Stephanie Cutter put out the official response for the White House on today’s striking down of the individual mandate by a federal district court judge in Virginia. Cutter makes the point that two other judges who considered the law on the merits reached different conclusions about the mandate, that 12 others have thrown out the challenges entirely, and that the Administration feels confident that the law is constitutional “under the Commerce Clause, the Necessary and Proper Clause, and the General Welfare Clause.”
That may well be the case, and further rulings will decide the question. But I’m interested in what Cutter says at the end, which really gives an insight into the White House’s thinking on this:
The Affordable Care Act also bans insurance companies from discriminating against people with preexisting conditions. However, unless every American is required to have insurance, it would be cost prohibitive to cover people with preexisting conditions. Here’s why: If insurance companies can no longer deny coverage to anyone who applies for insurance – especially those who have health problems and are potentially more expensive to cover – then there is nothing stopping someone from waiting until they’re sick or injured to apply for coverage since insurance companies can’t say no. That would lead to double digit premiums increases – up to 20% – for everyone with insurance, and would significantly increase the cost health care spending nationwide. We don’t let people wait until after they’ve been in a car accident to apply for auto insurance and get reimbursed, and we don’t want to do that with healthcare. If we’re going to outlaw discrimination based on pre-existing conditions, the only way to keep people from gaming the system and raising costs on everyone else is to ensure that everyone takes responsibility for their own health insurance.
As Jon Walker points out today, several states have guaranteed issue clauses that mandate insurance companies to take all comers, without a companion individual mandate. While I don’t think you can say that any area of the US health care system is working smoothly, this has generally not led to dramatically worse outcomes for those states. Somehow, insurers deal with guaranteed issue, and provide health insurance that customers manage to pay.
Walker also notes that there are multiple other ways to design a universal system without an individual mandate, which would also insure that nobody gets left behind from coverage because they have a chronic illness or malady. He names a couple in his post. There are other ideas, like what Paul Starr proposed last year, giving people a right to opt out of the mandate and subsequently forego a potential benefit, like eligibility for future exchange subsidies for a period of time. While I find this punishment a bit excessive, the point is there are several other ways to accomplish basically the same universal or near-universal system.
But the White House appears locked into this idea that you cannot ban pre-existing condition exclusion without a mandate. That’s AHIP’s view of the situation. It’s certainly not the legal view of the matter; Judge Hudson had the ability to strike down guaranteed issue or anything else in his ruling because of the lack of a severability clause. But he did not, saying only that Section 1501 – the individual mandate – would be ruled unconstitutional. Hudson does not think that the mandate has any other material bearing on the functioning of the law. As Walker writes:
Because the cost of insurance in the current law is so much greater than the cost of the mandate, making the decision to not buy insurance is still viable–the price of the penalty would still not make buying insurance a smart economic decision. Therefore, the mandate was unlikely to convince many additional people to buy insurance, and likely wouldn’t have that much impact on the number of people in the risk pools.
There is no reason the health care bill can’t stand as-is without the mandate. The fact that insurance companies have already been complying with things like guaranteed issue at the state level for years without a mandate means the law can stay in effect without one.
Even if you believe that some patch or change to the system would have to come if the mandate gets struck down, you’d have to agree that Cutter’s rigid stance here doesn’t even allow for that possibility.



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Priceless, the republicans don’t even need to say anything, because the democrats have now adopted the “persoanl responsiblity” card. There needs to be pool at FDL, for the first time the Obama administration uses the “pull yourself up with your bootstraps” line.
David, my only question is where do the republicans go from here? How do you go to the right of “everybody for themselves”? I am completely confused on who stands for what.
Where I think the mandate is going to get in trouble is with the religious exemption. How can a secular society say that certain religious groups don’t have to obey the mandate?
I think she is giving the case for why “for profit” insurance companies cannot be part of the mix if the goal is universal coverage. The concern here is really still for preserving the profits of the privates – a completely misplaced concern.
President Obama once said, for what that’s worth, that healthcare is a right and not a privilege. Once you make that leap, as have other countries, you flat out have to remove the profit.
Strange that they don’t seem to get that possibly they can keep the mandate if they provide a non-private non-profit alternative. But that would upset the President’s side deals with the various industries. Fine! Screw the side deals. Re-introduce re-importation and drug negotiation and the public option and you save more than the inconsequential amounts the industries were offering as essentially reverse hush money anyway.
They certainly made a complete hash of reform didn’t they? They just couldn’t bring themselves to do the right thing and just pass a good bill for the American people in the first place.
