The White House’s terse two-line statement condemning attacks on protesters at Tahrir Square in Cairo today expresses “concern” about attacks on media and peaceful demonstrators. It makes no mention of the fact that the Mubarak regime, based on multiple reports, directed these attacks.
In my area of Tahrir, the thugs were armed with machetes, straight razors, clubs and stones. And they all had the same chants, the same slogans and the same hostility to journalists. They clearly had been organized and briefed. So the idea that this is some spontaneous outpouring of pro-Mubarak supporters, both in Cairo and in Alexandria, who happen to end up clashing with other side — that is preposterous. It’s difficult to know what is happening, and I’m only one observer, but to me these seem to be organized thugs sent in to crack heads, chase out journalists, intimidate the pro-democracy forces and perhaps create a pretext for an even harsher crackdown.
The attacks on journalists is the big giveaway. I heard an observer of the scene in Tahrir Square today say that the pro-Mubarak forces yelled two chants, one in support of Mubarak and one in opposition to Al Jazeera. Authoritarian regimes traditionally take out the communications networks first so nobody outside the country can see their repression.
One prominent American television correspondent, Anderson Cooper of CNN, was struck in the head repeatedly.
Reporters Without Borders said it had received dozens of confirmed reports of violence against local and international journalists in Egypt. Tala Dowlatshahi, a spokeswoman for the group, said “to expect more foreign journalists to be targeted” as violence continued.
The attacks against the news media were reported by Al Jazeera, CNN and Twitter users almost as soon as violent clashes began in the square, eliciting a swift reaction from the United States government.
Al Arabiya reporter Ahmad Abdallah was captured by the pro-Mubarak thugs. According to The New York Times, two of their reporters were cornered by the thugs who tried to stop them from reporting. “Protesters are hunting down Al Jazeera journos,” wrote Gulf News’ Abbas Al Lawati. The Guardian bluntly says that the government is involved, and quotes British Prime Minister David Cameron that such a turn of events would be “completely unacceptable.”
This has all the earmarks of a coordinated strategy. Internet access returned to Egypt for the first time in days today. Egyptian state television started broadcasting images from Tahrir Square of clashes between pro-democracy and pro-Mubarak forces.
The pro-democracy forces still have control of Tahrir Square, and have formed a human chain around it. The Egyptian health ministry has said that one is dead and 403 are injured in the clashes. Ambulances cannot get in to reach the wounded.
It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that this is a state-sponsored attack against the Egyptian people.
More from Siun.
…Heck, even four Israeli journalists have been arrested for trying to report on events. The government doesn’t want anyone to see what happens next.




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Mubarak’s Cossacks on camels.
Dictators don’t leave via elections. Obama can’t really be so naive as to think Mubarak was dealing with him in good faith, can he?
The U.S. cannot condone this kind of criminal behavior.
Oh, wait…
can’t help but wonder if this WH was naive/foolish/clueless enough to think Egypt would simply follow the Ben Ali/Tunisia script
Days ago, 26 journalists were dragged by Mubarek thugs and now when CNN has their reporters attacked, obushma can no longer hide behind ignorance.
Yep. Cooper has no doubt who it was that attacked him, in spite of his stay at home colleague trying to get him to say that he didn’t know who it was.
Cossacks would have been an improvement. Trotsky’s History of the Russian Revolution recounts a case where a Cossack was tossed in the arms of the revolutionary crowd in jubilation, after he had killed an abusive Tsarist police officer with his cavalry saber.
Is there any news yet about the extent of the damage to the Egyptian National Museum from astroturfer thug firebombs?
No. Bawk, bawk, bawk…that’s Obama.
Where’s Tony Blair when you need him? I’m sure he has an explanation.
Sickening that the army is standing back. I’ve sent urgent emails to the Whitehouse and my congress people to do their utmost to get the egyptian army to protect the demonstrators protesting Mubarek’s government.
Have not seen details of the museum looting other than the priceless Tutankhamun treasures were not affected.
From WaPo
shorter Tony Blair earlier -
Full Poodle – nauseating
here is link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/02/tony-blair-mubarak-courageous-force-for-good-egypt?CMP=twt_fd
“No one could have predicted!”
I don’t belive the folks in the street in Cairo are viewing the enforcers on horseback in such a romantic light.
I think they’re afraid of all the torture evidence falling into revolutionary hands.
This may well be where the PTB has decided to make their stand. They were caught pants down in Tunis, but if the people of Egypt succeed in unseating power, then the rest of the world would feel emboldened, and the capitalist class is loathe to entertain that picture. So I wouldn’t be surprised if this turns ugly. We should be in the streets supporting democracy in Egypt, demanding of Obama to unseat Mubarek as Bush unseated Sadam.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8293432/Egyptian-riots-put-Tony-Blairs-holiday-in-peril.html
earlier in the day, WH released a statement saying they “were surprised” by today’s violence – never mind that even clueless US TradMed was forecasting same all over US cablenets last night
The documents in Egypt’s black sites have enough dirt to put the Poodle away in an Egyptian crypt for at least a few millenia.
