As Siun reports, today hundreds of thousands if not millions have massed in Cairo’s Tahrir Square for the biggest demonstrations yet against the Mubarak regime. Disparate movements – not just the Muslim Brotherhood but student groups, intellectuals, online activists, and members of the political opposition – have converged to speak with one voice, united against Hosni Mubarak remaining in power.
The demonstrations will play themselves out. Let’s look at how the United States is reacting. Bloomberg claims that the Obama Administration is balancing support for the protests without an open repudiation of Mubarak, but that’s in public. Behind the scenes, the White House sent Frank Wisner, a former US Ambassador to Egypt, to the region to talk with Mubarak. Now, I don’t know a thing about Wisner other than the fact that he appeared on Al Jazeera English on Friday, the last day of large demonstrations, and was ripped to shreds by the anchor for prior US support of the repressive Mubarak regime, and how the US sides with some dictators over others purely out of self-interest. Wisner found it impossible to articulate a coherent strategy out of US foreign policy in that respect, and in fact it is impossible. But he seemed far more interested in protecting the regime from criticism, who we now learn are his confidants and friends. So I’m not too thrilled about Wisner being the face of America behind the scenes.
The LA Times printed this bit of news, that the US would accept a role for the Muslim Brotherhood in a post-Mubarak government.
The Obama administration said for the first time that it supports a role for groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood, a banned Islamist organization, in a reformed Egyptian government.
The organization must reject violence and recognize democratic goals if the U.S. is to be comfortable with it taking part in the government, the White House said. But by even setting conditions for the involvement of such nonsecular groups, the administration took a surprise step in the midst of the crisis that has enveloped Egypt for the last week.
The statement was an acknowledgment that any popularly accepted new government will probably include groups that are not considered friendly to U.S. interests, and was a signal that the White House is prepared for that probability after 30 years of reliable relations with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.
Monday’s statement was a “pretty clear sign that the U.S. isn’t going to advocate a narrow form of pluralism, but a broad one,” said Robert Malley, a Mideast peace negotiator in the Clinton administration. U.S. officials have previously pressed for broader participation in Egypt’s government.
That’s actually a key concession, and a sign that US policymakers are rethinking their relationship to the Muslim world. At the same time, there are reports that the US is “sizing up” Mohammed ElBaradei, who has at least become a unifying figure among the protesters and could negotiate a way out of the impasse. However, it’s not clear that ElBaradei would have the support of the public; right now the protests are entirely focused on driving Mubarak from power. There is nobody to negotiate with or size up.
I submit that we should be more concerned with allowing Egypt a government representative of its people than taking the measure of potential leaders, to see if we can “work” with them. Otherwise, we will fall into the same trap of propping up unpopular leaders who don’t have the consent of their citizens. This inflames rather than depresses anger against the West. Neocons wanted to establish democracy by the barrel of a gun; that led to the deaths of millions in Iraq. Actual democracy, which sets up civil structures and responds to the popular will, would be much more preferable.
Meanwhile, I hear that Jordan’s Kind Abdullah sacked his parliament in response to street protests. Everyone has been so focused on Egypt, it wasn’t clear to me that the contagion has already spread.



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How big of the U.S. /s
Yes, well, it’s a “key concession”…. yeah: how very very “big” of Team USA, indeedy.
Cue the Kabuki show of wingnuts shrieking & screaming about Kenyan Muslim Socialist Terrorist Obummer, the Nazi, and so on and so forth.
If Obama sees this as anything but a great opportunity to gain some credibility with progressive and moderate Muslims, and to recover some of the moral high ground that he’s lost in his two years in office, then he’s an idiot.
It is also a godsend in that it gives him a chance to confront the rightwing peckerheads whose asses he’s been so diligently kissing for those two years, and thereby recoup some political mojo.
All he has to do is help yank the rug from under Mubarak, something that it looks like may happen with or without his help.
The Times’ headline about “sizing up” Dr. El Baradei seems too anxious. One would think that after spending so much time trash talking him since 9/11 (over Iraqi WMD’s and Iranian nuclear capabilities) that the US intel community’s file on him would be pretty thick, that only the top brass would need to get up to speed on him.
I suspect the situation is so fluid and his current role so yet undefined, that getting to know him better might be a good idea, notwithstanding our past rudeness and his lack of agreement with the idea that the US is unfailingly a force for good in the Middle East. Realpolitik may allow him and us to speak the same language for a time.
Heh… don’t hold your breath on that one. Early days yet. If anyone can find some way to screw the lefties/small people, whilst gloriously kissing rightwing ass, it’s Obama.
An aside: Republicans and their media arm – 99 percent of MSM – will hit paydirt with this “Muslim Brotherhood” news, ie: The Kenyan Muslim Barack Hussein Obama supports Muslim Brotherhood gubmint takeover in Egypt.
Obama always finds the most expedient ways to step in giant metaphorical political cow patties.
Makes it sound like the 1 – 2 million in the street are first clearing their moves with Washington.
Washington sounds like the bum who nudges his way in front of a riot and calls himself the leader.
Spencer’s take on the new Egyptian government.
Isn’t it nice, the administration supports the MB. They act as if they are the Kings and the people need their permission to act. You can bet, If ElBaradei is supported by the US, he will never have a big role in Egypt.
Given the fact that every Republican is a flat out liar, Obama has stepped into nothing of the kind.
AJ has been reporting a change in America where the progressives are supporting the regime, when they thought it was the conservatives before. so we can be so proud to be heaped in with this lot.
