After a few hesitant days, which resulted in their being called out by Egyptian protesters and even the nascent leader of the revolution Mohammed ElBaradei, the United States government does look to be trying to slowly move Hosni Mubarak out the door and prepare for his successor. In the words of one former official privy to the thoughts of the White House, “They don’t want to push Mubarak over the cliff, but they understand that the Mubarak era is over and that the only way Mubarak could be saved now is by a ruthless suppression of the population, which would probably set the stage for a much more radical revolution down the road.”
This was not inevitable. Protesters, ElBaradei and a series of analysts called for this as the protests played out. But it became clear that Mubarak could not be saved, nor would saving him help the interests of the United States. And in the end, that drove the decision.
On the Sunday shows, Hillary Clinton called for “real democracy” and an orderly transition in Egypt. That cannot be tainted by American hands behind the scenes. The street activists are already wary of foreign involvement. One protester said, “Tell America that we get to choose our president. We choose him, not them.” According to this account, that’s what Obama is saying in private. Nonetheless, the appointment of Omar Suleiman, who ran the part of the US rendition program in Egypt during the Bush Administration, disquieted many who saw the attempt to move from one dictator friendly to US interests, to another.
But Suleiman does not seem to have the consent of the street. ElBaradei does, evidenced by the fact that he joined the protesters in Tahrir Square last night. Other opposition groups agreed that ElBaradei could negotiate on their behalf, and he has been stalwart in calling out lies about the Muslim Brotherhood. He appears to be the preferred consensus figure for a national unity government. And without meddling, that just might come to pass.
Simply understanding that Mubarak has to go may not be enough for the Obama Administration. As one observer said to the LA Times, “They have to get in front of this and not behind it.”





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This makes so much sense, thanks David.
But they have to be the ones either to organise his exile in another country or take it on themselves. Then, they have to metaphorically take him to the airport, push him through the door of the aeroplane and shut it. Just stating that the Mubarak era is over is so far short of adequate it doesn’t bare thinking about. I presume however that something is now going on in the background in that direction? Has anyone any clue, is there any hint of what is being said to Mubarak now?
Suleiman is a thug and needs to go too.
Chris Hedges this morning:
“Don’t be fooled by the glib sloganeering about democracy or the facile reporting by Western reporters—few of whom speak Arabic or have experience in the region. Egyptians are not Americans. They have their own culture, their own sets of grievances and their own history. And it is not ours.”
and:
“The Egyptian government’s collaboration with Israel, which includes demolishing tunnels into Gaza, the sharing of intelligence and the passage of Israeli warship and submarines through the Suez Canal, will be in serious jeopardy. Any government—even a transition government that is headed by a pro-Western secularist such as Mohamed ElBaradei—will have to make these changes in the relationship with Israel and Washington if it wants to have any credibility and support. We are seeing the rise of a new Middle East, one that will not be as pliable to Washington or as cowed by Israel.”
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/what_corruption_and_force_have_wrought_in_egypt_20110130/
I’ll believe it when I see it.
There is only one anonymous source for the LAT article. Could just be one of the meeting participants trying to get his side some publicity.
As I typed a couple of days ago, the only thing we know for sure is that there are large deliveries of adult diapers to Foggy Bottom & the WH. Soo many secruds to be revealed with change of regime in Egypt.
Time to break out and reread this classic.
It would help matters a lot if Mubarak recognized that it was time to retire.
Do you think Mubarak is sitting in his palace waiting for 1,000,000 people to descend upon him? Or is he planning to go down with the ship…or counting on the military to suddenly turn on the people and create a blood bath..both possible. Or..he’s already gone and Suleiman is calling the shots and biding time…
Israel’s goose is cooked.
The plot thickens. The US is always on the wrong side of these things. If Eqypt emerges with a different set of “policies” it’s not going to be good for Israel.
That, I am afraid will mean or lead to some false flag incidents to try and likely succeed at having the US get behind the AIPAC pricks.
If this sort of push from the oppressed catches and spreads as it very well might through the mid east… the US is going to be in for some rude awakenings and likely double down on its hegemony which they try to disguise as humanitarian support.
YIKES!
Anonymous former offical has just GOT to be Rahm. Still leaking even after he left.
I sure hope Obama understands that Mubarak is done. If he does, he’s probably already talking to ElBaradei about what he needs to remain silent about in order to receive US support.
Boxturtle (And we had this deal with Hosni about uncooperative prisoners we’d like to continue…)
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen David dayen:
“They have to get in front of this and not behind it.”
No, the US State Department needs to get in front of the corporate players in Foggy Bottom and behind the people in the streets of Cairo. Mrs. McClinton needs to send a stern message to the Egyptian military in Tahrir Square that they must face down Suleiman and move forcefully in front of ELBaradei to breakup the secret police and the street thug irregulars.
