According to the Washington Post, Arizona has a law on the books that enables anyone to identify a potential victim of mental illness, and remand them for treatment:
Under Arizona law, any one of Jared Lee Loughner’s classmates or teachers at Pima Community College so concerned about his increasingly bizarre behavior could have contacted local officials and asked that he be evaluated for mental illness and potentially committed for psychiatric treatment.
That, according to local mental health and law enforcement officials, never happened.
“To the best of our knowledge, he was never and is currently not enrolled in our system,” said Neal Cash, president of the Community Partnership of Southern Arizona, which provides mental health services in Tucson and Pima County for the state. While most of those it serves are on Medicaid, Cash said anyone diagnosed with a serious mental illness would be in its system.
This is all well and good, but WaPo is leaving a lot out, and indirectly blaming Loughner’s teachers and classmates for not taking advantage of the law. First of all, Arizonans generally don’t appear to be aware of this law. Second, it requires them to petition a court – a laborious procedure that a mere acquaintance may not be willing or even equipped to undertake. Third, Arizona’s lax gun laws failed to catch what Pima Community College did do to Loughner – suspend him from school and disallowing him to return without a mental health clearance. Even if this didn’t trigger anything in the gun background check, you’d think this would have raised the awareness of the people most inclined to get counseling for Loughner, his parents.
But the most glaring oversight here, what WaPo waits until paragraph 21 to tell you, in a story told almost entirely from the perspective of mental health professionals in Arizona, is that the state is one of the worst in the nation at delivering mental health services, and cut back significantly on its mental health programs during the Great Recession in order to balance their budget. That’s not paragraph 21 information; it undermines the entire premise of the article. Adam Bonin, in conversation with mental health expert Prof. Mark Heyrman, brought this up right from the beginning:
Heyrman: In my perfect world, when a student was suspended from school for mental health reason, the college would be required to link the student to mental health services or at least an evaluation by a community mental health provider. That, of course, would require the state to make services available to those who were unable to pay.
Q: So when we see articles that note that Arizona cut its budget for mental health services by $36 million last year (37% of the total budget), that matters [...]
Heyrman: It matters A LOT! You are going to see more people with untreated mental illnesses across the country as states deal with the financial crisis. Some will be homeless, some will get arrested, some will commit/attempt suicide, some will suffer in silence (or burden their relatives) and some will end up in hospital emergency rooms. Almost every state is facing this problem.
How could you write an article suggesting that it was a snap to find treatment for a mentally disturbed individual in Arizona without foregrounding that such treatment has been drying up for years? Even if some peer of Loughner’s had the foreknowledge to use the Arizona law on the books, with those scarce resources it’s certainly plausible that he would have still slipped through the cracks. And the cutbacks in mental health services invariably hit at access and promotion; nobody knows about the services available, because if they did, the programs would quickly become oversubscribed. As Amanda Marcotte notes:
Some people are lucky enough to have insurance that not only covers mental health services, but makes referrals, but those people are rarely 22-year-olds attending community college. It’s not like there’s a centralized, low-cost mental health service similar to Planned Parenthood for reproductive health services. Maybe there should be, but in our country, getting more funding for this kind of necessary health care infrastructure is like pulling teeth.
The problems with our mental health systems in the U.S. are just part of a larger problem with health care in general—people fall through the cracks, diseases that could have been prevented or minimized with early interventions instead fester and become bigger, more expensive problems down the road, and we don’t do enough to connect the available services with the patients in need.
It’s a weighty enough burden to place on a classmate or friend or teacher to commit a fellow student, one who was increasingly closed off from the world. Most people don’t have psychology degrees, and though several came forward to say they felt threatened or creeped out by Loughner, predicting that individuals will turn violent is an inexact science even for professionals. But it’s certainly that much harder to identify and treat those suffering with mental illness if the programs are being dismantled block by block. I’m sure that 37% cut made for a nice patch in the budget process, but there were – and will continue to be – significant and severe consequences for that. Contra WaPo and the people it interviews for this piece, it’s not as easy as dialing M for mental health to reach a large team of caring professionals. At least not in Arizona in this day and age.