Al Jazeera English has reported that the opposition groups have formed a committee. Before that they had also reported that El Baradei was acceptable to the opposition groups as a negotiator with Suleiman and the rest of the present government after Mubarek steps down. AJE is also reporting that El Baradei has met with the U.S. ambassador to Egypt.
Seconded.
The problem is that the oligarchy around the world are frantic. They are shut out of the game going on in Egypt and they don’t like it. So they are flailing about trying to come up with some solution that benifits them.
The hubris in thinking at this point the U.S. will get to dictate who is or is not acceptable for the Egyptian government is almost pathetic. The Egyptian people know full well that the U.S. supported Mubarak and it is he they want out. Any meddling by the U.S. will be identified and rejected strongly by the Egyptian people, who after today’s events are fully in power now. The U.S. must understand that unless it plans on using military force (which is clearly not going to happen and would be disastrous on every level if it did) it will have no influence at all in Egypt in the near future. The best thing to do is to support self-determination for the Egyptian people unconditionally; in the long term this will lead to a peaceful relationship between Egypt and the U.S.
The US should STFU and let the Egyptians decide their own government. They already have Parliment style government in place, they just need representation of the people.
The US is only interested in protecting the Suez and Israel at the moment. Also, trying to squash the swell so that other countries won’t see it as a win and do the same thing!
Where did you see/hear that? I missed it.
Huh? What Progressives? Where?
Bottom line, if you do what is right, life is far simpler But when all of your top foreign policy advisors and bosses are all pro Israel, it is rather hard to pull off.
The current Muslim Brotherhood is a cautious conservative lot that credibly disowns violence. Its violent past seems decades behind it. It’s not leading this rejection of Mubarak’s 30 year-regime, which seems to have involvement from nearly all levels of Egyptian society, it is trying to keep pace with events as is everyone else.
The good news so far is the Egyptian military’s restraint. I hope that continues and that the opposition is able to coalesce around more, including another credible leader, than its rejection of Mubarak. Otherwise, once he departs, things may begin to unravel less peacefully.
Obama willingly walks wide-eyed into most Republican political traps. All his Reagan biographical studies are for naught.
Apparently the King of Jordan is paying attention to all of the goings on around him.
He just reshuffled his government in response to protests over food prices.
A truly damaging memo from Wikileaks at this point would provide the KO punch.
Let it rip, Julian.
Yep! I think he is shaking in his toga too.
It would be especially bad for the military to fire on the people, after john McCain was on MSM saying what good friends and how close we are to their military.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen David Dayen:
“…it wasn’t clear to me that the contagion has already spead.”
Indeed, and now we wait for it to spead to America. We must not be romantically intoxicated but neither should we throw history and the courage of our convictions out with the bathwater the fascists are tryin ta drown us in here. We can’t be afraid to take over our politics and run ANYone out of office who doesn’t put us first (are you listening Mr. President). If we had had the support of our parents in “the greatest generation” back in 1968 maybe RFK would still be alive and oil would just be another thing in the ground.
Long live the workers and students of Egypt…we have work to do brothers and sisters.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNIITON, YOU WON’T BE ASKED FOR YOUR INPUT!!
Madma,
Where is the link to that article that the progressives are supporting Mubarak?
All the blood of the innocents from his pointless drone attacks has left the has-been president completely impotent.
There is no way a republican can walk into their own traps. Being a republican he has a totally understanding of where the traps are.
Hopefully, we will get AJ to cover our protests, since our government shut down our media long ago.
Here’s where it gets strange. Does Obama walk into these preset traps blindly because he’s stupid? Or is he the trigger? Does he know what he’s doing? Is he doing what he’s doing purposely? I’m sitting in the cheap seats and I can’t tell yet.
Well you cut to the chase there, Norske. The biggest problem, of course, was that the brainwashed “greatest generation” (my parents most especially) were the very ones constantly admonishing us dfh’s to effect “change from *within* the system,” rather launching protests.
And, as posited way back then, the PTB made it virtually impossible to effect change from “within the system,” given how incredibly *corrupt and bankrupt* that system IS and always has been.
Power to the people! And may US citizens awaken from their stupor.
Citizen NorskeFlamethrowe,r can you ditch the ammunition reference?
Anyone know what is going on in Jordan? I heard the monarchy there is panicking but I can’t find any other info other than that the king has dismissed the government.
My take is that the bosses are yanking his marionette strings. But that’s just my opinion.
That’s all I’ve seen as well.
My pal Norske has been around these parts going on six years now and that has always been his signature sign off.
Just let it go.
Norske, good to see ya again, it has been awhile.
What he said.
well, since this administrations first plan of having their good friend and fellow torturers Soleiman as their new leader, they need a new plan. I find it interesting this administration has not been able to reach ELbaradei
If I were EB, I wouldn’t lower my cred by having anything to do with U.S. But apparently that’s just me, as AJ reporting that he’s meeting with U.S. ambassador. (I missed it but some on prior thread reported hearing it.)
The arrogance of America is on full display. Those brave people in Egypt don’t care what we think and they shouldn’t. ElB is apparently their choice to at least start the process and that’s that.
Obama is not walking into traps. This is his “centrist-bipartisany-leaderly” style.
In other words, to us he is The Great Pretender, Ooo-Oooo.
See my #11 above. Al Jazeera English reported an hour or two ago that El Baradei had met with the U.S. Ambassador to Egypt.
