Senior Administration officials tried to cast their deal on the Bush tax cuts in a positive light, even as forces on the left and right were mobilizing against it. The deal is so shaky that the White House officials and the President would only call it a “framework.” Several Democrats and Republicans in the House and Senate are already either simply opposed, or dedicated to mobilizing for defeat of the package, and the Senate Majority leader delivered a terse one-line statement only agreeing to discuss it with his colleagues. The biggest news here is that this deal isn’t done.
Just to outline this framework: under the deal, the Bush tax cuts for all rate levels would be extended for two years. The estate tax, in a monstrous deal, will be lowered from 2009 levels, with a $5 million dollar exemption and a 35% rate, for two years as well. And, the deal adds what is now an annual patch to the alternative minimum class so it doesn’t hit people in the middle class. In exchange, extended unemployment benefits between 26 and 99 weeks will be continued for 13 months, to the end of December 2011 (costing around $65 billion). A trio of tax cuts from the stimulus – the advanced Earned Income Tax Credit, the child tax credit, and the tuition tax credit known as the “American Opportunity Tax Credit,” would be extended, I believe for a year, at a cost of $40 billion. A new tax cut, an employee-side payroll tax cut of 2% (out of the 6.2% that employees pay), would be in place in 2011, at a cost of $120 billion dollars. A senior administration official responded to my question by saying that would be paid for out of general revenue through a credit, and so would not impact Social Security and Medicare finances in any way. And, there are an array of business tax credits in the deal, including two that the President noted in September – bonus depreciation allowing businesses to write off at 100% the cost of new investments, and the R&D tax credit. Senior officials punted when asked if assurances for votes on other agenda items, like new START and repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, were included in the deal.
Together, this gets you to close to $300 billion dollars in 2011-2012 stimulus, albeit focused about 80% on the tax side of things. A lot of the measures are anti-contractionary and not necessarily stimulative, as they extend current policy into 2011 (and for some policies, 2012). All of this is unpaid for.
The senior officials I heard going over this deal acknowledged there were parts to like and dislike, but said they got a much stronger plan on economic and job growth than they ever expected. They said they would have stopped the tax cuts for the wealthiest if they could, but they didn’t have the votes. They object to that policy as well as the regressive adjustment for the estate tax, and vowed to keep up the fight against those policies over the next two years. “These are fights we will live to fight another day.” But they said they have staved off a middle-class tax increase, fixed the AMT, got important refundable tax credits from the stimulus for millions of families, and targeted tax cuts to workers making under $106,000 (recipients of the payroll tax cut) and business investment. The typical family, said one official, would see $2,000 in tax relief from the extension of the tax rates, and another $1,500 from the payroll tax cut.
This is an acknowledgement that the economy is still fragile, and that stimulus must be prioritized over economic growth. Last week at this time, however, we had the President announcing a federal worker pay freeze and speaking about the importance of reining in the federal budget deficit. How can those completely muddled policies be reconciled? Furthermore, how can we be convinced that this “stimulus” will stand, and not be cancelled out by a contractionary budget in 2011 that slashes spending? After all, the President praised the Catfood Commission report, and the chairs of the two Budget Committees ever voted for it or found it not savage enough in its cuts.
I put the question directly to these senior officials. And they promptly didn’t answer it. They said that the point of the agreement is to have a big impact on families and tax relief, and that the White House wouldn’t allow those policies not to be implemented or take effect. Furthermore, freezing federal pay was a tough choice, and the President was forthright on what he didn’t like about this deal.
That’s not the point I was making (and I didn’t have the chance to follow up). The point is that the President has been emphasizing the budget for over a year. Now he just made a deal to put another $300 billion on the credit card (actually more than that, as a baseline above current law), and somehow we think that Republicans won’t use the other looming fights – over the debt limit, over funding the government in 2011 – to cut spending and basically undermine this plan significantly? The President’s message is unclear on this point, alternately prioritizing the budget deficit and then the need for stimulus.
This is why I thought that letting tax rates expire, ultimately, may end up a better deal than slashing spending significantly. And a lot of Democrats in and out of government agree. Bernie Sanders said he’d do everything in his power to block the bill. Jerry Nadler said Bill Clinton would have called the Republican bluff and let the tax cuts expire. Big donors actually shut down the White House switchboard in opposition to this deal. A Daily Kos poll has 74% of respondents against it. Rep. Peter Welch (D-VT) is circulating a letter to colleagues opposing the tax cuts for the wealthy, on a variety of grounds.
We oppose acceding to Republican demands to extend the Bush tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires for two reasons.
First, it is fiscally irresponsible. Adding $700 billion to our national debt, as this proposal would do, handcuffs our ability to offer a balanced plan to achieve fiscal stability without a punishing effect on our current commitments, including Social Security and Medicare.
Second, it is grossly unfair. This proposal will hurt, not help, the majority of Americans in the middle class and those working hard to get there. Even as Republicans seek to add $700 billion to our national debt, they oppose extending unemployment benefits to workers and resist COLA increases to seniors.
Without a doubt, the very same people who support this addition to our debt will oppose raising the debt ceiling to pay for it.
We support extending tax cuts in full to 98 percent of American taxpayers, as the President initially proposed. He should not back down. Nor should we.