“Egypt report from Human Rights Watch: “Impunity for Torture Fuels Days of Rage” (by Xeni Jardin at 12:46 PM Monday, Jan 31, 2011):
What Human Rights Watch has already discovered that the “sponsors” of the Mubarak regime are purchasing.
Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. Thought shalt not thug up Anderson Cooper.
tweets – “confirmed” Museum is not burning, only burning cars outside
Like minds…
count me among those thinking much of the stalling is tied to shredding
Yup.
Loving the way that Egyptians who are interviewed by AJ all have Mubarak’s number.
The military is telling the pro-democracy demonstrators to go home.
Vice President Suleiman has said there can be no negotiations until the protests end. So much for his ability to act in good faith.
Are you saying you think that turned out well?
guess so
I’m just assuming that there are things, more and worse, that we haven’t yet discovered.
One person dead. Six hundred injured.
Gawd, am I glad I don’t have cable teevee.
No doubt Dictator Mubarak has decided he can take the international hit for causing 1,000 casualties at the square.
Murder 100 people… no problem.
Ending this mess is going to take having the Egyptian Army kill Mubarak. Otherwise the killing will go on for months.
BTW: Israel and Washington ? Irrelevant.
Yup, you can almost hear the whine of those shredding machines whirring round the clock.
It is after 10:00pm in Cairo,
Mubarak and his cowards always come out at night and attack the innocent.
Me Thinks when the SUN comes up tommorrow, Cairo is going to Explode
Mubarak is living and a dream land.
Egypt has a big problem, you have a population that does not have much to live for, but they do have a lot to die for!
Brian Williams is there and reporting that there’s been some kind of shoot out involving big weapon fire (army) and ambulances sirens..
Whew! Excellent – I had read in another thread that the Museum was actually on fire. I’m glad to hear that it hasn’t burned.
suiLIEman
king thug…torturer
Though Cooper could use an occasional smack up against the head in the metaphorical sense that pisses me off. The Democracy Now! journalist hasn’t tweeted in a while now and that concerns me greatly.
Museum official on AJ. Hard to understand his English. But he seems to be saying that he fears that Mubarak would be willing to destroy Egypt’s priceless historic objects in order to preserve his regime.
the ruling elite in Egypt is trying to hold on to power.
the problem they have is at night you are dealing with a couple of thousand
what are you going to do when the MILLION PISS OFF EGYPTIAN show up?
the only way to stop this protest, is for MUBARAK to get on a plane and leave Egypt, this is not rocket science
Mubarak has cancer,no? whats his upside…state funeral?
That I believe.
i dont doubt it for a minute…criminals
Suleiman and all of his cronies have to leave too. Mubarak is not enough.
Stalling to shred documents! Very interesting. I hadn’t thought of that, but it would make perfect sense. I believe it’s also the first rational explanation that I’ve heard for the current stalling. Maybe all of it – the bizarre speech, the astroturfed thuggery, the statements from the military that don’t match either the mood on the street or the insider tips from retired generals – are just tactics to gain time for shredders and document incinerators.
CAIRO, July 19 (UPI) — Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak is thought by intelligence agencies to be dying of cancer affecting his stomach and pancreas, The Washington Times reported.
U.S. and Western intelligence agencies, determining the 82-year-old leader was terminally ill, have been watching for a transition of power in the Middle Eastern nation that is a vital U.S. ally, the Times reported Monday.
Earlier this month, several newspapers in the region said Mubarak sought treatment at a French hospital, but a senior Egyptian government official interviewed by the Times said the accounts were “without any factual basis whatsoever.”
Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2010/07/19/Report-Egypts-Mubarak-dying-of-cancer/UPI-63291279547386/#ixzz1Cqbrh2I9
True, but first things first. Ben Ali exited Tunisia quickly, but it’s taking weeks to weed out all his cronies. After Mubarak is safely on his way to Saudi Arabia, the revolutionaries can start worrying about his cronies.
He is worried because of the use of Molotov cocktails very close to the museum and no response to protect it from military. He pointed out that a lot of the objects are made of wood.
Mubarak needs better advice!
Mubarak you have a nation full of people living in big time poverty
do you think your countrymen are afraid to die?
Mubarak better hope the SUN don’t come up
Me Thinks Hell is COMING, to many people with few reasons to live in Egypt and a lot reasons to die.
Obama lack of leadership is on full display here.
Everyone with any common sense knows, that ANTI MUBARAK forces will overwhelm Cairo Tommorrow
If you want to read about real thuggery, check out Islam Karimov of Uzbekistan. Supposedly he boils people alive.
