every single returning Democrat wants a change. And if they all stay strong on January 5, they’ll get it to happen.

Normally I’d be all for anything that neuters the filibuster. However…

- Interesting that it’s only being done now that the Dems have a narrow majority. Couldn’t this make it easier for just a few ConservaDems to cross the aisle and prevent even the faux progressives from stopping rightwing legislation?

- Does anybody really expect Dems to “stay strong” on anything? I mean, really? Really?

Here’s my proposal. A political party only gets two opportunities a calendar year to force a 60-vote cloture. Every filibuster thereafter takes one less vote to break till we get down to a simple majority of 51.

So the Dems pass this gift just in time for the GOP to take over next election?

So Obama will not be able to get 51 votes instead of 60.
Not going to change much, except make their Kabuki more obvious.

This is fantastic news! But it sounds as though only returning Democrats have signed. The Dodderer doesn’t matter – his Senate career will be over before the filibuster reform vote is taken – but the new incoming Democrats do, including Dodd’s replacement Richard Blumenthal, and known DINOs like Joe “Christmas Party” Manchin.

DDay, do you know what positions the incoming Democrats are going to take on this? And do you know if Manchin has any late New Year’s post-parties scheduled for January 5th?

Not going to change much, except make their Kabuki more obvious.

Don’t underestimate the importance of that! The filibuster in its current form has been the most important single obstacle to the passage of progressive legislation, and the greatest barrier to transparency in government. It is a matter of immense importance to rip the masks off the kabuki dancers.

Why is there still not an online petition on this topic on FDL’s homepage? Until this issue is resolved (presumably on January 5th), this issue should get absolute top billing on FDL, above all others.

What I worry about, aside from Democrats holding firm and getting 51 votes for a rule change, is the fact that this has to happen on January 5th. If it doesn’t, there has to be another two-year wait for the next opportunity. Do the Republicans have a trick they can pull to keep this vote from happening on the appointed day?

Sure. What does Dodd care? Reforming the rules will probably make his new lobbying gig tougher.

Changing now…..just in time for the cuts to social security, we will see.

Funny how come the Dem leadership didn’t have the foresight in Jan09 to implement changes or did they….
Since some of the Dems(Warner & Shaheen) are already working with the GOP for “Fiscal Responsibility” & spending cuts…..look out folks,you know the least fortunate are the ones who are going to be stomped on.

Dodd, true to form, a prick to the end.

Among the chief revisions that Democrats say will likely be offered: Senators could not initiate a filibuster of a bill before it reaches the floor unless they first muster 40 votes for it, and they would have to remain on the floor to sustain it.

If this passes the 51 majority to change the rules I would welcome it, better if they also deal with “Secret” holds on bills. Enough of this fucking obstructionist crap in the Senate, the minority should never be able to hold the majority hostage..
How else can this country be properly ruled?? Let the minority just put a stop to the Business of the “People” for political partisanship?

Does anybody really expect Dems to “stay strong” on anything? I mean, really? Really?

I imagine those would be limited to half a dozen kossacks, Ed Schultz and John Cole,

Technically, it doesn’t necessarily have to happen specifically on January 5th. It only needs to happen before (or, rather, instead of) the re-adoption of the old Senate rules that allow filibusters. It’s merely that (as common sense would dictate) establishing its own rules of procedure is normally the Senate’s first order of business whenever a new Congress (in this case, the 112th) meets. If, for some reason (say, a terrorist attack), the Senate could not meet on January 5th, the rules could still be changed on January 6th.

To get even more technical, the Senate rules can actually be changed at any time – but any attempt to change them to eliminate the filibuster would itself get filibustered under the old Senate rules, and thus would fail, if the attempt were undertaken after those old rules had already been re-adopted. To prevent that from happening, the attempt must be made before those rules are re-adopted, while the Senate is still operating without its own customized rules. (Presumably, it works by default Robert’s Rules of Order, or some such, until it adopts its own customized rules: either the ones that governed the previous Senate, or a new set with some changes made – like filibuster reform.)

Secret holds should also be banned, of course. They’re part of the same set of obstructionist tricks as the current filibuster rules. All of this BS should be reformed, not just the filibuster. And FDL should be pushing for it to happen from now until January 5th!

I wonder if LIEberman and Sanders are included in this? I could see Sanders being for it but not really Short Ride.

Exactly! When 2012 comes along, and (possibly) the repubs get the majority, the dems will REALLY have a hard time getting anything through that has any scent of progressive to it. Not sure this is good idea until after the 2012 elections are over.