Republicans are also not sold on this “framework.” Michele Bachmann told Sean Hannity she would have problems voting for it. Sen. George Voinovich (R-OH) will oppose any extension whatsoever.
Here’s the sum total of what Jim Manley, spokesman for Harry Reid, gave in response to the plan:
“Now that the President has outlined his proposal, Senator Reid plans on discussing it with his caucus tomorrow.”
Yikes.
Senior officials stressed this deal wasn’t done and could change. They said lots of this deal would not have happened if they didn’t extend the tax cuts, and that while there are aspects to the deal the President vigorously opposes, what they’re getting on the other side is a good deal, especially the UI extension. This aligns with the statement the President made.
I think there’s a real concern that this deal could fall apart. That’s why it’s called a “framework.”




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Were there any questions about the estate tax giveaway?
Given what a great deal this is, and how grateful we all should be,
I would have thought that the SAO’s would have been falling all over themselves to take credit.
P.S. Jane was great on the PBS Newshour. The Third Way guy was pathetic.
The contrast between two years of everything for rich people versus one year of unemployment benefits and one year of payroll tax holiday is quite striking. Does someone in the White House think the recession will be over for poor people in a year but last another entire year for rich people?
Because it doesn’t usually work that way.
Now are you saying the payroll tax cut will only apply to Social Security withholdings, not the Medicare tax which continues past $106,800 at a rate of 1.45%?
And are you also saying that taxpayers will only be able to deduct the 2% from their payroll withholdings, not go back at the end of the year and do it retroactively?
And how does “anonymous white house official” get $1,500 for the typical family? I get 2% * $50,000 = $1,000. I get the overwhelming benefit of this tax package going to the first and second quintiles. Someone needs to get this message out quick before Obama and the corporate Dems ram it through.
Is anyone even trying to stop this thing or is the progressive side of things just giving up?
I mean c’mon if Bernie is willing to try then couldn’t/shouldn’t we try to get to 41?
Vichy President – and the WH wonders why we voters “sank the fleet at Oran” this last November.
The voters won’t re-elect this Vichy President.
@2 – Yes, the two years for the rich folks and a pittance one year for the rest of us, struck me too.
Obama….meet shark.
He’s cuddly and fuzzy, he’s Obama.
I think Obama is positioning himself for the 2012 GOP nomination.
Obama may be cold blooded, and heartless when it comes to attacking the middle class, however that does not make smart! remember Bush attacked the USA middle class with vengence and he was no albert eistein.
How do you freeze federal workers pay one week, and give the ultra rich a tax cut the next week? Every democrat on the campaign trail in 2012 will get ask this question. (Obama really drop NEO-LIBERAL BALL HERE)
the intelligent left knows that Obama held the un-employment benefits hostage not the GOP, why wasn’t tax cuts discussed in september and october 2010? because OBAMA wanted to give the ULTRA RICH a TAX CUT
Obama? you have got to be a better NEO-LIBERAL than this! your masters expect more.
Maybe everyone is learning that the chances of OBAMA winning in 2012 is well a point above zero. Obama may lose the district of columbia to the GOP in 2012.
I here the PRIMARY CHALLENGERS lining up now to challenge OBAMA.
Obama is working hard to make sure that GWB is ranked higher as president. Right now, having George back in office sounds like a good idea. Disgusting.
“The rich deserve lots and lots and lots because they make all life possible.” – Preamble to the Reagamerica De Facto New Constitution
“Shut up and eat your garbage.” – Remy’s dad, “Ratatouille”
And let’s not forget Seniors. They have not had COLA adjustments to Social Security in 2 years.
Despite all the smoke and mirrors from the tech and housing bubbles, the economy does rest on some fundamentals. And this “framework” looks bad for those fundamentals. All these unpaid tax cuts, while funding one war with no end in sight and another war where we now have the largest embassy in the world, may look good politically in the WH. But it looks like a political action designed to please people in the short-term and hope they don’t think about the long-term…
And isn’t doing just that what brought about the Catfood Commission in the first place. If something comes out of the General Fund and Obama is warming up his chainsaw, he’ll look toward Social Security and Medicare, which even before this ridiculous deal he said those were on the table to hack up.
You know what sounds good except one little factoid.
Howabout we tie the unemployment extension to the tax extension.
So we start with 13 months unemployment ins. add 24 month tax extension and divide by two equals 19 1/2 month extension with the rest to be worked out before the next election.
Fair enough.
This will balloon the deficit, which in turn will serve as the alibi for the next round of cuts to screw the common citizens.
We’ve been had, big time.
F*ck…! Let it blow up in all their faces and let them die their ignominious death…! I hope Ellison and Grijalva talk to the Progressive Caucus and they stick a fork in that ‘framework’…! I’ve already told my Progressive Critter to vote no…! *gah*
Beggars can’t be choosers, I’ve been told by my grandma. We just don’t have the winning team, no guts and all, and our QB keeps running the wrong way. So I’ll take the unemployment and spit on the rest of it. That estate tax thing is just too much to bear. the payroll tax holiday is good so long as it doesn’t impact funding for SS. I hope they are clear to the american people what this does for them and to them. I have no idea how you stop the thugs from defunding the thing once they get the signed bill. Here’s hoping, er praying, for the best. Bring on the Obama challengers.