The Democrats have screwed this up so thoroughly that I wouldn’t be surprised to see a complete sweep in the next elections of Presidency, Congress and Senate to Republicans and a complete dismantlement of all social safety nets (which process Obama is kindly firing up ahead of time for them) and a return to the Dickensian 2 tier economy that is the stuff of Republican wet dreams.
Protect the due process rights of corporations? No clearer example of how Americans are fucked when the tax code is utilized to protect corporations who have a clear legal advantage, like slave-owners. Throw the constitution away to leverage servitude of people to corporations because government cannot control the behavior of for profit or tax exempt health insurers who enjoy anti trust exemptions? Sure. The judge is correct. Using the ICC Clause to compel people to purchase something they already cannot afford is retarded and a misapplication of law. In fact it appears as if the Health Insurers have taken a page right out of the segregationist handbook enabled by politicians……………
A real solution….. remember that .80 cents wasted on every American dollar spent on gasoline? Lets protect the corporate slave-owners. How does one control healthcare costs, when escalating energy costs undermine liberty!!!!! How much money did America spend on gas today? How much of that economic value is wasted? You probably don’t want to know!
Walker is still conspicuously, and hilariously, unable to bring himself to mention the embargoed phrase “Single Payer” which comes readily to mind if anyone is honestly contemplating “other ways to design a universal system.”
I hate the mandate, not for the premise of keeping gaming out of the system, but due to affordability. Especially those of us that have been unemployed. Yeah, I know they said it would be subsidized. I just think they haven’t gotten that planned out well yet. Besides, I’m waiting to see the exchanges and what is offered there.
And speaking of how this is government overreach such as the repugs say, Athena has a great post up as well. http://my.firedoglake.com/athena1/2010/12/13/lets-talk-about-marxism/#comment-107
There is a reason I called Obama’s plan the Obama Health Insurance Profit Protection Plan (OHIPPP). Because that’s what it is.
Ah, corporatists. And with Obama as their titular leader, the Dems now speak Corporatist. Which sounds remarkably like Republican talking points!
First, on health and now on tax legislation: Can’t tell them apart with a scorecard and their names and party labels
O HIPPP, HIPPP, Hooray.Not.
Cutter’s argument is actually strong one in favor of universal single payer health care. But she probably doesn’t know that. Everything she says argues against having insurance companies at all.
That’ll happen when the Social Security cuts are rammed through.
1) Will Elena Kagen have to recuse herself?
2) Can the Roberts part of the Court select which case it wishes to take its stand on?
3) Can they bring it up to SCOTUS while Elena’s recusal will make a tie give the victory to this conservative judge’s opinion?
What you said.
“the only way to keep people from gaming the system and raising costs on everyone else is to ensure that everyone takes responsibility for their own health insurance”
Not health “care’, but health insurance. Health care is a tangible, substantial good. Stopping a Hemmorahge or providing antimicrobial drugs are examples of health care. Health Insurance is a middle man racket. A bit capitalist money flipping and exploitation. I could provide health care to an injured someone lying on the side of the road, and it would help them. I could offer the same person 100.00 dollars worth of somone else’s health care and charge 150.00 dollars for the “service”, then pay the provider 50 bucks, and that would be more like health insurance. Obama and freinds are forcing us to buy the crappy financial service.If the govt wishes to force us to acess health care they should make VA benefits and providers available to all of us. But they dont, they are merely trying to force us, at gun point, to buy some shitty “financial product” from a private corporation. Buncha dickheads.
Good news guys!
Tweety, Keith and Rachel are all attacking the judge for being a conservative…
Not supporting him in striking down that insane mandate.
Obama bitches about how if he doesn’t get his way there will be 20% rate hikes….
There are!
Practically every year! 15% 30% whatever they can milk out of us!
Serious Buck Ofama, get your head out of AHIPs pants!
RachKeiChris: He’s a conservative so he’s automatically wrong! Now go buy that overpriced insurance veal pen!
Yes the conservative position is always wrong is USUALLY right. 99.99999% of the time they don’t know their asses from their elbows…but this time they got something right and now it’s up to the MSNBC heroes to shepherd the veal pen in for the insurance company slaughter.
“Ah, corporatists. And with Obama as their titular leader, the Dems now speak Corporatist. Which sounds remarkably like Republican talking points!”
Capitalist, the word is Capitalist.
Well let’s dot all the i’s and cross all the t’s and make it a requirement punishable by jail time that all citizens must buy health insurance with no guarantee or, uh, insurance that their health bills be paid. There. We must have it. Done.
that’s disappointing. Progressives want individual mandate? This is the number one part of the bill I just couldn’t not understand, as an American with freedoms.
