Responding to the Obama Administration’s apparent decision to cut Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP) funding, Larry Mishel of the Economic Policy Institute says that progressives “are losing the argument at a higher level” about the budget in general, putting all programs and services at risk.
The fundamental problem, Mishel says, is a spending freeze on the discretionary non-security budget, while calling for certain investments within that budget, and giving up on moving the needle on taxes to any degree. “Spending has to be maintained as a share of GDP just to keep up these programs,” Mishel said, noting that inflation, wage increases and population growth all enter into that equation. “If you freeze spending, the population and economy has grown, that’s a net cut.” Mishel surmises that Obama is set to shrink the discretionary budget, through this freeze, by 32% over the next 9 years.
“If you want to increase spending in some areas, it has to come out of other areas,” Mishel continued. “The specifics are going to make people angry. But what I don’t think progressives understand, they’re not going to fare well on their issue because they’re being beat at a higher level.” Like I said, it’s a simple math equation. Budget reductions will have to come from somewhere, especially combined with an unwillingness to increase taxes.
Mishel takes issue with the Obama Administration’s messaging on the subject, being practically boastful about budget cuts. “He’s bragging to the Chamber of Congress about his discretionary budget being at the lowest level since Eisenhower. This is not the country we want to live in. It’s awful.” He related the Administration’s plan for investment in certain areas as akin to the “cut and invest” approach of the DLC in the 1990s. “And they never meant invest,” he added.
The entire notion of acknowledging fiscal responsibility before anything else amounts to operating on the ideological turf of the conservative movement, according to Mishel. “You try to pre-empt very awful things by doing awful things,” he said. You can see this in the approach of Congressional Democrats, not arguing about the need for budget cuts, but trying to direct those cuts more appropriately.
“I heard Nancy Pelosi last week, saying that everything they support will have to strengthen the middle class, create jobs and cut the deficit. You cannot merge a Blue Dog message with a progressive message and think it’s consistent,” Mishel said. “Everyone wants to salute being fiscally responsible. They should be saying we’re in a recession, and we’re never going to balance the budget until we get people back to work.” Mishel also highlighted the tax cuts just agreed to on a bipartisan basis. It’s impossible to say that the country cannot afford, say, LIHEAP funding, Mishel reasons, when the country just gave away hundreds of billions in tax cuts for the rich and lowering the estate tax. “They should have a graph, money from LIHEAP versus money from the estate tax deal. How do you say we can’t afford it?”
As to how to best hold off the actual cuts to these kind of programs, Mishel had this to say, “If people don’t get angry we’re going to get more of it.”




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EvilDrPuma: Obama is awful.
Well, I am angry about the whole thing… all of the focus on being fiscally conservative. It’s all just spreadsheet economics, complete utilitarian equations. A lot of BS!
We have a hard time affording oil, too, but we manage to get by… mostly by keeping the thermostat in the 50s. I’d like to see some of these financial elites have to do something like that, just so they can afford to buy oil for their furnaces.
getting a clue might help too.
mishel doesn’t understand “fiscal responsibility” — it’s gold standard thinking. completely wrong headed economic thinking for post 1973 usa.
deficit doves like mishel, who i have no doubt wants to do the right thing, but is conceding to the neoliberal premises about federal budgets, are just as big a problem — maybe even bigger — than the conservatives because progressives listen to him and then think they know what fiscal responsibility is. but they don’t. (hint to mishel: federal budgets are not like household budgets).
i beg all who read this comment. please, please take advantage of last year’s Fiscal Sustainability Teach-In and Counter Conference. all the conference materials (video, audio, transcripts, presentations) are online. it took considerable effort and expense to make this info available. please take advantage of it.
here are two bits from l. randall wray’s recent post at creditwritedowns.com: Government Deficits Translate into Surpluses for the Non-Government Sector
mishel says, “Everyone wants to salute being fiscally responsible.” well, they wouldn’t if they understood even the basics of a balance sheet recession.
Selise — Glad you’re back posting again. Stay warm!
You’ve completely misunderstood what Mishel was saying in this case. He was referring to OTHER people, the Democrats speaking in this debate, not himself.
Last summer they cut food stamps. this winter they want to cut LIEAP. but the bankers are doing great. the stock market is up. profits are climbing. no jobs, so we have a new concept “jobless recovery”. I am so disgusted with this president and the congress that I can’t stand it. No wonder Mubarak is their friend – he is just one of them.