Valid point. Theatre – Kabuki. Obama plays the role of the weak conciliator, the unwitting dupe… His hands are tied, darn it!
Obama sez, Congress must act. Obama said that Congress must push for the public healthcare option and drug reimportation – after he had already given them away to AHIP and Billy Tauzin.
Obama likes to say that it is not the job of the President to lead particular issues. Its the role of Congress.
No bully pulpit.
Those are for manly Republican Presidents like Dubya Bush.
as reported on the other thread, reliable twitter sources reporting Elbaradei told both US & Egyptian officials – Mubarak’s departure would be starting point for negotiations on transition for Egypt.
Even if he doesn’t, everything he does will be construed that way. There are those who will never give him a break or any credit.
Being Republican makes them immune to those traps because the media will never call them on it.
Same here.
No article. I just heard the news reporters on AJ saying they were seeing an interesting turn of events in America, where it is the left and progressives of this country wanting to keep this regime in power. Of course they would see it that way with what this administration is doing. They are all saying Israel and the US claim they want democracy and why are they not siding with the people. After all the Bush administration did tell dictators they had to step down. I have heard that reported more than once.
Ain’t that the God awful truth!
Divide and conquer w/ the wacko minority whipping around the majority w/ their fear of reprisals for their murderous policies. (If that’s what we call Torture/ Murder/ Treason these days, policy differences)
thanks
Man….This is glorious….I’m watching the live stream of Al Jazeera English coverage of the revolution and can’t help but tear up.
I desperately needed to be inspired after these two years of Obama and the Egyptian people have delivered. If pushed too far, the people can and will take power….and it is not a leftist not a rightist, not a socialist, not a islamist, not a working class not a middle class….. but a completely secular and popular uprising. Incredible.
I am stewing in the pleasure of Israel watching its shield of US bought and paid for dictators come crashing to the ground.
Ditto to what they all said. It’s his trademark and his ammo is metaphorical.
That is where they have reported wrong. We have no PROGRESSIVES in office and we the progressive people have full support for the Egyptians.
Egyptians have noted:
maybe they don’t want him so, they are doing this to get rid of him.
LMAO!
I figure you can guess what my reply to that would be without me even having to type it, yes?
Apparently I need to stop by more often.
Smooch honey.
Egypt is not going to trust anyone the U.S. gov’t wants to install. They are not playing around. They want true change.
The people are out en masse in Alexandria too. I wonder what Suez looks like?
Oh yeah.
Smooch back! :)
True dat. Also true: Obama can shout down the bullshit. But he doesn’t and he won’t.
He loves to find common ground by running headlong into the O’Reilly Factor.
Isn’t he doing an interview with FOX soon? I detest him more with each passing day. Two more years of this minimum? I’ll bet the Kossacks will still be in love with him though.
seconded or thirded
Perhaps you didn’t mean the impression I got from ‘the demonstrations will play themnselves out’, David, but I don’t think you are correct with respect to the Egypt situation that these are going to play themselves out and then the people will ‘accept’ something devised by think tanks, whatever country those are located in. In fact, think tanks have become as redundant as tanks under the current circumstances.
The theme of this glorious revolution is nonviolence, and Martin Luther King is smiling, Ghandi is smiling, and so is Nelson Mandela, health be to him. Desmond Tutu is dancing.
The critical issue was of course the army and their refusal to fire on the people, but more critical then even the army IS the people. These are the energies we saw generated for Barack Obama, who failed us. They are good energies and they nullify all the negativities the think tanks can conspire to produce.
The example of Tunisia and Egypt is a glorious one. It has repercussions far mightier than anything Al Qaida could do. It is the spirit that was mounted against apartheid, and the chant in Egypt is ‘Muslims, Christians, we are all Egyptians!’
Whatever happens now, as the forces of repression conspire, the world has had a remarkable moment which this generation will not forget. Thank you, Tunisia, graveplace of my maternal uncle, who died when I was three years old; thank you Egypt!
The message is nonviolence, and that is a message that will unite and ignite the world.
I am so happy to have lived to see these days.
They broke up with him for awhile, but now they’re back together. No divorce.
After killing hundreds of defenseless civilians with his pointless drone attacks, Obama has lost ALL his credibility.
That may be true but at this moment in time, I am actually kind of glad there isn’t a bunch of knee jerk rhetoric coming out of the White House for a change, see Bush, junior.
Things are happening way too fast, so many players involved, the whole Middle east is a powder keg, as an example, the King of Jordan link above. Egypt is the main focus but there is a shit storm happening all over there right now and pushing American hegemony at this point would not only be reckless, it would be stupid.
Of course, we are talking about D.C….
I think the whole world is in awe of that very thing and the message it sends across all barriers!
Newsflash to O & team: This is NOT about the U.S.
Well, not until the CIA figures out how to overthrow whatever govt replaces Mubarak.
The United States partners with Mubarak and stands by as he brutalizes his own country with a ruthless dictatorship all so we can send “terrorists” there to be tortured, then we are so arrogant as to believe we can pick and choose who will lead the Egyptian people in the post-Mubarak era?
In case you missed it, this is from Al Jazeera. BBC reported this morning that there have been street protests for the last three Fridays and there is another one planned for this Friday.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/20112113957115258.html
M’eh. I think that was just a spat. They found out Obama was cheating on them with Republicans but like a battered wife, they decided it must be their fault and they promised him they’d change so he’d “fall back in love” with them.
