to a situation that offers no options as attractive as continuing to delude ourselves that somehow, some time, the Democratic party will rediscover its roots and shape up WITHOUT being forced to. That’s a far more comfortable course of action, to be sure, but anyone who seriously believes in it after the past two (more like 4) years of Democratic failure to change our country’s course in any meaningful way is simply incompetent.
OK, one more time, simplified:
Do you have any ideas at all about how to cope with what is coming? And you know what is coming.
Reforming or bollixing the Democratic party cannot be the only consideration, unless it’s about vengeance. And if it’s about vengeance, you have several hundred million people who would like an explanation.
Simple is good. Simple-minded – not so good. Since you appear to have been unable to understand what I’ve said previously I’ll lay it out again in a different format which you might find more accessible:
1. I don’t pretend to know EXACTLY what’s coming because I don’t know EXACTLY how completely corrupt and beyond reason the national Democratic party is.
2. Therefore, I don’t know EXACTLY what we’ll have to cope with, though I have a general idea that it entails continued destruction of the middle class toward a dual-class society with an extremely small upper class with the vast majority in an underclass.
3. What I DO know is that to whatever degree that happens will in the short term NOT depend upon the results of the election today: either the Dems have some scrap of decency left, in which case they’ll be able to block any odious legislation that’s attempted regardless of how many seats they may lose (since they won’t lose enough to give Republicans veto-proof majorities), or they don’t, in which case it won’t matter how many seats they lose.
4. Therefore, the question of whether to try to kick out as many Dems as we can is completely independent of the questions you are asking: your questions are significant ones, but they’re not relevant to deciding how to vote today.
5. It’s over the LONGER term that the question of how we vote today starts to impact our future. If we continue to support the status quo (elect as many Democrats as we can), we KNOW that the short-term prospects will continue over the longer term (at least from all available evidence of how the current national Democratic establishment functions). But if we thrash them as thoroughly as we can, there’s a CHANCE that they’ll be forced to mend their ways, and if they don’t, and we persist, we should be able to weaken them enough to make room for some new party to start to take root.
6. Yes, that’s a long process. If you’ve got a shorter one that offers any realistic prospect of success, I’m all ears. Just don’t pretend that we’ll be worse off electing Republicans today than continuing to elect the Democrats who have so completely and blatantly failed us: they managed to sell most of their supporters lesser evilism in 2004 (thereby arguably losing the presidency that year: Bush Lite did not prove to be a salable item beyond the base), and again in 2006 (resulting in Congressional majorities), and again in 2008 (even after those Congressional majorities did not do what they campaigned and were mandated to do), and are trying again this year (even after the continued majorities and the presidency did not do what they campaigned and were mandated to do). But lesser evilism is now not just past its sale date: it’s covered in visible mold, and you have to close your eyes and hold your nose really tightly to ignore that fact.
So stop imputing motives (‘vengeance’) and raising up straw men (‘the only consideration’) to something you still can’t seem (or simply refuse) to understand at all. Thrashing the party is ONE effective measure that we can start taking TODAY that has NO adverse effect upon the many OTHER issues we should also be trying to address (the specific nature of which will in part depend upon how events unfold over the next months and years).
That’s exactly what I did and for exactly the same reasons.
But my motives in voting against Rubio are a little more paranoid.
I’ve seen what Jeb Bush did to Florida and I see the distinct possibility of a Jeb Bush run for the Whitehouse in 2016. I thought it would be Bush/Rubio but, as someone pointed out to me, they can’t come from the same state.
Jeb was always the more dangerous of the Bush boys. If you want to parley ‘corporatism’, you should have seen the menage a trois of money, politics and state government that went on down here for 8 years. The fallout just keeps on falling.
Obama doesn’t have the FDR juice but he does have enough personal popularity to be reelected in 2012. That will be certain if the Republicans are unable to co-opt the Tea Party and Palin is the conservative nominee. After that, the long memory trail of economic hardship, of not only the last two years but also the last 40, will grease the skids for Jeb at the national level the same way disdain for the Porkchop Gang did for him here in Florida.
Rubio is the opening gambit.
and
I will take that as a no. You have no plan except to blow up the Democrats and see where the pieces land.
Condescension as a response to a charge of nihilism and intellectual laziness is what you offer.
Nader would be proud. Dr. Dean, not so much.
Well, you’ve certainly proven conclusively that you can’t understand even repeated explanations, so there’s really no point in carrying on this conversation. A ‘Stepford Dem’ indeed, and apparently proud of it.
If you ever unblock your ears, I’d be happy to try again. Meanwhile, hope you enjoy today’s results – I expect to, starting in a couple of minutes when the polls close here.
Funny,that.
‘Throw the chips up in the air and we will play them where they land.’ advocate tells someone else to open their ears.
Why am I not surprised?
Because you still don’t have a clue: I already explained why the strategy that I’m pursuing was very different from what you describe above (though I also observed that simply throwing the chips up in the air would be superior to the strategy that you’re pursuing – perhaps that’s what confused you).
Right.
If I were running away from a nihilistic tendency and an utter intransigence about what governance lies ahead, that’s the comment I would make.
~~~EDITED IN MODERATION~~~ Projecting your own failings upon others, however, is not an effective (or legitimate) debating tactic: my words on this matter are still right here in the thread for your to read, should you actually be capable of understanding them.
By the way, the rout appears to be proceeding apace. Several Senate races are still up for grabs, but the House appears very soundly (and embarrassingly) lost.
~~~ModNote: Tuck in the elbows, please. Attack the message, not the messenger.~~~