David, massive economic growth is now automatic in the US, since the BLS started measuring inflation as growth. Proof of this comes from the fact that GDP has been increasing on “increased sales” despite the fact that volumes are down, ergo, all that happened were prices rose, and less actual units were sold.

Of course, this doesn’t change reality on the ground. It just makes people very, very angry.

And for a look at how spending cuts work at the present juncture, see the UK GDP report (not fudged like the US one) today.

Well if this new whachamacallit infrastructure bank is off budget because it merely manages private equity with government only as guarantor, I guess he can make the cuts and call it growth at the same time. If this sounds like a fantasy to you, imagine how flimsy it sounds to me./s

How this spending freeze would interface with expected calls for “new investment” in education, research and development and infrastructure, which comprise some of the biggest items in the non-security discretionary spending part of the budget, is about as clear as mud.

This is a glaring contradiction, and most American’s are either too stupid or too complacent to care.

As for the 2-4% growth in 2011 that I’ve been seeing touted all over the toobz the last few days, kiss that shit goodbye.

You’ve got to spend money to make money, Obummer. Austerity is for failing businesses, not indebted governments. I dropped out of highschool and I know this shit. Why doesn’t our POTUS?

Do people still want to predict massive economic growth this year?

No.

The only people predicting massive economic growth are economists who tend to be wrong all the time.

It’s just the MSM assisting Obama in his goal to “get American feeling good again”.

OK, so we vote for a Republican candidate, we get a Republican president (maybe a lot further to the right than advertised). If we vote for a Democratic candidate, we STILL get a Republican president.

300 Billion to the top 2%.

Again,

300 Billion to the top 2%.

How many cuts in vitally needed programs will it take to replace those funds? As if ‘non-discretionary’ has any meaning.

America’s new Economic Plan:

Hey look! That sick, dying little old man over there still has five cents in his hand! GET HIM!!

and also puts some of the burden of those cuts on soldiers who will have new co-pays and burdens for their health care

Has this screw the troops measure passed yet or is it already law?

Bush is down in Crawford laughing his nuts off. He’s really enjoying his 3rd term.

Their haircuts seem kinda similar:)

I really want to vote for someone else in 2012, but will another democrat be able to take Obama down? and also if Obama wins the primary as expected, will he even lose to a republican? I dont think, the current crop of repub candidates will come close to winning against the President.

Is electing progrossives to congress the only hope we have?

Can’t wait for the State of Austerity…

Dumbass

What brought on the L.A. Riots a few years back? A few individuals were acquitted? Seems a bit extreme/excessive to riot over that. I saw an article that said 54 people died over that 3 day period. I’m not sure if the public is unable to lash out.

Trojan horse

Barry’s got a big ole hunk of soap…

As the Democrat party apparently has no one willing to run against the corporate fascist currently in the White House, we can conclude that the party has itself become a corporate fascist party.

GDP is rising only because non-reported inflation is rising. Nominal GDP is up marginally, real GDP is not. There is no “recovery”.

Of course Obama wants to cut spending, how else can he pay for the tax cuts he happily agreed to, which will get him more support in 2012 as he “moderates”? It’s all about Obama, his power, his ego.

We have a Zero in the White House and the Dems will do all they can to keep him there, as “winning” and obtaining power/influence/money for themselves are all that they really care about. They pretend to care about the people, but their actions show what really matters to them.

Third party is the only way out of this descent to endless wars without reason, increasing poverty and unemployment, and taking away our civil rights.

Without a doubt…or I dunno…revolution?

Obama should just announce he is changing parties tonight. Not one whit of difference anymore.

A few months from now we will get the usual “economist surprised…” at the slow rate of growth. “Economist surprised..” that the unemployment rate is still high. “Economist surprised…”

For people who supposedly study this stuff for a living, they sure get surprised often.

The best ‘surprised’ economist is Ben Bernanke. The guy studied the “Great Depression” as his thesis and still couldn’t see the shit happening right before his eyes.

I dont understand what his path to reelectin is? Does he hope the R(z) won’t bother running a candiate because he is their candidate? Or does he really believe the ‘vote 4 ME! I’m not as bad as the other guy’ slogan will work?

