Another section not covered in the NBC poll featuring a surge of support for President Obama is Social Security. We know pretty well that the President is hashing out some kind of response to Republicans on deficit reduction for the State of the Union. Again, with this poll resurgence he probably feels a bit pleased with where things stand at the two-year mark of his Presidency. What’s clear in the NBC poll is that the deficit is not nearly as important as job creation. And a separate poll from Celinda Lake shows that Social Security cuts would have a severely bad effect on the President’s electoral chances:
President Barack Obama’s apparent willingness to consider cuts in Social Security benefits may be winning him points with Washington elites, but it’s killing him with voters, who see the program as inviolate and may start to wonder what the Democratic Party stands for, if not for Social Security.
That’s the conclusion of three top progressive pollsters who spoke to reporters Wednesday at a briefing sponsored by the Economic Policy Institute, the Century Foundation and Demos.
“For the public, cutting benefits is the problem, not the solution,” said Guy Molyneux, a partner at Hart Research Associates.
This isn’t just a self-preservation strategy for the President, but the entire Democratic Party, whose members will have trouble being elected dog catcher if they become the party that cuts Social Security. In the Lake Research poll, 82% of Americans oppose cuts to Social Security to reduce the deficit, and 67% oppose cuts to get the program to solvency. 69% oppose raising the retirement age. And 66% (including 59% of Republicans) support raising the payroll tax cap to bring the program into balance. The progressive positions on Social Security have 2/3 support or better in the country.
This is the poll finding that should scare Democrats:
Who will better handle Social Security?
Republicans vs. Democrats in Congress: 31% (R) to 28% (D); 34% both the same
Republicans in Congress vs. Obama: 33% (R) to 26% (Obama); 31% both the same
This is the first finding that Republicans are more trusted on Social Security since the 1930s. Obama’s trust rating is below George W. Bush on this front. So if he does call for benefit cuts in the State of the Union, he’ll realize the worst fears of the nation. When Democrats say “everything is on the table” in Social Security, they alienate the public on what should be a core issue. Running on a platform of cutting the program, in the words of Lake, is “a great way to really solidify our losses.”
One of the more interesting findings in the poll was how young people react to increasing the retirement age:
Young voters are traditionally considered the most likely to support changes in Social Security due to fears that it won’t be there when they retire. “But nobody told them they’re supposed to relish working a couple more years in this economy,” Lake said. They also don’t want older workers hoard the good jobs for even longer, she said.
This is just simple math. More people working longer means a greater barrier to entry in the workforce. That’s something people just embarking on their careers keenly understand. The Village clearly does not.




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I doubt it will affect the democrats much. Obama and the democrats could completely abolish medicare and social security, and people would still vote for them and vigorously defend them on message boards just so long as Sarah Palin and the teabaggers continue to play the boogeymen.
A lot of people have learned one simple truth the last 2 years.
Obama and the phony democrats in DC, can lie one second and smile the next the second, this character flaw helped them get elected in 2008.
The American People did not make millions of phone calls, write thousands of letters, wait in lines for hours, donate their money and time to help Obama and his army of con artist get elected.
Bernie Sanders said it best, no real democratic president would cut Social Security!
Lechero?
Listed below is what the American People did not vote for in 2008
1st Obama endorses the Bush agenda of spying on and killing americans
2nd Obama attacks Unions (the F! the UAW moment screams republican)
3rd Obama double downs on Bush Wars, (now they are Obama wars)
4th Obama attacks Teacher Unions (teacher unions now hate OBAMA)
5th Obama does not attack the Banks? he bails them out? (sorta like what the GOP does)
6th Obama passes the Bob Dole Health Care Bill (Bob Dole is a republican)
7th Obama kills the Public Option
8Th Obama kills Drug Importation
9Th Obama APPOINTS an insurance executive to manage his health care Bill
10th Obama does not APPOINT Dawn Johnsen
11th Obama hand picks the cat food commission to destroy Social Security
12th Obama supports Blanche Lincoln, a candidate who hates Unions, and has no chance of winning
13 Guantanomo still open for business
14.Patriot Act renewed
15. renditions continue
16. Bernanke reappointed
17. Americans targeted for assassination
18 Obama is all for sending more USA jobs off shore
19 Obama is for tax cuts for the RICH!
20. Obama and the TSA porno Scandal
21 Obama freezes federal wages for 2 years
22. OBAMA TARP Funds for Legal Services for Foreclosure Victims Blocked By Treasury
23. Obama lowers estate tax for the rich
24. Obama tax bill of 2010 GUTS Social Security
25. Obama wants WikiLeaks Assange charged with espionage.
26 Obama Fake Net Neutrality Caves to AT&T,Comcast
27 Obama Wall Street Buddies foreclose on USA soldiers Homes
Sad, but true.
