Just to mop this up, last night around midnight, the House of Representatives gave final passage to the tax cut bill. The final roll call vote on the “Airport and Airway Extension Act,” the name of the shell bill used as a vehicle to move the legislation, was 277-148. Democrats wound up supporting the bill 139-112, and Republicans supported 138-36.
Earlier in the evening, on the only amendment voted on, the House rejected a change to the estate tax which would have lowered the exemption from $5 million to $3.5 million, and increased the rate from 35% to 45%. The final tally was 194-233, with one member, Dan Lipinski, voting “Present.” Supposedly this hill to die on allowed House members upset with the bill to vent their frustration. 60 Democrats voted against the measure and it never really had a chance.
Because no changes were made from the Senate version of the bill, then, it goes to the President for his signature, which should happen presently. President Obama is scheduled to make a statement after signing this afternoon.
I’ve already talked about my concerns with the policy. John Boehner’s statement backs up those concerns by showing that this legislation, while passed and signed, really isn’t complete yet, in his mind:
“Stopping all the tax hikes is a good first step in our efforts to reduce the uncertainty family-owned small businesses are facing, but much more needs to be done, including cutting spending, permanently eliminating the threat of job-killing tax hikes, and repealing the job-killing health care law,” Boehner, House speaker-designate, said in a prepared statement.
This is one step along the road to the Norquistian dream of endless low taxes, starving the government of revenue, and the necessary reaction to that of cutting services. And as you’ll see in my next post, the Republicans will get a chance at that much earlier than expected.
On the politics of the deal, John Conyers effectively articulated the frustrations that a good portion of the liberal base is going to have with this bill.
Last week, I stated that this tax compromise was a fight for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party. Democrats have always stood for the workers, the disenfranchised, and those who are denied the opportunity to compete for the blessings of the American Dream because of their race, creed, religion, or class. I fear that passage of this bill tonight will tarnish this proud legacy of our party and cause the 98 percent of Americans without estates or astronomical personal wealth to question which party will fight for them. If this bill passes, each and every member of this body should look themselves in the mirror and consider what we have lost in the name of compromise. I encourage my colleagues to reject this flawed bill.”
You’re finally starting to see this play out in the President’s approval ratings. Caving on tax cuts is not just one more disappointment. The fundamental story that Democrats have told over the past decade was that the Iraq war was wrong, and that the Bush tax cuts hurt the economy. President Obama famously called tax cuts “the Holy Grail” for Republicans in a press conference a couple weeks ago, but he discounted how important this issue is to the people who voted for him. They may forgive, but it’s not likely to be something that they forget.




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The inclusion of the payroll tax holiday is being spun as a concession by Republicans. It is not. It is a concession to Republicans. Moreover, it is convincing proof, as if there was any doubt given the creation and composition of the catfood commission, that Obama wants cuts in Social Security. And he will get his wish.
I’m so done with him. His campaign was a big a con job as you’ll ever see. How 79% of liberals still approve of his performance is bewildering.
Thank you for the education….for keeping us with all this stuff. When I heard Orrin Hatch doing a major rant about the Death tax issue, I knew we were ’round the bend. Can hardly wait to see what’s next…Thanks again.
The U.S. public has the memory of a gnat and that is what politicians can always bank on. Of course they need not worry about the corporate media reminding the public of political transgressions.
Very true!
I just do not know what the Democrats are supposed to stand for anymore.
Prediction: On Monday, Jan. 3, newspaper articles and TV news will
breathlessly report that some low-income workers have actually seen their paychecks shrink.
And the blame will rest entirely on the Democrats’ heads.
Fortunately, the Republicans will be around to clean up the mess with another round of tax cuts.
Politics in the U.S. is a team sport. Ideology and principles play only a minor role in political affiliation. No matter how lousy the home team the “fans” can’t help but “root, root, root for the home team.”
Class warfare.
Bye, bye Dems.
Good riddance!
“Stopping all the tax hikes is a good first step in our efforts to reduce the uncertainty family-owned small businesses are facing, but much more needs to be done, including cutting spending, permanently eliminating the threat of job-killing tax hikes, and repealing the job-killing health care law,”
This sick, sick, misguided, dimwitted, non-problem solver will be the SSpeaker of the House in the Congress. There is no god.
With all due respect it SHOULD rest largely on the Democrats. It was a Democratic President that encouraged the compromise that led to their cut pay and a Democratic Congress who still owns the majority that heralded it in.
They own it now. Whining doesn’t count as effective pushback in politics.
What a shame to think of those brave individuals that fought so hard during the early 1900′s to give the working people a fair chance. What a slap to their memory. To give it all back so easily is a crime that the democrats and Con-bama will have to live with. What a monumental cowardly betrayal.
Bidding farewell to the White Knight, Alice steps across the last brook and is automatically crowned a queen (the crown materialising abruptly on her head). She soon finds herself in the company of both the White and Red Queens who relentlessly confound Alice by using word play to thwart her attempts at logical discussion.
Yes, Dem Pres, Dem House, and Dem Senate, but people will still blame the Republicans. At least some Republicans voted for it.
Just like the Health Care Reform Bill that ZERO Republicans voted for is still being blamed on the Republicans.
The Republicans are responsible too. Neither party cares about the average American. I hope they BOTH rot in hell.
I don’t know of a time in my life when I’ve felt so much hatred and disgust for my country and my government. . So much greed. As long as I get mine fuck everyone else. disgusting.
It will be the working and middle class doing the rotting. The plutocrats will be celebrating on their yachts and DC. cocktail parties.
Always nice that millionaires get to decide tax rates for millionaires..
http://protestobama.org/
Did you read this thread at all before removing all doubt as to your lack of credibility?
I still love my country. The majority in this country didn’t want FISA, the health care insurance enrichment act, the bailouts and these tax cuts. I won’t completely blame my countrymen for this reason. I never thought I could embrace the Republican rhethoric that government IS the problem. However, Barack Obama and the Democrats and Republicans in Congress sure make a pretty good argument for that statement. Inept would be a misunderstatement. It’s unimaginable that THIS is the best we can do.