Watch this…Ben Stein pick Obama as leading Repub:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U-L6EmY7EM

You don’t vote for Obama under any circumstances. Period. Or any of the rest of them. Have some pride.
Chris Hedges http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/where_liberals_go_to_feel_good_20110124/:
“Act I is the burst of enthusiasm for a Democratic candidate who, through clever branding and public relations, appears finally to stand up for the interests of citizens rather than corporations. Act II is the flurry of euphoria and excitement. Act III begins with befuddled confusion and gnawing disappointment, humiliating appeals to the elected official to correct “mistakes,” and pleading with the officeholder to return to his or her true self. Act IV is the thunder and lightning scene. Liberals strut across the stage in faux moral outrage, delivering empty threats of vengeance. And then there is Act V. This act is the most pathetic. It is as much farce as tragedy. Liberals—frightened back into submission by the lunatic fringe of the Republican Party or the call to be practical—begin the drama all over again.”
Pathetic.

Remember, they drove the car into the ditch. Don’t give them the keys back.

Quit screwing around and raise fucking taxes, for crying out loud. They’re at an almost 60 year low. Raise corporate taxes by 3%, tax off-shore corporate income, raise the limit on income over $300,000, raise the income cap subject to the payroll tax, institute a .25% per transaction tax on stock, bond, and commodities trades, and many more.

They are choosing not to do this when they could be rolling in revenue.

Appreciate the President taking the first step to curb government spending. IS it enough? Absolutely not, but it does show a willingness to address a problem that has been ignore far too long. The faster we get money back into the hands of citizens and private industry the faster we turn this country around and position for growth in the coming decades.

Dream on pal. Ever hear about Japan’s “Lost Decade”? It was caused by just this sort of behavior. Only it will be worse here because wealth is far more concentrated at the top here than it was in Nihon.

yawn…..

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2010/08/17/mike-mayo-spells-out-why-us-wont-have-japans-lost-decade/

That puerile “analysis” is your argument? What Mayo is saying is that there won’t be a lost decade for banks and I’m sure there won’t be with the banker’s best buddy ever in The White House.

Yeah, remember how the economy just SURGED after Bush put OUR money back into the hands of a select few “citizens and private industry”? It gave us our present booming economy.

The Wall Street Journal says whatever Murdoch tells them too. Try reading Krugman for some facts once in a while.

Krugman? really? please educate yourself on the issues.

Sounds like Obama is doing a McCain on us by claiming that we are just in a psychological recession (listen to link below). So all we need to do is have happy thoughts or take prozac and the economy will rebound. But if prozac or happy thoughts don’t rebound the economy, electroshock therapy is bound to do it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivroxPyG-IE

No kidding, esp because, while we’ve got the third term of W (on steroids), Bush can hang out in his fancy-schmancy Big D homestead and drink all day long and do nothing and get paid big fat buck$$$$ and no one gives a sh*t what W’s doing. Oh and once in a while W can be trotted out amongst his slavering minions to get a standing ovation.

Yeah: nice life for the upper 1% brought to you by the Bush Family and their minions.

Members of Congress: 535

US Citizens (2010): 310,232,863

Why are we tolerating these traitor politicians?

The faster we get money back into out of the hands of citizens and into the hands of the upper 2% including private industry the faster we turn this country around and position for growth in the coming decades the nation moves towards feudal serfdom for most US taxpayers and egregious wealth for the upper 1%. Obama’s austerity measures oughta work out just fine for that purpose.

Fixed it for ya…

banks make money by lending….which means banks will do better when money is being spent. To be good news for bank it means it was first good news for individuals and private enterprise

‘Tis the season to be jolly, troll-lo-lo-lo-lo-lo-lo-lo-low!

Don’t like Krugman? Try a little Stiglitz, then!

http://www.truth-out.org/turbulence-ahead67100

Really great question (no snark). What’s our next step (again: no snark). Doesn’t matter who we elect, esp at the federal level. This is what happens every time.

One suggestion was to dramatically increase the House of Representatives to make it more truly representative (and have more members per population), but I won’t hold my breath for that to happen.

Another step is finding a way to repeal or override the effects of the SCOTUS decision in Citizens United.

Good one…… But is is the never ending entitlements that has caused the end to the middle class, not corporations or the “rich”. Instead of benefiting the lower class these entitlements have done nothing but make them lazy and allow them to fall to the wayside rather than keep pace with an evolving economy.

You mean another guy with no real industry experience? You need to step away from the academics and actually look to some of the people making decisions.