Yesterday there were reports of 2 million protesters in the square. How many thugs on the other side have been estimated?
I’m saying we should be seeking to express our solidarity in the streets.
Submitted without comment. (I’m afraid I’ll be moderated)
Mubarek has no intention of stepping down, as he is making brutally clear.
That explains his dying in Egypt comment. He may not even make it 6 months. It would also explain Obama’s reluctance to go further in his comments. Not that I think he should accept this bloodbath in exchange for Mubarak’s last wishes…just a thought.
I did see a report yesterday, forget where, that Mubarak had an operation last April, but IIRC it was for something relatively minor, like stones.
Isn’t it about time that progressives start learning to read between the lines when a White House statement is written in diplomatese? The real question is what was the private statement to the Mubarak government. The world is very clear that Mubarak orchestrated these goon squad attacks; they started in Alexandria almost the moment he stopped speaking.
The situation is that the US risks pissing off the Egyptian military if it threatens to pull its military aid. There is little the US can do to Mubarak personally but make him an international pariah. John Kerry, PJ Crowley, and Howard Berman have more latitude in delivering an official statement.
Events now are beyond US influence. The foreign policy problem is what to do with the consequences when the situation is resolved. And US relations with the Egyptian military are the key relationship we have left. It could have been much different but three decades of a persistent foreign policy mistake are not overcome easily.
I worry, too. I think dry mummies can burn, too, and I know papyrus can.
If people in most of the United States take to the streets just now, there are going to be a lot of deaths due to exposure.
F***!!
wired reporting the arrest of Facebook Activist and co founder of April 6 Youth: Ahmed Maher
Austin American Statesman’s front page today is saying more than 1/4 million anti-Mubarek demonstrators. I can only guess they were wearing minimizing filters.
state funeral?
In the thousands is the number I heard this morning. But from what has gone on since then, I’d guess, if it were thousands, it seems to be low thousands. Seems they were quite outnumbered even though protesters #s had gone down a lot overnight.
he looks thin to me
Soliman acting in good faith. It wasn’t good faith that motivated him ever. It was the prospect that the regime might go down and his offer might buy them time to regroup. Co-opting the protest “leaders” was part of that charm offensive.
Okay, maybe State is getting closer to the smack down. Guess he could have said “Murbarak’s use of violence…” but seems pretty clear who State is saying is doing the use of violence. Thank god, at least, the word “concern” is gone.
Gaunt anyhow, but so would be if we had his problems.
I was watching it this morning and thinking… of all places to throw those things…
Someone needs to tell Mubarak that he can’t take those treasures with him when he “goes”…he’s not a friggin’ pharo.
That’s why I was wondering. How thuggy could the thugs be if they’re outnumbered 1000 to 1?
Very astute museum director. The earlier looters might have been on contract by certain art dealers. They just got interrupted by security that actual cared about protecting the place.
Makes one wonder about whether the fire at the National Democratic Party headquarters was a Reichstag fire to scare folks about security.
I never thought he was acting in good faith – that was what some of the Egyptian people being interviewed on Al Jazeera were saying. I was trying to say that now no one could think he’s acting in good faith.
before
http://www.habername.com/images/news/18754.jpg
But he thinks he is.
sounds like the Egyptian elite see the end of the road, and they don’t like what they see
“Concern” in diplomatese is pretty strong language with an “ally”.
If one group is intent on violence and the other is not, pretty damned brutal. The Indians marching with and for Gandhi vastly, enormously outnumbered the British but that didn’t stop the British being quite brutal. In fact, it may have made them more so.
God, that’d be easy. I’m willing to bet that if you were president of the regime, you’d just say, fine, I’ll go. Is there time to pack the Scotch?
I suspect that we will know by the weekend. And it very much depends on whether the Egyptian people in general have indeed lost their fear of the regime.
He definitely does…lol
I was thinking the Mubaraks were spending this time transferring their Billions to overseas accounts.
Probably the origination of concern troll.
HM now
http://warincontext.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/mubarak-speech.jpg
I am not sure that is what you said, and the Bush model is certainly not such a good one. Thanks for your answer.
we should be calling them Cairo Cocktails today
good point
I was not at my computer while the clashes diminished, so I didn’t follow every jot & tittle of that. But when I got back to the computer, & found how much it had wound down after just 2 hours, I had the same thought.
Every Egyptian AJ interviews knows about these Mubarak has used over & over, esp during elections. One guest even said there was a group of standard go-to-guys who relied on that for part of their regular income.
I’m guessing that Mubarak has not needed a lot of them in the past, because the population was scared. So while it took a week for Mubarak to round them all up, the pop is no longer scared & they come up vastly inadequate.
Having said that, throwing molotovs from building roofs, esp close to museum, is pretty dangerous stuff. And army’s not trying to stop them.