The deal, rightly or wrongly, is broadly popular across the political spectrum. This has been demonstrated by the ABC/Washington Post poll, the Pew Poll and the NBC/WSJ poll.
So, although this deal in economic terms seems to me to be inequitable in the distribution of benefits and inefficient as a stimulus, it may not be the political albatross most of you seem to think it is.
“This is one step along the road to the Norquistian dream of endless low taxes, starving the government of revenue, and the necessary reaction to that of cutting services.”
Yep. Obama gets his way of implementing some of the Catfood Commission’s recommendations. The de-funding of Social Security precedent is hugely dangerous to regular people, but not to President Millionaire, nor millionaire and billionaire Congresspeople.
What truly progressive President would defund Social Security??!!?? See him for the “New Democrat” Rat that he is. Trading away our already-paid-into retirement, for what?…. More death and destruction in Afghanistan….
On the bright side Peter King, incoming House Chair of Homeland Security, wants to start an investigation on the radicalization of U.S. Muslims.
Well it’s stopped me ever voting for a Democrat again. I’ll bet my savings that I’m not alone either. Every camel has his or her breaking point. ORAHMa and his “Democratic” Kabuki dancers just found mine.
I have little doubt that there is going to be a great deal of pain as a result of this bill. Undermining the middle class is a stupid decision on the part of the rich. There is only so much a society will take before it rises up and attacks inequities. It’s coming.
Disgusting
That’s the pablum being sold. It’s not what I’ve heard though.
Mhmm, yes. Rotten to the core on both sides. It’s bipartisan rot.
yeah, but we see it in their actions don’t we? What they value they fund. What they don’t value, they de-fund.
Their millionaire and billionaire money insulates them from the problems they have created which we face on a daily basis.
As angry as I am about this POS bill passing, I am equally angry about the polls that were conducted that showed the public favoring this bill. I hope someone investigates those polls because I don’t know one person – right or left – who felt this bill was a good idea, aside from extending unemployment. Yet the polls showed strong support. Were the polls completely fabricated or were the questions asked in such a way that yes meant no? I know a lot of people are saying “oh, the public doesn’t know anything about the bill” but that does not ring entirely true to me.
Yep. And gated communities in this country are mostly decorative in design, not utilitarian. They aren’t going to stop even a small mob.
That’s all oldgold has is pablum.
Unfortunately revolutions have historically occurred when the expectations of the people were on the rise, when they saw the possibility of a brighter future. In this case peoples expectations are that things are and will continue to get worse for a majority of the population. The frogs have been in the water too long.
The inequitable distribution of benefits is highlighted in the lack of unemployment benefits to the 99 ers and the terrible estate tax provisions. Those two make this bill a very bitter pill. I still can’t wrap my mind around it.
Understandable – and I refuse to vote Dem on a Federal level but might consider it at the local level.
I wonder how many American actually know what was in the bill. That sure wasn’t covered in any of the news media where I live. Allan is quite correct that many people won’t know that the poorest Americans had an increase in taxes until too late. Even in today’s summary of the bill, that wasn’t mentioned.
I wish (kind of like believing in Santa) that the House Democrats hadn’t made their emphasis on the estate tax and had made it on taxing the poorest Americans and the threat to Social Security.
Now, my worry is the debt ceiling limit. Unlike Democrats, Republicans won’t go against their base and their base it too stupid to know what will happen if the debt ceiling isn’t raised.
Polls are merely another instrument used by the plutocracy to manipulate public opinion.
We’ll see. i think it’s the domestic equivalent of AUMF. I don’t see what Democrats run on now, what they stand for, how they will propose to pay for anything.
Now that the rich have their tax cuts, when does the job boom start?
It’s clear enough the pukes (including their puppet Obama) have completely and irrevocably won, and the New Deal has finally lost. From here on it’s just watching the trucks haul away the scrap.
No it isn’t. The truth is there is no will whatsoever to resist amongst what?… I’d hazard at least 75% of the population of the US. The US is a lost cause. The majority have been permanently dumbed down and somehow persuaded to go along with the agenda of the plutocracy, directly against their own interests of course, and it appears nothing is ever going to change this.
You’ve already started seeing little acts of civil disobedience where people have parked themselves in foreclosed properties.
I assume your initial question was rhetorical. The media in the U.S. has become nothing more than a version of Izvestia and Pravda of the former Soviet Union. No news and no truth.
interesting thing david, my far right wingnut associate is incredibly united with me against this wealth redistribution being called a tax cut
everyone hates this bill, even the wing nuts
Not true but that is how you are helping to sell it.
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/12/13/poll-republicans-democrats-and-independents-oppose-social-security-payroll-tax-cut/
I disagree. Revolutions occur when people feel they have hit a wall and they don’t see things ever getting better under present conditions. Our forefathers didn’t want to fight Britian. It was a final alternative when they saw the crown would not budge.
Harsh. I read this part:
Sounds like blame those not in charge to me.
At least the UI got extended.
Each night on the local night, Washingtonians (the State not the district) have been introduced to what government pays for as our governor announces more and more cuts in services.
As painful as it is, unfortunately it has to happen. People just didn’t value the services provided, because they didn’t associate their taxes with those services. The next few months will be challenging for many, especially those hurt by Obama’s tax cut for the wealthy.
It was.
It would have been extended anyway. The only contention was how long.
Wake up Old Gold!
The Poll’s numbers are what count and not the SPINNERS.
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/12/13/poll-republicans-democrats-and-independents-oppose-social-security-payroll-tax-cut/
I don’t know (I have to say that lest someone claims voluntary forecasting.)
But, it sure looks like the bond rout began with the imminent passage
of massive long term new borrowings from China predominantly benefiting
the ultra wealthy, that to be financed mainly by the middle class, which
was so tapped out that the banking industry needed to make a trade off
unqualified borrowers in the first place.