Have we yet had any of the yelping we got during the health care fiasco: that the president needs a “win,” never mind what’s actually IN the stupid bill?
A clear case of “fool me once, . . . “
What constantly comes out of the White House is their excuse for not fighting…they’ll always fight tomorrow. I remember this with healthcare reform with the excuses made for not fighting on that…we’ve got to take nationalized Romneycare combined the added backroom deals because it’s never the right time to fight for Obama. Of course for Obama and his underlings, it’s always the right time to hippie punch where they take a perverse pleasure in that. They hippie punch while making excuses for not fighting because they’re getting exactly what they want…making Obama a monument called the Arch De Full Retreat would be too much of an honor as he’s Judas rather than Wimpy.
Fuck obama and ever con mother fucker on both sides of the isle. I hope karma slaps them all with the intensity of ten thousand hot suns. I am done with the dems. Mission accomnplished obummer, you managed to sink the whole fucking party. But I guess that was his objective all along.
So he gives them MORE than they asked for, and actively SABOTAGES the Social Security Trust Fund! Pays for it out of “general revenues” is Catfood-CommissionSpeak for “we will drain it dry and be able to bankrupt it by 2020″.
This almost-man is SO desperate for a “win” (remind you of another loust deal he made?) that he will sell out working people, old people, the poor, and anyone else just to appease his Corporate Masters.
Primary Season can’t come too soon!!!
*heh* Ya mean ‘aisle’ right…? I do happen to live on an Isle, btw…! ;-)
I just read on Dkos that the unemployment will not apply to those over 99 weeks and there are already 2 million of them and that will grow. Fuck this bill !!!!
“Fighting” would not be bipartisan. Obama has to feed his fetish and if that means caving, well it’s merely the price for bipartisanship.
Thanks CTut, yes I meant aisle. I am so extemely mad. We need to figure out who will primary the pathetic fuck.
He’s warm, he’s cuddly, he’s fuzzy, he’s Obama.
“the payroll tax holiday is good so long as it doesn’t impact funding for SS”
This being done the President who gave us the Catfood Commission and the salary freeze. If we need such austerity for a freeze that saves $2B, just imagine the size of Obama’s hacksaw to pay for the $120B in the payroll tax alone.
Exactly, how is this son of a bitch calling himself a dem?
What a bucket of Frozen shit this “Compromise” is. Fuck BO. He is Toast!!
I’m telling you, Obama is up a creek. I’m pasting a comment I made a little while ago there. Pay attention to the positive recommendation number.
He’s lost even Kos.
Will your UI be extended?
Barack Obama is not just the worst Democrat ever. He is the Worst Possible Democrat™.
“they’ll always fight tomorrow”. – Reminds me of Scarlett O’Hara. Except for the fact that she was a fighter everyday…
I’m a 99er. So nope.
What are the 2 million people who can’t find jobs and lose their UI benefits going to do? Perhaps they should all make their way to Washington DC and live on the whitehouse lawn. After all it is the people’s house.
Shit. I have been thinking about you a lot.
We did not get the repeal of DADT via the defense bill – we did not get unemployment extension for two years so as to match the tax cut extension length – what the hell did we get?
We got a GOP wet dream for the rich plus some stimulus tax cuts plus a tax cut via the payroll tax – but that will “weaken Social Security funding” under GOP rules – making it easier to kill.
WE MUST KILL the BUSH tax cut extension. There is too little there – and next year we can let the GOP try to get cuts in return for stimulus spending.
We got what Obama wanted – but he is no Democrat.
Wait a minute. Obama’s a Democrat?
Who’da evah thunk it…? ;-)
We have the manchurian candidate that became the best potus the cons never had.
So have I…! 8-(
Any On-line prospects, Peg…? *g*
What does Obama think he is going to run on in ’12? He will name health insurance, of course, but there’s nothing else. If he were Pinocchio, he’d have to carry his nose around in a wheelbarrow. Jebbus, I am sick of this spineless man.
Tops Shrub even…! I mean Darth couldn’t have been more satisfied with the results…! ‘Cept maybe that Nigerian ‘nightmare’ that lingers…
It is a fucking crime. I thought as a progressive person we should deal with helping people and social justice. You know some good things that I suppose even Jesus would vote for. Now they are throwing people to the curb. those with 99 weeks, 2 million strong, like yourself, are out. And that number will be growing. This is a depresssion, not a recession. And O tells us “let me be clear about this…” or some such bullshit. Yeah, lets come back in 2 years and fight for justice, it is just too fucking inconvenient now.
He cannot escape what he has just done.
The public is not enthralled with “RomneyCare”, a creation of the Heritage Foundation. Obama is finished and the only hope for the Democratic Party is a primary challenge.
Thanks. Obama and the Democrats sure as hell aren’t. Feinstein refuses to even consider a fifth tier.
We need to primary her, too.
Shorter Obama, “I think you folks are so fucking stupid that I can say anything with a shit eating grin and you’ll lap it up like the starving mongrel dogs you are.”
Does anyone know of any psychological research on the slave mentality?
Yep. One of the worst legacies of Dan fucking White. That could have been Harvey Milk in her seat.