Crowly confirms that the person who met with EB is U.S. ambassador to Egypt. AJ
Wissner personal friends with Mubarak & will meet with him. That should work out well. /s
I haven’t read all 70 comments here, so I’m sure it may be covered, but why the fuck does the US think it has any say in the matter? The people of Egypt are demanding a new government and, last I checked, nobody in our government was an Egyptian citizen.
John Kerry just “demanded” that Mubarak step down.
Hand me the Windex please.
This is Frank Wisner II, U.S. foreign policy has gone nowhere since the OSS.
Appalling but sadly predictable:
Get that? The ouster of Mubarak = we have to nuke Iran. Fucking bloodthirsty idiots.
Busted, it’s nice to see you here. Don’t stay away so long.
I’ve been calling and calling my pathetic elected reps in DC … Saying, too how worthless Obama has been in all of this. Kind of shocking there has been no really organized effort to do so.
The U.S. like any empire, or any individual suffering from narcissistic personality disorder, thinks everything is about them. And tries to make it so at every opportunity.
Amen.
Link? I saw that he had written an op-ed this morning, saying that neither Mewbarak nor his son should run in the next election. Is your comment an update on that op-ed?
Why thank you, that was nice.
Jesus Christ on a demon dick…
American conservatives are truly the worst people on earth.
That’s actually kind of a big deal. But it means that the WH was able to reach a deal with El Baradei and they’re now comfortable with his rise to power. The WH threw Kerry a bone and let him be the first to say it publicly. Probably to make up for that wretched interview with AJ last Friday.
Being reported now on Al Jazeera English.
Kerry is such a joke.
Oh grow up Margaret. At every world event, Bolton will announce it’s a reason for bombing Iran RIGHT NOW. *g*
wow
that is truly wimpy, Don’t run in September?, yeah that’ll do it.
I missed it. I suck at multitasking.
Yeah but I think she is right..
It does seem that Washington is finally admitting to itself that Mubarak is done for.
Beautiful!
I like to picture him as one of those dummies that the comedian Jeff Dunham uses, only the hand up his ass belongs to whomever is in the WH at the time.
Scary….Bolton may be certifiably insane (not that I would know) or common variety sociopath. Charming that he is chatting Hannity.
Late to the party as usual.
Have you seen the crowds in Cairo?
Holy moly, these people are serious!
It’s true. And usually his grinning lackey Hannity is involved. It’s still appalling.
I can’t keep the AJ stream going anymore. Must be flooded.
the reporter said Kerry said Mubarak should “stand down”
prolly from the op-ed
BTW, the RIGHT NOW I actually cribbed from Blitzer, but I thought it was appropriate in the Bolton context.
Ta da!
Kerry reported for duty and used the military term “stand down.” Makes me so proud. s/
Isn’t obama a progressive? Otherwise why would all the progressives be supporting him. Sorry I know there are plenty of us that don’t but that is not what the rest of the world sees.
From the op-ed.
When Marcos stood down, if IIRC, we relocated him in Hawaii, perhaps because the climate is like that of his country of origin. So maybe we’ll relocate Mubarak to Arizona. He would fit right in there.
Lame-O
MSNBC ticker: Thousands convene in Cairo…
Thousands.
I had trouble with the link on their front page
but have better luck at this link
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
LOL. Trying to picture him mixing with the snow bunnies.
Why doesn’t that surprise me? Oh, I know. It’s because Blitzer is a Zionist, Israel loving, Muslim fearing douchebag.
Dya think.
My God, the Obama Derangement Syndrome is strong today. Some of you have it – the situation in Egypt really has nothing to do with what Obama says or doesn’t say; it’s out of their hands. I suppose people on this thread are going to blame Obama for the past 30 years of US support of Hosni Mubarak. Funny, I don’t recall a post on this site before, say a week ago, having anything to do with Egypt at all.
And of course it is absolutely impossible to believe that some of the youth in Egypt might well have been inspired by Obama and his speech in Cairo; that some in the Muslim world – well aware of US hypocrisy and history in that region of the world – welcomes the profound change in rhetoric and tone from the Obama administration nonetheless. That’s absolutely unthinkable because, after all, he is just a republican in disguise, another American hungry for empire who doesn’t care about anyone but himself.
I’m thinking Utah but AZ works too
Apparently not from the op-ed but a separate statement….
Either way it doesn’t fucking matter. It is clear that the Egyptian people have spoken….Mubarak is done.
Thanks Ellie. But that’s the page I’ve been using too.
You would have to send a creep to meet with a creep.
He can’t get a green card….
I’ll bet there would be a lot of volunteers to stick a fork in him…
Naah. Nothing so profound. Blitzer says NOW and RIGHT NOW about every other word. I once started a count, and got up to 10 in just a couple of minutes before I gave up. I thought everyone knew about Blizter’s Tourettes moments, but I guess not.
It is working for me. amy reported on DN they had an over 2000% increase for their on line. Our media must be shitting their pants.
It will be interesting to see where he goes. Does anyone really want him?
From juancole.com:
“The statement about not using force on the people came from the regular army, which is made up of a combination of staff officers and thousands of conscripts. Army chief of staff Lt. Gen. Sami Anan (Enan) may have decided to preserve the unity of his branch of the armed forces, the closest to the people, by throwing the other three under the bus.”
I had a feeling that guy Suleiman won’t be acceptable to the people, especially in light of all that has been learned about him. MSM refers to the dynamics of community organization which are happening in the midst of the apparent confusion as ‘vigilante groups’ – they are anything but! Boy, way to go to set the Egyptians against America, MSM!