This is a re-do but with annotations added.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-2-percent-solution-2010-12#comment-4d08fcc54bd7c8bb10120000
As Mr. Spock said to Capt. Kirk before Spock subjected himself
to lethal doses of radiation, after defeating Khan,
“Remember…”
http://www.businessinsider.com/sorry-obama-to-flatly-reject-bush-tax-cut-extension-2010-9
Long story made short (my take) from the following is the middle class will borrow from
China to benefit the ultra wealthy. The middle class will generally struggle more, borrow
more to send their kids to college, to recover from medical costs, etc. Federal finances
will teter more as a result. What will cheer up Cong. Boehner,
Plantations-R-Us?
Torsten Slok, Deutsche Bank Senior Economist, on CNBC 12/14/2010
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1695639798&play=1
If the purpose of QE was to force people into hard assets from
cash then it has stopped working with QE2, which has been lifting
financial assets…
(Slok continued…) but not hard
assets, particularly real estate, which is what the banking sector’s
viability depends on.
Unemployment went up to 9.8
Recovery not as strong as had been hoping.
EverNewEcoN: applyling this author’s own analysis
but not reflecting on this author’s
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/saville082509.html
view of the tax cuts for the
ultra wealthy, financed by borrowings from China: It seems generally
the Republicans are anti-Keynesian except when benefits are bestowed
on the ultra wealthy.
WHY LINKED: ANTI-KEYNESIAN’S OWN ARGUMENT WOULD SEEM TO
ARGUE AGAINST PARTICULARLY THIS TAX CUT FINANCED BY BORROWINGS
FROM CHINA BENEFITING PREDOMINANTLY THE ULTRA-WEALTHY, WHO
WILL NOT HAVE TO REINVEST IN THE U.S. ; HAS NOTHING TO DO, THUS,
WITH PRIVATE VS. GOVT APPLICATION OF RESOURCES FOR GREATEST
RETURN (IT CAN’T– IT’S BORROWED, THAT DEBT COVERED BY THE MIDDLE
CLASS)
(ALSO SEE:)
http://www.truth-out.org/the-great-tax-cut-debate-myths-and-facts65294
SAYS THESE CUTS FALSELY COMPARED WITH JFK TAX CUTS
What if the Fed were a Bank?
Bob Eisenbeis, David R. Kotok, Ritholtz.com, July 7, 2009
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/07/what-if-the-fed-were-a-bank/
http://sites.google.com/site/evernewecon/
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/HouseSessionPart239
00:42:51
3 min.
Moran, James “Jim” – U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia
THEY DON’T BEND OVER AND PICK IT UP AND DROP IT IN A TRASH CAN THEY KEEP KICKING IT. THAT’S WHAT WE’RE GOING TO DWOSME KNEW IN 2001 AND FWEE, WHEN WE WERE…
(links to video that’s the basis of the garbled
shorthand)
After all this play acting it will be impossible for the majority of us to ever believe in our government again.
How are we supposed to feel about being taxed to support our government and for our representation?
How are we supposed to feel about economic stench of our country that was SELF inflicted by people behind the scenes with no reprocussions?
How are we supposed to feel about working for MultNational Corporations that have stomped us into the ground after taking our tax dollars, labor, and consumer support? After they abandoned the country for the treasonous reasons of bolstering a communist society!
I could go on and it would be useless. I’m just mad as hell that there is so little for the American citizen that does not have ten zero’s after their annual income.
The ONLY part of this bill people liked were the UI benefits for the unemployed.
It’s already begun.
Read the history of the Russian, French and Chinese revolutions. Of course the “people” were repressed but there were alternatives by revolutionaries that pointed to a new direction. What alternative has been presented to the U.S. public. Fascism perhpas.
It’s get to know your neighbor time. Until we can recreate a government that is functional for the majority of us it’s the only alternative. It also helps to know who you will be organizing with.
But they used to do polls that concluded Americans didn’t mind if the government spied on them. Then, when Bush’s numbers were tanking, all of a sudden it turned out people DID mind. There’s so much in the wording of these polls and who gets polled, and how many people are polled. I mean, a Washington Post poll? A Wall Street Journal poll?
Most people may not want these bills to pass but majority continues to vote against their own interests over and over out of sheer laziness to seek the truth. And if people are so furious about these decisions being forced down our throats where is the action? there are put protests and riots all over Europe because of government actions. Here we boycott products and blog. which is important but nowhere near as affective and viral
Put in your order before the line gets too long.
Things will not change in the U.S. until the politicians fear the people. Up to this point they have little to fear and much to celebrate.
I’ve read. I guess we aren’t going to agree.
There are always alternatives. They won’t be easy or without risk. That’s why most balk. They want an easy alternative and a sure thing. History shows though that the timid and fearful get nothing, at least not in this life.
People are afraid. We haven’t hit our tipping point yet. We will.
Really? Was it voting against their own interest when they gave the Democrats both Houses of Congress with huge majorities and the White House? I know it’s always inviting to blame those stupid, low-info votes, but there is a lot more at play here than voting against ones interest, namely one Party is nominally for the majorities interest at best, and the other not at all.
Also, why riots in Europe? Partly because they have the infrastructure for riots, ie trade unions.
I would like to personally thank president Obama for ruining any faith and hope that I had for the good of the government. Build me up just to knock me down one last time.
The U.S. public has been conditioned over the last 30 years to prefer and accept a feudal alternative. The U.S. public has much in common with the serfs of the Middle Ages. Superstitious, fearful of the “other, distrustful of the education and science, willing to accept deprivation and inequity as merely the “natural” order of things, and subservient to authority.
and an engaged and educated public.
Now that Obama and the Republicans took care of their friends on Wall Street, now comes their “bipartisan” effort to reign in the debt, i.e., attack social services and Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. If progressives think Obama did this to protect the middle class, they’re full of shit. This was done to secure Obama’s campaign donations and re-election. He in no way protected the middle class, because the cuts that will be me by he and his Republican cohorts will more than offset any gains the meager tax cuts and unemployment benefits that were given to the middle class.
So, now that the right (including Obama) has secured the future of the wealthiest Americans, now they’ll start the death march to AUSTERITY measures, and the eventual undoing of Social Security. I’m sorry I’m so cynical about Obama’s motives, and I know many progressives don’t want to go that far, but I’ve watched politics for most of my life, and am more prone to call a spade a spade. At some point, probably when the real hit to middle, working, and lower class Americans happens, progressives will be willing to call the president what he really is, a democrat in name only.