Christ on a crutch. They are predicting snow for here tomorrow. That’s just wrong.
$40 billion would buy me a lot of scotch, even after I’d left.
poor baby,hows my adopted furry kinder
you and I both know that Mubarak is history
the players involve in the Egyptian uprising have increase
we know CIA ops are on the ground
we know Israel is in the Mix
Iran is in the Mix
Russia is probably in the Mix
and the MOSQUEs are in the Mix
the media is not discussing the role that religious leaders are playing in this movement.
no one is really in charge, after listening to GIBBS, one realizes the WH is searching for clues
If it doesn’t actually snow there, we’re putting several feet of our excess on trucks to be shipped to you.
That’s what Ive been hearing…Thur into Friday, I think. That is not what I had seen on the weather page, though. But it is really cold. I had to go out this am, and lights were squirelly all over the area.
I hear what you are saying, but It is good State lost the word though in the heat of this moment. It is sending a stronger message to loose that particular “diplomatese” at this moment. The message needs to be heard by the “Egyptian people” more than anyone at this moment. The word “concern” that has been repeated by the WH since the weekend obviously has not worked or we wouldn’t be at the point of needing to say things directly like “the use of violence to intimate the Egyptian people”.
Ah, Margaret, come visit me in NW Indiana, if you’re worried about snow!
EDIT: I see that eCAHN has offered to send you some from NY. We don’t want you to be left out of the fun.
Whew. Protester by the museum says it is not on fire. No buildings are on fire.
LMAO Gawd. Your power been rolling on and off today too?
One thing to watch in interviews with Egyptians on al Jazeera; they all have agendas. And there was a period in which the opposition thought they might be able to “charm” the military and even Soliman away from Mubarak. That tactic, as practical as it was at the time, seems to have failed.
The other thing to watch is the al Jazeera newsmodels in Doha often are expressing their own agendas in what they ask, how and who they push back on, and so on. Emir Hamad bin Khalifa and Prime Minister Hamad bin Jassim can hardly be neutral observers of the events in Egypt.
Okay, okay….I wasn’t whining or being comparative. I was just lamenting the fact that it’s not supposed to snow in central Texas. LMAO! :-D
Nope. So far that’s been steady for me.
It is DEFINITELY not a good day for peeps who live in central TX to mention snow. *g*
I hear ya! The weather has been pretty freaky all over this winter. More evidence of climate change, I think.
We are sooo unprepared..but it will be about 70 in a couple of days. lol
LOL. You can say that again! Notre Dame (where I worked until I retired in August) is closed today. First time since 1999.
I had two of the rolling blackouts at 6:30 for an hour and again at 8:10 for a half hour. Took a shower with 10 candles in the bathroom. It was beautiful.
I’ve been OK at home, but the streets definitely were not. And I was going to put my car in the shop, and the dealership had no power. Not good.
LMAO! I withdraw the complaint and make it an observation. :-D
It seems like it’ll never be 70 here again.
Prolly go from 30 to 90 in a couple of weeks when it finally changes.
An hour? Im sure I would freeze;)
Yes, I’m aware that everyone has an agenda. Me too. :)
I want the revolution in Egypt to succeed, for them and for the rest of the world, including us.
Almost certainly. Extreme weather is right in line with predictions.
At least the bears are leaving you alone
After reading @99 looks like you called it.
Tony Blair took an adversarial stance this by week by defending Egypt’s autocratic president Mubarak as “immensely courageous, and a force for good
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/02/tony-blair-mubarak-is-imm_n_817644.html
The Globalist and Elites around the world are circling their wagons around one of their own MUBARAK
Well, I turned on the gas fireplace in the living room, closed off the bedrooms and bathrooms and, in that hour, the temperature in the house only went down a few degrees from the 79 degrees I had it at before the blackout. Definitely doable for an hour.
There’s that.
I am waiting for someone to offer the opinion that this snow and freezing cold is “proof” that “global warming” is a myth.
My grandson (now 15) got in my car to be driven to school last year when I stayed with them, and said, “Brrr. Global warming should hurry up and get here!” He’s very intelligent so it was a joke, and I thought it was pretty funny.
That’s good. I just heard a bunch of cancelled activities for the rest of the day.
To be expected. This democracy stuff is not to their liking so much.
nobody pays any attention to blair
from the revelations of his letters to bush in which they agreed on regime change in iraq without any cabinet consultations and despite original advice to blair that this would be against international law, blair should stfu pronto
You had your house temp at 79??? My daytime thermostat setting is 68, down to 60 overnight.
Fresh Air doing Egypt coverage….regime of raw coercion…..
I don’t think you’ll run into much of that here. Most people here understand the difference between weather, (point analysis) and climate (trend analysis). Stick around though, kumarui may treat us before the day is over.