Polls won’t stop Obama. The writing is on the wall. He will push to cut SS and will use scare tactics about the deficit to do so. It will be interesting to see the hoops Obama supporters jump through to rationalize it as happens.
The MSM will also ignore these polls. They will instead continue the deficit reduction drumbeat and spreading the lie that SS is responsible for deficit spending.
What the poll doesn’t tell you is that the Barack Obama message will be, “SAVE SOCIAL SECURITY! . . . by, uh, cutting it.” And the DailyKos democrats will cheer wildly.
I agree that those things are horrible (I mistrusted Obama the moment he started openly supporting a mandate without a public option), I just hope the American people can wise up and see it that way.
I think the results of recent elections show that the predictions of lechero are erroneous. Democrats won’t bother to vote. Who cares if Sarah Palin wins? Could she be any worse than Obama? Personally, I think she has a hell of a lot more brains and guts than Obama (not that that’s saying much).
President Obama is already on ‘thin ice’ with me. If he and the dems dare to make cuts to Social Security, i will NEVER vote democrat again. Furthermore, I’ll never vote again.
That’s the whole point. Get a Dem poseur to gut Social Security/Medicare and destroy any vestiges of the Dem Party in the process. My only question is why do the Plutocrats want to kill the goose that has laid so many containment eggs? Methinks something wicked this way comes, and they know it.
Let Palin win then watch it all burn down. If sunlight is the best disinfectant then fire is the cure for an infestation.
AlternateID @4 and VMT@5 pretty much summed it up. It’s been gloomy up til now, but come Tuesday’s SOTU, things begin to get really, really dark.
I’m 58 years old. I have saved responsibly for retirement. However due to the paltry interest rate environment, losing 40 percent of the value of my house (thanks President Bush!), and losing money on Wall Street I’ll probably have no chance to retire. I’ll just keep working until I can’t anymore, which means less opportunity for younger people!
The retirement arm of Social Security and the health-insurance arm of Social Security need to be broken up into two separate and distinct federal programs. That way those who are trying to either gut or privatize our federal retirement program can no longer get away with blaming the retirement arm of Social Security for creating our massive federal deficit. Then the truth will come out that the health-insurance arm of Social Security is to blame for this. And the only reason why our two federal health insurance programs, Medicare and Medicaid, are producing massive amounts of federal debt is because health care costs are still growing at an enormous clip.
But if any of our elected officials on either side of the aisle were to propose that we let Medicaid and especially Medicare go the way of the dinosaurs, the medical-industrial complex will ratchet up its lobbying efforts to make certain that this doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of ever happening! Needless to say, health-care insurers and the pharmaceutical industry are still managing to make enormous profits in a very anemic economy not because they are brilliant at making money in a free-market environment; it’s because they are brilliant at dumping all the poor and most of the sick onto either Medicare or Medicaid.
You still think Obama is a Democrat? you are a rare type.
you are going to enjoy David Axelrod and David Plouffe new Comedy Show, coming in 2011, it is name, Two Guys try to get a Con Man name Obama re-elected as USA president.
Below are a couple of Axelrod jokes
“Obama is a Progressive”
“Obama loves the USA middle class more than he loves Wall Street”
get your pop corn ready, Axelrod and Plouffe are going to make progressives laugh for days
In real news “OBAMA wall street buddies are foreclosing on US Soldiers and their families, yes Wall Street is doing what Bin Laden could not do, making USA soldiers HomeLess.”
Most citizens are asleep at the wheel and will just roll over and go back to sleep if Medicare & Soc Sec are gutted. Sadly I expect no protest whatsoever, and trad Democrats will either not vote at all or will continue to vote for the Great Pretender because he’s “better” than the alternative.
Don’t expect the Tea Party to kick up a stink either. I know from my rightwing family members that RushGlennSarah have been brainwashing them to believe that both Medicare & Soc Sec (which we have all PAID for) are eeeeeeevul socialism entitlements that should be wiped from the face of the earth. I fully expect the Tea Party to clap cheer and be totally thrilled to see Soc Sec and Medicare get gutted. That’s my bet.
Never fear! If Obama guts, (or tries to gut) social security, I’m sure Moulitsas, Cole, Yglesias, Digby, etc will figure out why it was necessary and that they could still support him in 2012. I’m thinking the ol’ “lesser of two evils” canard….