I take the president at his word, he intends to get the deficit and debt under control, and now that he’s boxed himself with these tax cut extensions, and has committed himself to fighting the Afghanistan war until 2014, where are there areas in the budget where cuts can be made. I want progressives, who are willing to be honest with themselves, to admit their trust in Obama to protect social services and programs from cuts, given his first deficit move was to punish federal workers with a two year pay freeze. What’s left with enough meat on the bones for the President to think it can bare some cutting, Social Security. His deficit commission basically gave us the blue print to his debt and deficit cutting agenda.
And here’s the final question, how will we fight back, given he has now shown us he will not fight a Republican led house, and will work with centrist, moderate, and conservative Democrats, who are more than willing to side with the rich, against progressive legislators. We had the best chance in a generation to change the direction of this country, and we elected a conservative Democrat wedded to the failed policies of Reaganism, who fought against progressives to ensure nothing substantial changed to adversely effect his campaign donors. I want list the caves, I think most progressives are aware of them by now.
Until we progressives are willing to recognize Obama’s agenda, we cannot hope to mount an effective counterattack to the coming AUSTERITY measures. We have to admit for once and for all, Obama’s just not that into Progressives, and he must be treated accordingly. It’s kind of devastating to our movement to realize the person we chose to lead us out of the dark woods of conservatism is now the same person we must attack if we are to survive the coming attacks on our most cherished policies and institutions.
Donald Strong
Augusta, GA
The electorate was played. They believed a Democratic minority who railed against the war would end, not extend. They believed that a Democratic party that railed against special interests would actually offer an alternative to a giveaway for corporate interests. They believed and dared to dream that the Democrats might actually offer solutions rather than playing the “we are helpless card.”
I don’t believe many here are giving the American people much credit. Nor have they given them much time in coming up with a solution to the two party two step. Revolutions don’t occur overnight.
Well, engagement and education takes infrastructure. The weakening of our labors unions directly correlates to the weakening of a sustainable Democratic majority.
Unless or until citizens get off their butts and start protesting this rip off of the proles, we can only expect more and more of the same d*mn thing.
Conservatives have been lulled into sheephood status by their media gods & goddesses, but Democratic voters are just about as passive and/or brainwashed as the rightwing.
I’m so thoroughly disgusted, but my disgust is for nearly *everyone* in the USA at this point: from the Oligarchs who are hell-bent to rip us all off and crush us under their bootheels, to the craven @ss licking corporate whore politicans who are only too happy to greedily get their payola to sell us all down the river, to the stupified dumbed down population who so easily satisfied with crumbs, bones & indulging themselves in vapidity & stupidity.
We are all so screwed, but until Jane & John Q. Citizen wakes up and really smells the coffee, I can only expect to be robbed, plundered, raped and ripped off even more by these greedy thieving crooks.
Agreed.
Old Gold! remember this simple FACT WHAT GOES AROUND WILL COME AROUND! :)
Obama is going to be very useful to the intelligent left in the FUTURE.
the following phrase is raising liberal and progressive organizations a lot of money.
“We hate OBAMA and the PHONY DEMS!”
this is the phrase that pays
Ask all those 23 Dem senators how they plan on defending the following?
1. Bob Dole Health Care Bill
2. Bush Tax Cuts
3. the Lying Black President Candidate
they say 3 strikes and you are out!
there will probably be more dark days ahead for progressives, but one day the SUN WILL RISE, and hell will be delivered to all those who betrayed us!:)
Oldgold what is up with all the POLLS, where were you with all those Public Option Polls?
Oldgold please tell OBAMA to run! :)
Actually once your lack of faith in our, or any government, becomes the order of the day and accepted by a broad consensus of the public, we will then, and only then, begin to be able to repair our republic. Peace
Well said!
What a disgusting lot of crooks we have in the white house and congress!
I haven’t found that to be the case in my neighborhood. I’m more prone to charecterize them is busy. Alot of the times too busy to know what government is and isn’t doing on their behalf.
Exactly. But we have ALL been conditioned to *not bother to protest* bc the facist corporate-owned media definitely only reports on what the Oligarchs determine will be seen. Protesting here in the States will only be *effective* if it’s ongoingly sustained… to the point where it simply cannot be ignored.
The Oligarchs are *counting on* the braindead populace to be far too busy, or too lazy & stupified to do that, and they’re probably gonna win that bet.
So well said that I feel it bears repeating! Thanks for that summary; completely accurate.
and that weakening of the labor unions began in the late 40′s and early 50′s during the McCarthy witch hunts. The purging of the socialists and communists, the best organizers and strategists, by labor itself to prove their “loyalty” to the plutocrats was the beginning of the end of a strong labor movement. The plutocracy took the long view. Get the unions to be the instrument of their own eventual demise. Worked like a charm.
Interesting.
They are being “kept” busy for a reason.
A word about Bill Clinton. In his acceptance speech at the 1992 Democratic convention Clinton stated that Professor Carroll Quigley of Georgetown University was his favorite person and intellectual. If you’ve read Quigley’s “Tragedy of Hope” you’ll learn exactly where Obama is taking us. Peace
This.
Just because the Dems were given control does not equal people voting for what’s in their best interest. many of those Dems had plenty of baggage to show you that they would not do much for the middle class
Faith is a great thing. It however doesn’t belong being placed in the hands of a scant few. It’s ironic that we would caution countries like Iraq that “Democracy is hard work and requires sacrifice.” but not embrace that concept ourselves. It requires constant vigilance and sacrifice(and that doesn’t mean just those in uniform are required to participate). I cringed every time someone said we should elect Obama because he would be easier and they were essentially interchangeable. It was my contention that was a LAZY position. It still is my contention. Even now it sounds like some are ready to give in rather than dig in their heels and fight the interests controlling our country.