My house temp has been falling for two days because my furnace isn’t working very well. I’m bundled up and camped out in my bedroom with a teeny space heater. If my cat wasn’t afraid of it, she could be warm too.
Oh is kumari a denier? I know s/he is a rightwing troll, but didn’t remember specifics.
(I just wrote this once and it disappeared into the ether. Hope there isn’t a duplicate floating around.)
Not to butt in, but our block lost power last night at 10pm and didn’t come back on till 6am. I’m thinking it wasn’t a rolling outage, but one that prompted them. The house temp only got down to 52, but no hot water in the morning. I decided I’d rather stink than freeze.
Something weird is going on. I’ve had two comments just disappear (and they were harmless, not of interest to mods). Are we having technical difficulties?
EDIT: it was a reply to Margaret at #124. I said I didn’t remember that kumari is a denier, but do know s/he is a rightwing troll.
Really? I haven’t had any disappear that I know of.
Good choice…;)
Same reply to your #124, I hit submit and no comment appeared. So I tacked it onto my #127. Not an important comment, but strange that it disappeared twice!!
Weird alright.
Looks like the paid pro-Mubarak thugs on horseback and camelback have left Tahrir Square, taking their whips and Molotov cocktails with them.
They f’ed up, big time, when they went after the media. Now even the tamest dictator-friendly US corporate media is saying flat-out that the thugs are Mubarak’s. When even people like Nick-frigging-Kristof start sounding like Robert Fisk, you know the régime f’ed up.
People, follow Evan Hill on Twitter — he’s got the scoop right now!
Despots always make the people who ultimately cause their downfall.
One of the people throwing Molotov Cocktails just set himself on fire.
yes they did!
Mubarak actions were only making his friends in Syria, Saudai Arabia, Jordan, Yemen, very, very, nervous
the USG probably told Mubarak to back off!
the USG gave Iraq to Iran, they don’t want to give Egypt to Iran and Russia
For anyone having problems with AJ link this one for me just opened up immediately:
AJ Eng Live.
They’ll get calls from their corp masters this evening. Tomorrow they’ll be back on the straight & narrow.
On edit: Ditto O.
try refresh
Margaret
when one fights for the Devil, they usually end up on fire
I believe it.
Wow! Sounds like Obama called David Cameron and gave him the approved talking points.
what a horror!
I said earlier they were Cairo Cocktails, but I change that to Mubarak Cocktails.
Per chuckie todd…WH bracing for Friday to be another bad day in Egypt..
Brace This!
watching obama here gives me the same sick, sick feeling as with the BP oil spill.
Chuck Fuck Todd. How does one network wind up with the two biggest tools in the box, (Todd and Gregory)?
Margaret,
I would be glad to give you some of the snow we got yesterday and through the night. 44 mph wind gusts and this morning drifting up to my hips.
Our street still not plowed out so we are going nowhere.
Trade ya!
Did someone mention cocktails?
I think the cocktail hour might be near. Let’s see what kind of high octane stuff I can rustle up. Nothing you can run a vehicle on, though.
Don’t want it. Don’t need it. Don’t like it. But thanks for thinking of me! :)
I told her she could have ours first. You have to wait in the queue.
Margaret,
Just kidding with you. I understand your sentiments exactly and i am so ready for spring and summer.
eCAHN,
Did you say cocktails. I would hike through the drifts right about now and I am not a big drinker of anything stronger than Pepsi.
My liquor choices are very limited however I have a half a bottle of vodka and some unopened Patron tequila in the freezer. Might have to break it out eventually.
I was on the elevator this am with a woman, and she said we just moved here from Pennsylvania…I wasn’t expecting this. I wonder what she had been told; I assured her this is not the usual. We really are wimps when it comes to cold, IMO…or, at least, I am.
“We” certainly applies to me!
In the 20s here with flurries expected tomorrow…All we can say is it won’t last long, I guess.
Flurries predicted here too. Hasn’t gotten above 27 yet and this is the heat of the day
I’m gonna barf in my mouth a little bit . . .
On AJ Eng PJ Crowley just says: “We don’t know who was behind the violence . . . but we call on the government to investigate . . . ”
Does any Pup NOT believe that this crackdown was approved by USA?
In SUPPORT of Mub? DESPITE the bs WH/State rhetoric?
I mean, why DID the Egyptian military LET the thugs thru checkpoints, and then stand by and LET the violence take place?
My thought: They WERE told if they didn’t get on board with Mub, they WOULD be cut off money wise by USA . . . .
US HAS threatened to pull money support, only not in favor of protesters, in favor of Mubbie N Thugs.
Thoughts Pups? There’s just some stuff that don’t add up here yet . . . n I don’t trust USA one iota, regardless of any WH/State Rhetoric . . .
Martinis all around.
It’s just that kind of day.