The Democrats won’t filibuster like the Republicans do; they had the chance in Republican Senates under Bush, and they never did. And, really, would you ever want the Democrats to obstruct to the point of government shutdown “lite”, as Mitch McConnell’s Republicans have done? The filibuster is pure evil, and has no value as a defensive weapon for progressives. (I’m not talking about Bernie Sanders’s nine-hour diatribe; that wasn’t even technically a filibuster, and it wouldn’t likely have been stopped under any set of new rules that are likely to be adopted.)

The history of the filibuster does not support the idea that there is anything good about it. It was historically used mostly against progressive legislation, especially civil rights legislation.

I thought the Republicans have done a damn fine job of containing the crazy left. Now let the budget cutting begin! Then watch the crazy left resort to the evil filibuster.

Yeah, I just turned off Schultz celebrating Obama “getting his swagger back”
I nearly threw up.
I talked to my 96 year old Aunt a little while ago and SHE says it seems like Obama has gone over the the republicans. She doesn’t have a computer…she just pays attention. 96!
I very alarmed at what the new congress is going to impose as austerity measure on the poor while they gave a budget breaking tax cut to everyone else.

Since I considered a “useless eater” or “the lesser folk” by subhumans like Kissinger and Simpson. I’m pretty sure being disabled will be considered as the first to go.
My new republican governor promised she wouldn’t cut Medicaid, but lo and behold! the beeyotch isn’t even sworn in and now is saying that’s exactly what she’ll do. Bush cut and Clinton started the privatization in the late 90′s and there’s hardly anything left of it anyway

Notice any war coverage lately? I sure haven’t, except more bodies for it from DADT.

And then, the fake internet neutrality rule which has been promptly forgotten in the wake of re-making Obama into a progressive hero because gays can now openly get their asses blown off in the corporate wars.

I talked to my 96 year old Aunt a little while ago and SHE says it seems like Obama has gone over the the republicans. She doesn’t have a computer…she just pays attention. 96!

That’s actually marvelous news. If the general public is getting the message, there’s still hope.

“useless eater” or “the lesser folk”

Weren’t those Nazi terms for the disabled?

And then, the fake internet neutrality rule which has been promptly forgotten in the wake of re-making Obama into a progressive hero because gays can now openly get their asses blown off in the corporate wars.

Tell me about it. That has been one of the most troubling developments. How much longer will Verizon and Scumcast tolerate FDL if they don’t have to?

Forcing 40 members on the floor to sustain a filibuster makes them filibuster.

Whatever they do, they need to make it so that the 41 all have to remain on or near the floor, lest they lose a filibuster vote. Right now, only the Senators who want to end a filibuster are obliged to stay there, as I understand it.

Not long. And MY little online business which makes up some slack in the starvation benefit I get on SSI will go down the tubes.
I can work a little bit, but only because I’m so fast and good at it when I can.

Yep. How convenient for the blue dogs and the closet blue dogs in the Senate that they take these steps now. So the incoming Republicans (I think 46 of them? Is that right?) will march in lock-step as usual, and all they need to do is grab 5 measly blue dogs and they will have control. I think the chances of that are 100%.

I bet THIS will pass:
House Readies a Constitution Moment

And they know it too.

some of the Dems(Warner & Shaheen) are already working with the GOP for “Fiscal Responsibility” & spending cuts

Warner and Shaheen? Hey, don’t forget classic DINO sellouts DiFi and Ron Wyden. Everytime I look at my Senators, DiFi and Babs, I laugh when I’m told that CA is a “blue” state.

Wish your Aunt Happy Holidays for me. Not easy to fool many of the oldsters who remember how things used to be, pre-the New Deal.(My last Aunt died a few years ago, but not until she made it to 95.)

And Best Wishes to you, too.

I just turned off Schultz celebrating Obama “getting his swagger back”

That makes two of us. But I was too slow and had the most unfortunate occassion to hear Shrum crowing some bullshit about how His Hotness Obama has bestowed such freedom and love upon us with his super-duper grace.

It was painful.

But on a serious note, I’m not even watching Countdown or TRMS any more.
The whole lot of them might take one day out of every 100 to speak truth to power, but then they go right back into cheerleading for bad policy.

While it does not urge a specific solution, Democrats said it demonstrates more meaningless showboating

The rule change issue will either save the Democratic Party or expose it as a corporate tool with a smiley face. Either outcome is a step ahead of where we are now.