Obama has already demonstrated, by failure to address the economy and unemployment, that he doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the Democratic party.
That’s true for so many of us now. Even if fortunate enough to have a job, and even if you were able to save, now it’s hard to predict when you can stop working. There are no really safe investment vehicles anymore that make any kind of interest income. Sigh… we’ve all been robbed. Too bad most don’t know or get it.
True, yet most traditional Democrats, not just those at the Big Orange, line up to defend him. I hear it all the time in my neck of the woods. Most citizens are out to lunch and don’t get what’s happening, more’s the pity.
Yeah, as in: well who ELSE are you gonna vote for???????? (with the “nyah nyah nyah” implied)
What I find saddest is that today’s Democrats appear to be either willfully ignorant and apathetic or right-wing blue-dogs. I am very puzzled at the silence now of those who spoke up when Bush tried to privatize Social Security. That silence scares me.
His job is to find a way to cut Social Security. It doesn’t matter if he gets re-elected if he’s successful at that task.
I think many voted in Obama, and then just flipped the dial and stopped paying attention… just as the elites predicted they would…
I love how they always present it as a choice between Democrat or Republican with no other options. And by “love” I mean that I find it stupid and puerile.
Yeah, the level of awareness is extremely low. The media has to take some of the blame, but the fact that for years neither party has done anything to speak of for the average American has created widespread apathy.
U can’t control or ignore the 100,000 pound Gorilla name “USA CITIZENS WANT REAL JOBS” forever.
Soon the 100,000 pound Gorilla will attack and destroy all those who ignored him.
What scares me, is the idea that USA is control by a bunch of GREEDY DUMB BASTARDS.
Me-thinks all of this talk about one world govt. bilderburg group, tri-lateral commission, = DUMB RICH PEOPLE.
Second Me thinks, we are all about to become actors in a bad “MAD MAX MOVIE”
Social Security and Medicare will be the downfall of both parties if they remove it. There will be a large backlash from voters on all sides of the spectrum.
Yup, sounds like a Republican to me.
I use to think the MSM had a lot of control, apparently the MSM is dying rapidly.
the question of the day, is who is telling americans what to think? no one seems to know.
The traditional networks NBC, ABC, CBS, are all dying, traditional news papers like NY Times, Wall Street, Wash Post, etc. are dead.
this leaves everyone to wonder who is leading MOB
me thinks the MOB has no leader, and is about to wreck havoc all over the USA.
What do the right wingers and elites have to gain from removing social security? I mean, exactly what is it that causes them to go all George of the Jungle about social security?
What is the big deal for them?
That’s a fat pot of money in that trust fund. Believe me, if they eliminate social security, they’ll find a way to keep the money. They probably already have figured that part out and are just trying to figure out how to survive politically so they would still have access to it after the elimination of the program.
EDIT: Besides, conservatives live in the past and 80 years ago doesn’t seem that long to them. They hate any social programs just on principle.
IMO it’s the Social Security trust fund that holds something like $2.5 trillion in Treasury bonds. Our overlords have spent it on imperial wars and tax cuts for themselves, and they don’t want to pay it back.
Guess I owe you a beverage.
Bingo!
“Obama’s apparent willingness to consider cuts in Social Security benefits may be winning him points with Washington elites”
Of course it is. These are people who will be unaffected significantly by any cuts and who are totally unaware of how much it will harm those who unlike themselves have little.
It is especially telling that we are not hearing anything about cutting benefits for those who have no need for them.
At least a (tea) party was formed within the republican party..they may be misled/misinformed and wrong on some core issues but they did get together to a degree and it’s been a concern for the elites (must contain/misinform/defund by funding)…Liberals in the democratic party..? nah we just lay on our backs and bitch, can’t make our own tent in this tent..it sucks.
where is there any evidence that Obama wants to cut social security? would anyone’s judgment here change if he doesn’t call for cuts in the SOTU or have you all already convinced yourselves that he is evil incarnate?
I am all done with Obama…..I was “chumped” when I voted for him and it won’t happen again. I was scrolling down his invite list for the Chinese State Dinner and noticed that fat ass Gov Chris Christy on the list. That took up two chairs at the dinner……..some poor Union slob could have been invited if Christy was not on the list. Do you believe it!!!…….he invites a guy like Christy who is the biggest enemy to the working class in this country.
Were done folks……..if the Progressives don’t run someone for Pres we just need to stay home election day 2012.
But ‘progressive positions’ only represent the radical fringe, so they don’t count.