I get what you’re saying and partially agree, esp about revolutions not happening overnight. I *think* where some of the “communal” frustration that is expressed here comes from is: many of us who post regularly at FDL keep getting intense “push back” from Democratic voters, who seem intent on not seeing reality… in much the same way that the rightwing is intent on not seeing reality.
Too many Democratic voters, or those who self-identify, as leftwing/progressive/liberal/whatever are still insistent on drinking the Obamaco Kool Aid and insisting that Obama is “doing the best he can,” and other nonsensical b.s. like that.
That’s where the frustration arises. We all know everyone is busy, but seriously? Citizens really need to *wake up* and wake up sooner, rather than later…. imo
I would quibble that it isn’t just Obama’s agenda.
Revolutions don’ happen overnight. But it’s been over 30 years of policies destroying the middle class. When does the night end?
When your signature initiative, raising taxes, is scuttled, what is left?
The problem is not the GOP, the problem is mismanagement by the Democrats all through the last two years.
1. waiting until the last minute to raise taxes instead of doing it long ago when it would have been easy.
2. having no public hearings and public involvement in HCR so that the public could not be on board and demand a public option. Springing on the public as a completed bill–which the public doesn’t like no matter the content.
3. A stimulus bill that was never designed to stimulate anything. No real thought put into it.
And on and on. A golden opportunity wasted.
Now, these cuts will be renewed every two years because the dynamic will be the same every time. So, they didn’t get renewed just this one time.
Why the Dem’s would keep such incompetent leaders like Pelosi and Reid is beyond me. Pelosi more belongs in Venezuela where she can maybe rule by decree as she seems to want to.
I think the seemingly big poll numbers only show how uninformed people feel about an issue that was carefully framed so as to return the desired polls numbers.
Using the phrase “Payroll tax holiday” instead of “Reduction in Social Security payment” helps prevent uninformed people from connecting the dots: If SS is in such dire trouble that it needs cuts, then why are we lowering the amount of money entering into it?
In order to answer that question, one risks toppling the house of cards regarding back-doors to SS cuts, SS adding to the debt when it never did before, opening a crack in the armor of SS and turning it into the newest pig trough, etc.
Neglecting to talk about how the tax cuts actually work helps prevent uninformed people from understanding that a significant number of people will see a tax increase instead of a decrease.
Besides,
Q: Who uses polls? A: Politicians and media.
Q: Is our media, and are politicians, unbiased? A: no.
Q: Then who are they shilling for? A: themselves.
Polls are intended to return data that supports a particular agenda. They are not meant to get a true snapshot of informed opinions. Today, polls are tools used by opportunists (or worse) to obfuscate, to confuse, and to buy time.
the truth hurts!
oldgold picture this commercial 2008 Obama vs 2010 Obama
I have a feeling middle america is going to come to the conclusion that someone is lying. What about you?
and yes, a Black Man playing Kabuki games with the DEMS base is not wise. :)
Obama is just a tool we will use to bash other phony dems! period
Apparently some of these phony Dems don’t know how to fight, they have better learn quickly.
Exactly. How long does it take someone to “wake up,” and how “patient” are we supposed to be? My frustration knows no bounds anymore… and it’s not just frustration with the fat-cats & the whore politicians anymore. WHERE is the protest over this???
Why can’t American’s pull a workers’ strike like they do in Europe? And why aren’t those unemployed protesting outside the White House? Are Americans too sick, or stupid, to even protest?
The greatest move on behalf of the plutocracy was the creation of an all volunteer military. Academia had once been a hot bed of resistance and action. Today’s academia has become nothing more than institutions of somnambulism.
No class consciousness. A blind faith in American exceptionalism.
You actually make some good points here, but you’re still *insistent* on buying into the “raise/lower taxes” hype, which is just a game perpetrated on you & the rest of us by the Oligarchs. The Dems didn’t have a “signature initiative” of “raising taxes.” That’s what RushGlennSarah say, but it’s *inaccurate.* The Dems & Obama did campaign on allowing the Bush tax cuts to end… as BUSH set them up to do.
Your last sentence is ridiculous, but a lot of what you say in the middle of comment is reasonably accurate.
Historians in France recently found perhaps the earliest poll ever conducted. It was commissioned by Louis XVI and the results indicated that the people were unconditionally supporting him.
All very very good questions, and ones that need to be asked consistently. Citizens should be encouraged and supported to take it to the streets, that’s for sure.
I don’t think most of us, even here at FDL, fully understand the problem. The problem is us, the middle class. The rich don’t need us any more. They do not need to invest in American enterprise because they can make more money elsewhere.
Hah!, you say, we already know that! Follow through to the bitter end. Why are the rich buying Congress? Why cut their taxes? The answer lies in why they didn’t do it sooner, and that, in turn is because they needed us and entered into a pact that required them to pay for the protections which the workers and middle class need to be secure but for which the workers and middle class could not pay for as the tax on them would defeat the whole process. But now, they don’t need us. Our children will have to become immigrants to the places in the world where the rich invest, therefore protect, and the USA will become in part anyway, an Aspen to the world. Those that stay become indentured to the rich that park here. Worse, child labor laws become defunct and we now will compete with the rest of the world by being cheaper then they.
Sic transit gloria.
There are a portion of the electorate that are going to be lost causes. There are a portion that will be convinced as time and conditions change. I’ve watched the progressive blogosphere from 2008 until now and I have seen people awaken. It’ll happen.
I actually agree with the right that there ought to be a Constitutional convention. We ought to be pushing for our own side to end the idea that money is speech.
Amen. For all the rightwing’s incessant *whining* about the dreaded eeevul LIEbruls in Academia, they’re been pretty much shut down by the PTB, like the rest of us.
And I do wish we had a Military Draft, but the PTB got the message loud & clear on that front. My bet is that we’ll never see a draft again in my lifetime. More’s the pity….
The country actually prospered during some of the 30 years you are speaking about. The 90′s were actually pretty decent for most Americans.
That pretty much wraps it up. There are no jobs and now there never will be any. Social Security will vanish, along with Medicare & Medicaid. Elections are a pathetic farce. All of our politicians are servants of the oligarchs. Our future is to be slaves or indigents in a fascist plutocratic police state, squabbling amongst ourselves for cardboard boxes to shelter in. I’m too old to try starting over in a different country. I have nothing left and no hope for the future. Despair.