I suppose the best we can hope for is that the depredations and the public awareness are related. The more blatant it gets, the harder it is for the general public to remain unaware.

But if it takes 40 votes to sustain a filibuster, the Republicans are more disciplined than the Democrats, Going forward, if the filibuter floor rules were changed, it will probably stop more Dem filibusters than Republican.

I’m a fan of Frist aide Martin Gold’s idea of point of order allowing any senator to call for a vote after a set period (let’s say), 20 hours of debate- every bill would become a reconciliation bill. Individual senators could still make a point (and sometimes get their way) by slow walking votes for hours if not days.

My Aunt’s pretty sharp at 96. She was very sad tho as she lost her 20 year old kitty a couple days ago.

Neither am I. I should just have Comcast turn off my TV service I can’t stand the thing anymore……they keep going up too. My aunt said something about it too, in regards to the “lack of inflation” which has produced no COLA for 2 years.

Changing the rules now will be like closing the barn door after Republicans have burned down the barn. Two years ago would have been great. Now it will only take the collaboration of a couple of RepubliDems to give the GOP complete control of the Senate.

Lieberman
Nelson
Webb
Tester
Feinstein
Landrieu
….to name but a few

It’s a day late and a dollar short.

Now if only they would introduce a constitutional amendment to abolish the Senate. During the next two years, the primary advantage of a change in the filbuster rules would have to do with presidential appointments. Nothing progressive will be passed by the house, so the ability to push progressive legislation is irrelevant.

It’s never too late, and there’s no downside. The idea that progressives have anything to gain by retaining the filibuster is a complete illusion. If the DINOs are going to collaborate with the Republicans, at least eliminating the filibuster (and all other forms of obstructive obfuscation, like secret holds) will force them to leave a paper trail that we can use against them at their next election. At present, the Republicans mostly get what they want anyway, and there’s no way to pin it on those responsible.

Sebastos I hear your point.

but we progressives have been screwed a lot by this WH! Senate, and House of Representatives

Nothing = Nancy Pelosi passing 400 bills and Harry Reid killing 400 bills

Come 2012, Dems gain seats in the SENATE, will the SENATE bring back the old rules where 60 is the new majority?

We simply don’t trust any of them!

Because what progressives fear is this, when the GOP is in charge 51 is the majority and when dems are in control 60 is the majority.

23 dem senators are up for election in 2012, that what this is all about, they need a lower majority to play their KABUKI games! (let us all be honest the current SENATE FULL OF DEMS pass the BUSH TAX CUTS, the MITT ROMNEY HEALTH CARE bill, so we really don’t have many real Dems in the Senate)

the 23 DEM senators up for election in 2012, can’t afford to attack their liberal base to much, the next 20 months.

Before anyone gets too excited, Mark Pryor is representing a group of Dems who will only agree to change the rules if the Republicans agree as well. In other words, we’re back to square one.

I’m confused, do they still filibuster? Seems like the real problem is Reid.

What’s your source for that?

none of this matters anymore.
obama and the republicans(they are ALL republicans) will pass any bill they desire and it no longer matters what the people want, if it ever did.

people must realize they have about 16 months before the economy blows up for good to steal everything in site.
and that is exactly what they will do.

That’s not so. The Ds can get rid of the filibuster at any time by using “the nuclear option.” See my: http://my.firedoglake.com/letsgetitdone/2009/12/28/drive-a-stake-through-its-heart-updated/

Hi beowulf, I don’t want to fool around anymore. I’m a fan of majority rule in the Senate and getting rid of the filibuster entirely. If we’re going to have two houses in the legislature. They at least ought to be equal in power. The filibuster has made the Senate much more powerful than the House, and the Senate is the more undemocratic branch to boot.

I know. Rachel almost made me throw up the other night with her cataloging of all “the successes.” I wonder when it became standard to evaluate success or failure without having a standard for doing so other than comparison with the number of bills passed by previous Congresses? And what about the question of how what was passed stacks up against what was needed? I guess that question is off-limits on TRMS these days.

It will pass and people will suffer from its effects. But they’ll almost certainly lose control of the House again in 2 years because their austerity programs will result in a worsened economic situation. They’ll try to blame Obama, but if he’s smart enough to fight them on the austerity, then they can be tagged with all the blame.

“Changing now…..just in time for the cuts to social security, we will see.”

Exactly.