Obama has a moment here to wrestle sontrol of his own military and use them as a shock absorber against the inevitable pushback from the corporations through the CIA. The battle for control of the American security apparatus is now engaged and I’m not certain that Obama has the chops to get it done…after all JFK didn’t and he was at least as smart as Obama.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE WAR IS NOW IN OUR FRONT YARD WHERE IT BELONGS!!!
That’s interesting. But of course, there is a world of difference between this and negating a peace treaty with Israel, which I seriously doubt is on the minds of many Egyptians. That a new Egypt takes a neutral, humanitarian stance towards the I/P conflict is quite another thing. And one I hope everyone would welcome and encourage.
He’s figuring out how to secure his stash and which government will take him in an protect him from the international criminal court.
He participated in US torture programs.
Israel is America’s real problem in this matter. How will Israel respond to an non-compliant Egypt? War? Using the threat of war to blackmail the Egyptians?
Er…too late. Americans are about as clued in as Mubarak.
I don’t know. But to avoid any more violence, give him amnesty and exile.
This was up yesterday at the Guardian; when I went back to grab it, it had disappeared on the Live Updates.
This morning alJazeera has it again:
More ‘Arab Exceptionalism to Democracy’:
”
(Sorry; I don’t know how to get the WWWs out.)
Amen.
So she is calling for a far better system in Egypt than the one we’ve got in the US?
There’s a cheery thought. Mr. Rendition biding his time before the massive crackdown.
Perhaps this will renew the debate on the illegitimacy of the Israeli state. Imagine if the Palestinians marched out of their encampment prison called Gaza to Tel Aviv?
YIKES
Yup.
Funny how any U.S. conversation about Egypt quickly switches to a conversation about Israel.
Well said!
Suleiman is the MAJOR problem right now. JMHO
lol…kinda hard to separate the two…
Obviously because aside from the Saudi we have no real allies in the region and with respect to Saudi our allies are the ruling family not the grunts who live there.
ElBaradei to US:
“You are losing credibility by the day. On one hand you’re talking about democracy, rule of law and human rights, and on the other hand you’re lending still your support to a dictator that continues to oppress his people.”
Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/losing+credibility+Egypt+ElBaradei/4192890/story.html#ixzz1Ccxk2JxO
Also, I’ve read at antiwar and elsewhere that the Muslim Brotherhood has expressed its approval of ElBaradei as an interim leader.
The State of Israel is not an illigitimate state. But the Zionist State of Israel is.
Why not? The Broterhood is just biding its time.
Saudi Arabia is unlikely to invade Egypt because of Egypt’s (hopefully) soft revolution. Israel….
I saw that yesterday, I’m wondering if he has a vacation home at Sharm el Sheik (sp), which is not far from the border. Of course Israel will take him.
Not according to their Constitution./s
To do what? Egypt is a Muslim country.
Citizen Knoxville:
“So she is calling for a far better system in Egypt than the one we have in the US?”
Bingo…now you’re gettin’ it. We progressives here in the United States need to organize a common front with the people of Egypt and get into the streets to force Obama to face down the corporate security forces that have been runnin’ the StateDepartment and American foreign policy for at least 10 years. This is the moment Obama has to force open the split between the oil faction of the oligarchy and the US military, if he can get our military to step on the necks of the corporate mercenaries in the CIA and give the Egyptian Army a little Viagra, we might have a shot to be on the right side of this thing after all.
That might require that he switch parties. :)
After 30 years, there is a need for a transition to new leadership in Egypt. Assuming that the MOTU haven’t orchestrated this uprising, there should be no doubt that the choices for the Egyptian people will be bad or just-as-bad, both wrapped in populist rhetoric to hide the stench. In other words, their upcoming election will be some version of a typical election in the US.
You may be right. But it will be their fucking election.
Citizen eten:
No Citizen, The Muslim Brotherhood knows that they have a moment here to become a part of the “new” emmerging Arab populist politics. They have been played by Israel and the CIA for decades and they know that the only way they gain legitimacy with the majority in the Arab street is to support a secular politics and become a player in it.
Not according to whose constitution please?
Israel’s
this is a must read! by Chris Hedges
http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/what_corruption_and_force_have_wrought_in_egypt_20110130/
Egypt is not the USA
the Egyptian people don’t get the opportunity to view the world like dumb Americans.
Egyptian see a world where the USA, kills Arabs daily.
Egyptian see a world where there crooked leaders are prop up by the USA
Egyptian see a world where their crooked leaders help Israel oppressed their brothers in Gaza
Egypt is not the USA
As we’ve seen in this country for the last 30 years, it’s not enough to have the mere performance of elections. We’ve been having them, and the American people have been getting screwed every time.