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Does this mean I can call the funny farm for the Arpaio pick up?
No, just dial M for mental health treatment.
Their operators are standing by.
In India.
Even if you have health insurance, you have to get Blue Cross’s permission prior to making an appointment to see a health professional for mental disorders.
Hey, my neighbor’s an asshole…I mean, crazy. Can you guys come get him?
AZ just sucks. Their fu—- up laws, their hate, their politics, the fact that they have pulled transplant money from 100 sick people-2 have died so far-, their lax guns laws, lack of mental health services-all the way around the place sucks.
And i don’t even know what can be done about it.
It takes a village… this time the village didn’t do it’s job.
It is very difficult, to make the decision, and carry through with it, to have someone committed for a mental health disorder.
I work in the public sector and encounter mentally unstable citizens daily. It’s really easy to see how some of them could “snap” and get violent. We actually get training from Social Workers on how to handle the mentally ill because so many of them can no longer get adequate treatment in our fabulous society (so much for the so-called nanny state).
What so many conservatives don’t get is that by ignoring and running away from the issues of mental illness, they are putting all of us at risks just like this. Rachel Maddow made a big point on her show last night to indicate that quite a few of those killed or injured were “staunch Republicans.” I *got the message.*
From what I can gather, the corporate-owned rightwing media has been subtlely or blatantly pumping out the meme that bc Giffords was a Democrat, it’s a big “so what??”
Conservatives need to consider that situations like this could easily happen to them, and the rightwing hate speech and incendiary and inflamatory language is not going to insure the the “targets” are just horrid evil liberals. Such hate speech is a menace to absolutely everyone. Get a clue.
Can we call for McCain?
incidentally, mental health issues are not funny. not in any way.
Exactly. As a teacher or a student, who among us would feel up to the task of committing someone who is essentially a stranger? It’s a huge and complex process. I would assume that most felt it was up to Loughner’s family, not them, and I don’t blame them.
In a state that denies needed transplants to terminally ill patients, how likely is it that Loughner would have gotten the help?
There is also an objective difficulty in identifying mental illness & treating it, no matter how many resources you have. My personal situation included such an example, which I do not want to detail.
I’m not arguing against ignoring mental illness, or reducing the resources that go into treating it. I’m just trying to make the point that it is a really tough problem and that no one who deals with it on a serious basis should be demonized or scapegoated.
It’s the Right way.
As opposed to the correct way…..
Yes and yes. The potential for abuse of this law without proper administration and oversight is immense. And with a 37% budget cut…
Sheriff Dupnik said the best mental health facility in Pima County was the county jail. If that isn’t an indictment of the state of mental health care in AZ I don’t know what is.
*ahem* May I just add that visiting a mental health specialist at an HMO will drive your medical insurance rates up up up. Unless there is *real* reform there, no one has the incentive to get treatment for themselves or their children. Just sayin’
Soviet imprisonment of political dissidents as ‘mental defectives’ comes to mind.
Raygun made it possible.
Jeebus! Yeah, for all of his getting the right wing rhetoric issue right, he’s still just a county sheriff who sees everything in black and white. (Unless he was being tongue in cheek. I have no idea)
…and threw the mentally ill onto the streets. That’s St. Raygun.
Yep. Pitiful.
Read “Inclined to Escape” by Yuri Vetokhin.
He lives there and knows it first hand. We should not forget all the rhetoric about the Arizona immigrant problems. Yes, I know there are problems but there is a better way to handle it than the big tall tales.
They’re coming to take your jobs, they’re coming to use your money up, they’re coming to take your freedoms. All day, 24/7. Yet no mention of the border wars goes into this.
Hey, I’m just hoping that the Texas Republicans are foolish enough to follow suit and pass draconian anti immigrant laws. That’s one way to get the lege back in Democratic hands.