Yeah, how dare people actually want to have some level of retirement income and actually want to retire in their 60s!

We should all be content to drop dead on the job right?

Or no, wait, we all need to be responsible for our own retirements and invest $2K per year we make from our minimum wage job into a 401K (since the unions and defined benefit plans have all but been destroyed)

You’re barking up the wrong tree here. No offense intended (quite honestly), but spouting out the same old same old tired lying rightwing talking points are totally devoid of meaning for me (and probably for most who come here regularly).

With all due respect, if you’re going to say stuff like – it’s the poor who have driven this country to the brink – then please provide me with credible links to actual *facts* that prove this theory.

My questions to you:

How many poor people – who are so darn lazy – have off-shored US jobs to third world countries? And how many jobs have these egregiously lazy poor people off-shored?

Then, how many jobs have very wealthy Americans, like Bill Gates, Carly Fiorina, Jeff Imelt, Meg Whitman, David Koch (to name but a few), have off-shored US jobs to third world countries, and how many US jobs have each one of these US citizens off-shored???

So, lemme see: some incredibly LAZY poor brown person “ripped off” the so-called welfare system for something like – to be very generous – a few thousand dollars.

And Carly Fiorina off-shored over 30,000 US workers’ jobs to third world countries resulting in the annual loss of $millions per year in terms of US worker salaries, etc.

Lemme see here. Carly Fioriana v. Pedra C. MexicanAlien??? Guess I know who’s caused more damage to our nation and our economy… and it ain’t the LAZY minority….

Don’t know, but it’s clearer than ever that politicians can’t be trusted. There are a few who can, but it doesn’t add up to effective Government in any way. There is no chance that anything of value will be overturned with this current group of criminals. Seems to me this Government is not what was outlined in the Constitution. It is tangentially related, without any sort of conscience assumed when the Constitution was written. Therefore, this Government should not be honored. Is that rebellion? Probably, but it is what the Constitution was based on. Don’t tell me it’s ok to give 300 Billion to the top 2%. I don’t care how it’s framed, that’s a crime. Manning is being tortured, that’s a crime. They’re breaking the law, regardless our corrupt Government trying to state that it is legal. It’s not. This environment of pretending nothing’s happening is very similar (perhaps identical) to what was occurred in England pre- revolution. Who is Obama? He’s a liar in a suit who smiles a lot and gives speeches. Why is that our problem, there are millions of us and a handful of them. They are unwilling to do their job and need to be removed (peacefully) and replaced by something, I don’t know what. This system is not working. Those who replace these crooks are clearly crooks themselves and boldfaced liars. Americans citizens aren’t stupid and have a massive majority. We should not be suffering because 500+ idiots have no conscience.

You’re right, what was I think we should be at the mercy of the federal government from cradle to grave…..

Try taking a little personal responsibility.

How do you do it?

Defending evil is not a good life choice

“Some of the people that have been hit the hardest by all this have been children. According to one recent study, approximately 21 percent of all children in the United States are living below the poverty line in 2010 – the highest rate in 20 years.”

Do you hate the children of the USA headedwest?

you must live in a house with no mirrors, because it would be hard for you to look at yourself in a mirror

Or no, wait, we all need to be responsible for our own retirements and invest $2K per year we make from our minimum wage job into a 401K (since the unions and defined benefit plans have all but been destroyed)

heh… yeah, exactly. And good effen luck with that 401(k) plan nowadays… there were many who *did* save up their own pensions in 401(k) or similar plans, and then in 2008: pffffft! Up in smoke, along with the value of their homes (many of which were bought responsibly with good money down).

Fictional fantasy land is a nice to place to hang out in for a while. Too bad that reality, which has a leftwing bias, intrudes on a regular basis.

I would love to take personal responsibility. As it is, the only job I’ve been able to find in the last six years is a part time minimum wage position (that has been a godsend as small as it is).

So when you’re nearly 60 years old and have been shut out of the job market for a few years, you can come back and tell me all about how much personal responsibility you’ve taken fro seeing your job go over seas or to some person just out of college.

Oh, yes! People love living on $900 a month, and waiting 5 hours at free clinics, and living with no cell phones or cable because their credit is thrashed, and having no bank account, or savings, or car. No future for their children. No college education! People absolutely LOVE having next to nothing.