It will have been very helpful that Obama gave that speech in Cairo. The Egyptians know now that his words mean nothing.
And I’ll bet you get a woodie every time you read that Obama has slaughtered and additional 30-40 defenseless civilians with his drone attacks.
I don’t watch him enough to notice a pattern. In fact, I actively avoid watching him.
Judging by what media matters is saying, there must be dozens of FOX “News” people who would be willing to take him in.
I’ve got it back on but it keeps dropping in and out.
Suleiman has/is the closet the skeletons are hidden in..
Where are his out-of-Egypt houses?
That’s funny. O’Really might enjoy him as a roommate.
Hmmm…been watching AlJ and nowhere have I seen people interviewed wanting El Baradei as their leader. Nowhere has it shown really, any leadership names tossed around. But the US has decided they want him? Perhaps instead of the US evacuating everyone, they should maybe keep someone there so they can actually see what’s going on instead of picking leaders out of the haystack.
I don’t watch him any more either. Last I tuned in was prolly a year or more ago, to do the count. I had to give up because he is just so awful.
They can discuss torture and revisionism over popcorn.
Where ever they are, that is probably where he is. I’m thinking maybe Sharm el sheik…it is a vacation spot..in Israel…near the border.
Citizen eten:
Sorry Citizen, but ammunition has many meanings and not all of ‘em are politically comfortable but I won’t remove a word from our collective vocabulary because some folks don’t have the imagination or the courage to understand the context of its use. Don’r be so afraid of what you don’t understand…there is plenty that you do understand that should scare you into action,comrad.
I have no idea. Probably lots to choose from.
How about they not pick the leader..for a change.
EB was advanced by several Egyptian groups as potential interim leader in the past few days, including MB, which subsequently reversed itself. I haven’t seen any Egyptian source on AJ advancing him today, but they’re not advancing anyone, as today’s concerns are back to just getting rid of Mubarak.
Oddly enough, Obama could probably slip him into Southern Illinois with its Cairo’s and Little Egypts.
This could have been Obama’s Berlin Wall moment. It helped Reagan that he hadn’t been an active participant in East German torture and cover ups and he didn’t feel compelled to push for a reunited Germany to appoint the E German spy/torture chief as the head of state.
Sharm el Sheik is in Egypt.
What I think about Obama’s use of the drones has absolutely zip to do with the protests in Egypt and Obama/WH’s attitude towards them. It’s easy to make glib and offensive comments like yours and then turn away like you’ve won the argument but really it shouldn’t be too hard to keep in your head criticism for some actions and support for others. I have been married for over 10 years; there are things I like and dislike about my wife (and I’m sure she feels the same). Doesn’t stop the overall feeling I have for her.
Well, we can’t have countries just willy-nilly picking their own leaders! That would be democracy and then we wouldn’t be exceptional.
I tried a simple google but got too much extraneous info so gave up.
Okay..you are right, I was thinking in reverse…nevermind.
Umm, how about 4 months ago?
Sharm el Sheik is in Egypt and has been until recently demilitarized by treaty with Israel. The military has moved back with the blessing and possibly at the request of Israel. I just don’t see any basis for the anti Israel peace treaty fear mongering yet.
Email just in from Michelle Obama
What a sense of timing.
yeah, that’s an article about Prop 23. I assume that’s a mistake. I’d be glad to be pointed to the correct article.
Gotta have some excuse to fear monger, dontcha know.
“I don’t recall a post on this site before, say a week ago, having anything to do with Egypt at all.”
Seriously? You haven’t seen posts on the al-Libi torture in Egypt? The being buried alive at US requests? Ties of Kappes with Libya and Obama turning a blind eye to the handoff of al-Libi (after his Egyptian torture that generated the Cheney requested info of “training camps” that was laundered through Powell so that the US directly represented to the UN as fact info that it was having tortured out of a guy being buried alive in Egypt?) to Libya and lack of investigation or interest re: al-Libi’s subsequent “suicide” after the hand off was discovered by lawyers?
Nothing on Egypt vis a vis the Turkish flotilla and the Gaza strip? Nothing about Egypt in numerous posts on military spending and Egypt? Nothing about Egypt in discussions about Abu Omar and the US CIA operatives (who Obama won’t investigate, much less hand over) who were convicted in Italy of rendition to torture in Egypt?
I could go on for quite a bit, but I guess if you weren’t looking it would be easy to explain how you managed to miss so much.
Mubarak’s winter house:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4020895,00.html
Yep. Daily
KosKiss Obama’s Ass has that up too.AJ reporter making very important point: To get rid of an evil dictator as quickly as possible, you’ve got to give him a face-saving exit strategy. Thinks army might be working on that behind the scenes.
More timing:
Wall Street banks ‘warned of terror threat’
“NBC’s New York affiliate said that intelligence officials are worried that al-Qaeda operatives in Yemen may try to mail package bombs or biological or chemical agents to Wall Street bankers.”
LINK.
Fuck Daily Kos…..
So what about Obama do you like?
I think that is what is going on….
The army is probably hard at work convincing Mubarak to leave.
“John Kerry just “demanded” that Mubarak step down.”
Every little bit helps.