None of these cuts would be necessary if they had not renewed the “tax cuts”. The amounts saved by LIEAP and food stamp cuts are minuscule and unnecessary. These cuts are purely symbolic to make a point: we will sacrifice people to money.
It is clear that the people who need help are of no value. Only the rich have value. At least we know now where they stand.
you quoted mishel:
i quoted wray:
i’m claiming that mishel is WRONG and wray is CORRECT about the fed gov deficit and therefore about what it means to be fiscally responsible. AND i’m claiming that until we wrap our heads around that and why wray is correct and mishel is wrong, progressives will continue to advance arguments for full employment that are built on sand.
in the spirit of inquiry, furthering our understanding and basic curiosity… let’s have an open debate on the macroeconomics of fed budget deficits, spending and taxes. please? i hate the point scoring thing, i’ve only resorted to it because asking didn’t work, begging didn’t work and i was trying to get some response. let’s go back to trying to both understand and explain — no attempts at point scoring. are you game? i bet both of us, as well as others, would learn something useful.
howdy BP! thank you very much for the welcome back.
So all I’m getting is that Obama is back to playing eleventy seven dimensional chess and strategically surrendering in order to actually win.
Bullshit.
I saw this:
(from “20 Facts That Will Make You Really Mad If You Stop And Think About Them For A While,” Feb. 10, 2011)
I think Obama and Congress are seriously full of it as I don’t see them applying any austerity measures to themselves plus no structural change.
…“If people don’t get angry we’re going to get more of it.”…
We need to ‘Walk Like an Egyptian’…! *gah*
While doing exactly the opposite for rich people.
Dayam, It’s been far too long, Ma Cheri…! *g*
Great to “see” you, selise.
Thank you, in advance, for what you’ve provided at this comment.
You are absoluely correct about too many giving in, without qualm or question, to the neoliberal crapola …
DW
Seriously, we need to take it to the streets and shut down Washington DC with a million people and not leave until Obama, every member of Congress, and all 9 Supreme Court justices resign. This is bullshit.
Que todos se vayan!
(They all must go)
Hope someone has the video:
(from “‘War criminal!’: Ron Paul backers crash Cheney-Rumsfeld reunion,” RawStory.Com, Feb. 10, 201)
the only way to balance the fed budget (given that the usa dollar is the world’s major reserve currency) is for the private sector to dis-save (that means the private sector going further into debt and increasing financial instability).
without an expansion of private sector credit, we’d better get used to fed budget deficit spending — arguing about balancing it at all is major distraction from our REAL problems.
bright. shiny. object.
howdy!
In the 50′s? Geez.
You know how messed up that is? Back in the 1700′s in Moscow and St. Petersburg, they were able to keep their rooms and houses in the 70′s during winter. And, to squeak by, you are having to keep yours in the 50′s?
I’m so angry and beyond frustrated with the state of everything. I can’t believe we’ve got legislation to allow pregnant women to die, that we’re giving money to million and billionaires instead of putting people to work, etc. It just sickens me. Remember that woman back in the “town halls” for health care who was crying and saying “I want my America back”? (Only the one she meant was some conservative, white, Christian nirvana) Well, I want mine, too. Except I’ve come to believe that the America I was told about as a school kid never existed. It’s certainly nothing I’m proud of any more.
although the concepts are straight forward, it’s so very different from the current neoliberal paradigm that it’s like putting on glasses that flip the world upside down. takes getting used to. (i think wray said one of his students described it this way)
Our Deficit problems are not OUR problems. The talking heads want you thinking it is the citizens at the core, but it’s not. As Selise said, that money is reaping rewards in certain sectors and the cuts that need to be made are not in the areas that support the citizens.
Another major problem I see is that the DC heads and Fed are treating the current situation as a Recession. I referred to W. Black and others about this and the fact that we are actually in a Depression, while the PTB are not moving the country out of it due to not instilling the correct models to do so.
*heh* A little of Teddy Roosevelt’s ‘trust busting’ mixed with his cousin’s New Deal and Marshall Plan would do us a world of good…! ;-)
¡Que se vayan todos!
i wish!
well, i’ll have to stop back here later… hope to see some response from dday on my debate proposal. i think it could be fun!
“i hate the point scoring thing, i’ve only resorted to it because–”
OK, we’re done…
They should have a LOT of graphs, like, say, LIHEAP [or pick any other decent program] vs.
** the cost of maintaining the gigantic, useless embassy in Iraq
** the cost of [pick 17 or so] individual weapon systems
** the cost, per day, per week, per month, of the foolish wars
** the cost of maintaining troops overseas
Hell, the list can go on and on, and even include Valerie Bertanelli’s ass [h/t to Matt Taibbi].
