So it appears that the House and Senate will hold votes on extending the tax cuts up to the first $250,000 of income, and letting the rest expire. But they don’t appear to be particularly hopeful that such a plan will actually pass.
“I think there’s a reality here which is that while it might be best to continue the middle-class tax cuts and raise taxes on higher income people, the votes are not there to do that,” said Sen. Joseph Lieberman, a Connecticut independent who caucuses with the Democrats. “I think everybody’s got to deal with a stark reality which is, are we going to leave here knowing that we haven’t come to an agreement and that everybody’s taxes are going to go up Jan. 1?”
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said he would like to schedule competing votes on the Senate floor. One would be on Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell’s bill to make all the tax cuts permanent; the other would be on a Democratic plan to extend only the middle class tax cuts. Neither is expected to pass.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said she plans to hold a similar vote on extending the middle-class tax cuts in early December.
I’ve been pretty confident that gridlock will prevail here, at least until the next Congress. When some members of the caucus are saying “wait until the deficit commission reports,” when it’s unclear whether they’ll come to any consensus either, you know that there’s a lot of buck-passing going on here. The votes may be useful just to show the priorities of each party, but they don’t appear to help arrive at a solution.
Let’s stipulate that the world will not end if all the tax cuts expire. The 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts did not work in their intended purpose of growing the economy or jobs. Just ask Mike Pence. If they expire, it places a burden on middle-class families, not one I particularly want to see. But the end result would be a tax system that is more progressive, where the wealthy pay more of their fair share.
Ezra Klein seems to think that Democrats should pair the tax cuts with unemployment insurance or increasing the debt limit. It seems to me that they could do that after the tax cuts expire as easily as before. They control the White House and the Senate. Their leverage does not end, particularly since they’re not likely to rule the filibuster out of existence. All it would take is 41 votes to not move forward.
Now, Grover Norquist seems to think that Republicans will benefit from a government shutdown this time around. But he’s fanatical, and he probably thought the same thing in 1995. It didn’t happen. Norquist probably has more juice in the House GOP caucus than John Boehner at this point, but Boehner does not want a shutdown. He’s mindful of how the public would react; they naturally associate cruel measures of this sort with Republicans, and Republicans won the last election. So there’s plenty of time for negotiation, if you want to use the tax cuts as a bargaining chip.
I think a shutdown is a serious danger, no question. But it’s a problem for the Republicans to solve, not the Democrats necessarily. Welcome to governing, GOP.




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If the middle class didn’t notice the Obama tax cuts when they happened, will they notice them going away?
grayson is frigging great and it brings me to tears we lost him
this youtube he demonstrates that the bush tax give aways translate into giving three million people a job every single year
amazing stuff there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-mZtdI7-hY&feature=player_embedded
I think for most of us those tax cuts would have been enough to buy a new table saw or an old refrigerator. They weren’t enough to matter. If the cuts expire, the government at least won’t be borrowing as much money.
I, for one, wouldn’t mind if they took away the middle class tax cut if it meant that they’d raise taxes on the excessively wealthy. The middle class won’t notice the increase that much, but the nation will benefit greatly from collecting a more fair share from the upper 5% or so. Bring it on.
That said, I fully expect the Kabuki show to result in extending the *&^% tax cuts indefinitely or until infinity stops, whichever comes first.
the ‘tax cuts’ to the middle and lower class amounted to one middle purchase, the tax cuts to the wealthy amounted to a 40,000 dollar a year job for two people
sick stuff
Disagree, somewhat. More like welcome to a chance to sabotage government, imo. Republicans’ best interest is seeing the government fail, to justify Reagan’s “the government is the problem” fatwa and further privatization. With their general control of the message, it will be blamed on Democrats anyway.
I wish I could think of a Republican, right now, who seemed genuinely devoted to improving the lot of all Americans. YMMV.
Good afternoon, Dday.
Let the whole damned thing expire. I will pay more just to see the well-to-do Mofos pay more. Screw ‘em.
The same elite who champion Warren Buffett as the “sage of Wall Street” were strangely silent when he suggested that the Bush tax cuts were great for the wealthy like him but did little to nothing for his secretary, who needed the money more than him.
Amazing.
I kind of agree with this. At least if the government shut down corporate interests would suffer. This is a good thing.
I understand some folks may be nervous about losing their jobs and are hoarding what cash they have, but really – how many people who are actually employed have it so bad right now?
Speaking as one who was unemployed for a year and will be again after December 17 if my contract doesn’t get extended, I would far rather see them all expire than all be extended. Especially if it means the rich get theirs by cutting off unemployment to that same middle class that are being held hostage.
The problem is that ordinary people would suffer more. People laid off, no social security checks going out, etc. It would hurt them tremendously.
I’m with YOU! NO tax cuts for anybody. This country’s in deep shit.
Of course, the Potemkin President has the power to end the wars, but he won’t, his handlers will tell him it’s a bad idea that will cost the MIC trillions in swag and we’d make up the shortfall.
Good points.
Again, people want to send messages, and they are all wrong.
I saw Norquist’s name — he’s up to no fucking good.
What was the issue that Jane agreed with Grover on?