I’d add, if the U.S. “approves” of ElBaredei, I’ll be astounded. When he was head of the International Nuclear Agency (can’t remember the acronymn) bushCo, Inc., were outraged that he wouldn’t rubber-stamp the fear-and-loathing campaign for Iran, instead, maintaining some semblance of even-handedness in his assessment of the threat of Iran’s getting nukes.
Fairness and an interest in the truth are probably disqualifying characteristics to be a corporate-friendly stooge-leader of Egypt.
David, I don’t post here much, but your work on this has been outstanding.
It stands in stark contrast to the silence on the FP at DKOS.
LMAO! Daily Kos:
Kiss
Obama’s
Shitter?
Hmmmm….
From Sharm to Eilat?
http://israelitkan.ning.com/xn/detail/4588325:Note:6525?xg_source=activity
Eilat is over the border in Israel.
Kinda like the various interpretations and meanings of cross-hairs on a campaign map? If you were defending “reload” then I apologize for jumping into your conversation with comrade elen.
What a pity that would be. Not.
Yeah, That would cause me genuine grief. Okay I can’t even keep a straight face typing that.
Some one knows what to do about U.S. banksters, huh?
My bad, how about January of ’09?
If the Muslim Brotherhood has to reject violence, does that mean the U.S. government has to reject it as well?
This is a step in the right direction. At least they’re no longer targeting innocent civilians.
No, we’re better than them. Don’t be silly.
/s
You funny.
Not even if they stop hating us for our freedom.
At the bottom tip of the Sinai Peninsula.
“The U.S. has asked its nonessential staff to leave Cairo.” AJ
Will the last to leave please turn out the lights.
Keerist.
See my #36.
Google his name, I would bet money , you will find over ONE HUNDRED PAGES, of his comments here.
Better yet, Google mine.
I know all that.
Time for the marketing team to move in. Here check this out Egypt, it’s the latest in technology for nascent democracies brought to you by the best election systems money can buy, Diebold.
Heh, 169 comments?
Oh well, if this is a repeat, so be it.
LOL, just wanted to say that White House photo made me laugh. All I kept thinking was “LOL, the White House still has phones with cords!!! My gosh I haven’t seen one of those in ages.”
What, the Prez can’t walk around and talk to foreign leaders of state at the same time? Hell, Bill Clinton managed to get a bj while on the phone didn’t he? That cord had to be “limiting.”
Zee protests, zey are not violent.
Damn, those CIA spooks are never around when you need ‘em./s
Or he’s holding out for more money to leave.
Off to do laundry, mind yer elders.
Thanks to David, my blog pals and the Mods. Back later to stir the shit.
Yeah, they’re too busy being in custody in Pakistan.
Hey OFG, wired phones are easier to secure, that’s probably the reason.
Kind of makes you wonder how many Issa’s there are hiding in between the lines of the Wikileaks cables.
It’s a few hours drive from Sharm el-Sheikh at the tip of the Sinai up the east coast to Eilat through Dahab and Nweibah. I did it many years ago.
Map
Under what circumstances were you there? Tourist?
Just to be clear, the link was referred to because we were wondering where his residences are…where he may flee to…not about the stupid violent comment in the link. :)
Mubarak is thought to be in SeS now. I asked where his out-of-country houses were.
I lived in Israel for 8 years from 1967 to 1975, minus a year I spent traveling and working in Europe and Scandinavia during 1969/1970. At that time, Sinai was part of Israel and it was my favorite place to visit. The snorkeling was unbelievable. I was completely ignorant of politics at the time. I was there during the war in 1973. In 1967, I was at a government sponsored school to learn Hebrew, then I lived in a new kibbutz in the Golan Heights. Then moved to Tel Aviv.
Another favorite place to visit was the old city of Jersulam and the Dome of the Rock Mosque. In recent years I followed Sufi practices and learned Arabic to support that.
Right, and I responded by saying that Sharm was in Israel which was wrong and pointed to a link that thought he may have gone from SES to Eilat which is out of the country in Israel, but he may not “own” a house there. His son has a house in London, and I’m going to keep loooking…haha
I understood your motive.
Interesting background you have.
I looked at a few of the pictures of SeS. It seems to be a beautiful place, but now seems pretty commercial.
Thanks. Didn’t want someone to misunderstand.
When I was there, there were no resorts, just military outpost. And lots of dust.
To settle the earlier confusion on what Kerry actually said, whether he wants Mewbarak gone now or later, AJ just played a longer sound bite from him and he’s spouting the mewling “don’t run for reelection” shit that was in his op-ed.
I asked an oriental diagnostician to evaluate two photos of Omar Suleiman I emailed him. It seemed to me from what I know that he at least had kidney and intestinal issues. Here’s the response I got back:
Yep. Has prolly changed a lot in 30+ years, esp now that it’s Egypt’s showcase resort, where all kinds of meetings with VIPs showing up.
Also found out that Mubarak had an operation in April. Stones or something. (Maybe on his wiki but I’ve been googling around so don’t remember where I saw it.) Anyhow, his health is not that good & he’s 82, so why is he still hanging on.
These power-crazed people are really totally different animals from me.
The reason people went there then was for diving and snorkeling. If you were very courageous. It was an area known to have high concentrations of sharks. I didn’t get in the water there. I went for the historicalness of it.
This is kinda interesting:
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?49825-Hosni-Mubarak-Wealth-40-Billion-Dollars-!!!
I’ll bet the son is glad that Dad didn’t turn this mess over to him.
Such bold vision /s
jeez, how much is enough?