Reading Bill Mitchell at this point, selise … great stuff … honest economics, great sense of humour and spot-on grasp …
Thanks, again.
DW
Tangential– The following effort by RootsAction.Org that David Swanson covers today will impact the banksters:
John Hightower’s statement:
You can go to RootsAction.Org and sign the statement. If you pass it on, it can go viral.
That is a debate I shall not miss, selise!
DDay?
;~DW
FWIW, accounting identities don’t tell one ANYTHING about how to reduce the deficit or create jobs — in the short run or the long run. Adherence to and glorification of accounting identities leads to ludicrous economic policies.
I really don’t know what the fuck this disagreement is about.
Don’t forget they are likely heating or cooling their second or third home so it is all comfy for their weekend visit.
Funny FDR fought WW2 and won running a deficit of course he had he good sense to tax the rich and regulate the economy. After FDR America never had it better.
But Obama seems to think that Herbert Hoover had the right idea.
FAR OUT!!!
and just because i think everyone should be…. here’s the link to his blog:
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/
and here’s the link to his debriefing 101 posts (great place to start):
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?cat=11
prior to fdl, david dayen posted as dday at digby’s. so that’s still how i think of him.
if there is a debate, i’m going to ask for some serious help — and i hope dday does too — might as well get as many experts as possible to hash this out and help us all clarify the perspectives, positions, etc.
You’re misinterpreting Mitchell if you think he disagrees with Mishel.
If Obama was serious about cutting spending he would end both wars its not like he has a chance of winning them. As Egypt shows the more we back dictators the worse the middle east gets.
But Obama seems to think the NeoCons are foreign policy geniuses.
***Mod Note: Racist epithets ARE NOT TOLERATED at FireDogLake.***
“2+2 = 4″ doesn’t tell us how to create jobs either. but if we don’t get the addition right, we’re probably going to get some other stuff wrong too. :)
Obama has a program to stem outsourcing. Instead of jobs going to Chinese workers in China, China will be allowed to establish companies in the U S where they will primarily hire Chinese workers. This is taking place in Free Trade Zones (Regional Centers). The last I checked there were 257 of them. Most of this is being done through the EB5 visa program.
Actually, I believe this was advanced during the Clinton Administration. It’s roots go back to the mid 30s.
Check out what is currently going on in Idaho. Governor Otter has been actively seeking Chinese investment in his state and he is not the only Governor doing so.
http://eb5visanews.com/eb5-visa-investment-idaho-gold/
Over the past 4-5 years I have witnessed first-hand how Chinese investment has negatively affected countries throughout the Caribbean. Chinese workers displace the natives. Chinese companies come in and drive the locals out of business.
So, when Obama says he is creating new jobs, he is. They just aren’t for American citizens.
http://www.eb5-visa.net/
http://eb5visanews.com/china-daily-story-potential-fraud-chinese-eb5-visa-investors-unscrupulous-chinese-agents/
http://eb5visanews.com/southern-california-counties-encouraging-eb-5-visa-program-among-other-foreign-investment-initiatives/
***Mod Note: The moderators have acted upon the noted comment.***
Why should anyone be surprised? Back in Obama’s home district of Chicago ask the poor, low income residents who were frozen in their apartments, asking for help and received none. Why? Because those same slumlords were his big contributors. What’s a few more low income voters.
Sounds to me like the in-shore sweatshops like I saw at AT&T with Indian workers. And, just take a guess what I think of that. :-Z
LOL. Exactly Margaret. Remember, Obama is the smartest guy in the room. We just can’t see the good things he’s bringing to life. Ya know like his GE appointment.
The accounting identity that supply must equal demand is at the heart of the right wing refusal to accept that a lack of demand is the problem we now face — and that we should increase government spending.
BOTH Mitchell and Mishel understand that insufficient aggregate demand is the problem and that government spending needs to increase to restore jobs, grow the economy, and reduce the deficit.
BOTH reject Obama’s austerity bullshit.
As much as I would love to see a primary challenge to Obama, it probably won’t happen. And even should a challenge materialize, it won’t derail him from the Democratic Party’s nomination. (Boy, THAT’S gonna be one limp and boring convention, eh?)
But it would be great to see protests of his presidency, calling him out for his lies and his sell-outs. I mean, just protest! Demand he return his Nobel Peace Prize. Ask him NOT to run for reelection. Please, please don’t run Barack Obama! We are so not into you.