Ah, but no. Their paychecks may indeed be slightly higher. This is really a stealth tax hike, because the raise in their paychecks that they will see over the course of the year will not be equal to what they would have gotten if they’d received the MWP credit at the end of the year when they do their taxes. The comparison won’t be paycheck to paycheck. It will be refund to refund. And by then, they’ll have long forgotten and won’t realize that this tax “cut” is really cutting their retirement throat.
There is zero similarity to feudal society in contemporary America as you must be well aware, unless you really don’t know what feudal society was all about.
Two years? They’ve been pretty inept since 2006. They were given the benefit though because the GOP was THAT BAD. Now we know they are either ineffective or complicit themselves. We’ve seen it with our own eyes.
The “revolution” began with the election of Reagan. It’s taken 30 years for the results of this “revolution” to begin bearing it’s bitter fruit. The prosperity of the 90′s was merely the last vestiges of the New Deal “revolution” which has now withered and died on the vine.
Oh you hit the nail on the head. With respect, though, many here at FDL have been saying just that – the Oligarchs do NOT need the middle class anymore – for quite a while.
I’m glad that you see that, though, and encourage you to spread the word. This is what US citizens need to “get.”
The conservative LIE that ever-more tax cuts are “needed” for the wealthy in order to “create jobs” is one of the hugest LIES to come down the pike. Yet we see conservative bloggers here all the time *insisting* that this is the TRUTH, as if it’s been handed down by Moses from Mt. Sinai.
Workers in this country, no matter how they vote, better wake up to realize that the Olgiarchs in the USA owe no fealty whatsoever to the USA. They’ve gone global and many many jobs these days can be off-shored to the poor & downtrodden in the third world, where the workers make less than 10% of what a typical US worker makes.
I just don’t see anybody rising up. How will they do it when there will be no support behind them?
Many can’t afford to lose their jobs.
None want lifelong detention without charges or representation.
Could we expect gun-toting TPers to help or hinder the effort?
Could we expect raids by cops in face masks while we sleep at night?
Who would get tagged as a “ringleader” by complicit media?
Tiananmen Square – in the end, all those people were crushed by the machine of the state. They had a moment of international attention, and then got crushed over the next few years. The same will occur here.
Suppose some kind of uprising was successful. Then what? Who gets to write the new constitution? What will the religious right have to say about that? What about the gun-toters? Too many groups, fighting too much with each other, make it impossible to correct the terrible situation that exists.
Unless there is massive international intervention into the misguided affairs of this government, its corporations, its religions and its people, I just don’t see how domestic action can have a net positive result.
Look, in my original comment [#23], I said the deal was inequitable and inefficient. As such, I am certainly not endorsing it.
My point, is that in political terms, this is not presently the loser most here think it is. It is, of course, possible that I am wrong about this or that down the road public perception will change.
Some societies “liberate” themselves from within. Some societies require being “liberated” from outside.
i think I get what he is saying even though I’m not sure it’s an apt analogy. The wealth is owned by a minority in this country and what wealth that is created by the middle class does appear to be being redistributed upward.
The 90′s were an illusion brought to us by the slight of hand of Bill Clinton. Electing Obama was a tactical move engineered by the Right and supported by the Left for its own reasons. Some of those reasons by the Left included not allowing McCain to become president of the United States so that he could expand the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and begin wars in Iran and North Korea. Maybe the Left was wrong, but I don’t believe so. Peace
Fixed it. They’re not inept; they’re corrupt.
I said most, because many do, but the position hasn’t been stated quite so starkly. Once that is fully grasped, the majority of postings as here about do this, don’t do that ad infinitum becomes moot, as it needs to be, as it is simply distraction, which the real rulers delight in. It is evidence we don’t get it which means they got us.
Go silent. That would scare them better than anything else. Report the facts then go silent.
Perhaps. It’s all conjecture, but you make some good points.
Analogy? You are kidding!
You have a point. I think many here “get it,” but then some newcomers who start posting often are still in the “processing” stage. It’s part of the learning curve, as it were.
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/tragedy_and_hope.pdf
link to parts of book for those who’d like to enjoy some light reading….:^)
Agree. NOT an analogy. It’s FACT, plain & simple. Over 65% of the wealth in the USA is owned by less than 3% of the population. What wealth that is presently earned by the middle class is ever-distributed upwards. Period.
It’s why the Tea Partiers are so mad… they see their middle class wealth consistently diminishing, and they are absolutely *correct* that their incomes/wealth are diminishing.
Unfortunately, they too consistently listen to rightwing propoganda & the Tea Party has been astroturfed by Oligarchs like David Koch… so the Tea Party *allows itself* to be pitted against *other* middle & lower class citizens, rather than actually *waking up* & fighting against their Oligarch oppressors. They drink the idiotic Kool Aid that someday they, too, *may* be a wealthy Oligarch, and in that case, they, too, will not want to pay taxes. So vapidly & venally stupid as to be pathetic, but I digress.
Too bad, but the Tea Party is indulging itself in a mug’s game, which inures solely to the benefit of the obscenely wealthy.
a lot of what Obama, Clinton, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, do is lie! for the elites
But the elites have made a huge mistake with OBAMA.
the ELITE agenda has always been simple, keep PROGRESSIVES out of POWER!
Obama Kabuki dances are not going very well, they are just pouring gas on a fire.
What is going to happen, is the elites are going to need someone to control the MOB “the ignorant american masses when they come to burn everything” and they will beg the LEFT to help and we will whisper NO!
Obama is not a smooth operator at all, he fumbles a lot.
In 20 months OBAMA has made all DEMS in congress irrelevant to the DEM BASE
the Dems in congress biggest enemy is no longer
the tea party
the GOP
McConnell
Orange Man
the Dems in congress biggest enemy is the DEM BASE
Obama just helped progressives clean house!
Progressive organizations will focus 90% of their energy on getting rid of DEMS, this is not what Dems or Obama wanted.