Don’t forget to call the White House (202-456-1111) to tell them how you want to work longer so you can die before collecting your SS and leave your grandchildren unemployed in order to pay for the Obama Tax Gift To The Fabulously Wealthy.
That’s just because the ‘baggers are nothing more or less than bigoted, racist and violent Republicans that the party doesn’t want to piss off by calling out but would like to be able to disassociate themselves with when something bad happens because of their ugly rhetoric and tactics. Didn’t work though because almost all of them rushed to embrace the ‘baggers and then defended them when Gabby Giffords was shot.
Yep. Just the dirty fucking hippies in need of drug testing.
If he weren’t serious about cutting Social Security, why go through the charade of the “Deficit Reduction Commission” and using his appointments to stack it with people on the record as calling for Social Security to be cut?
Alan Simpson, Steven Bowles…..etc.
I never said they were right or had good policie ideas or anything of the sort, just noticing that at least people in that party got fed up and did “something”…Liberals in our party…crickets.
For some reason it won’t post the whole WH #, trying again: 202-456-1111
My God, with such clear and unimpeachable evidence how could I possibly doubt it! (snark). are you including Andy Stern in that list?
Wasn’t finding fault MrChip. I was agreeing. When comparing teabaggers to Republicans, you are implying disparity where none exists. That was the only point I was making. :)
Not to mention him stating that SS is “on the table” when it comes to deficit reduction, in spite of the fact that SS is self-funded and not part of the general budget.
yeah, a list of two names with “etc” added on isn’t really “evidence” – at least as I understand it.
link please. When you use quotes that’s an indication of a direct quote. I’d like to see such a direct quote from President Obama
Do your own search.
I see two possibilities, really. My money’s on option 2. I guess a combination of both could happen too.
1. The Three Card Monty option
“By simply shuffling this over here, that over there, switching the positions of these and those, nothing up my sleeve, and whaddya know??? There is NO CUT TO SOCIAL SECURITY!!! And psst- if you do happen to notice any of the cuts we’re trying to hide with our shell game, it was those mean old republicans who forced us to do it.”
2. The 2% Payroll Tax Holiday option
Obama’s tax cuts for billionaires also included this little gem of a back door. It “cuts” your SS contributions from 8% to 6%, replacing those monies with an allocation of funds from Congress. In other words, 25% of the Social Security Administration’s revenue stream will no longer come from your paycheck, but will come out of funds allocated by the House of Representives, which is conveniently controlled by Republicans. The House Republicans will simply opt not to fund that 25% portion of the Social Security Administration’s revenue (or maybe they’ll fund 73% of that 25%, but they won’t fund the whole 25%). The lack of funding will force the SSA to make cuts, cuts neither Obama nor the Republicans officially ordered them to make; but, guess who gets to oversee all those cuts that were never officially legislated into existence?
Gotcha, thanks. I was hoping they would maybe spur other groups into forming…guess we just get the kkk branch of the gop for now…
Everyone in DC must think the masses are full of MORONS!
Obama clearly has no shot of getting re-elected. (the MSM polls always leave out a couple of known facts, Obama can’t win without his Hard Core Liberal base that now hates him, Clinton could do Republican Lite, Obama can’t, because he is Black, this is just a fact)
Obama from day one has intentionally done everything in his power to keep from getting re-elected. (FDR gave Obama the blue print to save the USA from Depression, OBAMA throw it in the Garbage Can, and tried to make Hoover proud)
Did anyone feel a wind during the 2008 campaign season, saying the USA wanted more BUSH? I did not
Obama has really tri-angulated himself and other democrats into a very bad position.
23 Dem Senators up for re-election in 2012, could lose in primaries, because of OBAMA cancer. Hard core liberals vote in primaries.
to homehk @ 46
Yes I am. But all the other appointees from Obama had said cut Social Security and even Stern was quoted as saying he was “open” to raising the retirement age (which is a de facto cut)
Add in all the Rs who had said the same thing which anyone paying attention would have recognized would happen, the deck was stacked from the beginning.
And they still couldn’t reach enough consensus to issue a formal recommendation even though many have tried to pretend they did
Fair point:
Alan Simpson, Erskine Bowles, Dave M. Cote, Andy Stern, Alice Rivlin, Ann M. Fudge, Rep. Paul Ryan, Rep Jeb Hensarling, Rep. Dave Camp, Rep. John Spratt, Rep. Xavier Becerra, Rep. Jan Schakowski, Sen. Judd Greg, Sen. Tom Coburn, Sen. Mike Crapo, Sen. Dick Durbin, Sen. Max Baucus, Sen. Kent Conrad.