You can treat substance abuse and mental illness with resources dedicated to them or you can manage them with law enforcement. Putting them on law enforcement budgets is always more expensive and frequently more lethal.
*sigh* I suppose it is useless to present the facts about mental health care “reform” under Reagan and how it has created part of our problem today. Conservatives don’t seem capable of rationally evaluating the facts.
He was dead serious. The short discussion was about mental health care in the state. Started out with him talking about what they did to the state hospitals after RayGuns’ policies resulted in them being closed down across the country. I was still working in psychiatry and we were very concerned about what was going to happen to the patients.
Yep. I’m afraid America is not horrified enough yet though. The repubs think it’s no biggie that a member of Congress and a Fed Judge, along with a small young girl are gone. It’s as if the enemy was gotten rid of.
I think my neighbor is mentally imbalanced, in part because she carries a gun around town, and has a sign on her gate with a big gun warning people not to mess with her. She also has a big sign which says, “don’t tread on me”. She is also very wealthy and has threatened to sue us if we went on her property which we have never done. What, does she think we are crazy enough mess with a gun toting psychopath? One of our neighbors reported her to the police a few years ago because she said she was going to run over another member of the community. Nothing came of it.
It’s complicated. How do you turn in your neighbor? And what if she actually ended up being put in the mental hospital? What happens when she gets out? She might just be paying you a visit, especially if she is unstable and/or vindictive.
Arizona is apparently determined to recreate the conditions of the wild, wild, west. I don’t think that turned out well and evolved into a society based upon the premise where individuals did not serve as their own law enforcement. Apparently, Arizona and much of the rest of our society is embracing anarchy in the form of self defense. The NRA response to these shootings is that we need more guns. If only Rep Giffords had been holding her glock in her hands while talking to constituents it would have turned out better.
‘draconian anti immigrant laws’
One mans honest descriptor is another mans de-legitimizing rhetoric.
Ah! So when he said that, it was because there ARE no mental health facilities in Pima County? How fucked up is that?
Yeah I think we know the kind of xenophobic rhetoric we can expect from you. Why don’t you go back to Michigan or wherever you’re from?
Senate Bill 1070 added article 8 titled:
“Enforcement of Immigration Laws”, not
“Draconian Anti Immigrant Laws”
Some might consider intentionally altering the facts to be inflammatory rhetoric.
Who pays to identify and treat the mentally ill? Last Saturday it was a congresswoman and a 9-year-old girl, among others.
http://www.canada.com/news/Mass+shootings+since+1999/1461956/story.html
Is there another way?
WTF? I didn’t say anything about “enforcing immigration laws”. I very clearly wrote, “Hey, I’m just hoping that the Texas Republicans are foolish enough to follow suit and pass draconian anti immigrant laws.”
PASSING laws has nothing to do with enforcing EXISTING laws. Some might consider intentionally misrepresenting what people say to be inflammatory rhetoric.
What happened? Did you think that I just wandered off so you could get away with lying about what I said?
I hear you …
I think that there is a notion literally killing this society– the whole idea that the only kind of worthwhile human output is work that benefits investors with profits. With a core organizing concept as that, how could anybody be surprised that any sort of real, ubiquitous health care is not institutionalized in the US let alone mental health care and the associated things as assisted living facilities?
It’s like we’re living on a plantation … oh, wait.
Yes he did…it was then incumbent on “faith-based”, and communities to care for these sick people.We all know how well that has worked over the last 30 years.Thanks, St. Ronnie, I hope you burn in hell.
The whole conversation is predicated on the conclusion that commitment is the correct solution. I’m guessing that’s based on the “consensus” about the “problem,” that JL was schizophrenic, paranoid type.
With huge kudos and respect for the professional integrity demonstrated by Jeff Kaye in his recent post re: diagnosis from afar – i.e., pros w integrity just don’t do it – I concur – nonetheless it is worth mentioning, if only for the purpose of educating & expanding possibilities for those who want to know – there are alternative diagnoses that fit the symptoms/difficulties exhibited by JL – and the prescribed intervention is far less invasive. Yes, I do have a educational and work background in clinical/counseling psych, although I do not currently work as a counselor, nor have I ever been licensed. I did, however, train for the clinical portion of mental health assessment in a variety of settings – from inpatient to university to private practice.