Do people still want to predict massive economic growth this year?

Mourning in America

Hey: I’ve been *contributing* to Soc Sec & Medicare since I was 16 years old. Now that I’m getting to “a certain age,” I simply do not “get” how expecting to get back a return on my investment is “expecting the federal government to take care of me from cradle to grave.”

How does that compute?

The federal govt has not “taken care of me” at least in the ways that you appear to imply. I’ve worked hard all my life; paid for my own education myself; I’ve been a responsible tax payer (and I don’t *mind* paying taxes); and I do have my savings.

But why am I lazy or whatever for *expecting* to get back what I paid into Soc Sec??

Do you even seriously consider a question like that?

It doesn’t compute to anyone with a conscience.

I didn’t blame the poor. I blamed the federal government for creating an environment that took away people’s incentive to learn, create, evolve…

How many poor people – who are so darn lazy – have off-shored US jobs to third world countries? And how many jobs have these egregiously lazy poor people off-shored?

What is wrong with off shoring jobs? Plenty of firm’s outside the U.S. offshore jobs here. It is called taking advantage of what you do most efficiently. It makes sense and is why the U.S. is one of the most competitive nations in the world economy.

Then, how many jobs have very wealthy Americans, like Bill Gates, Carly Fiorina, Jeff Imelt, Meg Whitman, David Koch (to name but a few), have off-shored US jobs to third world countries, and how many US jobs have each one of these US citizens off-shored???

Again, why does it matter?

So, lemme see: some incredibly LAZY poor brown person “ripped off” the so-called welfare system for something like – to be very generous – a few thousand dollars.

Theft?? And why are you bringing race into it? you must have some real issues of self loathing.

And Carly Fiorina off-shored over 30,000 US workers’ jobs to third world countries resulting in the annual loss of $millions per year in terms of US worker salaries, etc.

I guess those U.S. workers should have either taken a pay cut or offered a service that could not be provided more cheaply over seas.

Lemme see here. Carly Fioriana v. Pedra C. MexicanAlien??? Guess I know who’s caused more damage to our nation and our economy… and it ain’t the LAZY minority…

So you’re fine with illegal aliens even though they are taking U.S. jobs in areas like construction?

I’d just like to add…

seeing your job go over seas or to some person just out of college for less money and no benefits.

Again, why does it matter?

This matters, oh vaunted, uber-genius economist, because for every person NOT earning a wage in this country, that wage bracket shrinks in both size and spending power. This in turn causes a cyclical downward spiral in which people with less earning power and smaller buying power are forced to shop in places which carry products manufactured overseas. This increase in demand for overseas goods results in a loss of MORE jobs at domestic manufacturing and distribution facilities.

In short, if you give a job to China, you give the money from that job to China. Show me how much money we’re funneling into China for goods purchased every year versus their consumption of US manufactured goods. I’ll show you the biggest fucking discrepancy in the world.

Again, why does it matter?

If you can’t see why it matters that the upper 2% of this country have off-shored thousands upon thousands of US worker jobs to third world countries, then there’s little point in having this discussion.

You’re hung up about the alleged (and it’s only “alleged” because you provide me with not facts whatsoever) “theft” by some poor person of supposed govt welfare programs, when such an alleged “theft” amounts to peanuts.

But you’re perfectly fine with US citizens off-shoring many US worker jobs to third world countries, which has robbed this country of $millions.

And it’s beyond facile to suggest that the US workers should have “accepted a lower wage.” WHY? Why do you find the lowering of US workers’ wages an “acceptable” alternative. And in the cases that I mentioned in my earlier post, the US workers simply weren’t given that option anyway (which I believe you well know).

There’s no way to reason you, if that’s your perspective.

Good luck.

It is insane that such a move comes from a Democrat, let alone a person of color who is charged with remembering how hard his forebears struggled to curtail systemic social, economic and physical abuse, and whose partial success allowed him to become president.

Freezing federal employee wages alone might be responsible, were it not for the context. We’re still in a great recession. Deflation is a greater threat than inflation. This isn’t for now, for a year or even three, but for five years. That’s longer than most presidents sit in the Oval Office. Lord knows what economic conditions will prevail over that time – Obama clearly doesn’t, nor do his advisers – but recent history suggests this freeze will seriously harm the middle class that form the bulk of federal workers.