Nothing will change of course, but it might be cathartic to let the SOB know how much he’s detested. He is too much a narcissist to be embarrassed, I know. Cripes, four more years of crap after the general election 2012…it’s already so depressing.
well, i haven’t asked bill mitchell, and if i’m wrong i’d like to be corrected (so i might ask if you think it worthwhile)…. but i’m pretty sure mitchell would disagree with the kinds of things mishel has been writing. for example, this :
or this (my emphasis):
are you claiming mitchell agrees with mishel that a fed deficit of 6% of gdp is unsustainable?
It’s interesting you bring up AT&T. I had a tech at my home about 3 years ago. He goes back many years being employed by BellSouth. I told him about several experiences I had had with tech support in India. He responded that AT&T has lost so many customers and logged so many complaints, they were moving jobs back to the U S.
Of course, if Bill Gates had his way, those jobs in the U S would go to visa holders from India.
Glenn Ford…racist:
The president’s groveling performance at the Chamber shows him, once again, to be a corporate facilitator who doesn’t even bother to polish up his old con game. All he now offers to the Democratic Party’s “base” is the “statistical lie” that a paltry 36,000 net increase in jobs can somehow cut the jobless rate from 9.4 to 9.0 percent.
And, oh yes, as Obama told a Black reporter after just 100 days in office, “a rising tide lifts all boats.” Twenty-two months later, nearly everyone except his Chamber of Commerce crowd is sinking or has sunk
no disagreement from me there.
(only disagreement is with the first part of your comment)
Me too.
me three.
Interestingly, creating a WPA/CCC level green energy program nationwide program would be in our best interest…
WikiLeaks cables: Saudi Arabia cannot pump enough oil to keep a lid on prices
US diplomat convinced by Saudi expert that reserves of world’s biggest oil exporter have been overstated by nearly 40%
Peak Oil time…!
Peak oil: We are asleep at the wheel…
Funny how EW points out today the sheer stupidity of a prominent intel firm
I’d just posted about Clapper’s testimony to the House Intelligence Committee today on Egypt… ‘We Are Not Clairvoyant’
It gives a whole new meaning to Balkanization.
They won’t make them permanent employees either. This has been going on for more than 10 years. Now it sounds like they want to go large scale with colonies of workers like the 1800s railroad building days with Chinese workers. This is like something out of Tombstone.
To be truly moral today you have to be ‘un-American.’ And doesn’t that set up the argument?
They don’t care if we get angry as long as we point the finger at each other, the powerless, which is working quite nicely for them.
Welcome to the Brave New World of getting rid of “the lesser people” and “the useless eaters” and Global One World Fascist Government.
The signs are there for all to see.
You probably saw that Max Keiser is all over that. He just did a segment on that topic (either E119 or E120).
thanks for the links!
My guess — and it’s only a guess — is that Mitchell and Mishel agree on most of this stuff. I would guess also that one of the reasons Mitchell finds the deficit climbing to 6% of GDP is out-of-control health care costs.
But, maybe I’m wrong. It’s happened before.
bingo!
i don’t think the problem is chinese workers or any other workers… it’s our own gov that needs to provide the demand (as econobuzz wrote above) and/or lower taxes. it’s not like we don’t have things that need doing: a new energy infrastructure, repairing environmental damage, r&d, etc, etc. there’s millions of unemployed waiting to be put to work on these and other projects. what a waste of human energy and talent — the unemployed need jobs and he employed would benefit from these public goods.
I refer to David as DDay as well, selise, the question behind DDay was addressed to him and whether he might, to all our benefits, engage in such debate.
I am hoping that he will agree to the value and worth of such a debate.
;~DW
Awesome…! Rachel had Juan Cole on…! ;-)
Get angry, get in the street. I wish I could import some Egyptian activists to get us up off our asses.
me too. lots of times :)
that’s why i like the back and forth and appreciate being challenged. makes me think and learn. seriously, thanks.
…..
i should also say that quoting mishel is, imo, far far better than last week’s post quoting jeffrey sachs (which seriously freaked me out).
ah, gotcha now. thanks for the correction.
Concisely well said, selise.
Would that those words would appear on TV, and ‘puter screens throughout the land … and on walls and utility poles where ever people pass by.
A couple of months of that and people would be a whole lot more clued in to the actual truth of things …
DW
… i don’t think there was anything in TCU’s now deleted comment @68 that violated site rules — or have the rules changed since i’ve been gone?