Please read this description for Expressive Language Disorder
Specifically
Recall that one of the friction points for JL was the imposition of grammar rules. He dropped out of school, but his reported reading list includes sophisticated texts. His (by now widely publicized) “if-then” logic strings very much resemble attempts to construct complex thoughts while abiding by the rigors of grammar structures.
Alongside the discussion of cuts to community MH services, budget cuts have also impacted school Special Education budgets, another intersection where we have the opportunity to identify students who possess potential to be equally functional members of society, however it is that they are differently abled. It is WE who need to be more adaptable in terms of our resources for reaching differently able students to provide them with opportunities to engage and express themselves. You know, the whole music, arts, “enrichment” bailiwick.
How many times do we have to observe the decline from marginalization to radicalization before we figure out that the answer is not to increase isolation (socially or institutionally), but to find constructive ways to engage those who do not benefit from mainstream standards? How telling is it that the only ready-made conclusions we have on hand suggest the most invasive solutions? How telling is it that when a student does not conform, our only labels for them suggest defiant and intentional non-compliance and our repertoire for social rejoinders include all the attendant “redirective” violence meant to break down and reform his person?
A good analogy for the dynamic process of accommodating a wide range of communications capabilities (akey to developing dynamic and ever-evolving rationality), is our full complement of mechanisms for imports and exports in a given economy. Suppose our only option for conveyance was a railroad, but then a tree fell across the tracks? Suppose our only option was a seaport, but it was destroyed in a hurricane? The average Joe/Jane Citizen understands the frustration of dealing with these barriers, if only during inclement weather. But it is akin to what differently able people experience all the time. Nature endows individuals with immense and often untapped potentials. I swear it is the challenge of our social evolution if there ever was one. If you don’t want to feel “taxed” by someone else’s inability to carry themselves, make a commitment to creating a place for them to plug in & contribute.
That’s the kind of commitment our society needs.
I hear you, too.
And I despair that the balance sheet indicates this is an acceptable cost of doing business.
“it was then incumbent on “faith-based”, and communities to care for these sick people”
The USG first did something like this once the wars with the American Indians wound down. The “reservation” system was created and turned over for management by different church sects. Richard Heape documents this and what it really meant (e.g. “Our Spirits Don’t Speak English: Indian Boarding School“). Reagan just reapplied the technique on the whole population.
Didn’t mean to misrepresent.
You said “Hey, I’m just hoping that the Texas Republicans are foolish enough to follow suit and pass draconian anti immigrant laws.”
I just pointed out that what they passed was “Enforcement of Immigration Laws”.
“Enforcement of immigration” doesn’t sound too inflammatory, but “draconian anti immigrant”, somewhat.
But of course, you don’t have to agree.
It is preached by Wall Street, all corporations, business schools and the US “mainstream” media like a gospel. It was only a matter of time every only else realized the government was entirely captured by it when the natural and human “resources” started to get used up.
But you did but I’ll take your word for it that you didn’t do so deliberately. Other than your weird anti immigrant bent, I have a great deal of respect for you.
– zenmouser @ 40
I get the points being made by zenmouser @ 40 as well. For the society to function again at the level to engage those issues and the associated subtlety, I think we’re needing to do some remediation work for now (my honest assessment is that there’s about a 40 year history we have to retrieve but I don’t think it’ll take 40 years to do that remediation).
P.S. That rugged individualist of the Old West depicted in 1940s/1950s American films never existed. That’s a carefully crafted myth for propaganda purposes.
Don’t know if it’s been mentioned above, but it’s damn near impossible to get ANYONE committed or in a mental health program in AZ. My 89-year-old mother is batshit loco flaming crazy, and I can’t get her into a nursing home to save my life (or hers). My understanding is that AZ laws protect crazies, because of paranoid seniors afraid that their kids will have them committed and steal their money.