I think it’s called Stockholm Syndrom and Rich wrote about it in the NYT this past weekend.
We could have Milk and Moscone as senators.
You made me laugh!
Wouldn’t that have been wonderful ! As the dream slowly slips away…..
And the right wing has always benefited and capitalized on political assassinations.
Yeah if you want to kill progressive movement for the next half-century, by all means primary the sitting President.
I told you months ago that when you scare a politician, he’s going to run to the right. Well you scared Obama, and surprise! He ran to the right.
Primary him, and he’ll run even further to the right. And then the GOP can put up whatever psychopath they want. Either we get an Obama who’s running as a Reagan Democrat or we get kook-flavor of the month – win-win for them.
Those are the choices. Does it suck? Yeah. But if you expect someone with the progressive acumen you want to walk in the door and be electable, you’re in for a long damn wait.
Yeah, Romney never made it out of the Republican primaries, yet we’ve got Romneycare, Bush supposedly left the White House but we’ve got someone in there who is embracing and extending Bush to the point of becoming the Assassinator-In-Chief, etc
It’s been slowly coming on. Recommendations are up to 34 and not a whisper yet about “process” or “compromise” or “letting the perfect be the enemy of the good”. Not even any allusions to eleventy seven dimensional chess.
and Battered Wife Syndrome would also seem to fit.
Probably because it’s always a right winger doing them. All right. All white. All male. Well, except for Sirhan Sirhan and I’m convinced he was hired by white Republicans. He was a “Christian” after all.
No. I want someone out there talking about the things we stand for and what America used to stand for. I want Obama to see crowds of people listening to the truth.
Rahm, is that you?
So, it is our fault that Obama is an asshole?
I don’t care to argue that point now but you have to agree that when you piss on someone long enough they just might get pissed off as well. We need a leader.
If he runs any further to the right, he’s going to have a comb over, a tiny mustache and a swastika on his armband.
Time to invoke the 25th Amendment?
You made me laugh with that one, Margaret.
“Yeah if you want to kill progressive movement for the next half-century, by all means primary the sitting President.”
Since when was the Heritage Foundation, indefinite detentions and assassinations part of the progressive movement?…Are you basing that on the letter next to Obama’s name or because you think the Heritage Foundation is a beacon of progessivism?
“I told you months ago that when you scare a politician, he’s going to run to the right. Well you scared Obama, and surprise! He ran to the right.”
So Obama become the Assassinator-In-Chief because he got scare of hippies? Do you think authorizing assassinations is the proper way to deal with peeing in ones pants?
I wish I could laugh about it. It depresses me.
Like the extension of income tax cuts to $250k, this would affect everyone with earned income, not just those making less than $106k. And that ‘typical family’ is presumably an average, so ‘most’ would see far less, while a high-earning single would take back over a third more than that, and those with two high-wage earners will clear over $4200. Progressive win!
Fear and insecurity are classic symptoms of a conservative. Obama calls himself a Democrat because he was bright enough to know that the Republican Party would never have him. Just like Harold Ford.
You CANNOT declare this a win by any stretch of logic, not with 2 million unemployed who will get exactly zero and that number will grow to over 4 million in the next two years. When you fix that, we’ll talk,
Yay for crumbs! Give me a break. I’m nauseous enough already.
Everyone remember the wisdom we’ve seen here tonight. Spots1701 reminded us that he warned us long ago in a far away land that , “if you scare a politician he moves to the right and we duly scared Obama.” I can’t stop laughing!
I keep hearing that, but no one offers any constructive idea as to who that leader is. I keep hearing names of people who got their asses kicked up one side and down the other in the last cycle (Feingold, Grayson), or people who aren’t electable on a national level (Kucinich).
In case you haven’t been paying attention, the Republicans are already lining up for 2012. It’s a little late to be sifting the weeds looking for someone to step up to the plate.
See Margaret @ 67 for a good image.
Obama won’t feel safe and secure until he’s included the “dirty fucking hippies” on his ever growing hit list. He’s a jumpy fellow isn’t he?
It may be we will not elect a dem next time around. Maybe we will elect some friends to congress and fuck over whatever the dems and thugs try to do? I am serious about that. I also do not know who we should get but O is not one of them.
I’m basing it on the fact that if you primary Obama, and he loses, it won’t be framed as “a weak President being beaten for not listening to his base”. It will be framed as “progressives want perfection, and so we can never make them happy”.
The Democratic Party will buy it, and the myth will supersede the reality.
GOOD JOKE! NICE TRY!!! Laughing out loud
Any real democrat can challenge Obama
1st Obama knows that few Black candidates win statewide re-election campaigns, so his chances of winning a nationwide re-election are bleak. (this is just facts)
2nd Obama has problems with his black base, Cornel West has attacked Obama on his left flank. Any candidate running against Obama can say Obama is more Clarence Thomas, Alan Keyes he is no Martin Luther King.
3rd Obama is a Neo-Liberal, that has all but pissed off his liberal base.(no black candidate can win a re-election bid without the help of hard core liberals)
When you look at the IOWA caucus, remember Hillary the Neo-Liberal came in 3rd behind Obama and Edwards. the IOWA caucus is more liberal, and any candidate attacking Obama from the left will probably win.