I’ve been bouncing back and forth between this post and the link selise provide @ 3, so I missed what you said, Things. But now, I’m curious as hell … since I know you to be fair-minded, unprejudiced, understanding, and principled in your discourse.
Just so ya know.
DW
Absolutely, I have been a fan of Max for a long time. He may be “on the edge”, but he is spot on, time and time again.
He is so proliferate on his website, I have a hard time keeping up. Then there’s Denninger and Durden. All in all, it’s a good thing I retired in ’07. Otherwise, I’d never have the time. Still, as I said in an earlier post, I keep wrapping my head in duct tape.
What didn’t you like about Sachs remarks?
You always seem to get snippy when I’m on a thread. It doesn’t seem to matter what I say just what did I do to offend you?
*** ModNote: While we encourage rigorous conversation, personal insults are discouraged***
Gee, where did selise’s comment about a comment go?
Strange things here, tonight.
DW
thanks! i hope you find it useful. commenters here at fdl (and elsewhere) donated $$ to make it possible.
When the Authoritarians start joining your side corruption and cronyism follows and dreams of change start to die.
see my comment @3
I must have missed quite a lot, Things, but why the rancor toward Kelly?
Guess I’ve been away from FDL for so long that changes in civility and patience have passed me by.
DW
strange days…
anyhoo, i’m off… good night to all….
I’ll have to get back to you with details on this. I recently heard the story of a group of Chinese workers who were hired to dig a trench. It was a massive project. The workers were told they would not be paid until the project was completed for fear they might leave early. When the project was completed the Chinese workers disappeared (were disappeared?).
As I recall, the setting was in the 1800s.
I find it more than useful, an education is always more than “useful”, an education is liberation and enlightenment.
Appreciation to all who made this possible, and especially to you, selise.
DW
Guy has been snippy a bunch toward me every chance he gets. he reminds me of how my Mom acted toward my Dad during the divorce it didn’t matter what my Dad said my Mom would just start a fight because she wanted too.
Whats confusing is I normally don’t talk much to Kelly why was I deemed special?
@72 TCU
What I said was “You could have left off at Republican. Why you had to include ‘the Moderator deleted term’ only you can answer.”
To Delete and Replace my comment was a mistake on the Moderators part in my opinion, as the Moderator should and must confirm what I actually said.
You can mischaracterize that all you want, into me being an authoritarian or whatever. But it’s not true.
Have you read The Underground History of American Education?
http://www.amazon.com/Underground-History-American-Education-Investigation/dp/0945700040/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297393092&sr=1-4
Ah, good night, selise.
Thank you for the better world you are helping all of us bring into being.
DW
These are awesome folks. Also those at Agonist.Org and IanWelsh.Net.
~~~ModNote: Arguing about the argument gets us nowhere. Try circling back to the topic, which is Mishel: Obama Trying to “Pre-empt Very Awful Things By Doing Awful Things”. Thanks.~~~
Got to agree. Either he knows a lot more than we do, which is doubtful, or he is awful. It’s a crap shoot.
Randall Wray is dead right. I used to teach this stuff every year in my class, and I learned it at the knee of the master, James Tobin.
I haven’t, gigi3, but being somewhat familiar with Gatto, I shall do so when I’ve time.
Thank you for the suggestion.
I note that, @ 70, you say you retired in ’07, if it is not too inquisitive of me, might I ask what you retired from?
DW
I don’t see where what Randall Wray is saying is all that different from what Mitchell, Mishel, or Sachs is saying. I think the confusion here is that some folks may be reading passages that address different questions and issues, and are drawing conclusions that they are on different sides of the basic issues..
Obama has determined, and I think correctly, that he will win the next election in the Republican suburbs (read Winnetka, IL). The Ike-like Thugs believe this crap, and since the alternative is unthinkable, enough Dems will go along with him that he will defeat whatever Palin-type the real Thugs will come up with in 2012, unless, as I wager, he will also be running on the Republican line as a unity candidate.
In the short run we, by which I mean the Left, are basically fucked, though not as fucked as the workers and poor people who are going to bear the cost of this strategy. It seems to me that we should follow Norske’s advice. Work at the local level and be patient. And take the gains in the stock market while they are coming in, because God knows the banksters are going to take them away from thus come what may if we don’t.
Fair enough. The identities are of course a matter of definition. If we defined the aggregates differently, we would come up with different results (subject to maintaining the standard balance sheet equalities). I was thinking of Tobin’s essay, ‘Deficit, Deficit, who’s Got the Deficit’, which simply states the identity that every surplus has got to have a deficit someplace to balance it. If households and firms on net save, either the external balance needs an excess of exports over imports or the government has to be in deficit.