My friend’s Egyptian husband went snorkeling near there and stepped on a stonefish. He died of shock about 1/2 later at the top of the hill.
Heh, I did catch a ‘shark’ ref out of the corner of my eye when I was fooling around with the photos. I decided not to go there.
Wow. I’m sorry for your friend’s loss. How long ago did it happen?
Courtesy of you and me no doubt…
Yes, I’ve seen other references to his ill-gotten gains in that order of magnitude.
I used to say all the time that the water in the Gulf of Aqaba felt different than any other sea water I’d ever been in and then a few years ago I found out that it, for some reason, has a higher salt content.
It was in 1999 or 2000. They look like coral and have dog faces apparently, and it was quite shallow where they were. It was awful.
No kidding.
Oh dear. That is terrible.
According to that person, he had a lot of residences. He could even be in NY!
Yes, I’ve seen them in the Gulf of Aqaba. The first time I went snorkeling there, I was about to stand up on one and someone pulled me away. It was impressed on me how dangerous it was to touch them with bare skin.
Where are all those welfare haters when you need them?
Looking at the map, the salt content prolly relates to its shape, i.e., long & narrow with small opening into the Red Sea, meaning it accumulates salt from whatever waterways that empty into it. Great Salt Lake, with no real outlets, is an extreme example of that.
If he comes to town, I’ll go into the city to make sure to put out the welcome mat. Not.
It may well be.
The real high salt content is The Dead Sea. I’ve sat up in it reading a newspaper. That water is very hard to swim in. It’s almost like swimming in a jar of jelly.
The “beach” they were at was unattended. They were alone. When they got to the top of the hill, he collapsed. For some weird reason, there was an Israeli ambulance or something driving by and they flagged it down, and they took him over the border into Israel to a hospital where he was pronounced dead. They would not allow his wife to accompany them into Israel, so she waited at the border, and they brought his body back to her. He is buried in Alexandria.
They’re at Spelling School for Signmakers.
I have no intentions of googling his or your comments for the past six years, or his comments during the “reload” debates of just a couple weeks ago. If you were both consistent in your views that using metaphors that evoke violence rather than peaceful protest, as the Egyptian people are clearly doing, then you are just that, consistent.
But for me, and I suspect many other people, there is a reason why I would never stand with the Tea Party people or anyone that uses such metaphors as “ammunition” when and if the American people ever did take it to the streets, especially while that someone was telling his “brothers and sisters” that “we have work to do”.
That’s a long drive from SeS to Eilat in Israel.
I hate swimming in salt water. I’m a swimming pool swimmer, and not much of that any more, since it’s so boring. Anyhow, I swim with my mouth open, so gaaah on doing it in salt water. I did do the swim portion of a triathelon in the Hamptons for a friend a couple of years ago, and it actually wasn’t as bad as I had remembered. Still…
Better to give Mubarak $40 billion to promote “democracy” than risk giving a single mother food stamps because she might, just maybe, perhaps, possibly, buy a lotto ticket…
Your friend must have been heartbroken, both to not be able to accompany her husband and then to have his body brought back.
They were somewhere between the two. I don’t remember the exact location. They did stay in SES one night for sure. I think the beach was much closer to the border and is known to have a spectacular view, which is why he took his wife there. Tour buses stop there to look at the view from the road.
FDL will you please do an in-depth profile on El Baradei. MSM keeps giving him coverage but who is he?
what views does he hold? How closely is he tied to elite foundations that for generations have been influencing global policy? What is his credibility to run for govt in a country that he has barely lived in. Where are the articles from the past 30 years or so showing how he has been opposed to this regime and its treatment of its people? I think these are fair questions and should be reported on.
We need more background information on this guy beyond he stood up about WMD’s. We need to know now
Totally.
Do some research and write a diary..that would be helpful. Also, check Emptywheel out…she’s probably all over it…or not.
In case you haven’t been keeping up with the news, EB has no intention of running for Egyptian prez, at least according to his public statements. He has offered to fill in as an interim head until elections can be held, to help negotiate with old regime and set up elections. Some Egyptian groups have greeted that offer favorably, since there is no obvious internal candidate at the moment. MB, for one I remember, initially supported it, but then withdrew the support.
And as lsls sez, you can do the work & write a diary. I’m sure it would be informative.
AJE announced that Mubarek would address the nation soon.
I agree with Isis @ 227. Democracy Now! is a good place to start. Looks like their coverage of him goes back to 2003. Many pages. This is from March 2010:
For quick reference if you don’t have it readily available:
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
I think his statements since then have indicated he’s not gonna run, but I could be wrong.
Mubarak to speak “soon”, whatever “sooooooon” is.
Thanks for the heads up. I had muted it while going over to book salon, but I got such a mushy A to my Q that I decided it wasn’t worth the effort.
AJ: ad stl th or hu a is a somewhat ka
Breakin’ up…
AJE: Obama saying Mubarek shouldn’t run for re-election in September.
I guess he’s choosing not to notice that that’s 9 months away.
Coward in Chief….Barack Obama has told Mubarak “not to run” for reelection….
Proving that those who walk in the middle of the road will be run over.
Obama is a fucking coward.
AJ: Obama came out with same wishy washy message as Kerry, namely that Mubarak shouldn’t run for prez again.
Among other things.
Drinks all around!!!!!
Great! I’ve been so glued to my computer that I haven’t had breakfast yet! A little should go a long way.
Hear, hear! Raise a glass to the fierce urgency of not running again in nine months!