Obama, Axelrod, Gibbs, Jarett, Plouffe, all know Obama has no chance of winning re-election, chances are he would lose to Palin, because without hard core liberals supporting Obama he has no SHOT!!! this is all common knowledge in DC and out side of DC. (go find black senator in DC, I forgot there none)
the chance of a real liberal winning in 2012 is great! (because all any democrat has to due is make it issue campaign, they could build their campaign around stuff like the public option, ending wars, fixing mainstreet, etc. stuff all americans want)
A lot of us ignored the Cornel West attack on Obama, my african american friends say if you put Obama closer to Alan Keys, a real democrat would still receive a large number of black votes in the general. (Obama may be to right of Alan Keys)
Axelrod, Gibbs, and Plouffe made a huge mistake treating Obama like Clinton. Clinton could get a couple of GOP votes, Obama will get no GOP votes, and plus the more Obama ignores his liberal base, the easier he becomes to primary.
A black candidate with no liberal base, has no chance of winning! SORRY
You are very funny, you made me laugh
and that is bad because??
So what? I don’t know if you’ve been keeping up with current events but we HAVE a Republican in the White House in everything but name. What are you worried about if the Republicans take the presidency? Endless wars? Illegal renditions? Official assassination? Illegal wiretapping? People held forever without charges? Warrantless searches and seizures? Lobbyists writing legislation? Huge giveaways to the rich? Unlimited corporate money influencing everything? Environmental disasters without consequences for the criminals that caused it? What are you afraid of?
I’m more disgusted with the Democrats than I am afraid of Republicans.
Great linkage, Peg…! Btw, remember Harold was the ‘star pupil’ of Clinton’s DLC…! ;-)
That is funny but it probably wouldn’t be a swastika but more than likely a cross intertwined with a Star of David. Maybe after the “surgical” strike on Iran, or North Korea.
Again, who’ve you got? Who’s this “super-progressive candidate” that you keep throwing up?
Answer that question first before telling me how it’s going to happen.
SPOTTS how much money are going to donate to candidate with 80% chance of losing?
no president wins re-election with 9% un-employment
Maybe Obama should have dump Bernake, Summers, Geithner, they sorta done him in.
I think people are lining up for 2012, just watch and see
A lot of people want to be president of the USA
like they say you give a NEO-LIBERAL a lot of rope, he will find a way to hang himself.
Jessie Jackson has also been very critical of Obama. Listening to Rev. Jackson’s weekly radio program “Keep Hope Alive” the black middle and working class is also disillusioned with Mr. Bipartisan.
Are you f*cking serious…? I’d be happy with any baby half-steps to the Left…! Have you seen any ‘drift’ to the Left…? Hmmm…?
How many primary challenges have ended with the challenger winning the general election?
How many have ended in a rout for the other side?
See Margaret at 84.
I’m not saying that’s the reality. I’m saying that’s the myth that will be generated, and the myth that will be sold.
Yeah, they could be brothers.
Spott, simple question do you think OBAMA is going to win a national election running as ALAN KEYS? yes or no
Ding! We have a winner er, uh, but it ain’t anybody who makes less than a zillion a year.
Spott is your last name AXELROD?
or are you MR FIRED UP! READY TO GO!!!?
If you want help OBAMA, tell him to start packing now! he is done
That’s not a simple question. That’s a trap question, and frankly an insulting one at that.
So fucking what? How will things be different than they are right now? And if we try we MIGHT succeed but if we don’t try, we won’t have ANY chance, however small and things will go right along as they are.
Oh for God’s sake…
How will things be different than thy are right now?
Considering that every potential Republican is running on a campaign that is somewhere between “sociopathic” and “psychotic”, I’d say extremely different.
Who’s payroll are you on Spots? There are plenty of viable candidates that could challenge Obama. Dude, he’s lost the base and he’s lost the independents by his lack of forceful leadership and his unwillingness to fight for the working and middle class. He’s a marshmallow and the public sees it. Here’s a little something to paint you a picture.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.16bit.com/toypics/ghostbusters/marshmallow/front.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.16bit.com/realghost-marsh.asp&h=323&w=337&sz=70&tbnid=a3_TnyZ43SZCvM:&tbnh=114&tbnw=119&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMarshmallow%2Bman%2BGhostbusters&zoom=1&q=Marshmallow+man+Ghostbusters&hl=en&usg=__mfl0WuaqgNRnXkGpRvaD-QwaDWU=&sa=X&ei=ULD9TIKrOI7anAersZHICg&ved=0CCIQ9QEwBA
Without necessarily endorsing your equation of the 2010 midterm Congressional election results with the battle of Oran, I would like to offer some historical (and rhetorical) context by quoting from Churchill’s The Second World War, Volume 2, “Their Finest Hour”:
You have to grasp the idea that Obama has already thrown us under the bus. He capitulates on every issue important to most people here. He just did it again on 99 week unemployment, which, for me, is like WW 3. Once you get that idea, then the next one of either letting him lose or finding someone else is rather easy. But we will keep going and trying to get our people elected where we can.
Make no mistake there will be NOTHING left of the dem party. Anyone who thinks they are going to survive obummer just isn’t paying attention. He screwed the pooch one too many times. Far too many people are done. If you think the last election was a blood bath wait for the next one.