Not one member of the Progressive Caucus and at least 80% are on record attacking social security “solvency” or the program itself. I’m not here to do your research for you but I’ll start you off with a link and you can find their statements for yourself. That is if you are after education and not argument.
Yeah but I think they only formed the ‘baggers for the cynical reason of plausible deniability.
We need to accept the fact that B.O. is a moderate republican… I would not be surprized at all if he were to concede something on SS. Please Dick Cheney is supporting the majority of his positions
homerhk,
Why does it have to have the label evil? Obama has earned contempt. He’s also guilty of enabling Bush’s war crimes and continuing all his own. If you want to call that evil, go ahead. But why must it be called evil when Obama feels the pains of billionaires, banks and wall street more than those of the middle and lower classes.
The American people are in desperate need and this President is failing the test. I’m as sorry that I am right as I am that it is going to hit people like you so hard when you finally realize Obama is nothing. He’s the perfect person to sell the American people into further slavery not only because he can do it with a smile, but he wears a Democratic label and worships the memory of Reagan.
Would evil do what Obama does while throwing a few crumbs our way? Those crumbs are mighty tasty when you have nothing, am I right? You can be happy with your crumbs.
Fixed it for you. This guy is to the right of anybody but W and he is arguable. And yeah, when Darth Cheney is supporting him, that’s a dead giveaway as if any others are needed.
I may be misunderstanding your comment, but Becerra and Schakowsky are members of the Progressive Caucus.
Yep, I misspoke and by the time I realized it, edit time was up. That’s what I get for being on two threads and hunting a job all at once. Thanks for the correction. :)
homerhk, how do you do it?
Daily you have to wake up, and defend what can not be defended.
Show us how Obama, Axelrod, Plouffe, are going to defend this commercial
US soldier comes on TV, he is standing in the middle of street.
US soldier says Obama Wall Street Buddies kick me and my family out of our homes. Now we live on this street as the new USA homeless.
US soldier says I thought Bin Laden was bad, Wall Street Bankers are worse.
Commercial goes off with a photo of OBAMA hugging his new chief of staff Bill Daley Wall Street banker.
tag line listed below:
“Do you think Obama loves the USA middle class? a lot of people don’t”
defend that Homerhk?
please speak now
First, I know all the members of the deficit commission; second, let me ask you this (not trying to argue, just trying to understand) – the deficit commission states that if nothing is done as at 2037 there will be an effective 22% cut across the board for social security benefits – do you agree with this? If not, can you point me to something that shows otherwise (because almost everything I’ve read says that social security is solvent till 2037 which is consistent with what the deficit commission says); third, I’ve read the recommendations from the deficit commission (NOT the co-chairs proposal) which contains a number of recommendations for social security and the only one that I could possible envisage as a “cut” is the raising of the retirement age by one year by 2050 and a further year by 2075. Given the increasing life expectancy, what is the objection to this, substantively?
I don’t think that will happen. Recall Iran. The Iranian government managed to effectively crush a very large social movement using threats, propaganda, police, military, and by cutting off communications. The security and surveillance apparatus in this country is significantly larger than that of Iran.
Don’t think the Internet could get cut off here? Iran did it, and they got 73 million people. Iran cut it down to the barest trickle, and then stopped even that trickle. No [protester] tweets come out of Iran any more. In fact, just yesterday, Ahmadinejad took direct control of their official news agency.
No problem. Best of luck on the job hunt.
First, the DEFICIT COMMISSION had no MANDATE to even discuss Social security as it is NOT PART OF THE DEFICIT! Want to discuss Social Security solvency? Fine! But don’t pretend that it is any part of the FEDERAL deficit as an excuse to butcher it. The deficit that SSI may or may not be operating under in the future, (depending on whether people decide to do the obvious thing and raise the contribution cap), is a separate issue from the federal deficit. Entirely.
I didn’t say that the internet controls the MOB
Iran is a sane nation compared to the USA
Let us not fool ourselves no nation on the planet earth has an armed population like the USA.
Iran can cut off the Internet, the USA can cut off the Internet
You can’t stop the bullets from flying, thus the USA problem
Also, no nation has as many educated pissed off employed people another big problem the USA has.
the USA is very unique, people in the USA don’t know how fragile our society really is.
cut the power off in New York CITY for a couple of hours not days, and all hell will break lose.
margaret, ok given that, what about my questions.
When you settle for crumbs, you only get crumbs.