I’d be happy without a Man Date.
If I don’t pay my mandatory health insurance premium, will they put a lien on my house and take it from me? And after they take my house and I still don’t pay it, will they put me in jail? Can I declare bankruptcy and get out from my debt? Or will I go to jail until I can pay it?
What a perfect way to say we tried and leave the courts holding the bag as the bad guy. Of course this means Obama has lost his greatest *cough* Triumph. Whats his next biggest Triumph Cash for Clunkers or the Bank Bailout?
Just what will he run on to rally the base? Right now his failure to save the Gulf states from the oil spill gave the Gulf States to the South we may lose Florida if oil keeps washing up on beaches and every Gulf state inbetween there and Texas.
If only there was some sort of option the government could offer to the public …
How are insurance stocks doing? Insurance companies went up after this was passed. If the Market thinks it won’t then their stocks go down. Insurance companies hand over the money they collect from us to financial companies to invest they went up after this deal was done.
Take away Finance Companies, Banks, investment companies related companies Hedgefunds and the companies they own plus insurance companies and you take out almost all the growth in the stock market recently.
If, when the market takes the idea seriously that Obama’s plan won’t become law then all these companies take a dive and the Obama recovery gets revealed as another Ponzi scheme re inflation plan that did not work.
Nah, but Keiths corporate handlers don’t want to get rid of the mandate.
He LOOOVES being the token liberal/populist.
I think the proper basis to attack the individual mandate is from the left, not the right. The IM is, in theory only, valid under the tenth amendment, the commerce clause, the necessary and proper clause, and the general welfare clause. However, as Judge Hudson pointed out in at least two places in his decision, the fact that the IM might be valid under one clause does not immunize it from vulnerability under another.
To me, the IM, as it exists in the Health Insurance Cartel Permanent Profit Protection Act, violates the DUE PROCESS clause of the Fifth Amendment. It does so because it throws the consumer into a lions’ den: The law provides for no effective cost controls, no abolition of the antitrust immunity for the cartel, no provision for drug reimportation, and most important, no public option to provide competition to the insurers, who skim off about 30% in overhead and obscene profits.
Since my argument is a liberal or progressive argument, it will be studiously ignored by the right wing and right-wing judges.
Remember that, if you want single payer, you will need to agree that the commerce clause, or the necessary and proper clause, or the general welfare clause provides congressional authority to establish SP through an individual mandate by federal legislation. Or are folks here arguing that SP should be available w/o an individual mandate? Maybe that would work, but I don’t know.
very creative and thought-provoking. Great post. Thanks!
Well, KO can’t really afford to give Bernie’s speech with GE examples…
bye-bye greatest achievement? Going down in flames today, I’d say. Let’s check on his approval rating next week. It, too, will be going down in flames.
ouch! And so true.
But if you are religion-y you are blessed with a loophole:
(excerpt from “Health bills allow some a religious exemption” by By Maura Reynolds for MSNBC.Com, Aug., 8, 2009)
Does “Membership have its rewards” or what?
NY is among the few guarantee states, and it has drastically more expensive insurance than other states.
A quick scan of the googles suggests that the post here proves what it tries to disprove: each of the states that have guaranted issue rules have the highest costs in the country.
Fail.
So how do I find the nearest Amish group and how do I convert?
What?
No court would find that your religious belief is sincere. It’s like those asshats that occasionally think it would be clever to start the Church of Weed. It’s not clever or interesting, and no judge is duped by it.
“It does so because it throws the consumer into a lions’ den: The law provides for no effective cost controls, no abolition of the antitrust immunity for the cartel, no provision for drug reimportation, and most important, no public option to provide competition to the insurers, who skim off about 30% in overhead and obscene profits.
Since my argument is a liberal or progressive argument, it will be studiously ignored by the right wing and right-wing judges.
Remember that, if you want single payer, you will need to agree that the commerce clause, or the necessary and proper clause, or the general welfare clause provides congressional authority to establish SP through an individual mandate by federal legislation. Or are folks here arguing that SP should be available w/o an individual mandate? Maybe that would work, but I don’t know.”
Actually the right-wing judge effectively said that you could have a mandate, just not a mandate to buy a product from a private company…in a sense we already have mandates for things like Medicare and Social Security and those are protected by this ruling, but if Obama and the Republicans got together for another one of their backroom deals and privatized Social Security, that could also remove the mandate…
What I want to know is what is so special about 1950?