Laughing?
Can Obama win running as OBAMA? yes or no
he may have a problem with the issues below;
1st Obama endorses the Bush agenda of spying on and killing americans
2nd Obama attacks Unions (the F! the UAW moment screams republican)
3rd Obama double downs on Bush Wars, (now they are Obama wars)
4th Obama attacks Teacher Unions (teacher unions now hate OBAMA)
5th Obama does not attack the Banks? he bails them out? (sorta like what the GOP does)
6th Obama passes the Bob Dole Health Care Bill (Bob Dole is a republican)
7th Obama kills the Public Option
8Th Obama kills Drug Importation
9Th Obama APPOINTS an insurance executive to manage his health care Bill
10th Obama does not APPOINT Dawn Johnsen
11th Obama hand picks the cat food commission to destroy Social Security
12th Obama supports Blanche Lincoln, a candidate who hates Unions, and has no chance of winning
13 Guantanomo still open for business
14.Patriot Act renewed
15. renditions continue
16. Bernanke reappointed
17. Americans targeted for assassination
18 Obama is all for sending more USA jobs off shore
19 Obama is for tax cuts for the RICH!
20. Obama and the TSA porno Scandal
21 Obama freezes federal wages for 2 years
Obama is going to win a general election without the liberal base?
Please don’t go to VEGAS,
watertiger is upstairs!
Late Night: Dumb, All Ye Faithful
My guess was Emmanuel.
good one
Not just people “here.” 70% of the people were in favor of ending the tax cuts for the rich. 70%!!!
Yeah. Why, they might pass a law requiring that we all buy a shitty product from private companies or that disallow any negotiation of price. They might slaughter civilians in the name of an undeclared war. They might feel you up at the airport or read your email. They might pour unlimited money into laws designed to benefit a very few at the expense of everybody else. They might put a commission together, loaded with people who want to gut social security and medicare so they can cut the top tax rates even more. They might defend the second class citizenship of a whole segment of the population. You’re right! What a fucking nightmare!
I am one of the 70% but I would give it up for decent unemployment and not that obnoxious estate tax. But the tax cuts must be temporary.
Thank you for treating me like a FUCKING MORON. I’m sure if I did that to you, you’d be screaming bloody murder.
Remind me again, are you trying to convince me or beat me into submission?
Margaret, you may be wasting your breath. Some people think the things you listed are only bad when the other tribe does them.
Word on the street has Obama in consultation with the Republicans to reclassify working and middle class Americans as 3/5′s of a person. No doubt they’ll come to a bipartisan agreement.
What you are feeling here is a real sense of abandonment by the guy who was supposed to right the wrongs of Bush, you know give us some social justice. Hasn’t happened.
Trying to convince you would be tantamount to trying to convince a follower of Jim Jones to leave the compound.
I’m sorry that you feel like I’m treating you like a moron. It wasn’t intentional. On the other hand, I still haven’t gotten an answer from you to a very legitimate question so maybe my frustration at your refusal has been peeking through. One more time then: What possible difference can it make if a Republican gets elected president as opposed to the re-election Obama? Educate me.
you do know OBAMA treat the intelligent left like MORONS
you do know that OBAMA held un-employment benefits hostage?
see the kabuki game was suppose to go like this
obama saves un-employment and the rich get there tax cuts
well the kabuki is falling a part
because how many democrats are going to tell fed workers in their districts they must sacrifice for the ultra rich? none
why is OBAMA doing a NAFTA deal in the middle of a DEPRESSION?
not smart
Yep. I call them partisans. It’s all about the (R) vs the (D) with them.
Tell you what, you stop trying to act like you know what’s going on in my head and I won’t try to guess what’s going on in yours.
‘ll ask again, is the progressive community intending to fight this or give up out the gate because it will be hard?
Additionally, I keep hearing primary, primary, primary. Who exactly does the progressive community intend to put up against him?
OK then, take a breath.
How about rolling back the two things in Health Care Reform that actually help (ending pre-existing condition exclusions, and raising the maximum age for children to stay on the plan)?
You don’t think a President Gingrich or a President Romney wouldn’t take a big ol’ whack at that?
But there’s no limit to what the insurance companies can charge.
un fucking believable
despite having been warned here at the lake this was how it was going to play out. I still just want to puke.
You mean those things that the law mandates but doesn’t enforce? You mean those things that the insurance companies have already found and exploited loopholes you can drive the Enterprise through? You mean those little items that the law throws money at corrupt and industry loaded state insurance boards to oversee?
Those ones? Still not seeing a difference but thanks for the answer.
Considering that without them I’d be dead right about now, yes.
I’m glad it worked out for you. Seriously. But it’s not working for everybody. I invite you to read this.
Margaret I expected more out of SPOTT1701
Spott must not be a member of the intelligent left
WOW? i did not see SPOTT going there. not good
Bob Dole is a republican, Obama copied his health care bill.
I think the answer is the thugs will do next to nothing on the HCR b/c their friends, the insurance industry, are about to get 30 million or so new customers and they can charge any fucking thing they want. They don’t want changes to their captive base. They can find all the loopholes they need all by themselves, thank you. No competition. More profits, oh goody.