The level of economic ignorance in Congress is tragic. I remember 30 years ago talking about this with Paul Krugman, who observed that even Ricardo is far too much for these bozos.
You mean to say that the “Unseen Hand” knows all about this crap and It isn’t slapping bankers around who claim to be doing His (one assumes capital letters apply to all portions of the almighty) “work”?
Why Knut, you’re gonna disillusion lil’ ol’ me.
;~DW
The “economic ignorance” of Congress is deliberate … and lucrative.
The “ignorance” extends well beyond economics …
When a “person’s” well-being and “income” depends upon their NOT knowing certain things, they may be depended upon to not know those certain things.
DW
The big issue here IMHO is whether the deficit can be reduced by cutting spending — or by a spending freeze. Or, conversely, that aggregate demand must be increased through increased government spending to increase employment, GDP, and thus reduce the deficit.
The economists referred to above — I think — all believe that the latter is true and to do the former is suicide. Obama has caved to the suicidal argument that the way to reduce the deficit is to cut spending.
Had anyone given this as an answer to a recession in my Econ courses, they would have received an F. Tobin’s also.
i think wray and mitchell are on the same page — they are even writing a macro textbook together. mishel i think not so much and sachs even less so. but that’s just my read.
I think you’re right. I had an exchange with Sachs — who is a really nice guy btw — about a criticism he made of Krugman. I think Sachs weighs the short term and long term differently than do the others. I think he is more interested in getting “the fiscal house in order” than he is in taking steps to restore economic growth. But he did back off when challenged and admit that government spending is needed to increase in the short run.
wow, thanks. tobin? that is awesome. i’m a complete neophyte on this stuff (macro). just decided a couple of years ago (basically when the shit really hit the fan in sept 2008) that i should try to see if i could find anything that made sense to me. so far wray, mitchell, galbraith and a few more heterodox economists have been the ones i find the most helpful…. but what do i know? only that i have lots of reading to do…
(btw, wray was minsky’s phd student).
One imagines that Obama will award himself at least a B-plus, for his astute grasp of “real-world” economics, econobuzz.
Appreciate your comments AND perspective. Always.
DW
Not at all. I spent 35+ year in residential mortgage banking. My employment background prior to that was in accounting. My first job in mortgage banking was in 1971 in corporate accounting (as opposed to servicing accounting).
From 1971 to 1987 I was employed in retail mortgage. lending. In late 1987 I entered the arena of wholesale lending. I had first-hand contact with people you have heard of: Angelo Mozzilo & Lew Ranieri.
I can give you details. This forum does not lend itself to that.
Perhaps Rayne can put us in touch with one another for further discussion.
tobin, sachs and krugman? holy cow am i outclassed by you and knut!
was just checking in to see if dday had responded to my request for a debate (hope you and knut will show up if there is one).
I think a diary at My FDL would be a fine place for you to begin to share your understanding with the rest of us, gigi3, as I’ve no doubt that the depth of your understanding of much of what has gone on, from your rather unique perspective, would be most helpful to many of us. There are a number of folks here who could engage you in serious discussion. I am not among them, but I should play close attention to your views on your understanding of what has and will happen, speculative as those views may or may not be, as well as the dialogues that you and other qualified commenters would develop.
DW
I second that, DW!
Great thread, all around, selise.
And I hope DDay may have the time and opportunity.
And Knut and econobuzz as well.
DW
I will not vote for this man and will not feel the least bit bad when he loses to the honest republican. Pretend dems are not lesser evils in any way.
I will not vote for Obama – I don’t care who the Republicans run – I will not vote for Obama.
Thirty three year Dem voter (or was till this point),
Maybe the best thing in the world is to just let the greed addicts go. Let em take and take. Let the pressure build and the pain get so bad, let us hit rock bottom…and then maybe we will finally have the motivation to have our bloodless revolt, peace style, when nobody has anything to lose anymore. Maybe that is the only way we can turn this paradigm around.
that’s probably JIM hightower
NOT supply and demand. my comments above are about the accounting identities re deficits and surpluses (of financial assets). per wray, “One sector’s deficit equals another’s surplus.”
aside: i don’t how supply must equal demand or that it is accounting identity. if you see this epu’d comment, i’d appreciate more info on what is your meaning. thanks.
dday, hoping for a reply to my comment @8 — both on the mishel quote and on my request for a debate. thanks!