Not entirely off topic, but late last year I reread Alexandrian Quartet. Had a mental picture of the corniche in Alexandria. I didn’t want to google it because I didn’t want reality to interfere with my picture. But now I see the reality, it matches up, I’m happy to report. The big diff is that in the late 30s I’m sure the highway was a lot smaller and the cafes more intime.
Whatever you can say against O, he is occasionally good for a laugh line.
NOT . GOOD . ENOUGH
I had potato chips (not cheetos) for breakfast, as there were just a few left in the bag, but leftover chicken for lunch. That leaves one more piece of chicken for supper before I’ll make soup with the bones.
We’re getting another foot-foot&half of snow. I have enough food to last thru next winter.
Is it possible they are patting themselves on the back over self-perceived cleverness at the way they are beating to death the concept of trying to play both sides?
As I said about O in another context, he labored mightily for days and came out with a small fart.
I think that’s today’s D talking point since both O & Kerry came out with it. About as embarrassing as Biden’s remarks last week.
Wonder what tomorrow’s talking point will be.
I’m hoping they don’t dislocate their shoulders while patting themselves on their backs.
You are too kind, I’m hoping they do :^) And I’m hoping the world sees how amoral and gutless they are with the way they are handling this.
Hah. I’ve gotten as far as walking through the kitchen.
Gonna go take my morning shower.
Egyptian state TV saying Mubarek will speak shortly.
Phew. About time you showered. *g*
No kidding. Off I go. Come get me out if Mubarek speaks before I would otherwise come back.
“Statement,” not “speech.”
Prolly gonna announce neither he nor his son will run for election in September. /s
Can I just yell, instead of, ya know, actually coming to get you?
fixed it for ya
Works both ways. *g*
This is gonna go down like a lead balloon…unf’ingbelievable. How deaf are these people…. Mubarakabamaco that is!!!!
10pm in Egypt. And Mubie’s gonna issue a statement. Sounds analogous to the U.S. Friday nite data dump.
“Obama administration trying very hard not to look like they are interfering” cnn
Excuse me……could we just have honesty here…just for one f’ing time?!
No.
Another episode of simple As to simple Qs.
Hey, I found the party! I was wondering where all you people were… The Book Salon was kinda dead.
lol…banging head on desk
Another “taped” statement…might as well be…oh, I know…he’s where OBL is..something like Paris, London, or NYC.
Not so much dead, as lame.
I left after the stupid A to my Q about the future of the report. I’ve been scanning it since, but Georgiou is sticking to bureaucratic BS.
When we wrote reports on Wall St, that was just the beginning of the process. Then we had to go out & sell the ideas.
Oh, never mind.
We’re not interfering…we’re “nudging”.
It’s not nice to make fun of your betters.
Yeah. I thought, in the first 20 comments or so, that this guy was going to give some straightforward answers. Then I realized that his staffers are answering questions for him and simply deflecting instead of giving genuine responses.
He ignored my follow-up question about additional regulation.
I don’t mind if they ignore some Qs, as the venue can be awkward to hit every one. I DO mind bs-ing.
I did a ‘find’ on ‘hope’ and found 6 of them. Heh.
Too late, I’m back and very clean.
IIRC, his last public statement was also at night.
Thanks. You look a lot better too.
I remember the same thing.
Yes, nice and pink from the hot shower. Thank you for noticing.
Midnight, it was.
Maybe Mubie gets time and a half for working late hours.
I gotta say that even the anchor-reporter time-filler conversations, like what is happening now, are so much more intelligent than anything I’ve ever seen on U.S. TV. And that includes the good old days. These AJ folks not only know their subject, but also know how to add color in a way that is interesting.
Yep! Mubie will announce not seeking a ‘second’ term. According to AJ’s WH reporter’s source.
Amazing.
I agree.
Also, what Mudummsh*t is about to say will be totally unacceptable unless they floated it out there and he says something different…looks like it is about to happen..
Citizen dabear:
No need to appologize and no it wasn’t anything like “crosshairs”…many “liberals” want to censor language out of context because they either don’t understand the use of the word or are afraid to understand the context within which the word is used. In the case of Mrs. Palin, the context was in the visual and the meaning was unambiguous. My use of ammunition can mean anything from knowledge to information to whatever is used to fire the truth at a particular subject in context but in order to understand what it means in the context in which it’s used one must have the balls to think about it and figure it out.
Moving a couple of flights up where Levine has post on Mubarak’s statement.
the USG and the Globalist are trying to buy time,
Mubarak telling the people he will not seek re-election, is a complete JOKE, Mubarak is a dictator.
the USG wants Egyptians to wait until September to elect a new GOVT.
Because the USG needs the time to groom a new dictator, to take over.
who governs in Egypt in the mean time? Mubarak the Dictator? Yeah like that is going happen.
Mubarak needs to head to an air port now, Dictators find it very hard to say good bye, so the military probably needs to put Mubarak on a plane and kick him out of Egypt.
the USG is gasping for air, they are not in control of this situation and are very pissed.
Mubarak is history! USG
Americans wonder why the USA is sinking like the titantic, all you have to do is look at Obama leadership or lack of leadership the last couple of days or years for that matter.
Obama is still talking to Mubarak, Mubarak does not MATTER.
I realize that. But hey…he is a democrat and democrats are supporting him and that is what people see. Our history is that democrats are progressive. Many progressives in this country still don’t get, how would they? I think it important for us to be out on the streets so the people in the middle east get to see the truth.