It will have to be initiated by the civil rights community, what’s left of the labor movement, the peace/religious community, the Hispanic community or perhaps some very wealthy progressives. I don’t think FDL alone can initiate the “process” but FDL can provide an historical and political framework on the necessity of a primary challenge i.e. save the working and middle class, save a demoralized Democratic Party, restore accountability and the rule of law, etc. etc. etc.. There are candidates out there, they just may not have the name recognition today of a Simon Cowell but that can change in a flash.
WOW
you must be very ANTI WAR SPOTT1701
you really must hate the OBAMA wars
You know, talking about me like I can’t read what you’re saying is a really rude thing to do.
We’d undoubtedly be better off since the Dems would be putting up more of a fight against a Repub.
Not going to read my link, eh? Well I can’t say I’m surprised. It;s enough to take anybody out of their comfort zone.
I did. I’m sorry that things didn’t work out as well for you.
But that’s where we have a fundamental disconnect on the issue – it worked for me, it didn’t work for you. But by the same token, would a Republican administration treated you any better? Any worse?
I can certainly answer that one.
Stay cool. Don’t take their taunts personally. You are doing fine.
SPOTTS1701
now everyone is rude? and you think OBAMA is a great president? most of the USA knows OBAMA hates the middle class of the USA.
If you want to help Obama, come up with better arguements
Tell Obama to think things thru, don’t talk about cutting social security, freezing fed wages, etc. one week and the next week give tax cuts to the ULTRA rich.
don’t be like David Axelrod, keep Obama from doing things that Alan Keys would do and a heart beat.
Remember OBAMA is a cold blooded, heartless, elite TOOL, I mean OBAMA went full steam ahead passing a health care bill 80% of his party members hated, and SAID SO WHAT I LIKE IT! it makes health insuranc companies rich
when you commit to helping OBAMA, you must be cold and heartless
Bush said it best, I am president of the rich, and richer so be it
No I don’t think everyone is rude. Just you.
Oh? Can you? Let’s see, I’m thinking I’d get the same treatment considering I got zero help from the current administration. The world isn’t black and white, left vs right, right vs wrong. It doesn’t work like that. It’s never either or. That’s a very simplistic concept.
Yes, I am aware of that. And the sneering condescension isn’t a selling point.
Spotts, your initial post was condescending and sneering in itself.
Again, I’m very sorry if I’m coming off that way but seriously, your coming off as a reflexive apologist in my opinion and I’ve never had a lot of use for such. I’ll leave you be so as not to disturb your bubble further.
Spotts says the following
“I told you months ago that when you scare a politician, he’s going to run to the right. Well you scared Obama, and surprise! He ran to the right.”
are you on TBS? because this is very funny! :)
Spotts so un-like FDR, Obama ran to pass the Bob Dole Health Care Bill, because we scared him. WOW Bill Mayher called him a wuzzy?
maybe Obama has always been a republican? this is what me thinks
I’m not trying to be reflexive apologist. I just look at the field and see what we have to work with. Given the mindset of the other side, I don’t want them within a light-year of the levers of power.
Overriding principle I’ve had since my last ex-girlfriend – don’t let crazy do anything to give them control over you. It will never end well.
And so how is Obama saying that he can assassinate people of his choosing without judicial review not sociopathic or psychopathic?
I’m not trying to defend him. I’m saying the other side is infinitely worse than he could ever be. As in The Dead Zone worse.
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t see how it makes any difference if there is a Republican in the White House. It used to but it doesn’t anymore. I stopped voting for any Republicans in 1992. Now I’m done with Democrats. That means I have to look to alternatives.
Fair enough – I will respect your opinion on the matter.
Then we can end peacefully. I’m glad. I apologize for any errant rudeness. It wasn’t my intention to be condescending. I hate that too.
Precisely the reason to oppose the “framework.” If Obama wasn’t already, he’s now on the Republicans leash.
What’s infinitely worse than assassination by decree?
But if we make no change, we doom ourselves to endless half measures and even some level of evil like never ending wars, rendition etc. So the “lesser of two evils” concept ultimately fails. For a short term it may work. For me unemployment ended my tolerance for this strategy. But you are proposing we wait for a brighter day, perhaps in 2016. No way, Spotts.
Yeah, it’s already “infinitely worse” in my opinion. I’m not saying it can’t get worse but I am saying that Democratic doesn’t = good.
Then we are at an impasse, I’m afraid.
Of course they will. Most people vote for their party without thinking about it. It’s like cheering for your favorite team. When 2012 comes around, some Democrats will refuse to support President Obama on principle but the vast majority will rationalize him as the lesser of two evils.
Say what you want about the Tea Party but where the rubber met the road, they supported their candidates over the Republican establishment – even to the point of losing two Senate seats. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but the smart money says the Progressive Left won’t be willing to take that step.
Yes, I think so.
I apologize as well. I know that when emotions run high I tend to forget my manners.
Accepted. :)
Wasn’t it Obama himself that challenged us to hold him accountable and make him do the things we want? Now that is considered scaring him and used as an excuse for him to move further to the right? and its our fault? Give me a break.