Actually, I think the payroll holiday was a cut from 6% to 4% for individuals. Businesses still provide a 6% match, so really it’s 16% (2% out of 12% total) of the funding is coming from Congress.
Nevertheless, that 2% is a backdoor to guaranteed shenanigans. No one has played out the politics of getting that 2% back to guaranteed funding. Does anyone think the House is going to allow a 2% tax increase going into 2012? Somehow, that 2% will be gamed. I think it’s going to be an individual option with some of the money available for stock investments which would have Wall St drooling. It will be the unsavory compromise that Obama (looking appropriately pained but hopeful) will have to accept to maintain Soc Sec’s “solvency” when Obama was the person who let that backdoor open!
Social Security in crisis is a red herring. It is solvent (as you note) until at least 2037. If employment were to pick up, that number would go out much further. Removing the cap (currently at $106K) would stretch it out beyond any ability to predict reasonably.
But it would require the PTB to start raising taxes to cover the “special Treasury Notes” and that they will not do so we see “Social Security in crisis in 37 years) (When there are many many more pressing economic issues).
Your questions are irrelevant when discussing the federal deficit. I’ve answered them with that bit about the obvious solution being raising the contribution cap.
Your original question about what evidence is there that Obama wants to gut Social Security has been answered by appointing to a federal deficit commission, people whose stated mission in life is to do away with social security and by “putting social security on the table” to address a deficit in which it has no part. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that he’s not a fan if he’s putting social security on the table to solve a deficit which social security has played no role in and made no contribution to. That’s like getting me to pay your bills.
answer the question below, they are far more important than Social Security!
The USA is bleeding middle class jobs at a pace that is staggering. Since the year 2000, the United States has lost 10% of its middle class jobs. In the year 2000 there were about 72 million middle class jobs in the United States but today there are only about 65 million middle class jobs.
homerhk is this more important than Social Security yes or no?
2
In particular, the United States is absolutely hemorrhaging manufacturing jobs. Back in 1970, 25 percent of all jobs in the United States were manufacturing jobs. Today, only 9 percent of the jobs in the United States are manufacturing jobs.
homerhk is this more important than Social Security yes or no?
3
Our young people are supposed to be the hope of the future, but most of them are up to their eyeballs in student loan debt. Americans now owe more than $875 billion on student loans, which is more than the total amount that Americans owe on their credit cards.
homerhk is this more important than Social Security yes or no?
Homerhk, you need to be more like OBAMA, just ignore Social Security, Obama ignores the USA LACK OF REAL JOBS daily, and he smiles while he does it. :)
Hey here’s a novel idea! The more people working, the more paying into Social Security. Now, why hasn’t this really smart commission thought of that one? Betcha they don’t even factor anything like that in. Where do they get their numbers? Pull them out of their arse, is where they get their numbers. SS has nothing to do with the MIC deficit.
But weren’t those two nominated by Pelosi, not the President?
ok – forget about the deficit for a minute, what about the questions then. or is the complaint that it’s too soon to think about this since it’s ok until 2037?
That’s basically what I was trying to get at. It’s a clear example of Obama tag-teaming with the far right. Obama sets it up, the conservatives cut it down.
I’ve heard so many numbers, 8%, 6%, 2%, I even heard 33% someplace. I suppose the whole tax cuts for billionaires thing was designed with obfuscation built-in.
Get people working and turn the economy around before wasting millions on stupid commissions.
If an asteroid was hurtling towards the earth, would it make sense to set up a commission on the effects global warming will have in 30 years? Same logic.
doesn’t sound like you’ve even read the report. By the way it is a fiscal commission and says inside the report :”Ensure sustainable solvency for the next 75 years while reducing poverty among seniors. Reform Social Security for its own sake, and not for deficit reduction.”
But, again, I ask – leaving aside the purpose of the proposal of social security reform – can someone answer my questions on a substance basis?
I am going to ask you a simple political question
If you were a USA DEM senator up for re-election in 2012, would you cut Social Security or even talk about cutting Social Security?
would you homerhk? :)
that the question that everyone in DC will ask?
I’ve answered your question. Twice now. I’ll indulge you and answer it a third time but by the fourth, I’m going to consider you a disruptive troll: Raise the fucking cap on contributions. Problem solved. Or if you don’t like that one, there have been some other excellent suggestions like stopping the policies that are sending middle class jobs overseas. Problem solved again. That’s the last time I’m going to answer that question.