This political, not economic, ploy by Obama buys into the Republican frame that all government is bad; its work needn’t be done, at least not by profit motive-free public employees; and that such employees inherently make too much money and have jobs that are too cushy. Most of all, it attacks them for having credible benefits, including a living wage at retirement. Retirement benefits are no more than a deferral of what would otherwise be a portion of current wages to a later period (retirement) when they will be more needed. But that’s the sort of thing that the government and society have allowed private businesses to discard as if it were an empty print cartridge.

This will have many effects. It will drive the most productive employees out of public service. The most opportunistic, though, will seek political appointments and, thus, a pass through the revolving door. It will lower the standard of living for government employees, both now and in retirement. By lowering current income, it will lower the prospects of their children to attend increasingly expensive schools and colleges, thus lowering the glass ceiling, allowing only the children of the already wealthy to pass through.

With their most productive workers and leaders gone or demoralized, government agencies will be easier prey for political leaders to sway or gut. The frailties and inexperience of those leaders will be less subject to challenge by the expertise that will have been lost or frustrated. Simultaneously, it will lower the productivity of whole departments and make a self-fulfilling prophecy of the recurrent false Republican claim that government can do nothing as effectively as the private sector.

Among its many other consequences is one especially dear to the hearts of Republicans and their billionaire patrons. Government agencies will be less able to interpret and enforce essential, public-protecting regulation of their businesses. Not coincidentally, it will make public service less attractive in general, and a less attractive alternative to the increasingly poor working conditions and pay offered by the private sector.

This is as stark a win-lose proposition for Democrats as one could imagine. As he always does, Mr. Obama offers it up gratis. He volunteers it without demanding strings or a quid pro quo of any kind from those who desperately want his administration to fail and much of America to be impoverished. It’s not a rational policy, it’s not competent negotiating, it’s not change a rational person could want or believe in.

So you’re OK with the businesses that hire undocumented aliens because they will work for cheap and not complain about having to follow the safety laws? After all, it’s not as if those undocumented workers are forcing the businesses to hire them.

I guess those U.S. workers should have either taken a pay cut or offered a service that could not be provided more cheaply over seas.

This is rich. With inflation steadily increasing, people should be forced to take a pay cut? While corporate profits have steadily increased? This is not proportionate. This is the shrinking of one class of citizen for the bloating of another.

And offer a service that could not be provided cheaper overseas? FML. Name one service that can’t be provided cheaper in India or China. Wages are lower across the board.

Why don’t we just outsource our Congress? We could get it cheaper overseas and we wouldn’t have to give them health benefits or retirement packages! Plus, Chinese people are far more productive!

It’s a great way for the US to be more profitable!

Thanks, and I notice that this person didn’t bother to answer my question because there’s no rightwing talking point that can be used to dispute what I said.

In other words, it’s like saying that I’ve been saving money in an FDIC insured account, but when I turn 62, suddenly the govt tells me to get stuffed, the money’s not available to me because they (the govt) decided to use in order to give yet more tax cuts to ridiculously wealthy citizens, instead.

And then some rightwing conservative can come trolling by to tell me that I just want to live in the “nanny state” for having the ridiculous leftwing effrontry to *expect to get my money back with interest* from the savings account that I paid into all of my life.

Sheesh. Amazing.

I’ve said it before: don’t expect the Tea Party to get up in arms about the gutting of Soc Sec and Medicare. Those fools will clap and cheer while they stand around watching the uber-wealthy *steal* their hard-earned money. So satisfying to watch the wealthy steal from you. The dog forbid some poor person should get food stamps “unfairly.”

take a pay cut or lose your job??????

for most people that is an easy decision but for people that feel as entitled as you would rather the government take care of you while you sit on your couch and post on firedog….

Why should they accept a lower wage? Because what their demanding is not competitive in the global economy. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

I think it’s also worth pointing out that I just filed my taxes, and in fiscal year 2010 I paid 2 times more money into SS than I did into federal income taxes.

We pay for our retirement. It just happens to be the government who runs the fund. And they’ve pulled a fucking Bernie Madoff and absconded with our money.

Exactly. Watch the documentary “Food, Inc,” which is available on NetFlix and possibly also at your local video store.