Number 1 mission of Progressives Organization is to destroy Dems in congress. (our members do not care about anything else, they want a team of BOLD LIBERALS in CONGRESS nothing else matters)
It is almost like Progressive are watching a harlem Globe Trotter Game, where everyone who already knows who is going to win.
Progressives needs a NBA team full of BOLD PROGRESSIVES that will at least compete against the RADICAL AND WACKO RIGHT.
You can’t win any game, when no one on your team shoots the ball!
Progressive have no players in DC.
Here’s a link to an article that explains it in greater detail:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/07/27/american_people_obsolete
It sure opened my eyes, and solidified much of what I sensed was happening.
Yes, this is why I always remind people the wealthy have long been out of recession. It’s just us proles who are hurting and to whom the “hard truths” must be told, and the “hard choices” must be made.
The dems need to replace their image of the donkey with the rat. We worked our ass off to get a democratic majority in the congress and a democratic president in order to get what? An extension of the Bush tax cuts!!! You gotta laugh about this shit or you’ll go crazy. All the phone calls and donations and going to door just to get an escalated war in Afghanistan, being forced to buy private health insurance under threat of IRS penalty with no controls over the premiums I am charged, plus an extension of the Bush tax cuts. Isn’t life grand? The republicans got more with a democratic majority than they cldve if McCain had won!!! Damn did we get played!! Pelosi made sure Bush didnt get impeached, and Obama made sure Wall Street was bailed out with no strings attached. And the funny thing is we voted for this shit. And what is even funnier is two years from now all the progressives will be rallying around these same demoRATS. You know what they say, burn me once shame on you burn me twice shame on me. If the demoRATS are going to vote and govern like republicans anyway we might as well let the real ones do it. Staying home in 2012.
How’s that not allowing the war to expand thing working out?
Thanks for that lucid explanation. My hope is that your message will be “Recommended” by those that kniw how to promote it. Maybe twitter and facebook?
I love this article, because it is very truthful
however the 1000 pound elephant in the room
is the fact the USA has little to no gun laws
school board in the USA get held hostage story says a lot about where the USA is heading and what the elites can expect.
the elites will probably leave the USA in droves
Well, we aren’t at war in Iran and North Korea yet. The war in Iraq has been substantially wound down. And the war in Afghanistan is a loser which only the military is still supporting. Once we shrink the military to a size small enough to be drowned in the average bathtub we may all finally get some Peace. But, I’ll bet there are still lots of supporters of the military right here on FDL? Peace
People support the military personnel but not the wars or the MIC or the egregious waste of your and my tax dollars on useless senseless wars of aggression. Big difference between supporting the rank & file, and what the Oligarchs are doing to wring every last US tax dollar they can on the MIC.
The thing is OG it’s not too hard to see what’s going to happen.
You defended the HCR bill when we said what it was going to do to the base, and when we said because of it 2010 was going to be a wipeout. You can look it up in the archives here.
This, this POS is HCR II, all over again. In one sense Obama was right, this is the Public Option debate all over again. Yes, it’s a policy that he CAMMPAIGNED ON, that progressives supported and worked for him on, and then HE AND THE DEMOCRATS completely sell out on.
LIke the HCR POS, you can’t blame the Republicans for this. The D’s had the majorities in both houses to pass what they wanted IF THEY SO CHOSE. The fact they CHOSE not to, is a fact that is fair to hold them accountable over.
And you can bet your ass that the part of the base posting here saying they’re done with the Democrats are but a portion of all of those out there who feel the same way.
Or you can choose to beleive the bullshit spin, some of which you’re spreading, all the way up to the next electoral landslide when the base refuses to support the Party that abandoned them.
The. Democratic. Party. DESERVES. To lose this base support. They CHOSE to cater to the rich and to the right, and all choices in life have consequences.
I used to say to you “Good luck in 2010″ before that wipeout we all knew was coming.
I still assume you’re a party honcho of some sort, so I’ll just say again… Good luck to you in ALL FUTURE elections. Because you’re really going to need it.
I completely agree with you, OFG.
It’s utter nonsense to attempt to SPIN this crap as anything more than a complete sell out to the upper 2%.
A sh*t sandwich is a sh*t sandwich no matter what you call it. Spare me any equivocating nonsensical spin. Not drinking the Kool Aid.
Aside from the details of the truly abysmal McConnell-Obama Tax Cuts For The Rich, here’s the problem: We can never believe Barack Obama or most other Democratic politicians again. Nothing they say has any credibility at all going forward.
How so? Every single person in today’s military is a volunteer. They ALL know that they will be sent overseas to kill somebody for the empire. Doesn’t that make them as guilty as the oligarchy who sends them off to fight? Peace
This should not comes as a revelation to anyone at this late date. Nobody has been able to trust any politician since Cain killed Able and beat it out of town. Peace
Or Abel if you’d rather. It’s a made up story anyway. Peace
thanks
Polls showed Americans supported this sellout, I mean compromise, by wide margins. This supports my contention that Americans are the most politically ignorant people on the planet. If you live in a dictatorship you have a better understanding of your political system and how it works than most Americans.
Americans claim they are concerned about the deficit, yet they support cutting taxes for the wealthy. This suggests a public ignorant about the causes of our economic problems, because they seem to have brought into the myth that cutting taxes for the rich creates economic growth. I will say this one more time for Americans too stupid to get it, these are not “new” tax cuts, these are “existing” tax cuts that are being extended, so the question is, WHERE ARE THE DAMNED JOBS! You would think this was rocket science or something, because people seem too stupid to understand this.
The only thing this nation has gotten from these tax cuts for the rich is a growing budget deficit and debt, yet independents and republicans think this is a good idea. Now the narrative is this must be the right thing to do and that Obama is taking a courageous stand because the right and left are upset about it. WRONG!!!! The right is upset about it because it has unemployment benefits in it, now there’s a moral position. The left is upset because it has been verifiably proven conservative economic policies have failed this nation and only exacerbate the problems facing this nation. Yeah, now there’s a balanced approach as to why the left and right are upset.