I swear to God this is true, at least in Pima County. It has been heartbreaking for me and my siblings that there is nothing we can do to help our mother.
I’m sorry, but it is not the States responsibility to provide mental health services. It is his responsibility to go get help.
And by the way, he was living at home. What in the world were his parents doing? He had a shrine in the back yard with a skull..hello!! RED FLAG
The State of Arizona and its laws or lack there of, have nothing to do with this..Politics has nothing to do with this..
In fact, you people would be the first to yell to the ACLU, if he was forced into counselling and forced to take meds, that his civil rights were being violated, which I might add, would be true.
This is a tragic event, as was the Ft Hood Masacre, as was the assassinations of King, the Kennedy’s Lincoln, Lennon…and children with cancer.
Hey Margaret, yuo are way out of line..no one is against immigration..I am against illegal entry
So when are we going to build the fence on the Northern border to stop all the undocumented immigrants who come in that way from Canada and Europe?
Of course I’m way out of line! That’s exactly why I have 112 listed friends here and you have none. But thanks for pointing out how out of line I am. :)
You make me blush.
But since we’re talking “misrepresenting”, I would suggest you do so routinely when it comes to immigration. Saying I have a weird anti immigrant bent is a perfect example. I might not always succeed, but I usually try to choose my words very carefully when it comes to immigrants/illegal aliens.
I support all legal immigrants just like I support legal pharmaceuticals. I don’t support illegal aliens, just like I don’t support illegal drugs.
We might still disagree on those issues, but it’s misrepresenting to assert that I’m anti immigrant or that you think you know the kind of xenophobic rhetoric you can expect from me.
Xeno- is a prefix based on the Greek word “Xenos”, meaning stranger. I’m not against the “stranger”, I’m against the “illegal”.
It’s not needed. Know why?
Explain it to me. But recognize that I do know and have known undocumented immigrants from Canada and Europe so if it is a problem on the southern border it is a problem on the northern border and should be taken care of in the same fashion.
alan1tx,
My penchant for posting is relegated to the “less read” threads here at the FDL. And if I want to post a polemic, I ascribe to writing a diary.
Now, as to your comment @ 51, I am inserting myself.
To wit, I ascribe to the mindset that the United States is experiencing the Fourth World of Democracy, and in keeping with the history of this Indigenous Hemispere. Thusly, the United States is just another Rez of today’s world for my Indigenous Hemisphere. Consequently, who “defines” and “designates” illegal, is pretty much irrelevant to my perspective. As such, migratory flows were ongoing, historically speaking, long before the Great European Immigration Era. And this iconic behavior will continue far into the future.
Moreover, Comprehensive Immigration Reform, will continue apace for the next two generations or for an approximately forty years. And why? The Native American/Chicano Construct will come about and when it does, CIR Part Two, will encompass and provide the opportunity for the “arch-conservatives” to voluntarily deport themselves to Canada, and other parts, with the taxpayers willing to absorb the cost and as part and parce to Good Governance for a Democracy that establishes the Fifth World of Democracy. And if we fail to accomplish this correctly, the Laboratory for Democracy will morph itself into a Loboratory for Lobotomies.
E’nuff said?
Jaango
You either believe that I won’t return to this thread or that my memory is so poor that I won’t remember any of your rants about immigrants. There is no distinction. People aren’t “illegal”. Especially people trying to feed themselves. I’ll bet you buy the cheap produce that’s only available because of their efforts.
I didn’t post at 51, but I get your point. You’re wise to follow the lead of the Mayans and make your predictions so far out in the future as to be unverifiable.
So you’ve figured out it must be one of those two huh?
I agree, people aren’t “illegal”, which is why I never said they were. Likewise, illegal aliens aren’t “immigrants”. I do buy produce (legally), I walk in the store, identify the produce, pay the required amount and take it with me. I don’t sneak in the store and steal the produce illegally.