Somebody has you just don’t want to listen. Social Security would solve itself if MORE PEOPLE ARE WORKING. What part of that do you and your buddys at the “Commission” not understand?
don’t play games with us!
you probably thought everyone in the USA wanted the OBAMA/Bob Dole Health Care Bill more than Jobs.
just answer our questions
do you think any Dem Senator up for re-election in 2012 wants to cut Social Security or even talk about cutting social security?
yes or no
Guess they can’t understand without a sheet of talking points Margaret. Perhaps he should just tune into ol’ Rush Limprash doing his Chinese impersonations for awhile.
Which raises the question, why fix something that does not contribute to the problem as stated when there are far higher problems causing the bleeding.
Rather like making sure you have your fire insurance bill ready to pay for the next ten years as the fire is creeping up the outside wall
I guess not. If this is the caliber of staffers in DC, it’s no wonder we are so very fucked as a nation.
Laughing! :)
you may be on to something there
the staffers are like their bosses DUMB
LMAO! And crying at the same time. Oh. My. God. For Dense.
David:
I am unable to get the “separate poll” to Celinda Lake link to work.
SS is self-funded and has nothing to do with the general budget. If SS is projected to have a problem some time in the future what on earth does that have to do with the deficit?
Where is your concern about the real contributions to the deficit like military spending, corporate subsidies and tax breaks?
As far as SS is concerned, as Margaret said, there are other solutions to a potential SS shortfall other than making people work longer or reducing benefits. Do you really think it’s preferable to make people in dangerous and backbreaking jobs work longer?
What is really bugging you? The deficit? A future SS shortfall? Or is it criticism of Obama that is sticking in your craw?
Barry couldn’t care less if it hurts him a bit. He intends to run against Divine Sarah so he figures he can please his backers and pals on Wall st. and still get enough fools to vote for him against Sarah and he’s probably right.
I’m afraid you’re wasting your time. This is pointless. I don’t know whether homerhk is stupid or s/he thinks the rest of us are but either way, I don’t see any point in wasting more time on this topic with such a one.
this is all done to appease the bond markets for treasuries.
The Muni Bond market is about to implode and that is going to effect all the other bond markets….Including the feds ability to print money like they are currently doing.
If they can wipe out 2.8 TRILLION of bonds in Social Security, That is going to keep the Low Tax rates and investment income for the banks and the very wealthy…
Cheerleaders cheer. There is a time for them but they don’t make for responsible citizens in times like these.
You are correct, of course. Still, it would be nice if homerhk would answer my questions instead of shifting the subject to yet another variation on a theme.
In any event, I think I know the answer to the last question.
why do you think they are all retiring with their golden parachut and health care intact…
The ones running for re election, even some of the R’s are going to loose….Just watch
It’s long past time we deflated the idea that moron Sarah would be worse than a DINO.
Any democrat or far right loon republican that talks social security cuts instead of social security reform will pay a dear price at the polls. Does it require reform? maybe, but any congressman that yels “cuts” better learn how to pack… a suitcase. I have personnaly only heard about three democrats talk about social security reform but as their two year terms start coming up for re-election, that talk stops in a hurry. This is a not issue in my opinion. People over 65 do two things, collect their checks and vote…..
I’ll be voting third party or write-in, but, if I were to have to choose, I’d take an unabashed right-winger over a lying, hypocritical, right-winger who says progressive things to get elected.
No surprises here. Cut SS you are done. Jobs are still number one even after all the shit about repealing HCR. But guess what,if the repugs win the next time around they will run the table.
This is a no brainer.
But I had also thought it was a no brainer that the party that passes a law requiring Americans to buy health insurance would suffer grievously at the polls!
So what do I know.
No more calls, folks, we have a winner.
You were right, and they did suffer at the polls. And they’re about to suffer more. Let the pain continue.
I’m not so sure that people will be asleep at the wheel in regards to Social Security and Medicare. In 2007, the Wall Street Journal had an article about retirement in which the following was stated:
“A column by Jonathan Clements in today’s Journal points out that just 66% of workers say that they or their spouse have any retirement savings at all. It also says that almost half of those saving for retirement have less than $25,000 salted away — nothing close to the recommended $1 million nest egg that Mr. Clements cited in a past column. The piece also says that retirees are encouraged to delay Social Security to get a larger benefit, but more than half of seniors choose to take Social Security at 62, the earliest possible age. “People value the bird in the hand, and that stream of income in the future just doesn’t seem that significant,” says Alicia Munnell, director of Boston College’s Center for Retirement Research.”