Edit: obviously that reply was not meant forspanishinquisition. I blame my phone and my fast fingers
Although I’m sure Obama and his friends on the right are somehow to blame for my reply fail. Give me a second
We have already lost in 2012. The winner will either be Obama (Bush lite) or a republican (Bush heavy)The reason we need to primary Obama is to prepare for the important 2016 election. After 16 years of Bush policy we will need a change because other countries are pulling ahead of us already. It will be easier to hold a republican accountable than make excuses for eight Obama years.
Just in the last few weeks Obama
-outsourced American jobs with visits to Korea and India and NAFTA like agreements
-sent only 3 very junior people to the Cancun Climate Conference for one day each. I guess he could not spare an intern to take notes.
-gave unemployed Americans a year more of help while giving rich people huge tax breaks for 2 years. No need to worry about that until the next administration!
No, I do not think a republican administration will be substantially worse than an Obama administration. Primary to prepare for 2016!
It’s not just the firepups and the orange beasts who are planning for a primary challenge. A black academic at Stanford who is an old-timer from the 60s anti-war & civil rights movements recounted his help to run Sen. Eugene McCarthy against the incumbent President LBJ in the NH primary in 1968 and said it’s time to do the same to Obama:
~~~ModNote: Please use a short quote from copyrighted material, and provide a link. Thanks for helping FDL remain within fair use guidelines.~~~
This thread went all to hell a while ago, so nobody should mind if I plopped a big ol’ giant horrible block quote at the end of it. Would they?
I won’t be offended if Mods. think it needs to be clipped back to the HuffPo link.
~~~Appreciate it.~~~
Won’t it just be hilarious if when this comes up for a vote in Congress…that is is not good enough for the Republicans and even more of the farm has to be given away?
I know I will be laughing….
Health insurance that leaves firmly in-place the 64 year-old protection of the health insurance industry from the Sherman anti-trust and Americana ala-Republican sense of “free enterprise”, or really lack thereof. All the while giving them a windfall of 20 year olds who have no medical issues to cut their teeth on. And he really wants to run on a “no public option health-care bill that he back-doored while lying to the American people, especially his base. One would hope even a 90 IQ Busher could see beyond that one.
Or maybe he could run on breaking up the “too big to fail” corporate businesses that pay no taxes. Nah, guess he didn’t do that either.
I know, he could run on the Fed’s protection of the banks against the people they are criminally screwing as they throw them out of their homes illegally. Nah!
Got it: the Lilly Ledbetter Act!
Actually he said he “represent(ed) the haves and the have more’s.” Which is whom all Republicans represent. No news there.
He forced Republicans to cut taxes on the inheritance tax, cut taxes on the AMT, cut taxes on capital gains and dividends, cut taxes on large multinational corporations, cut taxes on the payroll tax and then forced the Republicans to agree to wave the Democrats own PAYGO rules.
He really made those Republicans pay!
The advanced EITC is gone–it was too much subject to abuse. I think they are just expanding the regular EITC.
The American Opportunity Tax Credit used to be called the Hope Scholarship, but it got beefed up and renamed in the Stimulus.
What gets me is that Obama has promised to slice and dice the have nots just to prove that the rich don’t deserve tax-cuts. He’s already doing that to almost everyone from SS recipients to those Jan Brewer has tossed off Medicaid (98 if them), who need life-saving transplants that the privates won’t touch. Now that is really a death panel in a state that has executed a total of 22 people since 1976 and exonerated 6 who were already on death row. Brewer just won’t revisit her cut decision for people who have done nothing but be ill to save some money based on false information (aka lying) by the health insurance companies. I am assuming she will find the money to execute the remaining 126 in her state if she can find the one drug that she needs. In her case she is trying to attempt the execution of the same man twice, since they botched the first one. I am sure the 98 who she sentenced to die without a trial will die unless someone gives to the transplant fund for them.
The cool part of this sell out to the Republican party is we get to do this again two years from now but by then a Republican will be President and perhaps Americans will finally grow up and stop stealing from their neighbors and grandkids. Nah!
You have to laugh (because if you don’t, you’ll cry) at how the extensions of the Bush tax cuts are extended another 2 years, just in time to expire at the end of a re-election campaign in 2012. Apparently, Obama thinks people are going to believe him when he campaigns on ending them for a second time. Maybe his 11-dimensional chess strategy for convincing them is to pinky-swear this time.
It’s so sweet that he’s open to considering all the “hard decisions” about how to reduce the deficit, because he sure as hell won’t make the easy ones.
The signs were there that he had a conservative streak a mile wide and high. Those of us who watched him during the primaries have beat that particular horse to death. The question remains how do we move forward?
I pray you are wrong. Our country already appears to be standing on the precipice. Now is not the time for our side to cower and complain about how hard it will be to keep us from freefalling off the cliff.
Well, maybe 10% are disillusioned. The other 90% continue to give him good ratings in job approval polls.
Note- AHIP VOLUNTARILY gave up preex denials in MARCH of 08 folks. Obama didnt WIN that as a concession.
sheesh.
I dont understand why folks dont see Hillary’s HOLC was the MOST PROGRESSIVE idea proposed by HRC or Obama.
If housing had been meaningfiully addressed a la HOLC, the economy would be in recovery now, worldwide.
Obama works for the TBTF