For the rest of us:
http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/calif._judge_okd_seinfelds_festivus_as_legitimate_religion_ordered_special_/
Things have gotten a bit more modern than the public is lead to believe. Years ago, I observed a dapper couple repeatedly shopping the tony Borders in Hagerstown, MD. He would drive and they would pull up in a posh Delta 88 with Pennsylvania plates. If you are male and dress all in black, wear a black bowler and a black pager (I had no reason to believe he *didn’t* have a cell phone), you just might be in. Heck, most kids I know these days could qualify except they’re too poor to have the car. Will spikes, piercings, chains and black nail polish disqualify them? Of course the women walk around behind the men in a Western modified version of the burqa. Will women dressing up as the men be disqualified? Sh#t, so many loopholes, so few answers.
link
Except there are plenty of capitalists, usually smaller businesses, which don’t get the wonderful treatment the corporations can buy. Hence, imho, Obama is a corporatist and speaks Corporatist.
watertiger is upstairs!
Late Night: Bad Dog, America! Look What You’ve Done.
This would be a good time to review the difference between “insure” and “ensure”.
And to be blunt, the WH’s argument is a classic example of begging the question. “We must have the power to pass this legislation, because if we don’t, then the legislation won’t work.” Yeah, um, the government’s lack of creativity doesn’t give it more powers. If you think up a scheme for addressing the nation’s problems, but its implementation requires the expansion of governmental powers beyond Constitutional limits, then you have not, in fact, thought up a scheme for addressing the nation’s problems.
I guess that’s to exclude the “non-traditional” religious groups. For example, the Maetreum of Cybele (blog), a Pagan group in upstate New York were finally granted tax exempt status by the State of New York in 2007 but they are still having problems:
(link)
Pagan and non-Christian churches with non-profit tax exempt status is very recent thing for the most part. I do know of at least one +100 year old Buddhist temple still in operation (link: http://www.oregonbuddhisttemple.com/about/aboutus.html ).
While those who have pre existing conditions cannot be denied coverage, what is the cost result to the insured? Does the legislation limit the cost of such a policy? Is the sky the limit for such a premium? If there are few restrictions on the cost of such a policy, they mine as well go without which get’s us back to the mandate. Can someone enlighten me as to this issue?
The first 2 years of the Obama administration squandered its political capital to produce only a mandated protection racket designed to further enrich the medical establishment and pharmaceutical industry. It’s true that the proposed system can’t survive unless everyone buys insurance. Adverse risk selection doesn’t work for any insurance-based system because insurance is affordable only when the risk is spread among all risk levels. But the proposed system does nothing to prevent runaway costs and useless and wasteful treatment. So, to force everyone to participate in such a system is to legalize and legitimize thievery and oppression.
Or you could just replace the mandate with a public option. So that the people who buy in, whether it is last minute or not, are a part of a pool that already has guaranteed coverage.
Oh wait – yeah, I forgot, the only part of healthcare reform that had bipartisan populist support – the public option – is somehow converted into a radical extremist option in the Obama Reality Manufacturing plant.
I’m going to go out on a limb here, and someone enlighten me, too, if I’m wrong. The whole idea of the law is to require insurers to take all comers without any surcharge for any pre-existing conditions. The problem is that the insurers just pass on to all their other customers the extra costs of insuring people with conditions that are expensive to treat. So, you and I pay for the extra costs of the AIDS patient, or the cardiac patient, or the diabetic.
Since the new law has no effective mechanisms for controlling the premiums charged by the insurers, the premiums will just go through the roof, even worse than they are already. That’s why Obama wants the individual mandate – to force large numbers of people to pay for coverage and absorb the extra costs caused by insuring people with pre-existing conditions. If there’s no mandate, the argument goes, the healthy will drop their coverages or just remain uninsured, leaving the insurance companies with ever-smaller numbers of insured people – the people who are so sick that they cannot afford NOT to be covered.
Meanwhile, the insurers continue to get away with 30% margins for overhead, profit, and obscene CEO paychecks.
I should clarify that DHS is preparing new regulations under the health insurance law to require insurers to pay out 85% of their premiums as benefits – the so-called “medical loss ratio” which should really be renamed the “medical benefits ratio.”
However, critics here at FDL and elsewhere have long argued that the insurers are already gaming the system by reclassifying various types of overhead as “medical care” and thereby preserve their profits and overhead at somewhere near the 30% level.
So you don’t purchase your state mandated auto insurance, then?
They’re already duped by the religion itself, no doubt.
most important, no public option to provide competition to the insurers, who skim off about 30% in overhead and obscene profits.