This was written BEFORE the financial crisis and at that time, 34% of workers had NO retirement savings period. AND, almost 50% of those WITH retirement savings have less than $25,000 saved.
The point I’m trying to make is that the vast majority of people near or currently retired NEED Social Security and Medicare to survive in the future. So, I don’t think they will be asleep at the wheel on this issue.
Margaret et al, I am not a DC staffer – I am an Englishman interested in US politics. I don’t have a vote (although as a citizen of the world, I think we all should have some say however small on who is President of the most powerful nation in the world). I don’t have any dog in this fight really just trying to understand the increasingly hysterical tone here. As I understand it, the fiscal commission (not the federal deficit commission, btw) also proposes raising the taxes as you have suggested. It also proposes insofar as I understand a slight reduction in benefits (implemented a long time hence) for the more wealthy; the rich paying their fair share was something I thought was important to progressives. I asked a question about the raise in the retirement age by one year by 2050 and by another year by 2075 an no-one seems to have addressed it.
I can take the point that there are other things to concentrate on – in fact the main focus of the fiscal commission appears to be directed to cutting spending, including military spending rather than SS. The fact is that government has to do many many things at once – there are obviously many priorities. I just don’t think it’s so objectionable to think about the long term as well as the short term.
In any event, regardless of what the fiscal commission has reported, Obama hasn’t publicly embraced any cuts as far as I can see so I think that all this is a little bit premature.
as for stupidity, I’m sorry but posts saying that Palin wouldn’t be worse than Obama are the epitome of stupid.
just how much can they steal. with Obama’s help they will succeed and raiding the Social Security Trust Fund.
The Rich has always wanted to get that obligation out of the way. this is all such common knowledge, most people feel “oh What can i do and then watch American Idol. the Seniors vote, like those crazy Teabaggers, Seniors make lots of noise. and Vote.
this will be most interesting to see. Obama legacy of undoing Social Security will be remembered as such.
all this greed just so the Rich can steal every Government penny not spent on them directly.
I disagree. I think they’d take that opportunity to design a disaster captialism plan that would funnel the money that formally went into the Medicare program into their hands and allow them to disburse it to former Medicare recipients according to new privatized rules. Didn’t you get the memo? Privatization cuts costs.
To All…I was watching an interview with Eric Alterman on the DR show and they were discussing Alterman’s new book…you see Obama REALLY wants to do the right thing for average Americans and make good on his promises but it is the big bad culture he lives in that prevents him from his job! If was not for the big bad Fox news saying all those mean things about Obama he could make the changes we need…the bankers/maffa called Obama those names and he HAD to bring in Summers and Timmy G…so you see guys we need to understand poor Obama he is doing to best he can do with all those meanies around him!
Eric…I ain’t buying it!!! He is bought and paid for along with the GOP and most of the Dems…I will not vote for anyone who cuts SS Medicare..
Hysterical? That’s rich. For someone with no dog in the fight, you sure have been barking a lot.
I guess you missed my reply @105.
I think the Englishman interested in US politics hasn’t been paying much attention to US politics the last couple of years.
Really? How so?
Stupid as in someone getting bent out of shape about Americans complaining about US politicians?
Or stupid as in someone unable to distinguish the media gadfly Palin with the politician Palin restrained by real-world politics? A politician who would be resisted by the Dems at every turn?
Once the only safety net for Americans left is damaged, there will be no reason to vote Obama. There will be no significant difference at all between the parties.
It will be the final evidence that both parties serve the same master and neither care for the people at all.
So why vote democrat and pretend there is a chance when there is not.
If that is true, it would barely matter who wins any election.
The nation will have proven itself to be dedicated only to the greed of its politicians and a future as a true 3d world nation of poor and slaves
OK…..now here is a part of all these money experts that I don’t understand, and they all use pretty much the same numbers regardless where you live. Every money expert says you need a minimum of 1 million saved to retire. I’ve read it on far too many occasions. Now an average person earns 40,000 or less per year. That’s reality. So, after retirement most people in a normal world, have their homes paid for (or should I say at one time). So the main living expense is gone. Next, food. Elderly do not eat/spend as much on food, as anyone younger. Prob half as much. Finally, if you retire at 65, and are fortunate enough to live to be 80, that’s 15 years. 15X40,000 is??? NOWHERE near a million dollars and that is living very high on the hog for a senior!! Now in the US, you have the health insurance vultures that could eat that nestegg up pretty quick, but most western money experts claim the same amount for most nations, including Canada where healthcare is equally paid for by all. So, why do they want you to save that much, and leave it with them for your entire life?????
Make that @91.