Also the media presents this as a win for Obama and his strong “bipartisan and pragmatic” leadership. There’s those words “bipartisan and pragmatic” again. When will Americans figure out these words simply mean “policies that benefit the wealthy and powerful” in America. Whenever a Democratic president settles for “bipartisan and pragmatic” approaches to solving America’s problems, it 100% of the time means a continuation of conservative policies that are destroying the middle class, and pushing more and more people into poverty, destroying the economy, destroying the environment, and creating a further concentration of wealth at the top.
But what the hell, what does that matter, Obama got a win, right!!! I am damned sick and tired of Democrats who contend we must support these policies because we don’t want to hurt Obama’s re-election chances. WHAT THE HELL! Answer this for me, if Obama continues Republican policies, what the hell does it matter whose in the White House or leading Congress. Conservative policies are conservative policies no matter who passes them. Outside of the Supreme Court, what’s the point in supporting him. It just continues to allow the right to muddle the differences between what are supposed to be Progressives and what are supposed to be Conservatives. Can anyone say with confidence which side Obama is on. Oh, that’s right, he’s in the mushy middle promoting “bipartisan and pragmatic” changes to our policies, which look remarkably similar to conservative policies.
I decided to look at just one of the polls regarding this bill, the Pew Research Center Poll.
Pew Research Center Poll
The question they asked was “As you may know, Barack Obama and Congressional Republicans have reached an agreement to
extend tax cuts and unemployment benefits. From what you’ve read and heard, do you strongly approve, approve, disapprove or strongly disapprove of this plan?”
So, as many may already know, the design of a poll and the questions asked always have an effect on outcome. In this case, someone may have thought about how they don’t approve of tax cuts for the rich but do approve of unemployment benefits and therefore responded with an “approval” score. It would be far more telling to ask about “approval” if unemployment benefits are removed from the equation.
In addition, I noticed that 51% of Republicans, 48% of Independents, and only 43% of Democrats polled thought this agreement would generally hurt the budget deficit. Since tax cuts mean less government revenue, yes, this agreement will hurt the deficit. Are Democrats the least informed?
No, you’re not alone on that, as I can attest!
Wow! If we only had more citizens with your passion, we might actually have better outcomes in this country.
By the way though, according to the Pew Poll a higher percentage of Republicans and Independents than Democrats actually recognize that this bill will hurt the budget deficit. But, the very wealthy wanted their tax cuts and that is all that matters to the Republican/Democratic party in the White House and Congress.
One other thing for those who talk about supporting President Obama due to the Supreme Court issue. Elena Kagen was a centrist at best. Does anyone think President Obama will suddenly do an about face and nominate a “liberal” in the future…especially when the Republicans have the majority in the House and he can use the excuse that he had to nominate a more centrist – conservative for that reason. Bet on it.
I agree – but with black support so strong there is no way to primary Obama – so for those on the “non-right” of politics we can only watch and note how he screws us – and scews even those black supporters amongst us – as he sells the GOP wet dream into law.
As to Norquistian dream – I see our devil – and mini-devil Howie Carr – in and about Wellesley and Weston now and then but I am too old to do more than feel angry – can’t even confront them as confrontation is for the young.
Great comment.
I would add this. Our economy gave us lots of toys. Our government took away civics class. And this is the result… citizens that are unsavvy in the ways of politics and goverment.
You need to go back and read your American history, Ymhotep. The way a revolution succeeds is not to abolish government but to remake it. Otherwise you get Somalia.
Our government, with all of its carefully balanced institutions, like a huge passenger airplane has been hijacked by terrorists. These are not political parties but wealthy corporations; we need to call it like it is. In their thrall are many politicians who would otherwise be useful to a people’s government but who see the only way they personally and their families can survive is through and by the wealth the corporations are continuing to horde. That means we don’t have a government any longer; we have a supra-corporate power base which dictates much as the Communist oligarchy did for the USSR every move their puppets make.
There is currently no way for the ordinary citizen to distinguish ‘good’ from ‘bad’ politician since all are under the Supreme Court phony edict that money is free speech, not citizenship. This phony government can even assassinate citizens, and who remembers habeas corpus any more. Just look at what has been happening to Bradley Manning and Julian Assange.
These corporates are however scared of the people, because the people outnumber them. They hire their progressive shills to pretend there is still hope in one or the other publicly fronted ‘Party’. There is not. Both are irredeemably corrupted by the very system that has replaced what was a reasonably well functioning democracy. We have to get it into our heads that this is no longer the case. We do want a sane and practical government such as the founding fathers provided us. We will have to create it for ourselves.
First, abandon the idea that you can continue to support the ‘good’ Democrats. If they are good, let them change their affillation – and by all means let them know they must do so if they want your support. I just heard Thom Hartmann say that we have to support Democrats because ‘they have all the assets’. I beg to differ. The greatest asset is our vote and we must deny them that. All they need to do in turn is join Bernie Sanders, become an independent, caucus with Democrats when they promote good laws, but otherwise do not support any Democrats.
We must regard both parties, which have both betrayed us, as Royalists. Wemust break free. We must set up parallel systems of government ready to step in when the economic crash comes, which it inevitably will. I am sure there are smarter folk than me already preparing for that. And we must have, not a Lenin, but a George Washington in charge. That is in our heritage. We can do it. Even without the web we can do it.
Do not disparage the American people. It is not they who have orchestrated this overthrow. They have done and will continue to do what is in their best interests. Distrust any poster who thinks the people have not been doing their very best to have good government. It wasn’t the people who failed; it was Obama; it was Harry Reid; it was both party oligarchies. They are all going to lose their shirts. We need to be preparing for that.
Only devastatingly economic hardship will wake the citizens up. The giant is still sleeping.
Don’t despair, mgloraine. It cannot last. Even if they win everything, it will not be enough. A crash is coming. The numbers are too overwhelmingly preposterous. Look ahead to that, prepare for that. There will be people to help you, really help, not just trying to make a buck off you. Most people are the former, and very soon there will be no wealth of the stockmarket kind, just wealth of the heart. Hang onto that.