I don’t trust the US AT ALL either and it’s certainly not beyond the realm of possibility but it’s purely speculative right now to think that Obama or the US is behind the pro Mubarak pantomime “protesters”. I think we need to be careful of hurling accusations that aren’t especially helpful and may not even be true. Just my .02 as requested. :)
RevBev,
She was from Pennsylvania, I thought they had their fair share of snow too.
We are in N. Illinois and I expect it, I just do not like it and with our kids it is difficult to move to a warmer climate or miss seeing them and the grandchildren. My wife would tell me “You go if you like, but I am staying here” so I know where I rank in the order of things.
Then I guess he has to go as well – since the pre-dems are not going to leave. What is the VP going to do – render a few million people and torture them all?
I am sure he would for a necklace from the pharoah – but its not possible.
The crowd ripped a good number of those camel and horse thugs to the ground. Unless they unleash military they are just sacraficing some paid crumbsnatchers who will fight to buy them time to shred.
What I can’t stand is allowing people on rooftop to throw moltov cocktails on peoples head. To run journalists out of the area so they could kill some of the peaceful protestors.
Burning oil of death being throw on peacful protestoers. Moo-Barak said in his speech his “PRIORITY” was dealing with the “bad” protestors (he called them looters, etc – but everyone includding AllBark Obama knew what he meant).
Yeah, I think she was just not expecting the cold here. If she had been here this summer, probably shocked by the contrast….Now she will see how fast it can change..;)
eCAHN,
I am ready!!! I should warn you I have never had a martini, but one of our daughters prefers that type of beverage.
and peoples heads are made of hair and flesh.
Sliding a Bombay Safire martini, dry, up, with olives (one pimento stuffed, one stuffed with jalopena) down the bar to you.
It’s an acquired taste & even when you acquire it, it is a small sip drink. So one lasts a long time, and gives just the right amount of buzz.
If he kills and maims peaceful protestors with US tanks, guns, tear gas, helicopters, etc – then it is not beyond US influence.
And pulling or re-directing aid in that country would get the job done.
The heads of the Egypt MIC will be happy to sell him out to keep their part of the gravey/economy going.
He wasn’t trying to minimize the danger of molotovs to people. He was being interviewed about his area of responsibility, which is the museum. And I think I made the point about how dangerous the molotovs are in another, more general comment.
If I recall correctly, didn’t many foreign banks move to freeze the Tunisian’s dictator’s accounts after he fled? Any chance fear of this happening to his millions is helping fuel Mubarack’s determination to stay? Or would he count on the US keeping his money safe so he won’t blow the whistle on our rendition/torture secrets?
YES, like a pharoah he will be happy to be buried with his precious treasures.
He needs his golden crowns more in heaven than 80 million people needs jobs and food on this earth.
I saw much of that, and I agree that there has to be much focus on differnt topics.
I just can’t get over how throwing these on innocent people’s heads from the tops of building (where military helicoptors could stop these thugs) is not being screamed in the streets and halls of power.
I agree that Mubarack should step the fuck away from the museum – likely lots of elites with private armies waiting to steal that shit.
ahhhhh
don’t mind if I do — Cheers!
woke up without power, obviously it’s back now but we’re so iced over, wasn’t sure when/if it would be restored. Felt a bit helpless…
I agree pulling or redirecting aid to Egypt could and probably should be done in order to gain compliance however, foreign aid isn’t like water or natural gas. You can’t just turn off a spigot and the flow stops and they are suddenly screwed. Cutting off money now probably wouldn’t even be felt for months.
I didn’t pick that up. Not challenging it; asking out of ignorance. Do you remember where you saw it?
My general model for dictators’ ill-gotten gains is that they are all safely ensconced in banking secrecy locations, like Cayman’s. So I’d be very interesting on find out if that is not so.
if only!
another option with some of these toppling dictators and rich – they signed mercentile deals with other countries, that smart power players may be able to negate (and possibly steal the money electronically from the dictator).
So – no that oil/land/mineral deal is not valid, and no we can’t find the dear ex-leaders money either.
Don’t identify as a “pup” so maybe only “pup” comments count, but no, I don’t believe the US is behind the “crackdown”.
Agreed, but I would rather have 1 billion dollars in 6 months – than 0 dollars in 6 months.
People typically know who is buttering their bread.
You got that right.
In Iraq, in retrospect, the museum and the archeological sites that U.S. experts warned the USG about protecting, prolly were given road maps for the MOTUs.
Just my thoughts, something just don’t add up here . . .*G*
AJ just now speaking with someone in DC . . . . moving the Beltway meme further to discuss USA/State all got punked on the Pro Mub backlash today . . . interesting, blaming Mub for it all. Disavowing being IN on it all, in the process . . . in a subtle way.
Either it’s true and US got punked on this one, or, it’s in on it . . . the debte rages!
*G*
Sliding another in your direction. Enjoy.