In it, you will see actual footage of US businesses going into Central and South America specifically to recruit undocumented workers in order that they work in unsafe and unhealthy conditions at very low wages with no benefits. And when Immigration comes around, the undocumented workers are shipped back “home,” usually (conveniently) losing their pay, and the business owners aren’t even tapped on the wrist, much less fined or jailed.

That goes on far more than people imagine.

The other side of the coin is that a lot of undocumented workers actually pay into Soc Sec and Medicare and never get to use it.

Am I in favor wholesale of undocumented workers coming into the USA? No, but I’ve always said, if the law was applied to the business owners fairly, they would stop hiring undocumented workers at low pay. And if less businesses were hiring undocumented workers, then less undocumented people would come into the USA.

Conservatives wish to place all of the blame on the poor. The rich and the corporations are pristine innocents who are to be venerated at every turn. I don’t get it.

Have you gone to your boss to demand a pay cut?

Except that it’s not true. Small point, I realize, for those with an authoritarian follower’s mind, but there it is.

The corporatists have had their way with our economy since the Reagan Dark Age. The result is the current global economic crisis, a virtual depression for everyone except the thieves of Wall Street and their political puppets. Supply-side voodoo economics has been proven to be disastrously, catastrophically wrong in every respect. Doing more of the same cannot reasonably be expected to suddenly produce a different result today.

People with “industry experience” are dedicated to making themselves rich, which is NOT the same as having an understanding of macroeconomics. Your fat-cat buddies are only focused on their personal wealth without regard for the well-being of an entire society and the broader impacts globally. Our government and our President need to consider a much larger picture and plan further ahead than next quarter’s profits. The United States is NOT a for-profit corporation. The rules which apply to making corporations profitable are not applicable when the task is to make a great nation sustainably prosperous.

Dismissing economists like Krugman & Stiglitz in favor of thieving gluttonous corporate fat-cats is approximately like dismissing the findings of climate scientists and the IPCC regarding global warming. Taking appropriate actions to address impending calamity for the sake of the nation and the world might very well cut into the short-term profits of the corporatists, but it is still the right thing to do for people alive today and for future generations.

In most cases where the jobs have been off-shored, the workers have NOT been given any choice. They’re fired/laid off with little to no notice, and no one’s given them an option of lower pay.

That’s a nice pipe dream; it almost never happens that way in reality.

…competitive in the global economy.

Ah the so-called free market effect.

Except it is not free. Most every other country that is getting those US jobs is subsidizing either their own businesses or offering their own workers to be poisoned or killed on the job because of the lack of safety rules. Just so companies like WalMart, Nike, HP and all the others can squeeze another half point of profit.

Not that they weren’t previously making a profit, just that it wasn’t quite as large a profit as the banksters wanted to see.

I’m actually sitting at my desk at work, earning a fairly decent wage.

As onitgoes pointed out, most, if not all, of the tech layoffs over the last 10 years were not offered the opportunity to take a paycut. They were simply let go.

I don’t feel entitled. I was on welfare once and had to be convinced to do it by my family. I saw not taking welfare as a matter of personal pride. Do you know how I was finally convinced to take that assistance for 5 months while I found work? My father pointed out that I’d been paying into that welfare fund for my entire working life, just in case something like this happened.

I understand the gripe about people who have never worked and are on welfare, so maybe we need to adjust the qualifications for the social programs. However, not having them and simply leaving families in the streets to starve is just fucking wrong. It’s unconscienable.

Am I in favor wholesale of undocumented workers coming into the USA? No, but I’ve always said, if the law was applied to the business owners fairly, they would stop hiring undocumented workers at low pay. And if less businesses were hiring undocumented workers, then less undocumented people would come into the USA.

I’ve never understood the wingnut “terrorize the mexicans! Deport them all!”

Why are we trying to change the ideas of Mexican or Central American citizens when we have US citizens enabling the behavior? Where’s the responsibility in that?

Exactly. And bewailing that dreaded liberals wish to live in the “nanny state” is a load of crap that neatly sidesteps the truth of the matter.

And attempting to “privatize” Soc Sec now is b.s. because, while Wall St at one time used to be a reasonably sound place to invest, securities as an investment instrument is like going to a casino. Wall St is a ponzi scheme, and as we all know: at the casino, the house always wins.

But any possible problems with soc sec can be easily fixed by raising the income cap, anyway.