Citizen Isls:
No, Obama will always be a Third Way player but he’s smart enough to see when he has a chance to be a player instead of a PLAYEE.
I’ll admit to not understanding your comment, but….. Egypt is a secular country with a large Muslim population. Not unlike Turkey. The Brotherhood will take its rightful place among equals.
I sure hope so.
In then end, this is primarily about bread, jobs, and security, not America. Although what you say is true.
I understand that. But the USA is not a dictatorship. Egypt is. So, I would say that, unless you want to counsel the Egyptians to accept their fate, which is to say, to live under a dictatorship, they ought to make the attempt to become a democracy.
/s is a snark tag. ls’s comment was snark.
Sorry, confusing I know. I was referring to your comment at 30 about legitimacy, etc. I was making a stupid reference to their Constitution, which I don’t think they have…I’m probably wrong..
Obama, Hillary and Sunstein to Nudge A Chalabi for President of Egypt. Chalabi’s got a great bio. /s
A Diebold Democratic Election forthcoming.
Lets talk about Netanyahu who represents the state of Israel first. Netanyahu wanted the Paletinians to recognize Israel as a Zionist state before he would begin negotuiations with them. He wanted all documents to read the “Zionist State of Israel.” Why would he see the need to make that demand if Israel were already being recognized by the world as a Zionist state? Regardless of what Israel’s Constitution states. A Zionist State of Israel was never introduced to the world by the UN in 1947 and 1948.
You are making my point. I don’t think they have a Constitution.
Does that mean that it wasn’t also a serious comment? Lenny Bruce was the best.
David Dayen has a fresh cross-post up: Daley Debuts as White House Spokesman, to Poor Results
Being slow today, could you remind me of your point again? Sorry.
Call it what you like, but the Egyptians have had elections during these past 30 years since Mubarak took power in 1981. He “won” reelection in 1987, 1993, 1999 and 2005. The only difference between those fixed elections and this coming fixed election is that he won’t be on the ballot.
“As I typed a couple of days ago, the only thing we know for sure is that there are large deliveries of adult diapers to Foggy Bottom & the WH.”
Obama: “Do I support Mubarack?…Depends!”
Ultimately, your point was my point.
Nice one.
Some one suggested that there may be a need for a “Club Fled” to accommodate the rising tide of fleeing despots and dictators.
The top leadership and founders of al Qeada came from the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. It’s not healthy to play with mother nature. So who really crashed those planes into the WTC?
Great minds think alike.
Wasn’t Club Fled being established in South America courtesy of the Bush family? There was a lovely piece of land there, I’ve read…
Paraguay…troops ‘n everythin’.
I disagree, kabuki101. I think they don’t trust the Israelis enough to honor the peace treaty. I think they see how “peace treaties” have worked for the Palestinians. I’d be very surprised if ElBaradei, the Muslim Brotherhood, or the other Islamic groups gave any credence to any Israel/U.S-negotiated treaty.
Who told us that?….
It sure wasn’t someone from Afghanistan or Ayerack.
That is assuming Israel will not decide to intervene in their usual manner — the equivalent of “going postal.” It’s going to be a bumpy ride, this reaping the rewards of being Israel’s toady.
If it’s not the Muslim Brotherhood, it’s some other Islamic boogey man. Yes, Egypt today is predominately Muslim but that has been true for less than ten percent of it’s history. What would be more likely to cause the rise of radical Islam in Egypt than anything else, would be threats of force from Israel and/or the United States.
I agree with you.
Ding.
We are the one’s who are at war all over the damn place. Someone hold up a big friggin’ mirror.
President Jimmy Carter finally weighs in …
have no clue as to whether this is truly independent or his role in US staging/optics
Richardson touting El Baradei. He’s the one.
*whew* Glad you didn’t add “bat”. :)
The big Push is on…
Bat.
ROFLMAO
Yeah cbl, I would think it was independent. Politicians never flock to Carter for advice or for “independent” advocacy, though they ought to.
Would Israel dare to threaten war and would the U.S. support Israel if they did? I don’t think Israel dares to do much of anything at this point, and I don’t think the U.S. is in much of a position to support their belligerence, either. Frankly, I think both Israel and the U.S. don’t know what the hell to do. They reaped what they sowed.
Citizen eten:
Did you read my comment, for Christ’s sake??!! I said that the MB has like many in Arab politics been played and manipulated by American and Israeli fascists…they have been played, manuvered, delegitimized and used as boogiemen as have so many others from indigenous Arab politics. But they have learned that if they are to survive in the “new” Arab political reality of the street they will have to earn legitimacy in this new secular politics.
And don’t forget that aquifer.
We disagree entirely about who manipulated whom in this matter.