Even with oversight like SEC & Anti-trust Mr. Madoff was able to pull of a massive ponzi scheme. Please note that here even the Anti-trust which covers every industry except Health care and Baseball is absent. Possibility of a scam is huge.
Besides that the concept of Individual Mandates for a private entity is abhorable since we do not have even have a right to say how it is to be run. No free market works that way. It will destroy the innovation in the country which is spurred by freedom of free choice. That is why totalitarian regimes will always fall sooner or later since they force people to act against their free will without freedom of choice and expression.
Apparently only California regulates auto insurance enough so that it is less of a barrier for the unemployed.
All the concepts which were talked during stump and bill passage in congress and senate were really reform pieces. They know what the reform really is. So do not think they do not know what reform really looks like. That was the bait part.
Switch part came during pre-conference days and wanted to push it through rapidly during favorite christmas season. Unfortunately Massachussetts voters showed that they already experienced it enough, hated it and thrown out a deep blue seat to a republican. Still they waited and passed it through despite the clear public verdict. At FDL we knew pre-conference version was a bill written by a Wells Point Former VP and so we can be really sure it will not have none of the reform pieces and here we are, without any reform but mandates.
Cannot afford auto insurance, will take a bike for the errands or walk for the errands or take bus for the errands. it is still my FREE choice and I am happy with it.
State governments have general police powers (to protect public health, safety and welfare), federal govt limited to Constitution’s “enumerated powers”. Your state can mandate auto insurance or for that matter, health insurance (see Mass.), Uncle Sam cannot.
The US Govt can mandate military service, jury duty, cooperation with Census, payment of taxes, and that’s about it. Social Security and Medicare are clean applications of the Taxing power. You pay FICA payroll taxes which are used to provided SS and Medicare benefits. Ultimately, that’s the only sort of mandate that will pass muster with the courts. I’d note that the Part B & D premiums (for healthcare providers and drug benefits respectively) are for voluntary Medicare coverage. Only Part A hospital coverage is an automatic benefit funded by FICA taxes.
Seniors can opt out of Part B coverage, though they’d be foolish to since 75% of the cost is funded by general revenue. I don’t think Congress has the power to impose mandatory Part B premiums with no opt outs because the premiums are a set fee based on cost and not a tax based on income. Likewise, a public option (can we just go ahead and call it “Medicare”, its like we’re waiting till the kid is a year old before we name it) must either be voluntary or funded by taxes. We already pay Medicare taxes that could be expanded to fund it, so there’s really no point reinventing the wheel here. Universal healthcare means universal Medicare or, in the end, it means nothing at all.
Those are not progressives . . .
They are paid mouthpieces for the orgs who hired them that sell advertising to corporations that want us to buy their shit.
Like the Limbaughs, Becks, Morning Joe’s . . . The Three are but a kabuki of smoke and mirrors to give an impression of fair and balanced . . . they ain’t.
They are part of the system, and as such don’t really LEAD us to a better place or even reveal the truth (especially when it hurts their company or the company’s advertisers).
I thought you knew this, about our media. It’s all corporate owned and operated.
N not really fair OR balanced, any more than Faux Nooze. It all exists to promote the propaganda and kabuki.
Nicely crafted . . . well done.
I guess if you cannot outright own people as property, just impose liberty extracting premiums on life! Corporate Servitude! BTW how does an insurance model work when everyone dies and most get ill????? Insurance is predicated on the statistical probability that a particular “event” will or will not occur. Every dies………. This is fucking retarded to apply this model on an inevitability! Death!
Nice job, Mr Obama. Joke.
I don’t think Congress has the power to impose mandatory Part B premiums with no opt outs because the premiums are a set fee based on cost and not a tax based on income…
To be fair, Judge Hudson didn’t dive into this argument, we’ll see if it comes up in the Attorneys General lawsuit filed in Florida.
Lawrence O’Donnell just made a very interesting observation on Morning Joe. He said that the mandate is just an illusion in the first place – while there is a penalty/tax that is supposed to be policed/enforced by the IRS, there is a provision in the bill that specifically says that the IRS cannot pursue either civil or criminal avenues in order to collect it! He said that once Americans glommed onto that fact that everything would be screwed up financially anyway (my paraphrase)
As a side note, I just went back and checked on one thing that I thought was in the law and it is still there.
The state exchanges HAD to contain a multi-state NON-Profit plan:
So, if Lawrence O’Donnell is correct and the penalty/tax is basically a sham and if a non-profit has to be offered in each exchange, is there still an issue?
The Roberts Court will uphold the mandate. Does anybody doubt it?
Well done by the judge.No OP no mandate.