The next 2 years some people, if lucky, will be able to merely tread water, some people sadly will go under and a very tiny number will make out like bandits. Of course Mr. Bipartisan with the complicity of a corrupt and complicit corporate media will convince the dumbeoisie that all is fine and things are getting better for everyone. Last night PBS carried a documentary on the Orange Revolution in the Ukraine. There the people were willing to stand up for reform and the rule of law. In the U.S. most people can’t get off their fat asses to change the channel.

There is no responsibility in the rightwing notion of undocumented workers. The onus is placed soley and ONLY on the undocumented worker, while absolutely NO responsiblity is assigned to the business owner who hires these undoc. workers. NONE.

Do illegal aliens bear responsibility for breaking the law by entering the country and working illegally? YES. Nearly all (if not all) liberals feel the way I do.

The difference is that leftwing people ALSO assign responsibility to the business owner (including those who hire nannies, gardeners, house cleaners, maids, etc) for hiring the undocumented worker. Usually such folks are *methodically and deliberately hired” in order to pay them lower wages.

As with Meg Whitman, when she ran for CA Gov, conservatives assign no responsibility to the business owner who hires the undocumented worker, and therein lies the problem. It’s such a giant huge sucking lie to lay blame solely on the undocumented worker. worthless arguement and attempting to deport all undocumented workers in the USA back to wherever is economically not feasible. Another conservative pipe dream not based in reality.

Right, let’s just take all of the money out of the bank accounts of the politicians who claim it’s legal and see how they react. I suspect they won’t like it. It’s all become a game, but citizens have the power. 300,000,000+ vs 500+.

Agree, esp about not getting off our fat asses to do a d*mn thing about this mess.

right on; I’m with you there.

But any possible problems with soc sec can be easily fixed by raising the income cap, anyway.

*finger on nose*

How about this, HeadedWest – why do I have to pay a social security tax out of ALL of my wages, when the wealthiest Americans only have to pay a sociel security tax on a small fraction of their wages.

IOW, why does Bill Gates pay the same amount of taxes as me, when he makes thousands of times more money than I do?

Why does Warren Buffet freely admit that he pays far less in taxes than his secretaries??? And Buffet freely admits: that’s not right.

You pay the same amount in taxes as Bill Gates? Some how I doubt that…

Gotta run to my second job because I’m such a LAZY librul fireblogger that I have 2 jobs (yes: very grateful, very lucky, I know it)… such a lazy slacker expecting the “nanny” welfare state to, I don’t know: give back to me *what I put into it*??? The very idea! For a serf to want their hard-earned money back! Why, why, why: who do you think you are??? a rich person???? /s

Good luck, firepups, esp with Barry Zero’s SOTU. Fortunately I’ll be *working* and will, thankfully, miss his lying lies. I’ll come back later for the recap.

Don’t let the bastards grind ya down!!!! 8>)

Probably more likely than you imagine. See my comment about Warren Buffet who freely admitted he paid less in taxes than any ONE of his secretaries. You might do well to investigate this for yourself.

Less percentage than his secretary

pretty big difference….

Why do you have to be such a smartass? I was referring to the social security tax.

Still fucking wrong…

He also pays higher taxes on his half million dollar home in Nebraska than he does on his multi-million dollar home in coastal California.

Federal and state tax regimes have glaring holes, poked by Republicans, that make life enormously comfy for the well-to-do, but which leave bus drivers, accountants, store clerks and teachers to pay the difference from their own meager incomes. But woe betide the local, state or federal government that doesn’t provide a bail-out for Wall Street or a real estate or sales tax rebate for a shopping mall developer.

The ubiquitous claim is that what’s on the line are jobs. That’s false; what’s on the line is how much wealthier the wealthy will become, and how much of the slack in government revenues can the middle class pick up for their more well-heeled neighbors, who share the same roads, schools, police, fire and rescue services.

I expect twenty to thirty years of little or no growth, if they go that route.
Also, I wish O would stop kicking out the people who give him good advice and keeping the ones who give him bad advice.

Obama…the best repub the Democratic party has had in a long time. What’s so depressing is knowing he won’t be reelected….leaving the door wide open for crazy repubs or their even crazier cousin teabaggers to stick a fascist in the White House. Yes, FASCIST.

Not at all. It’s indicative of how regressive our tax system, when proportionately, the wealthy pay far less than the middle and working class. Get. a. clue.