I can’t remember (old age) was it health care?
Norquist and his sucking bathtub drain idea is over with and past prime. He needs to get over it and find something useful to do with his life.
If the Dems don’t stand up and do what is right on tax cuts, it will be remembered in two years. Just like the forgone promises of war exits, jobs, healthcare, finance regulation and a whole host of other items. Oh yeah, one being fair pay for women. They let that one slide right out under the rug without a pretend stomp.
OT: FYI Scarborough suspended for 2 days….ain’t that sweet…
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/msnbc-suspends-scarborough-donations-gop/
I very much agree except for the fact that the conservative noise machine will be telling them they went up every hour on the hour.
This will hurt his chance to be Prez.
He’s another dickhead who likes to play the independent thinking
game, when down deep he is a no-good fucking Repub…
Sure, that will happen. On the other hand, propping up a fundamentally flawed and corrupt system is worse in my view. The only way to hurt the corporatists is in the wallet, and they would suffer greatly from a government shutdown.
I think it’s a worthwhile tradeoff. Let them shut the government down. Then, maybe, finally, people will get angry enough to fight back. As long as we continue to try and limp the system along so the social security checks will keep going out the rich will keep gaining power. It’s painful in the short term, but for the best in the long term.
They need to stop taxing people altogether making under 50,000 per year or something like that and graduate it up by the 100,000 and stop loopholes and up the taxes on those making 500,000 and up salaries. Then they need to lower taxes on small businesses and fine and elevate taxes on any company outsourcing jobs.
Hey, we certainly aren’t getting representation! Might as well tax their corporate benefactors. Those are the people they listen to and dance with.
What are the chances is it even possible that the GOP could come into power pass tax cuts for the rich retroactively and totally Punk the Dems with Lieberman’s help?
Absolutely. Won’t happen with these criminals though.
Likely.
I second your idea but lets index the tax cuts to inflation other wise the government will just devalue the dollar more.
If that happens the GOP gets instant Cred for keeping their promises. Obama gets shown up as an ineffective leader by comparison.
Oh yeah…and free health care for everybody making under 200,000 or, of course, nationalized healthcare totally (using taxes on the rich to pay for it) and tax the hell out of the pharma industry…Let them eat v@@gra or something.
LS for Congress!
And make it mandatory for the rich only.
Hiya Elliott!!
With 20 to 30 million Americans out of work or under employed, I’m wondering if the gopers have even considered what their tax revenues will be for the next two years.
Evidently, they don’t care and will keep printing money to fund their own little issues that will continue to sink the economy and the country.
Can anyone explain to me why the Dems cannot pass a tax cut package for middle class through the reconciliation process in the lame duck.
Have the majority party bring up tax cut for millionaires next year.
Please explain that to me.
T-
I’m pretty sure that all of the tax cuts will be extended. They are all using all of the issues as negotiating chips and will be throwing in DADT and unemployment insurance into the stew as well…or not…
“When you ‘proclaim’ to be a leader that is promoting ‘hope and change’..you set the ‘bar’ high and you had better be a GREAT LEADER in order to keep people following you…Those were ‘lofty goals’ Obama had set for himself and now he has fallen short of ‘pulling that wagon’ up the hill..If he likes basketball, then he knows what it takes to be a ‘driven professional’ and he is falling short of that…Time for Obama to pick up the weights and ‘pump up’
Biden has been all over the news in the last couple of days…with his wife…and he chaired the START meeting. Strange.
When did the Democratic party join the Republicans in wanting tax CUTS??
Thom Hartmann explains why tax increases actually INCREASE wages for middle class Americans:
The Great Tax Con Job
Americans do not want to extend the Bush Tax Cuts for the Rich.
Have any of you seen this?
http://www.ocpp.org/cgi-bin/display.cgi?page=cp201011SmallBiz
http://www.ocpp.org/cgi-bin/display.cgi?page=nr20101116BushTa
I’m all for letting them all expire too.
Symbolic maybe. But this is a tailor made defining issue for the D’s. If they are rolled on extending the unaffordable, unpopular, unproductive goodies for the uber rich, what can’t they be rolled on?
Abso-friggomatic-lutely they will notice. Newspapers, the TV box, and especially Fox News will make certain that the middle class notices.
I expect plenty of overblown screaming, rather than realistic assessments.
Ha!! Delicious. KO makes two donations, JS makes eight.
I betcha this gets only a blip from the talking heads on Fox News since it was Republican candidates who benefitted.
It’d be tough to get that through the Senate, but I understand what you’re getting at.
The Republicans may have planned for Democratic attempts to play copycat. If the Dems try to become obstructionist, as the Repubs have done for the past couple (or more) years, it seems likely that the Repubs will have made contingency plans. If one can accept that possibility, then I do not see it as a stretch to also accept the possibility that the Repubs could have some kind of plan to circumvent the Senate.
When they say “taxes will go up on January 1″, it doesn’t necessarily mean withholding has to.
Most people get tax refunds, so why doesn’t the Obama administration leave the current withholding in place, for incomes below $250,000 a year, in anticipation of a Congressional fix?
This would be added pressure on Congress to fix the matter in a way that President Obama can actually sign.