On edit: We are now in the freezing rain part of the storm that you got yesterday. Supposed to be light; most of it supposed to be north. So I’m keeping my fingers crossed. Glad your electricity is back on.
I just think their bubble is entirely opaque from the inside. They can’t add two and two without a 900 page report on why it may or may not add up to four.
Good, hope he is now unable to harm others.
‘K . . . my personal jury is still out on that . . . I just can’t account for why the army has NOT taken a full stand one way or another . . .
I also can’t figger out why Mub had his people charge the protesters, attack them and continue to oppose them violently . . . or why US influence (assuming we HAVE any, n that’s an issue to debate, also) couldn’t contain that violent action.
A simple Occum’s Razor might say that Mub is acting alone and he’s nucking futz to do what he did . . . I’m not sure of that, either . . .
I guess time will tell . . .
crossing fingers for ya
And the Occum’s razor solution is why I’m not yet ready to believe any of this has been orchestrated form the outside.
While I’ve read of many State Department/US fuckups over the decades, and even lived the one in SE Asia as a child (Vietnam, Laos, Thailand) it’s jolting to believe that State/WH were (edited from ‘behind’) caught unawares by Mub’s violent actions today . . . I guess I SHOULDN’T be surprised it’s as simple as bungling on part of US/State . . . given the history and evidence at hand of past screw up’s.
*G*
I dig that . . . ;-)
eCAHN –
Used teh googler-thingy and found numerous references. Seems the Swiss banks have seized Ali’s accounts, as have the Tunisians. Quote from the second story linked says French under pressure to do so as well. (Note: original story is from the Daily Telegraph but I found it under links for Vancouver Sun, Montreal Gazette, etc.)
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7945240-tunisia-and-switzerland-freezes-accounts-of-ousted-dictator-ben-ali
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Threat+fortune+Tunisia+dictator/4131141/story.html
Threat to fortune of Tunisia’s dictator
By Damien McElroy, The Daily Telegraph
[snip]
The French government is under pressure to seize property held by the Tunisian first family including apartments in Paris, and villas on the Riviera.
[snip]
I don’t think they are that stupid, that would be emperor has not cloths level thinking.
They could be that greedy however, and they like to play stupid to cover their tracks.
I do hear what you are saying – the military could have stopped it pretty easily.
Check points, more teargas on the thug side, or strafe the moltov throwers on rooftops a few times.
Though Egypt MIC could have played USA – and helped set this up so they could pick a different prez than what they had agreed on.
If Mubarak is not long for this world he could even be in on it.
Seems more complicated that needed though.
I think dictator’s are just greedy and always a few moments from being toppled – and always realizing they have to be in full control to stop being toppled. He is likely pushing to stay – because that is what he had been doing for 30 years and he does not know anything else.
Thanks.
I thought it might be the Swiss, who as keepers of dictators’ secruds have become quite unreliable these days. I woulda thunk dictators would have been up to my suspicions & moved away from Switzerland. But I’ve been wrong about that way of thinking many times before.
Tunisia was, of course, a French colony, back in the day. So not surprising that there is a strong French connection, esp property. Hard to rip those century+ old colonial ties.
I got me a whole slew of firewood & lotsa fireplaces. Just damned tired of the stuff. But thanks. Don’t keep your fingers crossed while sipping from that martini glass. *g*
Hey Margaret, you got the AJ Eng live feed up, right?
I have the shot of the protesters at top of screen, Mub’s people at bottom of screen (maybe on or near a bridge?).
Two vehicles afire (flames dying) and another vehicle inbetween.
So, this is the OUTSKIRTS of Tahiri Square, isn’t it? One of the approaches INTO the square?
Do I have this right?
The MIC in question is US. No doubt, they are leaning on some preferred members of Congress using the intermediation of Tony Podesta.
It is helpful to remember how security is set up in Egypt. The thugs are most likely controlled by the Interior Department. The military is totally separate, and even the particular generals who control which part of the military matter politically (Mubarak is air force, remember). The last piece is the Presidential Guard, who protects Mubarak and the Presidential Palace (and other national buildings); they are the most loyal to the regime.
Cutting military aid hurts the general whose branch is receiving most of the aid — and also US military contractors like Lockheed, Boeing and lesser companies (Who made the tear gas that made in USA?” There is a risk of cutting aid to the general who might tell Mubarak, “It’s time to go.”
Ok.
AJ reporter on air (audio) just confirmed what I’m seeing . . . 4 dead, one by gunshot, sorta recent in past hour . . . people on bridge are Mub Paid Operators.
Only action now is in front of museum . . Tahiri Sq is rather quiet.
Military on hand but passive for the most part (one troop carrier fired into the air earlier, allegedly to keep Mub’s people away).
Military obviously has their orders to be passive (Larue wonders WHOSE orders) . . .