Sometimes I do agree with NorskeFlamethrower and this is one of those times. Like I pointed out above, Egyptians have always been Egyptian first. Radical Islam isn’t going to find so much of a toehold in Egypt if it means Egyptians giving up that history and identity. IF the MB is involved in a new government in any way at all, it’s not going to remotely resemble Al Qaeda.
Right….
I love it!
I agree with your point! If the Egyptians can remain unified after the protest cycle completes its period and if a newly democratic Egypt can consolidate its democratic institutions, the United States and Israel would find it difficult to oppose the new regime — publicly oppose, of course. The United States always has the Allende option, but would the Egyptian military trade the sovereignty of the Egyptian nation-state for military aid that it does not need?
And, would Israel risk incurring international economic sanctions by invading or terrorizing Egypt?
We’ll see.
Lefttown, last tuesday Israel Intelligence Chief said Egypt had a stable Govt.
Israel and the USG did not see this happening.
you are correct, the USG and Israel have no idea about what the hell they need to do.
Who said the Muslim Brotherhood was responsible or affiliated with AQ??? Who said so?? Who proved it??
I know I don’t believe everything I read…especially if it comes from any media whatsoever, wheresoever.
Hint: They should listen to Carter.
The immediate issue for Israel, I would imagine, would be the tunnels connecting Gaza and Egypt. It has been an obscenity that Egypt has been doing Israel’s and the U.S.’s bidding on limiting access. So far, because of the unrest, the smugglers are reporting that less goods are arriving to the tunnels through Egypt. If there’s not a huge problem for Israel with the tunnels, I imagine they’d adopt a wait and see attitude re a new government and a peace treaty.
yes they should!
Carter is right as usual.
they’ll get mowed down with no mercy
But the Clintons told us on the 25th that Mubarak is a stable government. I guess “speaking fees” go a long way.
Israel is not helping their cause
Israel probably needs to be quiet, the ARAB STREET hates Israel.
read below:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102×4716424
The director of the US Jewish foreign policy umbrella called Mohammed ElBaradei, the opposition leader emerging from the Egyptian ferment, a “stooge of Iran.”
Malcolm Hoenlein, the executive vice-president of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, accused ElBaradei of covering up Iran’s true nuclear weaponization capacities while he directed the International Atomic Energy Agency, the UN nuclear watchdog.
He is a stooge of Iran, and I don’t use the term lightly,” Hoenlein said in an online recorded interview with Yeshiva World News on the Egyptian crisis. “He fronted for them, he distorted the reports.”
It is funny how some Journos call Mubarak a president and other call him a dictator.
the problem is everyone in Egypt calls Mubarak a Dictator
So Carter is “right” about one thing that many here agree with but “wrong” about what many here, including the OP, do not agree with? How do you reconcile the two?
The Zionist state of Israel is finished. Regardless of what Netanyahu believes.
Carter has given up the high ground in favor of a known torturer. Too bad.
thanks for the info,
But she told us on, I believe it was the 13th, that more than a few governments in the Middle East were not stable from the younger generations that could and would more than likely rise to demand democratic reform. She really could not have been clearer in the news conference in Qatar.
“Egyptian Opposition Plans ‘March of Millions’ for Tuesday”
If King Tut were alive today he’d be rolling over in his grave.
homer http://www.altara.blogspot.com
Yes, and from that quote, Suleiman has been his go to guy for 5 years. And I like Carter so I’m not sure what that means, but it seems pretty profound in the equation. I am getting to the point that I just need to step back from making any predictions or praising or bashing any of our politicians one way or the other or think they are “wearing depends” and saw none of this coming. I have begun a mission of trying to verify what almost anyone and everyone says including myself before I speak. I’m beginning to think that is the best thing we can do to help support the Egyptian people who are in the streets at this time.
Citizen Margaret:
Just an aside if you are still lurking. My wife and I have had Al Jazeera runnin 24/7 for a couple a days now and from what I just heard I believe that if in 1968 we had had as much support from various legitimate political leaders and leadership as the students in Cairo have gained in the last 4 days, we would have stopped the war and had Ted Kennedy as President in 1969.
Passive resistance and peaceful demonstrations work only when the opponents of the demonstrators consider them human beings in some sense of that term.
And she landed under sniper fire in Tuzla, too. Point is the Clintons are never out front except when it comes to deregulating the banks.
But she was not “exaggerating” in Qatar, nor did she fly in under snipper fire. Seriously, what she said in Qatar was actually consistent with what we see happening: the twitter revolution by a generation of 30 year olds are taking it to the streets. It is actually a point she has promoted from early on in this administration. I believe her first major speech was about the social networking revolution (can’t remember the name of the speech) when she came into State.
Oh, I didn’t realize your point was about bank deregulation. Sorry. Went back and read your initial comment. Thought you were talking about what she has said about Egypt. I get it now. You said “Clintons”.