There are different ways to go about things.
Is peace your first priority?
I am curious as I want to understand … In this construct you are describing, is peace (some say there is no peace without justice) explicit and of preeminence?
I have to do some other things for a bit but I shall return …
Lack of Mental Health services in the entire country will no doubt be an increasing problem with all the returning vets returning from extended tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Here’s two examples which were not given very much media attention.
Two Iraq Vets Kill Families & Themselves
A Former Hawaii National Guardsman and a Wisconsin National Guard soldier, both veterans of the Iraq War, shot and killed their wives and children before turning the guns on themselves this past week
http://www.newslook.com/videos/245534-two-iraq-vets-kill-families-themselves?autoplay=true
Yeah, I’m back …
alan1tx,
Oops, on the @51. I should’ve stated @52.
As to being “verifiable”, this verification is predicated on the Census Bureau, in which in 2050, the existing “majority” or white America, will become a “minority” and equivalent to a total of 25% of the overall population. So, there is no Mayan in my predictions.
Now, I am residing member of the Native American/Chicano Construct, and of speaking to the future, permit to say the following and for your edification and edumacation.
To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln…”labor supercedes capital”. Therefore, in about 2050, the United States will have become a financially destitute nation and with an overall debt exceeding $28 trillion. Consequently, the “majority of the majority” in about 2050 will have to decide as to whether to send the Marines into the off-shore banking havens in order to repatriate the existing wealth of over $104 trillion, and done in order to pay the bills that the Fourth World of Democracy has incurred and either is unwilling or unable to repay. Of course, could this too be a Mayan “prediction” from your political perspective?
And when this point of contention surfaces, the obvious response seems to be “I’ll be dead and I won’t care!” To wit, “corporations are persons” seems to be another equivalence, as well.
Jaango
OT– Tonight will be the Canadian broadcast of today’s interview by The Agenda with Steve Paikin with guest, Icelandic PM Birgitta Jonsdottir. More details here.
mzchief,
As to whether peace is pre-eminent, will be determined by the “issues” that will have to be addressed when 2050 or thereabouts, occurs. And yet, given the financial path being described by both the Neo-Cons and the Neo-Libs in their respective approaches to economics, the financial failure of the United States is pretty much guaranteed. As such, one argues in favor of “trickle down” and across the aisle, one argues in favor of “trickle up” and either way, all benefits are achieved for the Overtly Wealthy.
And because, America’s “racial and ethnic” communities are inherently “progressive” in their approach to politics, peace can be assured provided that the folks and who “believe in the line is shorter” on the political right, and predicated on government contracts being readily available, will be strenuously opposed relative to political advocacy. Thus, a subset of the existing political approach to the Military and Industrial Complex, will be addressed with considerable subtlety and nuance, knowing that the majority of the “racial and ethnics” are employed by either government or by contractors to government. And yet, we are getting an earful from both the Neo-Cons and Neo-liberal for their “attack” on pension funds and Organized Labor, as well.
Jaango
I think I understand what you are saying. Wow– still an amazing era to be alive (one of my great grandmothers and I watched the moon walk broadcast together and her first transportation was by foot, horseback or a wagon). Humongous paradigm shift still in progress and that’s not a linear process.
Sorry … mzchief @ 67 is a response to jaango @ 66
Having worked in the mental health system for many years I can attest that it is almost impossible to commit an adult involuntarily. Yes, you can have them evaluated, but many people are perfectly capable to keep it together for short periods of time, and therefore do not fall into the narrow category of being committed against their will.
As for the point raised several times, the idea was that people were becoming institutionalized, and should not have to be committed for lengthy periods of time. The solution was to provide mental health services in the community. Unfortunately, when people were discharged from state hospitals the facilities to take care of them for the most part remained nonexistent. Needless to say many of these people wound up in prison or on the streets. I must admit that the facility where I worked sometimes discharged clients to the street, or gave them a one way ticket to some place far away, where they would no longer be this community’s problem.