Good update there . . . AJ Eng Live Linky
I am asking the same question who is giving orders to the Egyptian Military?
it is clearly not Mubarak
Uh, why NOT Mub?
Who do YOU think is giving orders for army to be passive in face of Mub Thugs attacking the protesters?
I don’t think State was taken off guard or surprised by this at all. I think Obama is a narcissist and actually believes that if he says “concern” over and over again that people will be able to hear his Messianic words. It is no different than his “common ground” rhetoric in domestic policy and his narcism to think that the GOP was going to roll over and expose their bellies.
Fortunately for the Egyptian people, they do not hang on his every word, didn’t before this, not during it, and won’t afterward. And, though I will get shit for it from some “pups”, I am glad Hillary Clinton in particular is in State right now in regard to being someone that knows that “the skies will not open and celestial choirs come down” because he has spoken.
Now do I think State is in on something. Yes I do. This whole tweeter/social networking revolution that she has been speaking about from day one, and State holding seminars about it around the globe, is starting to come to fruition in the ME. Jordan is making changes in their government even before those tweets and facebook pages have started going full on viral.
I suspect Latin America will be next as they have had many of the seminars there. (Wikileaks will hopefully share more about this.) I think this “tweeter revolution” from State is a softer form of coups. And as I said the other day around here, I don’t know if this is a good or bad thing. My jury on what has normally been my complete distrust of our government’s need for corporatist speed is really up in the air at this moment.
Except for knowing that we are always in it for “American interest” no matter the methodology we employ in getting there.
I find it difficult to fathom any belief that US/State would forment soft coups thru twitter or any social media to spread democracy . . . . it’s just that the history of those entities to do coups (soft or not) proves they are to install selected puppets, too often despots, criminals and dictators who rule by fear and suppression.
History tells us this.
I hardly doubt that US/State/CIA has changed their ways suddenly.
Mubarak people probably wanted the military step up days a go,
(also early report of Military Tank COmmander trying to commit suicide, and had to be stop by other soldiers, there is a clear break down in command)
the Military Leaders probably fear being charge with war crimes, to many cameras for them to attack, and plus what is the up side of fighting for Mubarak?
the situation is so volatile in Egypt, who knows who is in charge.
Mubarak new VP is an agent of the USA, reports say he help the CIA with rendition.
Egypt like most oppress Arab Nations prop up by the USG is full of poor people, and a lot of these poor people serve in the military and probably have a direct connection to the ARAB street
also everyone is completely ignoring the religious leaders, after prayers all the big marches begin
Israel and the USA are toxic,
at the end of the day, the military personnel of Egypt grew up hating Israel and the USA
USA foreign policy in the MID-East is in shambles, because of Iraq, and Afghan
I agree with you!
the USG does not like what is happening in Egypt
reports are all over the place saying that USA intel and Israel intel did not see this coming. and the USG actions clearly support this fact.
the Neo-Cons made a huge mistake, giving Iraq to Iran was insane
USA citizens must understand that you have Shia and Sunni Arabs
and they view the world differently
plus the USG ignored the ARAB STREET
reports say that the kids started the Egyptian revolution
this may be a war between the OLD and YOUNG
Now the Obama administration will pressure the Senate to move forward quickly with the “Internet Kill Switch.” Can’t have this sort of thing happening in the new bipartisan, corporate friendly America.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/01/kill-switch-legislation/
I was pretty much saying the same thing as you just did with that quote. Do I think these people are going to get some “democracy”. Yes I do. Recent history tells us that just the “hope” of some “democracy” in the US has been enough for “liberals” to completely and utterly loose their bearings and start thinking stuff like, “Well maybe it is okay to privatize social security or raise the retirement age, after all we are young.” Fulfilling some carrots of “democracy” for a younger generation can go a long way in changing ideologies as we all know. Egypt will probably get a version of Obama. Only a Democrat could have sold this shit to “liberals” and get away with it.
Interesting that as of the top of the hour or so, AJ Eng Live is showing only older footage of the bridge confrontation while audio feed/persons are saying there’s a recent confrontation there . . . stuff escalated for half hour, but no live footage from the AJ camera that was live for most of my afternoon . . .
Wonder wassup with THAT! No explanation as to what happened to the live cam . . .
Ok, thanks for the clarity, thought you were saying you believed that US was acting honorably WRT social media and domestic/international empire building.
We agree!
*G*
Where we differ is that I do not think these social media coups install “dictators who rule by fear and suppression” though. I think what will end up getting “installed” are “leaders” like Obama who can win and rule by hope. The formula worked here. Though I think the Egyptian people are smarter than we are. They don’t seem to buy hope. They seem to be going straight for the change at this point. I hope they can hang on to that after all the dust settles.
Yes to your last sentence . . . I’m gonna move on to other threads . . . nice chattin with you and all the others up above . . .